The idea of schlepping your concealed carry firearm onto a plane has become as improbable as a date with Bacon Babe of the Month (2007) Belinda Strange. And yet why not? Why shouldn’t you be able to carry your firearm on a plane? Does your natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms end at, say, 5000 feet? You would’ve thought that the 9/11 attacks would’ve changed people’s minds about the advisability of armed self-defense on a plane. But then that’s you. And me. And Ron Paul. The rest of the world—especially the statists running the federal government—have been hell-bent on getting the TSA to continue its King Canute-like policy of drawing a line in the sand regarding personal defense in the skies . . .
Click here for coverage of the TSA’s climb-down on knife carry at The Truth About Knives.
If I’m on an airplane,its because I’m the one flying it.
Public air travel has too much in common with prisoner processing for my taste.
In his great wisdom, it was ARCHIE BUNKER who said “YOU WANT TO STOP AIRLINE HIJACKING, ISSUE EVERY ONE A GUN”
Every one thought that was a FUNNY line, until 911……..
R.I.P. Jean Stapleton.
It’s interesting to note that Meathead is still a Socialist, imagine your surprise.
Why did people stop laughing after Archie dialed 911? Did Archie have a heart attack?
+1. The conditions for air travel in the US these days are so offensive to liberty as to be unconscionable.
Getting a clear shot on a plane is going to be a pain in the ass. both you, and the BG would have to be in very specific positions to not have someone directly behind him. But if the situation is bad enough, you gotta do what you gotta do.
note: This post is not meant to express an opinion on the carry prohibition.
The operating principle is that if you couldn’t know how many people on your plane were carrying the likelyhood of a hijacking and the need to find a shooting solution would approach zero.
My solution would be to place a bucket of J-frames at the gate for anyone who wanted to take one on the plane, but only 1 out of 3 would actually work. Archie may have been on to something, although the logic of it was undoubtedly not intentional on the part of Carrol or the writers.
Aren’t we talking about private property, the airlines, here? I’ve said in past threads that our civil rights don’t end at the door of a business and had multiple people tell me that private property rights trump civil rights. Either way, I’m only going to fly in the event of a death in the family until TSA is reined in or the airlines go broke.
That’s my opnion on the matter too. I flat out refuse to fly anymore. Hours in line to have to be all but strip searched? Can’t take toenail clippers or shampoo? Can’t take my knife or carry piece? No thanks. I recently drove almost 30 hours home to my family with a broken sternum, broken knee, and 9 broken ribs because it was less painfull than airport security.
Me to the airlines –> FOAD
30 hours with all that?
I’d salute you, but I don’t know if I can because I’m not military.
Ummm… private property rights ARE Civil Rights. And yes, the rules on private property DO “trump” Constitutional Rights, to a limited extent, because most Constitutional protections are limits on the Government, not on Private Citizens.
Pave, I may have not worded it properly. By private property rights I do not mean your home. I mean a business that is open to the public, like a store a theater or an airline. If you cannot ban people from these places based on their race or faith or any other reason that would violate their civil rights how can you violate my civil rights by banning my gun?
jwm, You have a very valid question.
In Oregon, in my last career, I could only enforce traffic crimes on ” private property, primesis open to the public”. DUII, reckless, etc. one can run a stop sign in a grocery store parking lot here and it’s no foul.
I wonder how the Feds can enforce this?
Any attorneys out there?
Just have the requirement that you have frangible ammo in your mags while on the plane; otherwise you are good to go.
The fact that so many people, even so called gun rights people, freak out at this idea; just shows how far we have fallen as a people.
Sigh
> Just have the requirement that you have frangible ammo in your mags while on the plane; otherwise you are good to go.
That’s terrible. Frangible ammo tends to break in guns causing malfunctions.
A bullet hole through a window or whatever isn’t going to cause any problems to a airliner.
Compression in a hull on a airliner isn’t because they are air tight… they are not. They leak air significantly all the time. The air pumps are required to be on continuously to keep the air compressed inside and a few new holes a few millimeters across isn’t going to make any difference.
The explosive decompression fear or people getting sucked out of windows is pure Hollywood myth. Completely unfounded.
Seriously? You want to allow concealed carry on airplanes, where one idiot failing to practice proper gun safety can take down the whole aircraft?
For extra fun, remember that the 9/11 hijackers weren’t lone gunmen – they were trained to act as a team. Are you all that eager to take on a whole squad of combat-trained gunmen single-handed?
How about someone that just shoots out a window – at 30,000 feet – over the ocean?
First, a pistol isn’t going to bring down a plane. Even Mythbusters knows that much. Second, that team of 9/11 hijackers taught us the stupidity of not fighting back when trouble starts. Now do you want to take on a team of hijackers with a gun or your rape whistle?
I obviously need to look that episode up. I missed it.
Thnx for clarifying…
The “one gun can bring down an airplane” myth has been debunked and disproved quite a few times now, most notably by Mythbusters. About the only way it could happen is if an extraordinarily unlucky shot managed to destroy a vital system AND its backup. And they all have backups. But one bullet through a window like in the movies? Not going to do anything but drop the oxygen masks and make your ears hurt.
Not even that, most likely. It takes several square feet of hole to really overwhelm the pressurization system of any large airline.
Ahh, RepubAnon, you prove my point.
Basing your beliefs and your actions on hysterical and unfounded fears, with out logic or fact.
It’s what I have said, how far we have fallen.
Pretty difficult to do. You’ll have better luck with Lotto tickets, trust me.
22+ years USAF aircraft mechanic here.
Maybe if you get confused and carry your 40mm instead of your .40 caliber?
How anyone can reach the conclusion that 1 pistol bullet sized hole can bring down an airliner when military aircraft have been known to return shot up with .50BMG, 20mm, and 40mm always amazes me. Also, as noted this has been thoroughly debunked several times.
Further, if you read the suggestion, it was that 1/3 of the people on board be armed with working weapons. Given that, it would take an awfully large squad of terrorists to assert control. The more likely outcome is that they either don’t try, or all die.
> You want to allow concealed carry on airplanes, where one idiot failing to practice proper gun safety can take down the whole aircraft?
A gun on a airplane isn’t any more dangerous then a gun in your car or anywhere else.
You obviously have no clue what you are talking about.
Nah I’m near Detroit, try to set a bomb off in your underpants we will beat your @$$!
IMHO, I think a mandatory training class with at least quarterly refreshers would be mandatory so that the tsa could force the airlines to allow CC.
Not too much different than a crowded restaurant as far as bystanders goes. There is the whole pressurized cabin thing, so an ammo mandate would likely be in the mix as well.
Puh-lease. We can’t even get concealed carry in Illinois, so how are we going to get concealed carry on an airplane?
Ron Paul 2016!
He’s retired. We need to find a new champion of liberty.
Rand Paul.
Ted Cruz 2016!
It took me a little more than 24 hours to drive my car from Westbrook, CT to Memphis, TN when I moved here. We packed as much as we could fit in the car and litterally left the rest behind. Anyways, I dont need to pack much for a trip and drive proffesionaly. Screw flying.
First of all, TSA has massively over stepped its bounds, and its a PITA. Since 9/11 hijackers took over planes armed only with box cutters, I’m loath to have CC on planes without any sort of background check or oversight of those who are armed.
Similarly, I reserve the right to kick someone out of my house, because I pay the mortgage. I believe the airlines should have first dibs on their security just like armored truckers provide security for themselves. I should know, I open carried while I worked for Dunbar Armored. It was my responsibility, along with my partner, to get millions of dollars of cash and valuables to their destination. A 747, along with its cargo of passengers and crew, is worth more than what I had in my armored truck.
The primary weapon used on 9/11 was knowledge of the current expectations and mindset of the crews and flying public at the time. It was a weapon that was already losing effectiveness the very same day.
If a bunch of guys tried to take over a plane today with box cutters, do you think the passengers would just sit idly by and let it happen?
+1000
And what people don’t realize is that there are still formidable weapons on aircraft. While they are basically non-lethal weapons they are readily available to passengers and will disable a hijacker almost immediately.
The cabin doors to the flight controls have been hardened, and pilots can fly armed. While I agree that knowledge by terrorists and complacency by passengers (except Flight 91) was a greater weapon than the box cutters themselves, I still don’t support CC on planes without some form of oversight. Terrorists have flown with us before, and they can certainly fly with us again. Concentrating 10 or 20 of those psychotic scumbags on a single flight, armed, would be disastrous.
Accur81,
Nothing stops 10 or 20 terrorists from concentrating anywhere. They could congregate at a movie theater, a school, or a fertilizer plant and cause mass casualties. (Read about the Beslan school massacre for example.)
What would those 10 terrorists do with hardened cockpit doors? They cannot gain control of the cockpit. All they can do then is shoot passengers. And armed passengers can shoot back.
As for making the plane crash, handgun bullets won’t do that. Besides, there are other ways to guarantee a plane crash without even having to be on the plane. Possibilities include a terrorist flying a small airplane kamikazi style into a jet airliner on approach or takeoff or even flying a small RC airplane into the engine of a jet airliner on approach or takeoff … among others.
How many times have criminals, terrorists, or organized crime gangs attacked police stations? And how many casualties did those criminals, terrorists, or organized crime gangs inflict at police stations? The answer is close to zero in both categories. If terrorists know that about a dozen good citizens are armed on board an airplane, they will look for other targets.
So why prevent everyone from carrying?
Thank you for this.
Back before 9/11, even before my state of Ohio had a concealed carry law a somewhat humorous incident occurred that this thread reminded me of.
I had driven my uncle to the airport and we’d said our goodbyes outside the security area. He entered the security line and I had turned to leave when he called my name. I turned back to see him coming towards me with arms outspread as if to give me a hug. Now, this uncle isn’t exactly the touchy feely type, nor one for sentimentality or long goodbyes, but what was I to do? He wrapped me in his arms nearly sobbing out “I’m going to miss you so much Bubby . . .” as he surreptitiously stuffed his pistol down the back of my pants. It seems he’d forgotten to relieve himself of it and remembered it only at the security check point. He managed to drive it so far into the seat of my pants that I had to go to the men’s room in order to retrieve it without being obvious.
A little off topic, but perhaps it will give someone a smile today.
That’s an awesome story, props to your uncle for improvising on the fly so smoothly.
Mission accomplished!
hahaha
good one!
It’s spelt “Fuhgeddaboutit”. We Noo Yawkuhs don’t pronouce ah ahs.
Folks? Does the expression “Explosive Decompression” mean anything to anyone? A trigger happy exchange shoots out the window of an aircraft that the breathable air is gone instantly.
Yeah, you’re that guy. It just doesn’t work that way. Here’s where the Mythbusters did it.
Watch this video to see the test with a pistol shot through the window, and then when it gets to about 1:45, if you want to get away from the weird British narrator, jump to this video to see what happened when they blew the whole window out.
Cliff’s Notes version: Not a lot happens. Nothing at all with a bullet, and when they blew the whole window out, the guy sitting right next to it would not have been happy, but the plane would not have fallen out of the sky.
You-that-guy, did you miss that entire exchange above about this very thing?
It better be somewhat higher than 5,000 feet; my house is at 7,500 feet.
At this point you could allow people on airplanes with guns, knives, machetes and chainsaws. No one will be able to hijack a US Airliner for a very long time, passengers will beat him to a pulp. The underwear bomber and the shoe bomber were both beaten severely enough by passengers as to require hospitilization.
What concerns me about the TSA is that they aren’t protecting us from squat. Last month I was flying in uniform and got singled out for random additional screening. So while I was having my hands swabbed and getting wanded a dude in a man dress and a beard down to his chest (Wahabbi) got waved on through. Does this make sense to anyone? The 9/11 flights were hijacked by military aged males from arab countries. Should these not be the people chosen for additional screening as opposed to say military personnel traveling in uniform?
If someone really wanted to get a gun or a bomb on a plane, they would find a way. They are wasting colossal sums of money in creating this illusion of “safety.” How many airplanes fall from the sky due to technical issues with the plane or weather issues vs hostage takeovers?
Regardless, they are not concerned so much with your safety as they are with their’s. They don’t want 747’s crashing into the pentagon (again) or buildings in DC.
If they were concerned for your safety there would be parachutes under your seat – not ridiculous cheap seat floaties.
Concealed carry in a plane has almost nothing to do with a gun fight on the plane. I seriously doubt it will happen. In my mind, it is about honoring my right to keep AND BEAR arms while maintaining continuity between locations. No running to the car, driving it off airport property and finding some place private to load up and put on the holster and ammo carriers.
I can friggin’ carry a gun just about anywhere I want to, but suddenly I become a pre-terrorist because I cross an invisible line at the airport? I do not even need a permit to open carry in my state, so what is the problem? Since I do have the permit, why would my behavior suddenly change?
“If someone really wanted to get a gun or a bomb on a plane, they would find a way. They are wasting colossal sums of money in creating this illusion of “safety.” How many airplanes fall from the sky due to technical issues with the plane or weather issues vs hostage takeovers?”
It is called the ramp job. Get a job doing that and you have access to the cargo. They will know the TSA search pattern. Any airport job yields access to most of the airport. Any professional terrorist with experience with rhe Israelis will be able to get past the TSA.
You wanna carry on a plane? Get your own damn plane! If you have to use someone else’s talents and equipment to move your lazy ass from point A to point B then ya gotta follow their rules.
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