There was a time in this country when you could have firearms shipped straight to your door. The Gun Control Act of 1968 put a stop to that for the most part, implementing the current Federal Firearms Licensing system that we see today and requiring firearms to be shipped to dealers and not directly to end users. Some enterprising people decided to sign up as “gun dealers” themselves with their home address as their “place of business,” allowing them to order guns directly from distributors (at reduced prices) and even own post-sample machine guns (with the proper paperwork). We’ve been hearing for some time that the ATF is putting an end to the availability of home FFLs, but now it looks like distributors are following suit.
The latest from the ATF is that home-based FFLs will continue to be valid and may be renewed, but new ones will not be issued. Those wishing to obtain an FFL must actually be “in the business” of selling firearms — however the ATF chooses to define that phrase — with a proper storefront and everything.
Things get worse, though. Word comes from Epic Tactical that RSR group will no longer be shipping firearms from their distribution center to home based FFLs.
Sales representatives with RSR Group have confirmed that after June 21st 2016 they will no longer be shipping firearms to home based FFL’s. According to RSR Group the ATF has informed them that they will no longer issue home based FFL’s and that if the home based FFL does not renew their license it will be terminated and they cannot get it back under their residence. However the ATF is allowing current home based FFL’s to renew their FFL’s at this time.
The ATF has been looking to eliminate these “kitchen counter FFLs” for years, and it looks like they are finally succeeding. Not only are they eliminating the licensees through attrition, but they are now pressuring the distributors to eliminate one of the biggest incentives to maintaining that FFL.
The ATF needs to be abolished.
As well as the FFL system.
I have already been contacted by two of my distributors about my account being suspended/restricted due to low order volume. Very convenient timing there. I have spent several days this week explaining to my suppliers that I am not a kitchen table dealer, but that my order volume is low because I am mostly and ammunition business. The ATF absolutely needs to be abolished and the mucky mucks that schemed all of the regulations should be put in jail for treason.
I was just recently contacted by RSR advising me that my account will be limited to non firearm items only. After reading this article I know why. I had a store front for many years and decided to move my business to my home to only doing gunsmithing now, which I still purchase and sell firearms at a low volume. Especially now and up until the end of the month, majority of my time i have been attending school for my graduate degree. Further, I have a full time employer I must attend to as well. I do not have the time to open up another store front especially not knowing what the hell this communist State of California is going to do with these recent proposed laws they are trying to pass This decision is b.s. to have the distributors to be pressured by ATF to restrict the purchases of firearms to the ALREADY established home base FFL’s who have been in business for some time.
Exactly
Here is yet another attack on our 2nd Amendment rights, free enterprise, the right to conduct legal business, the right of hard working folks to try and better themselves, etc., etc.
I can think of no other home based business that has been terminated in such a manner. An attack on a legal business is no laughing matter. First it was ‘Operation Choke Point’, and now this, all in the name of taking more of our 2nd Amendment rights from us, with the end result being the disarming of America, one step at a time, like a frog in boiling water, so we don’t even notice. This is not being covered by anyone in the media. Google it, you won’t see anything about it. Americans should be all over this and calling the BATF out in droves. What makes a lawn service, a car washing service, a dog boarding service, a home cleaning service, etc., etc., any better than a home based FFL, so that they don’t come under this type of scrutiny? Home based FFL’s have to jump through all kinds of hoops to do business, keep meticulous records, etc., and yet they are being banned and treated as if they are criminals.
Welcome to the Reservation…..
Russell Means Americans are the New Indians.
YouTube video Mr. Means in just over 90 minutes gives his point of view from that of an American Indian he also points out the importance of the Constitution numerous times in the video.
I called ATF and they said this is not true…. I’m waiting on mine to come in right now so we will see
I was just approved for mine and it’s on it’s way
Sounds reasonable and sensible…..closing the gun show loophole….
Which will accomplish what, exactly?
I think you’re mistaken. The alleged gun show loophole refers to unlicensed vendors (typically a regular guy with a couple of guns to sell, or even perhaps an inherited estate) selling guns at shows. By definition, a kitchen table FFL actually possesses an FFL, and abides with all the relevant laws pertaining to background checks, filling out 4473 forms, etc. I’ve purchased most of my guns lately from a fellow who sells only at shows or from his residence. He follows the same rules as the big storefronts.
I believe the name of the game is sarcasm, gentlemen. However, that usually has difficulty coming through text based communication.
I was able to see your sarcasm font on my highly sophisticated AI computer.
I found a dealer in my neighborhood who sells from his house. His entire second floor is devoted to his business. He also sells ammo and is a great gunsmith. I prefer going to him for a couple reasons. #1, he is a local small business. #2 is the convenience. #3 is his knowledge, which he willingly shares. #4 is his prices can’t be beat, and since I am a regular, I can buy from a website, have the gun shipped to him, and pay a minimal price for him to do the transfer. The biggest reason is selection. I tell him what I want, including scopes and accessories, and it is usually there in 3 days. This man has no other job. He has limited shop hours, as gunsmithing takes up a lot of his time, but a simple phone call will get me in the door.
I also got an 03 Curio and Relic License. I’m just wondering how much longer that will last
Ots not the gun show loop hol3. Thw gun show loop hole applies to private sales from party to party woth out having to go through an FFL at all.
Say what now?
And what “loophole” would that be? We are talking about licensed dealers, who by federal law, have to perform a background check for every sale.
You are fool… there is no “gun show loophole” and there never was.
There are extensive background checks to become an FFL…. go learn reality.
Idiot
I don’t know how they do things in Indiana, but i think you’ve been watching too much liberal TV. What loophole are you referring to? I’ve had to pass a federal background check EVERY time i have purchased a firearm, gunshow or not. Surely what you meant was restriction of private sale, which has NOTHING to do with gun shows.
Actually we in Indiana are very much pro gun. In fact our state is among the least restrictive in regards to gun laws. Which is why Obama likes to blame us for Chicago’s gang violence. I think Tom was being sarcastic.
I KNOW he was…
I think your forgot the /s tag 😉
except that it doesn’t exist…..
There is no gun show loop hole. All dealers sealing at gun shows must to the standard background check and all paper work.
Dealers at gun shows must do background checks and all normal paperwork . There is no GUN SHOW LOOP HOLE.
What loophole? All small FFL holders run NICS checks just like all the bigger FFLs do.
Soon there will be onerous and cost prohibitive security requirements for store front FFLs as well. Those who are against civilian firearm ownership will never stop pushing the regulation envelope.
Out here in ol CA, we already have that.
There already are. I have several friends who own gun stores. I do not envy the legal hoops they jump through just to stay in business. Once upon a time I thought I wanted to run a gun shop or maybe be a smith. Not anymore. My back doesn’t let me bend over that far.
Consolidate all the discreet Mom and Pop shops into a large retail space and hang a neon sign over the door that practically reads “come steal from me”. Sounds like a great plan…
I just renewed last month and do business with RSR but have not heard anything about this decision yet. Throw in the 9th Circuit’s latest ruling that the 2A doesn’t protect your right to CC in public and we’re moving quickly toward a 2 state system: you have nearly unrestricted rights or none at all, depending upon where you live.
That is why you vote with your feet. If living in a SLAVE STATE like CA, NY, NJ is more important to you than being free, so be it. We havn’t put up fences to keep Californicators from getting out YET.
Easy there. Some of us are fighting behind enemy lines in the People’s Republic of California, which is why you see cases like Peruta.
Considering the 9th’s ruling yesterday on Peruta, I’m very tempted to say that doesn’t mean a lot. However, there is a glimmer of hope. Since the state banned open carry, and now severely limits concealed carry to elites and a handful of others, there is the possibility of suing over the destruction of the right to carry. Not sure that’ll go far though. From here you have a house full of obtuse politicians who don’t care about your rights.
So RSR group decided to change their policy not based on any change in in the law. Sound more like an excuse to not service small time dealers than anything the ATF is telling them.
Actually what happened is RSR sent an AR 15 to a home-based FFL, UPS failed to get a delivery signature for it and it was excepted by a teenager so UPS was really at fault but RSR didn’t want the liability of it all
You can’t count on carriers to get the signature thing right. I had a guitar delivered with signature required, UPS left it on my porch in the dead of winter where I didn’t get home until 11 PM. I was not happy.
They pulled that stunt last week at my house, leaving a S&W Shield on my porch.
I am a home based dealer that DID business with RSR. When my sales rep called me to give me the bad news that is exactly what he had told me. UPS had failed to do its job properly and now RSR is just not going to deal with home dealers.
This is all very sad to me as I wanted to move the business out of my house and into a store front. But it has been about impossible to get a business loan and now this. I just hope the part about the ATF still allowing renewals of FFLs for home dealers is true. It is sad they will not accept new ones though. I will maintain mine as long as possible.
So you need a storefront. What about the major online sellers that actually make a living and have employees selling online but don’t have a retail space? Does a warehouse or storage garage with a physical address separate from your home constitute a “storefront?”
Looks like a lot of people who live on “123 Derp St.” will soon have their FFL at “123 Derp St. Unit A”
If it weren’t for that whole ATF Agent interview to get your FFL you might have a point.
Exactly correct, sir!
Well that sucks!
Unless you can build your firearm of choice, you will not be able to keep and bear it, if YOU CANNOT BUY IT.
The 2nd Amendment doesn’t say you have the right to keep and bear arms if you can produce it. The latest D.C. Circuit case essentially established the inherent right TO OBTAIN A FIREARM so that you can exercise your Second Amendment right.
Actually, that was the Ninth Circuit, which held that zoning ordinances that have the effect of banning gun stores is subject to strict scrutiny. This is the same circuit that today declared there is not right to carry a concealed weapon in public, but declined to say if there was a right to open carry (which by the way is banned in all cities and tows in California).. The D.C. district court rules in Grace v. D.C. that “may issue” is unconstitutional, and issued a preliminary injunction prohibiting D.C. from operating its may issue system. A stay pending appeal has been issued by the D.C.Circuit Court of Appeals.
Thanks for the correction. Yes, the 9th Circuit case remanding Teixeira v. County of Alameda to the lower courts.
But that happened a long, long time ago, right? Wasn’t it like . . . LESS THAN A MONTH AGO.
So Obama wants more background checks, but fewer people capable of running them. Yeah, got it, thanks.
He also wants to make clear that even somebody selling a handful of guns at a profit is in the business of dealing in firearms, and must have a FFL, which he is not allowed to get because he doesn’t have a storefront, and is therefore not in the business of dealing in firearms.
I wonder how the ATF justifies the hypocrisy of defining “in the business” for the purpose of requiring a FFL as selling more than an (undefined) number of guns, but probably no more than five or ten, but then defining “in the business” for the purpose of obtaining a license as requiring a storefront.
I hear it will depend on whether you hold the money up to your shoulder or brace it against your arm when you take it from the customer.
Yeah, I came here to point out this exact contradiction.
I guess the ATF will no longer go after people buying and reselling on the side, since they aren’t in the business without a storefront? I guess they could argue that you NEED a storefront to do that whether you have one or not.
Blargh. Not sure why they are allowed to crap on home based businesses. I guess the rest of the fed has been doing that for years. :p
Catch 22, anyone?
DaveL, Outstanding point! Glad you brought it up! I hope this goes to court and your point is used to attack the BATF for this action.
The ATF already sends industry operations people to each new FFL location prior to approving the application. Among other things, they ask to see that you have the proper licenses, safe storage location, and so on to do business. That is how they determine that you are in it to make a profit. If you make it past that review, you should be good to go. This sounds more like Distributors not wanting to deal with low volume accounts.
Not when the ATF refuses to issue new FFLs to home-based businesses.
Exactly. ATF is not changing anything. This is simply a distributor making a business decision. Nothing more, nothing less.
I’ve done over 3 million in sales through RSR in the past 5 years. All through my home based FFL, guess what? I’m in the same boat, they already changed my account to non-firearms. it’s ridiculously. There has to be something that can legally be done. They are going to bankrupt us. Any lawyers in the group?
Wow! That is impressive, is it all online sales? I just got my FFLabout a month ago, the agent never said anything about homebased business on the chopping block (and I live in Calif). I just looked at the RSR website and they are requiring a storefront address.
Well would you look at that. The Occupier in Chief in Washington D.C. promised to use his pen to stick it to us. Looks like he is doing exactly that.
This is an assault on home businesses, not just firearms. Next people who operate childcare out of their homes will need storefronts (and more importantly for the government more taxes) as will handymen, carpenters, landscapers, accountants, etc., etc. This current government wants total control over every aspect of our lives.
The Democrats put up a pretense of being for the little guy and protecting us from those ‘evil corporations’, but in reality they are completely in bed with big business. They put up every barrier imaginable to keep the little guy from going out on his own and competing with the big corporations.
“Party of the working man”… who works at Goldman-Sachs.
No wonder the DNC had to rig the primaries.
Dev, I completely agree with your comment, good points!
This started years ago with ATF, like 20 years ago when I was a dealer.
It is also pushed by bigger stores to cut out competition.
Makes it easier on fed’s when doing checks but you never hear of them laying off. Strange that!
What if a home FFL moves? Will they process the move paperwork? Or will they cut it off then?
I called today because I am moving. I am a fulltime gunsmith and engraver operating out of my house. They told me there should not be an issue unless deed restrictions prevented a business at the property.
Nice work! Sorry I thought yer name was a nom deplume! Sorry!
When I got my FFL, the ATF agent told me that they will issue to residential addresses, IF they were zoned for retail or manufacturing (depending on the type of FFL.) If your location is not zoned properly, you can apply for a variance.
Many wholesalers will not sell to FFLs that do NOT have a retail store.
Heretofore, I’ve had nothing but good luck dealing with Lipseys, Davidsons, RSR, Zanders, and MGE. I may not buy a lot but my money’s just as green.
My rep at Davidson#s affirmed me the other day that the owner explicitly stated that he will NOT cut off home-based dealers. THANK GOODNESS! WHY exactly RSR decided to go ahead with that, I am not sure. My old rep at RSR told me that 20 to 30% of his clients were home-based. Aside from that, I’d rather have 100 buyers spending $1000, than one buyer who spends $100,000, because if I lose a few buyers, I’m still off very nicely, but if I lose that one buyer, I have nothing. Alas, Davidsons and Zanders and whoever will want to work with me (read: take my money) will get my business, so I can keep on making all my clients happy!
‘Those wishing to obtain an FFL must actually be “in the business” of selling firearms…’
So in order to get an FFL you must already be ‘in the business’ of selling firearms, so therefore you must be in the business of selling firearms without a FFL before you can get a FFL. Then they can deny you a FFL and arrest you for multiple federal felonies.
Here comes the new wave in office real-estate. Leasing offices to dozens and dozens of FFLs in an area so that they all can a business address.
You have to do all FFL related transactions on the premises that is listed on your FFL. You can’t have a business address somewhere else and still conduct transfers from your home. That is a quick way to have your license revoked.
So I’m supposed to list the county fair grounds as my business address if I sell at gun shows?
That is so misleading. My response will probably be considered misleading as well since it is short.
The FFL is not for a person. It is for an address. You can do business at your home and at a storefront, but each address needs its own FFL.
If you are at an official gun show you xan sell with the FFL from home or the business as long as the gun is entered into the bound book for the FFL you are displaying at the show.
You cannot sell at the “fair grounds” or anywhere else if that address does not have an FFL or an official gunshow where you display your FFL.
And where in the 1968 Gun Control Act does it say that only business with storefronts are eligible to be in the business of selling firearms? Because if it doesn’t specify that in the law, doesn’t that mean that if you don’t have a storefront then you can’t be in the business of selling firearms and therefore don’t need a license to sell guns?
Something tells me this will have to be worked out in the courts.
By the way, I have no connection whatsoever to northcoastbooks and am not in fact selling anything on ebay, so please disregard the link in my comment under ‘Gun Control Act’.
At first, they came for the home based FFLs, and I said nothing.
This is pretty appalling bald-faced tyranny by the ATF. Not sure what RSR Group intends to gain by cutting off the small retailers, but they should incur the wrath of all American gun owners/buyers for their complicity in said tyranny.
The move from the ATF is pretty much standard SO. What is truly appalling is that the distributors and manufacturers (by their silence) are throwing existing home based FFLs under the bus by going along with it all.
BATFE: “Doing everything we can think of to limit the number of gun transactions covered by Brady background checks.”
The ATF needs to go away.
In Alaska 85% of the dealers are home based FFLs, its going to hurt buyers in this state.
“its going to hurt buyers in this state.” That’s the point, to keep people from buying firearms in any way possible.
This makes no sense. What about the dealer’s I see in every trade show every weekend around the northwest. They don’t see out of their homes, they run background checks, and just run a circuit effectively…
This also sounds like a chicken or egg problem. To get a license to do business you must be established in a business you can’t legally have without the license…
That’s how they owtlawed marijuana
You have to acquire a sales tax license or business license from your state before you can get an FFL. It does not mean you have to operate a gun business illegally before the ATF will give you a license. It just means you must set up a legit business. That way, every swinging dick isn’t applying for an FFL just so they can get firearms at distributor cost.
Having a home based bidness(but not guns) we have to perform lots of strategic moves to stay afloat. So -called home FFL’s need to set up appointment only based storefronts or what not. Or turn your garage into a shop. There are some around here that are nearly impossible to contact(answer yer phone!)… Does this affect C&R at all?
“Or turn your garage into a shop.”
That may be a problem, unless your property is zoned dual use.
Some localities don’t allow businesses in an area zoned residential. And it is not uncommon that deed-restricted subdivisions have the same rules-regulations…
I wonder how this will square with the Americans With Disabilities Act? Many people work from home under the provisions of that law as a “reasonable accommodation”… I would find it hilarious if someone sued the ATF for violating the ADA.
That is a brilliant idea
In my burb south of Chiraq we can’t “advertise” in front of the house or have regular posted hours. Other than that it’s good to go. We also don’t want “drop ins”…not a subdivision either-a grid regular neighborhood. Once again how does this affect Curio & Relic holders?(if at all)…
I’m confused, I thought they wanted people doing background checks… that’s what FFLs do… what’s the problem?
Oh right, they don’t REALLY want more background checks.
The FFL system is a government enforced monopoly to protect an obsolete business model. Brick and mortar stores don’t like home based FFL’s undercutting them. We should return to pre-68 gun laws and be able to buy firearms privately across state lines, online, etc, just like we can do with just about any other product. The majority of gun stores do not need to exist and we’d be better off as a whole without them. Guns will be cheaper to buy directly online. Used guns would be easier to sell and buy. The remaining gun stores would be better off when they adapt to be specialty shops.
At the very least, these home based FFL’s help fight the brick and mortar stores.
Does anyone else notice that this article has nothing in writing or otherwise from the ATF or the justice department. It’s based on a blogger who had a talk with an RSR rep.
This strikes me as funny, but not in a good way.
Many, many years ago, RSR started out as a storage rental and U-haul truck renter on the east side of Orlando FL.
You called on the phone, and if you were “picking up” you went to the same counter and stood in line behind Bubba moving to Montana.
I “worked” ( got run over by a semi and in a wheelchair, the shop owner allowed me to come in everyday, run the store and sell and such. for no pay of course) in a small gun shop run by a X-cop who was a garage dealer for the past years before he retired and got a storefront.
After a year of having a store, he started (well, tried) a coalition of stocking dealers. His aim was to run the home people out of bizz, as they were cutting into his sales as a “real” dealer!
His number one target was RSR. They were known to sell to anyone with a FFL, and proud of it.
Now back then, you could not sell at a gun show if you were a FFL holder, only at your place of bizz listed on your FFL.
The coalition failed, because most all the guns shops hated each other, and RSR started growing larger by selling to any and all that could buy legally.
Seeing RSR now take this stance to cut out tabletop dealers reminds me so much of that time.
People forget were they come from,what made them what they are today and reinvent themselves so much they don’t even see it.
But, may be there are no people in the company left from the beginning, and maybe it is just that they don’t give a crap.
With allocation of hot selling items to only top dealers and the scarcity of guns over the last few years, why waste time on the little guys.
So does Nick have anything in writing from ATF stating this? I just had my interview for my FFL and it went swimmingly. My OIO said she would be recommending issuance of the license. My place of business will be my home address. She did make it painstakingly clear that federal firearms licenses are for dealers who are in business, not just for collectors who wish to buy wholesale firearms for themselves, which makes sense. I set up an LLC, my location is zoned for business use, and I the appropriate state and local business licenses. Everyone I dealt with that the ATF was cordial and helpful. All that being said I don’t have a license in hand yet. We’ll see if it shows up in my mailbox in the next 3 or 4 weeks I guess.
They want universal background checks, yet keep working to limit the number of places where one could obtain a background check. Hmmmm. I wonder if that’s by accident.
So… Obama Exec orders require the ATF to put the hammer to casual collectors and sportsmen who may modify their collections via private transactions with other collectors and sportsmen: hit them with a felony charge of being a dealer without a license even if they have no storefront. If said collector or sportsman tries to get a license so he isn’t charged with a felony, he is refused a license. Makes perfect sense – if your intent is to create a no-win catch-22 so government can take the hammer to gun owners.
WOW, Ok first off as a home based dealer this will hurt some (thank god we also have an office, need to transfer the the FFL to that location)But in the end this is for the good of us all. No the ATF does not need to be disolved. What needs to go away are the big on-line retailers like BUDS, Cheaper Then Dirt, Guns America etc. As a dealer I’ve seen profit margins on guns slowly disappear over the year, (hell there are guns I can buy for less at BUDS then I can buy with my wholesale account at RSR) this is wrong. This whole process is done in an attempt to drive profit margins back up. Who of us as a dealer agrees with the slim margins we make? Who? This was not the case 15-20 years ago. It’s hard to make a living selling just guns anymore. Getting rid of home based ?, YES if they are not actually in the business to make money, and just have the lic to further there collection.get rid of them. ALSO SHUT DOWN THE MEGA ONLINE RETAILERS. I’m all in for gun rights and the 2A but Im also motivated by profits. MAKE OUT OF STATE ONLINE SALES ILLEGAL.. This will drive profits back up and make everyone happy……
“But in the end this is for the good of us all. No the ATF does not need to be disolved. What needs to go away are the big on-line retailers like BUDS, Cheaper Then Dirt, Guns America etc”
What needs to go away is the idea that government interference in the gun marketplace is a good thing as long as it’s helping YOU. That’s BS. It’s BS to think that regulating how and where businesses sell their goods is a good thing as long as the industry makes better profits. No, that’s not how the market works. If you want higher profits, then you need to change the way YOU do business, not try to force other people to change the way they do business.
Jason, Seriously????
Example: lets say you applied to Nike to get wholesale pricing from them; and they gave it to you. Then you went around selling there products below what there MSRP was? Then lets say 100 more people did the same thing, sooner or later people would stop going to the store, then the store would be forced to close for lack of business. Its the same thing with guns. No gun store in the country can keep the light bill paid making 30-50 per gun sale, they’ed have to sell 200 units a day/every day. if you don’t have overhead (store/employee’s/insurance/rent) of course you can sell for less, but look who your affecting EVERYONE up and down stream.. Can you buy a car right from FORD, can your beer right from Budweiser, can you buy milk from a cow? The whole economy is based on the manufacture/wholesale/retailer linage and when someone steps in and starts selling products a 1-2% over cost sure thats gonna upset allot of people and take $ out of everyones pockets
Which is a market problem, not a government problem.
I’m sorry that you are having difficulty competing with the big online discounters, but welcome to the modern world. It appears that you are under some kind of illusion that your situation is unique to the gun business, I can assure it is not. Thirty years ago I owned a toy store and I bought the Monopoly games I sold in my store at Walmart because they were cheaper there than I could get them from Milton Bradley, even if I ordered in a quantity large enough to get their maximum discount, once shipping was taken into account. The Walmart was in the next town nine miles down the road and honestly with a few exceptions like some popular board games we went out of our way to not carry anything that they did because there was no way we could beat them on price, or even come close. Instead we found ways to differentiate ourselves from the competition, we carried lots of European toys that were just breaking into the US like Playmobile, Brio, Lego etc. There is always going to be someone who tries to crowd out the other guys by trading profit margin for volume, it is the nature of the business, I suggest you get used to it.
I have a home-based FFL / SOT and have had nothing but great experiences with the BATFE. The head Agent in our area is a great guy, easy to work with, and an awesome source of information. I also practice business law as my primary source of income, with a sub-specialty in firearm law and representation of FFL’s and firearm owners, generally. There has never been an indication from any of my conversations with the BATFE agents that home-based FFL’s are on the chopping block; you do have to be in the business and comply with all of the same regulatory requirements as a brick & mortar FFL and must be in compliance with all state and local laws, including zoning requirements. My experiences with the BATFE has been fine, distributors and wholesalers on the other hand have been a nightmare – many had no interest in smaller, home-based startups like me, but RSR Group was truly the exception to the rule. Easy to work with and decent pricing – I had a great relationship with my representative and things were going great. Over the last 6-9 months things have changed, my rep left the company and I was constantly getting a different person each time I called to place or coordinate an order and the service was not nearly as good. Then yesterday I got the call from someone at RSR Corporate to inform me that they were going to a “no home-based FFL policy” and while the really appreciated my business I could go hump a duck. They said it was a new corporate policy based upon “safety” concerns and that it had nothing to do with order volume or a lack of appreciation of all my prior business; further if I ever opened a storefront I was welcome back to the fold. Needless to say I was not impressed. I enjoy my firearm business and it fits nicely with my firearm law practice as clients are customers and vice versa but it will be interesting to see how all of this plays out – license was just renewed through 2019 so I guess I will remain an FFL for awhile but to no meaningful end if all the folks in the supply chain, who should be on our side, keep cutting us off. Nice Job RSR – Thanks for Nothing!!
Well said Kevin, except the last part about RSR. We run a gov’t contracting company and RSR has always taken very good care of us. This policy change as I stated above is to get rid of the rif-raf. The ATF a few years back did one major house cleaning and got rid of (working from memory)almost 1/3 of all FFL holders. The ones they got rid of were the ones that had Lic and only had it to further there collection and take care of there buddies. Again this move is going to be a bit painful, for now. Eventually it will be for the better. Of course im saying this because I own a brick-n-mortar business (all be it, not open for retail sales). If we keep going on the route were on the only place to buy a gun will be at one of the Mega online stores, thats just not right…
Couldn’t agree more Homebased FFLs / Mega dealers like Buds/KYGunCo have wrecked an industry … Soon there won’t be LGS’s to ship those transfers too.
Good bye to the cerakoting businesses that require a FFL just to coat the lower receiver.
Make no mistake, there are large FFL’s in on this to put out the competition.
There are a few distributors that still ship to home based FFLs, even though most distributors are dropping them like it’s hot. While RSR and Accusport have both dropped a large number of accounts recently, I know that Zanders, Crow Shooting Supply, and Davidsons are still accepting accounts.
This is still America. If there’s money to be made, someone will do it.
As a guy with a FFL at my home address, here’s the deal with getting a “home based FFL:”
1. You must have a FFL to make a buck off guns. In my case, I don’t sell guns. If I could do what I do without a FFL, I would do so. The ATF made the rule that if you’re in a business that makes money from guns (not just the sale of guns), you need a FFL. Engravers, people who make and/or checker gunstocks, people who make ammo components as well as loaded ammo, gunsmiths, gun refinishers, heat treatment plants, machine shops that make certain gun components, you name it – if you’re making a buck off servicing, changing, refinishing, building, guns… you need a FFL.
2. The requirement for being a “business” to get a FFL comes down to this: You take money from other people for what you do to/with/for guns. I take money from people to repair/etc guns. That’s “a business” as far as the ATF is concerned, and therefore I need a FFL.
3. Now, as for the “home based” requirement. During the Clinton administration, the ATF added a requirement to the FFL application procedure. You must have your premises in an area zoned for business. In my case, we’re in a rural area, which was zoned for ag, rural residential, etc, but not “business.” OK, so I applied to the county and got a zoning variance which took two hearings, a hundred+ bucks of application fees, some time/drawings/etc to get the variance. It used to be that you could have a FFL at your residential address, with no requirement of a business license (that was a local or state issue), zoning (a local issue), sales/use tax license (state or local issue). The ATF had no interest in these issues, much as the ATF has no interest with State Department ITAR issues for Type 07 FFL’s.
4. The FFL examiner comes out to inspect your premises on the FFL application. My examiner came out, saw our shop, verified it had doors & windows that lock, that we had a safe, that we had the business licenses, zoning variance, etc all in place, and three weeks later, we had a FFL.
the criminal scum at the ATF getting as much done as they can before the Oscumbo regime is booted out of the White House.
I’m actually sick of home based FFLs who by in large violate MAP, sell 5$ over cost, and generally make margins which are already low even lower.
Again, Well said Nick and the whole point of this. Now lets get the same rules to apply to the big mega online stores
Just recieved my 2nd FFL (home based) a few months ago. No changes from when I orginally did it 5 years ago in a different state. Still need to be “in the business” of selling firearms. Also, alot of distributors are implementing Minimum Advertised Prices (MAP) in addition to MSRP. This is to help keep anyone from selling products for significantly less than MSRP and undercutting everyone else. Like someone else who mentioned it above, I have seen prices on BUDS or Sportsmans Warehouse for less than my wholesale prices! This is also because the largest distributors don’t allow accounts without storefronts and large investments in inventory. I am just a small online retailer (shooters-headquarters.com) and do training and transfers also, but dont have a storefront… I am not sure how much I truly believe from this article. I had no issues whatsoever getting my FFL.
Yep, RSR told me two weeks ago that the post office identified my address as a residential address. June 20th I’ll be cut off from buying guns but can still buy accessories. I can show them pictures of signage in front of my house and retail space inside and they will consider if they will continue to sell guns to me. Funny thing is, I don’t buy many guns from them anyway, they never have what I need in stock.
Where did you find this “latest from the ATF”? A quick search of their website yielded no results? While I know that the ATF loves to interpret laws, unless you can cite an official source, I will consider this rumor.
TheTruthAboutGuns.com where did you get your information from? I can’t find anything on the ATF website referring to this matter. Also, I can’t find anything cited in your article. I would like to know more so if you wouldn’t mind shooting me a resource I would appreciate it.
Sounds like more attempts at back door gun control to me….
According to the agent I spoke to at the Denver Field office, she has not heard of any move to stop issuing FFL to home-based businesses. Now, this wouldn’t be the first time a federal agency has kept their low-level agents out of the loop until the last minute, but that’s the current word she claimed to have. Does anyone have more confirmed information? A press release, letter, etc.?
Looks like I wasted my money on FFL123. Guess it’s my fault for moving to slow
Just spoke to ATF and there’s no change in the in home based FFL’s. I was told that they will still continue to issue licenses in the future and home based business will not be affected. Don’t know where this is coming from and ATF hasn’t issued any type of formal notice.
I was also notified last week by RSR they would no longer sell me firearms. I have a laser engraving business and needed a FFL for engraving firearms. RSR was the only place I had that would sell to me. In nearly 3 yrs. have only sold around 20 firearms, but that was not my reason for getting the license. But, really no loss as they rarely have what I am looking for, and I can actually buy from another dealer cheaper than RSR will sell to me
The ATF has always been down the throats of the American People about gun ownership on all fronts. They are mad because they created restrictions for certain types and the People have found loopholes to not break those laws but go around them to own certain said firearms. they were stupid when they wrote the laws, and they pay for it by smarter people using those laws and being able to abide but go around them so to speak to own what it is they are making the laws for anyway. they will stop at nothing to try to disarm the citizens and we need to fight, join the NRA if you haven’t already, get more involved in our rights and protect those said rights. its getting too close to crunch time and if we don’t take a stand, our actions will have no bearing on what the outcome will be. everyone always says, ” stand up to the government” well I think its been time to do that, just like our fore fathers said. we will be worse off if we don’t.
Seriously.. your assuming ATF is going to stop dealing out licenses to home based FFL’s based on RSR’s decision to not sell firearms to home base FFL’s.. and basing it only on a hear say from a RSR representative? RSR has nothing to do with the ATF other than needing to have a license and permit. Please check with other sources before writing these type of articles.
RSR is a nice place to buy from, but they were not always the cheapest place to buy from unless you were a key dealer. There are a lot of other choices you can buy from for home based dealers.
OK, so then we become criminals by buying on the street then comfortable in the knowledge that they won’t be coming after me now that I am a criminal. hmmmmm
And it does not stop there either. Yesterday the California Supreme Court had the gall to declare that Americans have no right to concealed carry for self protection because they were a danger to “the ruling elite”. Since they did not clarify as to whether open carry was legal they may have painted themselves into a corner because they eventually will also declare that illegal also which would completely nullify now deceased Judge Scalia’s ruling that the Second Amendment applied to American Citizens not just the police and military. Never mind the Supreme Court will ignore that ruling as well. They have shown that the Constitution means absolutely nothing to them and it is they that dole out what rights you can or cannot have. And Americans are naïve enough to think there is a difference between the rights of Americans and the citizens of the Soviet Union. There is no difference neither country gives its citizens any rights according to their own Constitutions. The Constitutions of both countries always have been a joke, a sham, and a complete illusion of the proletariat.
I spoke with my rep at RSR this morning and they have moved the date back to 8/31. Possible good sign?
Your article has some truth about wholesalers and a lot of hearsay about the ATF. STOP writing articles without getting all the facts!!!!!!!!!!! CONFIRM WITH THE ATF BEFORE YOU MAKE THESE ALLEGATIONS!
From what I can find (or lack of substantiating evidence) YOU ARE WRONG about home based FFL licensing! STOP fear mongering the FFL community!
That’s going to be kind of funny that my home address and my shop are on the same exact land and have the same exact address all people everybody looks like your black-market will start
I question this story. I just got my home FFL 01 3 weeks ago. Have applied to multiple distributors and been told they are backlogged with new applicants.
Even a third grader can grasp the concept of ‘SHALL NOT BE INRINGED’
I believe what the ATF and federal government itself does not seem to realize is that all the gun laws do is make it harder on the people and businesses that follow the laws. A criminal does follow said laws and will find ways to obtain a firearm through many possible ways the most well known is the straw man which is in itself illegal but the criminal doesn’t care as long as they get to do what they want. So I’m wondering how long until the feds realize that they are the ones enabling the increase in criminal activity by making the rest of us jump through various hoops and pay large amounts of money to stay legal.
The next step is to refuse renewal.
My “home based FFL” is a custom shop. I work especially in expensive rifles and have invested well into 6 figures in machinery, tooling, inventory and status tracking software… Sure, they claim I will be allowed to renew because I have an existing business now but it doesnt take Nostradamus to predict the next tightening of regulations.
Thankfully I am largely unaffected by this for now as I don’t carry walk-in inventory from places like Ellet Brothers, RSR or Jerry’s.
FYI Jerry’s stopped shipping or even opening accounts for non storefront FFLs years ago.
It looks like there will be alot of home based gunsmiths who will be repairing guns without an FFL, and to be safe, they won’t be claiming the labor on their income tax.
Depending on who becomes our next president will determine how much worse or better the ATF regulations will become.
So the distributors aren’t distributing anymore. Everyone stamp your feet, call the ATF funny names, and hold your breath. The ATF is not RSR. If a ban that doesn’t exist is being enforced by RSR, shouldn’t you be talking about boycotting RSR? It probably wouldn’t affect their bottom line, but the bad press may cause them to “modify” their position. Stop whining and do something you bunch of pro 2nd, fair weather “patriots”.
How about putting a link on this to so we can copy it and send it to our corrupt Congress?
If you will read the legislative history (Congressional Record) of the GCA of ’68, you should find that it was specifically intended that ordinary citizens be able to obtain an FFL to allow the interstate transfer of firearms to individuals who had been vetted.
You will recall that the GCA of ’68 was a response to Lee Harvey Oswald’s acquisition of a “mail order rifle”. Look at the questions on the 4473. Some, such as domestic violence misdemeanor convictions have been added since then, but they are by and larger the same as those for an FFL.
The Clinton administration reduced the number of FFL holders appreciably via zoning laws and threatening people who ultimately surrendered their FFL rather than go through the hassle of fighting preposterous allegations to defend their license.
There has been a continuing unholy alliance between larger stores and ATF to violate the rights of citizens.
So TTAG, can you provide proof of this ATF decision? I have received nothing from the ATF concerning this. I also have an RSR account that I assume, now, will be going away. However, RSR is now simply stifling small business and start ups. Here in Maryland there are only 305 “regulated” firearms dealers, roughly a third of those are B/M. Maryland is inhospitable to firearms dealers. I set up as a “home based” to get in and understand how things work and what needs to be done, before setting out for a storefront. In truth, I will move out of Maryland before moving to a B/M store. How are we to defend our Rights when companies like RST and CDNN are working against us?
I guess they should come out of the closet as Hillary supporters.
Curious where this was heard or where the information was extracted, I am a home based FFL, and I have done multiple searches and have found nothing but your article on it.
This article is mostly bs. I was contacted by RSR, they told me UPS doesn’t want to deliver firearms to homes anymore. My account would only be good for accessories. I talked with my UPS driver he wasn’t aware of any policy change at UPS. I talked with two ATF agents on separate occasions in the last week asking about home ffls. Both agents gave me the same we haven’t heard anything about that. And both those agents were processing home applications at the time. They also said the BATFE does not tell distributors who they will and will not sell to. Its just thats RSR doesn’t like us little guys anymore. If you want the truth call your local atf office. My local office is great always willing to answer questions.
I don’t know what this author is drinking, but (although, because of some unlocated court paperwork that I was able to get for the NSA and FBI) the process went very smoothly) and I was issued my license in Sept (two months ago) for my home. I have had of course problems getting priority on some guns like Ruger ar 556 (AR-15) for some Sheriff Deputies because of my starting low volume, my sales Reps have been wonderful about getting me one or two when they get their allocations, and while I have had some problems with some suppliers on quantities, I’m not really that surprised, or put off by it. I have found the ATF to be very helpful to me here in MO, and they go out of their way to answer any questions I have very promptly. I have seen these silly pay me $75 or $50 for detailed guidance on getting your license, but I can say, save your money folks. If this is what you want to do, all that information is freely available online without paying anyone to help you. The ATF isn’t the enemy here, it’s people spreading rumors and probably ones who are not FFL holders, and only keyboard Tale spinners…. (that’s a nice way of saying it!)
I recieved a call from a ATF agent who informed me that they are still issuing home based ffls.
I am a home based FFL and Class 3 dealer in Texas. My primary wholesaler is Lipseys, LM Burney and Davidsons. All are happy and eager for my business. I recently tried to set up an account with Hill Country and RSR but both turned me away for not having a bricks and “mortar store front”. Its really not a bug deal unless these guys are much less expensive than the others. Does anyone know if there is much or any price difference in Lipseys, Burney and Davidsons vs the others? If not then who cares? These three have been able go get just about anything I have needed!
DAMN THE LIBERAL AGENDA!!!!
I just received my “home based” FFL. During the interview I believe it was clear that we were in my home. The ATF agents said nothing about not allowing home FFL’s.
The part about distributors like RSR, Jerry’s, Sports South, and some other distributors refusing to sell to home based FFLs is true. The part about BATF having anything to do with that, or BATF not issuing or renewing an FFL to home based businesses is pure hogwash. They DO look carefully at zoning and local licensing, however. As long as you live in a place that local zoning allows your home business, and you meet all your state and local business regulations, BATF will issue the FFL. I just got mine.
The ATF agent who came here before mine was issued was very helpful and collaborative. It was not an “inspection” at all – he just spent 4 hours sitting at my dining room table going over all the rules and answering my questions. A couple weeks after his visit, I had my license.
Distributors like Lipsey’s, Zander’s, MGE Wholesale, Green Supply, Davidsons have all been great to work with.
How are you guys getting distributer accounts like Davidson’s that ask for store front pictures?
Reckless article that is factually inaccurate. This is out of date and should be taken down to stop propagating incorrect propaganda.
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