I grew up in a liberal household in a liberal community that favored banning handguns. My parents were friends with Dr. Potter, a left-leaning physician gunned down by a drug addict in the parking lot of Providence’s Miriam Hospital. His widow formed Handgun Alert, which eventually evolved into The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. Which my parents supported. Why wouldn’t they? Save my father’s brief foray into duck hunting and his failed attempt to exorcise Holocaust flashbacks by owning a shotgun, we were an anti-gun household. And by “we” I also mean “me.” I was a gun control advocate. Why not confess earlier? I forgot . . .
Seriously. Gun control was a subset of a whole host of liberal causes backed by my parents – from the A.C.L.U.’s crusade for civil rights to Planned Parenthood’s campaign for easy-access birth control and abortion. In the same way that a child growing up in a Christian household believes that Jesus walked on water, I believed that “real” guns were for cops. I never questioned the efficacy, morality or practicality of gun control – until I was mugged.
As I moved away from liberalism in general (10 years in socialist England will do that to a guy), I moved away from gun control in specific. And towards a belief in limited government and an individual right to keep and bear arms. By the time I started this website, my transition was compete.
In the interest of transparency, I’m setting the Way Back Machine for 1979. I wrote the following recently discovered letter to the editor for a college assignment. I reckon the missive offers some insight into the mind of a gun grabber, and hope for gun rights supporters who fear that their opponents will never – can never – embrace their natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms.
One more thing: I’d love to do a point-by-point take-down of my anti-pistol polemic, as I do for anti-gun agitprop published in today’s mainstream media. Suffice it to say, all the arguments I deployed to support gun control as a college sophomore are the same sophomoric justifications I rip to pieces on these electronic pages. How great is that? Oh, and I got an A-.
To the Editor,
America has been without gun control for too long. Too many men, women and children have been brutally cut down by well equipped criminals and careless gun owners. Too many people are finding the ever-present gun a physical solution to their emotional problems. Guns are killing innocent people every day, and it is time that sensible Americans stopped armed violence at its source.
Our country has a long tradition of private gun ownership. The right to bear arms was written into our Constitution to give Americans tangible proof that they were free men: free to defend their life and liberty with force. In the pioneer days, guns provided protection: the nearest officer of the law was often miles away. But these days of “frontier justice” are over, and personal freedom can no longer be made righteous by the explosive force of a deadly weapon.
According to a report prepared by the Center for the Study and Prevention of Handgun Violence (in 1978), the vast majority of the American public favors federal registration of handguns. The reports goes on to reveal that 74% of the public favors registration of all guns in civilian hands. With such a clear public mandate, why is every motion aimed at ridding society of these cheap, plentiful handguns defeated? Ask former congressman Larry McDonald of Georgia.
McDonald, a loyal member of the fiercely conservative John Birch Society, has always been a staunch opponent of gun control. In many ways, McDonald’s fanaticism on the issue mirrors that of the gun lobby. While in Congress. McDonald lobbied violently against any legislative gun reform bill, saying that gun control would leave Americans defenseless against communist invasion. Also while in Congress, specifically during his second term in 1977, McDonald was found to have stockpiled some 200 guns in his Atlanta home. It is clear that one can not debate philosophically with men like McDonald for their philosophy is a philosophy of paranoia.
In 1968, Congress passed the Federal Firearms Control Act which stipulated that any person purchasing a weapon must show some i.d., proof of residence, and sign a statement that says he is not a felon. These requirements, heatedly denounced and contested by the gun lobby, passed the legislature by a slim margin. Ten years later the inadequacy of the law was pointed out in another study, this one by the General Accounting Office. It said, “There has been a direct relationship between increased handgun availability and increased gun-related crimes in America since the mid-sixties. The cause is difficult to determine: apparently the relationship is circular, an increase in one results in an increase in the other.
In response to any call for gun control, the gun lobby argues that “criminals kill people, not guns”. As most of us would agree that the criminal element is not inherently fatal, it follows that criminals with guns kill people. Besides, FBI statistics reveal that most gun related deaths occur between people who knew each other, usually stimulated to murder by sudden emotion. The formula for a reduction of gun fatalities seems simple enough: the less guns there are, the less potential there is they will be used.
The point is this: a small group of vociferous people are intimidating our elected officials from passing life-saving laws that would restrict the sale of guns. Even if you doubt the reasoning of the mighty gun lobby, you can not doubt their dedication. The will of the majority must be heard over the ravings of those who cause the deaths of our loved ones through their ignorance. We can not stand mute while slaughter daily approaches our doorsteps. We have an obligation, already written in the blood of those needlessly killed, to show the gun lobby that we too are willing to dedicate ourselves to action. It is time that we made ourselves heard on the issue of gun control.
I’m glad you’re on our side now.
Good post, Robert; nicely done.
I want to emphasize a comment that “Sbake” said: “This is precisely why we as 2A supporters need to welcome all responsible people who express interest in the sport and our rights. For instance dismissing someone because they are “liberal” could mean turning someone away who would have grown into a passionate 2A supporter.”
“Liberal” and “left-leaning” mean a whole lot of things beyond just RKBA / 2A things. It gets messy when we conflate 2A issues with political issues in general – I may strongly agree with a given political party’s stance on 2A issues but strongly disagree with their stance of transportation issues. (yeah, i know transportation isn’t in the constitution*, but it’s still kind of a big deal).
Anyway, for an entertaining – and inspiring – 3 minutes, you should watch this video. Those of you worried that our interests are too skewed toward red-state OFWGs, take note that this video features a young, female, non-white reporter for Al-Jazeera (yes, Al Jazeera) reporting on guns in California (yes, California; San Francisco even). Watch:
http://america.aljazeera.com/watch/shows/live-news/2014/2/from-google-to-thegunrange.html
* well, maybe some Commerce Clause issues relate to transportation…
The difficulty is not “turning away” Liberals who think they are supporters of the Second Amendment, but in convincing them that so long as they remain Liberals and support Liberal politicians they are at best hypocrites and at worst “useful idiots.”
We should welcome every person who wants to support the natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms, but as RF points out in his post, it must in almost every case come with a further realization that support for Liberals and Progressives and their anti-gun agenda is entirely contrary to that goal.
Dang, so much for the POTG club, now it’s the “…at best hypocrites and at worst “useful idiots.”” club.
All facetiousness aside, there are many left-leaning libertarians, most of whom have very valid and well-thought out reasons for their views. And as has been said here, let’s not alienate any supporters just because we don’t believe in them in toto.
The problem is that those left leaning members of POTG don’t vote based on the second amendment, but on the social issues that carry more weight.
So yes, they like guns, they support the second amendment.. but they’re still going to vote for the likes of Fienstien and Obama.
There’s plenty of alienation going on, for both sides of the political spectrum. I’m a staunch conservative, and I feel like the odd man out more often than not here at TTAG.
We don’t vote based on the Glorious Second at a national level, because NO ONE REPRESENTS OUR RIGHTS. Which will you choose, Gun-Grabber A, or Gun-Grabber B?
We need third, fourth, fifth parties. But first we must convince the electorate that BOTH A and B will take their guns.
I think a lot of us former non-gun-owners also swayed “leftish”..
Until either: we were mugged, or we shot a gun.
I was mugged.
Yup. I was mugged as well. Something like that will change your perspective.
I didn’t have to be mugged. I attended public school.
Public school here. But I’m much older. I was small and unathletic, but we had no bullies that I was ever aware of. Small VA town, everyone respected one another. All the way through high school. Even college.
I had one incident with a couple drunks, just off campus, who hassled me for long hair. I picked up a bottle and broke the end off, right then and there. The issue died with one guy wanting his face to be hamburger, and the other one getting him the hell out of harm’s way. Don’t f*ck with me, aholes.
I have never been accused of being even a little bit “left leaning,” but a couple of decades ago I found myself in a relationship with a VERY leftist young lady. Our philosophical differences led to some rather…interesting…discussions.
On one point, she was quite adamant. She HATED guns, and thought they had no legitimate purpose whatsoever.
On one occasion, we found ourselves camping with some friends, and one of them brought a 9mm Hi Power. He shot it. I shot it. We had some (safe) fun. I never broached the subject of shooting it with her because I never dreamed she would want to be anywhere near it. Indeed, I thought my even holding the thing in front of her was my own little act of rebellion.
To my utter amazement, and shame, she later asked me why I did not offer for her to shoot it. She was hurt that I did not take the opportunity to teach her something about which she really had no experience.
I deeply regret losing that opportunity. At the time, I just had no idea she would be even open to the idea of shooting.
Lesson learned. ALWAYS offer to take someone shooting, especially if they have preconceived ideas that are not based on experience.
Taking someone shooting is usually a big step, that should be taken. The more People of the Gun, the better. And yes, don’t screen anyone out because they are “liberal”. There’s a lot of firearms enthusiasts out there that I know that may not toe the party line on other issues. They may be pro-2A and pro-choice, for example. Or pro-2A and pro-socialized medicine, for example.
Anyway, not everyone has the inherent curiosity to just go ahead and do it themselves. Also, more and more ranges restrict “solo rentals” these days. My first experience shooting a firearm aside from a .22LR when I was a kid was renting a pistol at a local range and running 50 rounds of 9mm through it. It was a Nano so big deal there, but I do look around now and know that it would be hard to do. Single white guy renting a pistol in Florida – most ranges are clamping down on that.
So, even more so now, we gotta take our non-gun friends to the range. Also, safely expose them to a firearm and give them the basics of operation prior to the range visit. I always taken an opportunity to let a friend examine and handle an unloaded pistol if they visit my place. It gives them an idea of the weight and balances they are dealing with. Of course a range visit is required to fire the thing. Once they let some bullets fly though, they usually get hooked. Their biggest fear, I’ve found, is usually the recoil. Most people think a pistol is going to knock their hand off, or a rifle will knock them on their butt. Thank you Hollywood. Little do they know that you can shoot a well-designed pistol or rifle all day with little to no discomfort.
In my defense, my reluctance to get her shooting was less about her being a lib and had more to do with her strong statements about hating guns. I simply never imagined she’d want to. I should have offered.
You are right that Hollywood can ruin / has ruined people’s ideas of what shooting is and can be. Add to that those asinine videos on youtube that show guys handing a new shooter a gun with zero instruction, then just laugh when the shooter gets hurt or scared.
I do have one friend now that “hates guns.” Perhaps an invitation is in order.
Hollywood goes both ways on the operation of guns… make them scary and unwanted, yet give that hypocrite actor playing Rambo a full auto, and he can fire that thing all day non-stop one handed and hit his target every shot.
Scary? Only if you believe the same people who make any car that flips,crashes, etc explode either immediately or within a few seconds.
We know better on that last part too. ANY full-auto that isn’t mounted WILL start to push you backwards with all the recoil… it’s just physics. Hit a target that consistently while draining a belt or magazine in a single trigger squeeze, impossible for the “pros” even. Mounted will have the better accuracy, but it still isn’t perfect.
One thing is clear though. Hollywood has yet to really paint a picture of a gun being a good thing. Yeah, they sometimes use them to kill the purveyors of torture, abuse, and/or horrors, but overall…
Being mugged didn’t do the trick for me. It was a few years later, when a friend was murdered in a home invasion. It should not take events that extreme to see the light on this issue. Group think can be a very difficult thing to overcome.
I have a lot of family members and a few friends (mostly back east) that are very anti-civilian gun ownership. I have tried to convey my personal (admittedly emotional) feelings of helplessness that led me from being an average pro-gun rights person to a single-issue 2A voter. I always try to find a story (this works because I know them personally) that they have told me where they convey the feeling of absolute and utter helplessness. Whether it’s the loss of a friend/family member or stopping at a car accident, I try to transfer their experience of helplessness to a home invasion scenario where their spouse or kids are now the center of that helpless feeling. The key is to know your audience. I had thrown facts and figures out for years with no results, but I’ve softened more anti-gun attitudes with these conversations that with any other approach.
“Show me a young Conservative and I’ll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I’ll show you someone with no brains.”
― Winston Churchill
“You shouldn’t tweet and drive.” – Abraham Lincoln.
That quote is as real as the one you just posted.
Eight of the first ten (not Wikipedia) sites returned by Yahoo Search on this quote state that it can be attributed to Winston Churchill. The other two claim that he may or may not have said it, but some form of the quote was probably original to someone else and paraphrased by Churchill. The most common variation: “If you are conservative before you are 30 you have no heart, if you are Liberal after 30 you have no brain.” Or similar words to the same effect.
Claiming that the quote may be mis-attributed to Winston Churchill, however, does not effectively challenge its truth or the concept.
At any rate, 8 to 2 in favor hardly justifies a blanket rejection of its authenticity, unless you have personal, first hand information that the attribution is unfounded, in which case I think Wikipedia wants to hear from you and see you proof.
Interesting Troll attempt, however.
..I grew up in a family of guns..legal and illegal…but I never had to think about this subject..as I listened in school and understood the meaning of the 2nd Amendment …everything else was simply confirmation…
RJ O’Guillory
Author-
Webster Groves – The Life of an Insane Family
While in grade school in the mid 90’s to early 2000’s the majority of my history teachers actually taught that the 2nd amendment was in part there to allow us to have another revolution if need be. I guess I was just lucky.
I was beaten pretty badly by 4 men for being gay and then left on the side of the road for 40something minutes by homophobic cops as they tried to put the blame on me while begging them for an ambulance and water.
Needless to say, I’ve lost a lot of faith in many things that day. *Including gun control. I bought my 1st pistol from the next day, an old Makarov because it was cheap and I was broke, and exploded from there. That Makarov is still with me, and I still carry it to this day, lol. Love it.
Great example! It still boggles my mind how persecuted groups in society are often vociferously anti-gun. Nice choice on the mak, I personally love my cz82 and have faith in the hornady hp rounds it carries.
Thanks for sharing that.
I was mugged.
By Federal, FICA, Medicare, NY State, and NY City property tax, among others.
I think a lot of people who come through the public school system lean left. For me things started changing when I decided to make up my mind on guns I had better know what i’m talking about, so I bought an XD in .45 and learned to shoot it. Then I started going through the data. I downloaded the homicide and violent crime statistics from the FBI website, I got annual population data and put them both into excell and immediately became angry over having been lied to about the effectiveness of the ’94 AWB. I also mistakenly believed Glock started being imported in ’89 which is when the steady rise in crime in the 80’s started to level off before starting the decline we are still experiencing.
The other topic that has changed my mind is economics. Investigating the claims surrounding the Great Depression has helped change my mind on centralized gov’t control in general.
That’s the “road to Damascus conversion” I’ve witnessed so often. It shifts liberal to conservative and conservative to libertarian. I don’t often see those conversions going the other way and, in my opinion, that hints at fundamental flaws somewhere with liberalism.
Me three; by 5 or 6 guys. I didn’t have the time to do a proper head count, before I was knocked out, and my head hit the pavement. Luckily, my ear cushioned the shock a bit. The ears stopped matching on that night.
I had been carrying a – some of you will love this – Jennings .22. I worked at a metro daily newspaper, and the brass promised strong action of anyone got caught with a gat in his locked. (And also, I had been busted for CC – on the back fire escape to my apartment. All this at an ultra-“conservative” paper!
As Ron White says, “I don’t know how many of them it was gonna take to kick my ass, but I know how many they were gonna use.”
I guess it’s true that a conservative is just a liberal who’s been mugged by reality (or just literally mugged).
Guv… you have no idea.
An excellent letter.
I too used to be a ” oppressor of Isrealites” before seeing the light. I think the important point to remember is that gun control isn’t a movement, it’s a social construct.
Just like prayer throughout the day in Islamic nations, rabid support for the end of the RKBA is not based on law or activism.It’s based on a social belief that gun restrictions are just a Good Idea, and the world will be a better place once the unenlightened folk in so called flyover country realize it.
A well written and emotional work. In this I’m pleased you came over to our side, true, and hope that it wouldn’t take violence upon anyone to make them see the light.
Guns are killing innocent people every day… yeah, that sounds about right.
Glad you’re writing for the right team now.
Glad you see the light
”In the pioneer days, guns provided protection: the nearest officer of the law was often miles away.”
Ah, the more things change the more they stay the same, or get worse. Happy that you realised that this statement is true no matter what time you set it in.
”In modern times, guns provide protection: the nearest officer of the law is often miles away. Will also take at least 20 minutes to respond and actually has no legal obligation to even show up.”
Glad to have you, RF.
For what its worth, I was disturbingly pro-gun while attending UW-Wisconsin Madison. I tried to write a very pro-gun paper for a Sociology class, but had a hell of a time finding pro gun stats. I still pretty much had to search with the flippin’ Dewey Decimal system. Most of the bogus gun stats were still on the books. I got a C on that paper.
Today, I help my stepson write pro-gun polemics and hand my stepdaughter pro-gun political cartoons. The anti-gun teachers have fits. It is a sad state of affairs when the majority of academia today is unable to face truth which conflicts with how they want to see the world.
Still, life is short. You might as well tell it like it is.
When did you graduate? Lakeshore, South East, or Private? Go Bucky!
Class of 81, started at 551 W Mifflin street in 73.
We didn’t go to the party, the party came to us.
BS Econ and like all other subjects in Madison, UW aint the University of Chcago.
Graduated in ’99 with majors in Sociology, Zoology, and Biological aspects of conservation. I stayed in Lakeshore (can’t remember which dorm) for my freshmen year only.
Sorry for the late response.
I helped my son pen pro gun and pro Constitution papers and speeches. He frequently got into debates with one of his HS history teachers. Even though he was polite and civil, at one point he got lunch detention. I had to threaten the school with getting Liberty Counsel involved. We finally pulled him out and home schooled him.
HAH! Dewey Decibel. You just dated yourself!! (I worked in a university library for five pretty pleasant years. A very easy job, until the directorship changed.
HAH! Dewey DECIMAL. I must be hard of hearing. ;D
It would be nice if the world was all good people. Until then my gun stays. I as well grew up that way. I w also wish ALL political folks Really cared about the country and not their pockets. Until one comes along I will keep hoarding ammunition.
We all change. Only fools and politicians (not a mutually exclusive set) demand that people’s views and positions on issues stay stubbornly and ignorantly fixed throughout their entire lifetimes. As if we can’t change our minds from the direct benefit or our own personal experiences, the viewpoints of others, or evidence and research.
I’m grateful that people can change their minds. In fact, our battle as gun rights advocates would be entirely pointless if we lived in a world of static, immovable viewpoints.
That letter could have been published yesterday. The more things change, the more they stay the same…
Welcome to the dark side.
I grew up in southern calfornia, my parents had no real politics that I was ever aware of. My dad and I would take his fathers old .22 and 12 guage out once a year or so. I also shot a little pellet gun in the backyard, probably a felony now (and back then too) but the topic of guns and crime was so far removed from our white upper middle class LA suburb, it just never came up. Until the riots of course, then the neighborhood turned into an armed camp…
I joined the military after 9/11 like a lot of men my age, but my passive socal liberalism stuck with me for the most part.
All that changed after my discharge and we moved back to LA. I wanted to buy an AR15 like the kind I had used in service. I figured, no problem I’ll just go down to the gun store and buy one…. Well, I got an earful. And I instantly got politics. My first question was, ‘who did this and why?’
That was four or five years ago. I vote in every election, am an NRA life member and have been fighting the good fight just about every day since.
And I got my AR15.
Jim Benson was a Lib, until he was mugged
David Horowitz was a Radical Communist Revolutionary, the son of Devoted Communists who did legal work in support of the Black Panthers and SDS, until his secretary was murdered by the PBs to cover-up another murder. He now denounces them (http://www.frontpagemag.com/) for what they are.
There are many other sons of Communists that have seen the reality of The Left but lack the courage to make the break for freedom.
I have been pro gun rights my entire life, but I was very liberal on many issues until reality hit, getting a job and seeing how much I was paying in taxes, and having to deal with government bureaucrats. At age 54 I am realizing that much of the libertarian philosophy makes more sense than big government statism.
At least the Panthers were vehemently pro-armed resistance. Who could blame them, with the cops and FBI bumping off their officers?
Robert – thank you for the testimony – it is indeed encouraging to see how a rational person can change their mind on what is a very emotional issue for many people. If you don’t mind a bit of post-facto deconstruction of your earlier persona, your letter graphically demonstrates how the anti-gun side tends to speak in terms of emotional hyperbole. I have excerpted the key phrases from your letter:
“… children have been brutally cut down by well equipped criminals and careless gun owners… the ever-present gun … Guns are killing innocent people every day … these days of “frontier justice” are over… the explosive force of a deadly weapon … ridding society of these cheap, plentiful handgun … loyal member of the fiercely conservative John Birch Society … McDonald’s fanaticism on the issue … McDonald lobbied violently against any legislative gun reform … found to have stockpiled some 200 guns … a philosophy of paranoia …the gun lobby argues … a small group of vociferous people are intimidating our elected officials … life-saving laws … doubt the reasoning of the mighty gun lobby… the ravings of those who cause the deaths of our loved ones through their ignorance … slaughter daily approaches out doorsteps… an obligation, already written in the blood of those needlessly killed … ”
It is difficult to conduct a rational discussion on the issue with people who approach it in that kind of emotional manner. You are evidence, however, that rational people can be persuaded by a rational approach. Don’t be too embarrassed by your sophomore writings – I would hate to see any of my “environmental crisis” writing surface from my sophomore year in college.
Fortunately for my gun collection, I was a “Person of the Gun” even then – member of my high school rifle team, member of the ROTC rifle team in college, and bought a Ruger 10/22 THROUGH THE MAIL – shipped to my dorm room – in 1967. Amazingly enough, I never went berserk and killed anyone with that gun! Even though I frequently carried it across campus – slung from my shoulder – on my way to the woods to go plinking. A different world, pre-’68 GCA. On the plus side, I never expected to be able to buy any one of hundreds of highly improved civilian versions of the M-14s and M-16s from my Army days.
I’m similar to you RF, only I grew up in a liberal household that kept guns (primarily hunting shotguns). I used to be for “reasonable” gun control as long as it didn’t interfere with my choice and use of shotguns for duck, goose, pheasant and clay shooting.
I saw the light fairly recently when I started reading your blog and a few others, after Sandyhook and IL passed the CCW law.
Now I’m firmly entranced in the “shall not be infringed” camp.
changeable folks change, in either direction, back and forth.
Let’s do the check list…
1. Use the word “sensible” and gun control in the same sentence. – Check
2. Say that America has a long history of gun ownership, BUT… – Check
3. Call your political opponents fanatics – Check
4. Call for registration – Check
5. Use of hyperbole (Slaughter at our doorsteps) – Check
Mrs. Watts would be proud!! Glad you are on our side now!
By the way, I used to be a socialist liberal myself =(
I am now a proud, libertarian leaning, conservative, capitalist, pro-2A Texan!
Robert, thank you for sharing this – it’s useful, I think, to see how people’s viewpoints change, because this points to how we might be able to change others’ minds about this issue.
As for me, I grew up in a country where guns were not part of my day-to-day reality. Then I was the victim of a knifepoint rape and (a few years later) a home invasion robbery and attempted rape at gunpoint. Now, when I teach firearms skills for women, I tell them: “I carry a gun because I know how long it takes the police to respond to a 911 call, and I know from bitter firsthand experience exactly how badly someone can hurt me in that much time.” And I tell them how, even now (some 25 years later) I still see the face of the man who raped me when I close my eyes.
I survived, mostly by luck. I carry a gun because I don’t ever again want luck to be the only tool in my toolbelt.
Guh. Glad you made through, Tammy. Hell of a story.
Thanks. I wish my story was unusual, but (apart, perhaps from my response to it) it’s dreadfully common.
What strikes me about your story is that the gun grabbers would say you’re being irrationally controlled by your fear, and it is sad that you’ve been driven to guns in order to assuage your uncontrollable fear. And yet they peddle fear in their gun control arguments.
Good for you.
You’re absolutely right, and yet the fact that violent crime has happened to me twice already would suggest that I’m not being irrational at all. 🙂 This is the paradox of the anti-gun crowd: They seem to espouse the attitude that “I can’t bring myself to make the choice not to be a victim, and the only way I can feel okay with that choice is to consign everyone else to victimhood as well, because then everyone has an equal chance of being a victim and so it’s FAIR.” This, obviously, is not my attitude.
Thanks for your comment!
“I can’t bring myself to make the choice not to be a victim, and the only way I can feel okay with that choice is to consign everyone else to victimhood as well, because then everyone has an equal chance of being a victim and so it’s FAIR.”
That is one of the most concisely accurate descriptions I’ve read in long time.
+1
Dang. You seemed to have endured way more than your fair share of the violent crime scene. Glad you made it to the other side.
Thank you for voluntarily reliving such painful events to impress upon others the importance of defending themselves. It’s a lot harder to have a head-in-the-sand attitude about being raped when confronted with someone who has survived it.
Indeed. And that’s one of the positive things that came out of my experiences for me: They permanently shattered any ability I had to delude myself into thinking it could never happen to me, and they ignited the strong desire to be better prepared and trained in the future. I cannot, of course, guarantee I will never be the victim of a violent crime again, but I can work to reduce the chance of that as much as possible, and I CAN guarantee that I will never again be helpless. I might defend myself and my loved ones and lose, but I never again want to be in a place where passive submission and surrender are the only choice available to me.
Thanks for your comment!
“I survived, mostly by luck. I carry a gun because I don’t ever again want luck to be the only tool in my toolbelt.”
That line’s a keeper. I use something similar in consulting with organizations: “If you don’t know why you think what you are doing will work, you’ll at best succeed by accident (dumb luck – ed).”
That’s the rub, isn’t it? The anti-gun crowd likes to say, “well, I don’t carry a gun, and I’ve never been [insert violent crime of choice]”. Which is well and good until you ARE a victim of that and (if you survive) your world-view comes tumbling down around you.
To my mind, luck is far too capricious and uncertain a mistress to depend on. She enabled me to survive two violent encounters with predators and escape with my life (though not unscarred by the experience.) I’m not so foolhardy, nor as naive, as to believe I can count on the same outcome in the future.
Or, as we like to say…”Luck favors the prepared.”
Thanks for sharing your story.
To my mind, luck is far too capricious and uncertain a mistress to depend on. She enabled me to survive two violent encounters with predators and escape with my life (though not unscarred by the experience.) I’m not so foolhardy, nor as naive, as to believe I can count on the same outcome in the future.
So much truth here.
You won’t get away from an encounter with predators unscarred, but you may get away. You don’t entirely control whether you’ll encounter predators or not. What you choose to do before and during the encounter, can influence, but not determine the outcome. Huge stakes, some influence, no absolute control – that’s pretty uncomfortable. Also, this is part of being a grown-up: decisions you make always cost you something, have some influence, but never absolute control, and the stakes are pretty high.
I wonder sometimes how much objection to “guns” (or other exercisable powers) is really because in thoughtfully grasping this power you admit:
– There is evil, which may harm you.
– You can do something to better the odds.
– But you can’t protect yourself absolutely.
– Taking care of yourself sometimes involves terrible choices.
They don’t object to your having a gun, really. They object to the crack your having a gun puts in their fantasy world of safety, passivity, and perfect solutions.
“Agency”, that magic word of the empowerment police, comes with responsibility – for yourself and for what you do to others. Also for what you don’t do. Guns and other tools amplify your agency. So the agency-mongers run. Having agency vs. talking about it is admitting a terrible purpose – to have some influence in a world less perfect than you would like it to be.
You have to own your own power, said Joseph Campbell. This is part of the transition found in Hero’s Journey myths. A youth, full of bravado and pretend power learned of their real power, and the terrible consequences possible in wielding, or not wielding it. On the hero’s journey, you leave your old world behind not because it has changed, but because you have.
Pleas pardon my forwardness in saying so, but you’re kind of a hero, Tammy.
Normalcy bias. What an incredible belief system. My dad was a bit like that – the fact that nothing bad had ever happened to him was proof that it never would/could. I miss him.
Thanks, Jim (and the others who commented on this). I don’t consider myself heroic, per se, though I appreciate the sentiment.
I think that it’s absolutely true that anti-gun folks “object to the crack your having a gun puts in their fantasy world of safety, passivity, and perfect solutions.” This is also, I think, at the root of a lot of the “blame the victim” stuff that gets hurled around – if someone can convince themselves that the victim is to blame for her own suffering, they can convince themselves that “I would never go out after dark/in a short dress/to a party where people are getting drunk/etc., so therefore I’m safe.” Which can be a comforting thought to those who aren’t willing to take ownership of their own lives and safety, I suppose. But as my dad says, “no matter what we want, wish, feel or believe to be true, at the end of the day reality generally wins.”
I know carrying a firearm doesn’t magically guarantee that nothing bad will ever happen to me again. It doesn’t even guarantee, if I should be facing a violent predator again in the future, that I’ll escape unharmed. What it DOES do is tip the balance a bit more in my favor, and give me one more choice in that desperate moment where running out of choices means injury, trauma, or death. I can’t guarantee I won’t ever be hurt again, but I can guarantee that the next predator to make the attempt won’t find helpless, passive prey.
And of course, that mindset does just as much as my M&P to help reduce the likelihood that I’ll be in that place again.
“It’s one more last resort, nothing more.”
Or: “So I can survive until the police get there”
Of course if they don’t want to listen, they don’t’ want to listen.
Conversion stories are their own genre. Here’s one about guns that stirred thing up a long time ago:
A Letter to the Editor of Esquire Magazine
from Chip Elliott
http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=3499
RF could have written that.
In political conversion stories, add Thomas Sowell, who was one of the few Marxists who had actually read Marx, and P. J. O’Rourke who is funnier about it than most.
Thomas Sowell is a great example of someone who actually wanted to find the answer for a better quality of life and was humble enough to admit he was wrong about his initial world view. Most people who find out they are wrong just double down, change the subject and name call.
Thomas Sowell is a great example of someone who actually wanted to find the answer for a better quality of life and was humble enough to admit he was wrong about his initial world view.
Oddly, people who cannot be convinced have a habit of announcing that they cannot be convinced.
“You cannot convince me…”
“Nothing you say will make me…”
“I’ll never…”
Now that I’ve learned to notice these announcements, I can make them the point:
“Really? So, you’re not open to evidence or argument? OK, moving on.”
“Really? So, what would convince you?”
“Really? So, if not by argument or evidence, how’d you come to believe what you do?”
“Really? So, you’ve decided to dismiss me as a human being, and anything I might say? OK, moving on.”
“Really? So, why are we having this conversation? I was minding my own business until you brought it up.”
This gets them to name their game if they want to keep playing. Better, it plays to the audience – showing that what’s going on isn’t really a conversation, or even a debate, but a ritual shaming. Best, most people observe their own actions, and like to think of themselves as reasonable, kind, and fair. Their inner auditor is an audience too.
When someone is doing something insane you can always try appealing to their inner auditor. Look right at them, calmly, and ask as if you really want to know: “What are you doing?”
“Oddly, people who cannot be convinced have a habit of announcing that they cannot be convinced.”
Very true. I see the same thing with AR’s and standard cap mag arguments. I usually ask if they think first responders should have access to such tools which is usually a “yes”. I then point out that during a home invasion, I’m the first responder.
Thanks for the link btw.. I really liked that article.
Thanks for the link btw.. I really liked that article.
You are welcome. Here’s a couple more from Seraphic Secret:
http://www.seraphicpress.com/stalked-girl-without-a-gun/
http://www.seraphicpress.com/jew-without-a-gun/
He’s a good writer. The fact that his background will totally tweak a couple of trolls is just a bonus.
“Only fools… demand that people’s views and positions on issues stay stubbornly and ignorantly fixed throughout their entire lifetimes.”
Well, consider me a fool then. My view on gun ownership and the 2A (I support) has remained fixed for 62 years so far. I anticipate that it will remain so fixed for my remaining years.
You write much gooder now.
What I think would be really interesting to read is:
– what went through your mind as the idea of a “public mandate” (the “will of the majority”) for gun control dissolved
– what went through your mind as your perception and understanding of a “stockpile of 200 guns” and a “philosophy of paranoia” evolved and transformed into what you understand and believe today
– what went through your mind as you saw past the intellectually lazy idea that the cause of “gun violence is a “circular relationship” in which “an increase in one results in an increase in the other”
– what went through your mind as you gained depth of understanding and insight into the FBI statistics you cite and what they do and do not reveal
– what went through your mind as your perception and opinion of the “powerful gun lobby” and “vociferous few” changed
Nice to see that the gun-grabbers’ line of thinking hasn’t changed in 35 years. At least our defense has changed from communist invasion to civil liberty.
Great post. This is precisely why we as 2A supporters need to welcome all responsible people who express interest in the sport and our rights. For instance dismissing someone because they are “liberal” could mean turning someone away who would have grown into a passionate 2A supporter. Minds change and often the most passionate and effective advocates are those who used to be on the other side.
The right to bear arms was written into our Constitution to give Americans tangible proof that they were free men.:
———————————————————-
This is why you were able to make the transition to the pro-gun side. You understood something inherent, that a free people by definition have the right to keep and bear arms. Power lies with the people, if they cannot be armed, from where does the Government derive rightful power to use force?
What you objected to was HOW firearms were used, specifically how their use was presented in the media. You were bombarded with false stats that would lead one to conclude that the mere presence of firearms was dangerous.
After coming to the understanding that these stats are wrong, and that there is far better supported and peer reviewed research showing the benefits to safety from firearm ownership, it was easy to transition to the Pro-Gun side, since it was evidence that created your position.
That is not the case with a great many anti-gun people. To them, firearms are in and of themselves dangerous. The use of force is NEVER acceptable. To them, if you had to kill 2 people to save your life from them, this is inherently evil, because your life isn’t worth 2 lives. In fact, your life is not worth even 1 of the lives of attackers.
They would rather a women be raped that kill her attacker, the more extreme would rather the women be raped than even HARM the rapist.
The chasm between why you supported Gun Control and why they support Gun Control makes the Grand Canyon looks like a crack in the sidewalk.
The right to bear arms was written into our Constitution to give Americans tangible proof that they were free men.
I noticed this line too. I interpreted it that even though he was about to dismiss the necessity of the measure, he still was aware on some level that the right of self-defense existed outside the Constitution, it was only written in there to provide proof and protection.
The chink in the armor, perhaps?
When one opens his mind to logic, reason, and common sense, after having it closed for so long, an epiphany is the inevitable result.
Glad you had yours, Robert.
I would have written something a lot like that if I had been writing letters to the editor in the early ’90s.
I grew up in a religious household in a conservative, religious area, and guns were everywhere — but they were unremarkable things. Tools, nothing more. My dad didn’t really care for guns or shooting, but he had a .22 in the closet because it was a tool of rural life (used as such only once, when my brother had to put a geriatric, paralyzed horse out of its misery a couple of years ago; after which it went right back into the closet).
Still, in the absence of any other information, I absorbed the anti-gun zeitgeist of the late ’80s and early ’90s. I didn’t vote for Clinton, but when his “assault weapons” ban came around I scoffed at my coworkers who were rushing out to buy theirs before they were banned. Why did anyone need those things? It only made sense that the government should step in to protect us from the plague guns represented.
Time has a way of changing things.
I got married and started a family, and 9/11 kick-started a new line of thought about government, society, and who really protects whom. Eventually I came back around to that old idea that every household should own a rifle, just in case. And I started thinking about how much fun the rifle range had been in Boy Scouts all those years ago. And my son was approaching scouting age, and I was thinking gun safety and basic marksmanship were heritage skills that every American should learn. And one day I found myself in the local sporting goods store with time to kill and money in my pocket. I interrogated the guy at the gun counter for a few minutes and walked out the proud owner of a Marlin Model 60.
I drove my son out to some nearby national forest land, distilled the Four Rules down to two, helped him take aim at a pop can, and watched his eyes light up when he hit his target. My eyes lit up, too.
And now here we are.
I was young and stupid once too, but never anti-gun, just not proactive like now. Never had that kind of hoplophobic family influence
Experience IS the mother of all teachers.
I was pro-gun from the very first time I shot one. I think I was about eight, at a carnival-style shooting gallery in Coney Island, popping .22 shorts at clay pipes and little steel ducks. No politics, just fun.
Twenty years later, I was chatting up a neighbor while we were walking our dogs. We both liked rifles, but he said he hated handguns. I asked why. He said “because the only purpose for handguns is killing people.” A cop drove by just about that time and my neighbor missed the irony.
Wow. WW I, WWII, Civil War, Viet-nam, Gulf War, you name it, not a rifle to be found.
“No politics, just fun.”
That’s how my father taught my brother and I around age 12.
Same here. Coney Island boardwalk at about the same age.
I was raised in a Fudd household. Even given a 20 gauge single shot as a kid. But handguns were veiwed a little dimly. My brother bought a .22 revolver, a move my mom only accepted because it was .22. A few years later I tried to get her to buy me a .380 Sig that cost aprox a song and a dance and she wouldn’t. I was 19 at the time, and could legally own it, but not buy it.
My wife, on the other hand, grew up in a staunch 2A household, where both long guns and handguns were plentiful. She didn’t really push me towards owning more firearms, but when I made that turn, she lept there with me. The only argument we ever have on guns is “do we have the money?” and if the answer yes, we go get a new gun. We will be getting her a 10/22 sometime in the new few weeks.
My story is very similar, except I wish my wife used the “Do we have the money?” question more often…..
Larry McDonald was an American Hero was way ahead of his time.
Very well written, both the intro and the letter to the editor. Misguided and incorrect, but very well written.
I can see the Moms Demand Action (a wholly owned subsidiary of Mayors Against Illegal Guns) members that troll this site quoting your letter without bothering to mention the 4 paragraph introduction…
I thought of that. But reckoned it was worth the risk.
If they do attempt something along those lines, it simply will provide (more) concrete proof to point to and say “These people are full of shit.”
The hell you say Robert, lol. I made no secret of my past voting mistakes too. Now this pernicious pontificating poster is all in, Randy
I voted for Obama the first time. I regretted it within the first year, but at the time, I thought it was the best choice. By the way, all of my guns (save parts for the ARs I’m building) were acquired during his first term.
Oh, I want to note that I voted for Obama not because I was anti-gun, but for other reasons. As far as guns go, I’d define it as “positively disposed.” I had shot guns in the past (Boy Scouts, rentals at the gun range, etc.) and enjoyed it, but I didn’t grow up in a gun-owning household (my parents weren’t anti, they were more “don’t feel the need”), and I didn’t own a single firearm when I cast that vote. That all came later.
Okay, so you voted for a moron. I lived with one. I’d say you’re winning on points.
Based on your posts, I never would have guessed that – not in a hundred years.
You’ve heard the phrase “no one so devout as a convert,” right? Or at least, you get the idea behind it? Well, I’m not a convert like RF, I’ve always leaned conservative/Republican. But in that election, I was momentarily overtaken by… something else, and I’ve regretted it ever since. So, while “devout as a convert” doesn’t fit me, something like “having the conviction of a penitent man” probably fits quite well.
I have to admit that there was a while there that I liked what I heard, but luckily he set off my B.S. detector just ahead of the election. He said something along the lines of “We can come back if everyone works hard, if everyone gets their fair share.”
GETS. That, right there, snapped me out of the trance.
I told anyone who’d listen – and many who wouldn’t – “watch out for this guy; we don’t even know who the eff he IS.”
And we STILL don’t know who the eff he is. A guy with 27 Social Security numbers, not ONE from the state he says he was born in. A guy that not ONE of his classmates has ever come forward and said, “I knew him when…. Because apparently, no one did.
Well, if we are making confessions here I want to say I was anti-gun too. I can’t really blame my family, escaping from war, my dad getting shot (he survived) etc. made them anti-gun. At least now my parents tolerate firearms (they don’t like them but they tolerate them) while my brothers remain staunchly anti-gun. They try to call me out as being a wannabe “hero” just because I once said that I don’t believe the police are useful in preventing a crime (and because I was involved in a DKU).
RF,
I’m relatively new to this site (only been perusing it for a few months), but because of this article, I wanted to drop in and leave a note thanking you for putting this out there for all to see.
I actually tend to look up more to people who exercise enough humility to change ideological positions on an issue that they feel themselves to have been wrong on, than those who were right the entire time and haven’t changed. Not that I don’t respect members in both camps, but it truly is a humble act to change positions on a topic publicly, and open oneself up to the criticism from both the group they’re ‘leaving’ and the group they’re ‘joining’. Not many individuals exist, in my opinion, who would risk the public shame that could come from recanting a view they held.
It would be a better place overall if there were more people in positions of authority who had the humility to admit when they were wrong publicly.
I agree with that, for some reason I respect a bad person after they turn good more than I respect a person who was good their entire life (maybe because I am one of them?). Call me weird but at least I am honest.
@RF,
I think a worthy exercise now would be to, point by point, refute your letter, in your own words with the knowledge and wisdom you’ve gain over the past 23 years.
I wouldn’t recommend that, don’t push it. It is hard enough to face your lesser demons, facing them big time can mess you up (can also be rewarding).
Funny… about 20-some-odd years ago, I also wrote a letter to the editor (Time Magazine) calling for the ban of guns. Then I had an intruder come into my apartment at 4.00 am. That changed everything.
Time never published my letter / article. I don’t have it any longer, either. Gone into the ether with a very old computer (written on Lotus Word Pro, I think!).
My mother was vehemently anti-gun for a very long time (the reasons for which coalesce into a long and convoluted story which I won’t get into here).
After living a hard life as a struggling single mother of four (and a few dead-beat marriages along the way), she’s come to terms with the fact that she and she alone is responsible for her personal safety.
She recently went and got her pistol purchase permit and is saving up for her first handgun.. which will likely be a S&W Bodyguard .380 ’cause she’s got crazy tiny hands and isn’t much for recoil thanks to carpel tunnel. She also plans to eventually get her CCW, though I’ll try like Hell to convince her that purse carry is definitely not the way to go.
If she hasn’t already, try to get her to shoot the Bodyguard along with some other .380s before she pulls the trigger on a purchase. I shot nearly every .380 on the market before I bought my P238, and I’d rank the Bodyguard in the top two or three on a scale of “unpleasant to shoot.” If she’s only going to ever fire it in a moment of dire need, I suppose that’s OK, but if you think she’ll want to spend any time at the range with it, I don’t think she’ll like it.
If she wants a sub-9mm suggest the cz82 (my favorite) or the cz83. They aren’t huge and wont intimidate her, but they’ll absorb that recoil far better than the micro 380s.
RF,
What (if anything) do you think you could say to your younger self?
Is there a line of reasoning that could have swayed your former self? Or do you think that only experience could change him?
I think you’re right that this is a look into a mindset. Having actually been there, is there any way to reach them? not beat them over the head with facts, but actually reason with them?
I would debate me as I debate gun control advocates today. And take me to the range. And hope my Mom wouldn’t fancy me (e.g., Back to the Future).
I have never felt that way but I can understand how this could happen. You kind of blame your parents and their ideology. How about your peers? Did they hold your same beliefs?
My Dad was not into firearms, then again I had a Daisy BB gun at the age of seven, a 20 gauge Remington 1100 at age fourteen, and at age sixteen an NRA sticker on my first car back in 1971…..
What is it with Jews and always referring to the Holocaust. Yes, I know 6 million Jews were killed, but in a society were men are created equal…you are forgetting about the other 6 million that were killed in the camps. As RF pointed out, his father survived the war in camps. Well guess what, so did my grandmother and grandfather….they were not Jewish, but did experience the same torture that everyone else did.. You do not see me bringing it all the time nor did they ask for reparations like the Jews have received from the German Government.
Always raising the level of discourse…
Jews raise the specter of the Holocaust because it is a personal, generational, ethnic touchstone for them, and provides a justification for how they feel and how they act. In some ways it’s no different than other people saying “because I was mugged” or “because my friend was killed.” When asked “Why do you feel that way?” their answer will always include the attempted extermination of their entire people.
If I might ask, if they were not Jewish, why were your parents in the camps? What caused them to be selected? I realize some people were sent for “no reason,” but the vast majority were sent because they belonged to some population that had been selected for segregation. What population did they belong to, and do you not feel any solidarity with that population? Would they (your grandparents) have?
Robert was writing a post about his family experience. As a factual matter, he stated his father’s reason for owning a gun. Would it have made more sense not to state his father’s reason? How would keeping out that information have helped the post?
Was the grade an A- and not an A due to spelling issues?
“The will of the majority must be heard OBVER the ravings of those who cause the deaths of our loved ones through their ignorance. We can not stand mute while slaughter daily approaches OUT doorsteps.”
BTW, the latter half of that last sentence seems to be a justification for a well-armed populace.
Check out the picture. His original is typed or a printout. Likely he scanned it in and suffered a OCR/spellchecker fail.
After your hit piece about lucky gunner last year it’s blatantly obvious that you’re tied to gun control advocates.
What hit piece would that be? I went looking, couldn’t find it.
Awww… No two people are not on fire.
So, does this make you want to go back in time to kick your own ass?
If not, it should.
Yes. Yes it does.
High school, mid 1960’s. Suburb of Buffalo, NY. Joined rifle club, shot below the swimming pool. No one ever considered guns a problem. Many teachers were WWII vets. Guns were not a problem. Compeition was fun.
How many high schools have rifle clubs now? Public education has turned into a liberal indoctrination program, with wooly fuzzy headed thinking.
RF, I was going to reply to your question the other day about security at your kids school. Statistically, they will be hit by lightening before they are shot in a school. Your MAIN worry should be the “education” they are receiving because it’s not education, it’s indoctrination. Get them out of public schools, now.
In 1979, I spoke with visiting older German relatives about the holocaust and asked if there was nothing that could have been done. Their answer was “You kept your mouth shut or you were taken away. THEY HAD ALL THE GUNS”. Case closed
Raised in a liberal household. Parents, especially mother, are still ravenously lefty.
I got out on my own, learned a few things about the world. I still love my family, but we no longer have the same politics. I’ve become a moderate conservative (much to my mother’s horror – Dad doesn’t much seem to care), and frequently get to be Devil’s Advocate at family gatherings.
Yay.
It’s not so much that individuals can’t see the error of their liberal ways on gun control and change their opinions. It’s that the shift towards tyranny and a police state has far too much momentum for individual conversions alone. In my opinion, at this late hour such an approach is really a butterfly effect in hurricane winds. It’s good that people engage in those “changing the hearts and minds” efforts but I’m clearly not the one to do it. We need our missionaries but the enemy is charging the line in full force. It’s an all out assault; a push against Liberty of massive proportions. I’m not equipped to try changing the opinions of that foot soldier charging towards me, loaded for bear; my demise fixed firmly in his heart and mind. No, my intention is set… defend as if my life depends on it… because it does.
I can’t say I was ever anti-gun, having once asked my father when I was 10 or 11 if a self-defense killing was a sin; he said no. However, I was muddled outside the basics since I grew up in a house that wasn’t anti-gun, but saw no need for them.
The first time I heard of a gun “buyback” I thought it was nice since the story came out of crime-ridden Chicago and it was in exchange for toys. I was 12, forgive me.
When Columbine happened, I was quick to blame the shooters and not guns or computer games. I only heard of the AWB when it expired, thought it was useless once I learned what it really banned.
I shot my first guns 3+ years ago and enjoyed it, but wanted some after moving to a high crime city a couple years before that and became a burglary victim in the intervening time. Sandy Hook galvanized my 2A support, made me regret ever voting for the president, and shifted my views more to a mix of libertarian and conservative.
It’s really nice to be able to grow as a person.
Guess I was ahead of the curve, I never really bought into gun control wholesale. I was raised fairly conservative politically and was around guns (family of farmers) all the time, though I rarely actually used them. My folks had reservations about how mature I was when it came to handling firearms so they didn’t really encourage me to get into it, though I wasn’t some “at risk” problem child or whatever they call it these days. It wasn’t until about 4-5 years ago that the bug REALLY bit.
Prior to that I considered guns kind of a fringe interest, since I didn’t hunt or trap or live in a big bad city I didn’t see much need for one. And I was on the fence about evil black rifles and the like being for sale to civvies during my college years… that phase promptly ended after an afternoon spent with a Saiga .308. Awesome fun. Now I’ve got a (relatively modest) collection, a range membership and am gearing up to fight the SAFE Act in 2014.
My political opinions have drifted from pretty hard right to center-right to moderate libertarian over the years. The last politician I voted for that ended up being anti gun was Obama (2008 was a weird year) and have not repeated that mistake since.
RF you were dyed in the wool. What happened? Did you have a defining moment? A trip to the range?
I grew up with guns around all my life. My mother’s second husband was a gunsmith. Guns were no big deal. Fascinating tools for hunting, target practice, and self defense. I shot my first 45 cal revolver when I was around 8 or 9 on my Great Granddad’s farm. That was scary! But of course I was only little and the revolver was huge. I never purchased a firearm; they were always given to me. My Mother’s third husband, my ‘Dad’, gave me a Browning 9mm when I left home at 19. I did a lot of traveling around the state and he didn’t feel comfortable with me running around without some sort of ‘big stick’; he was a Marine, after all. I later received a Remington 12ga pump to hunt birds. I never had a problem with gun ownership. It was always the people that was the worry.
I lived in Australia for over 10 years….no gun. I did get a chance to shoot some kangaroos though; a story for another day. But the fact that such a big deal was placed on the ‘tool’ seemed so ridiculous to me. It didn’t stop the killings, muggings, or any crime for that matter.
When I returned home I found that there wasn’t a ban on the AR-15 and they were a lot cheaper than they were in the ’80s when I worked for RSR Wholesale. I had a lot more enjoyment out of shooting that than any 22cal in the past.
No. Guns are not the problem in this country. The crazy, misguided people are.
-rh
Never heard of Handgun Alert. Did this group evolve in Handgun Control, Inc.? Merge later? Or is this a group I’ve never heard of? I like to keep up history of gun control especially in US. Those who do not study the past …..
Good article.
Thanks
Try living in Kommieforina home of the delusional and less than bright Leftists. We’re being mugged, or far worse, by our state AG and the insane and none too bright Representatives, Senators and local Pols.
Robert: Have you ever heard of JPFO, Inc. “America’s Aggressive Civil Rights Organization”
at http://www.jpfo.org. Also, JPFO’s special 1992 report titled: “Dial 911 and Die!” As a Second
Amendment activist, gun owner, native Oregonian (I was born in Klamath Falls, Oregon
in Nov. 1956, grew up at Midland along Highway 97 8 miles south, and now reside in
Ashland) I grew up around firearms and shooting. Thus I endorse and support not only
JPFO, Inc. but likewise The John Birch Society in Appleton, Wisconsin. See http://www.jbs.org
and http://www.thenewamerican.com, respectively. Also, the Constituiton Party of Oregon at
http://www.constitutionpartyoregon.net.
Aside from this firearms, including handguns in proper hands, save innocent lives. I
likewise endorse women’s safety too. Consider Paxton Quigley’s “Armed And Female:
Taking Control” (2010). Thanks for allowing me to express my sentiments, views, and
feelings here. Sincerely, James A. “Jim” Farmer Ashland, Oregon
Re: Liberals
Not all liberals are anti-2A. See the website, The Liberal Gun Club, http://www.theliberalgunclub.com
Please tell me it has nothing to do with Thom Hartman.
“…the Center for the Study and Prevention of Handgun Violence (in 1978), the vast majority of the American public favors federal registration of handguns. The reports goes on to reveal that 74% of the public favors registration of all guns in civilian hands”
These “studies” are conducted in cities. Cities are where clumps of people live. Cities are often left-leaning. It’s EASY to get a study to promote the gun-grabbing agenda because you conduct polls in a city where most people are liberal. Move out of those cluster-f-cks and you find real Americans who know the value/importance of the Second Amendment.
The studies are usually conducted by randomly calling people. And yes, people who live in large cities end up answering those polls more often, but that’s because more people live in large cities.
My brain hurts from reading that.
I’m not big on labels, and I think it only divides the general gun owning public when we get into arguments and start branding people liberal or democrat. We’ve got to get past that so we can figure out how to overcome the fact that the anti-gun side says “compromise” but in their dictionary it means “capitulation”. I’m all for a reasonable discussion, as long as you don’t expect me to blindly surrender my rights to your fears.
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