2013-04-07-ss-ra-lins-002jpg-a09a6cb35e71de63

Remember New York’s post-Newtown SAFE Act – passed in the dead of night 20 minutes after introduction and signed by Governor Cuomo inside the statutory three-day waiting period (as an emergency measure)? The act mandated background checks for ammunition purchases. The state’s statists dragged their feet on that bit, claiming they didn’t have the infrastructure for the job. Since when has that stayed the hand of perfidious politicians? Since they were worried about political blowback, that’s when. Now that the Empire State’s civilian disarmament corps have survived the mid-terms, mandatory background checks for ammo purchases are ready to go. Well, after . . .

the hunting season is over (as syracuse.com reports).

Without giving an anticipated start date, a spokeswoman from the state’s Office of Information Technology Services (ITS), said the system will definitely not be in place during this fall’s hunting season.

“That is correct,” said Michelle Germain McDonald, director of public information for the ITS. The regular firearms season for hunting big game (deer and bear) starts Saturday in the Southern Zone.

“ITS is working in tandem with the State Police to endure that the data base will serve as an efficient and effective background check system that minimizes inconveniences to retailers and purchasers, and it will endure that ammunition is not purchased by criminals and the mentally ill,” she said. “This is a complex system that supports many complicated business processes.

“Pursuant to the Safe Act, the system will be considered complete after the Superintendent of State Police certifies that it is operational and that all business processes are functioning as required.”

The wheels of tyranny may grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly fine. Speaking of ammo, New York remains a powder keg. Just sayin’.

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106 COMMENTS

  2. Stock up kids. People in NY need friends in other states to receive deliveries for them at their home. Roadtrip.

    • I’ve read that retailers in PA cities that border NYS have been instructed by the PA Government not to sell anyone from NY ammo to appease Emperor Cuomo. I don’t know how true this is but it sounds like something King Cuomo would do.

      • I don’t see how NY can try to bully its surrounding states into doing that. As an ex-Californian, it was very easy to drive into AZ or NV and buy 30 round mags at any gun store. The store isn’t breaking the law, they are abiding by their state law. It is the purchaser who is breaking the law if they choose to bring those prohibited items back into their draconian state. Maybe the New Yorker is going to PA to shoot at a range there? Does this mean that all New Yorkers are banned from shooting in other states if they are not able to buy ammo anywhere else? If I were a PA gun store owner, I would tell Cuomo to FOAD because I will make any transaction that is legal within my state’s statutes.

        • I can buy ammo in Indiana( a mile away) without using my Illinois FOID card. I imagine there will be plenty of merchants in bordering states of NY who will give the proverbial middle finger to Cuomo and company. Like a lot of Indiana( not all) gun and ammo sellers do to Illinois. Have fun…

      • I’m only 45 minutes from the PA line, and visit family there about every 3/4 weeks. No problems when buying at Wallyworld or any of the small shops. I don’t believe there’s any restrictions or prohibitions on sales to NY residents. Also, availability of ammo and components is much better, with far more reasonable prices.

      • does PA require ID to purchase ammo? Is it a violation of PA state law? Then my response to the state of PA is “go f**k yourself and kiss Cuomo’s a** with someone else’s $”

      • I can believe that our Attorney General would issue such a degree because she is extremely ignorant (or makes ignorant statements about) of PA gun laws ( i.e. Florida Loophole), but as far as I know the legislature has not passed any measures restricting ammo sales. She has authority over concealed carry reciprocity, but as far as ammunition sales I don’t know.

      • How, pray tell, would that be enforced? Does PA require ID in order to purchase ammunition? And under what statute can a PA retailer refuse to sell a legal good to someone from another state?

      • That means they would voluntarily have to “card” everybody who buys ammo. That won’t go over too well with the local PA residents. Those shops would lose all their local business too. More likely, there will be ammo warehouses dotting the NY/PA border.

        That’s if it ever does happen. I live on Long Island. Honestly, I have not heard that this ammo background check provision of the SAFE Act is any closer to reality than it ever has been.

        I could be wrong.

    • Whose side are you on? They’re disarming themselves for the next Civil War (and war with Zhong Guo).

      We got their governor and state houses to do it for free. It didn’t even cost trinkets and beads or $25 worth of sheet music, or cholera laden blankets…

      Third law of nature: If you’re going to give away your a_ _, your a _ _ is mine.

      • NY’ers ought to get out more. NY is a small patch of real estate and they do not speak for the rest of America.

      • NYC does not represent the rest of the state.
        All of the people living outside of that one city have to deal with these laws being shoved down their throats, and I think it’s disrespectful to ignore them.

        • People forget that the first Civil War started with two brothers, sitting on their mom’s couch, talking about each other’s mom.

          The fragility of the whole thing we do together every day is lost on a few people . The lack of understanding appears rampant and out of control the tighter you pack the population.(TERMS, J.M. Thomas R., 2012).

          Then, one day, it’s the opening car wreck scene from “It’s a mad mad world.”

        • NYC is a minute patch of real estate on a small patch of real estate, and the non-NYC’ers ought to get out more too.

        • NYC is a minute patch of real estate on a small patch of real estate, and the non-NYC’ers of NY ought to get out more too.

        • Unfortunately, the NYC metropolitan area population is literally almost the entire population of the state. So yes, while the handful of people outside of NYC oppose these laws, the overwhelming majority of NY’s population does.

        • Pack the rest of the population of the earth on that twelve mile island and it won’t represent another square inch of America. Let that population spill to the triangle patch of its borders, Staten Island, Riker’s Island, the rest o’ the boroughs and L.I., and you still won’t represent another square inch of America. The incestuous nature of their legislation is rejected, along with its form of jingoistic relation to accepting our rejection of their stupidity.

        • Why not just put a wall around NYC and Nassau and Westchester Counties and make therm a city state separate from the actual New York? You could call it Bloomberg.

        • Don’t waste the concrete.

          They’re all just waiting for Piano Cat to play them out to a cover of Billy Joel’s Miami 2017.

        • Publious, the population of NYC is 8.4 million. The population of NY State is 19.65 million, so your details are quite wrong. However, you are correct that they dominate the legislature.

  3. As I recall, the feds gave up on the ammo check effort some years ago. But apparently the New York anti-gun monkeys didn’t take the hint.

  4. The ammunition retailers in Vermont, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania and Ohio thank the State of New York for the increase in business.

    Anybody want to bet that the Indian Nations are going go into the ammunition business?

    • God, I hope so. I live pretty near the reservation, and I already get all my gas there. I’d much rather give my money to the Seneca Nation than Cuomo. Plus, no sales tax. Cheap ka-boom!

    • Non residents can’t buy ammo in Mass or CT. Even if you could, Mass has a limit as to how much you can buy at once. I believe it’s six boxes? And no online purchases are allowed into the Commonwealth. Not sure how that’s regulated.

      • Amended to Vermont, Ohio and Pennsylvania thank you.

        Online retailers won’t knowingly ship to prohibited states.

        If the gun grabbers really wanted regulate ammunition sales they would prohibit retail sales and mandate online sales since you can’t anonymously buy ammunition on the internet. You only can do that at retail outlets.

        • It’s going to be hard getting that bootleg ammo into New York.

          Talk is that New York State Police will have border checkpoint stations to keep out the illegal ammo.

          There are even plans to erect a fence.

        • That is probably an illegal infringement on interstate commerce. States like Virginia that monitor alcohol purchased do so for alcohol tax purposes. They can’t do it for sales taxes. It is not an absolute prohibition either. The state just limits how much you bring in. I am not even sure that they do that anymore. So New York will be on very thin legal grounds to enforce their laws on your behavior in neighboring states. It would be like confiscating you gambling winnings from Las Vegas when you return back in the days when Nevada had a monopoly on legal gambling. I believe that New York state went after the Indian Nations for untaxed cigarettes and lost that one.

        • @tdiinva said: It would be like confiscating you gambling winnings from Las Vegas when you return back in the days when Nevada had a monopoly on legal gambling

          Actually, the government can pretty much seize anything it wants, anytime it wants.

          Highway seizure in Iowa fuels debate about asset-forfeiture laws
          http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/highway-seizure-in-iowa-fuels-debate-about-asset-forfeiture-laws/2014/11/10/10f725fc-5ec3-11e4-8b9e-2ccdac31a031_story.html

          The case has created a stir in Iowa’s political and law enforcement worlds. The Des Moines Register wrote about the lawsuit and called for legislative reforms in an Oct. 19 editorial that cited the I-80 seizure and a recent investigation by The Post, which found that police nationwide have seized $2.5 billion in cash from almost 62,000 people without warrants or indictments under federal civil asset-forfeiture laws since 2001. The laws allow police departments to keep up to 80 percent of the cash they seize.

          Law Lets I.R.S. Seize Accounts on Suspicion, No Crime Required
          http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/26/us/law-lets-irs-seize-accounts-on-suspicion-no-crime-required.html

          Using a law designed to catch drug traffickers, racketeers and terrorists by tracking their cash, the government has gone after run-of-the-mill business owners and wage earners without so much as an allegation that they have committed serious crimes. The government can take the money without ever filing a criminal complaint, and the owners are left to prove they are innocent. Many give up.

      • Non resident pistol permit lets you buy in CT. It’s how I have been doing it so far but it still sucks. Prices in my NY area have gone up ever since this f..ing act took away internet sales.

      • Mass has a limit as to how much you can buy at once.

        Nope. MA does limit how much you can store (fire hazard), not how much you can buy.

        (a) Small Arms Ammunition
        1. Not more than 10,000 rounds of rim fire ammunition.
        2. Not more than 10,000 rounds of center fire ammunition.
        3. Not more than 5,000 rounds of shotgun ammunition.

        Ammo availability being what it is, I’ll hit the 10,000 round limit for rimfire in about the year 2929.

        • in the year 2525..
          IF man is still aliiiiiive
          if woman can surviiiiive
          they may fiiiiind
          some rimfire ammunition?

        • That fire hazard rule is so bogus.

          It has nothing to do with fires.

          Just another excuse to inconvenience and marginalize gun owners, while laying the groundwork for future prohibitions.

          The gun grabbers always start with an arbitrary number that seems “reasonable and sensible,” then they keep lowering it until they reach their goal of zero.

          Nobody needs more than 10,000, 5,000, 500, 50 rounds of ammo.

        • That fire hazard rule is so bogus.

          Of course it is. I’m not in favor of any quantity restrictions, but if I was a MA legislator who really wanted to crush gun owners, 10,000 rounds of centerfire ammo, 10,000 rounds of rimfire ammo and 5,000 shot shells wouldn’t be the numbers I’d pick.

        • That’s the point.

          In order to get the law on the books, they start with something “reasonable” that low-information voters won’t object to.

          Then the law gets amended…and amended…and amended.

          That’s their technique. Witness Colorado. They’ll probably push for 10 rounds next to match New York.

  5. What a pain in the ass. Does this extend to primers and powder as well? Maybe it’s time to retire to Wellsboro, PA and invest in a big Dillon press.

      • Well, actually, I’m already in South Central PA. I just really like that area up there around Wellsboro and this just looked like a possible marketing opportunity to make early retirement possible!

  6. I live in Buffalo, but I play for several orchestras in Erie PA. From here on in, any ammo I get is going to enrich the tax coffers of the Great State of Pennsylvania. Nice job, NY, on screwing the state out of the tax dollars of one citizen who, while he could pass the background checks, chooses not to have to.

  7. Quick check on web just now…107 bucks one way from La Guardia to Dallas/Ft Worth…

    Best said by Peter Paul and Mary…Leaving On A jet Plane

  8. Either New York City should be forcibly seceded from the U.S. and kicked out into the Atlantic, or it and New York state proper should be separate states.
    While we’re at it, let Illinois and Chicago peacefully part ways as well.

      • I left the “Region” in 1968 and haven’t visited since 1974. Don’t miss that area at all. And I lived on the sunny east side of the state line. 😉

  9. Next up: background checks for slings and holsters — so when bad guys try to buy that custom Mitch Rosen for their crime gun, BOOM! Jail! Excelsior!

    • Don’t forget background checks for lasers, night sights and scopes.

      Because assassins…in movies.

  12. No kick NYC into the sea. Upstate of Westchester county Cuomo was decisively outvoted. Hopefully the weasels back down on this.

  13. It’s interesting how statist politicians try to reinvent the wheel every time they decide do something oppressive, rather than just copying the tried-and-proven oppression of other states.

    They could have just adopted the FOID card system used in Illinois. The application fee pays for the administrative costs, the card is good for ten years and you have to show it to the retailer every time you buy ammo. The State gets to pretend they’re keeping dangerous ammunition out of the hands of dangerous people, and from the retailer’s perspective it’s completely non-intrusive.

    • NJ has it too but ours is lifetime. It’s a little intrusive here when buying pistol ammo, the information on the card and your drivers license is recorded in a book. The issue with the card is its a glorified business card and when laminated doesn’t fit into your wallet. I’ve had mine for almost two years now and it’s already getting messed up.

      • Perhaps they should switch to something that can be pinned to your lapel, out of the way, yet easily visible. /sarc.

        • We’ve been lobbying for neck tattoos but the Democrats can’t figure out what to do for people who wear turtlenecks.

        • Chuck, when I lived in NJ I trimmed the edges a bit and then laminated it and trimmed that real close and It fit in my wallet.
          Then I got an even better Idea…
          I moved to PA 😛

    • Issuing something like the FOID card would not fulfill their actual goal, which is to make purchasing ammunition as arduous as possible.
      Also, as part of the SAFE act, all handgun permits are now to be renewed every five years. Previously, many counties issued lifetime permits.
      Back in the day if you had a pistol permit, you didn’t have to go through a NICS check for firearm purchases. That got knocked out because the counties were not keeping their permit records up to date, and running routine NICS checks on current permit holders to be sure that they were still eligible. It’s not that they weren’t pulling permits from people that were subsequently convicted felons, it was that they weren’t pulling permits of the deceased.
      So first thing was that even if you had a CCW you had to submit to a NICS for each purchase. Then with the SAFE act, permits would have to be renewed every five years.
      The whole issue here is that government was not doing its job. If they had run routine NICS on permit holders and checked whatever database they had for deaths in a timely fashion, they could have pulled the permits from those no longer eligible or dead. Instead of properly funding the counties so this could happen, they instead make it more onerous for CCW holders.
      The logic behind this makes my head explode.
      Government doesn’t do its job correctly, so the answer is more government. Instead of simply flowing more funds to the counties to adequately administer their permitting system, let’s come up with an extremely costly and inconvenient way to further burden our citizens both with their time and money. Let’s figure out a way to drive up the cost of ammunition by having the retailer have their staff spend an inordinate amount of their time selling a customer a box of 45s, so either the cost of the ammunition is prohibitive to the consumer or inefficient to the retailer that they exit the market.

      • Forgot to mention that the ammunition background check provision only applies to retail or commercial sales of ammunition. Anyone not a retail or commercial seller of ammunition is perfectly welcome to sell and ship ammo to citizens of the great state of NY.
        One other wonderful provision of the SAFE act is the mandatory reporting of loses or thefts of any and all firearms or AMMUNITION! So if I drop a shotgun shell when I’m hunting, or a round spills out of my range bag, I’m mandated to report the loss to the police.

  14. In NC I don’t even need an ID to buy ammo. But if I go to MA and want to shoot at a range, I have to bring my own from NC? That is effed up.
    I’ll ask my brother-in-law if he wants me to bring him some stock up ammo next time we visit.

    • If you are in possession of ammo in Massachusetts without the proper Mass license, it’s felony city. NB: This also applies to “ammunition components” or some similar verbiage, including primers, loose bullets or spent .22 LR cases (!!).

      • Yep, if you don’t have a Firearm Owner ID (FOID) and you pick up a spent shotgun shell or rifle brass on your nature walk…BAM!

        Up to two years in jail.

        • @raincrow, OOS hunters can carry their loaded long guns while hunting with a MA nonres hunting license. Deer hunting here is restricted to shotguns, muzzle-loaders and bows, with a special crossbow dispensation required for handicapped bowhunters.

  15. AMMO? We need background checks for knives, kitchen cutlery, forks, sporting equipment like baseball bats, golf clubs, tire thumpers, tire irons, garden and law equipment, lawnmower blades, shovels, and axes and then we’ll be getting somewhere. In fact, what we really need is a buying permit.

    With your buying permit, you go to the store and fill up your cart as normal. You present your permit to the clerk at time of checkout and a background check is run and instructions are returned to the clerk from the Bureau of alcohol, tobacco, firearms, explosives, and anything you buy (BATFEAYB). The clerk then removes items from your cart that are a “public safety issue,” and items the BATFEAYB deem not appropriate for your livelihood, and then you are clear to leave the store.

    When you buy anything, all your belongings (with unique individual buyers serial numbers) are automatically registered, because the police shouldn’t have to do things like “investigate,” All they should have to do is type a number into a console and retrieve an address. Anyone who illegally transferred a belonging without a background check and registration can then be prosecuted for the transfer (and the murder if it was used as a murder weapon) to the fullest extent of the law (with mandatory sentences of course).

    • Too complicated. Wouldn’t it just be simpler to have some sort of economic/political system where the state owns everything, everyone works for the government, and the government determines what your needs are and gives you the stuff they say you need? Has that ever been tried before? It seems like it would work really well, with no negative consequences whatsoever.

  16. Figures they’d implement after hunting season. Keep the FUDDs in the dark till next year, and don’t threaten the considerable license and other revenues generated from deer season. Jerks.

  17. In order to purchase ammo here in Connecticut, I now have to present either an ammo certificate, a long gun certificate or my pistol permit.

    And there are still limits on what I can purchase due to insufficient supply.

    (2) bricks of Eley .22 coming today from MidWest via UPS.

  18. NY seems to be in the same boat as us in California, many well meaning, law abiding citizens who treasure their civil rights being outvoted by idiotic statist ideologues who vote in jackasses like Cuomo. This is the result. Sorry for you my NY brothers. I would not comply. Learn how to reload and or buy your ammo elsewhere. Thank goodness our Governor has vetoed ammo registration bills the past two years in a row but when he is termed out, the next statist tyrant will sign it into law. We will be in the same exact position as NY in the next few years.

  19. In my mind, the best way to fight this kind of horse hockey is to substitute 2a with the right to vote. For example, in order to vote you must pay a fee, pass a background check, take a class, pass a test, ask permission to purchase s pen to vote with, etc.

    We all need to pull together on this. What I mean is I have no desire to own an AR, but if you want to, I will help you defend your right to do so. Too many times, we get caught up in our own wants and lord sight of the big picture.

    The reason crap like this passes is the low information voter along with the POTG that have the idea that it’s not my ox getting voted do why should I care.

    Where were all the hunters on this while it was going yhrough? Why are they waiting until after hunting season to implement? If this was such a great idea, why delay until after mid term elections?

    Remember that the antis only have to win 1 time and we are hosed.

    • @Frank said:

      For example, in order to vote you must pay a fee, pass a background check, take a class, pass a test, ask permission to purchase s pen to vote with, etc.

      But…but…that would be too onerous…it would discourage people from voting…over the years more and more people would give up on voting…polling places would become fewer and farther between, making it even harder to vote…

      Oh…wait…I get it.

      How cunning!

  20. “…and it will ensure that ammunition is not purchased by criminals and the mentally ill”

    …directly from a retailer within the state of New York. It’s a good thing that the entire state has those five-story high, razor-wire-topped concrete walls surrounding it, with no way in or out.

    Imagine the chaos and bloodshed that could ensue if there were open, free roads leading into and out of New York into surrounding states, and anyone – criminals and the mentally ill, even! – could simply leave, buy ammunition elsewhere, and return with it.

  22. I will believe it when I see it. It’s going to slow things down so much when they finally do it. It was something to do something. I wonder what evidence do they have that this will stop anything. What past event could have been stopped by this measure

  23. Lets make a law 1)Any official lied or commits a crime 2)Any Police Officer lied or commits a crime
    Lieing as part of your job you loose your job and any benefits
    Crimes they are put to death.

    Watch how fast the state will turn around

  25. BG checks on ammo? Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    GTFO now, and don’t look back. Move to a red state, and help keep it that way.

  26. i go to walmart for ammo long story short i asked the guy when this would take affect and he said probably never due to the cost of the system involved/computer to do this background checks

  27. I have about 5K rounds of every pistol caliber I own.
    If I were to move back there. Im not.
    I wonder what happens if I were to bring bring it all with me??
    Will they set up a gate at all highway state lines??
    They cant even stop cigarettes from coming in by the truckload.
    How do they intend to stop ammo??

  28. “Issuing something like the FOID card would not fulfill their actual goal,
    which is to make purchasing ammunition as arduous as possible.”

    This…. This is ALWAYS about control…its what the statists in your
    statehouse and mine crave above all….as much as life itself. It
    does not matter if it “works”…that’s not the point. Like the push
    to get “background checks” on any firearm you buy (and then
    make sure so many things are felonies/prohibited persons so
    no one can buy anything).

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