Over at Montana’s bozemandailychronicle.com, Norman A. Bishop wants to reassure gun owners that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (And Really Big Fires) isn’t coming for their guns. “Contrary to rumor, the ATF has no database on every gun owner in America. In fact, they are an analog agency in a digital world. Furthermore, even if they had the authorization and the direction to sweep across the country and confiscate all our weapons, they have neither the funding nor the manpower to bring it off.” You buying what he’s selling?

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71 COMMENTS

  2. I don’t know what their intent or desire is. Fortunately for us they’re mostly the keystone cops of America. At Waco they had to be rescued by the feebs.

    All upper level law enforcement, whether local or federal needs to be subject to election and recall. No appointed top cops.

    • Agreed, and we need to revise their charter of operation such that they are no longer empowered to arbitrarily make law based on whatever whimsy strikes them. They may advise Congress and the Senate on laws relating to their alleged fields of specialties, and may submit drafts for Congress and the Senate of bills they’d like to see made into law.

      • I will also agree, however put Hillery in place and dump a ton of new funding in place (shifted from the military she hates) and she would be rewriting executive orders and issuing new ones like there was no tomorrow. Wholesale tyranny even if it is somewhat ineffective is much worse than the creeping tyranny we have had for many years!

        Please don'[t tell me the neutered Republican Congress would impeach her! That would only happen if they caught her naked in bed with a dead child with film evidence and DNA to boot! Failing that we would be stuck with that horrific vicious evil tyrant for at least four years.

    • Mostly agreed but it’ll just be a creeping tyranny…which is the history of the United States…they know if they do something drastic then there’ll be repurcussions.

      So they are content to play the long game. But at some point I’d bet that either state by state or by foreign action they will try a confiscation scheme. I don’t think anybody knows what will happen after the baby-boomer generation dies off in the States, but that’s a whole lot of people that no longer will be around and a lot of their children do not think like they do thanks to government run brainwashing academies we call public schools.

      So give it a few years…

  4. Ban maybe not drown people in beuracracy to manufacture criminals via regulatory fiat with the intention of making people wish they were absolutely.

    • Yes, it’d be the UN

      US troops will refuse to do it so it’ll be foreign ones

      Apparently they’ve already been training here in Operation Vigilant Guard (Chicago) 2010

      We joined the UN Arms Trade Treaty (September 23, 2013: The United States becomes the 91st state to sign the ATT)

      See Article 15 in UNATT (cooperate with other states-parties in order to implement the ATT effectively (Article 15)).

  11. He, like most antis, is playing a game of semantics.
    No the ATF proper won’t be coming after your guns but the local popo sure would in certain states and cities.
    No there is no official centralized database but we already know that NICS checks arent wiped with any urgency, NIBIN is a thing, eTrace is a thing, they have the records of closed businesses.

    ATF aside several states have their own registries. Licensing and permitting schemes while not direct firearm registries give goon squads a pretty good idea of what houses to hit.

    No confiscation will be complete of course. It doesn’t have to be. Owners just have to be afraid to bring them out. Buried and hidden guns are of no use. Pair that fear with a mandatory requirement to report stolen guns and after a few are stolen by real criminals or government criminals working on a hunch do you report having had what was prohibited in the first place? If you do report what are the penalties for contributing to the “epidemic of gun violence” even if the arms stolen were Thompson Center single shots?

    This will all creep incrementally. Just as we’ve seen in CA where every year what was once perfectly legal suddenly is no longer. MA is doing it right now. NY and CT will in time step up their game and it won’t matter one bit that 70% of gun owners did not comply.

    Allegedly a great deal of Aussies did not comply as well. Who won there? Sure, the antis didnt confiscate them all but hidden, buried and rusted is just as good as confiscated.

    • “This will all creep incrementally. Just as we’ve seen in CA where every year what was once perfectly legal suddenly is no longer. ”

      The ‘cake’ ideology of control. Keep chipping away at the edges and you eventually get to the center. And by that time, its too late. Long live the king.

  12. House to house confiscation is unlikely.

    However, smothering regulations to drive up costs, drive down availability, and drive much of the industry out of business is exactly the plan.

    Importing from every corrupt, 3rd world hellhole as many disease ridden, illiterate, mental defectives as possible yearning to live for free on American welfare gives them the electoral wherewithal to make it happen.

    Three generations without gun ownership, and you’ll have as strong and practical an attachment to your Second Amendment rights as you do to your great, great grandparents or your second cousins thrice removed. Similarly, they’ll be confined to weathered writings, faded pictures, and perhaps some family lore, but that’s about it.

  13. Absolutely not!!!!! Every time we hear that the government is not going to take away another right is when they DO take away another right!!

  15. They would go for it right now if they had the political climate to get it done so they settle with more bans, reinterpretations, and constantly making our lives harder. Heck they would love it if all guns but government guns were illegal it would make their job so much easier!

    Don’t underestimate the arrogance and zeal of those in power who would love nothing more than to grab every gun in the hands of law-abiding citizens. Other nations did it including the much larger Soviet Union. If there is a will there is a way.

    Remember Katrina. No cops or soldiers stood down when told to start confiscating guns. They all just followed orders.

    Look at the more recent Connecticut cop on Facebook gloating how he is waiting for the day to start confiscating our guns. He isn’t an anamoly there are more silent ones out there just like him itching to go, no paycheck needed he is a true believer!!

    All I am saying is don’t underestimate the government’s lust for power and don’t overestimate the allies you think you have in the army and police.

    • I was a first responder on the ground during Katrina (Military Police), the gun confiscation reports were widely exaggerated. Now I believe one unconstitutional confiscation is too many, and there certainly were some of those, but the vast majority of confiscated arms were ones found abandoned or ones taken during an arrest for a criminal offense. Also, all unconstitutional confiscations were done almost exclusively by NOPD and the Orleans Parish Sheriff’s department. And let’s face it, NOPD isn’t exactly known for their adherence to the law/rules in the first place. I think there may have been one LA National Guard unit that started doing it at the request of the city, but they were ordered to cease and desist by their upper echelon pretty quickly. I didn’t see any federal assets participating in any illegal confiscations. Most of us were too busy with search and rescue trying to save lives.

      • I agree with you Brett. I heard that all military’s unit with the one exception you pointed out did not participate/refused in the gun confiscation. We my Guard unit deployed for Hurricane Gustav we were given direct guidance not to participate in any gun grabbing, which everyone on my unit agree with, even the ones that were cops in their civilian jobs. It always amazing me how people, that have never spent a day in uniform, think people in the military are just a bunch of mindless robots that will do anything they are told and it is the furthest thing from the truth. But whatever….It’s Friday…time to drink some beer!

    • But but but oath keepers

      Blah blah blah , if the checks keep coming then people will violate your rights without a care in the world. Once the money runs out then something may change

    • Revenue,

      And, to minimize the number of lawfully owned firearms nationwide by utilizing a confusing maze of regulation, delay, and burdensome taxes.

  20. There are people serving in the US Senate today who were there 20 years ago, proclaiming they would do EXACTLY that if they could get the votes, not saying that secretly but at a press conference, and proudly. Still there, opinion hasn’t changed, I absolutely do not believe that steps are not being taken towards confiscation, every single day. If we go to sleep for 10 years, it will be over. Possibly if we go to sleep thru Nov. 8.

  22. Oh good, i can add to the question, how many are truly prepared to start pulling those triggers when the tyrants come knocking? I for one couldn’t look my daughters in the eye and say ” I’m sorry daddy was a coward and that’s how we ended up in fema camps”, what say you folks? I don’t believe much the government has to say, i prefer to stay armed, illegally if that’s what it takes, and alert.

    • Amen. Better to die a free man with honor, than to sheepishly submit to actions that violate 2nd Amendment and inalienable rights, and end up disarmed as a slave in a camp, where you will most likely be tortured and/or shot in the back of the head.

      The Katrina disarming was one of the sickest things I have ever witnessed. Every single cop and national guardsmen who “just followed orders” were cowardly, traitors and in my opinion ” domestic enemies” as defined in the 2nd Amendment

      We know better now, and that will not happen again without resistance

      Live free or die!

      • I will die on my feet before I live on my knees. I believe the ATF will keep having “slip ups” like Ruby Ridge, Waco, and the ones that don’t make the news. Has any one heard anything about the biker shootings in Waco? Not the ATF, but more dead bodies that no one will be held accountable for. This is the new America.

    • I’m 100% prepared to die for liberty. We all have to die sometime. Better to die this way then via prostate cancer.

  23. His reasons why a government agency won’t come for our guns? They don’t have the funding, nor the data. A *government agency* that doesn’t have the funding or data on a large number of its citizens. I’m not buying what he’s selling.

    Also notably absent, he never said that they don’t want to. He just rattled off a couple reasons why they haven’t yet.

  24. I won’t pretend to know what the ATF can actually pull off with respect to manpower and funding. With that being said. I’ll bet you all my beer money that if they could they would!!

  25. There is zero chance that it will be the ATF coming for your guns. It will be a different agency entirely.

  26. If the question is whether or not the ATF has the resources needed to successfully confiscate every gun in America, then the answer is a resounding “no.”

    I recently read an article (possibly on this site) taking about how the ATF currently doesn’t even have enough manpower to monitor the increasing number of licensed gun manufacturers in this country.

    At a minimum, I think it would take the concerted efforts of multiple government agencies to pull off something like that, similar to the way the effort in Iraq was split up (Marines in Anbar, Army elsewhere, etc). And this is, of course, assuming gun owners would peacefully, and willingly hand them over. To be clear, I’m not saying the military would necessarily be involved in such an effort, just giving an example of the division of manpower in a monumental mission.

  27. It doesn’t matter, their mission is insane. If government is a self aware robot, the ATF is HAL9000 with a conflicting set of primary directives.

  29. The funding and manpower part of what he’s saying I believe. I don’t for a second believe that the Insta-check information hasn’t been stored. It may not even be at ATF, it may be FBI or NSA, but somewhere there are a series of servers that have SSN’s matched to make/model/serial numbers. And from there it’s easy to put in an SSN into a Fusion Center search and grab your DMV records, service record, credit history, etc. The 21rst century is a digital book. The government IS set up to read it.

  30. Anything is possible but the ATF is unlikely to go after individuals who aren’t selling guns.

    The threat to our liberties, all of them, does not come from LE. No matter what the political system LE is there protect civil order, not exercise social control. Under a dictatorship they may get away with more but they are not the ones to be feared. The agent for social control is not subject to the legal system. They operate outside of it and are there to protect “the Party.” The Democrats are outsourcing this role to criminal gangs. The entire BLM movement is nothing more than the Democratic Party paving the way for gangs to control urban America so they extend the kind of social control they over the ghetto into middle America.

    • No matter what the political system LE is there protect civil order, not exercise social control

      Have you actually been around for the past few decades, or did you just step out of an alternate dimension? Passing laws to enforce social control is de rigueur and law enforcement, well, enforces laws. Breaking down doors at 4 AM to bust people for peaceably possessing guns or drugs has nothing to do with maintaining civil order.

  33. They won’t come for your guns. The gov when it is more D than R will just pass a law banning the weapons they don’t like and leave no grandfathering. The judicial branch all the way up to SOCTUS will rubber stamp it as constitutional and then you will just be required to turn it in before a certain date or become a felon. We have already seen this at the state level in a few states.

  34. To me it will be less confiscation and more of a slow societal change to where the new normal becomes NOT owning guns and slowly over these next generations weapons of any kind are removed from the general fabric of society simply because they will be unpopular with the new generations.
    Look how small shooting sports are compared to say “Pokemon GO”
    It’s sad to think we may as well just expect this to be the case. I’m hoping I’m wrong I’m hoping our nation will not lose what makes this nation safe and secure. our Constitution and each and every amendment it contains offer our nation security, remove one and watch the rest fall!

    • i think shooting sports should be combined with pokemon go. not to mention combining shotguns with the “it’s a small world” exhibit at disney.

  35. Norman A. Bishop wants to reassure gun owners that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (And Really Big Fires) isn’t coming for their guns.
    And Bishop knows this because?

  36. I think know their record keeping is a lot better than we know bit they are not manned enough to confiscate anything. They expect local cops to do that some day.

  38. guns? what guns? the ATFvkers will need to dive to the bottom of lake tahoe, im pretty sure thats where the tragic boating accident happened.

  39. “Furthermore, even if they had the authorization and the direction to sweep across the country and confiscate all our weapons, they have neither the funding nor the manpower to bring it off.”

    True. These agents live in our neighborhoods. While Agent Krupke is knocking on a door somewhere, one of his neighbors will be setting fire to Krupke’s house and holding off the fire department with a suppressed .300BLK.

    Day 2? Nobody shows up for work.

    • Just like nobody showed up for work after DFW? This childish belief than an entire .gov structure is going to collapse because of a couple of suicidal attacks nationwide is, well, childish.

      These aren’t foreign troops or .gov personnel. They don’t have a home country to run to. They live here and they will fight just as hard as any other troops have thru out history.

      The only way to bring this .gov down is to put troops in the field. Trained, organised and lead with a replacement .gov waiting to step in.

      The occasional DFW does nothing but give them an excuse to write more laws and spend more money on curtailing our rights.

  40. Saying it ain’t so, only makes it more likely. It’s funny-sad how people look at the american political industrial complex as though it wasn’t made up of humans who, throughout history, have turned into power hungry assholes.
    Your gov’t is just made up of your a-hole neighbors that needed a job.

  41. They are coming be ready, Remember Ruby ridge and Waco where they fried 80 children! all in the name of Government because the ATF wanted publicity for funding, time too have a national referendum on no longer funding the ATF, BLM IRS, etc! wait that won’t work because we get Idiot Democrats passing bills they don’t read, and a corrupted ex secretary of state for whom the fix is in from her Democratic Buddies, The judiciary at this point is a Joke it’s only interest is in protecting the Rich and corrupt politicians along with their propaganda machines of the so called news media! Military with their Mount projects (enforcing Martial Law after the ATF invasion even using them as door knockers)! What can one person do? put your head in the sand and sing woe is me, or pull a victor Charlie on them!
    Yes they will fight hard except the element of surprise, target selection and timing is an advantage! then it will be total war!

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