Courtesy Presbyterian Church and Twitter

The Grace Presbytery, part of the Presbyterian Church USA, has congregations in north and northeast Texas. The Presbytery recently ordained its first minister of gun violence prevention.

“With all the gun violence in our country, it is easy to lose hope and ask: where is God? But I am hopeful,” [Rev. Deanna] Hollas said. “I see God raising up so many people and churches to study and speak out and work towards ending the violence that is plaguing our nation. Change is coming.”

Hollas holds a Master of Divinity from Perkins School of Theology and a Diploma in the Art of Spiritual Direction from San Francisco Theology Seminary. In addition to her work as a Dallas gun violence prevention activist, she is co-founder of Retreat House Spirituality Center in Richardson, Texas, a covenant community of spiritual directors. Her husband, Chris Hollas, and children Eleanor, Emily and John joined her at the service.

Presided over by Rev. David Schaefers, the Moderator of Grace Presbytery, and a special ordaining commission, the ordination service included traditional elements such as the serving of communion, the hymn “Holy, Holy, Holy” and the participation of Hollas’ Presbyterian parents, Dr. Richard and Sharon Morgan of Plainview, Texas.

At the same time, it also introduced a new hymn about gun violence prevention, “If We Just Talk of Thoughts and Prayers” by Presbyterian pastor and lyricist the Rev. Carolyn Winfrey Gillette. Representing the Presbyterian Peace Fellowship, Rev. Jan Orr-Harter presented Hollas with an orange stole, the color of the nationwide gun violence prevention movement. The stole included faces of children, a reminder of the lives at stake.

– Presbyterian Peace Fellowship in First-known minister of Gun Violence Prevention ordained July 7

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179 COMMENTS

      • Interesting since the Bible says the minister or elder or overseer (different names for the same office, since all have the same qualifications and responsibilities in the Bible) is to be the “husband of one wife”.

        • Last I was aware there were 32 different versions of the bible, including a Korean one with no gender references (I have no idea how they do that). So I am sure that someone else’s bible says something slightly different, and probably excludes women. I am not closely familiar with Presbyterianism. I do not know which bible version(s) they use or what it specifically says.

      • There is a reason Jesus choose men to be the Apostles. It doesn’t mean women do not bring their own strengths/charisms to faith, but basically all modern denominations ignore that fact.
        On a side note, what does a minister for gun violence prevention do?

        • I think you could copy/paste the job description of “community organizer” and call it a day.

          Forgive me if I ignore some Communist Lesbian (that obviously doesn’t even believe the Bible) but wants to lecture me about morality and justice.

        • They preach propaganda for sheep. Otherwise they’re useless.
          As someone who was baptized in the Presbyterian faith as a child it’s incredible how far PC ignorance has warped faith with a mix of twisted politics. The Gospel has been replaced with the litany of fools.

      • “Makes me glad that I’m an atheist.”

        Always find such statements curious. First because there is a real difference between an atheist, and an agnostic. Won’t bore with details, but people should know which is which.

        As for the atheist, a true atheist claiming there absolutely is no God, such a proclamation is specious on its face: to know for certain there is no God requires one to know all things, at all times, without exception. Such a condition could well be ascribed to an all-seeing, all-knowing God.

        To “prove” there is no God, one must be able to search everywhere, at all times, simultaneously, else there is a probability that some time, or some location would be overlooked (or conditions change unknowingly), rendering the “proof” invalid.

        Pondering conundrums is often fun and entertaining.

        “Not only is the universe stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we can imagine.
        Sir Arthur Eddington
        English astronomer (1882 – 1944)”

        • Technically I’m an agnostic atheist but I have little desire to delve into it with you as it becomes tiresome. Have a nice day.

          • “Technically I’m an agnostic atheist but I have little desire to delve into it with you as it becomes tiresome.”

            Not looking for anyone to “delve into it”. Only reporting observations, for consideration or not.

        • UPS,

          c’mon. That’s all you’ve got? Take your ball and go home instead of debating like a big boy?

        • Sam, are you an atheist or an agnostic regarding the existence of gods of the other so-called false religions ?

          • “Sam, are you an atheist or an agnostic regarding the existence of gods of the other so-called false religions ?”

            Just a sojourner who thinks only God could know there is no God; humans are too limited for the task. Looking at it coldly, when necessary, a declaration of, “There is no God” depends on faith, as does the declaration, “There is a God.” There seems to be universal agreement that there was a “beginning” to all this, but the creation of the universe cannot be re-produced, or subjected to scientific inquiry (as we know it).

            As to believing in God (an act of faith, admittedly), Pascal’s Wager seems the most prudent means of conducting affairs while alive. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager) NOTE: even the wager has its own lively debate.

        • Pg2, I was a Christian from age 15 until age 40. I’m 60 now. I’ve had many friendly debates with plenty of Christians where we examined each others point of view. I work with an Egyptian national who is a Coptic Christian, I also work with a Jehovah’s Witness. I’m not afraid to discuss anything but I’m tired of having the same conversations over and over. Coptics are Trinitarians, Jehovah Witnesses are not. I’ve never tried to stir up shit with any of them even when their versions of “TRUTH” are in complete conflict with each other.
          No disrespect but you aren’t going to confront me with anything I haven’t already encountered before.
          If you believe I’m going to burn in Hell for being an apostate ( Hebrews 6:4-6 ) what do you care ?

        • What if god was an atheist? would he ponder his divinity? we he question his very existence? tough questions, thats why they call it mystery.

          • “What if god was an atheist? would he ponder his divinity?”

            IIRC, the matter is broached in scriptures. If such as you propose were possible, “A house divided cannot stand.” If God were/is an atheist, He would annihilate Himself; matter v. anti-matter – God v. anti-God.

            But I suppose the most important question concerning God/no God is….”How many Angels can dance on the head of a pin?”

        • I believe St. Thomas Aquinas said something like: Believe, if there is a God, you will end up in heaven. If there isn’t, it won’t make any difference. You’ll just be in a dark hole.

          • “I believe St. Thomas Aquinas said something like: Believe, if there is a God, you will end up in heaven. If there isn’t, it won’t make any difference. You’ll just be in a dark hole.”

            Could be. Have difficulty penetrating the writings of Aquinas (my poor intellect), so not familiar with that quote.

    • The PCUSA has been introducing “other gospels” for decades, including blessing and ordaining unrepentant homosexual sinners.

      • Our local Presbyterian church dropped its P. It’s now Community Church of …… That’s the reason.

    • “Most shocking thing from that piece is she has a husband.”

      The question is, is her a male?

      • Could be a male who identifies as female. Female who identifies as male. Male who identifies as male. Depends on the day….or season. I’m going to identify as “Former Beauty Queen”, or just “Princess”.

    • With the president being a triple adulterer, coveting his neighbors wife, and bearing false witness it’s no surprise that many feel a deficit of morality in America.

      Thank providence that the founding fathers kept religion out of the constitution and affirmed that America is not a Christian nation.

      If America was governed by biblical law, Donald Trump would’ve been stoned to death three different times.

  4. The PC USA (not the PCA) stopped being a real church decades ago. Nothing to see here.

    • They are no different than a few others, Episcopal, Unitarians, etc. They’re not religions, they’re leftwing activists who call themselves a church. They don’t practice the bible or any teachings, they are social justice warriors. they’re a joke.

      • The Unitarians have really gone off the deep end the past few years. They have a large church and congregation near me and the social justice crap is strong with them. They had a massive BLM banner out front and rainbow flags fly all the time. Some of the most off the wall speakers give sermons on topics that make you scratch your head and they advertise on a giant electronic screen by the road.

        They came through my neighbor shilling for donations and I told them no thanks I vote R, hunt deer, and support Trump.

        That turned the butch and her 300lb wife away quick.

        • Wow. That makes me glad that I am surrounded by Brethren, Mennonites, and Amish with a sprinkling of other denominations. I was well aware that current Catholic Pope is a communist, and that some individual churches of other denominations were going SJW, but I had no idea how far it had spread. I do know God exists and am a Christian, but I have long eschewed organized religion.

    • The unfortunate thing is that even PCA has swung more left as a whole over the last 20 years. Whatever happened to teaching straight out of scripture and concern over the souls of people for eternity instead of these temporal issues?

    • Yep, and I keep hearing from leftists that Antonio Gramsci’s march through the institutions is a myth.

      Regardless, if they are appointing a minister with a specifically political mission (it’s right there in the title), perhaps it’s time to revisit their tax exempt status?

    • As a lifelong Christian, I have to admit that I’m sorely disappointed in how many self-professed “believers” in certain circles/denominations spout nonsense that has nothing to do with the Bible, Jesus, or the Gospel. In my own hometown, we have a few solid churches that teach from Scripture. However, we’ve had a couple of new churches spring up nearby over the past decade that preach only the “feel good” sentiments that fill the seats and bring money into their coffers, but don’t present the true Gospel. These have quickly become some of the largest in the area due to the appeal. I know…I attended a few of their services at the request of some friends who chose to go there, mostly because of the “great children programs” and “uplifting music”. So, basically they just want to be entertained while their kids are in a sort of daycare for a couple of hours. Made me grateful for my own home church, and I’ve never visited those “feel good” churches again.

      Someone needs to remind the Presbyterians mentioned in the article above that the Revolutionary War was begun on the day that British Regulars attempted to seize suspected guns from the colonists (gun control), and Jonas Clark, Pastor of the Church of Lexington, roused his congregants to readiness to defend themselves and their property. Churches, guns, and self defense have gone hand-in-hand since the beginning of this country.

      Modern sects that wish to disarm Americans are an embarrassment. The Sutherland Springs church massacre by an armed madman should be an example of why an unarmed people is a vulnerable people

  6. Is ttag jist going to ignore the antifa terrorist attacking ice a few days ago?

    Did i miss the post?

    • Yup… it’s so inconvenient when “pro-gun” leftists firebomb government facilities in acts of treason.

      • I expect that from most main stream media. Ttag is usually pretty good at picking up those stories. Supposedly this lunatic was featured in a cnn piece on antifa and he left a manifesto.
        Seems like big news

      • To be fair, it was also pretty damn anticlimactic, thankfully. That also makes it less newsworthy, though, at least outside politically-dedicated outlets. I should hope Limbaugh & the rest are going on about it, since the guy was as much a domestic terrorist as the guy that shot up New Zealand, only far, far more incompetent.

        The nutbar’s “manifesto” was the interesting part as far as gun news, since he specifically calls for the commies to arm up with “ghost guns” made off the books. But I wouldn’t blame any sane person for not reading the high points of the guy’s idiocy, so the editors here may simply not know about it.

        Dude was already on the radar for assaulting police officers at the same spot a year ago, too. “How could we have possibly known this could happen? Why are assault weapons available to civilians?”

        • Firebombing an immigration center? Is that like a “we have to kill the animals to save them” PETA thing?

        • He shot at a propane tank & tried to ignite it with a road-flare, was my understanding. It didn’t work. So no, he didn’t “firebomb” anything. He *attempted* to do a bunch of stuff, but again, in the newsworthy “if it bleeds it leads” sense, this was about as significant as cops shooting up a crazy guy on PCP in Philly. The guy’s background & motivation were what was news, but even then they are hardly uncommon anymore, apart from him acting on them.

          The real news going unreported is the widespread support for the idiot. Makes the handful the shitheads cheering the NZ shooter look like pikers. But the event itself was pretty inconsequential for anyone besides the dead guy.

        • Um… you need to check your news source, there’s pictures of at least one burned out car. He was throwing incendiaries.

        • It was only his car that he burned. Well, not entirely. It was his daughter’s car that she let him borrow that he burned. #fatheroftheyear

    • I hadn’t heard of it so I just looked it up. Just one crazy old dude with a death wish.

      • Yeah… the fact that half the left is falling over themselves turning him into a martyr and his blatant connections to both ANTIFA and the John Brown [Terrorist] Gun Club

      • One crazy old dude who was one of the dudes featured in a CNN piece on 5-5-2019, bragging about how wonderful it was that ANTIFA terrorists have guns.

        If you read stuff by Seattle ANTIFA, you’d know he’s an official martyr to the cause.

      • He also had a bunch of friends cheering him on, organizations of the same he met with recently & over a long period, and posted a manifesto being celebrated by the same today (telling his comrades to build 80% rifles & use them for murder). He’s a “lone wolf” in that he literally acted alone, but he was not a loner. He was arrested by police at that very facility last year for assaulting an officer, he was a regular figure at meetups & leftist events going back decades.

        He’s a domestic terrorist. Maybe his insane hatred finally pushed him over the edge to get himself killed, maybe it was a cancer diagnosis. Who cares what the final straw was, there was a whole pile of straws besides that point to him being part of a larger group, who likely has other members similarly close to breaking.

    • I saw that on reported on both CNN and Fox as well as online. The nut did no damage, turned out to be suicide by cop.

      • That’s not the important part. Left wing terrorists have always been incompetent. The important part is how the “mainstream” left refuses to condemn his attacks and how the commie left (but I repeat myself) is falling all over themselves turning him into a martyr. The important part, however, is that he was a member of one of those left wing “pro gun” groups that are “on our side”… The only difference between a pro-gun Demokkkommie and an “anti-gun” Demokommie is that one wants to kill you and take your stuff and the other wants the police to kill you and take your stuff.

    • Or the 1.4 million who pledged to invade Area 51. At best a hundred or so at most will turn up.

      Their motto: “they can’t stop all of us”.

      Even if a few thousand actually turned up and tried, it will end poorly.

        • “One A-10 Warthog, one strafing run and it’s all over….”

          It would have to be shock effect; 1300 rounds of 30mm is all she’s got. (Of course, an F-35 might be better; has all of 180 rounds)

  7. What are the odds that this will be a minority youth outreach program to keep at risk kids out of gangs? Or is this just ineffective political grandstanding?

    • Mostly a way to divert donations from parishioners and orgs to leftist propaganda efforts, and even more than that to provide paychecks to said leftists. Every time an “effort” is administrated…someone is getting a cut of the grease.

      • They can expect a few bucks from Bloomberg. Maybe.
        Does that gal even know about Cooper’s Four Rules ?

    • Governor Le Petomane,

      This lady and her church will not pursue the actual reasons for violent crime. Instead, she and her church will do what feels good. Sadly, we already have all the answers and far, far too many people reject the answers.

      And what are the answers? Sin is in the world which means people will sometimes endeavor to harm other people. And we know that faith alone in our loving Creator will change the hearts and minds of such people who have no reservations harming others. Of all the people and institutions in the world, an organization that claims to be a Christian church should know these facts. And yet this woman and her church will reject them — which should not be a surprise since the Presbyterian church rejects a great deal of the Bible.

      Pro-tip: people want to be their own little gods which is the root of sin and destruction in our world. Part and parcel of being one’s own little god is rejecting truth and defining his/her own “truth”, based on feelings of course.

      • Expanding on my comment, related to Governor Le Petomane’s question of whether this lady and her church will work on at-risk youth:

        We know that children are far, far more likely to embrace violent crime when they grow up in a destructive home environment outside of the Biblical model of family/parenthood and Godly values, such as respecting the sanctity of human life (which includes respecting other people’s property, e.g. not stealing). Unfortunately, perhaps as many as 70% of our children are growing up in such environments.

        If this lady and her church really want to reduce violent crime in our nation, she and her church should begin intensive efforts to restore the Biblical model of families, parenthood, and Godly values — both inside and OUTSIDE their congregations.

        Sadly, that will never happen because countless people delude themselves into thinking that they can do whatever they want without any negative consequences.

      • ‘…people want to be their own little gods which is the root of sin and destruction in our world.’

        Hey babe, take a bite of this apple and you will be like God.

      • “people want to be their own little gods which is the root of sin“

        Actually, the Bible says the love of money is the root of all evil.

        And about truth and feelings, you were right feelings do not lead to truth. Nor is faith a valid method of finding truth.

        All religions are make-believe, based on feelings and faith. Everybody I know is an atheist of one sort or another, few here believe in the Greek or Roman gods so they are by definition atheist.

  8. So they wrote some song lyrics they’ll make the congregation sing, this gal founded an HOA for pastors, was educated in San Francisco, and is a shill for Moms Demand Action. Is there supposed to be a news story in here, somewhere? They were shilling before for political causes (Presbies are already notorious for that. The one service I sat through out of curiosity on a random Sunday contained nonsense about both trannies & assault weapons, lol) and now…they have ‘officially’ named an ‘official’ full-time shill? Is that it? A ‘minister’ of propaganda?

    Jesus Christ, Lord Almighty, Mary & Joseph, there is a TON of meaningless fluff and faith-jargon filling this article.

  9. Sorry, organized religion is a scam perpetrated for the purpose of enrichment of the scammers. Your relationship with God has nothing to do with them. I doubt God cares about such foolishness as which way you pray or how much you give to these scammers. These people need to stop driving politics off the road into the gutter of Theology, politics is F’ed up enough.

    • Political causes pursued by organized religion, perhaps. But that’s only because politics is a scam. Organized religion is basically government; it serves its purposes, but it also doesn’t actually produce anything so it must be funded by the sweat of others’ contributions. As such, it tends toward maximizing those contributions while minimizing the benefit to the contributors & pocketing the difference…then attempting to paper-over the discrepancy by persuading the contributors with irrational moral arguments. No more or less ‘scammy’ than any other human group-endeavor…or more or less valuable, for that matter.

      • At its core, tithing is simply meant to support the place of worship. For example, say you and a dozen of your buddies decide to meet once a week at your house to talk about guns. Word gets out, and more people are invited. At some point, there will be too many people to fit into your home. Somebody proposes that the group meets in a building (whether rented or purpose-built). To do so, you go through the legal hoops and create a name for your organized group – let’s call it the Guild of Firearms. And let’s say you all agree to help one of your members who’s currently going through the legal aftermath of a self-defense shooting, by providing some financial assistance to pay for his defense attorney.

        So how will your big group of 100 people fund all of this?…the meetings, the support, the building, the electricity, the property tax, etc.? All members will be encouraged to voluntarily donate to the cause.

        Now here’s where it gets dicey. As long as the original leadership is there, the purpose and scope of your Guild stays on course. But at some point down the road, when the membership grows and you now need to expand your building AND plant new locations to serve people who live too far away from your location, new leaders will be rotated into the fold for oversight. If those leaders share the same vision and passion as the original, then all’s good and whatever money is brought in continues to be used for the core purpose of supporting the normal operations, plus your fund for assisting members as they find themselves in need of help.

        But if the Guild becomes so large that it’s no longer manageable (the NRA?), or some of the locations begin to veer from the original purpose, then you’ll start to see mismanagement of funds, or even leaders who will lose sight of the original purpose of “discussing guns” and will instead become bedazzled by the inflow of money and how they can get more of it.

        Christianity is all about Jesus and the Gospel. Many modern churches, however, are all about the Benjamins, sadly.

    • MB and barnbwt,

      Just this last Sunday I explained the core mission and value of Bible-based faith organizations to my youngest child. In a nutshell, faithful churches are a known place where:
      (1) people seeking answers to their faith questions can go to find answers.
      (2) attendees can teach and learn.
      (3) attendees can encourage each other and support each other.
      (4) attendees can glorify God with public declarations of faith.

      Can a lone person have a righteous, saving faith without an organized true-to-faith Christian church? Sure. Can 10,000 such lone people working all by themselves in isolation have anywhere near the positive impact to other believers and even non-believers as 10,000 people of faith working together in an organized manner? Absolutely not.

      Those are the incredibly compelling reasons for believers to be part of a congregation. The hard part is finding a congregation that is true to the Gospel.

  10. Feels like the “religious left” is a more a thing than the “religious right” now.

    • It’s been that way for quite some time, actually. Who do you think was behind the Prohibition movement, Suffrage movement, and even Abolition movement? Religious progressives (whose goals have become ‘progressively’ more ridiculous over the ages as they find victory). Also, make no mistake; socialists are every bit as religious as any “Jesus-head,” they just worship a crummy, man-made god full of flaws, that they readily acknowledge is hardly worthy of worship (the State).

      • Exactly.
        It’s called secular humanism. Man and The State replaces Jesus and the Kingdom of God.
        By replacing the accepted moral laws of the Church with PC garbage it allows the degenerates to take the helm.

        • The problem is, the moral rules of the church permit genocide, rape, slavery and all sorts of other obviously immoral behaviors. Even a casual reading of Leviticus, Deuteronomy or any other books of the Bible will show that it’s moral compass is spotty at best.

          Among the 10 Commandments I see no Commandments against rape or slavery, why is that?

      • So you think the involvement of religious progressives in the suffrage and abolition movement was wrong?

        Fascinating.

  11. And at the same time our church is scheduling Sunday afternoon range days for the teenagers and their parents.

    • In researching my college paper on teaching the 2A to students in grades K thru 12, I found that many churches historically had gun ranges in the church basement. Or had a small range on church property.
      Perhaps this is one reason why the Atheist Left hated organized religion. I doubt they would ever admit it. They destroyed rifle teams and 2A education in the public school system. But they can’t touch religion and private school education. Yet.

      • I’ve seen that abomination too. Churches teaching Santa Clause Jesus and the message of health, wealth, and success.
        MFs need to read the beatitudes. If things are going great and it’s smooth sailing, you ain’t doing the Lord’s work.
        Finding a church that sings the Old Rugged Cross and that focuses on service to the community is a real challenge lately.

        • Mr. Taylor,

          Churches teaching Santa Clause Jesus and the message of health, wealth, and success.

          The term for that is “prosperity gospel”. Unfortunately, there are a lot “churches” that teach a “prosperity gospel” rather than the real Gospel message. And the explanation is simple: a lot of people would much rather hear a “prosperity gospel” than the real Gospel.

          None of that should be a surprise. Remember the following Bible verses:

          2 Timothy 4:3
          For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions …

          2 Timothy 3:1-5
          … in the last days … people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power.

        • “Chruches teaching …. the message of health, wealth, and success.”

          My brother does missionary work in S. Africa a coupla times a year. He says if your message won’t work in Africa, the message is bogus.

      • The “Athiest Left” doesn’t hate organized religion because of religion vs. atheism or guns. It’s the Left part that matters, not the atheist part.

        They hate organized religion because the Left demands absolute obedience to their political philosophy which is essentially a religion in and of itself. Those who lean on God are not fully faithful to the State. It’s like idolatry to the Left.

        Furthering the goal of obedience and reliance on the state has a few prerequisites. One of those is destruction of anything that enhances the individual, which the Judeo-Christian philosophy does.

        But again, it’s not about religion per se. You’ll note that they’ve also attacked Greek and Latin classics as well. The reason is the same. You can get many of the same lessons about society and how to act within it from ancient Greek and Latin texts so those have to go too.

        Both the Judeo-Christian philosophy and Hellenistic Greek ideas ultimately come from ancient Egypt where, so far as we know, many of these ideas originated. It’s not as widely reported because not as many people are into serious study of Egyptian religion/philosophy/society/development but Egyptology has changed a lot in the last 20 years, being more PC or just weathering the same sort of attacks.

        It’s not about religion really, it’s about erasing history and the thought process behind Western Civ.

        I mean, how many of these people want Muslims to pay reparations to blacks for the slave trade the Muslims started? How many want Muslims to pay for the slavery of Christian’s, specifically white Christians in Barbary in the 1500’s? How many of them want blacks in Africa to pay reparations to African Americans since, ya know, the blacks in Africa kind of started the entire slave trade by making slaves basically the currency of West Africa for centuries, even before Europeans or Muslims showed up? None because that’s inconvenient for the bullshit story they’re trying to craft and have the public accept.

        It’s all about the absolute primacy of the state in the minds of all her subjects. “Thou shalt have no other Gods before me” is something the Left believes about the state the way the Jews believe about Yahway.

        • It’s always about power and control. Evil men care about nothing else. The “One World Religion”, the only one to be allowed, is Statism. The worship of government as a God. The Statists will take nothing less, and those who believe in liberty cannot accept it. The war coming, sooner or later. Just as with the situation in the Pacific prior to WW2, conflict is inevitable.
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0Mu4jJ0S0s

        • Strych9,

          [The Left] hate organized religion because the Left demands absolute obedience to their political philosophy which is essentially a religion in and of itself. Those who lean on God are not fully faithful to the State. It’s like idolatry to the Left.

          BOOM!!! That there was a truth bomb of epic proportions!

        • Communism is the cult of the 20th century. Any criticism is taken very personally by the adherents and that is why they overreact, often with brutality, to any criticism or deviance which is considered an abomination.

        • Socialism (and Communism) are nothing more than Scientology for poor people.

          They’re all batshit crazy and want power bought with your money.

  12. It seems the “christians” have not learned the lesson of bible based violent self-defense action.
    I’m sure this 1st amendment (religion), example, is supported but the Left. But other 1st amendment (religion ), examples, are not supported by the Left. See examples below.

    https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/question-day-jesus-church-gun-raffle/

    https://www.npr.org/2014/03/10/287311237/kentucky-southern-baptists-draw-crowds-with-gun-giveaways

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/10/08/church-criticized-for-promoting-ar-15-raffle-days-after-las-vegas-massacre/?utm_term=.2d494f9e868a

    As far as I can tell the Left only supports 1st amendment (pornography). Or 1st amendment (flag burning). They don’t support 1st amendment (anti-abortion protest).

    • The left only supports freedoms that do not threaten hegemony of the state. Their entire philosophy & set of policy goals are consistent within that framework. Socially, the policies may cause strife & conflict, but so long as they do not impinge on the government’s power, they can all get along. The “conservative” philosophy is what is badly flawed & factionalized, basically a bunch of competing unrelated interests that mostly want to take back only certain portions of state authority while leaving others in place to keep the other interest groups at bay. If they could actually ‘hang together’ in the Ben Franklin sense & work to reinforce each other’s goals as a means of achieving their own, they would pose a significant impediment to leftist efforts, but at this point each faction on the right sees each other as the easier meal.

      • barnbwt
        That is why gun civil rights are going away on the entire west coast of the United States. One side, the Left, is simply larger than the other side, the Right. And gun civil rights are just not very important to Left wing gun owners. They have more important priorities.

    • Chris T in KY: “As far as I can tell the Left only supports 1st amendment (pornography). Or 1st amendment (flag burning). They don’t support 1st amendment (anti-abortion protest).”

      Spot-on. I love the irony.

      • Or in the case of the Womens Soccer Team, the one Christian teammate who was barred from playing because she declined to wear a special jersey the team chose to support Gay Pride. They didn’t like her exercising her right to expression, but they touted their own right to kneel for the National Anthem.

        Good for me, but not for thee.

      • Lifesavor
        I forget to add, the Left does support 1st amendment (protests at military recruitment centers) as well.

        I have never taken the Libertarians, Liberals, or the Left seriously when they say they support the 1st amendment. And the ACLU has NEVER supported the 1st amendment.

        They support insults (stand up comics). They don’t support Free Speech. They don’t support the right of a person to speak substantive speech, that they disagree with.

        • Understood. The best test for support of 1A is support for your opponents right to speak freely. “As much as I dislike your words, I will fight for and defend your right to say them”. Pretty tough when your opponents are calling you a deplorable, racist, homophobic, rapist, mass-murdering, theo-pathetic, Russian collaborator. However, I have to draw the line when my opponents say their free-speech entitles them to punch me or shut down my free speech. But I think all of us on this blog agree on that point.

        • You do know the ACLU has gone to court to protect the right of the KKK to publicly March?

          I’d say that’s a pretty good unbiased defense of the first amendment, wouldn’t you?

        • Miner49er
          You do know that the ACLU helped write the racist gun control law, the Mulford Act, in California???
          Alan Sieroty as a member of the ACLU board of Directors, was one of six lawmakers who wrote the Mulford Act.

  13. So, this is all about ending “gun violence”, not about ending violence in general. I guess other forms of violence such as by automobile, blunt objects, fists, and machetes (MS 13 will be glad to know that) are either acceptable or not such a high priority. Glad to see this Presbyterian Church has clearly defined its priorities.

  14. “Here I stand with my bayonet, there you stand with your law. We’ll see which prevails.”

  15. I’ve no use for anyone’s religion. Bunch of whackadoodle cults begging approval from an anthropomorphic personification of fantastical imaginary super-friends.

    And there’s no such thing as “Gun Violence”, that does not exist. No inanimate object commits any act. Only people and animals do violence.

    So work on the HUMAN VIOLENCE problem.

    This will require more than singing a song about the actions of a lump of metal and plastic, possibly also wood.

  16. Virtue signaling belongs in the church/synagogue/mosque, not the media, corporate boardroom, or politics. So there is that. I dont have a problem with theologians preaching peace and love. It’s kinda what they do.

  17. While I question many of these “church of politics” groups, I have found some of the bravest, God fearing people I have ever met who wee Quakers and other anti-war groups. Many were COs and did their jobs awesomely in VeitNam. Some even signed up and worked as medics/nurses(both men and women.
    If that is the way they truly believe, they have a right to do so and to spread their brand all over in this country. If we expect anyone with differing opinions to support ours, we have to allow them their rights.

  18. “faith alone in our loving Creator will change the hearts and minds of such people who have no reservations harming others”
    How’s that been working out for you so far?

    • Jr,

      Depends on whether your question applies inward or outward to me.

      As far as outward:
      Without my faith in our loving Creator, I would have harmed countless people throughout my life. Instead, I have not caused any significant harm to anyone.

      As far as inward:
      Countless people throughout my life have faith in our loving Creator and did no harm to me. Unfortunately, several people throughout my life did not have faith in our loving Creator and set out to cause significant harm to me. I have done my best to protect myself from such people.

      • “Without my faith in our loving Creator, I would have harmed countless people throughout my life. ”

        So only your fear of divine retribution from your sky daddy has kept you from causing harm to others?

        You have apparently no internal moral compass to guide you in what is right and wrong for you and your fellow beings?

        Fascinating. And alarming, are there many like you? Just a crisis of faith away from mass murder? Yikes!

  19. All I can really say is why the focus on firearms? In my short time in law enforcement and my half century on Earth I learned violence is violence and hurt and dead is the same.

    • Peasants are efficiently disgusting already, no need for them to be revolting enough that they bother their betters. Looking like we are going to be seeing the church and state push feudal ideals again.

  20. Glad I’m an atheist. That being said, why am I not surprised that the first, “Minister,” of gun violence prevention (scoff) is a woman?

  22. Why is it that only certain churches only get their not for profit status questioned? This certainly seems like political activism to me.

    • Is it really a church? Heresy jokes aside this congregation seems to be struggling to meet a diet Coke level of Christianity.

  24. It is political activism blended in with virtue signaling and (IMHO) churches that practise it should pay taxes. Many churches tread on the very edge of political activism every time their Sky Pilot mounts his pulpit to exhort the congregation to contact their legislators and urge them to vote in a certain way because an act they are considering is repugnant and will corrupt the morals of the country. In my view, churches should only be concerned with the salvation of their congregants, and leave politics entirely out of the equation.

    Stunts like this Texas presbytery pulled in ordaining a “minister of gun violence prevention” are why mainstream religions have been in decline for decades. They don’t want fire and brimstone, they want feel-good pablum. They are leftist cults. They want your soul and your money for the liberal progressive left. On the other side of the coin, the “righteous” churches want your soul and your money so the minister can build a mega-church empire and get rich. That’s why I gave up on organized religion a long time ago.

  25. I only clicked on the article to see the picture because I couldn’t tell if it was male or female.

  27. You will never see this “minister” in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas at night doing her schtick. She’d be lucky to last 5 minutes.

  28. When are ‘they’ going to start focusing on the real cause of the problems on this planet: violence prevention.

  29. Sounds vaguely RPG-like. Maybe she gets +1D6 on Protection casting against Gun Violence. You always have to have a cleric in the party.

    • You’re right! On both points. 1200 XP to you.

      The grandiosity of the titles in this church is ridiculous.

  30. Ehhh…same old same old. Spiriual bedfellows with rev pervert(Pfleger) at St. Sabina in Chiraq. While we don’t have Sunday afternoon shoots at Hammond,IN 1st Baptist it’s the most guned up church I’ve ever been in. AND they preach the unvarnished Gospel of JESUS CHRIST. Folks get saved every week. Sad the entire Presbyterian church once preached the TRUTH(btw if this gal sez “husband ” it’s a dude. No compunction against the “wife” title).😫

  31. “I see God raising up so many people and churches to study and speak out and work towards ending the violence that is plaguing our nation. Change is coming.”

    If the Jethros can’t see the good in this then it is time for sweeping changes to how the Democrat Socialists deal with all gun owners.

    Universal bans on specific weapons and their accessories are not enough. A Complete and total ban on firearms is necessary. All the key components are in place to do this. We have the money, corporate support and the technology, not to mention the military might to get this done. The clock is ticking and the elections are near. Choose wisely.

      • “Throw in a vaccine ban and we’re in business.”

        In this context, you make sense.

      • Pg2, this seems inconsistent. You (laudably) do NOT want the government mandating vaccines and thereby infringing on our right to determine health care choices for ourselves and our families, but you DO want the government to remove our guns and thereby infringe upon our 2A rights. Did I misunderstand?

        • So you want to government to ban vaccines? Isn’t that big government telling me what I canning can’t do with my body?

          Is it more or less government when you tell me who I can marry or what weed I can grow in my yard?

      • We are Donald Trump Vlad Tepes, we are orange and we are winning. We do not want your old guns, we want new guns, better guns, bigger guns. You won’t believe how good our guns are going to be. You will be assimilated, you must comply, resistance is futile. #MakeGunsGreatAgain

        • We are troll Vlad Tepes and you are using my name and you are racist. We live under a bridge and will take all the guns. Mommy says trolls do not wear big girl panties. I hate our mommy. #TrollsUseVladTepes #WeHateMyMommy

    • “A Complete and total ban on firearms is necessary. All the key components are in place to do this. We have the money, corporate support and the technology, not to mention the military might to get this done.”

      A few *small* problems with that plan, here’s just *one* of them –

      80 percent of the military votes Republican. Then there’s this problem with why they are there in the first place. They took an oath, a promise, to protect America from *all* enemies, foreign and (most importantly, so pay attention to this one, son -) domestic.

      What would a domestic enemy be? That would be anyone who orders the military to steal or in any way damage or destroy the citizen’s personal property. Their guns. Or to harm or kill their fellow citizens.

      It’s a simple deal, you leave us and our guns alone, or really, really, *bad* things happen to you, and those you love…

      Micheal Jackson sang a song about it, “A, B, C, easy as 1, 2, 3…”

      Get it? Got it? Good!

      “The clock is ticking and the elections are near. Choose wisely.”

      You make sure you do the same now, y’hear? 😉

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-aSjHnbw18

      • Too many foot soldiers will follow orders from up on high and do what they’re told to avoid being jailed or shot. Can’t count on the military or police to help anyone.

        Besides, all the soldiers are vaccinated. Mandatory mind control for anyone who joins up.

        • On the eve of the 2020 elections, I will sneak into my mommy’s room and get my big girl panties. When we are wearing my Big Girl Panties of Power, all of the soldiers and all of the police and all of the voters will have to do what I say! Then all of the Democratic Socialists will put on their panties of power and we will take all of the guns.

        • Quote——————————On the eve of the 2020 elections, I will sneak into my mommy’s room and get my big girl panties. When we are wearing my Big Girl Panties of Power, all of the soldiers and all of the police and all of the voters will have to do what I say! Then all of the Democratic Socialists will put on their panties of power and we will take all of the guns.———————–quote

          This guy is a nut case using my name.

        • We are nut case Vlad Tepes using my name. We really feel we are going to take all the guns. We really, really, really want to wear our big girl panties, RIGHT NOW! I hate, hate, hate my mommy. #VladTepes=NutCase #MommyHate

    • “A Complete and total ban on firearms is necessary.”

      Wrong, oh so wrong….we need a total ban on violent behavior. Find ’em, fix ’em, isolate ’em, out-flank ’em, execute ’em all.

      And their enablers?

      Think of the financial benefit to society.

        • “And how do you plan for this to be accomplished, o bright one?”

          100 million gun owners, 400 million guns, you don’t think it is possible?

          Anyway, everyone is entitled to their fantastical opinions. Hyperbole is not for sissies.

      • We are management Vlad Tepes and you are not. You are racist. We are the center of the universe and everybody has to do what we say or we will tell my mommy. And, and, and…..oh ya, we will take all the guns. #CryBabyVladTepes #IHateOurMommy

  32. I hope they understand the drug business or they will just be treading water and going “Glub” occasionally.

  33. It seems to me that this is coming from someone who doesn’t understand their own religion. And it seems pretty hubristic too.

    God has a plan supposedly. That plan includes bad things happening. “Gun violence”, childhood cancer, war, pestilence etc. But, have faith, God has a plan. An immaculate and Divine plan.

    Who are you, lady, to question God’s plan? Oh, it’s a test to see if you’ll do the right thing and fight against the gun violence? That seems rather presumptuous of you since the implicit assumption there is that you understand his Divine plan, which by definition puts you on par with God Himself. Ignore the circular logic with the “plan” idea here for moment. Has it occurred to you that maybe the test is to see if you exhibit this kind of pride? That it’s YOU who is being tested, and failing that test?

    But it’s hardly surprising that you have such a high opinion of yourself. After all, you’re the one with the audacity to stand up before a group of people every week and offer them your faulty human interpretation of God and his plan rather than letting each person have a personal relationship with God and allowing them to come to an understanding that works best for them. Because, ya know, you’re so smart that only YOU can interpret words in a book, which kind of defeats the purpose of the book existing in the first place.

  34. “Minister of Gun Violence Prevention”? Wow! Jesus commanded his disciples to sell their garments and buy a sword (personal weapon of his day) see Luke 22.36. Certainly Jesus was not for disarmament – what does a minister of gun violence prevention do? Arm and train the congregation?

    • “In righteousness HE doth judge and MAKE WAR”…JESUS is not coming back(soon!)as a babe.

      • Jesus the Christ is coming back to this earth to set up HIS Kingdom, as the LION of the Tribe of Judah. HE will subdue many by HIS judgement.

  36. This Church and followers will all see eternal hell fire! God wants people armed to protect the good from bad which is mostly Democrat jihads ATM.

    Psalm 144 Of David. 1 Praise be Lord my Rock, who trains hands for war, fingers battle. 2 He loving fortress, stronghold deliverer, shield, in whom I take refuge, subdues peoples[a] under me. 3 Lord, what are human beings that you care them, mere mortals think of them? 4 They like a breath; their days fleeting shadow. 5 Part your heavens, come down; touch mountains, so they smoke. 6 Send forth lightning scatter enemy; shoot arrows rout them. 7 Reach down hand on high; deliver me rescue mighty waters, foreigners 8 whose mouths full lies, right deceitful. 9 sing new song you, God; ten-stringed lyre make music 10 One gives victory kings, delivers his servant From deadly sword 11 me; 12 Then our sons youth well-nurtured plants, daughters pillars carved adorn palace. 13 Our barns filled with every kind provision. sheep increase by thousands, tens thousands fields; 14 oxen draw heavy loads.[b] There no breaching walls, going into captivity, cry distress streets. 15 Blessed this true; blessed Lord.

    • also, Psalm 18:32: It is God who arms us with strength and makes our path secure.

  38. Not sure why Christians need guns. They’re supposed to turn the other cheek, aren’t they?

    • Even Jesus told the disciples to sell their cloaks and buy swords for their protection. We’re not to instigate violence, but we’re not to allow evil to steamroll over the innocent, either.

      “…the one without a sword should sell his cloak and buy one.” – Luke 22:36

      • Dear Skyman:
        Literally every lesson and phrase in the entire Bible can be interpreted in many different ways. Just as there are a thousand different translations. Only self-righteous SOBs insist their interpretation is the only possible correct one because that’s what they were taught in Bible /Sunday school. That’s why we were given ONLY 10 commandments in the old Testament and ONLY two in the New Testament. To keep it simple. And even those can be interpreted a 1000 different ways. I shall keep my guns. You may keep your insults.

        • Help me to understand why there is no commandment against rape or slavery? In fact, the Bible gives very specific rules for slavery.

          And the infanticide commanded by God in the Bible is immoral and abhorrent to any moral creature.

          Is that the living God you’re speaking of? Or a dark and vengeful Bronze Age fantasy?

        • Miner49er: Right mostly, except rape is covered under adultery. Equally concerning is tattoos and piercings: Leviticus 19:28 is specific about that being a sin. But then, the Old T. also says things about what to wear, including hair and beard. It ain’t easy being strict followers of these customs. Yes, much argument can be made about slavery outside of prison for cause. That’s what made the Civil War so hard to reconcile with the southern Baptists. It had to come down to national law, not biblical tolerance. Regarding infanticide, God commanded genocide, not restrictive of infants only. The argument has been made before that it’s better to kill the baby who’s soul will surely go to heaven, than allow the child to grow up in violence & drugs, and go to hell. It’s a tough recommendation for infanticide we know today as abortion. It’s God’s decision, I’ll play it safe and avoid all of it!

  39. The World Without Us, it’s a book about humans impact on this planet. Also somewhere in the Bible Jesus says ” My Kingdom is not of this Earth” I think that’s just before a bunch of pigs run the devil off a cliff. This is a question I’ve been wanting to ask as I’ve pondered this a bit myself. If we could have true peace on Earth would we beat our swords into plow shears? I certainly do like my gunms and not all of them are for killing, most are just for shooting and having fun doing that. Trade in that pleasure for true peace? That’s a tuff one..

    • Better question. Will there be possumz in heaven? Will they still be run over as they cross the road?

      Hey, we won’t need vaccines in heaven!!!

  40. Once again, we have a theologian who has been educated far beyond her intelligence. Actually reading the Bible reveals that God blesses us for using legal force to defend the innocent. Christians and Jews should learn this. To help them out, I wrote “A Time To Kill: The Bible and Self-Defense” (subtitle changed this year from “The Myth of Christian Pacifism”). It’s a Christian/GunNut/Lawyer’s view of the Bible.
    You can get it at Amazon books by searching, “Greg Hopkins, A Time To Kill”, to get the straight scoop.

  41. When people ask you, “What would Jesus do? “ remind them flipping over tables and chasing people with a whip is always a possibility.

    • Awesome answer! That means when someone busts into my church with a gun and less than God-praising intentions, I can shoot them in the name of Jesus. I like that! Works for me.
      We now have a sheriff in uniform standing guard all Sunday morning. According to the Bishop the parishioners are not allowed to carry guns in the church (but we do anyways. It only makes sense.) If some wacko with less-than-God-praising-intent shoots the sheriff first who stands out like a sore thumb, one of us needs to finish the event. Now if the Presbyterian Susie-Q Minister packs heat as part of her violence prevention strategy, THAT would make sense. Otherwise, more snowflake BS. All the education she has will not prevent a wack-job from slaughtering. Only if that education included handling a 1911. And you ain’t gotta be ordained to know that.

    • Context!

      Flipping tables and using a whip are reserved for dealing with hypocrisy, entitlement, and self enrichment among church leadership inside the church, not for self defense.

      Defense of self and others is justified elsewhere in the bible and should be utilized under strict influence of the Holy Spirit.

  42. During the English Civil Wars, ie dress-rehersal for the American Revolution, the Scots turned against the Parliamentarians due to being afraid of individual liberty. The Presbyterian Scots believed in central religious authority, literally presbyters, whereas England had Independent Calvinists, Quakers and a bunch of other sects officially or effectively allowing individuals to follow their own conscience. Gasp.

  45. I’m an ordained minister, and i legally carry concealed at every church activity, along with other ministers and former LE. Loving people doesn’t mean you leave them defenseless. Video cameras, lock doors, background checks of workers all help, but when it comes to active shooters at a church (or about anywhere else), the best answer to a bad guy with a gun, is still a good guy with a gun. God honors MEEKNESS, strength under control. He doesn’t want us to be weak in this area. Loving others does not mean we ignore physical dangers and legal consequences of criminal acts.

  47. Long ago the Founder of Christianity decided that women would not have HIS anointing to speak with authority for HIM from HIS pulpit of any Christian church. Degree in theology or not, women are not to speak from a pulpit as if they have His authority. Jesus Christ gives no such authority for women to speak from Christian pulpits despite what that genius James Earl Carter has to say. Carter is in grave danger of being Judged by God Almighty for his opposition to the State of Israel. Be warned James Carter you are on the edge of Eternity of your damnation. Carter, you will be judged severely due to having had much civil authority on your head.

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