Don’t bring a knife or a crowbar to a baseball bat fight. That is all. (Mobile users click here if necessary.) . . .

The Moms who are Demanding some sort of Action will be holding a rally (if you can call 10 people a rally) on the west steps of the Colorado State Capitol in Denver this Saturday, 10/26, from 10-10:30 a.m. In response, Gun Rights Across America – Colorado will be holding a counter-event nearby. If you’re in the neighborhood, take a half hour out of your morning and help out, why don’t you?

The Yankee Marshal asks, “Guns with your Halloween costume?” What say you? (Click through and tell him, too. He wants to hear your answers, possibly more than I do.)

 
You’ll recall Nick recently reviewed the Beretta 93R, the ultra-rare select fire machine pistol. YouTuber chaos311clarity gets the chance to shoot a 93R that is truly unique (like the Highlander, there’s only one), as it’s made not of aluminum and steel, but titanium. It’s also green.

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70 COMMENTS

  1. That first video looks like a skit from the Benny Hill Show.

    One year I dressed up as the Engineer from Team Fortress 2. This worked out well for 2 reasons: 1, I actually AM an Engineer (at the time I was an engineering major), and 2, It allowed me to tuck my fully loaded CZ 82 into my work belt and no one even thought twice about it.

    • I thought I saw something flying from the perps head when he got hit, something small and white like a tooth (or teeth)

  3. Ow, I cringe just thinking about that kind of blow to the head; FBI crime stats say that better than 60% of all murders are committed with hands, feet and a blunt striking tools; I can see how easy that would be.

    Where there is a will, there is a way; the person is the weapon; every thing else is simply the tool of the weapons will, thought and then the action. Nice action with that chair as well.

    • That would be incorrect, ThomasR. Criminals use firearms for their murder weapon in about 65% of murders. Criminals’ next favorite murder weapons are edged weapons (knifes and swords) accounting for about 25% of all murders. The remaining few percent are roughly split between bludgeons and hands/feet.

      What is significant is to note that criminals use their hands/feet to murder people slightly more often than they use long guns.

  5. How appropriate to watch this during game 2 with St. Louis up 1 zip.
    Being a baseball nut, I noticed the guys grip on the bat was all wrong.

  6. FD gets there that much faster than the cops? Sheesh.
    Oh, yeah, that does go to some of the philosophy of this site, doesn’t it?

    • I was astounded by the slow response. Then I stopped to realize, with shock, that 8.5 minutes is a GOOD response time in most urban cores and in rural areas. Damn. May-issue-but-probably-not is worse than I thought. Ronald Noble, Secretary General of Interpol, is definitely on the right track. There aren’t enough cops in Greater San Francisco or New York City to keep both the politicians-and-bankers but also the average person…safe. No way. Never.

      • 8 1/2 minutes is pretty good, yeah.
        If you live in a bad neighborhood, the response time is usually “an hour after the crook is gone and you’re approaching room temperature”.

        • When cops are 8.5min away I’d rather have my S&W 6906 on my hip that has a response time under one second!

    • I thought it was an interesting question. I don’t live in an open carry state, so that’s out, but I thought the James Bond thing was interesting.

      • I think this year I’m gonna go as Slo Joe Biden complete with open carry shotgun…. might be interesting.

    • +1

      That guy is gonna look at baseball bats for the rest of his life and just feel sore remembering how hard he got his skull cracked. Serves him right.

  11. I had a pretty nice concussion about a year ago. Being knocked out like that REALLY sucks.

    You spend days throwing up, and motor skills are lessened for weeks. I guarantee while the firefighters had him pinned he had NO idea where he was, and was scared for his life.

    What you get for robbing a place at knife point…

  13. If I have heard correctly, when law enforcement officers are trained, they are trained to NOT hit someone in the head with their batons because that’s considered lethal force (I reserve the right to be wrong, and if I am, I’m sure I’ll hear about it). I’m not complaining about the goblin getting a pop to the noggin, just think he should thank his lucky stars (which he probably saw just then) that he DID live to tell the tale… in the lockup

    • It’s true in western WA, at least. Impact weapon to the head = deadly force, and there better be a reason for it.

      Catch some of the older guys in a good mood though, and they’ll tell you stories about the ‘wood shampoo’ back when they could use it.

      • “and there better be a reason for it.”
        The guy with the bat was behind the counter and an overhand swing was the only way to use it.
        That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

    • I don’t know about police training but I do know that even a punch to the head can kill. I know, through local news, about five people who suffered head injuries in fights or assaults. Two died. Two went into comas that lasted from days to months. One suffered permanent disability. In all five cases, the injury was sufficient to legally justify defense using deadly force. A while ago, I fell on my face and gave myself a split lip and a black eye. The emergency room physician insisted on an MRI to be sure I didn’t have a brain hemorrhage. The notion that getting hit in the head is no big thing is horseshit.

    • When I went through Military Police training back in the 80’s, overhand strikes and blows to the head, neck and chest were strictly forbidden. The upper arms were to be avoided to minimize the chance of striking the subject with a deadly blow. If deadly force was justified, there was a M1911A1 at hand.

      We weren’t dealing with street thugs most of the time and the baton had a place in the kind of law enforcement we were doing but if I were a civilian LEO today, I doubt that I would bother carrying one.

  14. Guns are much more effective, but let’s be honest. There really is something about a bat that has no substitute.

    • The lion tamer was doing okay with the stool. Kept the knife and tire iron at a safe distance. Then he got to put the boot to dude after dude got knocked out.

  15. I don’t think that the TTAG has given proper respect for this type of weapon.

    The knife has all the attention – However a heavy bat, 3 foot piece of rebar, or pickaxe handle is a pretty effective tool in the right hands.

    • The bat certainly has a much more personal feel. A gun will kill someone, but it does all the work. With a bat, there’s no mistaking that I’m beating the snot out of you.

    • The knife is lethal faster and relies less on the power and athleticism of the wielder to inflict damage. It’s major draw backs are it’s very limited range and inability to inflict disabling wounds on or through bone.

      Knives are relatively ineffective against a decent club, even improvise, do to being out ranged and the clubs more rapid incapacitating effect. In essence most clubs can simply be swung indiscriminately and powerfully within out regard to target and still inflict incapacitating injury while the knife has to be maneuvered into position to attack soft targets, hard to do when being bludgeoned by a longer weapon.

      Consider that all the cuts to the outsides of the forearms (a common defensive injury against a knife) are highly unlikely to incapacitate the arm while being stuck in the forearm with a club may well deaden the nerves or break the bones. Slashes to the face and head are seldom incapacitating from a knife while. . . well the club tells it’s own story with head strikes.

      Death from either clubbing or knifing usually occur on the ground after a preponderance of lesser injuries has largely incapacitated the opponent, or from bleed out with the knife or brain swelling or internal bleeding due to organ damage with the club.

      That said, when using melee weapons, aggression and violence of action are usually the deciding factor. One party really wants to do it and the other doesn’t and thus loses.

      • Ardent. In my youth I read an account by a European, maybe Dutch or French, who was part of the old colonial system over in Indo Chian or Malaysia. Don’t remember the exact details. What stands out for me is that this guy as part of his duties had to make rounds of the local subject villages.

        As was the fashion of the time he carried a revolver in a full flap holster under a long coat. He also carried a stout walking stick every where he went. The stick allowed him to cross streams more safely and kept snakes and village dogs at a safe distance.

        The local folks were denied firearms as they were subjects, not citizens. They were mostly farmers and had plenty of edged tools to work with.

        Over the course of his career he was attacked several times by irate locals with machete type weapons and knives. The attacks were sudden and at close range. Never once did he pull his revolver til after the attack. He didn’t have time. He defended himself each time with the stick. It was effective enough that he never was injured.

  17. I thought you said there was a crowbar in this video. I was picturing a REAL crowbar — 28-plus inches of solid steel with a hook on the end to dig brains out of skulls. But all I see is a little cat’s paw; a glorified nail puller.

    Not that I’m complaining. I’m okay with the bad guys choosing a lame weapon and getting their asses kicked.

  21. I remember when i had my wisdom teeth out hearing the sound of the oral surgeon breaking the teeth to remove them through the incision. I imagine that’s similar to what this guy heard.

  22. A baseball bat can be a devastatingly effective weapon, but only under one condition – you must be fully prepared/intent on using it. You must first accept that any intruder you encounter is probably not a Beta male, and probably not too bright either. If you confront him with a firearm it is in effect an instant challenge to fight to the death. Most intruders (but not all) will realize the consequence of losing that fight and survival instincts will quickly ensue – even though they may be armed themselves they are likely to turn tail and run. But confront an intruder with a baseball bat and you’d best be intent on using it. If he determines that he has more testosterone than you, he is likely to take you up on that challenge and will likely take that bat from you and use it on you.

    If you are going to use a bat in self defense, bluffing is a really, really bad idea.

    • Seconded; When using melee weapons it’s usually the more aggressive party that prevails. If you’re trying to avoid being hurt and not truly intent on hurting the other guy you’re probably losing. If you’re hell bent on killing your opponent, even at risk of being seriously injured yourself, and you ‘climb on’, staying in range, advancing and attacking constantly, you’re likely winning.

      When you’re facing a violent criminal you have to remember that while you find it abhorrent to hit someone with a bat he likely doesn’t have such qualms and it’s probably not the first time he’s been in a situation in which combat might lead to death, his or the other guys. Ethics, morality and largely fear don’t play into the criminal mindset much. What that sort understand is pain, injury and death.

    • According to the video, they firefighters were already in the area doing a routine inspection. But yeah… took FOREVER for the cops to arrive. A sad reminder that in life or death situations, sometimes the only person you’re gonna be able to rely on is yourself.

  24. I love the way the one firefighter put his gloves on before handling the POS. Good hygiene is important.

    • Application of “Personal Protective Equipment” or “PPE” is the first step in Emergency Response. Would-be robber dude (Did Not Abide) looked to be bleeding, based on the schmear-mark on the carpet. One of the most dangerous things any of those folks encountered that day was the potential of contact with blood-bourne pathogens. And given the dim-witted attempt at broad-daylight, high traffic robbery with a small pry-bar, I’m also gonna say drug use was a factor, increasing the likelihood of cooties. Smart move by Mr. Fireman.

  25. This is a good argument to replace aluminum baseball bats with good old fashioned hardwood baseball bats. The aluminum has a fair amount of give when you hit a hard object (such as a violent criminal’s skull). A wood baseball bat on the other hand is effectively rock hard when contacting any body part on a violent criminal.

  27. Am I the only one who was getting the ‘create distance and prepare to draw’ vibe from the two hyperactive guys in hoodies digging simultaneously in their back packs upon entering the store? These guys had ‘we’re pulling weapons for a robbery’ written all over them.

    I’m afraid that if I were in such a situation with their body language and desperate digging in those back packs I might well have drawn on a pair of proselytizers coming out of those bags with religious tracts.

    Trust your instincts I guess, because those two sure looked like they were a threat from the moment they came through the door.

    • That’s exactly what I thought. I half expected those two schmucks to look up into the barrel of a gun when they finished digging around in their bags. Their body language when they came in had bad intent written all over it.

      Of course it’s probably easier to see when we’re watching a video and pretty much expecting to see something like that. At the coffee counter with noise and distraction and people coming and going, it would be a lot easier to miss that kind of thing.

  29. When seconds count, the police show up in three minutes and fifty seconds, and only as one small woman.

    Those firemen were johnny on the spot. I enjoyed watching them put that thug to the ground.

  30. Guys you are all missing the point. We need to license baseball bats and receive proper training on the safe use of a bat. Without common since bat laws our kids are not safe. We should stop promoting this culture of baseball and cancel the world series and remove baseball programs from all our schools. We should make schools bat free zones.This is serious folks! Who is with me…

  31. Only problem I see is that the guy with the bat stopped swinging…. This clown will get off with a headache, and court supervision, just to do it again…. Bloody pulps can get NO court supervision, and are NOT a drain on taxpayer $$$, you dig a hole, and dispose of trash properly, end of story…. But, I’m a hardass like that….

  33. Gotta love the fireman calmly putting on his gloves. Good man.

    I’m not sure why the customer thought it was a good idea to stand in the doorway, blocking the criminals’ exit like that. It would have been especially bad if he ended up being the backstop for the proprietor’s bullets. Or prevented him from shooting back at all.

    ‘Course once you had one wounded and outnumbered criminal, it makes a lot more sense.

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