I was filling-up my SUV late yesterday evening, open carrying. Rather than wonder what my fellow motorists thought of me, I wondered what I’d think if they were open carrying, too. Do I really want to live in a world where lots of people are running around openly armed? Sure! Why not? Yes, well, check this out [via wcpo.com]:
A citizen armed with a rifle and knife is walking the streets of a Las Vegas neighborhood, saying he’s had enough of all the crime.
“If there is possibly a very determined enemy, we at least have the means to deal with it,” said 20-year-old Conor Climo.
Climo’s one-man civilian foot patrol began Friday morning in the neighborhood of Centennial Hills.
Climo is armed with a rifle and knife. He said the weapons will keep him safe as he patrols alone.
Ultimately, Climo said he hopes others will join him. He said he envisions a citywide civilian force.
The plan is getting mixed reviews.
Some neighbors said they’re hoping criminals will be deterred. However, others said they feel uncomfortable with Climo’s weapons on the street.
“I don’t know what his intentions are, what his motives are, what his background is,” one neighbor said.
The gun guy’s patrol is Constitutionally protected, of course. But is this a good idea or bad idea? And what if a fellow citizen was pumping gas with a slung AR?
I think its a generally bad idea legally, but a grand idea morally. This is exactly the sort of law enforcement envisioned by our founding fathers. The way I see it, the Police should coordinate these sorts of patrols rather than serve as revenue generators for the local petty tyrants.
I’d say it was a good idea only in certain contexts, ie: post-disaster (hurricane, earthquake, race riot, soccer championship, etc.). I might even consider it myself to keep looters away from my block; but if nothing really extraordinary is going on, people simply wonder what boogie men your defending against.
Thanx for your concern, dude – but don’t you have some important video games you could be playing?
Who pays for the liability indurance?
Spent “some time ” in the military. Hmmm. Evasive response; at least he doesn’t claim wannabe special operator status . We don’t need to investigate him for Stolen Valor. Studying to be a “private investigator?” Hmmm. Maybe wannabe LEO? Maybe too many TV fantasies,? He wouldn’t know about Mickey Spillane, Boston Blackie, Mayberry RFD with Barney Fife or Sam Spade, but is old enough to know of George Zimmerman. An AR 15 in a suburban neighborhood? Does he know the law of deadly force? Is he aware of where his projectile might fly if he misses a target? Does he patrol 24/,7 or just in daylight hours? Can he discern between looters , thugs, and neighborhood residents? Finally, by whose authority does he patrol? Sounds like a one man show, replete with carbine and vest– –ie, great optics. But does he know his stuff beyond braggart stage? With the right to bear arms comes responsibility, be it ever so curiously proposed to him. Finally, does he have staying power? You all really think he’ll do this month after month?
I suspect the weapons are to keep HIM safe, a public display of the means to produce force while having police on speed dial. Most nice neighborhoods have a constable. Low power loads, hollowpoint or flat nose, etc, can reduce over penetration, not that it helps because if you hit a building cops will burn you at the stake anyway, even if you did everything right. Miss even once, damage ANYTHING, and it will be like flies on shit trying to give you a felony rap sheet.
I doubt there is much in the way of ‘authority’ required if you are walking on public side walks, provided you keep walking and not loiter in front of someones home. If open carry is allowed and the HOA isn’t a liberal cesspool you should be ok, at least until someone starts complaining.
I lived through a race. A slung AR by a lone individual would gather all the thugs in the group to the one guy and they would try to bait him into doing something then call the police on him.
I agree with this comment.
The general air of the quote is kind of fear-mongery. But the concerns are valid. I’m not sure I’d trust a rando walking around with a gun either.
Granted that’s easily fixed by actually TALKing to the guy. Amirite?
PeterK,
Do you mistrust every fit male walking around with hands and feet? You should because violent criminals killed more people with their fists and feet than rifles last year.
Do you mistrust every person who drives by in their car? You should because negligent people and criminals killed far more people with their cars than rifles last year.
Do you mistrust every person between the ages of 13 and 75 who walk by? You should because every single one of them could have a concealed handgun and criminals used handguns far more often than rifles to kill people last year.
Deciding whether or not to trust someone based on their potential offensive capabilities is a losing strategy because EVERY PERSON YOU ENCOUNTER COULD HAVE THE CAPABILITY TO KILL YOU. Rather, evaluate someone by their actions instead of their potential capabilities.
I don’t know a lot about the situation. What I do know would arouse my suspicions because it is unusual.
You can pose all kinds of hypotheticals. The actions of the guy and the context matter, though. I just meant that if I saw some guy patrolling my neighborhood, I’d feel weird about it.
As I said, though. The suspicion is due to lack of info. And if I just talked to the guy I’m sure I could allay all my fears.
His right reigns supreme over all opinions!!
Agreed. But would you “patrol” with him?
Hey there, Potato Zim.
Depends, I would need to talk to a very good lawyer first and make sure I would have a solid legal defense if things went south.
If you need to talk to a lawyer first, the act in question may not be the best idea.
@Night or maybe it’s time to dust off that Constitution and read it.
Perhaps the “one neighbor” should stop wondering and just ask?
That would require actually getting to know your neighbors.
I know a few people in the local gun groups that know this guy. He’s a little off. He meant well, but his execution is flawed and seems to be listening to the wrong cheerleaders. Some people in the OC groups were going to try and chat with him to bring back reality.
Once this guy doesn’t get attention anymore, he’ll loose interest and move on.
I appreciate your inside knowledge of this gentleman, but 30 seconds of the video leads me to the same impression as yours. This guy is Las Vegas-Zim. This is exactly how I picture the other Forum-Zims spending their days in their respective parts of the country.
Potahto Zim!
Zim-Ing! How was class today?
I noticed his age. He isn’t old enough to carry a pistol yet is he?
The open carry age in Nevada is 18.
Given the state of mind of Vegas visitors it might not be the best place to do it.
Las Vegas has a lot of neighborhoods, some good and some bad, while visitors stay on The Strip or Downtown — neither of which can be called a neighborhood.
If this guy isn’t walking around The Strip or Fremont Street, it’s unlikely that he will be seen by a visitor.
unless he is well known in the neighborhood, with a good reputation – it sounds like a bad idea…
I really wouldn’t say it was a good idea mostly, it’s going to be very disturbing to a lot of people. They’re going to at the very least think of it as crazy vigilante justice, at worst they’re going to find it threatening. It will “prove” to them that what they heard about how crazy gun nuts are is true and that the U.S. has a bizarre gun fetish. That’s probably the biggest reason to not do it. It’s really bad for PR. When you start patrolling the streets with “assault rifles” as people will put it, then you start making people nervous.
Generally a bad idea. But he has identified himself and his intentions so there should be no mistake on anybody’s part.
Doing that alone is just asking to get ambushed and murdered for your kit.
If you ambush someone armed with an AR then you really got some balls.
An “ambush” is designed to be effective against anyone or any group no matter what they are carrying. that’s the point of an ambush. It designed so you don’t see it coming. That AR doesn’t have magical powers and you can be killed by some kid with a 22 hiding in a bush.
By “patrolling” in the open you give up the element of Surprise leaving only Speed and Action of Violence to be successful. Why?
That doesn’t remove the risk of being killed by someone who is better armed. You would have to disable them immediately to be safe otherwise you’re going to be getting in a fight where you’re someone armed with a hand gun shooting it out with someone armed with a long gun. Those aren’t good odds. I’m not saying it couldn’t be done, I’m saying you got balls if you’re willing to try it. I don’t think most people would.
The past three years have seen several successful examples of police officers having been ambushed. If you have the element of surprise and your weapons meet a basic threshold of lethality, you’re going to win that encounter. It’d be easy enough to take out this lone pup on patrol.
That’s exactly the problem that I see. If you are going to patrol openly carrying (attractive) long guns then you need a back up (wing man?) patrolling close to you (the other sidewalk? on a vehicle?) or hidden oversight (sniper) to protect you and stop any problem before it happens. Just saying.
Too many wimps in the country to not be rattled by this. It will hurt our cause. Baby steps.
In the short run, perhaps so. In the longer term what do you think their attitude will be when crime becomes practically nonexistent?
“when crime becomes practically nonexistent”
When the solution to stopping animals from acting like animals is invented, Im curious to see how it works for the “early adopters”.
Makes me think about that movie Equilibrium.
If such a person appeared in my neighborhood, I would politely ask if he would allow me to interview him at length. My inquiry would be more along the line of tactics, mobility, training in observing criminal activity, rules of gun safety. My interest would be improving his effectiveness, reducing unrest in the neighborhood (like knocking on every door [unarmed], and introducing himself and his oplan to each resident he seeks to protect).
Neighborhood watch group? Sure.
One guy, who is holding a scary black rifle in a manner that could be construed as brandishing? Not so smart.
“A citizen armed with a rifle and knife is walking the streets of a Las Vegas neighborhood, saying he’s had enough of all the crime.”
Is he a white Hispanic?
I can see neighborhood watch guys patrolling their South or West side of Chicago ‘hood in AR armed teams but it is absolutely stupid to do it in your average suburban neighborhood. Open carry a sidearm yeah but anybody walking around in a low crime area with a long gun has a serious Walter Mitty problem.
Yup, I don’t see any utility in OCing a rifle in my little part of the world. But there are some neighborhoods in Las Vegas (where Conor Climo is “patrolling”) where I would not venture without an AR and some armed friends. And North Las Vegas (a separate city from Las Vegas) has the highest crime rate in the entire nation. It’s like Chiraq with heatstroke.
We would all be better off if North town just burned to the ground already…
Sure, why not! Though, I would hope anyone toting around an AR during their neighborhood watch duty would be capable of making lawful defensive choices.
Eh, doesn’t particularly strike a chord with me one way or the other. I don’t know about the crime rate in his neighborhood so it is hard to say. If there has been a rash of crime, then hey why not go for it? It is up to residents and community members to improve things where they live- people shouldn’t depend on the police or city council to do that for them.
That being said, he could find himself on a slippery slope if he in fact has to use his rifle to prevent a crime. No matter what kind of stand your ground laws a state has, it is never going to look good legally if you’re patrolling a street armed, and end up shooting somebody. I would imagine most of the crime he is likely to encounter would be crimes that are not likely to be life-threatening and would be occurring outside of a home. So as serge said, good moral mindset, sketchy legal mindset.
If he had to use it, I could see the national media jumping on it in a big way and spinning it to be another George Zimmerman type deal.
This dude has Vegas-Zim written all over him.
Zim Zallah Bim!
Holy crap dude, drop all the Zim stuff already. We get it. You don’t like George Zimmerman and some of the other posters here. How about contributing to the dialogue instead of flogging a dead horse?
Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html?_r=0
Do I really want to live in a world where lots of people are running around openly armed?
Like you really have a choice?
Or like the laws that “prevent” it really prevent it moment to moment.
You have the GOD given Freedom, moment to moment, to do most anything that doesn’t defy the laws of Physics. Upholding Societal Agreement (in the exercise of [those] Freedoms) is what garners you earned “Liberty” to do it again, and that is a dearer thing still.
“AR Armed Foot Patrols in Suburban Neighborhood. Yes or No?”
No. But if you wished to walk around with a holstered pistol then have at it.
Sure, if the crime in his neighborhood is a problem, the OC of a patrol rifle would be a deterrent. But if I chose to do that, I would pass out flyers to my neighbors saying that is what I was doing, I would wear a vest saying neighborhood watch, and I would try to organize with others to get round the clock coverage.
bad idea ALL the way around
Plenty of jurisdictions have COP (citizens on patrol) programs, whereby residents work with the police to serve as their eyes and ears on scheduled patrols.
Plenty of jurisdictions have volunteer reserve officer programs, too, whereby citizens patrol as actual licensed peace officers in department cruisers with full legal authority, but at your own equipment expense. You could join your state national guard, too, which get called out not only during active civil unrest, but also after emergencies such as natutal disasters, to help keep the peace
There are other community watch organizations you can contact for information on setting up an organized neighborhood watch.
So there are plenty of opportunities out there to do something meaningful and good, without becoming a full time officer yourself, though that option exists, too.
If you’re just one guy who’s disregarded all of these options, in favor of just running around solo with a rifle and knife, you’re basically a jackwagon playing cops and robbers. It’s only a matter of time before you or someone else gets hurt unnecessarily. More likely, you’ll get bored first and move on to your next fantasy.
In my town, I see OC’ers pumping gas, shopping, etc., etc., every week, almost everyday. No big whoop. We have a strong tradition of firearms ownership in SW PA. Seeing people openly carrying rifles, not so much. Almost every pick up used to have a rifle or shotgun hung in the back window until our imported and local heroin scum started stealing them. I personally am not a fan of walking around with an ar because it reinforces the negative stereotypes of us all being lunatic militia members.
Nothing wrong with an armed neighborhood watch. But it should be a community organization with SOPs, duty Rosters, uniforms (like maybe an armband or something) and the like. Basically, a “well-regulated militia”. This isn’t a well regulated militia, this is a lone vigilante.
Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying what he’s doing should be illegal, but it’s not smart in this case.
“20-year-old Conor Climo.”
An unintended consequence of the age 21 threshold for handgun purchases. Maybe once he’s old enough to strap on a Glock, he’ll learn to leave the rifle at home and patrol his neighborhood without attracting so much attention.
That would be the number one reason, I, myself, would carry an AR or any rifle and not a handgun. If I could buy a handgun and ammo I would, but, I can’t.
I’ve though about carrying a AR in protest of the 21+ law but haven’t done it. If I knew that 21+ would change to 18+ if protested then I might do it.
“Maybe once he’s old enough to strap on a Glock”
In NV, he is old enough (over 18) to strap on a Glock.
I know. But he can’t buy one from an FFL. Perhaps he hasn’t fully explored other options.
If my area NEEDED armed patrols I’d want them. The issue is that we just don’t have a lot of violent crime. What we need is speed bumps BUT they are illegal in our county even if we pay for them.
It depends on the risk of the area quite frankly. I’d think a pistol would be fine, even something concealed.
In the end though as mentioned the best policy is having a relationship with your neighbors.
His neighbors need to join him.
If I was his neighbor, I’d have a for sale sign in my yard.
I am not entirely sure of the wisdom, experience, and judgment of ANY 20 year old guy OC in any quiet suburban USA area–this is not Beiruit, Falluja, or Afghan, and this OC guy is not part of or subject to any organized authority or command structure–so, big NO to this idea–and I am a 75 yo NRA CCW lifer/lawyer with long experience in this field!!! Deplorable DMD
Old-timey movie westerns are not a reliable source for information about the usefulness and effectiveness of vigilance committees.
OC’ing or CC’ing a pistol with a neighborhood watch group, sure.
OC’ing a rifle/knife with web gear? Not so much. Only time I’d consider that being necessary is after a major disaster when calling 911 isn’t an option because the cops aren’t going to be around for a while (like Katrina).
Even from the short interview I have to questions the soundness of his rationale. Did he not say he was in the military for a very short time? Did he wash out? Have a medical discharge? While I agree with the concept in principle, I question his motives, training and mental state. But that’s just me…
+1
Open carry is verboten in Illinois. I don’t care what goes on in Vega$…but if you got the right have at it.
Everyone has the right. It’s just that some locales have convinced the residents that they don’t….
All you need to recapture the right is to scoop it up off the trash heap, dust it off and exercise it.
(Simple, and hard, all at the same time. Not sure I would have the guts to do it, but it’s a simple concept all the same.)
In the event of some sort of natural disaster or breakdown in civilization, sure!
At other times, I would say that the best approach would be a neighborhood organization where patrols (ideally with more than one person) armed like this would be fine if there is a known problem, such as a rash of burglaries for example.
Just a lone guy deciding to stroll about like this, even though it’s legal it seems to be a case of being a ‘wannabe vigilante’. If he did have to shoot, could he claim that he was in fear for his life? Possibly not which could lead to legal problems……
I’m all for neighborhoods getting together to arrange some sort of unofficial militia type organization that could be mobilized in the event of a problem.
“And what if a fellow citizen was pumping gas with a slung AR?”
Why would such a thing bother me?
To me, the only thing these folks really do wrong is carry their rifle at a low ready. I find that discourteous but it’s not illegal.
I would simply encourage them to keep the rifle slung in a way that, for the most part, they keep their hands off it.
I like how his neighbor said he didn’t know his intentions. He’s not mowing people down when he see them, so I conclude he’s looking for specific people. The specific people he’s looking for are dangerous criminals, the ones that the government claims to protect us from, but don’t. It’s like the line in Captain America where Sam asks “How do we tell who the bad guys are?” & Steve answers “They’re the one’s who are shooting at us.”
I don’t want the Lone Ranger taking it upon himself to secure my neighborhood. An organized group with structure and a chain of command? Sure. We have neighborhood watch groups nationwide.
“We have neighborhood watch groups nationwide.”
Your comment made me think of that Lifelock commercial depicting a bank robbery.
“I’m not a security guard. I’m a security monitor. I only let you know when there’s a problem. There’s a problem.”
Down that path, madness lies. The easiest way to turn into a FUDD is to think about some of the less responsible people you may have met exercising the same right to keep and bear arms that you do.
It takes a LOT more than just everyday irresponsibility to do something that damages people and property, it takes outright negligence and stupidity, which is a lot more rare than most people think.
“But is this a good idea or bad idea? And what if a fellow citizen was pumping gas with a slung AR?”
That seems pretty silly to me in any place I would ever consider stopping to get gas unless an emergency. Seems like either it would be slung in a way to get in the way and make even getting gas inconvenient or slung in such a way that it would be just as accessible left in the car.
I don’t have a general objections to OC and OC my sidearm frequently. Never having found myself in a natural disaster or other calamity, I haven’t found any need to OC any long gun outside of range/field.
As to the kid “on patrol”, well, it looks like a nice neighborhood so it may be perceived as an outsized response. Reminds me of another kid who was doing a similar thing within the last few years. I think that other one was in Colorado and was carrying a wood stocked military rifle, but I don’t remember for sure and don’t remember details. I’m just struck by how similar the 2 kids are.
The “nice neighborhoods” in Vegas are usually anything but. We can think the HUD and RTC for a lot of that.
It’s not what anyone wants, it’s latent civil war, and we wouldn’t be seeing it if we were still a country of Americans.
But after eight years of Enemies Domestic, with all manner of enemies pouring across our borders every day, including drug cartels, MS-13, muslim jihadis, African tribesmen and desperate, illiterate, unemployable, penniless savages from the Third World everywhere, it’s where we are heading with all due speed.
Crime in our country is exploding. This is what obama and the enemy Democrat Party have wrought. This is what they want. This is their legacy.
obama: History’s Most Ignominious Traitor.
Generally speaking, I would say that it depends on the neighborhood. If it is well known fact that crime is occurring in the neighborhood at a predictable frequency, then poll the neighborhood about your plans and go for it if its well received. If not, stay home and protect your castle. And no, you don’t need to walk around with an AR.
If crime is low or almost unheard of in your neighborhood, stay home and protect your castle. If you are a cop wannabe that didn’t qualify, there is probably a good reason for that.
AR’s
Shotguns
Handguns
Pitchforks and torches
Whatever it takes, whatever you got.
I’ve often said that these high crime neighborhoods would be well served by a citizen militia with members on duty to shut down drivebys. It would only take a couple of torched cars before the word would get out that its not a good idea to shoot up THAT neighborhood….
You left out the wisest option, a “for sale” sign.
““I don’t know what his intentions are, what his motives are, what his background is,” one neighbor said.”
You could ask him? I think he just answered part of that question anyways.
You wouldn’t know the answer to any of that if he was carrying concealed either. You just wouldn’t be as concerned because you couldn’t “see” the weapon, which to me is weird.
I’m glad he is doing it and it’s absolutely his right.
Good intentions, bad tactics. Bad guys see him all alone, make a distraction, shoot him in the back or flank. Or sniper if he patrols the same areas frequently. He needs some extra eyeballs.
I’d rather have someone like Dean Weingarten patrolling my neighborhood with a holstered Glock.
The neighborhood ladies would probably bring him iced tea when he passed by.
If I was him I would have canvased the houses along my planned route and introduced myself, announced my intentions and left them with a flyer containing my photo, some facts about open carry and crime deterence, and a list of emergency contact numbers.
Only then, would I have started such a patrol.
Hes a kid…he means well, but he lacks life experience and a fully developed sense of empathy.
No. I don’t want some tacticool asshat running around playing wannabe-soldier in my neighborhood. Evening strolls armed with a open or concealed sidearm, fine, but the d-bag kitted up need to go back home to their parents basement and play some more Call of Duty.
There is a fine line between “crazy good” and “crazy bad.” This is closer to “crazy bad.”
If the guy were truly afraid of being jumped to the point that she should arm himself with a rifle, he really should just stay inside. Excluding any debate about open/concealed carry for handguns, the state will ban the open carry of rifles when (not if) his “citywide civilian force” creates problems.
Not illegal. Check
No one harmed. Check.
Jimmies rustled. Check.
NFG. Good on him for doing something, because it gets young people off their phones and outside.
And for sale signs in the yards
Arming up against bad guys?
Good idea.
Patrolling solo and putting yourself in harms way with the US Justice system being what it is and with gun control being a presidential debate topic?
Not a wise idea. One screw up and he will be the poster child of why the 2A is ineffective and dangerous.
If this guy is a “little off”, he now is a prime candidate for The mental health vs 2A issue.
Better to join a neighborhood watch or similar group — preferably one that has something like Texas Law Shield.
Or become a police officer or member of the national guard.
Without experience in the field or training, I imagine going solo is about as risky as it gets. I would personally never opt to go OCing and patrolling solo unless I was traveling to a specific location on a predetermined route where I felt I had a distinct advantage the majority of the way.
I think it’s generally a good idea if done in teams of 2 or more and at least one of them has the maturity to act as a social safety brake on the other. I do have misgivings about him carrying a knife but I can’t see what type it is so I’m not going to elaborate on that.
Unless you live in a really bad neighborhood, a car with the words “BLOCK WATCH” serves the same purpose.
Sounds like a good way to get your AR taken away from you by two kinds of thugs: 1.Street Thugs. They will slide up to you and tell you how cool you is, etc, then mug you. Thugs love guns. 2. Cop thugs. They will roll up to you and tell you that you is going to be arrested, but if you gives them da gun they will let it slide. Cops love guns. Summary: Carrying unconcealed is just asking for trouble. I hope he gives it up soon, before he gets his gun taken away from him, or worse, actually discharges it for any reason: that would cause a shit-storm he will regret forever.
about time. it’s the literal premise of #CommitteesOfSafety during the Founders’ days. Also wouldn’t be a bad idea for the same coterie to keep an eye on govt terrorist oink oinks: watching the watchers, and intervening when some roidhead govt terrorist twat ‘goes off the res’ beyond what’s necessary to subdue and detain a suspect.
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