This pocket dump includes a SIG P320C with a Pele flashlight and skull rings. It’s a cool looking SIG but it’s pretty customized. So…
When you’re choosing your carry gun – and your pocket dump in general – keep in mind that outsiders will be taking a close, skeptical look. Highly customized carry guns are a good way to end up paying your lawyer more money to defend your choices (as Mas Ayoob says, just add a zero to the check you write them).
Consider keeping your self-defense guns as close to factory as possible. Changes like night sights and extended base pads make sense but overhauling the entire gun and installing an ultra-light trigger? That’s another story. There’s more, but you get the idea.
Do you keep your carry guns factory or have you added numerous aftermarket parts?
I keep things stock because it’s convenient and cheaper. If I could have bought my .380 without a laser sight, I would have.
My .40 carry gun is stock too.
I carry a Sig P320 X-Carry in a Roland Special configuration (red dot, WML, compensator, magwell, mag extensions, Apex trigger kit). This whole “overzealous prosecutor will crucify you for having a modified gun” myth is, frankly, a bullshit myth. Carry what you want and what you shoot well. The only thing that matters in court is whether you were legally justified in utilizing lethal force. Enough with this fearmongering cow-towing to ignorant hoplophobes
Similar thoughts. The amount of asinine gunstore level nonsense on the internet is ridiculous.
One of the nice things about the internet is that Fudd-lore usually gets debunked pretty quickly because it’s usually easy to find someone who tried it in real life (Box of Truth, etc) if you bother to look for it.
Agreed – I have yet to see a single example of mods ever being brought up in court. I carry an SP-01 Shadow w/magwell, S7 comp, race hammer, custom disco/trigger bar/trigger, thumb rest safety, etc, etc, etc.
Well, the common misconception is that mods are never brought up in court. Wrong! Mas Ayoob has listed several cases where they are brought up. The fact of the matter (a fact that everyone talking about this subject online misses…until right now!), is that mods have never led to a defining reason or cause for a processicution. So, even though the outcome of a trial has never been “judged” on any mods, why…WHY, would anyone want to stack the odds against themselves? Knowing that in the right (wrong!) situation, the mod MAY be used against themselves.
One of his (Mas Ayoob) recent examples was a case when an officer had shot and killed a guy in a hallway of an apartment bldg. The location doesn’t matter. But during the trial, which was due to the belief that the killing was not necessary to end the ordeal, brought into evidence, the fact that the officers AR had a modified (replacement) dustcover that had “You’ F’d…fully spelled out, printed on it. It was attempted to prove that the officer was predisposed to be willing to kill, using his duty weapon.
It was argued, successfully, that he had that inscription there as a reminder for himself…that he was in a perilous situation. That or he was empty, as I remember the story going. But that doesn’t make any sense to me. Either way, he was acquitted. So, there you have it. It can be verified. It is just one of many cases where mods are brought up in court/defense cases.
So, no mods for me on any SD weapon. YMMV…
I remember that case. Officers gunned down a helpless, terrified, crying man, crawling on the ground, doing his best to follow confusing, conflicting instructions. That verdict was a travesty.
You make a reasonable point, however, I think that a functional, discreet mod (night sights, extended controls, extended mags, etc) is going to be perceived differently or not at all when compared to a purely aesthetic modification that shows a very “undiplomatic” disposition.
Cops fall under a different level of scrutiny when lawyers are going after big city bucks. Nothing in such a case resembles a DGU at all. The logical conclusion to such nanny-state pandering is don’t carry a gun, period. Since I carry a gun (absolutely ALL the time), I’m gonna make sure I like that gun because it’s a part of me, and I’ll do everything I can within reason to improve it’s accuracy and reliability and comfort to me. If I ever end up having to use it to defend myself, I’ll take every fucking edge I can get over the threat and any improvements I make are the dead guys problem.
My perspective may be somewhat different from some people’s – I don’t carry exclusively for self-defense, and have no real expectation of ever having to fend off a random attack (I just don’t look like a victim, for one thing). I carry a big heavy gun all the time to stay used to it, to be ready, to practice, to know it’s there if I need it, to be prepared for anything, and most of all because that’s just who I am – it’s a part of me. If I could get away with carrying a slung rifle all the time, believe me, I’d absolutely do that, too.
Maybe true. But this one example is just that, one example. Mas has documented and written about many cases, both LEO and not, in which mods are brought up in trial. Again, none of those mods led to a conviction on their own (yet), if there even was a conviction.
But again I ask, why introduce something that MAY work against you? Or just take up trial time, IE…$$$$, if you don’t need to?
Basic SD guns, Glock, M&P, etc, are designed to do what they need to do. For me, mods come into play to enhance a gun used in competition. Where it can only help, and never hurt. Unless any such mod goes against any rules for said competition.
If it ever happens that I end up in court for a SD shooting, I don’t want anything that can introduce questions, or taint my case. If mods can do that, and there is proof that they can and do, then no mods on SD guns for me…is all.
That case was talked about on this very site anyone who knows the details could Google it. I don’t see why it has to be a secret. The former cop got away with it. I just hope he never gets a job with another department.
I wouldn’t say the being justified is the only thing that matters in court… Many who have been justified ended up losing everything paying for their criminal/civil defense.
I would say that you (and your lawyer… and your expert witness) need to be able to explain why the mods were made and how they help you to be a safer, more effective shooter.
I don’t know what say, except that if you think that’s a good looking pistol you need 24″ chrome rims on your car. He probably does.
El Chapo’s slightly retarded cousin he keeps on the payroll because his aunt makes him?
*vomits*
And people say glock guys take their guns too far.
While I can’t carry in SoCal, I have put spring kits in my guns because I don’t like a stiff trigger (>12 lbs) – other than that, they are stock.
Since I’m going to get more enjoyment out of my carry gun if its customized, I customize it.
The odds of me shooting it in any given month: 100%
The odds of me shooting it to defend my life in any given month: .03% (guessing since finding that figure is nigh impossible.
Odds have to be way lower than that. We’ve got a population in the US of over 300 million. If .03% of that population were involved in shootings every month there would be 90,000 shootings a month (or more). Even .003% would be too high!
Your figure is fine by me.
Show us your hog, chud. You white cis pig-loving scum won’t be laughing as we ANTIFA Supersoldiers drag you off cissies off to the guillotines. #yesallcisscum
You’re an assclown.
His buddy is in jail right now for making much the same statements. Antifa is the dumbest bunch of fascists I’ve seen in quite a while.
Yup. He’s picking up soap.
I hope your not angry with possums too. We’ve got enough problems with those road rage killers
Antifa is an organization of customers white people. It is about the same as the KKK. Pro tip:. Black people can get along just find without you
has GOT to be a troll
Or, you just might be crying hysterically as you lie, gutshot and bleeding to death, on the pavement. There’s a lot of ways that scenario can play out, but we look forward to you trying just the same.
I wish ANTIFA would contribute more often. Sometimes we take ourselves too seriously. We could use the comic relief.
Super
Soldiers
That is some hilarious nonsense, there. Reality is going to hit some folks hard.
Hey now, these ANTIFA Super Soldiers are doing 3.5 sets of 10 reps curling their grandmother’s purple 5lb dumbbells!
Watch out!
Computer Information Services?
Eeew😛💩
So what do you think you’re chances are of ever seeing the gun again once It’s taken Into evidence by the police??
I don’t know where you live. In my life time I’ve had 4 guns taken into custody ,one twice, by the poleece, and I’ve got everyone back. Some took longer then others and most cost more to get them back then what they were worth, except the two that were stolen from me and used in robberies, I got them back a week after the conviction. One was fucked up when they evidently tried to remove the magazine from a high capacity magazine converted SKS. The bolt had to be open to remove the mag., Im sure they just pulled on it until the clip retainer bent. A hammer and punch fixed that.
Depends on the jurisdiction. Many antigun places have policies to not return guns unless forced to by a court order. Unless it has a lot of sentimental value or a really high dollar, like a Cabot, you’re better off buying a new one than paying a lawyer. In places where they respect gun and other rights, you’ll get the gun back once you’re cleared of charges, but it might not have been well taken care of, and it might be held for months until you are cleared.
Well if a pistal like that makes an antifa person angry I’d better not purchase a hundgan like that……. That Cz from yesterday’s post looked slick. I really like the looks of that gum. I shot one years ago and really liked it. I’m going to do some swapping and get one I think.
Kat, your advice is idiotic. What if the gun was painted rainbow colors and peace symbols and your rings were my little ponies? … would the shooting automatically be “good?”
I mean, obviously it would, right? Your defense attorney would just have to say, “look how sweet and innocent my client’s mods were. He/she would never shoot unless absolutely necessary.” Smh.
The case gets judged on its merits. That’s it. Draw if you have to, don’t if you don’t. Shoot if you have to, don’t if you don’t.
References to Massad Ayoob about lawyer fees… I’m not even going there.
Agree. This is the same drivel you hear from any moron near the Cabela’s gun counter. About the only thing a prosecutor could use well is one of those dust covers on an AR-15 that says “I like murder” or something stupid like that.
Massad Ayoob is THE expert witness I want my attorneys to use in a DGU.
And I keep my daily carry exactly stock except for sights.
Why give a prosecutor more avenues to attack you in court in front of a jury?
No, it’s not a myth that overzealous prosecutors will try anything to get a conviction, after all, it’s only their main job.
Case in point and one that was discussed recently on TTAG. James Love and the prosecutors attempts to paint him badly for using Hollow-points.
Of course the defense was ready but that didn’t stop the prosecutor from trying.
Ours is a Adversarial Criminal Justice System. It’s not about Justice, it’s about winning…or at least about surviving the process with your freedom intact.
If anyone has doubts about the ..”myth” just go sit in on a handful of trials and you can witness for yourself.
..just sayin
So you walk around carrying FMJs?
Of course not, but I can articulate on the stand why I use the particular defensive bullets that I carry.
I stated..” Of course the defense was ready but that didn’t stop the prosecutor from trying…”
What that means is that the defense had a ‘counter argument’ ready in case the prosecutor ‘went there’.
It’s really common sense, don’t feed the wolves (prosecutors). Don’t give them the ability to attack your choices in court with any credibility. Have a counter-argument ready.
At least Kat didn’t replay a previous dump like she’s been known to do. Also, not a full week of Glock’s. Maybe Kat is reading comments. Bravo.
Yeah, not into pretty guns or fancy showy things. Have tried simple, low cost practical upgrades from time to time. Improve on the sights, the trigger, no rhinestones or engravings and Hello Kitty fru fru for me thank you.
For $20 I tried the Ghost Ultimate drop-in trigger connector (3.5lb only) on my Ruger SR9. Liked it so I left it in. Also took out the magazine disconnect. So that’s that, a gun that fits my hand and I can shoot it well. Will say that if Ghost made a 5lb version, I would have tried that first.
Where’s the EDC holster? I’m guessing this range only gun, yeah? The amount of attention to detail on the frame is amazing.
On the one hand I’d like to think that tricking out a gun doesn’t matter in a court of law.
On the other hand the lawyers I’ve queried on the topic all say “Please don’t do that, it makes selling your story to a jury way, way harder if that ends up being what we have to do”.
And so, like ammo, if it’s way outside of what LE does with their service weapons, I try to avoid it on carry guns.
The lolyers you’ve queried have never ever had to do that. Ever. They are spouting pure speculation. No legal mechanical mods have ever been brought up in court at all in a DGU case.
That simply isn’t true. The smoothing out of the trigger on a service revolver was a key part of the prosecution of Officer Luis Alvarez in Miami in the 1980’s.
The prosecution charged the guy with manslaughter and argued that the gun discharged unintentionally due to the modifications to it which, they told the jury, constituted gross negligence on the part of Officer Alvarez.
The state also called an “expert witness” who testified that the gun was modified specifically to make it easier and more rapid to fire meaning it was intentionally made “more lethal” and easier to discharge. Further, Alvarez knew it was easier to fire and did this intentionally, leading to an ND and hence the gross negligence.
Modified gun + Janet Reno being accused of racism + Cop shooting armed black guy = manslaughter prosecution.
Alvarez was not convicted but he did end up being tried for this.
The entire case was based on a set of standard modifications that were common at the time even within the Miami PD and didn’t change anything about the gun to anything “out of spec”. They still were the SOLE reason for a prosecution and something the Officer’s defense attorney, Mark Seiden who has spoken about this very case at length, had to deal with to prevent a conviction.
NOT a DGU though. Cops and their service weapons are a different story, first of all, and second, he didn’t get convicted. Nothing I’m aware of has happened since, maybe this exception that proves the rule is why – it’s bullshit.
This looks like the pocket dump of a pimp in a sci-fi film.
I gotta agree, certainly not my cup of tea. But to each his/her/its own.
Pimp gun was what first came to my mind too.
I like to keep it much more simple and lower cost. What I want in a carry gun is reliability and reasonable accuracy at a low cost. I don’t want to carry something that would cost a lot to replace or is sentimental. Just in case the cops keep it or damage it while they hold it if God forbid I ever have to use it. Besides carrying daily it’s going to get scratches and holster wear. Tried several before buying. Glocks, Smiths, Rugers ended up with a XD subcompact. Fit my hand best. Found on sale for $299 with free shipping. Springfield was also giving away 3 mags and a range bag at the time. Ended up at $319 after transfer for gun with 5 mags. Only things I changed on it was adding night sights and a Pierce grip extension to get a third finger on the grip. Carry it daily.
We have reached the tipping point.
When everyday pocket dumps become lame show and tell for compensators, extended mags, optics, and race gun mods, rebellion becomes duty.
All this BOAT ANCHOR needs now is the new GoGun Gas Pedal for SIG.
cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0939/3532/products/side_view_in_MT_med_rez_1024x1024.jpg
Of course, with better control and more rounds on target, you could DUMP the silly comp and the obnoxious extended mag, and who would want that?
https://i.imgtc.com/KwGhCip.jpg
http://gogunusa.com
I have taken all of my hand guns to the frame and sanded/diamond filed the rough edges. That’s it. I DO love to upgrade my 10/22. But I no longer EDC my 10/22. ( Worked as watermaster/ditch rider for about 10k acres of ranch land) A .22 rifle on the ATV was almost a requirement. Can’t believe the damage gophers and badgers can can do to a ditch bank.
Ayoob needs to be taken with a grain of salt, or maybe a salt lick, in many areas. You might have a problem if the gun is engraved “Kill ’em all” or some such. Some might argue that a mod made the gun more likely to go off accidentally, which seems like an argument for a lesser charge of manslaughter or negligent homicide vs. 1st or 2nd homicide. I’m fine with mods that make the shooter more accurate and faster, as long as money isn’t being spent on gear instead of basic training, and they’re willing to potentially lose the gun. A standard gun with a few hundred or thousand dollars of mods isn’t different than buying a decked out Wilson, STI, Sig Legend, etc that comes with the mods already.
‘Watch the pennies and the dollars add up.’ Very true. Carry any gun you wish. But know that every dollar you spend on blinging out a gun, every dollar you spend on a fancy vroom, vroom mobile is money that you will not have to hire a good lawyer if you ever have to use that gun.
Toyota. S&W. Glock. Debt free. Money in the bank and the house is mine. I did not get that way by blinging out guns.
JWM; right on! Same here, now I can buy a tricked out gun IF I want. 25 year old PU and Ruger mostly.
What ARE you…some kind of fiscal conservative???
(end sarcasm)
Pretty much the route my spouse and I took…feelz good not to owe (other than the usual recurring debts: utilities, property taxes, etc)
the gun and all that other crap scream I LIKE TO LOOK GOOD WHILE IM SHOOTING PEOPLE BECAUSE ITS MY LIFESTYLE
no thanks
bone stock for me please
im not just worried about the prosecutor
im worried about a jury of my peers too
65 million people voted for hillary
some of them are sitting on juries right now
Prove it. I have yet to see the mythical “you’ll be in trouble for painting your gun.” That y’all keep talking about. I believe the Tempe police put that to rest after the “you’re f’d” dust cover.
I also think y’all should read a book on the rules of criminal procedure.
First off the huge monstrosity in the picture is about as concealable as an elephant in the trunk of a sub compact car. Its laughable.
Second. Any gun you carry should not have a lot of expensive custom work put in it because in a shooting they are going to take your gun even if its a justified shooting and they way cops handle guns is the way a Gorilla plays with a tire in a zoo, in other words he annihilates it and not without a grin on his face. I have seen cops actually throw confiscated guns across a room where they landed in a mesh wire box clattering and bouncing around. When you just sunk 300 bucks in a custom finish or worse bought a high end $3,000 1911 snob gun that would really make you ecstatic would it not? And customized guns shout to the jury that the guy carrying it was a kill crazed para military lunatic just out to use his new gun and blow someone away with a twisted grin on his face and the prosecuting attorney will harp on this throughout the trial.
I think too the idea of buying to $3,000 snob appeal 1911 and then having it confiscated and all beat up by the cops makes no sense when a $300 1911 will do the same job and losing $300 bucks is a heck of a lot better than losing $3,000. I know one guy that waited 5 years to get his gun back and then the cops told him they lost it. Yah sure they lose a $3,000 gun and no one knows what happened to it. The European justice system has nothing over on American Cop corruption system.
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Without warning orchestrate gimmicks like pills, jelqing exercises, penis pumps etc. will exclusively promote your penis look Bigger being increasing blood end to the penis. Stretching your penis or hanging weights grotch.exprud.se/online-konsultation/18-tommer-pik-sex.php on your penis pleasure simply duress unalterable mar to your penis so don’t do anything dim-witted like that to your penis.
In systematization to scrutinization whether increased natural bustle could leading up to evolutionary changes in the word up of genitals, the researchers selected pairs of burying beetles with either valued or iniquitous mating rates. After monitoring reophi.disla.se/sund-krop/hvilken-skrifttype.php the two groups of insects ages again ten generations, they discovered that those who had making comprehensible more without surcease after on assorted occasions evolved longer.
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Penis pumps comprise placing a tube across the penis and then pumping acquittance the spirit to appearance a vacuum. The vacuum draws blood into the penis and makes it swell. Vacuum devices portcol.exproc.se/godt-liv/prinsessen-og-morderen-opgaver.php are every on occasions inured to in the sawn-off label treatment of impotence. But overusing a penis swell can extermination the build-up of the penis, pre-eminent to weaker erections.
The unexceptional full-grown, mask-like hardened penis is between five and seven inches long. Some are smaller some are bigger. Smaller flaccid penises be parochial to luxuriate more proportionally during an erection buzve.ciotor.se/leve-sammen/tai-trusser.php than larger flaccid penises. And some penises are too plenteous to aged into fully erect. Penises fuck up in in all bold shapes and sizes. We’re all merest atypical and that’s normal.
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