Yesterday we showed you an unusual situation. A man who had holstered his concealed carry pistol later bent over, causing the gun to discharge. The question was…how did that happen? Many of you had your theories (bad holster, shirt got in the way, it’s a GLOCK!).
This morning, we have a discharge of a different kind. Last night an FBI agent was burning it down on the dance floor of a Denver nightclub. The admirably limber Fed got so into the music that he successfully (well, mostly) executed a backflip. Impressive. Unfortunately . . .
The agent’s handgun was poorly secured. We don’t know exactly how he was carrying his duty gun, but it’s difficult to imagine it falling out of a decent Kydex holster that way.
Be that as it may, once the pistol hit the dance floor, the agent can be seen to grab it…and when he did, he touched off a round. A negligent discharge by any measure.
According to a 9news.com report, someone in the crowd was hit in the leg.
Had the agent been drinking? Well . . .
The shooting happened at Mile High Spirits at 2201 Lawrence St. at around 1 a.m. Saturday.
You can make your own inference from that bit of information. What happens now?
Denver Police’s homicide unit is handling the investigation, and charges will be determined by the Denver District Attorney’s Office.
Homicide unit? We’ve searched and have seen no reports that the person who was shot had died. In the mean time, remember that only trained law enforcement officers have the necessary skills to be trusted to carry a firearm in public. That is all.
Fifty bucks says he walks with nary a slap on the wrist. Needless to say, he’ll keep his job as well. Under the same circumstances, a CCW holder would (rightly) be in jail right now.
Exactly !
Of course. If a ccw carries in a bar it’s a felony. So stop yer whining.
There is no prohibition in Colorado against carrying in a bar. Or even having a beer or two. The same legal intoxication limits as driving apply though.
trout is correct. The legal limit to carry in Colorado is a BAC of 0.08.
Technicaly the law applies to all possession of a firearm, including in your home as well. But I’ve never heard of someone being charged in their home if someone broke in while an armed homeowner or legal guest was legally drunk.
Yep, Iowa is like Colorado. As long as your BAC is under 0.08% you’re 100% legal. And even if you go over 0.08% it’s a serious misdemeanor, not a felony.
Hmmmm. Colorado has a two-tier system for impairment with a .05 BAC reading = “DWAI.” Does this also apply to carrying, or it it only the higher .08 threshold?
Not sure what kind of slave state you live in, but here in the civilized free land of New York we have no prohibition against carrying concealed in a bar.
Just don’t have more than 10 rounds in the magazine.
It was probably part of a super secret Trump investigation.
The Russians spiked his water with some kind of drug that made him act like a clown. A FBI agent would never go out of his way to do back flips for the public.
“A FBI agent would never go out of his way to do back flips for the public.”
Sure he would – If he was trying to impress a date…
That one’s actually credible. Russian vodka is strong stuff.
The FBI is still trying to cover up from Waco.
I just looked up Colorado Law. There is actually a carve out for law enforcement exempting them from criminal liability for a negligent discharge, while for the little people it is a felony.
Colorado Illegal Discharge of a Firearm Statute – C.R.S. 18-12-107.5
“
(1) Any person who knowingly or recklessly discharges a firearm into any dwelling or any other building or occupied structure, or into any motor vehicle occupied by any person, commits the offense of illegal discharge of a firearm.
(2) It shall not be an offense under this section if the person who discharges a firearm in violation of subsection (1) of this section is a peace officer as described in section 16-2.5-101, and in the performance of such officer’s duties.
(3) Illegal discharge of a firearm is a class 5 felony.”
Fake news – it clearly says “and in the performance of such officer’s duties” in the law. It doesn’t mean while dancing intoxicated at a dance club while off duty.
And a good defense attorney will probably be able to argue that FBI agents are “always on duty”, since the law fails to define what constitutes “being on duty”.
The exemption is for “in the performance of his duty.” I doubt it was his duty to do a back flip on the dance floor of a disco. At least, I was never required to.
Since the law fails to define what exactly “in the performance of his duty” means, a good defense attorney would have a field day with that ambiguity.
He probably won’t keep that job. He’s probably already suspended indefinitely pending the outcome of the local charges and an OPR investigation. He’s a liability now. If he ever has to shoot someone on duty, justified or not, this WILL be brought up at trial. You can’t have that, especially when your public image has been drug through the mud. He’s also damaged relations and credibility with the local PD.
In jail, lost his job, security clearances, and all that goes with that…house, cars, family, health insurance, kid’s college funds. It’s commonly said that there are two legal systems in this country, one for the rich, and one for the poor. It’s pretty obvious there is one for the cops too.
Presumably a Glock–assuming it was his issue pistol.
Right. Because it fired when it was grabbed up from the floor by an inebriated FBI Guy, it HAD to be a Glock–because there are NO other pistols ever made that will fire when the trigger is pulled. NONE.
So, it HAD to be a Glock. Right?
There I go again. . . complacent in the erroneous belief that pulling the trigger of a pistol will make it fire. WHEN will I ever LEARN?!
Glocks should have a label on the side that says, “Warning! Pulling the trigger of this gun, unlike with any other, will make it fire!”
Give it a rest.
*facepalm*
You mean to tell me one of those paragons of virtue, one of those super firearms handling experts, one of those Gods among gun owners an FBI agent had an ND on the dancefloor in a club? Color me shocked! If you hadn’t included video I’d have never believed such a shining example to us unwashed dirty gun owners would ever mix alcohol, dancing, firearms, and trying to get lucky. Surely’ these men have better morals than that.
/SARC\
Hell yeah. They have credentials and training. We churls have none of those. Just ask them. They’ll tell you.
Besides acting like a fool in a bar. No retention holster, carrying the gun in the back where you can’t get to it in a hurry but anyone can come from behind and snatch it away and anyone can see it if your shirt rides up. And finally my favorite, picking up your Glock by sticking your finger in the trigger guard.
Apparently FBI weapons training consists of watching Hollywood movies.
And watching Seinfeld reruns for Elaine’s dance tips.
He won’t keep his job. The FBI is very tough on this type of incident. This is especially true since he shot someone. Bet he’s already turned in his gun(s) and badge.
Tough on their agents’ misconduct are they?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fbi-agent-accused-of-using-foreign-prostitutes/
“No charges have been filed against the agent.”
That opinion of yours doesn’t seem to hold up to scrutiny does it?
The Bureau of Instigation is very punitive on firearms mishaps?
Lon Horiuchi might disagree with you on that.
“Lon Horiuchi might disagree with you on that.”
*Ziiiiiiiiiing!*
*snicker*
That was sanctioned. Wrong, but sanctioned.
Paul has a point. Vickie was considered by some to be the most radical member of that family, it’s not unthinkable that she was ‘accidentally’ taken out under orders to get Randy out from under her influence, and maybe even into the Confidential Informant role they’d been trying to blackmail him into for the past year.
No, your overlords will not be punished. ..
If the FBI fires him, the dancing agent can get a job with the DEA and partner up with Lee Paige. How would you like to be in the same room with those two?
Any way you slice it, someone’s going to get shot in the leg.
Nightclub…alcohol?
Federal Bureau of Intoxication.
The FBI is a global joke.
Agree 100%!
Also a Giant “Heads Up” on the FBI…I believe the FBI is about to Try and STAGE another False Flag Mass “Shooting” in the next several days!
Why do I believe that?
The NWO Loves their numerology and anniversary dates. Tuesday is the Anniversary of Robert Kennedy’s Assassination and there was a CONSPICUOUS Gun Control march over the Brooklyn bridge last Saturday by Julianne Moore and Susan Sarandon and David Hogg Yesterday announced “A Big Surprise Announcement” for today…In other words…These Snakes are about to Try and pull another STAGED Mass “Shooting” and these Marches and anniversary’s and Hogg’s announcement are a “Run-Up”!
Sorry for the Off-Topic Thread “Hijack”!
Just when we thought the reputation of the FBI couldn’t get any worse, we get this agent who was one of the rank and file agents.
This is why we can’t have nice things.
Like Freedom.
Seems Glocks are like Mustangs.
Un-recalled SIG 320’s are like Mustangs.
On another web site, some idiot was blaming the Glock for lack of a lever safety.
Maybe the cops should Israeli carry?
Maybe the cops should not be allowed to have loaded guns?
Doesn’t the U.S. military require a manual safety on their pistols to stop these kind of things from happening?
No actually they don’t. The Rangers, SF, SEALs, MARSOC and Delta all use Glocks.
This young man lost sight of himself and his responsibility of a firearm carrier. He made a series of bad choices and he will suffer, as he should, and maturity hopefully will set in.
Just for general issue sidearms.
My modest proposal:
If they are feds (except maybe Marshals) one loose round in the shirt pocket and they have to secure permission before putting it in a firearm.
Don’t know a lot of feds do ya?
No…he’s just been been pulled over by a somewhat overzealous deputy in Mayberry NC.
The two I’ve met (FBI), I’d no sooner trust with a loaded firearm than the bunch that got themselves shot up in Florida in 1986.
Gotta love how he picks the gun up and re-holsters it casually after it discharges, then puts his hands up like ‘it’s cool, no worries folks’.
It’s all depends on his intent. It was said Hillary didn’t intend to commit the crimes she did therefore the FBI considers her completely innocent of wrong doing. He’s still eligible to become president one day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTACH1eVIaA
There are indeed L.E.O.s who have no business with a firearm. There are L.E.O.s that have no business being an L.E.O. at all. There are also surgeons that have no business with a scalpel. The incompetent find there way into every profession. What disturbs me most, other than the incident itself, is that after the NG he picks up his weapon, holsters it, raises his hands, as if to say, “My bad.” and walks away. He doesn’t seem to show any concern for the victim.
This video needs to be saved and used as a response to the argument, “Only the government should be allowed to have guns.”
No, for such people, the idea that government agents are light years more competent and responsible with firearms than civilians is a matter of faith, and not subject to disproof by counterexample. What they take away from such incidents is that civilians must be even worse.
And I bet the gun was a striker fired gun with no manual safety otherwise when he picked it up it would not have fired off accidentally.
More glaring proof that if the Consumer Protection Agency had jurisdiction over firearms design the gun would never have been allowed on the market without a manual safety.
As long ago as 1905 FN found out that their .25 acp pocket pistol was not a good idea without a manual safety and they redesigned it with one called the Model of 1906 and ditto for the U.S. 1911 pistol which was originally also designed without a manual safety by none other than John Browning and the U.S. Military told him “Are you fking nuts, these Moron recruits will be shooting themselves with it the minute they pick it up loaded, get a fking manual safety on this weapon if you want to sell it to us. Fast forward 107 years later and the U.S. Military told Sig the same thing before they adopted their new budget priced Plasticky pistol.
Question? Why does the gun industry have to relearn history all over again and not before legions of innocent people have been killed because of unsafe firearms being marketed ? The Answer: Blind fkging greed because what is popular sells and the gun industry could not care less how many people get accidentally killed with unsafely designed weapons.
Yes safety devices work that is why we have seat belts, shatter proof glass, back up safeties on lawn mowers, stop bars on chain saws, anti-lock brakes and the list goes on. Safeties save lives that is why they were invented.
As I mentioned before the young mother shot in the head by her 2 year old while shopping when he reached into her purse and pulled out a weapon designed without a manual safety and the other young mother shot in the back when her young toddler pulled her handgun out of its holster from behind her while she was driving and shot her in the back with a .45 acp pistol with no manual safety. Its amazing she did not crash and kill them both instantly.
Yet all this goes right over the head of the Southern Appalachian Jethro Bodine Crowd who will say, I am perfect, I have never made a mistake and never will. Famous last words its just that they often kill innocent people because we should have a law against letting fools even own weapons. Since we cannot do this the next best thing is installing safety devices and yes there is a reason for making tools “Fool Proof” because the biggest crowd of fools are, you guessed it, the “gun owning crowd” that puts the “f” in fool.
Yeah, we need to disband the police force in the U.S. That would bring accountability and justice to the innocent people who were harmed by them or will be harmed by them in the future. There is a reason why their badge is a shield or referred to as such. They are now bastardizing the American flag.
You do realize no one cares enough about your rants to actually read them all the way, right? Does anyone in Cisco care?
Personally, I tend to agree with him about safeties on semiauto pistols. Either that or a double action trigger. It is why I do not own, and never will own, a Glock–I just don’t trust them…but I do trust Murphy’s Law.
Could a Glock be made with a first-round double-action trigger?
Are there any striker-fired guns configured like that?
lol you are just incompetent. Its not the glock you cant trust, it’s your own ability to handle a gun without shooting yourself that you cant trust. Saying glocks are untrustworthy makes you sound like an idiot, they are some of the most reliable guns in the world.
There are plenty of guns that are DA/SA but quite frankly I do not know which ones are striker fired, if any. The ones I am familiar with are hammer fired.
King toad: what an appropriate name for someone who croaks nonsense. I trust myself just fine, but accidents and NDs happen, and there are ways of reducing the risk of Murphy insinuating himself into the action. A five or six pound trigger on a single action pistol with no safety is an accident waiting to happen, in my opinion, and no matter what you croak, I am entitled to my opinion. It is not a question of reliability whatsoever, nor did I suggest that it was. This Glock did not fire because it was unreliable and “went off,” it occurred when someone wasn’t paying attention and, acting hurriedly to pick up his gun, stuck his finger in the trigger guard. Or when one doesn’t notice that his shirt tail or the draw string for his jacket is in the holster. Or has an old holster that has gone soft. A moment’s inattention is all that the ever-present Murphy requires. I choose not to tempt fate. You do whatever you want, but don’t criticize me because I choose otherwise.
That’s probably a good idea for you not to own one
Geoff & Mark- Walther P99 AS
to Mark
quote—————————Could a Glock be made with a first-round double-action trigger?
Are there any striker-fired guns configured like that?————————quote
Yes indeed there is and you can see how little knowledge about firearms there are on this forum or they would have named some of them.
To answer your question the original Walther P99 and at least one Turkish clone model does indeed offer a traditional long double action pull on the first shot. But beware although the gun does have a trigger safety it like the Glock does not work so do not carry the gun in single action mode. It also has one of the most unusual 3rd options which again I do not recommend you use as you can set the trigger to bypass the double action mode and it will be in the forward position with little resistance when you pull the trigger through to the single action stage. You set the trigger by pulling slightly back on the slide.
I own one of these and it failed the high primer test just like the Glock does because both pistols are only partially cocked when in the single action mode resulting in a weak ignition system that can fail under harsh conditions of contamination and cold weather.
Ignore him. No response of any kind. It’s a waste of your valuable time. Besides, if anything pisses off the left, it is to be ignored. lol
Funny how I’ve never had a negligent discharge despite probably spending my time with a Glock on my hip than 90% of FBI agents… it’s almost like the gun won’t go off if you keep your booger hook off of the bang switch.
10 years plus with EDC of Glocks in several different calibers. Never had a problem, but I don’t dance like a jackass when I’m carrying, don’t do drugs of any sort ever and I don’t work for the government.
Must be the difference.
“…don’t do drugs of any sort ever…”
No coffee? No Mountain Dew, colas, or Fanta Orange?
Ever?
You are a bigger man than I, sir…
Recovering caffeine addict, here. Kicked the Soft drink habit over 20 years ago and never went back. Never understood the coffee thing. A couple of sips as a youth and never wanted another.
Yep, caffeine is a drug and probably the most abused, though it does have some beneficial health effects…i can’t do it in moderation.
Moderation in everything.
Including moderation… 😉
While I’d like to admire you, I have a hard time trusting people who don’t do any drugs. My favorites are scotch, gin, Black Rifle Coffee, Graycliff cigars, and the occasional allergy meds.
And this FBI agent is a criminally negligent dumba$$. I’m ok with disbanding the FBI at this point.
. . . reinvestigate Waco first.
OMFG you are one bitter pill Megan “the kid”. What’s the matter this time? Did you misallocate your 401k contributions? Was your welfare check late? Did DUMBAMA care fail to pick up your entire hospital bill? Has the price of cannabis gone up at your neighborhood hoodlum?
Now if you lived in Europe everything would be good with you. No guns, no knives, plenty of sheep and most importantly for you a Muslim government. After all you are a hippie socialist from the 60’s, right? Or a modern day professor of political science who wants to go to war with the president, right? No violent maniacal tendencies in you, right?
Btw, did you know that you can carry a striker fired pistol uncocked? No? Better go back to that middle school you came from. My bad, you didn’t go to school.
Please drop your references to country people as stupid hillbilly’s I have lived in the Appalachians all my life an truly resent your inference.
Agreed on the Appalachian pot shot.
You can tell a Yankee, but you can’t tell him much.
Sergeant, that is what they actually believe you to be.
They are convinced if you ever voted conservative that you are stupid.
So stupid, that you will never be able to recognize that you are stupid. That you should be totally written off, a ‘deplorable’, beyond redemption.
They have nothing but naked contempt for you, or if they feel generous, that you are simply ignorant, and no one has ever explained to you clearly just how superior the Democrat way of doing things is.
They are that fucked up in the head…
Cisco kid: You need to read the book about the development of the original Glock, He studied guns with manual safeties and those without in do or die situations, he determined no manual safety. Your finger is the safety. If it scares you don’t rack a bullet into the chamber or buy a different gun.
People forget if safety is on or not.
Get over it.
To Anon.
They forget there is a safety because they do not train with their gun. If you do not train then why carry a gun as you will not even hit anything if you use it. Leaving a safety off the gun has proven through horrific history that it cripples and kills people. And lets face cold hard facts, unless you are living in the middle of a Middle East Battle with bullets flying your chances of shooting yourself or someone else is astronomically higher without a manual safety, again history has proven it there can be no argument about this.
Again it goes right back to what I previously stated, “I do not need or want a manual safety because an accident will never happen to me.
There can be plenty of argument about this. The overwhelming majority of negligent discharges are called that for a reason. I run tactical shooting competitions, on average, once a month. I’ve seen exactly 0 negligent discharges in the past year because people know how to keep their booger hooks off of the bang switch. If you’re too stupid to do that… well, that’s what the Darwin Awards are all about.
to pwrserge
Quote————————There can be plenty of argument about this. The overwhelming majority of negligent discharges are called that for a reason. I run tactical shooting competitions, on average, once a month. I’ve seen exactly 0 negligent discharges in the past year because people know how to keep their booger hooks off of the bang switch. If you’re too stupid to do that… well, that’s what the Darwin Awards are all about.————-quote
I remember about a year ago seeing an interview with a lady that competed in quick draw contests and she ended up shooting herself in the leg with a .40 Glock that crippled her for life and an ongoing painful incurable condition. The same exact problem was encountered by the police when they adopted years ago the HK squeeze cocker P7 pistol as when they gripped the gun the cocker safety was deactivated resulting in accidental discharges when drawing the gun in a crisis situation. HK then made the grip safety cocker much stiffer which did not cure the problem either and resulted also in shooter fatigue when firing off more than a few rounds resulting in the shooter losing control of the guns fine accuracy.
To Cisco Kid,
Anyone who’s actually shot a HK P7 would tell you that it remains one of the safest handgun designs in the world, and that the squeeze cocking mechanism is slightly cammed to require basically no pressure to keep the grip cocked. As such there is no chance for “shooter fatigue” when firing multiple shots. No question that poor training, or someone with very weak hand muscles, might reflexively contract their entire hand when squeezing with all their might to overcome the mild pressure required to active the P7’s squeeze cocking mechanism, a problem made only worse by idiots mandating stiffer spring pressures. I’d imagine HK would comply with a request to make the grip harder to squeeze, but find it impossible that HK themselves came up with or recommended that course of action as a fix for inadequate grip strength in the first place.
There are plenty of meatbags out there than can serve as cops… there’s no reason we need to accept the weakest among them, or make concessions around equipment choices around fringe cases. This certainly doesn’t eliminate women from serving either, merely the weakest men/women who are incapable of applying 13 pounds of grip strength to activate the grip, and 3 pounds to keep it depressed. Quite frankly if you can’t apply a measly 13 pounds of pressure to grip your gun, it seems dangerous to expect you to be capable of handcuffing an individual resisting arrest either. Sorry, look for a desk job…
P.S. Why do you think having a heavy trigger pull makes a gun safer? Wouldn’t a stressful event result in an adrenaline dump, making a 10lb trigger as easy to pull as a 2lb one? I’m sorry, a firearm is a dangerous tool, like automobiles, knives, etc. Competitors operate lightweight triggers safely on a daily basis… I used to own a Feinwerkbau air rifle with a sub 100 gram (less than a quarter pound) trigger with no issues. A manual safety won’t save you either… you just have to be smart enough to operate a gun PERIOD. I’d much rather train someone that touching the trigger in any way is a dangerous activity, rather than training people that “hey, go ahead and run with your finger in the trigger guard, there’s a 12lb pull weight to keep you safe” or “just activate the safety and you can do whatever you want with the gun”.
@Crisco
“I remember about a year ago seeing an interview with a lady that competed in quick draw contests and she ended up shooting herself in the leg with a .40 Glock that crippled her for life and an ongoing painful incurable condition.”
See my earlier comment about Darwin Awards.
I do rifle to pistol transitions regularly as part of a training class. I have never had my Glock “go off”, and I draw from a retention holster, so I don’t want to hear it. Something tells me this clown was staging her finger on the bang switch.
Tp c4v3,man
And to answer your question on heavy trigger pulls reducing accidents Massad Ayoob the gun writer and Cop did a study on this and when cops went to heavy double action only autos as can be had on the Beretta 92 the accident rates plummeted.
Only the early model HK p7’s had the easy squeeze cock after all the cop accidents they installed the stiffer grip cocker on all the guns. I once briefly owned a P13 gun and the squeeze cocker was very, very stiff and when released it gave a load clickety clack that gave away ones position which of course would immediately get you killed if someone had broke into your house and heard the clickety clack.
The HK P13 also had one of the lousiest trigger pulls I ever experienced on a gun. No it was not hard or stiff but so mushy it was almost impossible to determine when the sear would break. I hated it.
The HK P7 and 13 was also very ammo sensitive as it required ammo with a fast burning rate of powder to get the gas mechanism to work properly. I once loaded up some handloads with the old Hercules Unique powder which is not particularly slow but slower than Bullseye and those loads almost destroyed the gun by letting the gas system open the breach before the bullet had completely left the barrel resulting in sudden and horrendous recoil. Naturally I quit using Unique immediately and stuck with bullseye which worked the action just fine.
The P13 was very heavy for its small size making it a real pain to carry as well.
The P13 also overheated to the point where I thought the plasticky heat shield was going to melt on one hot July day . Without the heat shield the gun would burn the hell out of your hand due to the gas system overheating the gun. All that overheating certainly did not contribute to long barrel life
There was also an incident were a Maryland Cop was killed in a fire fight with a P7 when the firing pin broke, something that gun was noted for doing.
All in all when the P7 first came out I though it would be “The Answer” and remember this was before the invention of the Glock but the P7 turned out to be a disaster of a hand gun and since then I have also had problems with other gas fired hadguns like the Austrian Styer GB P18 which held and incredible 18 shots but again a failure of another gas operated Gun. But that i another story.
Today HK p7 and P13 model guns go for big bucks to collectors, they are extremely accurate if you can master the mushy trigger but for me personally I hope I never see another one.
Best comment I once read about Glocks is that in the Austrian police force, they are carried in external holsters which resemble a box. That way, if and when someone effs up in Condition 0.5 the box catches or slows down the bullet on its way to the ground, not into your leg, femoral etc.
Me? I carry a revolver or a CCO alloy 1911 at 3 o’clock IWB. Accidents happen, I’ve had one before and I prefer a gun that has some measure of prevention against complacency.
Haven’t googled it, but I’m gonna go out on a limb and call BS on the Austrian police and their leg saving bullet slowing box holster.
Makes so much less sense when you word it that way.
I think I found some links to the holster in question. Don’t know if the holster will catch or slow down the bullet, but it is designed to be mounted well outside the waistband away from clothing and drawstrings pointed toward the ground and it is a hard-sided boxy holster.
https://eu.glock.com/en/products/glock-accessories/safety-holster
https://www.ar15.com/forums/handguns/Glock-police-holster-/13-173326/
https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/austrian-military-holsters.1422422/
Alex your links show a holster I am familiar with. Gotta say they’re not quite what you described and a projectile is going right through that one.
Any engineer will tell you that a manual safety is an extra fiddly bit that no gun should have if you can avoid it. Anything can and will break. Since the point of a gun is to go bang when you want it to, any mechanism that intentionally prevents it from doing that has to have a damn good reason for existing.
I can see not having a manual safety but then you should have some other way to manually check the trigger, especially when reholstering. Have a shrouded or bobbed hammer. To me, a striker fired gun with no check against an AD other than a dingus on the trigger face is asking for trouble.
Sykes and Fairbairn would agree with your argument about no safeties but then they had their officers carry with an empty chamber. In a war zone.
Holstering a sidearm is not something that should be done under duress. I always check my rig to make sure my holster is clear before I shove a hot gun into it. It’s not rocket science.
It’s also why my Glock 34 rides in a Safariland rig on my thigh well outboard of my body.
One could make the argument that the only thing more important than a g un going bang when you want it to is that it doesn’t go bang when you don’t want it to (just ask Remin gton).
A manual safety doesn’t prevent that any more than well designed internal safeties. Manual safeties, on the other hand, introduce another needless point of failure and possible training scar.
If your gun can only fire when the bang switch is pulled, you’re good to go. No safeties needed.
Just my humble opinion, but I’ve never carried a semi-auto that didn’t have a safety but It doesn’t bother me to carry a DA/SA revolver with a 10# DA trigger carried in a hol ster that covers the trigger. I don’t think I’d like a 5# striker trigger with no safety. Negligent discharges occur with wildly varying degrees of negligence and I’m probably more likely to be the victim of a brain fart than a criminal. I don’t however have a problem with others carrying pistols with no manual safety as long as they don’t do stupid shit that gets someone else shot.
Well, yeah… If you’re carrying a striker fired pistol, a good kydex holster is a minimum. For active carry (when I run competitions and such) I go with a Safariland retention holster.
In any case, external safeties were necessary back when machining tolerances could legitimately have a gun discharge due to internal failures. With modern striker fired pistols, that’s a mechanical impossibility.
I think it would be the holstering that would make me a bit nervous – that I’d get my sh irt or something caught. When I hol ster my revo lver I place my thumb on the back of the hammer under the spur and place two fingers on the bottom of the belt clip and press them together. Besides the 10# trigger, there’s no way of not noticing the hammer fully cycling back because of an obstruction. I still have a ‘keep it simple stupid’ platform if I have to draw in a panic, but maybe a bit more idiot proof for carry.
Not pissing on anyone else’s preference, I get why some would choose a Glock/non-Glock Glock for carry. S,R&Co has a pretty good idea with offering most everything with or without safety.
to pwrserge
Quote——————–“Any engineer will tell you that a manual safety is an extra fiddly bit that no gun should have if you can avoid it. Anything can and will break. Since the point of a gun is to go bang when you want it to, any mechanism that intentionally prevents it from doing that has to have a damn good reason for existing.——————quote
Yes and here is the image of the damn good reason that proves manual safeties are necessary as it shows the A-Typical Glock Owner.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/3799980919133543/
a commie AND a racist. You just hit all the demokkkrat stereotypes, don’t you crisco?
Reply to power surge in the head
When are you going to l earn the difference between a Socialist and a Communist Jethro. And as far as calling me a racist your racist comments have consistently been made verbatim right out of Hitlers book Mein Kamph. Right Winger equals Nazi and you have proved it by your comments on race and religion many times over.
I’m not the one comparing people to monkeys. Didn’t that just get a show cancelled crisco?
There is zero difference between a socialist and a communist. Both are genocidal vermin that need to get removed from the face of the planet.
Socialism… killing a quarter billion people since 1900 alone and killing people for their organs to this day.
Oh and crisco… the Nazis were socialists… just like you. I’m a civic nationalist. Learn the difference.
Guys, ignore him. It took me a while to learn it. At first I thought I could have a meaningful debate with this fool. Uh, no. Now I don’t read his posts. Really. What’s the point? I only read the replys.
He calls people ignorant hillbillies but he writes on about a seventh grade level. Cisco is a pathetic little man.
Max Michel has a good video: “Picking Up A Gun Off A Table”
https://youtu.be/_zHoU-ViI8A
Is he carrying at 6 O’clock ?
Who taught this guy ?
Some people are too stupid to carry Glocks…or too inebriated.
I am not sure that the agent was actually using a holster to retain his pistol, it appeared that he had it tucked in the waist band of his pants in the small of the back movie style. He appears not to have noticed that he negligently discharges his firearm as he just tucks it away and walks off. The weapon being a Glock if it is was is not relevant, what is relevant is him being apparently intoxicated and placing his finger inside the trigger guard and pressing on the trigger.
Maybe the NYPD’s 12 pound triggers aren’t such a bad idea after all.
Taking away their official immunity and requiring them to be personally “bonded” by an insurance company would go a long way in curtailing incidents such as this. As they have immunity (unlike us mere mortal citizens), they can (and often do) perform with reckless abandon, as there are no consequences for their actions.
Do your research and have your facts straight before you go spewing off at the mouth. There’s no immunity for this.
The real crime is his dancing. My wifes 95 year old mother has better moves. And she hates glocks and carries a walther.
She carries a Walther or Werthers?
That’s funny! No offense to Grace 12.
Both. ‘You get a lot further in life with a Werthers and a Walther than you do with just a Werthers.” Al Capone’s grandmother.
If joe six pack dropped his glock in a bar, drunk, and shot someone he’d be arrested, named, and jailed. Not handed over to his boss.
Well what do ya know! Colorado law has a nice carve out exempting Law Enforcement from criminal liability for negligent discharges. I’m shocked I tell you…shocked.
Colorado Illegal Discharge of a Firearm Statute – C.R.S. 18-12-107.5
“(1) Any person who knowingly or recklessly discharges a firearm into any dwelling or any other building or occupied structure, or into any motor vehicle occupied by any person, commits the offense of illegal discharge of a firearm.
(2) It shall not be an offense under this section if the person who discharges a firearm in violation of subsection (1) of this section is a peace officer as described in section 16-2.5-101, and in the performance of such officer’s duties.
(3) Illegal discharge of a firearm is a class 5 felony.”
Wow, the writer didn’t say “he picked up the gun and it went off.”
“The agent goes to pick the gun up, when he hits the trigger and fires one round.” Finally, someone gets it right.
I for one am just glad to see that morale at the FBI has rebounded to the point of agents actually feeling like dancing after that devastating loss by HRC.
The moral of the story is Mexican carry and back flips are a bad combo.
Well the Feds say no more hiring hookers for the SS and FBI so they have to go trolling like everyone else. Co bar today probably requires a joint or three as well as the adult beverages. Dumbass + booze + pot. What could go wrong.
Who doesn’t have a back-flip holster?
What’s wrong with that guy?
Dancing duty? Or doody?!?😋Remember these are our trained,authorized and bonifide better’s😧😩😖
Anyone else notice the way he picked it up, it looks like his finger went inside the trigger guard?
You can armchair quarterback the reasons why all you want — no safety, glock, whatever — but that’s just improper handling.
You’re exactly right Samr. Regardless of weapon type, 99% of unintentional discharges (my guesstimate) are a violation of rule #2. Finger off the trigger until the sights are on the target!
Blah, blah, blah…. all of you… he was deep undercover, made it “appear” that his gun accidentally fell and when he picked it up he purposely shot the Smersh agent after which the bad guy was transported by the Israeli Mossad in a fake ambulance that arrived awfully quick. They interrogated him like we can’t and recovered the dirty bomb.
And don’t pick on hill folk again or we gonna come make you squeal like a piggy….
this Guy when picking it up put his finger in the trigger guard and on the trigger. He had a Neglagent discharge from not thinking about how to pick up the firearm. Not the guns fault. It’s the user. Plus he obviously didn’t have a secure enough holster.
Yep! He’s “trained” alright! No question about that. Trained in typical government incompetence!
Today’s FBI absolutely reeks of corruption, criminality and incompetence. I would not trust an FBI agent to give me the time of day. If you are an honest and hardworking agent, I’m sorry, but criminals such as Mueller, Comey and McCabe have destroyed your institution from within and betrayed the public trust. Backflipping drunken clowns who shoot people in nightclubs do not help.
Andrew McCabe? Is that you? I’d heard that you were…flexible…but I thought it was only your morals.
Highly trained professional.
hahahahahaha
moron
let’s see if he sues when his name gets released like the DEA guy
Thanks to Heavy.com putting a name and a face to it, we might find out.
https://heavy.com/news/2018/06/chase-bishop/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Erdpzmtg-oE
Colorado Illegal Discharge of a Firearm Statute – C.R.S. 18-12-107.5
“(1) Any person who knowingly or recklessly discharges a firearm into any dwelling or any other building or occupied structure, or into any motor vehicle occupied by any person, commits the offense of illegal discharge of a firearm.
(2) It shall not be an offense under this section if the person who discharges a firearm in violation of subsection (1) of this section is a peace officer as described in section 16-2.5-101, and in the performance of such officer’s duties
One has to meet all the requirements of statue to be convicted.
I don’t think his actions meet the knowingly, did he do recklessly or unintentionally
Then the statue say into he was already inside so he could not have fire into the building. He fired in the building.
I see a lot of problems trying to charge him under this statue.
Reckless endangerment could still apply 8-3-208
No one worry, Mueller will be all over this.
It is 18-3-208
18-3-208. Reckless endangerment
A person who recklessly engages in conduct which creates a substantial risk of serious bodily injury to another person commits reckless endangerment, which is a class 3 misdemeanor
One have ask yourself if picking up fire arm that fell out of your holster after some dance moves meets the definition recklessly engages in conduct that created a substantial risk.
Just because the firearm discharged doesn’t means he was engaging in reckless conduct.
yes it negligent .
In an earlier reply, someone said “In any case, external safeties were necessary back when machining tolerances could legitimately have a gun discharge due to internal failures. With modern striker fired pistols, that’s a mechanical impossibility.”
Huh? The Honor Defense saga was a hoax?
I carry an H&K 45 compact. Concealed only. I have had a problem with holstering it with safety on, then unholsteting it with safety off, in other words, ready to fire. I do not know how this happens but I probably need a new holster. Having this happen does not give me great confidence in the safety. I am responsible for whatever happens which still makes me the final safety. By the way, I am too old to do back flips so I won’t need that specialty holster.
So……. When will Agent Footloose be on, “Dancing with the Stars?”
Image of the mentality of the A-typical Glock Owner. “Many a truth is said in Jest”
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/3799980919133543/
1) The good news is if he’s fired from the FBI, he can get a job with the circus.
2) The patron who got shot in the leg will prob get a hefty settlement b/c now, he won’t be able to appear on DWTS. “Judge, I had a wonderfully promising career as a dancer until he shot me!”
3) It must have been Denver’s thin air that caused him to believe all would be OK if he just did a handspring while packing. Either that or the Ambien.
4) Drinking, dancing & dumbassery: the 3D trifecta of good gun safety.
5) The FBI sure needed a positive ‘Hold my beer’ image boost like this.
6) J. Edgar probably would have liked the handspring.
7) Well, I’ll sleep better knowing guys like him are out there protecting & serving us.
I do not know if this idiot was drunk or not, that being said what was he thinking(not thinking) carrying a gun in his waistband and not in a holster again what an idiot!!! Then he casually walks off the dance floor stuffing the gun in the back of his pants with his hands up in the air and smiling never even knowing if he had shot anyone. HE SHOULD BE FIRED AND FACE SOME SORT OF CRIMINAL CHARGES.
Damn I have a stream-lite on my Glock 19. I have been taking monthly lessons for years. I have learned to be able to re-holster without looking at my holster and I carry in chamber. You guys are trying to scare the shit outta me. I have had no ND’s, but now should I carry Israeli or continue to carry as I always have. I do not like external safeties at all, I keep my finger off the freaking trigger period. I have drooped my Glock twice and it scares the crap out of me, but its like drooping a knife. You do not attempt to catch it, you let it fall and then retrieve it, same as with a gun… Boys I’m 77 in age and I shoot all the time, so pleease stop scaring me. Oh and I also carried a 24/7 Taurus with the external safety and on 2 occasions when I removed it from being holstered the safety was in firing position. It is now my paper weight. Don’t trust it at all. Be safe out there and always watch your six, oh and no dancing or drinking allowed….
Had to be a Glock. This is why I say FU Glock. I don’t want your product anywhere near me. Had to be a Glock. Otherwise soon to be former FBI agent had his SIGG, or FS92 with mechanical safety OFF, which is even worse. There is no good reason for a pistol to discharge becouse of a drop. Unless it is a Glock. I get it, USSS,, DSS , FBI, and some in JSOC love it becouse they can draw without thumbing safety. Fine. But there is a downside. For me its SIG P226 and for personal off duty (and home ) it is Walther PPQ M2.
I like Glocks, but I’d buy a new Glock if a new model were offered with a manual safety that wasn’t too awkward.
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