Daily Digest: Rifles Next, a Butthurt Burglar and a Very Mad Mutt

1. It would be nice if people would check to see if permit holders from “weak” requirement states are any more likely to randomly draw their gun than those from “strong” requirement states. I’m pretty sure there is no correlation there whatsoever.

   • Many of the “weak requirements” states are may-issue liberal strongholds.

     IIRC in New Jersey you don’t really have to do much, maybe submit photographs and a “letter of need” and pay $20.

     No class
     No law training
     No range Training
     No fingerprints
     Background Check? Maybe?

     I think they figured once you’ve become rich enough to found a corrupt public official’s election campaign, why should you have to waste time at a class?

     • I think you need to go look up NJ gun laws again.
       background check, references, finger printing, permit to BUY a firearm (pay for permission to purchase one gun per month which may be denied), photo copy DL and SS card, wait at least 30 days. Now you are able to purchase a gun, you still need to go through more hoops to carry that firearm, like more references, “justifiable evidence you need to carry”, evidence of training, serial number of every firearm you are going to carry, NJ does not accept out of state carry paperwork, you can’t carry hollow points.
       Sorry but the only thing you’ve gotten correct is “liberal stronghold”. NJ makes Ma look almost gun friendly.

   • Would be nice. Unfortunately, actual public safety is not the standard by which gun control proponents measure success.

   • That’s not the point. The point is whether a state has the authority, within existing constitutional parameters, to make its own laws and not be compelled by the federal governmnet to accept another state’s legal standards.

     Scratch a states’ rights supporter and you’ll find someone whose party just doesn’t control the federal government at the moment.

     • I’d be happy if ALL of the states would just obey the friggin Constitution. Shall. NOT. Be. INFRINGED. It says to Keep and BEAR Arms. I don’t care if the state says you gotta cover it up or wear it open, they can’t prohibit or require outrageous burdens on citizens of ANY state.

2. First in? Gabby and Mark. Staying relavent by TTAG. That’s all I got…

3. Sen. Ernst is also the Senates first female combat vet (which btw, means she served in a ‘combat tour’ not that she fought in a battle). She’s also about 15 years younger than she looks.

   • Yes. Senator Ernst is a pretty good conservative but the never served ad twits that sold her as a “combat vet” need a sharp buttstroke. A truck company defines REMF.

     Shaping up to be a pretty good Senator. ANYONE would be an improvement over Harkin.

     • Remember that time Harkin ran for president? (Oooo… I member!) I think Lincoln Chafee got farther than Uncle Tom.

     • As an infantry combat vet, I have to say, a truck company could just as easily get into some shit as anybody else in either OEF or OIF. Convoys get attacked all the time. I don’t know if this is the case for her, but it’s a possibility. Pogs are pogs, but sometimes they get shot at too.

4. (M4) Upgrade to what? Install a “Star Wars” snap on kit and re-issue them? The M4 is the pinnicle of the AR. If it’s not broke etc….

   • Respectfully, the M4 is a good weapon. Arguably, she’s he best bang for the buck. However, there are several improvements that could be made- piston driven vs gas impingement, fully ambidextrous controls, alternate calibers, improved/stowaway sights, improved trigger, internal lubricant coatings, etc. I like my M4, especially now that we have a giggle switch (which I’ll probably never use), but she has some drawbacks that could be addressed. The Army has been trying to finagle a new rifle for a few years now. Remember the XM8, SCAR, Masada/ACR??? Maybe with this better political/military climate we can.

     • Indeed. Beyond a doubt, there are better rifles on the market. But how much better? Better enough to justify the massive expense, training time, logistical/armorer issue, etc? Arguably not.

     • I’ll second the ACR. It’s a damn fine rifle at this point in its development. No doubt a government contract and increased production will have some economy of scale, but the price has come down nicely to the point it’s the lowest cost of its peer rifles (ACR, SCAR 16, XCR, and Bren 805). And honestly, I’d take it over all of them. Actually, I did.

       • You mean the same semi-auto ACR that has a propensity for going full-auto without warning? lol

       • It has MSRP higher than several of the others you mentioned. It probably just doesn’t sell that well.

     • Direct impingement guns function much better and consistently then gas piston guns when you’re speaking about the AR-15 platform M16 platform. The only company that makes a decent gas piston gun is PWS most of the other ones make the gun feel front-heavy and aren’t reliable. I prefer a direct impingement gun over any gas piston gun when it comes to the Eugene Stoner rifle. It was never designed to work off gas piston and everyone’s afterthought to make it that way pretty much sucks. Ambidextrous safeties that’s a joke in basic they teach you how to shoot left handed or right handed no matter if the gun has a ambidextrous safety or not I remember my drill instructor telling one of the lefties learn how to shoot right-handed I left and he did and did it pretty damn well better than I would have been able to do I tell you that. The gun as a weapon system only needs a couple of things to bring It full circle that would have to be a trigger free float handguard and an optic. That’s all it needs you think he needs anything else you’re talking about a private gun not a United States government gun designed for infantry soldiers.

       • I am starting to see it that. I do think one of the fail points of piston ARs is that, in order to hand with gas guns in terms of weight, they are built too “slight”. If you look at rifles (not just ARs) that use a piston design, and that work, they tend to be beefier.

         Also, the gas AR/M16/M4 platform is the most tweaked small arms platform on the planet. Today’s AR’s are much better than the ones from 20+ years ago. I think with that level of tweaking piston ARs could run as well or better than gas ARs but that is not going to happen.

     • With exception of gas piston and alternate calibers, most of those upgrades are things that the Army is doing or is planning to do. The Army actually takes a look a new ways to improve the M4 every few years.

     • “However, there are several improvements that could be made- piston driven vs gas impingement, fully ambidextrous controls, alternate calibers, improved/stowaway sights, improved trigger, internal lubricant coatings, etc. ”

       YAR0892 gets it.

       I immediately thought of piston driven, ambidextrous controls, and alternate calibers. These are fairly simple to implement. Why they have not happened is beyond me.

       • I’m not expert, but I won’t let that stop me…
         Alternate calibers actually has a good reason against it: Supply. Our military has to contend with several different 5.56 rounds.
         Besides, if any special unit wants an alternate caliber, what’s stopping them from getting new uppers, and making them themselves? If you really want .300 Blackout, go for it. Or get AKs. 🙂

     • Instead of spending all that money to come up with a new rifle that would result only in incremental improvement, issue an updated M4 to every law abiding, able bodied, male, adult citizen, along with 500 rounds a year. And require those rounds be used for practice. Oooops. Forget the male qualifier. Another 150 million rifles at least. By far the most cost effective and formidable militia in history. Nahh… they’d never go for something like that.

   • Every time the US military tries to create a more “sophisticated” small arm it goes badly, usually with massive per-unit cost overruns and weight and bulk that is just untenable for soldiers in the field. Jeez, remember the OICW?

     I mean, to be fair, it took awhile to get the M4 system to where it is today from its roots and the original M16 had its problems but what issues do we have with current weapons that would be cured by ‘sophisticated’ new tools, as opposed to either cribbing from existing rifles or innovating small steps?

     • Kinda where I was headed- look to the SCAR/Masada or another rifle the Industry guys came up with a few years back to enter. They may not have been game-changers, but they sure gave the industry a nice kick start to come up with new ideas. The option is at least worth exploring IMO. If it turns out the M4 is no-shit the best we have, then cerakote it to tan499 for camo purposes and roll with it from there. That right there, along with some ambidextrous controls would make me happy as can be.

   • Problem is the trigger when I first went over to Iraq in 1991 we had M16 a twos and I had very limited problems with my M16 A2 once I went from wet Lube to dry lube on the bolt carrier group. The M4 the trigger is absolutely crap. You get a pool wait anywhere from five to 10 pounds. The problem is in the design of the trigger 3 round burst is a joke it causes the trigger to be stiffer then a brick wall. I had times when I was in combat that I check to make sure my weapon was not on safety because of the amount of trigger weight I had to depress to get it to go bang. It really affects your accuracy when you’re shooting out the to 300 yards with that rifle. I recommend a pull weight of no greater than 5.5 pounds with no less than four and three quarter pounds. That would give you enough trigger to be able to reach out the for 500 yards.

   • Perhaps a more potent caliber. There are tons of them out there vying for attention. I’m sure many can outperform the old 5.56.

     Although this would also throw a lot of research into the new 855A1 out the window.

     • I could see them switching to the 6.8 spc2. Not the blkout. But a piston just isn’t much better for any environment besides a marine environment. Maybe ambidextrous controls.

   • The M4 could be easily upgraded with a Magpul MOE grip, CTR stock, and a free-float rail (preferably in KeyMod or MLOK, since we will still have tons of Picatinny-compatible attachments in our stock we could just add Pic-rails as needed), not to mention an upgraded trigger. Cost a few million, but NOTHING like the cost of adopting an entirely new rifle or new caliber. And if the Army DID decide to adopt a new caliber, easy enough to issue new barrels, as long as the new round is compatible with AR-15 magazines and the standard BCG.

5. Burglar wants $10M after cops shot him in the butt.
   And that, boys and girls is why we don’t shoot to wound…

   • IF his account is correct he would have a very good case based on Tennessee v. Garner (which have very similar facts). Cops can’t shoot a fleeing felon just for fleeing.

     But that’s a big if.

     • In the John Wick theme, it is certainly possible to turn and shoot at, or point your weapon or something that looks like a weapon at someone behind you simply by rotating your torso. Your big butt remains an obvious target. Just cause you were hit in the ass doesn’t mean you were running away/fleeing.

       • Yes but in the article the burglar says the cops shot him as he was fleeing while unarmed, and that’s a problem. If you can shoot any fleeing felon by saying he could have a gun that pretty much negates the SCOTUS ruling.

         Now, that’s what HE says. So it’s not necessarily the case…

       • No, I am pretty sure the lawyer who claims to speak for the criminal says he was fleeing. You know, the lawyer who will likely get between 3 and 5 million if he wins this case. Fortunately, there is only a 1 in 40 chance he will win, but of course, if the lawyer files enough lawsuits, he will eventually be a rich man. It is called the legal lottery.

         And it is common for violent offenders to pivot between facing toward and away from a good guy with a gun. I once ran through a series of video simulations where a simulated criminal would run and shoot back at me. Half my shots drilled the simulated criminal in the back side.

       • No, I am pretty sure the lawyer who claims to speak for the criminal says he was fleeing. You know, the lawyer who will likely get between 3 and 5 million if he wins this case. Fortunately, there is only a 1 in 40 chance he will win, but of course, if the lawyer files enough lawsuits, he will eventually be a rich man. It is called the legal lottery.

         And it is common for violent offenders to pivot between facing toward and away from a good guy with a gun. I once ran through a series of video simulations where a simulated criminal would run and shoot back at me. Half my shots drilled the simulated criminal in the back side.

       • Bob: “No, I am pretty sure the lawyer who claims to speak for the criminal says he was fleeing.”

         The idiot is representing himself. (Read the link)
         Probably because he doesn’t have the $12.50 the only lawyer he could find to take his case wanted.

     • Tennessee v. Garner is one of those left wing SCotUS cases based on a legal fiction. Shooting a felon is not a seizure. One of the many pieces of bullshit we need overturned one we get a 7:2 conservative majority on the court in the next few years.

       • We also need to overturn Terry v Ohio and return 4th Amendment protections to the American people. “Officer safety” is no reason for a government employee to put his hands on an American citizen for a search. If a government employee wants to search a citizen for any reason, get a warrant and the citizen is free to go on his way while you are filling out paper work.

         Also, you are only a felon after you have been convicted in a court of law, that whole innocent until proven guilty thing.

       • Show me where the 4th amendment was ever intended to apply to your person and not your home.

   • Bingo. 25 cent round vs. $10M lawsuit

6. Anyone here live in Iowa? Call Ernst’s office and ask for NFA repeal while mentioning it will drop the cost of any upgrades dramatically.

   • Baby steps Bud, baby steps. First let’s get everyone used to the notion that ‘silencers’ are not exclusively the tools of assassins. Then we can work on making them understand the absurdity of the magic 16″ barrel, etc. Personally, having a Permit to Carry Weapons (Iowa), I’m more concerned with eliminating restrictions on where I can carry (New Jersey), or elimination of the unconstitutional permit requirement, than about what I can keep in my gun safe.

7. The Army needs to upgrade their rifles a lot more than buying a new pistol. The least cost option would be to buy an AR-15 chambered in a more effective caliber or just buy an AR-10 chambered in 243.

   • You can not be serious.

     • I am quite serious. The 6.8mm is a better cartridge for short action AR than the 5.56. It is relatively inexpense upgrade. An AR-10 chambered in 243 firing a 58 grain high velocity round has almost twice the energy of a 5.56 and relative low recoil. Since Army fire doctrine is semiautomatic for almost all engagements moving to a long action patform shouldn’t be a problem. An AR-10 chambered in 243 is going to lighter than M-14.

       • Will they be issues with new barrels to replace all the ones they are going to burn out?

       • .243 is not a particularly hot round. It’s a .308 case necked down to .243. I think you are confusing it with .243 WSM.

       • Honestly I like the idea of a 6MM “10” platform gun but more as a DM type rifle vs a standard issue gun.

         The 243 has a rep as a barrel burner and a “10” platform gun is going to hinder ammo capacity in the boonies; It’s not like where we just pull the car up and drag our stuff 50 foot to shoot at something.

         That said my AR-10 is probably going to be 243. Haven’t gotten a barrel for it yet, but I think it will be fun and highly versatile.

       • I don’t see where .243 gets that reputation from. Maybe if all you shoot is Hornady Superperformance Varmint you can burn your barrel up but anything round from 75g up is going to use less powder than a standard .308. The muzzle velocities from these rounds are no higher than .223/5.56. I don’t here anyone calling those rounds barrel burners.

       • So just stick with AR10 in 7.62x51mm which is a perfectly satisfactory and widely used round.

   • I’m seriously a bit puzzled as to how the 6.8spc round fizzled as it seemed to me to be the perfect compromise between terminal ballistics at intermediate ranges and low weight and recoil. But then compromise rounds are apt to fizzle (cough – .40S&W – cough).

     • The difference being that 6.8 actually fills a niche, whereas .40 S&W is utterly pointless.

       • If you could only have one riffle, an A R15 in 6.8spc (giggle switch optional) would probably be the best choice, but why in a ‘free country’ would you feel the need to limit yourself to one rif le? On the other hand, if you could only have one handg un it should probably be in .357 magnum.

       • .40 is far from pointless. You can blab on about how 9mm +P+P+P+P+P+P+++++P+++++++++++++++++++P+ is all one needs if they need maximum energy from a pistol, but if you really need that much power, move up to a bigger caliber like .40 because 9mm was never built to be a powerhouse. .40 was built to be a stopper and it is a good stopper, just not as cheap as 9mm because 9mm is a military cartridge and military cartridges are mass produced.

         Also, with a .40, you can easily convert it down to a 9mm and if the .357 Sig takes off, you can convert it to that too.

       • If.

       • .40S&W is utterly pointless?

         Someone should probably tell the government that it’s a useless cartridge since it’s a very popular LEO cartridge and has, as I understand it, basically replaced the 9mm in the Coast Guard’s armory. Better performance than 9mm, more manageable than 10mm for most people.

       • 30 years ago when it was designed, .40 S&W filled a niche between the capacity of the 9mm and the power of the .45.

         The magazine ban was what catapulted this compromise cartridge into stardom. If not for the 10rd magazine ban, ‘wonder nines’ would have dominated, but it turns out 10 rounds in .40 S&W makes for a reasonably sized compact pistol, with clear advantages over a 10rd 9mm. The sunset of the AWB and magazine ban along with further advances in projectile performance and designing around the FBI performance standard have rendered the performance gap between .40 and 9mm small and irrelevant, and with the higher capacity and lower recoil of 9mm, there is little reason to recommend .40 anymore.

8. Another RFP/RFQ for individual combat arms?

   Not this crap again.

   How many millions of dollars, and decades of BS, have we poured down this rathole now?

   • To be fair, the AR is over 50 years old at this point. We should probably start looking into next gen small arms so we aren’t caught with our pants down when the next big thing becomes a thing.

     • The Ma Deuce is older than that, and they’re still using it.

     • The AR was considered an interim rifle to begin with. They have been looking for a replacement on and off for 50 years. The easiest remedy to its inadequate round is to use the rifle’s modularity to upgrade to 6.8 SPC. The M-16 was the answer when the Army was enamored with spray and pray.

       You can find an old Army video comparing the AK, M-16 and the M-14 and the visual evidence shows that M-14 didn’t even give much away in supressive fire. If it weren’t for SLA Marshall we might still be using the M-14.

       • I am with tdiinva (now in Wisconsin) on this one.

         I understand the incredible value of a much lighter weight rifle, much higher round count, and minimal recoil … all which make the AR-15/M4 platform as useful as it is.

         I also understand that the 5.56 x 45mm round, especially with full metal jacket spitzer bullets have far from ideal terminal ballistics, especially past 150 to 200 yards.

         That is why I favor something slightly different. An AR-10 platform, with the same level of standardization (and hence modularity) as the AR-15 platform sounds outstanding, especially chambered in .243 Winchester (thus limiting maximum recoil and, in turn, necessary receiver strength/weight). This platform would enable rounds with superior terminal ballistics — especially at longer ranges — while keeping weight to a minimum. And you would still be able to carry around a fairly large quantity of ammunition. The best part: you could tailor your ammunition to your expected combat scenario. Expecting to engage combatants at 400 yards? Use 105 grain bullets. Expecting to engage combatants at less than 150 yards? Go with 75 grain bullets. Or manufacture “reduced recoil” 105 grain bullets for short range engagements.

     • That’s been the argument in the last three searches for a new infantry rifle, at great expense to the taxpayers, all without budging the DOD off the M-16 platform.

       There’s only so many times that those of us who actually know something about guns will listen to such arguments. That number of instances has now been exceeded.

9. HA! John Wick’s dog. So funny.

   • That video was way funnier than I expected

10. on the .40 cal thing. Add an inch to the 9mm barrel and it “Trumps” the .40. Use a 147gr bullet and the power approaches the black hole inducing .45. This is why I’ve got a G17L. (non-ported) for my “end of the world” arsenal. +2 mag plate and one in the pipe = 20 rounds of glock magic. I added a k-bar bayonet on it just for fun. Add a shouder thingy and 30 rd mag, little square magic piece and it’s a rock-n-roll “sub gun”

    • Negative on the 45ACP. Load up with Hornady Critical Duty 220g +P and you are putting out about 480 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle.

11. Damn. I thought the French rifles link was to some $200 MAS 49/56s.

12. Maybe I’m paranoid, but why in the hell would I want to install an app written by the FBI on my phone? For the vanishingly small chance that I might see one of a tiny handful of “most wanted” fugitives some day?

    If it isn’t a Trojan horse program that will spy on me for some illegal government surveillance program, then it’s just an incompetent waste of tax dollars spent developing a dumb program that nobody will ever use.

13. All they could find was 20 officers, from the entire country???
    Obviously, LEOs aren’t that much enamored of gun grabbers.

14. The Army is not going to change calibers
    They have untold millions of dollars invested and years of experience with 5.56
    Training, storage, supply, manuals, doctrine and institutional memory are all about the AR 15 in 5.56
    The only change might be following the Marines to the H and K 416
    Even that is highly unlikely
    The AR type rifle will be killing Americas’ enemies into the foreseeable future
    At least until the 40 watt plasma rifle is invented

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