An Examiner article claims that 250 Connecticut law enforcement officers signed a petition stating that they would not to enforce state laws on gun registration/confiscation. As theblaze.com found out, that one doesn’t hold water. An Examiner update says it’s true, linking to an ezinearticles.com story based on info from “Torrey Grimes, a retired twenty-five year police veteran, is the chairman of the Connecticut Peace Officers Association.” As ccdl.com points out, the picture of the article’s author is that of comedian Tim Northern. Not to mention the fact that the Connecticut Peace Officers Association doesn’t exist. None of which answers the main question . . .
Will they or won’t they? If an d when the firearms confiscation order comes down from on high, will police officers who’ve sworn an oath to the United States Constitution violate that oath and trample on their fellow civilians’ natural and civil right to keep and bear arms?
TTAG’s talked to some CT law enforcement types on the ground on the QT and received a couple of emails from readers who’ve done the same. The general consensus: there are officers who will refuse to confiscate firearms from otherwise law-abiding citizens. But these officers readily admit that they have colleagues who will.
So anyone who’s counting on a the thin blue line being a red line for protecting their Constitutional rights in the Constitution State is kidding themselves. As with any organization set up along military lines, there are more than a few true believers whose belief system is focused entirely on exerting the organization’s will. If and when the order is given, they will confiscate guns. What happens after that, no one knows.
This letter, should it exist, changes nothing.
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst, and if you can, do like Huck Finn and light out for the territories.
WHAT territories? You mean Siberia?
Can’t say I haven’t thought about it.
Ohio, like texas but with snow and open carry of loaded guns
Alaska- like America but free… With good jobs exploiting natural resources…
SHHHH, don’t tell them to come up here! We need FEWER people!
On a more serious note, in what way are natural resources being “exploited”? If you truly believe that, you would be well served to educate yourself on the subject.
in what way are natural resources being “exploited”?
1 : to make productive use of : utilize exploiting your talents
Honor the oath or die.
Its a simple choice for them really.
Perhaps someone with better search capabilities than mine can resolve this, but a Yahoo search of official Connecticut oaths did not return any wording where the graduates of the Connecticut State Police academy were required to take an oath to defend The Constitution of the United States of America, or even that of Connecticut, only to enforce the laws.
If anyone can find the exact wording of the oath these officers take it might be enlightening.
A Yahoo search? Why?
“only to enforce the laws.”
You mean, like the Constitution? The supreme law of the land?
you mean their “core values”?
http://www.ct.gov/despp/cwp/view.asp?a=4156&q=487896
In striving to accomplish our mission, we will embody our core values with great PRIDE:
Professionalism through an elite and diverse team of trained men and women.
Respect for ourselves and others through our words and actions.
Integrity through adherence to standards and values that merit public trust.
Dedication to our colleagues, our values, and to the service of others.
Equality through fair and unprejudiced application of the law.
or their code of ethics?
http://www.ct.gov/post/lib/post/pdf_documents/law_enforcement_code_of_ethics.pdf
Law Enforcement Code of Ethics
As a Law Enforcement Officer, my fundamental duty is to serve mankind; to safeguard lives and property; to protect the innocent against deception, the weak against oppression or intimidation, and the peaceful against violence or disorder; and to respect the Constitutional rights of all men to liberty, equality and justice.
I will keep my private life unsullied as an example to all; maintain courageous calm in the face of danger, scorn or ridicule; develop self-restraint; and be constantly mindful of the welfare of others. Hones in thought and deed in both my personal and official life, I will be exemplary in obeying the laws of the land and the regulations of my department. Whatever I see or hear of a confidential nature or that is confided to me in my official capacity will be kept ever secret unless revelation is necessary in the performance of my duty.
I will never act officiously or permit personal feelings, prejudices, animosities or friendship to influence my prosecution of criminals; I will enforce the law courteously and appropriately without fear or favor malice or ill, never employing unnecessary force or violence and never accepting gratuities.
I recognize the badge of my office to be a symbol of public faith, and I accept it as a public trust to be so long as I am true to the ethics of police service. I will constantly strive to achieve these objectives and ideas, dedicating myself before God to my chosen profession….Law Enforcement.
Scary stuff this Connecticut business is. Any blood that comes from confiscation is on the govenor’s and the justices’, who did not strike this law down, hands
That’s not how the left, the media and the governor will paint it.
No, any violence will be a feeding frenzy for the MSM. Public opinion would most likely turn against the POTG, and we would be fractured even further along the lines of whether or not we support the resistance. However, widespread violence would be a far better outcome than mass compliance. If people don’t fight, than we will make it clear to the government that, while we vote and hold massive rallies and so forth, at the end of the day, if they pass an unconstitutional/tyrannical law, we will ultimately follow it. That we talk big and we vote, but at the end of the day, we will fold in the face of bullying and heavily-armed men acting as instruments of the oppressive state.
That is a far worse outcome than giving the MSM and left several thousand tons of ammo to use to further demonize gun owners. But it’s a horrific situation all around, and no outcome is going to be pleasant. At the end of the day, though, I don’t think CT will order confiscation. The politicians won’t reverse the law (that would require an admission of being wrong, which won’t happen), but it will become just another unenforced law. God, I hope that’s how this plays out….
I just read a story a couple of days [weeks] ago, something about Clinton[s] R.O.E. and something else about if the press lies the press d!e$. Or something like that, anyone else read that? link please.
Drew
If you start hearing jessy & al saying “we must have confiscations” then I would believe the time is near. Liberals cannot afford to alienate & piss off a huge voting block.
but it will become just another unenforced law.
That would be a bad outcome… a landmine for future generations, perhaps less resolved to end infringement, to stumble over. Better to get this pissing match with government done and settled than to have it fester as so many other laws and regulations appear to have before. If the laws remain on the books, even unenforced, government gains power. We’d be just kicking the can down the road to an uncertain future.
I’m torn on this issue. The tenth amendment is in play here on the states side. However retroactive laws are not really, well, legal. Also the arbitrary 10 round number is bs. What magazine company makes 10 round mags? Or at least did before these laws came about? Also it puts a hardship on internet based companies as well.
They’ve been making them since 1994. Availability isn’t the issue for most, but not all, handguns.
Unfortunately, Frank, illegal laws, retroactive or not, are still enforced up until a court with jurisdiction puts an injunction on that enforcement and/or the law is finally determined to be illegal or unconstitutional. This is small comfort to those grabbed up into the system in the meanwhile.
So the question remains – will the local LEOs enforce this law or not? Given enough pressure from their command structure I suspect most of them will enforce rather than face losing their jobs.
I would be astounded if most officers did not simply “follow orders”. Maybe a few cases of “blue flu”, but my guess is that will be the extent of officer non-compliance.
How exactly do you figure the 10th Amendment is in play here?
“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
The Second Amendment clearly states that the right of the people to keep and bear arms, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. I’d say that’s a pretty big “prohibited”.
Sickening.
The thought of violating that oath is abhorrent to me.
I’ve actually had to stop reading articles about CT, since it was seriously starting to turn my stomach. This one is just bizarre, but it doesn’t change the basic problem with all this- the only sure result of this kind of proposal an action is dead bodies. Some in their bathrobes, some in their pjs, and I’m afraid a lot of them in their uniforms. All so a handful or arrogant, self righteous administrators can pat themselves on the back, smile with Shannon for the pictures, and tell themselves what a great job they did solidifying their control. Oh, and saving the kids.
Expletives and ad hominems, even if they were allowed, fail to properly convey what those people are, and what they deserve. I’m going to have to settle for knowing that when they meet their end, they’ve got first class section reservations for whichever realm of Hell specializes in eternal lubeless butf**king.
Well said, Sir! I believe Hell is full of people who knowingly screwed their fellow man in one way or another and they will pay for those for an Eternity.
90%+ officers will follow thru as just following orders, im absolutely sure.
There will certainly be the ones who abstain, and will lose their job doing so, but the overwhelming majority will just say “well its the law, our job is to enforce the law, herr derp derp” unfortunately
Gotta love that 90%+ number you undoubtedly pulled out of your ass.
You have any reason to think it’s erroneous?
You’re far too idealistic if you think that a significant number of cops will refuse the order, should it come. Frankly, I’d say a 10% noncompliance is a generous number. Look up Milgram’s experiment. It has some interesting insights, and demonstrates that the vast majority of people will obey an authority figure, even if they know that what they’re being ordered to do is wrong. People conform. It’s in our nature, which is why the occasional person who goes against orders to expose something (like Mr. Snowden) is hailed as a hero, and why the others who knew about it said nothing and went along with it.
Because I said 90%+ as a scientific fact and not my opinion, amirite?
I absolutely believe that number. If you dont, you have more faith in the police than I do.
Watch the NRA Dom Raso video with his SP friend. He says point blank that he doesn’t agree with the laws, but he’ll be there arresting everyday people.
If and when confiscation is ordered, the cops will do what the Malloy Mafia tells them to do.
Some cops will do so grudgingly, some cops will do so willingly and some cops can’t wait to start kicking down doors.
As I see the law. It comes down to this.
As a LEO are you willing to break the oath you took to preserve and protect the Constitution?? Or are you willing to be shot at for obeying an obviously illegal command??
Its going to be up to the individual sworn officer as to what he/she is willing to do.
I can see blood here eventually.
Whos??
This I don’t know but it will happen eventually if they try to take away personal property.
This either way will all be on the governors and state police commanders hands.
Not on the citizenries.
I can also see a civil war starting over this.
The politicians in the North East in general no longer represent the people at all.
The best part is we still get to vote.
G-d bless Florida and our representatives in OUR state capital..
The blaze also had a story about a CT officer on facebook chomping at the bit to kick some doors
The follow-up questions should be:
Will you put your bodies between your fellow officers and the people? Will you put your lives on the line for the people? If fired upon, will you return fire?
I know cops who would turn in their badges before enforcing this law. I know cops who can’t wait to start shouldering through doors. Both sides are pretty passionate about the issue, which means they could start fighting amongst themselves over differences of philosophy. So, now you’ve turned tens of thousands of people into felons, you’ve inspired the ire of gun owners from coast to coast and you’ve caused rifts within police departments across the state. If this one turns ugly, it will likely do so in a variety of new and exciting ways. Nifty friggin law, Connecticut lawmakers. You may go down in history, after all, just like you always wanted.
In addition to wondering how many cops own these taboo items (they’re exempt, aren’t they?) it’s a good bet that a lot of their friends, brothers, uncles, fathers, sisters, drinking buddies, etc. do, as well. The sheer numbers suggest that a few cops are going to be ordered to confiscate guns and ammo from their favorite cousins, childhood friends and so on. Just to add to the fun.
One man with a pistol shot Archduke Ferdinand which ultimately resulted in the deaths of tens of millions of people in the First World War. Will this be Adam Lanza’s place in history as well?
Chilling. Sort of a Butterfly Effect with explosions and blood and tears.
Tragedies are just excuses. All governments eventually seek more power. Ours cannot usurp much more without disarming the People. In reality, Sandy Hook has nothing to do with this. There would always be an event to act as pretext for government. Government is attempting to overcome shall not be infringed even more and, sadly, this tragedy merely serves that end.
Agreed, 100%, government just looks for excuses.
I find it hilarious that Sen. Dianne Feinstein has her panties in bunch about the CIA spying on Senators but would not think twice to use them if she could to spy on gun owners.
Many people in power believe that once elected, the report to nobody.
Gen Y trusts nobody especially not government and people wonder why
I love that YouTube channel.
Sad that the comments have been invaded by ignorant pseudo-intellectuals.
Don’t know many cops willing to test the strength of their “bulletproof” vests for stupid sh!t and no knock warrants. Just sayin
Wide spread confrontational door to door confiscation is very unlikely. I won’t say never, however. This will be a frog boiling operation and in a generation the job wil be done if the law is allowed to stand that long.
People will get busted because they do other stupid things, or are sold out by a spiteful ex or buddy that got pinched for not paying his taxes. There won’t be raids for guns alone. However, if you registered per the law you are forever no knock raid and felony stop fodder for life no matter the offense.
I agree. That is, unless gun rights groups rub it in the State’s face through open demonstrations of “contraband” in order to prevent the boiling frog process. That’s what I’d propose if I were a CT resident… take too long, State, and we’ll force your hand. Repeal this bullshit now.
This will be a frog boiling operation
This will be a sheep boiling operation. Sheep are dumber than frogs.
For ONCE I’m glad I live in Illinois. Good luck & God bless Connecticut gun owners.
Having just read the article about Kalifornia and Justice Kennedy possibly considering the emergency motion to put the magazine ban on hold, I have to ask if a similar emergency motion has been filed in this case? It would seem that AR’s that get destroyed, especially ones set up for competition (very expensive), is a considerable reason to block this. Of course, there are many other reasons but I’m just interested in the answer. Is there anything like that in the works?
Yes, we tried, and the Judge assigned would not even bother to hear oral arguments — he ruled no. For more information on everything CT gun owners are trying to do to stop this BS check these websites out
http://www.ccdl.us/
http://ccdl.us/blog/
http://ctcarry.com/News/Releases
Note the meetings and the 2a supports that are showing up to speak
Here’s how I see it will go down, and don’t everyone get riled up over my opinion please. As much as some officers might be chomping at the bit to do no-knock raids and charge otherwise law abiding citizens with felonies for no other reason, it will not happen. Too much risk, too much liability, not to mention too much money when their plate is probably already pretty full with actual crimes. What will happen in one of these citizens is going to use an illicit firearm in a lawful DGU situation, decide to hold off on ordering the pizza and calls the authorities. When the cops arrive and see that the individual does not have their assault weapon registered, they will most definitely confiscate said firearm, and the victim be arrested for murder. What happens next is anyone’s guess, depending on how the media spins it.
We have gun registration in CA, and despite popular belief I have yet to hear about these kind of raids taking place on the streets of LA or Oakland (a media cover up conspiracy perhaps?) There are even internet videos of folks brandishing firearms without the cops going and running the serial number on them. I have yet to go to a public gun range that has asked to see proof of registration. I know some friends of mine shoot at private ranges that allow hi caps without any fuss.
It will kind of be like speeding on the freeway, only with much higher stakes. Use these guns at your own risk, but the police will only go after easy targets or tack on the charge when convenient to do so.
All this to say that I still don’t agree with gun registration, which is why I am going to move to freer pastures soon enough. I support the cause and stand behind the civil disobedience taking place in CT. I just ask that you please be safe and responsible, because CT gun owners represent American gun owners as a whole. Anything you do can and will be used against you as anti-gun propoganda by groups seeking to curtail constitutional rights. Don’t give them more ammo than you can handle.
You are correct and your scenario is most plausible but we have a lot state legislature democratic progressive types who would happily be the first to step on the graves of those killed in the raids and proclaim that they were terrorists. We really do have politicians in CT that rather see us dead.
The difference between CA and CT is that in CT the left progressives are not afraid of shedding a little blood if it advances their agenda. As zealot as a religious fanatical, many in our government are terrorists for their cause. They care more about making the DNC happy than helping the state.
I do not believe anything will happen but there are the right mix of people should it happen would make it happen.
Sergio, Cali has Gov. Moonbeam and CT has Dannel Malloy. You don’t know Dannel Malloy. He’s a street thug — and that’s an insult to street thugs.
I love this website and hate reading syntax and grammatical errors in every single article. Please PROOF READ! It makes the site look unprofessional and like a illegitimate source. Hope this doesn’t get deleted.
This isn’t moms demand illegal mayor’s,. Why would they delete it?
Oh what a wicked web we weave. These cops if ordered to go house to house , if they are smart enough, will have to watch their backs for the rest of their lives. However this turns out. OBTW,
For the NSA/.gov snoops, I hope before it never escalates to bloodshed, they realize they will be the ones to start it, we will be the ones to finish it. Gun owners are already portrayed in the MSM, as Bible carrying, knuckle dragging gun owners. That won’t change if the “man” gets froggy.
However, history will remember those that stood against many, refused the will of an unconstitutional tyrant, and reminded a nation not one more inch.
A very good friend is a CT LEO whose job is door-kicking, when needed. He has indicated that he and his men will not kick in doors to enforce anti-2A laws on otherwise law-abiding citizens. He says he has spoken to his peers across the state, many of whom feel the same way.
However, he has no doubt that there are those who will execute such orders, particularly at the state level. As he points out, in addition to principle, when you are a local cop, it is tough to be the Gestapo where you work everyday, and live in many cases. But, when you are called in from out of town, there is less affinity to the locals and/or concerns about backlash.
The police are an army that works for politicians. Not citizens. Look for a huge increase in budget in anticipation of collecting the arms. They might even sweeten it up with enhance immunity or even special circumstancial laws to give the LEOs cover and piece of mind.
If this works in CT the feds are going to consider it. CT is the test case.
i love those youtube videos. the “live free or in massachusetts” was my favorite.
Looks like they found the guy who started the hoax.
http://www.guns.com/2014/03/11/breaking-hoaxster-comes-forward-ct-state-police-protest-letter/
Will we rise up or will we just wimp out and suffer through it? I dunno.
“All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.”
But we all know what happened shortly after that sentence was penned.
State cops will be happy, even enthusiastic about enforcing the laws. The local police might be a bit more reluctant because they will face the ire of other members of the community who elected them.
This is evidently a hoax from “Jim V”:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut_Peace_Officers_Association
===|==============/ Keith DeHavelle
I think if it comes to money vs principles. If they refuse the order, they could very well be fired and not have income, but they will have stuck to their principles. Or they can forget what we stand for and go kicking in doors just so they keep getting paid. I think in this day in age America is addicted to money, and most LEOs will forgo what is right for what is easy.
There is a tremendous disconnect between left and right and those in office and the average American. People say your a “conspiracy nut” if you think something like a civil war is going to happened again. I just don’t see how it can be avoided. Many of us are sick and tired of having our freedoms, not just 2a, taken away from us. Owe used to be considered radical, now our numbers grow and those in charge fear us because it means the end of the free ride they have been given. One day, they will push too hard and cross that line, at that point we will see the real “Change we can believe in”
If you’re wondering about this go read Ordinary Men. I don’t think there will be any difference here. Not that these officers will be exterminating people but the psychology behind it is the hsame.
Will the majority of police participate in gun confiscation? The answer is yes. If American police were persuaded to assist in rounding up “Japs” for shipment to concentration camps, then all bets are off. All cops need is a good reason, and they’ll act.
So, do we all need to go down in a blaze of glory? No, not yet, anyway. What we DO have to do is starve the beast. Police departments are becoming extremely expensive: generous pensions, generous health benefits, lawsuits, etc. State, county, and local governments are having to pinch every penny. Large, well-staffed police departments are becoming a luxury in post-bankrupt America. So, the answer lies in whittling down police departments until they are small enough not to pose a threat to our rights, but of sufficient size to deal with the more serious, violent crimes. This will differ from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but it has to be done.
The police now represent the “standing army” of which the Founders warned. It is our responsibility, as citizens, to deal with this internal enemy: first, by administrative means (strict ROE’s); second, by legal means (lawsuits); third, by Constitutional means (removal of sovereign immunity protections); fourth, by fiscal means (severe budget reductions); and, finally, if all else fails, by any means necessary.
We live in interesting times.
I agree with you. When police departments have surplus military armored vehicles, you would think people would wake up and see just how powerful they have become. We have lost many rights as gun owners, yet the police seem to act as if we have gained access to more firearms.
I think the problem with trying to do things in the courts and voting, is those in charge control those methods. I can sue til I’m blue in the face, but what’s the point when those who want it there way control the courts? I think we have gone down a path to where there is one possible outcome and it’s not peaceful. Those who “run” he country have gotten drunk of the power the have been gaining for sometime. They will do whatever they need to ensuring they remain in this position. Only a matter if time before something happens and all hell breaks loose.
I just pray that nobody gets killed in Connecticut over these gun laws. Regardless of ones personal beliefs, nobody should ever be killed because of them.
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