Constitutional carry will happen. Remember, you read it here first. And HR 822 isn’t going away either. Two years ago, who’d have thought anything resembling it would have passed the House? Despite what Dennis Henigan, Carolyn McCarthy or any of the other anti-2A Carrie Nations would have you believe, like the march of gun rights in general, gun law rationalization is a tide that won’t be turned back. So until then, the best way to make gun owners’ lives easier is to expand gun law reciprocity between states. Along those lines…
Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine and New Mexico Department of Public Safety Cabinet Secretary Gorden E. Eden, Jr. signed an agreement that permits reciprocity between their states for citizens who have valid concealed-carry permits.
New Mexico’s and Ohio’s concealed carry laws are very similar to one another. Both states require a background check for long-term residents of their state or an FBI check for short-term residents of their states, and both require training in order to be eligible for a concealed-carry permit.
Don’t know which states honor your state’s permit? Click here.
Dan, I’d seen this earlier in a post here that Missouri honors Wisconsin’s CCW, but Wisconsin does not honor Missouri’s. Guess I’m going to have to check with some folks and see why it’s not reciprocal. We (MO) do back ground checks, training, classroom and qualification, so I’m kind of dumbfounded as to why they don’t. If I find out or if someone has the skinny on why, maybe they can post it here.
I was aware of that, too. I’d love to hear if you find anything out.
I went to the link from Sebudei, and if I’m reading their requirements correctly, they (WI) require a background and NCIC check. I know we (MO) do a background check, but don’t know if they also do an NCIC. Don’t know if that’s the problem, but will check further.
It seems like with certain states that reciprocity decisions are completely whimsical and/or arbitrary.
Cases in point: while it’s entirely possible I missed something, Texas and Nevada don’t have reciprocity even though I can’t find any significant differences in laws (then again Nevada only has reciprocity with 15 other states, so who knows what’s going on there). What really blew my mind is the fact that Minnesota honors Texas permits, but for whatever reason we won’t honor theirs. Again, I couldn’t find any significant reason to justify it.
I’m sure there are other states who have seemingly whimsical reciprocity decisions, these are just the weird ones I can think of.
Wisconsin I think is a special case, being new to the CCW world they’re still getting all their reciprocity agreements hammered out. Or it could be a case where one state has (or thinks it has) more restrictive licensing requirements than another state, so they won’t allow reciprocity with a state that has easier qualifications.
Interesting that OH recognizes my WA permit but NM doesn’t. WA has no classroom requirement, just fingerprints and b/c.
like the march of gun rights in general, gun law rationalization is a tide that won’t be turned back. Not if Obama can pack the Supreme Court with Liberal Judges.
Well, worst case scenario, we can always use some ideas of those liberal judge’s ancestors and re-enact the French Revolution in the US. =p
The French revolution is not one to be emulated. They went crazy beheading people until napoleon finally stepped in and crowned himself emperor.
Hey, the liberals are the ones who continually demand we be more like France – I think if a few heads were lopped off, they might change their minds about that.
I’m looking forward to the day that our country’s carry laws are as Washington and Jefferson envisioned it.
The Wisconsin State info page on concealed carry reciprocity is here:
http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/ConcealedCarry/reciprocity.asp
I’d love to hear the action plan for securing permit-less carry in New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Illinois, Maryland, California & Hawaii.
Any day now…
Sure, some in our community love to trot out the ‘trojan horse’ and ‘states rights’ arguments but none of these people have offered any tangible, viable plan to actually accomplish “constitutional” carry in any of the above mentioned states.
If you have to pass a law to achieve your goal, it’s not carrying under constitutional authority now, is it? It’s passing a statutory law to grant you a new privilege FROM the state which the state can at any time in the future TAKE AWAY from you.
Sure I think Permit-less carry will pass in more and more states in the next few years but if you think the New Jersey legislature is going to pass such a law, you’re not dealing with reality. Many more will resist for generations.
HR822 will make a damn good improvement and take real estate away from the antis. It will allow people the option of self protection when visiting family in these enclaves of tyranny.
“I’d love to hear the action plan for securing permit-less carry in New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Illinois, Maryland, California & Hawaii.”
It really boils down to the fact that, even 15 years ago, the idea of HR822 seemed like a major uphill battle. In the last 15-20 years, we’ve seen the swing from the majority of states being either ‘rights denied’ or ‘may issue’ with a few ‘shall issue’ states sprinkled in for good measure to the current state of affairs where we have a vast majority of the states being ‘shall issue,’ a few offering true constitutional carry, a few more still ‘may issue,’ and only ONE state in which the right is denied.
The TLDR here is that HR822 is only really on the table because a majority of the states currently have shall-issue licensing. Once the majority of states acknowledge the constitutionally protected rights of the people, and move to restore to the people those rights, then Constitutional carry will become a viable national action item.
Good luck in California since the big population centers and the Police and Prison Guards unions are staunchly against it. Most of the rural counties will issue, but forget Marin,San Mateo, San Fran, Alameda,Contra Costa, Santa Clara,LA.,Riverside,Orange or San Diego and that’s 90% of the population right there.
The last court case to attempt to force the issuance of permits in CA was denied solely on the justification that if one can still legally OC (even though it had to be unloaded) then the RKBA has not been removed. Given that OC has since been completely banned in CA, they are likely to be forced by the courts to issue permits much more widely.
I can’t speak for the majority of the states above, but the Commonwealth of PA is shall-issue for residents and non-residents, but in the latter case ONLY if they ALREADY have a license from their state of residence. This means that if you live in NJ, MD, or NY, you are unlikely to be able to get a PA LTCF, but if you live in VA you can get a non-resident PA LTCF fairly easily. I’ve got no idea how it works for Vermont residents…
The Oregon legislature continues to reject reciprocity, even with neighboring states.
I love to point out that Vermont is a Liberal-ish state with one Socialist senator (with a decent, if not perfect voting record on 2A issues), but has some of the most liberal (small “l”) gun laws in the country. It’s a tiny state, but could there be something to this?
The graphic for this article is wrong. Connecticut is a shall issue state, not may issue. Our permits are for carrying pistols and revolvers, open or concealed. Our three biggest cities might drag their feet during the permiting process, but all in all, CT is not that bad concerning gun laws. My only gripe with with our AWB which is totally ridculous. Magazine capacity is not restricted, but a rifle can only have 2 evil features to be considered compliant. Then there are the real dumb ones. I can’t own an AK in 7.62, but I can haz one in 5.56, but I can own a G3 clone in .308. Go figure.
That’s like the BM59 being banned in NJ, but the M1A/M14 being completely legal.
The whole reciprocity thing is a joke. I have a VA resident’s permit. It covers 31 states but not GA where my brother lives. However, I’ve applied for an AZ non-resident permit which covers GA and four other states not covered by the VA permit (AL, KS, NV, WI). It’s fairly easy for me to get the AZ permit thru the mail…. because I already have the VA permit. Kind of silly for GA not to just honor VA in the first place. I suppose that’s the whole point of HR822.
I’m heading to Atlanta today for a business trip and I have to leave my piece behind, despite my VA resident permit. The first time this has happened. Not happy.
VA Pete, the issue is on Virginia’s side. Georgia is a mutual reciprocity state. You recognize ours, we’ll happily recognize yours.
I’m against HB822 and think gun carriers should be as well. We will regret the day that it is signed by Obama. At that moment, you will learn that the NRA has sold us out again.
Here are some reasons:
1) The GAO studies will find that there is no database of Licensees (and we like it that way) and that licensing requirements to carry a gun vary widely. Senator Chuck Schumer will use this information to push for national standards which will include high fees, discretionary issuance, over 21 age, training, live fire, etc.
2) HB822 will discourage states from issuing non-resident licenses. Non-Resident licenses are desperately needed by residents of non-free states where they can not get a license from their home state (NJ, NY City, DC, Illinois).
3) The law only covers guns and concealed carry. What about other weapons like knives, tasers, OC spray?
4) Limiting the bill to concealed carry means that an out-of-state gun carrier who briefly and accidently exposes his firearm will lose the protection of the law
5) I can guarantee that NY City will end its carry licensing for regular people to stop guys like us from carrying in their perfectly safe and tranquil city ….. just at the very moment the courts could rule NY City’s discretionary system unconstitutional.
6) It will lock in place, for perpetuity, Licensing and destroy the chances for Constitutional Carry.
Of all of the infringements at the Federal level (gun free zones, NFA, ATF database of gun owners, import bans, etc.), this is the issue the NRA is pushing? One needs to wonder why. Perhaps its one step toward MANDATED training, which lines the NRA’s pocket.
Here are some reasons:
1) The GAO studies will find that there is no database of Licensees (and we like it that way) and that licensing requirements to carry a gun vary widely. Senator Chuck Schumer will use this information to push for national standards which will include high fees, discretionary issuance, over 21 age, training, live fire, etc.
1A) THE SKY IS FALLING! Seriously, unless you get a congressional swing even worse than when the Obama regime came to power there’s not even a chance of this happening in any political reality, notwithstanding the fundraising efforts of some so called 2A supporters. The fed has an obligation to reign in out of control state level tyrants who imprison people for exercising their 2nd amendment rights.
2) HB822 will discourage states from issuing non-resident licenses. Non-Resident licenses are desperately needed by residents of non-free states where they can not get a license from their home state (NJ, NY City, DC, Illinois).
2A) This is novel answer but the reality is that this is already going on in the states. South Carolina for example for years had a law which was extremely unfriendly to reciprocity. Part of it was a statutory requirement for “equal or stronger” issuance laws. Their law required a driver’s license and vision test. At the time there were 4 reciprocal states and they had just dropped UT from reciprocity using the “resident only” restriction. However, they left intact all the other states. None of their other states at the time required either a drivers license or a vision test.
However, your logic here is that if HR822 passes and becomes law that non resident licenses will disappear. I disagree that they will disappear entirely, but I suspect that in some states they could revise non-resident issuance laws. It could happen, but it is very unlikely.
3) The law only covers guns and concealed carry. What about other weapons like knives, tasers, OC spray?
3A) So the proposed law doesn’t give you everything you want, so we shouldn’t attempt to pass it for the improvements it does provide?
4) Limiting the bill to concealed carry means that an out-of-state gun carrier who briefly and accidently exposes his firearm will lose the protection of the law
4A) This is different… How? The same issue exists right now both within the states and for traveling among the several states. Gun owners handle it by and large and we’ll handle this.
5) I can guarantee that NY City will end its carry licensing for regular people to stop guys like us from carrying in their perfectly safe and tranquil city ….. just at the very moment the courts could rule NY City’s discretionary system unconstitutional.
6) It will lock in place, for perpetuity, Licensing and destroy the chances for Constitutional Carry.
Of all of the infringements at the Federal level (gun free zones, NFA, ATF database of gun owners, import bans, etc.), this is the issue the NRA is pushing? One needs to wonder why. Perhaps its one step toward MANDATED training, which lines the NRA’s pocket.
6A) Explain how the passage of HR822 will “destroy chances for (the so called) constitutional carry”. The new model of permit-less carry includes the provision for obtaining a state level permit, and allows for you to carry without one within the state. Why would a state ever rescind the ability for the government to make easy money off of the citizenry?
You forgot to mention the most likely reason NRA-ILA is pushing this issue – membership demand. I am still waiting for that plan to get “Constitutional Carry” in these “behind the wall” states.
One important thing to know about reciprocity is that not all reciprocity is the same. For example, Colorado recognizes many other state’s permits – but only if the permits are issued to residents. IOW, if you are a FL resident, you can concealed carry in CO on your FL permit. But if you are a resident of NJ your out-of-state FL permit is no good in CO.
Right. That adds to the inconvenience. I’ve been looking at this for awhile. The only way to get some kind of “national” carry is to have a number of different, overlapping permits from various states. As I mentioned above, I have the VA resident permit which covers 31 states. I’ve applied for the AZ permit which gives me 5 more. I would need to get the UT permit to get WA and MN. This is about as close to “national” as I could get and obviously doesn’t include the states that are difficult or impossible to get as a non-resident: IL, CA, NY, NJ, MD, HI, CO, OR, and most of NE. I agree with MikeSilver that any federal meddling is worrisome, but the situation as it stands is pretty convoluted.
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