conroe business owner shooting
Courtesy chron.com and Facebook

If you’re going to break into a store with larceny in your heart, you probably don’t expect much resistance at 2:00 am. But a Conroe, Texas burglar’s luck ran out recently when he smashed the window of an auto body shop with a crow bar.

It’s not clear why the business owner and his son were there at oh-my-God-thirty, but they were.

As chron.com reports . . .

“(The business owner) had been burglarized before so he locked his son inside the went out to check what was happening,” (Assistant District Attorney Donna) Berkey said.

The burglar brought just a crow bar to what he probably didn’t expect to become a gunfight.

Once outside, the business owner was confronted by a man with a crowbar and the business owner fired a handgun several times striking the man at least twice. Berkey said the man ran about 150 feet before collapsing.

Thirty-nine-year-old Thomas Dillard won’t be breaking into any more businesses in Conroe. Or anywhere else. Dillard was dead when law enforcement arrived.

The business owner, of course, had a right to defend himself.

According to information from the DA’s office, a business owner, regardless of whether they are licensed to carry, is in lawful possession of a gun because of the castle doctrine. The castle doctrine is an exception to a rule in place in some jurisdictions that requires a defendant to retreat before using deadly force in self-defense. The castle exception states that if a defendant is in his home or business he is not required to retreat prior to using deadly force in self-defense.

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92 COMMENTS

    • On the contrary, I think a lot more people of Mr. Dillard’s ilk should bring crowbars to their next gunfight. A scarcity of those sort of people would be a societal good.

      • “On the contrary, I think a lot more people of Mr. Dillard’s ilk should bring crowbars to their next gunfight. A scarcity of those sort of people would be a societal good.”

        Agreed. You have a point.

  2. It would take a gun to defend against a crowbar or one heck of long bar to defend one’s safety.

  4. So, you are the yard owner. Do you investigate with gun at low-ready or with hand on your holstered gun, ready to draw?

        • Businesses like these are usually in isolated, non residential areas. Very low population after hours. If I was the yard owner I would have a 12 ga. in hand and a handgun in holster when I checked this place out.

        • JWM,

          I had wondered about a long gun in that environment. If I had such a yard it is how I would defend it.

          Thank you!

        • In CA, it’s advisable to check with gun in holster to avoid any charges of “brandishing”. But if you train, your draw-to-shoot lag time is under only one second anyway.

        • JWM,

          Good point, except that I consider my favorite 12 gauge to be the ideal tool for solving “indoor problems” while my favorite semiauto .308 is the ideal tool for solving “outdoor problems”. And sure, you can do a lot with a 12 gauge and slugs, but unless you have a box magazine shotgun or a whole second gun, you’re kind of stuck with buckshot (assuming it’s stored loaded with such).

        • Josh. I default to the shotgun because I live in california. The kind of rifle I would want to carry in this situation is not the kind of rifle the state favors.

          Now if I lived in Texas…………

    • A gun in a holster in a killing situation is useless. Most people can’t draw fast enough to beat what ever they are against. The law where guns have to be locked in a gun safe. Will you wait so I can open my gun safe and get my gun so we are even! Are you going to hit that combination where it will open first time? Some States you have to have a lock on your Conceiled Carry now! You can’t shoot me until I find my key so I can open my trigger so we will be even.
      Unless our miss placed Governor Kate Brown from California gets it changed. I can still carry my Conceiled Carry with out lock. My right hand is crippled. My Trigger finger is man made. Which is a lifesaver in many ways exept shooting. I carry in my left pants pocket which is my fastest carry. I pull with left hand and cock with right hand. Staying in 3 inch circle at 30 ft. in 3-4 seconds. I never carry with bullet in barrel. I figure if cant stop them with 6 shots just go ahead and they can have what I can’t protect!

        • Low ready, finger OUTSIDE trigger guard, round in chamber, safety off (if equipped), double action (if DA/SA w/ decocker). To go into a “perceived threat” situation with a holstered firearm puts you too far behind the curve if the adversary is armed.

      • Do what’s best for you, Tom. If it’s a bump in the night, I won’t be wearing my holster anyway, so “gun in hand at low ready” is the default anyhow. But you gotta be careful how you conduct yourself as you approach so you don’t risk charges of brandishing.

      • Omnivorous, thank you for the reply and the link. Good read and the pics are helpful.

        I have paid the extra for some quality one-on-one training, specifically for self-defense, and intend to continue. My years in IT have taught me, even if I think I know the answer, ask the question. People who have done it before will give you the real-world perspective.

        Again, thank you!

    • “So, you are the yard owner. Do you investigate with gun at low-ready or with hand on your holstered gun, ready to draw?”

      If you are an operator operating operationally….manage your weapons however you like. If you are not an operator operating operationally, you have no idea how many people are outside, or where they are. Walking out of safety, into the unknown, carrying however many weapons you have, however you want to carry them, poses unnecessary risks.

      Remain indoors, call police (ok, call for “backup”), find a defensible position and wait. Dead heroes are remarkably and completely dead.

      (And, yes, we have all had this conversation many times before.)

        • “Good points. Since the yard owner locked his son inside, he clearly anticipated danger.”

          When this thread runs out, we will probably be an army of two on this point.

      • This happened in Texas, most of the State is over 30 minutes for LEO to respond, some areas are over 1.5 hours. If property/land/business owners act in the “stay inside/call LEO/wait manner, they will soon become REGULAR targets for theft. Like lose EVERYTHING theft. Criminals are ALWAYS looking for valuables obtainable with minimal resistance. Druggies and the lawless are funny like that.

        • “If property/land/business owners act in the “stay inside/call LEO/wait manner, they will soon become REGULAR targets for theft.”

          Have yet to have anyone identify a single piece of property that will remain safe and secure if that anyone is killed while stalking around in the dark.

          Let’s suppose for a fantasy minute that someone robs you of everything you possess. Let’s suppose for a fantasy minute that the robber has time to go everywhere you have property stored (barn, shed, office, car, wherever) and take it all. Let’s suppose for a fantasy minute the robber(s) even cart you outside, bound and gagged, while they also burn down your house.

          Now, after we have you in a situation where you have only your life, what are your options? Doesn’t matter; you have options.

          So, let’s return to the scenario, and change just one element: you are killed while patrolling your property. What are your options?

        • This issue of deadly force to protect property has been WELL discussed, litigated and documented in reaching the version of the laws in Texas. You’re welcome to research them for yourself, and vote for Texas Legislators who agree with your views (if you call Texas home).

        • Here’s a problem with your logic, Sam. Police wait times, as noted, are often quite long. To make matters worse many departments now refuse to answer property crime reports all together. Even when the crime is taking place , a nearby suburban department tells it’s citizens to let the criminals take what they want and then make an insurance claim. Further, the just-let-them-take-what-they-wamt strategy virtually guarantees that criminals will return again and again turning your fixed business location a permanent and increasingly dangerous target. If your shop is the target of recurring crimes, you soon become un-insurable. I’ve seen body-shops brought to the brink of bankruptcy because of vandalism and theft.

          • “Further, the just-let-them-take-what-they-wamt strategy virtually guarantees that criminals will return again and again turning your fixed business location a permanent and increasingly dangerous target.”

            Heard that claim often; no stats related.

            As to all the other considerations, what is the value of your life? Alive, you have options. Dead, you have none. Period.

            Yes, wait times in many areas is too long, way too long. However….unless you are under attack (perp trying to break in), which you should say to police/911, you lend up waiting in relative safety….allowing you to live another day, with all that holds. Who in your family is going to tell themselves, their children, their in-laws, their parents, “I am so glad Garrison died a futile death trying to save things. It is such a comfort that he valued stuff over life with us.”

        • There is the aspect of being driven out of business, and the possibility of not being able to cover operation expenses (or putting food on the table) to consider. I would never go out and shoot someone over a piece of property (that can be replaced), but driven to the point of having to close my business due to theft? You are DIRECTLY f’in with a mans right to earn a living at that point. Texas recognises this, and the laws back the honest/hard working man up, NOT the criminal.

          • “but driven to the point of having to close my business due to theft? You are DIRECTLY f’in with a mans right to earn a living at that point. Texas recognises this, and the laws back the honest/hard working man up, NOT the criminal.”

            Rationalize all you want. Dead is dead, and the business closes anyway, and you can’t earn a living, and you can’t put food on the table for your family? Insurance money? You are still dead, and family is left with stuff.

            Dead, you have no options to recover. Alive, you have options. Doesn’t get more simple than that.

            (note: this is not reading the way I want, but the elegant words are failing me tonite; no disrespect intended).

        • ” Druggies and the lawless are funny like that.”
          I’m not saying you are one, but Libertarians are always trying to defend drug addicts. They believe making drugs legal will reduce crime. Unemployed drug addicts will always commit crimes. They will even commit crimes when they have a job. The morally degenerate don’t need drugs as a reason to steal.

          They are hypocrites when after a hurricane they say it’s ok to shoot looters. Why does rain and wind make a difference when defending your property?

        • Sam I Am,

          Significant risk and consequences certainly are possible when a property owner goes out to investigate and potentially defend his/her property. (Some of the possible risk and consequence includes the death of the property owner as you stated.)

          Significant risk and consequences are also possible if the property owner (or police by proxy) fail to go out to investigate and defend his/her property. Please note that said risk and consequences may take longer to play out. As one commenter stated, the property owner could become uninsurable and lose their business. Many people, realistically, have few options to provide for themselves and losing their business could directly cause their death much earlier (as in several years earlier) than if they had been able to keep running their business. (Their new line of work could be significantly more risky or detrimental to their health. And their new line of work could yield significantly lower income and result in very poor healthcare as well as other possibilities.)

          There is another significant element of risk when the property owner (or their proxy) fails to investigate and defend their property. The property owner’s failure to defend their property not only emboldens bad actors to steal repeatedly, it also emboldens bad actors to escalate their actions beyond theft to physical assault, rape, and even murder.

          I can see where some people may decide that the risk of investigating and defending their property is too great. I can also see where some people may decide that the risk of failing to investigate and defend their property is too great. Personally, I would not begrudge anyone’s informed decision either way. Isn’t liberty grand?

          • “Personally, I would not begrudge anyone’s informed decision either way.”

            Yep, “informed” being relative.

            It is all to easy for people to decide that regardless of risk, they will prevail, unscathed. From that starting point, a decision to risk death or fully disabling injury is not quite an “informed” decision. However, people are free to ignore everything but their preconceptions. When chest-thumping begins, someone should throw a little cold water on things, and bring a more balanced consideration to the party. Bottom line remains…dead people cannot start over.

        • In Texas, this is our version of criminal justice reform. Justice has been served and the criminal has been reformed. No repeat offender.

    • LifeSavor,

      Investigate with handgun in hand, finger OUTSIDE of trigger guard and your finger “indexed” along the handgun’s receiver (pointing in same direction as barrel), with hand in front of you and pointing slightly across your body and down at ground.

      This method enables you to raise your hand, be on target, and able to shoot almost immediately (probably less than 1/2 second total). And yet it is a safe way to carry your handgun (finger OUTSIDE of trigger guard and handgun pointing at the ground immediately in front of your feet). Furthermore, if you did encounter someone who was NOT a legitimate threat, you will not be moving toward them with a handgun arguably pointing at them (which someone could claim if you are carrying at low-ready which is pointing somewhat forward).

      • U_C,

        Thank you for the detailed advice. I like the idea of not having my gun pointed at anyone but able quickly to come on target. The link Omniverous provided details a few other approaches. I will experiment with all. Having a few approaches well-practiced will help me be adaptable.

        • LifeSavor,

          I just reviewed OmnivorousBeorn’s link. What I described is a slightly modified version of the “Sul” ready position. In the Sul ready position your hand which is holding your handgun is up against your chest. In my method your hand which is holding your handgun is closer to waist level.

          I believe that the method which I described is a little bit less intimidating to a person who was not actually prowling around you property. Then again I might be splitting hairs.

          • “Then again I might be splitting hairs.”

            Ok, you started it….nothing splits hairs like a .9mm round. Not even the 6.5 Grendel. Not even the .454 Casull.

        • U_C,

          Thank you for that clarification!

          It looks like Sam_I_Am is challenging you to a hai-splitting contest.

          I’m jus’ gonna sit back an watch this one.
          LOL!!!!!

          • “It looks like Sam_I_Am is challenging you to a hai-splitting contest.”

            I didn’t start it; just responded to a blatant claim of “hair-splitting”. Can’t just let people make such statements without identifying the caliber they are using. Inefficient hair-splitting due to using the wrong ammunition must be challenged. Nothing beats .9mm; nothing. (well, maybe .762mm, but that is rifle caliber)

      • “(well, maybe .762mm, but that is rifle caliber)”

        Please elaborate on the .762mm rifle Sam I Am.
        That would fire a projectile of around 1/32″.

        • “Please elaborate on the .762mm rifle Sam I Am.
          That would fire a projectile of around 1/32″.”

          It’s a gag. Started a coupla years ago when some blowhard leftist wrote an anti-gun article to some newspaper or other, talking about .9mm ammunition and guns of .9mm. So, when the phrase “hair-splitting” came up, it offered an opportunity to raise the .9mm joke again (small enough to split hairs). Then, keeping with the thread, there was a note that Sam was challenging a caliber war over hair-splitting rounds. Again, I declared .9mm the only suitable round for that task, while admitting .762 might actually be better, but as a rifle round it would not count. As it turns out, only a few decided to go with the gag and keep it alive.

    • In my own businesses presumably fenced yard? Low ready.

      If I were checking out someone outside our apartment window, hand on holstered or pocket carried weapon.

      • Get your gun, call cops, turn on outside floodlights, turn on yard sprinklers, yell that the cops are coming, you’re armed, and you’re recording everything via your security cams. Do everything you can to be able to truthfully say you tried to avoid bloodshed. And if the perp(s) come closer, then you shoot ’em and make sure they’re in no condition to talk to anyone…ever.

        • Yes! The best fight is the fight avoided. My original question was about gun positioning, but it has brought out the conversation about investigation and overall response. Good advice. Thank you, Gusty.

    • At that time of night, there’s no legit reason for someone to be in the yard. It’s not like your home where your kid (or a friend your kid snuck in) is making the noise. Not even the chance of a drunk neighbor going into the wrong house. I’d also be worried about multiple assailants and ambushes.
      As such, there’s no reason to even go low ready. You may go around a corner and have a bat swinging at your head. Firing position while moving and protective/retention position if someone could be hiding nearby. Safety off, finger on the FRAME.

  6. The whole state that Mr. Edwards up here ☝️ Is talking about has been run by liberal Democrats since the 80s, the whole state used to be awesome before the libs screwed everything up, K Brown is a replacement for a disgraced governor who had to resign, basically his mouthpiece. The whole state is controlled by the I-5 corridor, rest of the states votes don’t mean much… FACT..!

  7. Satellite view of the business and residential property, rural to suburban outside of Houston. The business is set back from the two-lane state highway. Behind the shop building is a single wide mobile home, so it looks like combined a residence/commercial property.

    You can absolutely be your own night watchman in your own place of business. Especially if you live on the property.

    https://goo.gl/maps/g3UkSfXfvEtb4nHa7

    • Just across the highway from a Family Dollar and the “Cut N Shoot Tourist Trap” thrift store. Love it.

  8. I’m wondering how much trouble you’d get in if you caught him at gunpoint, drove him into the woods, made him dig his own grave…. …then Let him go with a warning. That might reroute some pathways in his brain.

    • While all that is a pleasing notion and gives me a warm and fuzzy, the reality is it turns a reasonable self defense situation into kidnapping and menacing and maybe other stuff various prosecutors would get hot and bothered about. So, I know it ain’t fair, but not legal, good guy becomes bad guy, bad day all around.

  9. My 19 yr old son is working as an ATC in Alaska. His apartment is above an insurance company. He purchased a Diamondback AR-10 in 308Win because he’s too young to purchase a handgun. He had to hold two burglars armed with crowbars and hunting knives for 20 minutes at rifle point before the LEOs arrived. He pulled out the AR-10 and inserted a 25 rd mag when he heard the glass break downstairs, was ready when they kicked his door in. Funny how his mom (my ex wife) stopped complaining that I had him “strap up” with an AR-10 in Alaska. Reality happens, and sometimes educates the ignorant.

    • What is an “ATC”???

      Pro-tip: never use acronyms if you want to communicate effectively because many people in your audience will not know what your acronyms mean.

      • “Pro-tip: never use acronyms if you want to communicate effectively because many people in your audience will not know what your acronyms mean.”

        Sirens screaming, horns blaring, lights flashing….here comes the grammar police….me.

        Unless all or nearly all your audience understands the acronyms/terms of art you are using, it is proper to first write out the entire term, then add in parenthesis the characters of the acronym. From there, use of the acronym is suitable for communicating your message.

        Car door slamming shut, lights and sirens off. Creeping slowly back into the shadows.

    • Alaska Travel Connections? ALASKA TECHNICAL CENTER? Alaska Tanker Company? ATC Group Services LLC? Alaska Timber Corporation? Alaska Training Clearinghouse? ATC Towing and Recovery LLC? All Terrain Cover?

      So many options, hard to know which one it is?

    • Air Traffic Controller.
      His reason for being there was NOT a critical point in the post, Had it been, I would have provided the full employment description. Everyone happy now?

      • Can’t really claim to be happy, no.

        But at least now that I know that air traffic safety is being competently managed in the State of Alaska, that’s one worry off my plate.

        On the other hand …

        Will Ariana Grande ever drop all that over produced pop sound and just put that amazing voice to some fine old songs with simple musical backing? Not unlike that Miley Cyrus kid did with her Backyard Sessions?

        Will Saturday Night Live ever gain be funny?

        What should I tell my dentist? Seriously, he looked in there and I swear he had the face of a man looking at the source of financing his new sports car or his kid thru college ….

        Will the Roadrunner ever catch that damned bird and why is it that the National Park Police do not respond when the bird defaces rock faces by painting a tunnel entrance? Since when is that legal anyway?

        If I win the biggest lottery ever, will it be enough money to pay the Game of Thrones Cast to redo the final season? Only the Dragon Queen does not go nutso, she lives on her good deeds and does so with a bunch more gratuitous sex and nudity? Is this too much to ask?

        I hear the McRib is back for a limited time only. Not that into fast food but never tried it … temptation man!

        There’s a list of songs that make no friggen sense to me but I really like them. I worry about that, seems … illogical somehow …

        Will Ruger ever offer a rebate or sale price on the PC Carbine?

        Does posting on TTAG make anyone’s ass look fat? Um, I’m asking for the wife …

        So many worries, so little time ………..

        • CWL (choking while laughing). Was sipping seltzer while reading this. Choked and it went up my nose. Dripped all over the keyboard. But so worth it!! One of the funniest on TTAG I’ve read so far!!!
          Maybe you can restore SNL to its former glory!

        • Yes. Finished HS in 3 yrs, did dual enrollment and had his associates at graduation, was the youngest EVER accepted into the ATC school in Valdosta GA. Youngest to graduate program, spent 6 months working the Valdosta tower AND doing tower instruction for the ATC school. Worth noting, did his solo flight for his private pilots license the first day he was old enough. His older brother also did the 3yr HS deal with dual enrollment and associates.

        • Very good, you are a rightfully proud papa.

          The minimum age for an ATC is 18, but most I know went through Air Force controller school before joining the FAA. It sounds like your son has a jump on all the competitors, I wish him good luck on his career.

        • Thanks Miner49er
          We managed to keep both of the boys focused on the right things in their youths, both have been impressive in their young adulthood. It not an easy thing to do with all the distractions that can trip up children in these times.

  10. It’s been a long week around the compound. Nothing like a feel good story to bring a smile to your day.

  11. Thr criminal in this case was 39 years old and still hadn’t figured life out, more than likely he never would have.

  12. Not but a minute to comment. About to grill ribeyes for everyone. Glad everything worked out for the business owner. No information on how old the son was, but dividing troops is almost never a good idea. One of my best friends defended his famly business during a race riot in the early ’70s. He was 15 armed with a Stevens 12 gauge twice barrel. His dad, Mr. Randy, had a Belgian Browning Auto-5. I disrember what Mr. Randy’s brother had. Anyway, crowd in the parking lot. No windows broken. I won’t second guess, but I wouldn’t have went outside. A short siege is no siege at all. Especially if it’s a grocery store. Anyway, good guys one. Bad guys 0. A good day.

    • “When I first read the title, “ how the hell do you shoot a crowbar“.”

      It isn’t important to be punctuationally correct, so long as you are morally right.

      • But is it morally correct to ignore the rules of grammar? It could cause misunderstanding that may lead to conflict that may lead to war that may lead to weapons escalation, that may lead to nuclear armageddon that may lead to extinction. All because a comma was misplaced.

        • “But is it morally correct to ignore the rules of grammar? It could cause misunderstanding that may lead to conflict that may lead to war that may lead to weapons escalation, that may lead to nuclear armageddon that may lead to extinction. All because a comma was misplaced.”

          Don’t know. Just borrowed a quote from Alexandria Occasionally Coherent when she was called-out for not knowing what she was talking about related to firearms.

        • Ah ha! Did not pick up on that. Good use of that quote!

          Around here we refer to her as Occassional Cortex.

  14. I bet the cops got that dead guy too. This has got to stop, bullets aint cheap and I figure if I shootzen it, its mine.

  16. “According to information from the DA’s office, a business owner, regardless of whether they are licensed to carry, is in lawful possession of a gun because of the castle doctrine.”

    Well, if that’s what the D.A.’s office stated, then they’re wrong. The castle doctrine speaks nothing to the lawfulness of a given individual, whether business owner, home owner, or cow jumping over the moon, to possess a firearm. There are many legal disqualifiers in state or federal law that can render a given individual’s possession of a firearm illega. A state’s castle doctrine has no bearing whatsoever on lawful possession. Castle doctrine only removes the defender’s duty to retreat. If you’re a prohibited possessor, you still are and that’s a separate issue.

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