It’s no secret that the weapon of choice for the the Gun Control Industrial Complex is propaganda. They like to take numbers out of context, twist statistics to the breaking point and generally lie about the state of the world until they pitch enough of a hissy fit that people start paying attention to their point of view — no matter how flawed and uninformed. That’s good for us — these people typically work solely from emotion, so facts and statistics aren’t really their strong suit, and they tend to make a ton of mistakes along the way. Anyway, the Moms Demand Action crew have a webpage setup where you can select a Congressperson, choose a pre-written message (what they laughingly refer to as a “gun fact”), and then have the website auto-tweet that message on your behalf. The only problem: all of their messages carry the fragrant scent of bullshit. Allow me to elaborate, one by one . . .

First and foremost, while all of their “facts” have a link that says “source” at the end of them, those links go to a second page on their own site that just re-states the same horse hockey in a slightly different way. No third party source, no further context.. In short, totally unsupported.

Don’t dodgy facts without any legitimate source just give you the warm fuzzies? Yeah, me neither.

We here at TTAG strive to present ACTUAL facts, complete with well-researched sources and supporting documentation. You can find some of the gems on our “Gun Facts” page above. And if we ever don’t cite a source, feel free to call us out.

FACT: Concealed carry permit holders have committed at least 26 mass shootings since 2007. #MomsDemandAction

The interesting thing about this number is that MDA never actually say what their definition of a “mass shooting” is. As far as I can tell, anything with a body count of two or more qualifies in their effort to evoke the same emotional response that Newtown brought on for incidents as small as a lover’s quarrel gone wrong. Not to say that murder isn’t bad, but calling these mass shootings is disingenuous at best, an outright lie at worse. Especially when NPR, that bastion of right wing reactionary reporting, says that “mass shootings” are on the decline, even as gun sales skyrocket.

In fact, that’s the sole fact that you need to know to debunk virtually everything else coming out of Shannon Watts’ mouth. Gun sales are through the roof, yet the murder rate (including “mass shootings”) continues to decline — as evidenced by this Forbes article. That pretty much blows their whole “guns equal crime” theory out of the water. But they don’t care.

As for their number, keep in mind that there are around 15,000 murders committed with firearms every year. In the six years since 2007 only 26 of those incidents involved people with a concealed carry license (or just living in constitutional carry states). We’ve proven this time and again through actual math and statistics, but concealed carry holders are MUCH less likely to commit a murder than the average population. Which means that while the number might seem “unacceptable” in a vacuum, when you give it just a splash of context you realize that it’s virtually background noise.

Oh, and FYI, Shannon, police officers committed more murders than concealed carry holders in that time period. Just sayin’.

FACT: Concealed carry killers were involved in at least 386 fatal incidents since May 2007. #MomsDemandAction

Again, the MDA bunch are looking for the emotional reaction — they want you to see the number and be shocked, shocked! that such a thing could happen. But as I just finished pointing out in the last paragraph, concealed carry holders are more law abiding and less likely to commit murders than the police, let alone the rest of society. So unless you’re wanting to disarm the cops, that number is completely useless as an argument against concealed carry.

FACT: 6.6 million guns are sold EVERY YEAR in the U.S. without background checks. #MomsDemandAction for #GunSense

I’d love to see how they made up arrived at that number, since private party gun sales are (by definition) conducted outside the purview of gun stores and therefore unrecorded. But that brings us back to the minor issue of Moms Demand Action not citing any actual sources, and in this instance probably just parroting the Mayors Against Illegal Guns’ party line.

Let’s take their number at face value, though. Even if we accept their “fact,” and accept the premise that all of those sales will result in some form of criminal action, what do they demand we do about it? Do they have any suggestions as to ways to get criminals to use gun dealers for their illegal firearms transactions? Of course not, because that would require the use of logic. They just want to use the number to jar you into supporting their cause. Financially speaking, of course. Nevermind that even if the number is true, and we assume that all guns used in crimes are sold this way, there are still WAY more guns sold every year than crimes committed. Like, by several orders of magnitude. Perhaps a ratio of about 440:1.

FACT: From 2009-2013, only 23% of mass shootings took place entirely in so-called “gun-free zones.” #momsdemandaction

Again, we bump into their definition of “mass shooting.” By expanding the pool of shooting incidents, they dilute the actual facts (you know, facts, those things that lead us to actual solutions that might solve issues rather than promoting a political agenda). Newtown? Gun free zone. Washington Navy Yard? Gun free zone. Virginia Tech? Gun free zone. Aurora? Gun free zone. Heck, even the latest LAX incident was a gun free zone. But they apparently lump in every double homicide in the nation to make up their numbers and we see that things start getting murky and useless.

Also, they aren’t “so-called” gun free zones. They’re all to real. It says so right on the signs. The use of the phrase “so-called” is a dog whistle term used to try and associate the use of the phrase with “extremist” gun nuts.

FACT: 87% of child gun fatalities throughout 23 industrialized nations happen in the U.S. #MomsDemandAction #votegunsense

Well, yeah. And 100% of Disneyland-related fatalities happen at Disneyland. What would be more convincing is if they said that kids in the United States were more likely to die because of guns, but they can’t even twist their own facts far enough to make that statement. Kids here are safer, on average, than almost anywhere else in the world. Guns included.

For reference, the United States ranks 87th overall for death rate internationally, including murder and other causes.

Oh, and the accidental death rate for kids is FALLING in the United States despite the increased sales of firearms. If the MDA opinion were to be true (that guns cause accidental deaths), then that number would need to at least remain the same if not increase.

FACT: There are 59,000 licensed gun dealers in the U.S., almost 5x the number of McDonalds franchises. #votegunsense

And their point is…what? Oh, right. Guns are inherently evil and gun owners are despicable people. So it makes sense that anything related to guns or gun owners is, by extension, evil. It’s just “common sense” that more is worse. They don’t stop to think that perhaps there are more gun stores because guns are more popular than hamburgers, and their opinion about them is diametrically opposed to what most Americans want. But that doesn’t even register with them because of their hatred for guns and gun owners.

FACT: Gun-related deaths are projected to surpass automobile related deaths in 2015. #MomsDemandAction for #GunSense

My bank account is also projected to surpass $1,000,000 in 2015. But projections don’t always come true, and I’m really really bad when it comes to budgets. Keep in mind that these gals are also counting suicides in their analysis of “gun deaths,” which as we all know thanks to Bruce Krafft is independent of the availability of guns. Japan — I rest my case.

Nevertheless, these gals want to count not only suicides but also self defense deaths as “gun violence” deaths, meaning that even the Tsarnayev brother (who bombed the Boston marathon) is listed on their roster of tragic and avoidable gun violence victims.

FACT: Every 30 minutes a child or teen is injured or killed by gun violence. #MomsDemandAction for #GunSense

Again, this is more about shock value than actual facts. The issue with this statistic is that the Moms Demand Action crowd want you to believe that small children (like, 12 years old) are the ones being senselessly killed by gun-wielding wackos, but the reality is that about 77% of this is gang member on gang member violence between the ages of 16 and 24. Yeah, the latest reports that MDA has latched onto include people up to the age of 24 as “children.” personally, I put my cut-off for the age I will call someone a child at the age when they are able to drive a car, but that’s just my common sense kicking in.

FACT: More than half of youth that commit suicide got the gun from their own home. #MomsDemandAction

Another attempt to make you think that little 12 year olds are finding daddy’s AK-47 and offing themselves. But here’s something interesting I’m starting to notice. They never tell you the raw number when they talk about rates, and they never tell you the rate when they talk about raw numbers. Statistics is all about context, and Moms Demand Action is doing everything in their power to remove all traces of context from their “facts.”

FACT: America has 9X the accidental firearm deaths of other countries. #MomsDemandAction for #GunSense

Like with the “fact” about deaths among children compared to the rest of the world (where guns are heavily restricted), the interesting finding would be that American children have a higher fatality rate than other “developed” countries. But they don’t. Even with guns thrown in the mix, kids in the United States are less likely to die before the end of their childhood than anywhere else. Then again, Moms Demand Action keep pushing the end of childhood back so far that we might be calling 40 year olds “children” soon.

FACT: A gun in the home makes it 3X more likely you or someone you love will be murdered. #MomsDemandAction for #GunSense

First, the whole idea that a gun makes you more likely to be murdered has been thoroughly debunked by Mr. Lott and others. But as usual, these people don’t care about actual statistics — they just want to shock you on an emotional level into running with their herd. But it is interesting how they don’t consider the circumstances before they come to a conclusion. Perhaps it’s that people who are more likely to be murdered buy guns to try to arm themselves against their attacker? Nope, doesn’t fit the agenda, gotta throw that idea out.

FACT: Background checks already stop 211 felons per day from buying guns. #MomsDemand background checks for ALL gun sales

Interesting fact: this number is based on the observations of a SINGLE DAY of NICS checks. In order to be at least somewhat legitimate, I’d expect MDA to use a number that was based on two or three days of data and not just a single data point. But they didn’t. That’s like only ever watching a movie featuring Pamela Anderson and saying the average bust size of the American female is 32DD.

Even so: And? As I said before, they don’t really have an answer for the question of what to do about those pesky gun sales that don’t go through a gun dealer, other than making it extremely easy to turn gun owners into felons. Besides that, I think this tweet is more about how few people who buy guns are classified as felons. They believe that all gun owners are evil, and therefore they don’t believe we can pass a background check. So the hundreds of thousands of NICS checks that pass successfully are, in their minds, simply not thorough enough to pick up on the fact that we are all criminal scum.

FACT: More children die from gun deaths every year than die from cancer. #MomsDemandAction for our kids’ safety.

More kids die from car accidents than from cancer too, but you don’t see Shannon Watts going around stumping for sports car control. Nope, to these people the manner of death is more important than the death itself. The fact that a gun was used means more than the raw numbers. They don’t actually care about saving kids’ lives, they just care about confiscating guns.

Oh, and also, I like how they’ve stopped even trying to define “child” in this context. I wonder how high they had to go (30?) before they could scrape together that number? Oh well, we’ll never know because — again — no sources.

FACT: #StandYourGround laws increase murder rates up to 9% #MomsDemandAction on bad laws.

This is another attempt for the gun control advocates to label “stand your ground” laws as something completely new in the world, when in reality the laws were introduced to combat the insanity that was the “duty to retreat” craze of the last couple decades. Never mind that George Zimmerman never claimed that he was standing his ground in court, they still blame the law for the reason that he wasn’t lynched for killing an “innocent” Martin.

FACT: Guns were used in 68% of homicides in the U.S. in 2010. #MomsDemandAction

Gang violence is a terrible thing, but the fact of the matter is that it’s the driving reason behind the murder rate in the United States. I’m trying to get some funding to identify exactly what percentage of the murders in the United States are gang related, but some estimates put it as high as 77%. Gang members prefer to use guns. QED high percentage of murders using guns. It’s a simple logic exercise, but the Moms Demand Action group doesn’t seem real keen on logic.

So, as you see, the issue isn’t the prevalence of guns. The issue is gang violence. But the Moms Demand Action crew would rather focus on disarming the victims than confronting the real driving factor behind crime, because that would just make too much sense.

FACT: 26 states have versions of #StandYourGround laws that endanger our kids. #MomsDemandAction on bad laws.

“Stand your ground” is an attempt to fix the Democrat’s “duty to retreat” laws that imprisoned people to defending themselves from murderers and rapists. The fact that so many states have them might be an indication that they’re popular. And there’s no evidence to support the idea that the laws are endangering anyone, except criminals. Which, of course, Moms Demand Action does indeed use criminals as “innocent victims” to bolster their numbers and increase the appeal of their group, so it makes logical sense to them,. In a sick, twisted kind of way.

FACT: #StandYourGround laws have resulted in 700 more gun deaths a year. #MomsDemandAction on bad laws.

Notice how they never state whether these “gun deaths” were actual innocent victims or murderers and rapists? Yeah, me too. Seems almost like they’re trying to be misleading on purpose, but that would require them to have enough intelligence to find the correct answer and then purposely distort it for their own use. Which might be giving them too much credit. These are the same folks that would rather die at the hands of a murderer than use a gun to defend themselves, so we know that their psychology is all about preventing gun use and not preventing deaths — they wouldn’t care if these were knife deaths, just that there was a gun used.

And that’s it. That’s all of the “facts” that they can muster. Seems a little… light? Lacking substance? Probably because it’s all a crock. . . .

RELATED ARTICLESMORE FROM AUTHOR

131 COMMENTS

  1. I like that she puts ‘gun free zones’ in quotation marks… could it be that they realize criminals don’t care about whether something is a gun-free zone? Can we get rid of them, now?

  2. I say we create a list of pithy counterstatements to each of their “Facts” and use the hashtag: #MDAlies

  4. I got blocked from Shannon’s Twitter recently after disproving their “30,000” gun murders statement with actual FBI stats…FYI, according to the FBI there were less than 9k murders committed w firearms in 2012

  5. Nick, you’re just preaching to the choir. We need rebuttals like yours out in the mainstream media or at least in public to counter the anti’s “facts”.

    • Every church “preaches to the choir”. I think that’s why the choir and the congregation shows up every week. The point is to give them/us the gospel in order to bolster our belief and give us the “truth” to proselytize outside the confines of the church itself.

      The last thing we want is to engage some fence-sitter with crap arguments and have them catch us at it. Credibility is key.

  6. Wow…just wow. These girls just made concealed carry sound so much cooler than every gun bigger combined. Concealed carry KILLA, bitches! We have more street cred on accident than Jay Z could manufacture on purpose!

    • Exactly. How many of their Twitter followers are actual gun-control activists and how many are people on our side, waiting to pounce on every utterance? Without our attention and validation, their funding would dry up and they’d go away. Astroturf groups like MDA are a distraction tactic from the real fight.

      DON’T FEED THE TROLLS.

    • Seriously.

      Though I am torn. I think we need to keep abreast of the anti-gun crowd so we don’t get complacent, but at the same time No one I know, who doesn’t read this blog, has ever heard of MDA or Shannon Watts.

      So do we keep feeding the troll so we can continue to fight it, or do we ignore it and risk it growing out of control?

      • Exposing the false and misleading MDA rhetoric on this pro gun forum IS fighting it by keeping interested parties informed as to the disingenuous MDA tactics. It also confirms the Bloomberg MAIG Brady connection by the obvious guidance they enjoy and follow.

        No truer a group of marionettes is there to be found.

        And Watts’ pig snout does appear to have grown.

        • You know, I still think she’s just cute as a button that Shannon Watts. I can just see her having what would be a most amusing meltdown some time, hopefully on live TV when she runs out of “facts”.

      • I had not heard of them, until last night when a friend on Facebook shared their emotionally charged tragedy sales pitch, using the Washington shooting as a platform. When I pointed out to them that it was illegal for the young man to carry the firearm, Washington does not issue permits to anyone under 21, and it was illegal for him to carry on school grounds and the background check agenda would not have changed anything, I got blocked.

    • The problem is that these leftist groups always start small, they stay small BUT accomplish things because they are allowed to spew their lies without anyone countering them “because they are small, who ever heard of them?”

      We can not allow these statists free reign without countering their lies any more. They are too powerful because of their backers. They seem powerful and get attention while bigger groups on the other side are minimized and ignored. Blogs have become important and twitting corrections of their numbers and posting corrections on blogs that don’t block (most anti gun blogs will block you if you disagree) might actually really help keeping them marginalized.

    • I am not the first to say this, but, “Know your enemy.” Any exposure (sorry, Dirk, didn’t mean to get you going) MDA gets here means nothing as they will not find any converts here. As pathetic as MDA is they are still a good sample of ALL the anti-2A groups that exist and can be studied for information on that species and how to protect oneself from their attacks.

  8. FACT: A gun in the home makes it 3X more likely you or someone you love will be murdered. #MomsDemandAction for #GunSense

    Because this includes violent criminals, crack dealers, gangbangers etc. who happen to have guns in their house but are predisposed to dying by a gun due to the nature of their activities. What percentage of gangbangers who have been killed by cops, other gangbangers, citizens defending their own lives, disenchanted girlfriends, or their own carelessness happen to have a gun in their house? All of them? It inflates the 3X figure.
    Fun Gun Facts are even more fun to dissect than they are to invent.
    Somehow, I don’t belive having guns in my house makes me more likely to be murdered.

    • Accidental suicide, maybe….

      But that’s the same as saying having a circular saw in my garage makes me more likely to cut my leg off.

      Which I’ve come far closer to doing than a ND 🙁

      • Can’t forget the handy chainsaw… responsible for amputating limbs of careless individuals. Also the weapon of choice for Leatherface to kill and butcher human flesh for consumption.

  9. Ok. So we all know, as the author well demonstrated, that these little goat nuggets of info from MDA are misleading and false, and why they are misleading and false.

    BUT… The goal of MDA is to use these little <140 character tweets and sound-bites to make a repetitive drumbeat until the politicians and readers can start repeating them off the top of their head because, well, they've seen it so many time before it MUST be true.

    Something to consider. Their message may not be true, but they do have lots of people who make a good living at communicating their message.

  10. Checked the facts on suicide. The World Health Organization ranks the US 33rd in suicide rates. All of the nations listed with higher suicide rates than the US have restrictive firearm ownership laws

  11. FACT: From 2009-2013, only 23% of mass shootings took place entirely in so-called “gun-free zones.” #momsdemandaction

    Note also the use of “entirely”. Because of that, the Newtown school murders would not count as a “mass shooting”, since the murderer had killed his mother off-campus.

    • Slight correction, CBI. The Newtown massacre still counts as a “mass shooting” for two reasons: 1) logically a “mass shooting” has to be classified by the INTENT of the shooter, AND the results, not just by the number of people shot., and 2) The fact that Lanza’a mother was shot at home eliminates the “gun-free zone” criteria, NOT the “mass shooting” label.

      Let me clarify just a little, because the definition of “mass shooting” is just IMHO: If a person INTENDS to simply shoot as many people as possible before being stopped, and that is the reason for the assault, THAT is a “mass shooting”. If a person has one or two specific, intended targets but shoots one or more other victims in the course of arrest or attempted escape, this does not, IMO, qualify as a “mass shooting”, since the numbers were not the intention of the perp, just an unfortunate side effect.

      • You are correct, and I was unclear. What I should have said was:

        Note also the use of “entirely”. Because of that, the Newtown school murders would not be included in her 23% statistic of “mass shootings” taking place entirely in a “gun-free zone”.

  12. FACT: 37.33 +/- 6.13% of children who receive Heirloom Guns as a gift from their father grow up to be criminally insane and put their #MomsDemandAction in a nursing home. Maybe just on the street.

  13. Nice job, Nick, but we need to hear from Dirk Diggler on the important issues of Shannon T watts’ personal grooming and choices of apparel.

  15. “6.6 million guns are sold EVERY YEAR in the U.S. without background checks. ” source and debunk can be found here:

    http://www.factcheck.org/2013/03/guns-acquired-without-background-checks/

    “Background checks already stop 211 felons per day from buying guns.”

    No, they stopped an average of 211 people from buying a gun on that particular day. Some percent later appealed and won their case based on faulty NICS data (and were not felons). Any actual felons that were stopped from buying a gun at that particular time and place just got one elsewhere. Probably for less money.

    • What would be interesting is how many felons currently have guns, hunt, and target shoot but have committed no crimes since their first felony? Someone I know has acquaintances and family members who are felons who grab a shotgun and go hunting every year but haven’t been in trouble in a long time. Yes, they are breaking the law, but the only thing they are killing is birds.

    • “Any actual felons that were stopped from buying a gun at that particular time and place just got one elsewhere.”

      Seems like if you are/were a felon you would probably remember that and not attempt to lie about it when filling out your form. Interesting that so many (theoretically) try to go the gun shop route anyway. The statistic you will never see is how many actual convicted felons fill out the form, lie about their status, and the NICS check does NOT flag them? This is a government system after all and we all know exactly how efficient the government is at anything.

      • Many people who are rejected from background checks don’t know that they are restricted from owning. Other times, there are legitimate people that are denied due to a mixup (same name, error in the database, etc.). Then there are people who are just stupid or otherwise “take a chance” at not being flagged.

  16. Just another one of our “betters” that knows what’s best for us all in the new utopia. Aside from the outright lies concerning 2A I’m sure this sock monkey was singing the hymn of Obamacare. I can’t wait for MDA and their brethren’s desperate bid for control to fail as miserably as this administration has at life.

  18. FACT: A gun in the home makes it 3X more likely you or someone you love will be murdered.

    In exactly the same sense that getting a restraining order against an abusive partner makes you several times more likely to be murdered.

    • This one is also so open that it would include your parents, siblings, grandparents, etc. who don’t have a gun in their home but were murdered. I’m pretty sure most people who are murdered have someone who loves them that does own a gun…..they just weren’t there to protect their loved one……and so the number should actually be at or near 100% but still have no meaning.

      • By the same logic, from a sample size of one (me) I can definitely say that possession of car insurance causes car crashes. The only time I’ve ever crashed a car, I had insurance. I normally do my best to avoid insurance – insurance is really nothing more than a bizarre form of gambling – you’re betting the company that you’ll use the benefits before you pay the full cost of whatever it is you’re insured against. In other words, the only way to win is to lose.

  19. Kent Brockman: Professor, without knowing precisely what the danger is, would you say it’s time for our viewers to crack each other’s heads open and feast on the goo inside?

    Professor: Yes I would, Kent.

  20. Watt’s doesn’t look anywhere as hot as Team Glock’s Michelle Viscusi yet (if we have to see Watt’s pic) thankfully Watts looks better than Diane Feinstein.

    • I don’t think so. That looks like a rather generic piece of code that a developer has made available to the public for free.

      • Since the whole bloody page is a gigantic JS script, anyone care to modify it? I doubt they’d notice.

  24. Fact: her face on TTAG makes it 3x more likely you will puke today.

    Her voice on TTAG will lead to a ringing sound about as pleasant as the one after firing a ported .357 with no earplugs.

    • Been there, done that (the .357 thing, that is), still got the tinnitus. This is why I NEVER click on the “Play” button on these videos. That and I really don’t give a shit about hearing what she has to say. I’ll stick with the Cliff Notes versions (pun intended) provided by Nick and in the comments.

  25. Thanks Njck. Debating emotion with facts is a waste of breath with the PTA mommmies on Facebook and Twitter. Both are propaganda platforms controlled by the authors. If you are serios about finding funding go to the board members at NRA SAF GOA and propose an independent site that can gather the objective data from the existing surveys and databases like Fbi and Harvard. You will need a respected statistician to do what Lott and others have done. And keep it housed separate from TTAG so the otherside cant smear you eith asscuation. Look at Pew.

    • I’m pretty sure Nick has some pretty significant bona fides as a professional statistician. It’s unfortunate that in the eyes of the anti-2A crowd this makes him an unreliable source, since he likes guns (a lot).

  26. Ever since the five gun grabbing groups were brought under an organizing umbrella by the White House, via the Office of Public Engagement, out-sourced to Bob Creamer but supervised by Valerie Jarrett, it is clear that we should call MDA “Obama’s Favorite Mother Demands Action.” And who is surprised at her proclivities?

  27. Given that this is taking place entirely on twitter with hashtags, I’d be interested in if there’s a way to track how many people actually use their tweet-your-critter service.

    It’d be another metric for judging their support.

  28. >> Even with guns thrown in the mix, kids in the United States are less likely to die before the end of their childhood than anywhere else.

    Where did you get the numbers to back this? I’m trying to find some stats, but all I see is mortality rates for children under 5 years (http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.DYN.MORT?order=wbapi_data_value_2012+wbapi_data_value+wbapi_data_value-last&sort=asc), which show US below most European countries, and even Cuba. But in this particular context, mortality rates for under 16 would be more interesting – but I can’t find anything like that.

    • The US counts infant mortality rates as born alive and died before a given date. In many European countries the time before a live birth is counted is between 48 and 72 hours. Premature births have high death rates in the first 48-72 hours and hire death rates until the age of 10. The US leads the world in premature infant care so you have to effects. Quick deaths among babies, particularly preemies, don’t get counted in Europe but they do here and since we save more preemies who then have higher death rates in the first ten years of life. We could match European rates with the stroke of a pen.

      • I’m not trying to dispute anything here, merely asking for the source of numbers that backs this particular claim in the post. Note also that we’re talking about child mortality here, not infant mortality, though obviously the latter is a subset of the former.

        Also, apparently for stat purposes, “child mortality” is generally defined as under 5, but I call BS on that in general – 10yro is still a kid. But I can’t find any stats for anything other than infants and under 5.

  30. The number of Britons killed each year, before and after the Firearms Act of 1997 banned handguns, has remained substantially the same while violent crime has skyrocketed. #Whoops #RealGunSense #GunControlFails

  32. “FACT: There are 59,000 licensed gun dealers in the U.S., almost 5x the number of McDonalds franchises. #votegunsense”

    McDonald’s has over 34,000 restaurants worldwide, with over 18,000 in the U.S. as of 2011.

    Not that it’s the least bit relevant…

    FACT: More people have posted comments to this one post than there are active members in Moms Demand Action. #DontFeedTheTroll

    • Fact: Most of those are not store-front businesses able to process requests on a regular basis, but individuals not necessarily open for public business.
      (i.e. I have a FFL03 for C&R. Is that included in the numbers? Cause I couldn’t run a background check for anyone, nor buy/sell/middleman for anyone else but myself)

    • Wouldn’t it also be more accurate to not just limit it to McDonald’s, but to include Booger King, Carl’s Jr., Jack in the Box, Wendy’s, and any other national chain fast food burger outlet?

  33. “FACT: 6.6 million guns are sold EVERY YEAR in the U.S. without background checks.”

    Assuming we use their made up number 6.6 million guns sold without background checks and the rough estimates of 15,000 gun deaths per year, their own statistics show that the issue is not with background checks. 15k is a tiny percentage of the 6.6 mil, obviously they are confused with their own statistical correlations. And this doens’t include the guns purchased through a legal process from an FFL Dealer.

  34. I read recently something in the news about an M.D.A. meeting….. only four people showed up. One of whom was presumably the organizer…..

    I think this group has been sucking on the Bloomberg Money-Teat so long that their brains have gone soft. Their little brains can’t seem to grasp even the simplest of concepts like 4 people doesn’t make a large group and adding a percentage symbol to a random number does not magically turn it into a fact.

    • “I think this group has been sucking on the Bloomberg Money-Teat so long that their brains have gone soft.”

      As MR. Bloomberg is (nominally) a man, I don’t think his teat is where you need to suck to get his money.

  35. FACT: typing the word fact before anything written on the internet automatically makes it like, totally true.
    -Abraham Lincoln
    #pigsflying#unicornsarereal#saintfienstein

  36. Responding to their bullcr@p point by point really does validate them. It’s what they WANT.

    The girls against guns really want to amass public opinion to their side. They don’t CARE how they do it. They don’t CARE that the facts are false.

    While I agree that someone needs to debunk their junk, it’s more important to devise a strategy to fight their fire with our own fire. Not meet them on their battlefield but create our own battlefield and lure them onto it. Continuously meeting them at their battlefield, playing their games by their rules will always result in their winning. So sorry but that is the truth.

    The only way to win is to change the game.

    There are tactics out there that will help a lot. Starting with

    1. Understanding that these are women we are dealing with. Irrational, illogical beings who really believe in their hearts everything they are doing and saying. Because they think with their FEELINGS. They FEEL that less guns = less crime therefore it is the universal truth.

    2. Most of the pro2A supporters are men. Real men. Manly men who don’t generally let women call the shots and walk roughshod all over them. Think to yourselves! Just think. What kind of man has a wife like this? What is he like? Can you imagine to yourself what is missing in this woman’s home that allows her / encourages her to act out against us in this manner? I encourage you to think to your most base level what it is that goes on in her household … or more importantly, what does NOT go on in her household.

    Now think would you as a man allow your wife to go out in public and spew this kind of nonsense? How does that reflect on you? What do you DO about it?

    The bottom line is this: Women are like children. They are ID. They are all about “me, me, me, me”. It is up to the MEN to lead them and show them the way. If they aren’t getting leadership at home then they are waiting and HUNGRY for it from somewhere else. No woman anywhere does not want to be guided and shown the way by a dominant man. If she is not getting it at home, she will rise to the leadership position to fill the void. But she doesn’t like it. She will always acquiesce to a dominant male direction.

    3. Most importantly, I keep mentioned it you need to be reading the Anonymous Conservative to understand how the Liberal mind works. This woman is not just a woman, she is a product of a Liberal household and all that entails. They have a very specific lack of brain development in their flight/fight center which causes them to reject out of hand any data that does not coorelate with their internalized, emotive beliefs. And they want more than anything to use their soapbox to get support for their side regardless of truth, honor or anything else. Because that assuages their beliefs and makes them feel good. Feeling good is the most important thing, mind hurt and feel bad are to be avoided at all costs.

    These are things I see elsewhere that I don’t see discussed here. There needs to more understanding of the male/female relationship and role as well as more knowledge about Liberal thinking. A lot more … In my opinion.

    • “Gun Control Is Man Control
      Found this older (mid-1990s) study linking gun control and other left-lib hobby horses to antipathy for masculinity and traditional male gender roles. ”
      …
      “Overall, the men who favor gun control are those who reject traditional male roles and behavior. They are opposed to hunting, are pro homosexual, do not have any experience with or knowledge of guns and tend to have “politically correct” attitudes. Overall, the women who support gun control do so in the context of controlling male violence and sexuality. While this study has not explained all of the motivations for gun control (there is considerable unexplained variance in the regression equations) it does support the contention that gun control is, symbolically, male control.”
      http://elusivewapiti.blogspot.com/2013/03/gun-control-is-man-control.html

      If you are not famililar with the androsphere, you should be.

    • Except there aren’t a lot of women. It’s mostly just Shannon. And, she isn’t in it because she’s afraid of guns or bearded white guys. She’s running the thing to gain money and political favor, hoping she can get back into the big time as PR lead for a major candidate, and perhaps as a candidate herself.

      I would guess she’s earning lots of brownie points as ‘Obama’s Favorite Mom Demands Action.’ She isn’t and never has been a sissy girl. She’s a hard byatch who can play the “dirty little campaign lies” game with the best of them. Oh, and she’s a home-wrecker. And her money’s more from the Joyce Foundation than from Bloom. Her pals are Chicago/Indianapolis/St.Louis, not NYC.

      • Her supporters and her masses are though. Those are the people she’s appealing to. Those the people she is trotting through Congress at her sit downs with the government. Those are the people the government manginas (liberals) are listening to.

        Think bigger, man. You can get there.

        • I’ll assume you are serious. However, the liberals in Congress and gathered at leadershp political meetings know who Shannon is and how she got the job. None of them are in any way fooled by the trotting out of miscellaneous ‘moms.’ Her job is to generate sound bites. These are used by media favorable to the White House anti-gun initiatives. The activities of the anti-gun PR outfits (MAIG, CSGV, MDA, etc.) are gathered together under a White House sponsored weekly roundtable. The head of that, Bob Creamer, together with Valerie Jarrett, also meet with funders/supporters of the White House who happen to control media properties. It’s a simple two-pronged approach to generating sound bites and getting the results placed in both large and small media outlets. This is the game, not “how many people really support MDA.” It could be fifty people, and MDA would fulfill its roll….once its sound bites are carried over to media supporters.

          Other views on Shannon and MDA are a joke, bush league, uninformed about how politics and media work to push the agendas of either major party.

        • I understand and that’s great. it’s good to know where they get their walking papers.

          Her appeal to the masses of mommies is exactly what I stated though. To discount it is to ignore an awesome opportunity to really do something with it.

    • The Newtown Shooting and Why We Must Redefine Masculinity
      http://www.missrepresentation.org/media/the-newtown-shooting-and-redefining-masculinity/

      Masculinity, mental illness and guns: A lethal equation?
      http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/19/living/men-guns-violence/

      White Masculinity’s Ties To Rape and Gun Culture
      Read more: http://www.care2.com/causes/white-masculinitys-ties-to-rape-and-gun-culture.html#ixzz2kes7oMIj

      “We’re still collecting all the pieces from the massacre in Newtown, but one thing we do know, is there’s a clear link between this country’s gun culture and rape culture and that link is white male masculinity with something to prove.”

      School Shootings The Result Of Crisis Of Masculinity, Gun Culture, Professor Argues (article from 2008)
      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080217133643.htm
      “The school shooters and domestic terrorists examined in this book all exhibit male rage, attempt to resolve a crisis of masculinity through violent behavior, demonstrate a fetish for guns or weapons, and represent, in general, a situation of guys and guns amok,” Kellner says.”

      These are the sorts of things going through the minds of the girls against guns. Man = Bad. This is why the Misogyny labeling will be used. The bully labeling. It’s their script. To remove the man from the men and get them to act more like women.

      Of course that’s just what they say and want to believe: they want to believe that their beta male provider (wallet) at home who doesn’t act “too manly” or “ask for permission for sex very often” is just fine. Stamping out the guns is one way to remove the man from the men.

      Secretly of course, they want the guidance of a man. The alpha male who will lead them and show them they way, and who doesn’t ask for permission for sex but takes her when he likes (you think the viral nature of “50 shades of a gray” in today’s beta-male society is an accident???)

      Taking your guns are their way of stamping the man out of you. Just like they have already done to their own men at home.

      They aren’t afraid of you. They despise you, consiously. And the more you validate them and cow-tow to them, the more beta you act they despise you subconciously too. Laugh at them, feel sorry for them, treat them like the little girls they are and secretly they love you. The less beta you act, the less you pander to them, the more arrows you remove from their quiver.

      I know that a lot of this seems to make no sense. I also know that you want to believe ms Shannon is a real person that should be reachable by rationale and logic. I am just saying if you keep approaching her that way she will keep on winning. All day long.

      • Shannon’s bosses have all been men. Those she admires are mostly men. The whole ‘turn boys into girls’ thing worked until it didn’t, worked until feminism won, laugh, and SEALs became objects of hero worship.

        Shannon’s about PR. She is just one spoke in the hub of a fairly sophisticated White House-centered donor-paid PR machine. Shannon isn’t to be taken seriously except as an experienced PR tool. It isn’t about alpha versus beta males. It’s about social democrats versus republicans/libertarians. We’d do better to take a person’s current role and place in the organization more seriously, and spend less time on their gender-specific bits and day-to-day appearances.

        Shannon never talks about the large fraction of gun crime committed by urban black and hispanic gang members. That’s because she’s not about truth, or gender, or crime. She’s about helping to sway a few more voters into the Dem column. She couldn’t care less about guns. She shows no evidence in her actual life of being anti-men, but rather shows incredible efforts trying to please men. The question is only “which men?”

        • ” It isn’t about alpha versus beta males. It’s about social democrats versus republicans/libertarians. ”

          These are not different things.

          Beta males/women = Liberals socialists democrats
          Alpha males = Republicans Libertarians and some enlightened women
          * but women who bat for this team have strong men at home, so take that for what you will

          If you don’t think that gender roles and the socialists’ embrace of feminism have anything to do with gun control you are sorely mistaken.

  37. There needs to be a nice infographic style website with all the pertinent gun facts that is regularly updated from credible sources (ie. FBI stats) with info that we can point all the layman to when morons like the MDA and the media open their collective mouths.

    Then just add facts to it as new scenarios arise.

  38. FACT: Registered Democrats are responsible for more mass shootings than conservative gun owners.

    FACT: Dianne Feinstein eats more children than Mr. Snuffleupagus.

    FACT: Everyone poops.

  39. “the reality is that about 80% of this is gang member on gang member violence between the ages of 16 and 24”

    “Gang violence is a terrible thing, but the fact of the matter is that it’s the driving reason behind the murder rate in the United States. I’m trying to get some funding to identify exactly what percentage of the murders in the United States are gang related, but some estimates put it as high as 80%.”

    Could you provide any resources on the rates of gang related violent crime/murders? It’s been something I’ve been looking for to look into the root causes of the violent crime/murder rate that the US has. My hypothesis is that if you were to remove all gang and drug related murders from the calculation, the murder rate would drop to or below the various European countries that people love to compare the US to. Unfortunately, I don’t have any numbers to back up this claim.

    • If you use the African-American homicide rate as proxy for gang violence then number is about 2.34 per 100k from criminal acts other than gang violence.. That is still higher than most European countries but not greatly so. Recently someone posted a link to a study of actually UK homicides base on US rather than UK law and the number was around 2.0.

      • Using african-american murders as a proxy for gang murders is 1) incomplete as there are many AA murders that aren’t gang related and many non-AA murders that are. It’s statistically incomplete if not untenable. 2) if I were to use AA murders as a proxy for gang murders, it would only serve to fuel the anti’s belief that gun owners are racist: “OMG, they think that all gang members are african american!”

      • I said use it as proxy since 12% of the population commits 50% of the murders. All a proxy is a rough estimate for data point we don’t have.

        I am will aware that there are Hispanic and even white gangs but they have lower murder rates. Here in NOVA we are a haven for MS-13 and we don’t have bodies all over town.

  41. “More kids die from car accidents than from cancer too, but you don’t see Shannon Watts going around stumping for sports car control.”
    Actually, there are more than a few groups that oppose everything from sports cars (want them limited in speed) to cigars, pornography, red meat, you know the drill. In my mind they form an organization I lovingly refer to as “Hysterical Harpies Against Everything Men Love.”

  43. Ultimately everything this idiot says, doesn’t matter. We aren’t giving up our right to bear arms, regardless of sanctions, legislation, or confiscation. If they make gun ownership a crime, we’ll finally be the criminals we’re portrayed as, and all you will have succeeded in doing is pissing off the only group of citizens with the means to oppose you. Molon Labe.

  44. Hmmmm… How about a mad-libs style fact?

    FACT: Shannon Watts _adverb_ _verb_ rifles and Dirk Diggler. A _noun_ is her favorite _noun_ with which she _verb_ them.

    Thoughts?

  45. FACT: Moms kill 200+ infants a year (maternal filicide – intentional killing of an infant). The U.S. has the highest rate of filicide in the world. Ban moms Now! #shannonwatts – That is wayyy more than any concealed carry killers #momsdemandaction #GunSense

  47. I think everyone should, as I just did, go to the MomsDemandAction website and use their “easy” pre-formatted letters to contact Congress with a few changes the the verbage of course stating that “I demand for you to not vote for restricting law abiding citizens rights” etc etc

  48. While I support most of your positions on this, you lack actual citations to impartial evidence. Meanwhile, you repeatedly point out that MDA lacks citations. While I may know you’re correct, others reading this with more skepticism may get the feeling this is a “he said, she said” argument. That doesn’t do much to convince those who may be on the fence.

  49. Let’s not forget the women in this the USA kill approx 1.2 million children a year. Maybe wish should out law abortion again.

  50. Forgot where I saw it but it was this was like a couple image I saw last year in New York City. One bus was driving around promoting about how many deaths per year were caused by guns. Then, another bus was driving around a promoting about how many lives per year were saved by guns. I don’t have the number specifically but the ratio of lives saved by guns was nearly 3x more than people who died from guns. My opinion, this type of crap would be like people blaming condom companies for unwanted pregnancies. Even though condoms prevent the spread of STDs and pregnancies, they are responsible for the few that malfunctioned and/or were used improperly…. LMAO

    • “like people blaming condom companies for unwanted pregnancies. Even though condoms prevent the spread of STDs and pregnancies, they are responsible for the few that malfunctioned and/or were used improperly”

      I don’t understand what you’re trying to say here. If they blamed condoms for STDs, wouldn’t they want to ban condoms?

  51. }}} FACT: There are 59,000 licensed gun dealers in the U.S., almost 5x the number of McDonalds franchises. #votegunsense

    FACT: How many BEER distributors are there? Since you need a special license to transport BEER across state lines, it’s no surprise that anyone who wants to do so has a license, even if they’re just a microbrewery doing sales at beer festivals.

    Last time I checked, you didn’t need to be a McDonalds owner in order to transport hamburgers across state lines for commercial purposes… Now I grant, this may have changed while I wasn’t paying attention, but I’ll presume otherwise until someone corrects that presumption.

    Q.E.D., this is comparing apples to oranges. You might as well compare the number of licensed skydiving instructors to the number of FFL holders. Or the number of orange farms in Florida and California to the number of FFL holders… at least then you’d have the “oranges” connection.

  52. FACT: Concealed carry killers were involved in at least 386 fatal incidents since May 2007. #MomsDemandAction

    According to an MSNBC article in 2010 6 there were approx. 6 million licensed concealed carry holders(Assuming there are more now, but I’ll use the lower number for the benefit of the doubt), and according to the bloomberg article about “American Gun Deaths to Exceed Traffic Fatalities by 2015” since 2007 there have been approx 224,000 gun related deaths. The population of the US is 313.9M. So by those statistics(Half being “Anti-Gun” statistics) Concealed carry holders are 0.0061% likely to cause a fatal gun incident while the rest of the US Pop. are 0.072% likely to cause one. “11x more likely!!!”(using the emotional enthusiasm of MDA). By these statistics and a loose interpretation of reality, if the entire United States had CCPs there would have only been 19,147 deaths over the 6 year period. We should just issue everyone in the US a CCP and gun related fatalities will drop by 91%!!!(MDA emotional emphasis added)

    • ” “American Gun Deaths to Exceed Traffic Fatalities by 2015″ ” – Bloomie

      I always want to ask those soothsayers why it is that if their crystal ball is so accurate, they haven’t won the lottery yet?

  53. I feel as though every anti gun organization’s webpages are riddled with pictures of children saying “If you don’t ban guns there is a..uh..97% chance that little…um…Oh! Johnny here will be killed by a gun. They don’t understand our side because we’re not attempting to take rights from them they find sacred. I’m also tired of seeing the term “Gun-Bully”. YOU are the ones asking for our metaphorical lunch money and we are just asking to be left alone. The people who have CCPs and carry everyday dont just go into places and kill people, if they did no one would have a CCP over 1 day. They are doing it so that they feel safe and feel like they have the ability to protect themselves and others. Why is your “feeling of safety” more important than ours? Just because you aren’t comfortable with firearms doesn’t mean I am. One of the ideas this country was built on is that no one should be able to impose their will on others by forcing them to abandon their ideals.
    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples’ liberty’s teeth.” -George Washington.
    To protect my liberties..I’ll need my “teeth”.

  54. MomsDemandAction “twitters” (what a stupid term) erroneous, misleading and unsubstantiated gun control stats to other subscribers on a daily basis. Therefore by using their own process of “truth and fact finding” I can conclude that MomsDemandAction being mothers are “female”. That their “facts” are either wrong or misleading would cause me to further conclude this shocking fact: Women, especially those with children, who use “Twitter” are liars, ignorant, unfit to raise any children, would rather see their children dead than protect them, are unfit to have any Rights as Americans due to flagrant abuse of The First Amendment (Free speech does not apply to fear-mongering and yelling false alarms which could easily lead to death or injury of others) and most are probably not even citizens of The United States of America. since they have not been arrested or tried for inhibiting other Americans pursuit of happiness. Also I could conclude that a connection with a multibillionaire yet enjoying tax free status and asking for money from others points to the likelihood that most mothers/females are soliciting sexual favors for cash (they are prostitutes) and no doubt are tax-evaders. If they are married or in a sexual relationship with anyone under 25 (the age MomsDemandAction use as a cut-off point for definition of “child”) that they are committing crimes of felonious sexual assault described in lay terms: “child molestation” and all its secondary offenses associated with this heinous and despicable act.

    Sounds fair to me.

  55. My first encounter with MDA, was last night when a friend’s status came across my news feed.
    https://m.facebook.com/MomsDemandAction/photos/a.300767940041133.70846.300719666712627/657845531000037/?type=1&source=48

    I told them using the Washington shooting… the tragedy of death… to push a background check agenda that would not have prevented the incident… It was already illegal at least on two counts… was shameful. It got me blocked. The same happened when I challenged the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence…

    That is beside the point. I am still laughing over what I found last night. According to ME A:
    “FACT: There are 59,000 licensed gun dealers in the U.S., almost 5x the number of McDonalds franchises. #votegunsense”
    It is a true example of irony, not that the deaths are humorous but the logic is in a very sad way… you know like, I am laughing to keep from crying. In digging around last night, because it struck me as of that guns are the only object that gets blamed for its user’s actions, I found that;

    According to the DVD, adult deaths due to obesity annually is around 112,000. While firearm homicides are at 16,000 a year. So, despite having far fewer distributers fast food is more likely to kill you than a gun is…

    If course, we could undergo a cranial rectum extraction and deal with the heart behind the action and numbers…

    • “According to the DVD, adult deaths due to obesity annually is around 112,000. While firearm homicides are at 16,000 a year. So, despite having far fewer distributers fast food is more likely to kill you than a gun is…”

      Blaming fast food for big fat tub-o-lardism makes PRECISELY the same amount of sense as blaming guns for murder.

  57. You know what’s great? I went to the link that was in the top of the story and saw all the facts and clicked on the source buttons and each one said error not found lol! Even their own page ratted them out!

  58. I have signed up for emails for their MDA site as well as other anti gun/mother sites.
    This is to keep an eye on the lies they tell. When they send out an email I respond and request their source they are getting their info from.. They do not respond.
    You may want to do the same.

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