By LC Judas
Those who wish to disarm the civilian populace and remove their rights to resist authority or defend themselves on equal ground with any opponent do not fully consider the role of cops in this utopian society of unarmed civilians. Police are not infallible engines of justice. We are people too and we are just as flawed as the civilian inside . . .
No populace that removes the ability of the civilian to arm themselves as they see fit retains a non corrupt agency to enforce its laws. Cops are not voted in or out of office. Bad cops take years to flush out. Internal Affairs does a woefully inadequate job of protecting the populace from bad guys with badges.
Cops do bad things and make mistakes. Without the prospect of being deposed by the civilians they protect, they prey on them just like the criminals they supposedly protect them from. All powerful police in other countries are rife with corruption and there’s no reason to take away the rights of out citizens “for our own good.”
There are over 80 million gun owners and infringing their rights will not stop criminals unless you are acting upon the assumption that the American gun owner is a criminal. Those things aside, I’m going to be honest and mention a few things you only hear in the field from fellow officers.
Some of us wish suspects would get out of line. What’s further is police brutality covers excesses on use of force but knocking your head on the car door isn’t counted if its an accident.
Some of us aren’t good shots.
Some of us take up the profession because its empowering.
Some of us aren’t morally the best and can be tempted.
Most of us care about who we protect but would rather go home than take a bullet for anyone.
It sounds like common sense and you may not be a stranger to it, but add that to a disarmed populace and you create the victim-rich environment that the human predator loves. Most crimes are of opportunity and by taking away weapons from civilians you create opportunity for those who are just as fallible as the criminals they put away. Humanity is imperfect and empowering one class of people is inequality at its finest.
Separate is not equal. Do not create a double standard for citizens of this country. It only makes the ideal harder to achieve and defeats the goal you are working towards. Police and law enforcement as an institution are a great concept but nothing without true checks and balances is perfect.
LC Judas is an active duty police officer.
Very sobering.
I don’t like it anymore than you do and it is not emphasized enough until cops like Dorner go off the reservation and do as they like with the resources we have. The fact is most of us do well and mean well but humans aren’t 100% anything so giving any group 100% power is a mistake and not what the Founding Fathers of this country intended.
I’m glad I made you think.
Dorner is a true American hero.
Cops do bad things and make mistakes.
When a civilian does something “bad” or makes a mistake they’re called a criminal.
There are over 80 million gun owners and infringing their rights will not stop criminals unless you are acting upon the assumption that the American gun owner is a criminal… Do not create a double standard for citizens of this country.
LC Judas, have you enforced this double standard? How many guns have you ‘gotten off the street’? How many Americans have you turned in to criminal for no other reason that they were carrying a firearm? Where in the constitution does it say a felon isnt allowed to own a firearm? Where in 2A does it state that a permit is required to carry? Where does it state that a firearm requires a serial number? How is whatever law immune from the supremacy clause in the constitution?
Dorner is a murdering douche. He couldn’t handle the pressure of his life and murdered an innocent woman and her fiance to get back at people who “wronged” him.
I don’t understand why you are attacking this guy. You don’t know his past or what types of arrest he has done. I also don’t think it’s fair of you to blame him for every 2A infringement. I will be the first to admit I don’t trust cops but I also realize there are some good ones out there. LC Judas is just being brutally honest and I respect him for that.
Sorry, Matt, I can’t concur that Dorner is “a true American hero.” By me, true heroes don’t with malice aforethought hurt/kill those who have caused them no harm, as Dorner seems to have done in terminating Monica Quan, the daughter of an officer Dorner deems to have been complicit in his being fired from the LAPD, and her fiance. Dorner may in fact have legitimate grievances, but killing Monica Quan strikes me as a pretty piss-poor way of seeking redress. Nor does it make sense to me for Dorner to target the LAPD as a whole.
Sheesh matt. Dorner killed a 27 female and her fiance just because her father supposedly did him wrong. I cant stand bad cops as much as the next person but a hero doesnt kill inocent women. I hope they put a bullet in his eye socket for killing her.
Way to add to the conversation, mouth breather. Dorner is a true American hero? Didn’t he wax someone’s kid? Your idea of a hero must be very different from mine. Whining at the police about the laws that your representatives wrote is silly (and dangerous, given the state of affairs in the US).
LC Judas is exposing something here, you should be glad that not everyone with a badge also wears rose-colored glasses. Few people hear about this, and we tend to idolize those who protect us. Given your reaction, you should be applauding LC Judas for telling it like it is. It ain’t his fault that the laws he is sworn to uphold were passed by tyrannical representatives of an ignorant mob.
Thanks LC, it’s refreshing to hear this from an LEO.
This is matt, our proud racist and anarchist, elevating a black man to the role of hero because he murdered 2 people that had nothing to do with his grievence with the LAPD.
matt obviously needs the court ordered meds he was ordered onto when 15. He also needs supervision, but the aclu has made it nearly impossible to get the matt’s out there the help they need.
matt,
Sometimes I think you are the one going off the reservation. Here is a pro-freedom LEO writing a pro freedom article and you are going after him. What’s that all about?
From the sounds of it, I wouldn’t mind if LC Judas was patrolling my neighborhood.
How is Dorner a “hero”?
@ Pete who said, “I hope they put a bullet in his eye socket for killing her.”
Which “they” are you rooting for?
That said, there is no way I consider Dorner a hero.
Those “innocent” people you speak was a cop, and the wife & daughter of a cop. She benefited from the corrupt police departments nearly as much as the officers themselves. And no one is innocent. Look up the definition of that word before you use it.
http://www.neontommy.com/news/2013/02/usc-dps-officer-keith-lawrence-remembered-easy-going-fellow-officers-and-former-coaches
Chris Dorner right now is almost more popular than TTAG. His fan site on Facebook is only 3 days old and has 4,083 likes, compared to TTAG’s 5,812 likes. Give it another week and Dorner will be more liked than TTAG. I’m not the only one who think’s hes a hero. Also take in to account all the people who have been providing false leads to the LAPD to help Dorner out.
http://www.facebook.com/ChristopherDornerOfficial
And regarding my message to LC Judas. Isnt it funny he has replied to everyone but me? He is unwilling to answer questions like how many guns he has gotten off the street. LEOs like him and Accur81 like to say they support 2A, yet they and their coworkers every day grab guns from American citizens in the name of ‘getting them off the street’
@Bob
Dorner is a hero because he is actually doing something. He is playing the game on nightmare mode, going up against the police state by himself.
I remember seeing a sign posted somewhere, it said, “Please do not feed the trolls, they will leave and go elsewhere.”
Matt- felons of any stripe should not legally carry firearms. Law abiding citizens and peace officers can & should carry firearms. That is all.
“Dorner was a hero”?! He murdered the daughter of a former supervisor – the daughter had nothing to do with his claimed grievances.
Explain yourself.
LCJudas, I rode with LEOs for 4 years, not as sworn personnel, but as part of something called the Psychiatric Emergency Response Team, where my “office,” as a clinical psychologist paired with an LE partner, was the shotgun seat of a patrol unit, and I can unreservedly concur with your post. Many of the men and women with whom I rode I was proud to consider friends, and to have them reciprocate. Others, however, gave me the willies, and I saw things in the field that were actionable, but the reporting of which would have made it impossible for me to continue doing my job, because there is that so-called blue wall of silence, the breaching of which is likely to queer the breacher with ALL the LEOs, both the good and the bad. I needed to continue working, and loved the job, so I kept my yap shut and just trusted that Internal Affairs never saw fit to contact me, because if they had, I wouldn’t have lied. So I hope that’s not your real badge number in the picture above, because, since it will identify exactly who you are, I fear you may have put yourself in line for a ration of shit. Thanks for your post. Live long and prosper.
Matt is The Village Idiot. Ignore him.
Conway, FYI The above photo is stock photography. It is not from a real officer. Here is the original source
http://www.wallconvert.com/converted/los-angels-police-gun-with-badge-99409.html
Thanks. I’m relieved to know that that is not Officer “Judas’s” real badge in the photo illustrating his post.
Matt,
I will say it again because you asked this same question on another post of mine. No matter what number I said it would fuel your fire of true advocation of disorder. I do not know what your view of right and wrong is and I do not care to. Hence, asking loaded questions about the performance of my duties when you have an agenda of basically trying to be an intellectual troll would waste more of my time to actually talk policework with someone like you who openly scorns police.
If you think any rationalization through a dry dictionary and Facebook of all things explains, justifies, pardons, or even makes it remotely legitimate to shoot someone not in the act of harming someone else at the time in cold blood you have more wrong with your belief system then a smart aleck gone down the wrong path. “Nightmare mode”? There’s so much wrong with that statement I won’t even bother with it.
Your views are so flippant but malignant that it logically doesn’t follow why you post here at all. Don’t you have manhole covers to loosen and buildings to deface in the name of defying the system?
You must really be ashamed of admitting how many guns you’ve grabbed from Americans in the name of ‘getting them off the street’. So I guess that means you wouldn’t tell me how much money you’ve stolen from people via civil asset forfeiture programs, if I asked either?
to shoot someone not in the act of harming someone else at the time in cold blood you have more wrong with your belief system
So it wrong to shoot someone who hasnt directly harmed you, but its ok for a cop to tackle someone who is running away? It is ok for a cop taze someone who is not obeying a order? It is ok ram/PIT maneuver someone who is being chased by a cop? Funny how it is ok for a cop to use force against someone who hasnt directly harmed him, but its not ok for a vigilante to do so.
“Nightmare mode”? There’s so much wrong with that statement I won’t even bother with it.
Apparently you havent played Doom, Diablo, Resident Evil, etc. Its a reference to the hardest mode in a game, typically one in which your player doesn’t respawn if killed.
Don’t you have manhole covers to loosen
Loosen? What? How do you loosen a man hole cover? I’ve removed them before, but its hard with a crow bar, those things are heavy as hell.
and buildings to deface in the name of defying the system?
I’m all out of spray paint to write Ⓐ symbols.
Gee, Matt, I myself didn’t take any guns off the street, but was present when LEOs confiscated weapons whose owners seemed imminently at risk for using them inappropriately, and I also paritipated in facilitating some citizens being taken to a mental health facility on a 72-hour hold for a more thorough psychological evaluation than I was able to administer in the field. From your posts, Matt, I’m getting the impression that you are yourself a person I might have thought worthy of further mental health evaluation. What the fuck is your problem?
My problem is the police, including the quite literal thought police such as yourself. Funny how people like you and jwm use the exact same tactics as the Russian Communists, when you run across someone whos politics you dont agree with, you call them mentally ill and say they ought to be incarcerated.
I don’t call you mentally ill based on your politics matt. It’s the casual acceptance of murdering a young woman just because she was related to a cop. And numerous other statements making light of the deaths of the innocent.
It’s my opinion, and no doubt I’ll get deleted for saying it, of all the commentors on TTAG you are most likely to be the next Lanza or Holmes.
And considering some of the people that comment here, that says a lot.
And I don’t think that anybody that has read you more than a couple of times would doubt that given the chance you would have gladly been loading people on cattle cars for the camps.
Have my statements left any room for doubt as to how I feel, matt. You’re not a resistor or a freedom fighter, you’re just a damaged and ill young man that is likely feared by his own family.
It’s the casual acceptance of murdering a young woman just because she was related to a cop.
So that makes me mentally i’ll, but your not too? Even though you willingly went to Vietnam to kill Vietnamese people for no other reason than a politician told you to? All I do is speak my opinion, i’ve never tried to kill anyone unlike yourself. But i’m the one who is mentally ill? As I said, your just like the Commies who would call anyone whos politics they dont agree with, mentally ill.
Matt, you seem to have written the following in response to a post of mine:
“So that makes me mentally i’ll, but your not too? Even though you willingly went to Vietnam to kill Vietnamese people for no other reason than a politician told you to?
“All I do is speak, i’ve never acted on what i’ve said unlike yourself. But i’m the one who is mentally ill huh? As I said, your just like the Commies who would call anyone whos politics they dont agree with, mentally i’ll.”
1) I’ve never been to Vietnam. 2) I don’t recommend incarceration for the mentally ill, except in those cases in which they have committed crimes; I do recommend treatment, despite the fact that such treatment as is available is not reliably effective. 3) I don’t make imputations of mental illness on the basis of someone’s politics. But I am likely to begin to think of such imputations on the basis of the quality of a person’s cognitive processing as revealed through their speech and writing, and at this point am in agreement with the poster who suspects, Matt, that “you’re just a damaged and ill young man that is likely feared by his own family.” I’d tell you to get some help, except that you probably don’t think you need any. 4) Devote some of the time you now spend on being a troll, to learning to spell.
Until Dorner is convicted in a court of law he is a SUSPECT entitled to a fvcking trial. I wasn’t witness to anything he was accused of doing and even if he confessed (who can prove he wrote anything that’s on “social media”) he is entitled to speedy trial by a jury of his peers. Even Charlie Manson got a trial. Being convicted in the corrupt national press means nothing. Rule of law should be followed.
This. Last time I checked the Bill of Rights there were a few things besides the right to keep and bear arms.
I never said anything about violating due process. I haven’t seen the evidence and I don’t presume Dorner is innocent or guilty but I’m running the odds as i know them. My point is if he shot cops or would shoot cops in effort to rid the department he was formerly employed ny of corruption that a cop can’t do that. Corruption in the force is what I’m saying the rank and file officers can’t fix on their own and hoping it won’t happen requires naivete unbefitting rational adults. Dorner symbolizes this vigilanteeism at current whether he is guilty or not.
Sammy,
Each person is legally innocent until proven guilty. It doesn’t make them factually innocent. By his own words published on his account and sent to cnn, the guy wanted to go on a killing spree. Then, he did go on a killing spree.
If he can be captured peacefully, it would be great. He could have a fair trial and comment on his alleged grievances.
But, until he is captured, we need to treat him as dangerous. Hopefully, the SoCal authorities will capture him and stop opening fire on innocents in blue trucks.
Dear Uncle Fester,
I hope this note finds you well. I’m not saying leave a glass of milk and cookies for him. The LAPD , from what I’ve seen, have zero intention of a live capture. Of course Dorner will call the tune on that. I just think, with the administrations use and end of disclosure about drone strikes, we are entering a bad space where assumption of guilt = punishment by cop. Like the homeless man found on the roof of a Florida University. Yea, he pulled a knife, he’s not exactly in top shape and at a distance not much of a threat. Every cop I see has a tazer Why such destructive force as a bullet? A tazer could have ended that situation without bloodshed. I don’t like the disrespect for human live without at least an attempt to use the least amount of force possible. I carry a .45 daily. I believe in self protection. It’s not like I expect the cops to risk themselves unnecessarily, just don’t be excessive. Oh, I also carry a gel spray. Can’t get a tazer.
Fester:
Legally innocent, yes. That’s in a court of law. That’s the only place the presumption exists.
If I kill your kid in front of your own eyes, I am still presumed innocent. You will no doubt see me as guilty.
I just recalled a closing quote (with some refresher help from Wikipedia) from the old “Dragnet” TV series that seems appropriate:
“we have one big problem in selecting police officers … we have to recruit from the human race.”
– Wm. H. Parker – former LAPD Chief of Police
You can substitute any profession or group of people for “cop” in the above article. No exceptions exist. Wolves come from all groups.
Quite true, J&D. People don’t turn into crooks in law school, they showed up as crooks looking for a “legal ” way to scam others. Every group has the same bell curve of good-to-bad characters in the spectrum. Cops too.
I would say cops are worst because power attracts corruption.
With exceptional power comes exceptional responsibility.
Only the “exceptional” in the case of LEs has become not only not held to a higher (let alone the same as you and me), standard, but excepted from all the rules everyone else has to follow.
“Pro gun rights” my left nut. LCJudas is giving us an vomit-worthy apologist propaganda piece, nothing more. Stinking vile crap from top to bottom. Is he out busting all the dirty dirty cops he’s obviously aware of? Nope, he’s apologizing for them.
Coppers in the US are paid very well, with very generous retirement and benes to be the most professional enforcer of the law/investigator of crime known to man. It’s an easy, safe job far less complicated than cooking pasta in a decent restaurant on a Friday night. There are precisely NO excuses for the daily abuses, let alone the “mistakes” and “errors in judgement”. Everybody on the platoon knows who the problem child/ren is. They all cover, until it becomes a huge issue when they kill someone DWI, or reckless discharge or beat them to death.
You eff up once in a real job you get fired. In LE you get a medal. If you do it too often, they may make you switch to a different department. Ouch.
Propaganda?
I don’t have to aggrandize anything and you don’t see an apology anywhere. I said what I see and I do what I can. As the rank and file you come to work and do your job, file a report on a guy and get either harassed by command staff for screwing with senior officers, fired or both. Go to work with these people and keep on rocking the boat that doesn’t shift and see if someone doesn’t suddenly forget where you are when shooting starts…or maybe strikes you with a cruiser. I know a guy hit by a cruiser actually. No legitimate excuse and the guy soon left the department. I wasn’t privy to the underlying background of the entire tale but read what I said for what it is. Police is great in theory but not perfect; it’s run by humans. If you think I can suddenly undo any amount of corruption on my own in the fantastic way you seem to suggest then I would either end up a vigilante like Dorner, injured or left behind by my fellow officers in a situation that’s dangerous.
The fact is most police power abuses aren’t grandiose or amazing Racketeering feats worth a movie remake. It’s the little stuff like profiling which bothers me because I’m black but doesn’t get penalized nearly as much as it should. You want to talk down to me? Walk in my shoes, do my job, try doing some good and come back with your soul after a few years. Some of the stuff that is legal and suggested to do in the Policy and Procedure manual is downright horrid in the wrong contexts but…nevermind people abusing authority legally I suppose, according to you.
I’ve seen cops fired for bad conduct. It happens WITHOUT Interal Affairs if you do dumb enough crap and NO department hires a guy with even so much as a DWI ticket if he doesn’t have an inside track. I know a guy, mid thirties, who just lost his career over something simple. Cops get fired. What I referred to in the article was that guy who puts the cuffs on too tight, who writes you a ticket for going seven miles over a highway speed limit even though he knows you commute that route every day, impounds your weapon and cuffs you for the duration of said traffic stop for his and your safety, things that stack up and matter but probably aren’t worth a Supreme Court case. Sure there’s more, there’s movies about more but if you think I know more bad cops than good cops then you’re off the mark.
I’m just sickened by ANY corruption by Law-Enforcement officials, whether I work with them or not and when I get the chance I rat out the ones I can. I do no more, no less and make no apologies for it. Make little of me all you like but if I’m so beneath you, hopefully you encounter some of the people I detest and find something to really hate.
I had not much earlier gotten off the phone getting a very, very dirty ‘routine traffic stop’ interrupted in progress before it got way beyond the illegal it already was, for a couple of female friends who were caught up in it. If the passenger didn’t have the presence of mind to text me, the driver wasn’t recording it all, and I didn’t have the right ‘friends’ at the LT level and above, this typical roid raging paramilitary filth punk trash with a badge might have done something very bad. According to the LT, he’s already had several allegations out there of the same conduct. Not that anyone has fired him, like would happen in the real world the first time there was even an allegation of this crap. Maybe, just maybe, the system will spit him out before he’s convicted of rape and/or kills. Maybe.
So, I’m even less tolerant than usual of the acceptance of bad apples by everyone else on the squad/platoon/department.
I’m well aware of what happens to your backup response time if you don’t ‘play ball’. I know what would happen to me (let alone my friends) were they to go public with the audio recording from that “stop”. Even though this subhuman filth punk garbage was far below whale crap, I needed to let ‘the system’ eventually deal with him. Or I would pay.
Here’s my more rational point – if you are not part of the solution, you are sanctioning the problem. I know some cops, I drink with some more cops, and I’ve had cops in my family. The ones I ‘know’ are pretty decent folks on their own, but everybody, including non-cop me, knows exactly who the whack-jobs are in the district. Not just the Ranger-Ricky rookies, the often ex-mil dangerous filthy Stanford-Experiment animals operating under the color of state. Were any normal folk to do a fraction of what we all know they do, they’d be hooked and booked in minutes.
Here’s some reality from a guy who’s seen this for 30+ years -there’s nothing ‘moral’ about this gig. It’s a power/corruption fest everywhere in the US. Sometimes you catch a bad guy. Meanwhile you do a whole lotta worse. I’ve a met hundreds of coppers who all “go along to get along”. As you’ve already acknowledged, that’s the job.
So, accept that you accept this garbage in order to get your over-paycheck, gravy benes, and retirement after doing almost nothing. 20 years in a job far safer than working in a warehouse then retire? Puhleese.
Otherwise, start by arresting that one alky who drives home @ .025 every night and gets stopped at least once a week while doing it. You know, the one who smells like JD at roll call. We both know they’ll eventually kill someone, but are you gonna do something or not? Exactly. You aren’t.
I know exactly what happens to most cops who get fired after they do something “bad” and get caught. They end up in different jurisdictions. At worst, a different state. I used to live next to a muni that was a top 25 speed trap. They took everyone with the filthiest jackets known to man. Stuff that would preclude their working at Taco Bell. Just like every other podunk muni the US.
So, lie to yourself however you want. Take a stand and clean up your own if you’re all that. Otherwise, be honest and admit that you’re just another guy looking for the relative power to do as you want and easy money that the government provides for its tools.
You can always tell a bad cop. They are the ones who believe that they should have more power than the citizen (they can have semiautomatic ‘assault STYLE weapons and REGULAR magazines…11-30 rounds) but try to promote and enforce the banning of such tools to the populace. As such, they are dirty, filthy traitorous pigs.
Incorrect. One of the best cops I ever knew is pro-gun control. I am working on him as we speak but he worked in a strict gun control area and therefore, only the perps had guns. Therefore he equates gun control with keeping guns out of criminal hands. Also incorrect but that’s his view and he’s neither corrupt nor abusive.
Then a moron and useful idiot. Carrying 15 bullets in a pistol riding on a hip while making it so a citizen can only have 7 in their own gun at home is BEYOND hypocritical. It is a level of stupidity that is DANGEROUS.
AgentX, You need to know some decent non-idiot cops.
Admittedly few and far between, but a gun-control cop? Just another statist filth.
“Humanity is imperfect and empowering one class of people is inequality at its finest”
LC Judas, thank you Sir for your post. Unfortunately, some of the police are not sheep dogs. They are wolves in sheep dog clothing. I don’t blame most police for not wanting to take a bullet and wanting to be able to go home at the end of the day. An armed, trained, and more self-reliant population of law-abiding responsible citizens can reduce the odds of police not being able to go home.
You’re not telling me anything I don’t already believe. But any police officer who thinks a civilian is a liability with weapons on principle is an officer trying to vouch for his own ability and safeguard his own power. That is what I would watch out for, more than anything in this coming storm. I say that in response to what the California police chief said the other day about “guns not being defensive weapons”. If they aren’t, we couldn’t defend ourselves with them OR we are only in the business of attacking people as police officers who carry guns. Neither sounds good does it?
But…who is getting media soundbites now…?
Thanks for your reply. I agree with all you wrote in your post and comment. Not sure how you took my initial comment to you. I wasn’t trying to inform or lecture you on anything in my reply. I was simply being reflective on the subject and writing to the general audience here. Thanks for being a good public servant for your community.
That California police chief is either an idiot or a pro nanny-police state political hack or both.
I may have misunderstood your tone to begin with, forgive me. I do the best that I can with what I have to work with.
I don’t have much to say about a lot of chiefs, including the one I work for and honestly…the amount of politics involved in police work is startling at best. Watch what your “top cops” say in the future is all I have to say.
Thank you for that. I think its a very brave post.
A lot of officers would frown or worse on my candid representation and it took a lot to actually post on the topic in this way but banning guns doesn’t leave the safety of the populace in the hands of angels.
This officer isn’t frowning, much less anything worse. Well said!
I would add that there are plenty of officers in it for nothing more than a paycheck, and have absolutely no interest in protecting anything but their own tails, and their job. They know full well a cop can enjoy a 20+ year career, accomplish absolutely nothing, and retire with full benefits. They’ll do nothing to help you if there’s the slightest chance they’ll get hurt or investigated.
Personally, I don’t want to live in DiFi’s world, where cops are overlords of the proles.
CS
LC Judas lives in that fantasy world.
And he exists to collect his paycheck and benes, just read his replies.
i am not one to try to post links for other news but i found this very intriguing .
its a russian view on U.S. gun control very good read!
http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/22-01-2013/123540-obama_gun_control-0/
Police are civilians. We ALL seem to have forgotten that. Civilian = not an active member of the military.
Police are simply civilians that professionally (as their job) perform a duty that any other civilian could do. We have chosen to essentially outsource/dedicate law enforcement activities to civilians who do it as their profession. I have nothing but respect for police officers and the difficult job that they do, but there is no reason to think that they are morally superior or smarter or more capable than any other civilian. They should not have rights — nor weapons! — that the rest of the civilian population cannot have.
BTW I do realize that some definitions of “civilian” exclude police. I guess it’s open to some interpretation, and I also believe the perception of police has evolved over time.
If the police arent a military force, then why do they use military ranks? Why do they use military badges, such as half chevrons to show length of service? Why does the Department of Defense provide them with firearms, night vision and APCs?
The military does not supply those things to the police. The police departments buy it from the companies that make it.
Any corporation needs a hierarchy. Quasi-military designations are convenient for knowing where people fall in that hierarchy.
They are only superficially the same. Some use SGT and LT, some larger forces use CAPT and MAJ, but none use GEN.
The DoD does give away guns, NVGs and APCs. All PDs have to do is pay for shipping and maintenance:
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/06/cops-military-gear/all/
They use military designations because they wish to emulate the military, and think of themselves as a military unit. They dont use them because they are convenient.
Your grasping at straws if your argument rests on them not useing the rank general. The navy doesnt use that term either, does that mean the navy isnt a military unit? And if it means that much to you, CPD Superintendent McCarthy’s rank badge is 4 stars, so he thinks of himself as a 4 star general.
It doesn’t matter what they have or how they dress up. Police are still civilians and not subject to the UCMJ. The ranks and uniforms don’t make them any more military than your local high school’s kids in JROTC.
The National Guard isnt subject to the UCMJ unless under title 10 or 32 orders. Does that mean they aren’t military units when they’re not activated/on drills either?
Does the DoD provide the highschool JROTCs with fully automatic weapons, night vision googles and APCs?
I normally dont like cops… but you sir have earned my respect and admiration.
You said it for me.
Law Enforcement as a sub-culture need the self-awareness and critical reflection you show here. I can only hope many LEOs already share these attributes with you, and those who don’t learn them. Thanks.
A very nice piece. It’s unfortunate that so many other LEOs
are unwilling or unable to make such comments.
+1 so true, in my experience its “respect my authority” (in Cartman voice) above all else. but that is PG county for you.
A very sobering and thought-provoking comment. Thank you for your honesty and support.
From my previous posts, you may have deduced that in thirty years of legal practice, I have come to dislike police officers. That deduction would not be precisely correct. What I dislike are thieves, bullies and liars whether or not they are in uniform. When a “civilian” becomes a thief, bully or liar, it’s often a crime and sometimes it will be punished. When a cop does so, it’s not just a crime, it may also be a violation of the Constitution, yet rarely will it be punished. That’s a little hard to bear, isn’t it?
How do you deal with it?
I make notes. I see where in the chain of command I can submit these facts that won’t get swept under the table and will get attention. I remember these things when that officer gets charged for something unrelated. Often, the most corrupt get their comeuppance when simple things out their natures. Many officers like me bide our time because you can’t just shoot the bad cops like Dorner claims he has. But when that cop is on the stand being tried for being the bad cop he is, guys like me shovel the dirt on him so that they don’t make it back to the streets with the good cops.
Is it hard to bear? You bet it is. I console myself by the fact that if I quit…guys like them are only being more enabled. So I fight the good fight, watch them like hawks behind me and I wait.
Answer your question, Ralph?
Damn right you did. Departments all over the country should be desperate for more officers just like you. Hang in there.
“Most of us care about who we protect but would rather go home than take a bullet for anyone.”
Must be why when there’s an active shooter all cops grab their ARs and hide behind their cars while unarmed sheep get slaughtered.
The job is not that of a bodyguard; we aren’t paid to catch bullets.
But the more practical sense is this:
The responding officers have to take into account everyone with them before they act. If you step from behind cover, are you endangering your partner and the other officers with you? They’re the ones who will be pulling you out of the line of fire by your vest straps if you get hit. Are you going against departmental rules and regulations which can get you fired and lose you your entire career and pension, taking an unsafe shot with a civilian backdrop, putting your guys in your crossfire, are you with guys who have the same odds to hit you as much as the suspect if you trust them to cover your back while you advance?
Every police officer isn’t on the same page but we all have to follow orders. Being an individual and outrunning your slower and more cautious comrades is the fastest way to a department paid grave. Action is complex when you’re in the light of the media anytime you pull the trigger. Orders are orders and there’s a lot more to it that always gets the attention after the furor dies down.
No, it doesn’t pardon the deaths of innocents but if every cop was a crack shot cowboy running in by himself they would be just as much a danger to the people they are trying to protect as the officers who trust this guy behind them.
Police have absolutely no legal obligation to protect civilians. There’s a case in NY now where 2 cops admitted to watching a man get stabbed repeatedly while they stood there 10 feet away waiting for the victim to either die or overpower the perp.
Turns out the victim (covered in his own blood) overpowered and disarmed the perp, only then did the cops came out of the conductors cab (where they were watching the assault) and took over.
The victim sued the NY police who came back with a motion to dismiss, citing they had no legal obligation to protect the victim.
Even though the perp was only armed with a kitchen knife, there were 2 cops, both armed with handguns and billy clubs.
Here’s a link to a great video of the victim’s story.
Thank you for your candor; I appreciate it. It would seem as those who would disarm us for the greater good (with apologies to “Hot Fuzz”) forget that the law enforcement civilian types policing our streets and communities have feet of clay as well.
I’m a fan of the Russian proverb, “doveryai, no proveryai” (trust, but verify); so I do my best to trust law enforcement to secure law and order for us, but verify I have the means at hand to secure some of that law and order for mine and I as only absolutely necessary.
Cops should be detectives, not babysitters to public venues. Keeping this in mind would solve at least half of the problems we have with cops in this country.
Nationwide conceal carry would make it actually possible.
Thank you very much, sir, for your insightful comments and testimony. I’m sure it took a good amount of bravery to post this.
Bravo Mr. Judas.
Now the ultra important question: what has to change so that either law enforcement or “We the People” can promptly remove bad apples from law enforcement?
If there was a simple solution I imagine we’d have found it by now. As is, I imagine if more civilians were armed there would be fewer crooked cops simply by the nature of not wanting to be caught or mistaken for doing the bad they’re doing.
That’s strictly theoretical. I do not think there is a simple solution. Let’s start with people actually identifying that there is a serious problem with the current system and that disarming the general populace will exacerbate it instead of make it better. That’s the best I’ve got for now.
Good article LC from a fellow LEO. Many of us rank and file LEO’s are strong supporters of 2A and believe it is unthinkable to have capable firearms in the hands of only LE and the military. The problem is most of what the public hears from the LE community is from police chiefs of large liberal cities that have pro gun control mayors. There is a reason police chiefs are pro gun control like the mayors of those same cities. They passed a litmus test to get the top LE job in their city.
LC you are spot on with your assessment of human nature and why firearms in the hands of citizens is so important in a free society.
I just hope people take it for what it is instead of try and knit pick and pretend I’m one person out of a faceless mass that isn’t thinking clearly.
The fact that cops are either villains or angels instead of neither is a phenomenon that flexes with whichever way the wind is blowing the day that particular turd hits the fan blades. That is what bothers me and that will likely never be fixed.
Well said, sir.
Thank you much, sir.
You are the civilian, a non military government employee. We are CITIZENS.
The first line of defense in fighting crime are law-abiding citizens. With increasing cynicism of law enforcement, people are less likely to dial 911, report crimes, or even cooperate in investigations. This does not make their jobs any easier, but maybe that’s what some want.
Officer Judas, you are my hero!
Thank you for your candor, your insight and your service!!
Very good read from a good cop. Cops are reactionary and cannot deter aggression and crime. They will arrive too late to stop assaults and murders. That why most government facilities, banks, and museums have armed security officers to protect assets. For homes its need that armed citizens can protect themselves since help like to schools will not show up for 5-20+ minutes to reach you. Good read.
LC Judas thank you for your insightful article.
My Family’s Law Enforcement history goes back to post WW2 LA, Black Dahlia, Tate/ Labianca and everything in between, My uncle took a 357 to the shin, ruined his career.
The peer presure to protect the tribe is intense and organised. The rewards for those that co-operate can be large.
Good cops don’t last long, literaly.
The stories you hear round the roll call room are almost like ghost stories sometimes, if you talk to the veterans. I’ll just do it as long as I can. I doubt I’ll be able to do 20 years of it, that much I’m sure of.
Thank you for your well put editorial and defining coments, LC.
Things haven’t changed much and never will as long as the human element is part of the mix.
Thank you for bringing honor to the job.
Through These Gates…
Good article. With the vindictive nature of politics these days, it took a lot of courage to stand up and be heard.
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