Those of us with carry licenses sometimes must choose between discretely carrying in sensitive areas or forgoing our ability to defend ourselves. Plenty of us choose to ignore non-legally binding policies and carry anyway. Frankly, for many of us, “concealed means concealed”. We do not want to forfeit in a deadly encounter by failing to carry a safety rescue tool.
Many employers have policies against carrying weapons on company property. Realize that ignoring that policy will probably cost your job if discovered. You must weigh the cost-benefit ratio before carrying in such a workplace. At work, don’t ever tell a soul that you carry. Loose lips will sink careers. If you’re the boss, you still don’t tell anyone. Practice discretion or it could cost you business, customers or even your life.
Even if your employer allows carry, a minor mistake like leaving your piece in the restroom after doing your business may well leave you unemployed.
Other private property locations may have “no guns” policies that do not carry the force of law. While time spent at these locations is often low-risk, walking to or from the venues may pose a very different threat. Bad guys always prefer dark alleys and parking lots to ply their trade.
In these sensitive locations, your goal should be zero printing and no tell-tale clues. Small-framed semi-autos and revolvers in pocket holsters will serve you better than any full-size gun where you need maximum discretion. Tuckable holsters have those tell-tale clips that the average Joe won’t see or recognize, but the trained eye will pick them out instantly. Ankle holsters provide great concealment with the right gun, but make sure you left the high-water trousers at home. The wrong pants or holster might reveal more than some ankle when you sit. In short, concealed means concealed.
Practice safety as well. Keep your heater in a holster of some sort. A holster or pouch will keep the gun oriented in the same position at all times. What’s more, it’ll break up the outline of the gun and greatly reduce the potential for a negligent discharge. It keeps stuff like and keys (and lipstick tubes for you guys with chapped lips) from getting inside the trigger guard and/or interfering with deployment.
Remember, while the sheep are clueless about printing and other clues, you may find yourself around other gun aficionados or skilled law enforcement working a second job as security. Avoid any tell-tale clues that might single you out for extra scrutiny from an zealous security guard. A knife or flashlight clipped to your pocket may earn you that unwanted scrutiny. Product branding on your clothing may do much the same.
Practice camouflage. Instead of wearing your GLOCK shirt, wear your Moms Demand Action shirt. (You can’t have mine as I shot holes in it.) Need a drink carrier? Take that Whole Foods or Sierra Club drink bottle. Leave anything that screams “tactical” at home, including 5.11 clothing. Embrace your opportunity to put to work those revenge gifts you received from thoughtless relatives suffering Trump Derangement Syndrome.
At home, make sure your family members – including kids – know and understand never to mention that concealed carry gun. They should never joke about concealed carry, or mention it to friends or extended family. Make CCW “the topic that shall never be mentioned” outside your home. The same goes for inside your home when guests visit.
Also, leave the reloads at home or in the car (as allowed). Each reload you carry will require that same deep concealment, just like the gun. Unfortunately, even speedstrips will print through pockets in certain conditions. The fewer objects you need to hide well, the better.
So practice good concealment and you can carry stealthily almost anywhere.
“Plenty of us choose to ignore non-legally binding policies and carry anyway.”
So, your respect of property rights is at the same level as the anti-gun crowd’s respect of firearms rights. Both are equally important. If a person does not want your firearm on their property, leave and go someplace else.
Yep!
Nah, it’s actually quite different. You as an individual are ignoring someone’s (usually a large companies hand wringing executives) request. Not the same as a government telling people they can’t have the tools to defend themselves. You’re breaking a social code, they’re breaking the constitution.
If that person is an individual, a close friend worth keeping (I have a few that fit this bill) and we are talking about their home, then I would respect that request to not carry. But that isn’t the example given in this article.
A company, such as a retail establishment or a mall? In that case yes, I will return the favor of disrespect – as they would seem to have for my rights – and walk right past that company’s (legally non-binding in my state) sign.
While I generally won’t spend my money at such establishments, it isn’t as if I research every place I ever go in advance and returning to a car to obviously disarm in public is bad OPSEC x 10…frankly, it is safer for everyone to ignore the sign.
There is no constitutional or moral obligation to be completely honest with someone because you are on their property. Otherwise how could you ever negotiate a business deal?
“Well, I really wanted you to hire me at $23/hr, but now because I’m on your property I have to tell you I’d still take the job if you offered $14/hr”
“Well, my chosen method of self defense has absolutely nothing to do with you, but now because I’m on your property I have to tell you I’m carrying a gun.”
I would guess that most companies with no carry policies don’t actually care as long as the weapon is safely hidden (and you have money to spend). But I may be projecting, there.
So are there any other constitutional rights that you should give up when you enter a privately owned public space that don’ t interfere with the spaces operation?
Sounds like property rights trump constitutional rights in your book. Hay, I all for preventing people from interfering with a business, but tell me how carrying a concealed weapon interferes with a business. Then I think you have an argument.
A hand drawn sign is not the same as a request by a person to leave because you are carrying. In some states a No Weapons Allowed sign must fit certain standards and have specific signage to make it legal (otherwise it’s the same as scribble on toilet paper), but if a manager asks you personally to leave, then you are required by law. TOTALLY different.
Exactly. If I’m ‘made’ and asked to leave, i’ll head out the door with no intention of ever returning. But the point of the article is ‘how not to be made carrying in unfriendly places.’ So who will be the wiser unless you actually need your gat?
What I have inside my waistband is as much my employer’s business as whether I’m circumcised or not.
(Spoiler alert: Its not whatsoever)
Carrying concealed does not infringe on property rights. Dying on property can reduce the property value, so being armed for self-defense helps preserve property value.
Concealed means concealed.
I’m like a keypad. I only have one asterisk.
Chris Mallory,
Property ownership does not bestow upon the property owner the authority to dictate survival options to visitors. Saying it in a more provocative way, property ownership does not bestow upon the property owner the authority to condemn visitors to death.
Example: a property owner cannot ban visitors from breaking down a “private” door if a fire blocks escape from the “public” door. Period.
To the extent that someone carries a self-defense firearm as an escape tool, a property owner has no authority to ban it … no more so than they have the authority to ban flashlights, fire extinguishers, or emergency exits.
Unfortunately, our courts have not yet figured this out. What I described above is what is right, not how the courts would rule in a lawsuit or criminal proceeding regarding the above.
Your place of employment while private property is still public in nature and most employers have it as a matter of policy not for political reasons but for liability reasons.
No, it’s just that my life and safety are more important than someone’s property. I carried in college, off campus, and had study groups at people’s houses. Some of these people were anti gun. I kept it concealed and didn’t say anything. I have no need to honor irrational desires such as “guns are bad”, ect.
Due to my training and skills, I’ll trust my own judgement in regards to being armed over anyone else’s.
I rarely have any qualms about carrying into areas where they’ve posted non-enforceable signs. Your suggestions about not wearing the Glock shirt (and other associated tactikewl nonsense) are spot-on.
Still, I can summarize how I perform everything in the above article:
“Learn to use a shoulder holster, and dress like a grown-up.”
That works here in Wyoming, where we don’t have much tropical weather. I’m sure there’s a variant of the above that works in Florida, eg, a pocket holster, sport slacks, real shoes (no goddamn flip-flops) and a nice, but short-sleeved button-up shirt.
For men, when you wear long-sleeved, button-up shirts, and either a vest (not a tactikewl vest, but a wool vest as we often wear here in the west, two+ seasons out of the year) or a man’s suit jacket or sport coat, you wear clean clothes, and you own and use a belt to hold your drawers where they’re supposed to be, most of your problem is solved. You look like someone serious and grown-up, and you have clothing options that make your gun much less visible. When the 5-0 is giving people the stinkeye about carrying weapons, who gets their attention? Not me. Because I look like a grown-up, I smile, I’m polite, and my appearance doesn’t say “He’s looking to start some crap.” I’ve walked right by cops at “no weapons” checkpoints, even chatted briefly to them in a couple of instances.
What I seek to project is that I’m just a harmless, cuddly, fuzzy old guy, dressed like a mild-mannered, adult, taxpaying citizen.
Agreed with two exceptions:
Never carry where it isn’t legal. Remember Berhard Goetz? An NYC jury found him innocent of trying to murder the four muggers but convicted him of carrying illegally.
Even where it’s technically legal, avoid as much as possible places that clearly object to your being armed. I’d still carry, well concealed, in places like Starbucks where the functional policy is, “Just don’t embarrass us.”
A jury of my peers does not exist in NYC. Course, I won’t be arrested if anything there because I’ll never go there.
Bernie’s problem wasn’t that he carried or even used it to defend himself. It was that he believed the scum-bags in the Constitution-ignoring city gubment that begged him to turn himself in so that “justice” could be done to his attackers. His attackers got a slap on the wrist and were told to go forth and rob again.
Seems there was another gentleman that later got into the same predicament in NYC and when the authorities asked him to bend over and spread his cheeks for them for defending himself he ignored them. Still one of the unsolved mysteries of the Big Apple…..
Bernie LIVED to face trial.
I feel you on the shoulder holster. My local movie theater is a “gun free” establishment. I schlep around a 686 3 inch so I recently started carrying it in a Galco Miami Classic whenever I decided to catch a flick. It, coupled with a jacket affords the pinnacle of discretion.
My feedback: one would never catch me wearing an MDA shirt or anything with a Whole Food’s logo, that would just make me a target similar to putting a “no guns allowed” sign outside your house. Blend in, not stick out either way… unless blending in _is_ to carry a Whole Foods bottle, then I’m very sorry.
I used to wear 5.11 pants to work every day. I just looked like a CNA, not a tacticool mall ninja. 5.11s are great for people working in healthcare. I had pockets for the med-cart keys, pens and markers, gloves, alcohol wipes, a hard case of smokes, etc. And perhaps most importantly, urine will just bead up and roll right off of them.
5.11 covert tacticals are nice. They don’t stand out as overtly operator but plenty of room for activities.
I really like my 5.11s, but as a truck driver I discovered that they are deficient in the ball-room department, so I switched to Wranglers – lots cheaper and more comfortable when sitting. That said, the 5.11s have a nice little pocket for a spare mag, among other amenities, that the Wranglers do not offer. Otherwise, at a casual glance, the two brands are nearly indistinguishable. Only a person who knows about and specifically recognizes 5.11s would know the difference.
When I’m working, Wranglers. On my days off I ALWAYS wear the 5.11s. With a spare mag in the pocket.
I saw the headline and the picture of the girl reaching into what looks like her bra. Much better than a picture of a fat old guy reaching down into the crotch of his shorts. Just sayin….
My first thought was, “Now THAT’S a sensitive area!”
I completely had the wrong mindset going into reading the article. I thought “sensitive areas” meant various locations on the body. LOL
This is why I always try to read all the comments before posting.
I was thinking the same thing with that picture of booby carry.
i fully expected to see dallas archer’s name as author of this article.
maybe some udder balm suggestions…
DG has a very good point here. It’s about your clothing. Not the gun.
I don’t buy the small gun argument. Just this morning I was at the local gym. It was just an old guy and I. We’re walking on the treadmills, he as a cool down from lifting and I with a 35lb backpack. I only intended to do a couple miles but I ended up getting into a conversation with this guy because I complimented him on his truck and walking way further than I planned. Turns out he’s an old Vietnam veteran of the Corps. Anyway, the conversation covers politics and a bunch of other topics.
Long story short: He’s been eyeballing me during our conversation and finally says “You seem like a smart young man but the town’s changing. You should carry a gun these days.” There’s only the two of us in the gym at 4:30 in the morning so I grin and tell him not to worry, I have it covered. He hasn’t noticed that on my hip, on the side of my body facing him, is my full sized USP in my IWB holster. Now, you could chalk this up to his aging eyes but that’s not the case. The guy could read signs across the street, the “crawl” on the TV and spotted my knife’s pocket clip. His eyes were fine and he’s sharp as a tack.
It’s about how you dress, not what you carry. Some body types might not allow full sized carry but most will if you do it right. I’m not a huge guy and I carry that pistol every day plus a spare mag. You need a good holster, some thought about how your body works and the right wardrobe. If you have those things you can carry a full sized gun without any one noticing. I do it every day, including to school when it’s in session and while campus carry is legal here it’s against policy and can get you tossed out.
As for the rest, dress to blend in but don’t take that too far. Around here DG’s suggestion of a wool vest would stick out but a high-tech one doesn’t and is perfectly acceptable. Marmot, Patagonia, Arc’Teryx and whatnot never get a second glance.
Yeah sometimes it’s just about practice and getting comfortable. I’ve been carrying a very small 9mm (Kahr pm9) for 3 years now. I can keep it completely invisible and I’m confident in that fact. I’ve become so confident that I just bought a Glock 26 so I can carry something closer to a “full size” weapon. I’m now used to carrying a loaded gun with “no safeties” and my trigger finger and mind are well trained.
If you’re really worried about printing/looks, get a small gun and get some practice in the real world.
Yep, my suggestion of the wool vest was driven completely by our local environment (where it is currently just above 0F – which is some welcome relief from three weeks of sub-zero temps at night). As I’ve mentioned before, I like wool for clothing because it will keep you warm when wet, it doesn’t make noise, etc. You have to use more care when washing it (or sometimes, it needs to be dry cleaned), but for my everyday wear vests, here’s what I like:
– the “cheap” one is a Woolrich vest, much like this one:
http://www.woolrich.com/woolrich/details/men-s-utility-wool-vest/_/R-18401
Mine has snaps instead of the zipper.
– the expensive one is a Filson:
http://www.filson.com/men/vests/western-vest-10682.html#200
both in charcoal (aka “black”).
Small plug here: Filson clothing is top-shelf stuff. It’s expensive, but it wears forever. I like their tin cloth coats, their sweaters and their vests.
Back to CCW: When wearing a black wool vest, I could probably carry a Desert Eagle in a shoulder rig, and no one would notice. Black vests tend to blend and obscure profile details once you move indoors, out of direct sunlight. It takes lots of light to see shape details under black wool.
This is the other aspect of dressing to carry: Don’t wear light colors, and wear fabrics that don’t print. Especially don’t wear brown or black gun leather under a light shirt if you’re ever going to be around flash photography. Many women have found out (to their embarrassment) that wearing darker underwear under white/light fabrics will show those undergarments when exposed to high-intensity flash photography. Well, the same thing happens to men wearing a white/light dress shirt and a holster under the shirt. No one sees your holster – until they look at the photo. Then, whoops! You’re made. Wear a darker shirt or a heavier shirt if you’re going to be carrying deeply concealed and might have someone light you up with a flash unit.
Wool and wool blends tend to not show details easily, whether we’re talking of the above vests, or a wool suit jacket. Polyesters and poly blends show detailed shapes and contours very easily. Cotton, depending on the weave, can either print easily or resist printing to some extent (but won’t be as good as wool).
No one ever thinks that I’m tactikewl while I’m wearing these vests. Wool and “tactical lifestyle” just aren’t seen together in marketing. Then again, “tactical” clothing is (to me) obviously designed for the tropics and middle eastern deserts, because you’ll freeze your ass off if you wear that stuff around here – the wind goes right through you.
The other thing I make sure to do is choose my belt wisely. I don’t wear a belt that says “I’m carrying a gun in a holster that matches my belt!” I wear a belt that can more than easily carry a gun, but it doesn’t say “I’m carrying a gun.”
ie, I don’t wear “basket-weave” black belts. My belts don’t look like gun belts, they’re very plain, brown or black leather, but very study, full-width belts with plain-looking hardware. One I was able to find from a nationally known holster maker, the other came from a local leatherworker who knew exactly what I was asking for (and had made such a belt for several other people packing concealed). Where people live in warm to hot climates, well, obviously none of my dress habits are going to apply and you need to figure out your own mode of dress, staying within the rule of “dress like a grown-up.”
I acquired a Bodyguard .380 and the appropriately sized sticky holster for just those scenarios where I might be in a “sensitive” area where it’s not illegal to carry per se but being discovered would cause a lot of trouble.
I have walked into Tysons Corner Mall in the summer with a 1911 and two spare mags without anybody batting an eyelash. The Mall is one place where you could use those spare magazines.
I used to wear what I call L.L. Bean tactical. Preppies don’t carry guns. Here in Wisconsin it doesn’t matter what you wear.
Or…Just carry.
Even off duty LEO security probably thinks the prohibition is stupid.
Miniature guns like shields and lcps are for when you need to legally get past a pat down or lazy use of a wand. Normal NPEs….You’re fine with a full size gun or double stack compact plus reload and support gear. E.g., a g19 with a WML, reload, handheld light, and med gear is my minimum carry unless a pat down is involved.
In and out of malls, whole foods, and a bunch of other areas with the irrelevant signs (zero respect for them here…Don’t care what your views are on the matter).
Heck, I’ve carried an AR Pistol in a bag past “absolutely no weapons” signs because I’d rather be asked to leave than leave it in my car.
YMMV if you suck at concealment.
The “You can’t carry a big gun ” syndrome is BS. Virtually any gun up to the size of a 1911 can easily be concealed If you dress like an adult. Yoy can do it even in hot climate. You just wear a loose fitting shirt which keeps you cooler and more comfortable that the typical tight fitting tee shirt. I have always contended that people who carry pocket guns for an EDC don’t really believe that they are ever going to need it. It is not irrational to believe so but rather than admit the truth they come up the too big to carry excuse. If my 5’4″ wife can carry an M-9 you big strong guys can at least carry a G-26 or XD/m compact.
Smartphones have a mind of their own.
In Florida when its 98 deg and humidity is 98% its almost impossible to carry a full size gun unless you like to have heat stroke. Plus at work I am up and down ladders and in all kinds of crazy positions and tight spaces.Your very macho advice about carrying a full size gun is madness. I will carry a pocket gun because i can do it easily in the conditions I live in. Nowadays there is no reason to laugh at pocket guns since you can have them in 9mm and 45ACP. Its not like you are limited to 25 acp or 32. Practice is the key to being effective with your carry gun not how big it is.
I don’t carry a full size gun because it is macho. I carry it because it has a longer sight radius, has better recoil characteristics and better ballistics, i.e. it is more effective no matter what caliber you use.
By the way, Virginia summers are about the same as Florida. I suspect that once Florida gets open carry you will see more people carrying compact and full sized guns. It is fear of printng that drives down pistol size, not comfort.
Following up on DGS and some other comments here, concealed carry is often not just about ensuring the pistol is not easily detected, it’s often more about your appearance, attitude and demeanor while going about your business. As several commenters hove pointed out they carry full size sidearms and spare mags with no repercussions. I generally carry my SR9c with spare mags and ignore stupid signs. So far no one has seemed to notice my EDC, much less asked me to leave their establishment. Don’t look like a punk and don’t act like a jerk. If you don’t attract attention, neither will your pistol.
“concealed carry is often not just about ensuring the pistol is not easily detected, it’s often more about your appearance, attitude and demeanor while going about your business.”
Yup – in spades.
As a confident and casual old guy that wouldn’t be caught dead dressing or acting like a punk or mall-ninja, my mostly concealed gun may have been noticed from time to time. However, never have I received a negative comment or even a concerned glance. Demeanor and attitude is a huge factor in CCW. Even if it is visible, it is usually not noticed.
Visiting the Federal Courthouse I’ve been waved through by the Marshals, only to produce a loaded gun for them to hold while I’m visiting. (That is one place not to game the system!) Other times I’ve dropped a gun in the tray and proceeded about my business with no fuss, while a less discreetly attired knucklehead is virtually strip-searched after producing a nail clipper.
I carried all the time in Commifornia before we left. Full size gun. Coat and tie for work. Rarely got a second look on the rare times it showed.
“Also, leave the reloads at home or in the car”
I disagree, if I am carrying my small .380 I might need more than 6+1 for a variety of reasons I can think of, and probably a few I can’t think of.
Me too. If he had said that first, it would have saved me the wasted time of reading through the article.
I’d say ALWAYS carry extra rounds. You never know when a mag could malfunction or when something like 6 rounds may not be enough to keep you safe!
Connor: Jeez! It’s a f*ckin’ six-shooter. F*ck!
Murphy: There’s nine bodies, genius.
Connor: What the f*ck were you gonna do, laugh the last three to death, Funny-Man?
To the author; did you really refer to leaving your firearm in a bathroom as a minor mistake? I mean, yes, yes you did. You did write that. But on purpose? Really? Wow.
I’m surprised no one has mentioned Smart carry holsters,Ulticlip tuckable clips or Duluth Trading Post clothes. I rarely need to go armed in a NPE but when I do these things have made the process invisible,comfortable and easy to blend in regardless of the environment,weather or security measures. I use the Ulticlip regardless as they just plain work better and are fully hidden behind my belt. Button fly and/or a larger buckle with Smart carry can even get through some wandings with no delay.
That’s not a spoiler. I’m sure nobody wanted to find out. ..the hard way.
There isn’t much discussion here yet of a very important aspect of CC, viz. accessibility. I live where it is very cold and often windy 4 or 5 months of the year. If you’re carrying a gun IWB or even in a shoulder holster while in a parking lot or when out walking, it’s buried under layers of necessary clothing; a bad guy will have emptied a magazine into you before you can retrieve it. For those conditions, it makes sense to carry a lightweight .38 Sp J frame tucked in a holster in the outermost garment’s pocket. Your gun is like insurance: you buy for what will probably happen, not what could but is highly unlikely to happen. It makes sense to prepare for a possible stick-up rather than WW III when you go to the store to buy bread and milk.
If you are out in the cold, you aren’t in a sensitive area. This article was about going to places that do not allow CC such as work or a school. You need to be able to take your heavy coat off without disarming.
If you go to the movies here, my friend, you wear heavy clothing & take off the jacket when you are seated; same thing for a restaurant. I simply keep the coat/jacket with me and still have my firearm within easy reach. When it’s -3F in the morning here, you don’t go to your local coffee shop dressed as if you were in Miami…unless you really want to draw attention to yourself.
I’d still carry on body. I can clear a heavy coat and draw from an IWB holster as fast as I can go into a pocket and pull a gun. Then I won’t have to worry about my gun if I have to go to the restroom or refill popcorn.
On the matter of property rights: they have to inform me of any no-weapons policies for it to matter one way or the other. If national HQ makes a statement to the news media, that’s not good enough. I don’t watch the news on tv, I don’t believe half the crap I read on the internet, and our local free newspaper is a joke unless the story actually happened inside our county.
Likewise, if it’s on a sign, I have to be able to see the sign. Case in point: a nearby Sprouts has the sign behind a potted plant. I kid you not. Didn’t notice it until I was in the checkout line and thus could see the other side of the glass window. I’ve seen Whole Paycheck pull the same stunt a few times too. Shopping malls are notorious for putting no-weapons notices in fine print in a lengthy code of conduct statement somewhere out of general view.
If I’m not informed, it doesn’t count. Especially if I keep it concealed and never invite unnecessary attention.
Don’t be like the guy I noticed at a fast food place in rural Kansas. Smith & Wesson tee, suspiciously bulky triangular object in shorts cargo pocket… I admire his zeal for our constitutional rights, but he’s gonna get a pat down someday if he’s not careful.
An interesting philosophical case could be made that places of public accommodation aren’t quite the same as “private property” where individual rights are concerned. Plenty of legal and social precedent. But I’ll leave that as a mental exercise for the reader.
Also: we could quibble over what “weapon” means. Does my pocketknife count? What about pepper spray? IKEA has a notice on the inside door (if you can read it, it’s already too late and you’re inside) proudly announcing a “weapons-free environment”. Ha! Wishful thinking. Someone wearing a speedo could become very well armed indeed after spending about 30 seconds in their kitchen ware dept. Just not with a firearm.
well said
If a private business has the right to infringe on the public”s Constitutional right to bear arms, why then are they mandated to have a fire exit? Wheelchair access? Fire extinguishing system? All at the owner’s expense. Why can the government, a public entity, tell a private strip club that they cannot have a liquor license?
This lie, that a private business operating in the public realm with a walk in policy can strip individual rights of its patrons, must be put to rest.
The problem is, we are trying to use the same definition of the word “private” in different realities.
When you hang an OPEN sign on your door, you relinquish privacy in that context.
As a concealed carry holder who did the unimaginable and left my Shield in the men’s room at work, I have one piece of advice (which should be obvious): Unless you’re at home or in your vehicle- NEVER, EVER allow your weapon to leave your body! Off-body carry is not “carry”. When you go the restroom DO NOT set your weapon on the TP dispenser (like I did) so you can fidget with your belt or whatever. One of these days it will catch up with you. After a long, difficult day at work, lots on my mind, I walked out of the stall without it. Was incredibly embarrassing & devastating to have to go to the police department to pick it up. Worse, it was in a public area, a child could have found it first. I also had a lot of explaining to do to security and the president of our company. I still have my job, but only because they really like me I guess. At least no one alerted the media, like many of these incidents turnout. Please learn from my mistake! Don’t set it down for even a second.
I put it in my underwear between my feet. can’t
forget it there!
This was a good article. Let’s save the right to carry message somewhere else!
The lack of understanding of constitutional rights by posters points out the failures of american public education. The provisions of the Bill of Rights and other constitutional rights are directed to what the government can or cannot do. Constitutional Rights have little to do with what private persons and companies can do. You hear people shout freedom of speech all of the time. Unfortunately, they usually don’t understand that provision. The bill of rights prohibits the US government from prohibiting speech. Nothing in the constitution says your employer or some non-governmental organization can’t restrict speech rights, say, for instance at work or in Macy’s. The same goes for the 2nd amendment. The government is prohibited from infringing on gun rights provided for by the constitution. This has nothing to do with whether your employer or the mall can prohibit you from carrying a gun. Like it or not, you have no constitutional right to carry a weapon in a store that has determined that it will prohibit such carrying, You only recourse is to shop somewhere else because if you get caught in a prohibited space, depending on state laws, you could be criminally charged and there will be no successful constitutional defense.
The way I see it is if I won’t let the government infringe on my rights, I won’t let a private citizen or corporation do it either.
I may be wrong, but my understanding is that the most the store can do is to ask you to leave. If you refuse, you are trespassing. But you cannot be charged for simply violating their posted store rule any more than if you showed up in bare feet at a store that mandated shoes be worn. In both cases, the store has the perfect right to request that you leave, but that’s it.
Then why can’t a store ban blacks?
Why can’t a shop refuse service for a homosexual wedding?
If you are going to argue property rights, address those cases before claiming our ignorance of the law.
When I cost got my concealed carry I was less concerned with who saw the printing; but I was really concerned about carrying in places that didn’t allow it. Many people that I know will just carry anyplace, regardless of whether a private business or restaurant is posted otherwise. I don’t agree with doing that… so i searched around the web for a bunch of local business rules, but didn’t really find anything.
Luckily I found where2conceal.com there wasn’t any data on the map near me, so I added a bunch of the businesses I go to and some extras. Hopefully others do the same so that when I go out of my area I can see the places others added…
Unless the place enjoys the protection of specific laws (e.g. post offices, schools, courthouses), rules btw that I completely disagree with, I carry my firearm. In my state at least, the most a proprietor can do if he detects a weapon on your person, is ask you to leave; if you refuse, you are trespassing. Generally, though, I assume any business asinine enough to post a no-weapons sign is run by liberals, and I always discriminate against liberals. In my view, they suffer from a mental disease that makes me uncomfortable around them, so I consciously avoid their company whenever possible.
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