By Matt in FL

Two guys tried to rob an internet cafe in Ocala, FL. A patron pulls a .380 and pops a couple shots off at them and they rethink their plans, falling over each other on the way out the door. State Attorney’s representative says, “Based on what I have seen and what I know at this time, I don’t anticipate filing any charges.” Straightforward self defense, right? Well . . .

From the action captured on the security cameras, I’m really surprised the patron won’t be charged with something. In the first camera view, he fires three times, with a possible fourth as he walks out of frame. No problem so far. In the second view, he fires twice more — his last two shots — as he walks onto the tile. The third camera angle shows the final shot from a different angle.

The part I question is the final two shots. When those last two shots were fired, the goblins are clearly attempting to get away, so at that point the threat has ceased. The third camera angle shows his final shot was taken through the open cafe door, with the goblins actually outside the cafe on the sidewalk, and clearly headed for the hills.

I don’t necessarily want the shooter to be punished, but I think he should count his lucky stars the SA isn’t pursuing charges for that last shot, and possibly the one before it.

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131 COMMENTS

  1. Meh. The bad guy still had a gun in his hand. He could have turned and fired at any time. Smart DA knew he would never get a conviction and decided against ruining a good guy’s life.

    • Goon #1 drops his weapon when he hits the floor at 0:41 (skitters out the left hand side of the frame). I can’t tell if the second guy retains his weapon or not.

      I think that’s the crux of the matter, though. If either retained their weapon, the charges would be hazy enough to be a waste of time.

      • Is it physically impossible for a criminal to have perhaps a second firearm on their person? If a person displays a wanton disregard for civility and humanity by walking into a place like this in the first place, there is no reason to assume they will suddenly be rendered benign by the mere presence of a gun that isn’t theirs. The bad guys made the choice, we should not hem and haw about the results they deserve from their choices just because the government values criminals more than working citizens.

      • Bob: I think it was a pocket holster of some kind. If you look closely, you can see him shuck it off the front of his gun as his butt leaves the chair.

  2. Yep… I saw that, too. At the beginning of the video, I said, “Hooray!” At the end, I was thinking, “YIKES!”

    • +1 ! Cracked me up to see the change in demeanor on the part of the punks – went from being bad-a** to tripping over their own feet and squirming on the floor peeing their pants when the OFWG showed they weren’t getting a free ride.

  4. You know, I wanted to say the last two shots were because the one goblin that fell (and that I assume was the one with a gun) turned around. Then I saw the sparks outside before that point.

    So, who knows? I wasn’t there, and therefore can’t judge. If there’s one thing I’ve learned watching the NFL it’s that you can have 20 different camera angles focusing on the same event and *still* have a bitch of a time figuring out what happened.

  5. The BG was still armed and still a threat. I have no problem with it. I can see where it’s a gray area, but the DA made the right decision.

  6. quite possibly the da decided not to press yhe issue because no one got hit. when both bg’s are armed they’re not likely to get much sympathey from civilians, cops or da’s.

    • Actually, both BG’s did get hit for their troubles. Not sure where the sound is on this video (because it is available elsewhere), but at the beginning it clearly states a Patron hit them.

      • I bet the second perp with the baseball bat filled his underoo’s when the old guy with dat gat started bustin caps on him!

        LOL

        • The guy with the bat took a flesh wound to the arm, the other guy took one in the leg and one in, as Forrest would say, the buttocks. I don’t think he’ll get a medal for that one though. The second guy was pissed that the old man shot him while he was on the ground. Just read that the OFWG is 71.
          So let’s see, five or six shots, three hits, not so bad. 50% or better.

  7. ” It’s never any fun when the rabbit’s got the gun” Were the perps caught? And I think someone either need more range time or needs to sell his gun. Only criticism; You were too close to miss. Damn lucky to be alive.

    • “The suspects survived and were arrested.” So says the blurb after the title sequence.

      • Sorry, just rewatched it and your correct. 1 more point .380s aren’t much of a defense. .45 for me all the way home.

        • Not everyone can handle large-caliber recoil. Guy could have had arthritis for all we know. I agree that .380 isn’t ideal, but I would also submit that, based on the video, .380 was sufficient to get the job done.

          Priorities for armed self-defense, in order:

          —Having a gun
          —Shot Placement
          —Caliber

        • I love the mini-Jeff Coopers that come out of the woodwork after any DGU story to armchair their version of how the shit would have went down in their fantasy version of the DGU.

        • The big advantage of the .380 is that he had it on him when he needed it. That is always an improvement on the .45 you left at home or in the car because it was too heavy.

    • more range time? needs to sell his gun? Whatever…… Most police officers never fire their gun in the line of duty. Here we have a civilian standing up and doing what he thinks is best in the face of two armed assailants and he manages to hit two shots while moving?
      Give the guy a break….He did fantastic…
      Of course I’m sure you would be as calm as cool under these extraordinary circumstances too?
      Shooting to kill is NOT the range……. And you can’t say WHAT you would do or HOW you would do, until you have been there yourself now can you?

      • EXCELLENT post william!

        When you factor in all the extra baggage this guy had to deal with being old, overweight, with untold disabilities, on top of all the other things that go on inside your body in the blink of an eye during these crisis moments, I think this dude should get the “key to the city” where this happened.

        • This is what should happen more often in the U.S. I’m sorry but all the talk of whether this shot or that shot should get the citizen in this video in hot water is BS. If our God given right to keep and bear is to mean anything at all the only sane response is “Good job” and some jail time for the perps. We can all second guess and I’m sure that is fun for many of us, but when something like this happens; we need to support the fellow who has done the right thing. We must all stand up for our rights.
          “God grants liberty only to those who love it and are always ready to guard and defend it.” – Daniel Webster

        • I doubt anyone in the cafe was yelling at the Hero to stop shooting when it got to the last 2 shots….He deserves a police/city commendation.

      • William,

        You make some good points. Now… was he shoot-to-wound, or the full shoot-to-stop-threat-at-any-cost? We may never know. (and many will argue that it doesn’t matter.)

  8. King Henry VI by Billy Shakespeare

    “The first thing we do, let’s kill all the lawyers”. – (Act IV, Scene II).

    OFWG done good. Screw the last shot. How many women did he just prevent from getting raped? How many folks did he just save from being beaten to death on the street for 10 bucks? How much meth did he prevent being sold to someone about to go over the deep end? These SOBs were choir boys? Here is a 71 year old guy in what probably is his first gun battle. That is what is so freaking wrong with this country. How do you think these guys would be treated in about 90 % of the world? They were damm lucky I say. They should be counting their blessings. I can only wish that both these freak show acts dies a horrible death sooner than later. They were perfectly willing to pose a deadly threat to all those folks. But when they get their comeuppance lawyers start squealing. Jezus I want to puke.

      • Cause the meth people are breaking into our houses and cars and robbing us at gunpoint to supply their meth habit.

        • It’s their human/natural/God-given right to smoke it. Why don’t we ban other robbery motivators like high bills, chilluns to feed, alcoholism, institutional racism, depression, rising fried-chicken prices, unfairly high interest on car loans, the recession, global climate change, a gutted manufacturing industry, etc? Ban those motives too if you can. Stop trying to bully disadvantaged citizens for imbibing a chemical you don’t like. Freedom doesn’t have to be your enemy.

      • We should be able to OD on whatever we want, as long as we take responsibility for what happens while ODing. Criminals and leftists want to blame the physical thing and not the person using it.

    • Those lawyers you knock with that oft repeated line are the ones defending those involved in DGUs.

      Have some respect.

  9. Wow, I feel a little of fame today for getting something I sent in posted on TTAG. Glad I could add a little something to my favorite site.

    I’m impressed that the man stays as calm and collected as he does. Almost too calm and collected it seems. Like he’s walking his dog in the park rather than potentially killing another human being and certainly putting himself and other at risk of the same. Big props to him. He must have giant coconut balls and I salute him for it.

    If a perp is committing a violent crime such as this and doesn’t have the fear in the back of his mind that he very well might end up dead himself something has gone wrong with society. Thanks for keeping that fear alive in the hearts of criminal everywhere Grandpa Joe.

  10. Damn, just when you think you’ve found the one place with no OFWG’s! FLA is just crawling with ’em.

  11. Let’s assume the last two shots were not proper – could the defender use a “heat of the moment” defense? It’s not like he had enough time to rationally consider his actions.

    • Since both perps were tripping over each other to get away, had he shot one, would the BG have a case against the OFWG?

      • Let me preface this with the disclaimer that I am not a lawyer. If Ralph et al. say anything that contradicts this, their info is gonna be more accurate. That said,

        @rentonben: doubtful. If a DA had a mind to prosecute for neglect or excessive force, I don’t know that there’s really anything that could stop him. As for a “heat of the moment” defense, I’m pretty sure that could be spun into neglect. Remember, with our current system prosecutors don’t have to score a conviction to ruin a person’s life—the financial burden of a court case will sufficiently do that.

        @brigo: Since the BG turned around, if he had a weapon, I seriously doubt it.

        • Both BG’s WERE hit. Not sure where the sound is on this video (because it is available elsewhere), but at the beginning it clearly states a Patron hit them.

        • Two armed goblins against one old-timer? If either BG so much as looked at our hero crosseyed, then the last shot was justified. And if not, it would take a DA with a death wish to prosecute.

  12. A room full of healthy young adults, and it’s the OFWG who has to save the day. I weep for the future of this nation.

    Though, one must wonder how many proud young Progressive voters were just jarred into the right side of the spectrum thanks to that little dose of reality.

  13. After watching this AWESOME video several times you can see the OFWG was very aware and waited until the BG had his back to him as he made his move and even then the bad guy saw the OFWG and it did not register as a threat until “bang”!

    Good for the old gentleman with the courage, planning, conviction, and even at his age he took the time to make sure the old lady walking in his line of fire was SAFE as he shot around her.

    How many times have you heard people/teachers/trainers say “you keep shooting until the gun is empty” or the threat is over?

    With these 2 P.O.S. still moving like a tom & jerry cartoon, he followed his TRAINING. It was obvious to me that he was “riding that bike again”. Probably a WWII or korean vet from the look of him to me.

    A well done from me and a +1,000,000 for making sure of his targets, even if he did not hit them too many times!

    LOL

    • I agree Joe, but again this old guy was makin sure of his target and AIMING for center mass.

      This is why I love my K-frame revolver that shoots 45 long colt rounds like a 22 in kick & recoil.

  15. I do not agree with you. He was stopping the threat, chasing them out of the location and wanted to make sure they didn’t return, he kept shooting until they were gone, absolutely gone.

    Righteous shoot, in my opinion.

  16. i misread the original print at the start of the video. it says he hit them both. just re-inforces that old saying”don’t pick a fight with an old man, if he doesn’t think he can win he’ll kill you.” wonder if obama’s slo mowing the video to see if it was his son getting capped.

  17. These two idiots should try that in San Fran or Chicago, not in a state with a million carry permits. Both are out on bail so the threat still exists. I bet the goon didn’t have any bullets in his gun either.

    • The first report I saw said that the gun was neither loaded nor functional–rusted so the slide wouldn’t move.

      • As I suspected. Total pussies going in there with a bat and broken gun. They are lucky to be alive.

  18. Hey, I got published!

    Anyway, yeah, I agree with most of you, good for him. My reaction was simply like that of racer88, where I’m cheering along, but the last shot was kind of a “yikes” moment.

    For the record, the State Attorney’s rep said “we don’t anticipate charges,” but that’s based on his viewing of the security camera footage. He’s still waiting on the final report from the Marion County Sheriff’s Office, but said that the shooting appears justified.

    Tim Tritt: The story I saw was here, perhaps you saw one with a slightly different video that had sound.

  19. This was what it was like after the Martin shooting too. Then the shit stirrers stepped in and made it a racial issue. Will that happen here?

    • be careful Chuck,

      Al, jesse, and the black panthers like to troll sites like this for future work/fun.

      they are the modern day ambulance chasers.

  20. Anyone notice the lady walking through the middle of the melee? She just plugs her ears (as if the noise was her biggest issue) and slowly (and seemingly aimlessly) wanders through the middle of the “shootout.”

  21. The thing that strikes me the most about this video is how clueless everyone who isn’t actually involved in the fight is — just milling about, not trying to GTFO of Dodge or anything.

    • Jeff Cooper used to harp on the lack of situational awareness of the typical person sleep-walking through life.

      This video is yet another excellent demonstration that Cooper wasn’t just an old guy ranting at the universe. He had a point, it was valid then and it is valid now.

  22. The last two shots were to make damn sure those two asswipes didn’t have any second thoughts. Unfortunately that type of common sense is lost on the courts. If you threaten someone with deadly force like those two punks did you should do so knowing those you threaten have every right to play your own game.

  23. Chalk one for the OFWG!!!!

    He did an excellent job, Kept his cool, ran them out of the building to where they were no longer a threat, even had proper trigger finger control!!! I don’t even think he broke any glass when shooting out the door.

    • God forbid, if I’m ever in such a situation, I hope to comport myself with such calm purpose.

      This man clearly has seen the elephant before. There was no hesitation, no pondering what to do. He saw lethal danger and rushed towards it, not away from it.

      This, BTW, is what caught the two upstanding youths off-guard. Criminals seek to intimidate, and having watched quite a bit of footage like this, the one common element I see is the a) stark fear and b) lack of a “plan B” in the criminals’ actions when the victims decide that they’re not scared of the perps. It doesn’t matter what type of weapon a victim uses to fight back, the mere fact that the victim isn’t going down without a fight always causes these clowns sudden upset and completely derailment of their plans.

      • Absolutely. They were turning their lives around.

        I’m sure that many female members of their families will be quoted in the press soon, attesting to their upstanding character and morals, with appropriate histrionics, tears and anguish.

        • Yes, thanks for the link to the gainsvilleFL article!

          It gives alot of info because the perp who got shot in the ass must think he is the next “travon” Obammy’s son the way he was spoutin off to the reporter about he whole shoot and all his poor lil reasons why since the biggots that own dat budnizz fired hiz po azz that he gonna git som payback from all dose richy riches!!!

          I especially love the last line of the article (while he is going for his Academy award) and has to give his opinion that it just aint right dat he kept on shootin at me when I was down, dat was just not cool man!

          these 2 morons should be castrated before they can polute the gene pool further.

    • Dyspeptic Gunsmith,

      1. Thanks for the link to the informative article, it certainly appears that the two perpetrators were from the shallow end of the gene pool. I also think that the butt-shot one is lining up for a civil suit against the DGU citizen. I hope he is unsuccessful.

      2. What’s a 71-year old doing in an Internet Cafe, cruisin’ TTAG?

      • LeftShooter: I also think that the butt-shot one is lining up for a civil suit against the DGU citizen. I hope he is unsuccessful.

        If the prosecutor declines to file charges, he pretty much can’t sue, per Fla. Stat. § 776.032 (3)

        The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).

        • don’t worry about costs Matt.

          Im sure Jesse, Al, and Obumbles, will pay off eric holder to make sure this DGU turns into another “tray-von” circus because they was just 2 poor black youths being killed by a mean old white terrorist!

    • ‘…said the plan was to “barge in, get the money and leave.” He said “he never expected anyone to be armed.”‘

      There’s the ticket right there: criminals hit places where they expect no one to be armed. Get more people armed, get the word out that more people are carrying, and stupid robberies like this will diminish. It’s so incredibly simple.

  25. the lady with her hands over her ears,the others standing around with their thumbs up their butts. classic deer in the headlights shock from people that’ve never been in a shit storm before. i’m willing to bet the old fart is a vet. trying to pin it down to korea or vietnam is probably irrelevent. there’s no such thing as peacetime for the american military.

  26. This is the second Cybercafe heist in FL this year, that went bad for the BGs. Previous time, an armed guard, on duty, opened fire, wounding one (possibly fatally) of three.

    • He ain’t fat or old. Runnin, gunnin an gettin er done. The one person there with a purpose and he’s getting my support if any jack wagon da goes against him. I only wish for a fresh mag reload and hope he plans on the same for the future.

  28. doesn’t florida have the syg laws that protect you from civil action if the dgu is ruled to be self defense?

  29. From the article linked by Dyspeptic Gunsmith above:

    “Williams told [Detective] Dice he… was afraid the suspects were going to shoot somebody. He told the detective he was scared and that he began shooting at the men.”
    “Williams — who declined to be interviewed [for this article]…”

    Textbook after action behavior. “I was scared for my life and that of those around me, so I fired on the assailant.” And then STFU.

    • I was waiting for someone to notice this. About the only improvement he could make would be to use nice, flowery legal lingo: “I had a reasonable fear for my life and the life and safety of others at whom the assailants were pointing weapons.”

  30. Seen it on the local news here in Arkansas. Baddies were hit: One in the arm, the other in the tush. Both baddies were arrested.

    Unfortunately before that one though was a piece that the Brady cartel would pounce on: The bar incident in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. (I’ve hear the po-po has a suspect in custody now.)

  31. 1.) That was friggin AWESOME!!
    2.) WTH is going on in florida?!! Seems every story (except for tuscaloosa) is out of florida these days.
    3.) These guys come in ARMED.. with their gun ALREADY DRAWN… they have the advantage… and they run as soon as they’re popped. Like C. Walther said above.. first rule… Have a gun.

    • JACA: 2.) WTH is going on in florida?!!

      Carl Hiaasen, a Florida native journalist and novelist, maintains that there’s a special brew of heat and humidity in Florida that allows for a variety of crazy not really encountered anywhere else. I recommend his novels for a little light reading. Keep in mind that the stuff he writes is probably only 20% exaggerated from what has actually happened here, and generally not that much.

  32. First of all, way to go to the OFWG. He stopped the threat and engaged the threat until it was obvious they were not coming back. Looking at the video he must have been aiming low, I can’t believe you can miss a center mass shot at that range.
    Its one of those crazy things like the cop who was in a gunfight in a hallway with a perp 6 feet away, both emptied their guns with no hits! This is why you need CC laws and you need to put an end to the whole “force of law” no gun signs.

  33. Way to go Matt in Florida. Thanks for sending this to TTAG. I love this: an older white man saves the day at the Internet Cafe. Hooray! Hopefully, this one will get at least 1%+ of the media attention the Martin-Zimmerman shooting has to its record. Politically, I can’t see the political bozos prosecuting the shooter. The exception would be if they are both 15 year old minority thugs who got killed.

  34. It’s nice that we have internet scribe Mr Zimmerman posting things like this. Wherein thumbs are sucked and hands are wrung over the technical minutia of a citizen defending himself from two armed thugs attacking a room full of people.

    OFWG in that video was standing up and doing God’s work against two much younger, physically fit, armed goons who had the drop on everyone in that room. I am sure Mr OFWG had more than his recommended daily allowance of adrenaline and other hormones coursing through his veins. That he fought at all (given that most people are utter sheep) is truly extraordinary, and needs be commended.

    At the USMC recruit depot, one of the first events to take place is a boxing match between fresh recruits. They are very cramped, very short and the leadup is all about maximizing aggression. What the instructors are looking for is a VERY rare combination of absolute aggression along with the ability for the recruits to actually stop fighting when the instructors tell them to. Finding people who fight when you tell them to is easy. Finding people to stop fighting when you tell them to is easy. Only a very tiny percentage of Marines come to Paris Island (or San Diego) with the ability to do both.

    That a random citizen would take the one on two odds against two thugs is extraordinary. That Mr Zimmerman is now navel gazing from the comfort of his home office, writnging his hands with a boatload of armchair quarterbacking on when Mr OFWG should have backed off is highly distasteful.

    How about we let the Brady Campaign do the dramatic hysterics? Why are you questioning the actions of one of our own?

    • GA_Koenig: Hi there. Dan didn’t write it. I did. I didn’t say he did it wrong, and I’m fully aware I’m armchair quarterbacking. However, that’s precisely what an unfriendly prosecutor would do, which is why I said I believe he’s lucky.

      You’re entitled to your opinion that I’m wrong. I’m entitled to my opinion that you’re a jerk, because you couldn’t simply argue your point, but had to resort to thumb-sucking, hand-wringing, navel-gazing ad hominem attacks on me simply because we disagree. Have a great day.

      • If it isn’t navel gazing/hand wringing/thumb sucking… what exactly is it than?

        You are not just questioning the actions of the man, but questioning what might be a slight overreaction during the tail end stages of a violent life and death encounter. Furthermore, you are hiding behind this assertion that your line of thinking is “precisely” how an “unfriendly” prosecutor would act.

        Are you a prosecutor? By what experience can YOU firmly prove that that is what an “unfriendly” prosecutor would do?

        I’ll carve out a big exception to what I am about to say by noting that the Zimmerman case has gone totally off the rails and into a race baiting political football with little bearing on the actual presence of a criminal act. In every publicized self-defense shooting I’ve seen over the last 10 years though, no matter the jurisdiction, no matter the questionability of the act, no matter the gross negligence on the part of a good citizen attempting to defend himself, nobody has been railroaded from self-defense into criminal prosecution.

        Not even the NYC store owner using illegal/unregistered weapons to shoot a bad guy. Not even the Iraq vet here in Portland who shot an unarmed man as soon as he stepped out of his car after a 1 mile road rage chase incident. Jesus, they didn’t even prosecute Mr Horn in Texas after he chased after the (unarmed) guys who robbed his neighbor’s house and shot them, even though 911 dispatch told him not to.

        Those of us who believe in the basic human right of self-defense have a tough enough time as it is, and we have worked hard over the years to normalize firearms and get the law on our side. We’ve even made inroads with a hysterical media looking to sensationalize everything they can for their own selfish interests. The tide has turned and now, even in the most liberal enclaves (like here in Portland), good citizens who defend themselves have gotten a sort of de facto benefit of doubt (even if not expressly provided by legislation). There is not a prosecutor in the country who is willing to railroad a solid citizen into a murder charge over a fight they didn’t start.

        We don’t need you undoing that by espousing your opinion as if questioning the actions at the end of this citizen’s life or death fight is some oracle level insight into the world of criminal liability.

        • We don’t need you undoing that…

          I have read and thoughtfully considered what you said. I see where you’re coming from, until you get to this last paragraph. I’m as entitled to my opinion as anyone else, and if you think otherwise, you can find the nearest cliff and see how fast you can find the bottom.

        • First off, I know you think you are super clever by whipping out the old ad hominem attack whine at me, but I never made one.

          I said your opinion was based on navel gazing/hand wringing/MMQBing. Now, unless you are personally involved in the issue, bring some special knowledge to the matter or have a profession that could offer some meaningful insights into what went on during that event… this is precisely what you are doing.

          An ad hominem attack would have me countering your argument with personal insults. I insulted your logic, your opinion and your lack of any meaningful background to make that opinion, but I didn’t insult you as a person.

          Now, calling me a jerk and saying I should kill myself? That would be an ad hominem attack.

          How about instead of your thin skinned bickering (hey – if you are gonna write 4 opinion graphs on a gun blog, you need to toughen up), how about you do something useful to forward your argument? Like go find us a solid citizen self defense shooting against an armed assailant who was railroaded by an “unfriendly” prosecutor into a murder charge due to a technicality in the last decade?

          Since you claim to know “precisely” what an “unfriendly” prosecutor would do, this task should be easy?

          Or you could just have the realization that your massive “insight” into this case is really just you trying to look smart with your Defensive Handgun 101 class levels of knowledge of how self defense laws work.

        • Well, what about that pharmacist in the Midwest (Oklahoma, Arkansas?) who, after downing one perp (unarmed) with a single shot chased the other perp out the door, firing, and then came back, got another gun, and shot the perp on the floor to death. He too claimed self-defense, and he too believed that no jury would ever convict him. Bad guess.

  35. I think people are too caring for criminals. We should side more with the innocent people that defend themselves than the criminals that offend them.

    You cannot be over critical of the victim otherwise they will not defend themselves and especially others. The victim should not feel like they will be treated worse than the criminal.

    And… potential criminals should feel like if they commit crimes they are likely to DIE. Then the amount of risk versus reward deters them.

  36. The part I question is the final two shots. When those last two shots were fired, the goblins are clearly attempting to get away, so at that point the threat has ceased.

    Nothing wrong with trying to make the world a better place. If I’m ever on a jury for charges because someone shot an assailant / thief that was fleeing, there’s no way in hell I’d vote guilty.

    • Except in most states its illegal to keep shooting once the threat is retreating. Doing that in my state will get you a murder charge if you kill the bad guy once hes no longer a direct threat.

  37. Thank You Matt in Fl for posting this for us.

    I rise on this occasion to nominate Mr. Samuel Williams, 71, of the Ocala Florida region, with all due respect and sincere admiration for the first annual TTAG.com
    OFWG
    Defender of the Year Award.

    Can I get a second to this motion?

  38. “the goblins are clearly attempting to get away, so at that point the threat has ceased.” Or are they are attempting to reach cover and return fire? I expect common sense not mind reading from an armed citizen.

    • I’ve been looking for some good examples of exactly this for months. I pity the victim here but he was a MORON. You saw the guy up close you don’t need to frame yourself trying to “get a good look at him” as he leaves while you call the cops, you need to get in cover. He basically asked to get shot.

  40. Is it physically impossible for a guy to wing blind shots behind him as he attempts escape? No? Well there you go.

  41. I’m curious, in cases like this where the DA says everything was justified and they aren’t going to press any charges; do they still take the guy’s weapon?

  43. If I understand Florida’s gun laws right (been a few years since I lived there) as long as the threat has not been neutralized, you may continue to fire, but you can’t chase the BG once they are outside the building. Just how I remember the law, though I’m not a lawyer.

  44. Simply put, not a jury in the world would convict him. Much like the guy who beat the child molester to death when he caught him molesting his daughter.

    What if it wasn’t on video?

    Now, if it was a young healthy guy with a Ranger Up t-shirt and a hi capacity plastic fantastic or a any police officer we’d probably be hearing about excessive force.

    Some mother would be crying “My baby is such a good boy, he’d never hurt anyone”.

    • Police should be held to a different standard when on duty. Their responsibility/duty is to keep the public safe over themselves. It is expected they risk their life for the publics’.

      For instance running around town having a shoot-out with a criminal is putting the public in danger unnecessarily. Therefor shouldn’t be done just for the sake of arresting that person.

      Also while on duty their job is to arrest not kill criminals. Off duty is different.

      • The police are not required to risk their life for anyone.
        They are not responsible for the safety of individuals either.
        Lots of case law on that.
        A LEO’s duty is to go home safe at the end of every shift.

        • You are partially correct. Police have no duty to protect any individual or individual’s property, this has been ruled by many courts.

          However, police have an obligation to the community. They do many taks that place themselves in harms way (traffic stops, building searches, serving warrants etc.).

          Also, I think you are confusing “duty” with “responsibility”.

          It is every LEO’s RESPONSIBILITY to go home at the end of each shift. If an LEO witnessed a crime being committed, they have a DUTY to intervene. If a citizen reports a crime, they have a DUTY to investigate.

          Noticing a difference?

  45. This is the most irresponsible use of a gun for self defense that I have ever seen. Frankly, it really makes me angry. A .380? Really? What was he thinking? This video is the perfect example of why small caliber guns are useless. Other than making a scary noise, the shots didn’t appear to slow the bad guys retreat at all.

    In all truthfulness, the old guy is indeed a hero. He may have brought too small of a gun, but he stepped up and changed the dynamic of an extremely dangerous situation. Without a doubt, this is an excellent example of people being safer when law abiding citizens are armed.

    But I’m going to stick to my S/A XD .45 stuffed with Ranger T +P rounds. One of those, even up the ass, and you’re out of commission.

    • I don’t know how old you are and in what shape you are, but are you sure that at 71 you will be able to lug your .45 around on a hot Florida day, and, more importantly, be able to control it while you’re shooting.

      • I’m just about to tick off 53 and start 54 in a month or so.

        Carrying isn’t much of an issue for me right now, though I am fairly mobility challenged. The gun hangs on the outside of my belt and I hardly notice it’s there. The handle BuddhaKat is pretty fitting for me. I’m a smiling, happy FAT kat. No doubt I’ll get weaker as time goes by, but at least with my 45, all I have to do is shoot once. Adrenaline will get me through that. No need for 6 shots. 😉

        • “but at least with my 45, all I have to do is shoot once”
          ==============
          You idiot 45 fanboys and your laughable dreams of one shot kills.
          Get a clue son. Your 45 isnt nearly what you think it is.
          REAL men carry a 454 Casull.

  46. I love how the vast majority of the cattle on here are picking apart this guy’s reaction. How many people were in that cafe? How many lives did he save? I only hope that when and if anything like that were to happen in a place I was a guy with a similar mindset is backing me up.

    The majority of you talk a tough guy attitude against antis but when you see violence used in its most effective form you cringe at it.

    What will you do when the SHTF? Worry about laws and watch your life be taken away or kick ass like this old, awesome dude.

    Good luck folks. You need it.

  47. Wow, lots of armchair quarterbacks on this one…

    If someone points a gun at you, they have displayed “hostile intent”. If you are in genuine fear of serious bodily harm or death (for either yourself or another), you may use lethal force to neutralize the threat. This, of course, can be perceived differently from person to person and it cannot be properly assessed from seeing a few video cameras (see “objective reasonableness”).

    There are three main elements you need to effectively succeed in a violent encounter…

    1) Surprise
    2) Speed
    3) Violence of Action

    This man had all three. He did not give either subject an opportunity to return fire, seek cover or move to a position of advantage to take back control of the situation. This, I fear, is where many of you are criticizing Mr. Williams for continuing to shoot at the subjects and advance towards them.

    If you give a subject another opportunity to use deadly force on you after you gain the upper hand, then you are a fool. Plain and simple. Mr. Williams is no fool and made sure that the threat was no more before he stopped firing (hence why he stopped at the door and didn’t keep chasing them out in the street). He then secures the door and assesses the area. I see nothing wrong with Mr. Williams’ actions except for not using a sufficient caliber and shot placement to properly neutralize the threat in the least amount of bullets as possible. Every bullet you fire has the chance of missing your target and gives your target an opportunity to engage you back.

    *Riot Out*

  48. He did not follow them out side and give them a couple to the head, he wanted to make sure they were not coming back in with the gun (or bat), No one puts their finger on a trigger without the intent to fire a weapon, this goes both ways. For the idiots on the street who wish to commit a crime, and the rest of us who go through handgun safety. He was correct in going for the target that posed the most threat first, notice the bat carrier is just as big as a coward. A +

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