In the wake of yesterday’s Nice truck attack, it’s clear that the multi-billion dollar, multi-government effort to defeat radical Islamic terrorism is a failure. Not a total failure, but a failure nonetheless. The massacre not only highlights governments’ inability to protect innocent citizens from terrorists, it makes a mockery of those who consider gun control as a form of terrorist control.
Just as criminals find a way to murder each other in the ultimate “gun free zone” (prison), society cannot expect gun control to have any significant impact on terrorism. Airliners, pressure cookers, trucks, knives, explosives…iihadis can and will find non-ballistic methods of shedding blood in the name of Allah. Other types of terrorists, too.
Question: does the government’s obvious impotence in the face of mass slaughter help or hurt the cause of American gun rights? Will firearms freedom fence straddlers survey the carnage and conclude that civilian guns are a good thing? Or will they turn to Big Brother to protect them, and consider gun control part of the package?
All depends on what country you live in, but here I believe that this kind of attack couldn’t possibly hurt gun rights…
But hey, I’ve been wrong before.
Isla Vista.
If this attack happened here, the focus would be on the Jihadi’s arsenal, despite the fact that he killed everyone with a commercial truck.
I got annoyed with a CNN video where they said you could hear “alleged gunshots” according to the lead for the video. No mention of the fact that it was the cops shooting the truck driver, as already established in other reports.
CNN, Communist News Network for Jihadi’s.
All news media has waived their right to say anything about guns. Anything.
You don’t get to “play” “media” protected by Amendment 1 while sh_tting on Amendment 2.
Further, you don’t get to invent a problem while ignoring a real one.
AND SAY muslim DAMMIT. http://www.infowars.com/media-blames-truck-not-terrorists-or-islam-for-nice-attack/
Some idiot over there said the attack proves that the gun restrictions are working because he used a truck and it would have been much worse otherwise.
I hear that claim made with regard to knives, clubs, and even small capacity magazines. Ban the evil black rifles and killers will still kill…..but at least it won’t be as high a body count…..
Cold comfort to the fallen.
Someone made that argument citing this truck, though? I know of no single killer who has murdered and maimed with a firearm as many people as this killer did with a truck. There was that Norwegian killer whose count was in 70+ range, if I recall correctly, but that included explosives, not just guns.
That incident first and foremost included cops who decided to stay back and wait for SWAT while the psycho was hunting down children and teenagers on a small island.
The psycho got so tired of the murdering that he called police in the middle and offered surrender, but the operator was so puzzled that she didn’t follow on his delusion and didn’t accept the surrender, leading to further deaths.
And look what just happened in Turkey a couple weeks ago. They had AK’s and suicide vests and still only killed around 50.
Except for the load of guns and explosives in the truck.
He killed more with the truck than he would have with guns.
So, yes, crap like this strengthens private carry and ownership of guns.
Coming: A truck almost that size full of explosives and many hundreds will die.
In the name of Allah the religion of Islam, of course…
The religion of pieces. Or parts. As in body parts.
It turns out he had one working revolver and several “imitation” or “toy” guns are reported.
Semi-automatic handgun, chambered in 7.65. Very common in Europe (had several ones in Italy, legally). Actually, this event is great for firearms rights, used by someone who knows how to use it and push it forward. But most likely they won’t. It’s positive because 1) Truck made dozens of instant deaths unlikely to happen even with an automatic gun (84 certified deaths but more incoming because of desperate wounded conditions) 2) he also had an illegally acquired (still unknown how) handgun which HE USED all along, killing at least one policeman with it. There’s plenty of useful subjects to use in favor of firearm rights in Europe, for the good spirited ones. But will they? No. They won’t. I COME from that shithole.
Tell that same idiot that Timothy McVeigh, an NRA member and prolific and expert gun owner (Honorably discharged Army soldier that briefly trained with Special Forces) decided to use a rented U-Haul truck to kill 168 innocent people probably because trucks are a more efficient way to kill people than having to shoot them one by one.
To clarify, McVeigh had been an NRA member while in the Army but was not currently a member. He also failed selection school for Special Forces so he never “trained” with any special operations troops
And he didn’t used a U-Haul truck. It was a Ryder. Just saying. Thank you.
He actually did use a gun. He got out of the truck and started shooting into the crowd and at police.
He managed to get three shots out of revolver while being wrestled in the truck buy a good unarmed samaritan, who has caused the truck to stop and allowed the cops to cut him down.
Funny how the vast majority of bullet holes in the windshield are on the side that doesn’t have a steering wheel. Were they trying to miss him on purpose?
Insider (yes, I know) was still reporting that the driver was shooting at people from the truck while moving. If you aren’t getting it wrong, you aren’t the lamestream media.
Early reports (read as “early wild speculations”) said that, but I have yet to hear it confirmed.
In fact I’ve heard that his weapons were fake (replicas). Again, no solid evidence yet.
I’ve read one report that the guns were fake also. Maybe suicide-by-cop was the last step of the plan to insure ‘martyrdom’, and he needed a fake gun or two to insure he didn’t get taken alive.
The truck wouldn’t have been so deadly if there wasn’t any guns inside. In fact, it was an AR-15 driving the truck. Islam is a religion of peace. Those poor muslims. – HuffPo
It should have zero effect. There will be no change in the anti-gunners’ attitudes about guns. Assault trucks on the other hand…
Ummmmm it took a group of people with rifles to murder 130 people over a length of time.It tool one guy in a truck to murder over 80 people and injure many more in a matter of minutes.
Ban high capacity trucks!!!!
Wouldn’t that truck have killed and injured all those people in a matter of seconds not minutes?
Actually, it could be days or weeks, as some victims suffer in hospitals before succumbing to their injuries, but I get your point. The die is cast in a matter of seconds.
20+ on life support, so the jihaddi just may make it over 100 for that attack…
I’m willing to bet that it will give people pause about the idea that gun control is an absolute against terrorism. Then again, people who debate such things don’t really like it when I mention that 9/11 was done with box cutters and Oklahoma City was done with a Ryder truck.
Liberals, leftists, etc, just hate guns and they are too emotionally invested to bother to start thinking rationally about the issue. Guns are evil and they must be banned. That is as far as they can think with this issue.
No amount of logic or evidence will ever make them change their minds.
Respectfully, I must disagree.
Remember that the idiots we hear on the news and in washington are NOT your typical liberals. They are agenda driven “higher tier” types.
Your average person is *VERY* susceptible to calm, friendly, rational discussion. Its takes tact, empathy, and a lot of patience, but people are willing to listen. Just show them that you care about THEM, no just putting a notch in your ideology belt.
I say help. I like to think the sheeple have now been reminded…it’s the evil people, not the tool. Sure as hell not going to ban trucks, or have background checks for trucks purchases/rentals.
Living in Europe (Germany), and being in France on Bastille Day [yesterday], I can guarantee you that the French people are fed up. Many are asking (screaming) for ways to arm themselves against the enemy within their borders.
Just like America, Europe is littered with the loud ~1% that say “banning guns will solve everything.” The European population isn’t stupid and shares the same distrust of their media [and government] as Americans do.
Keep the 2A alive!
That’s very nice to hear. Unfortunately, until they craft their own version of the 2nd Amendment and start allowing citizens to practice with, own, and carry personal firearms, it doesn’t mean jack.
The French gov will say tough shit and resettle more Muslims in there neighborhood…..
The French PM literally did say “We’ll have to learn to deal with these attacks”
2 and a half centuries ago his head would’ve been on a pike for saying that. These attacks keep happening and it may just go back to that.
That’s when .gov “representatives” need to start waking up to molotovs coming through their window at 2am.
Just like the polarization of SF, LA, Chicago, NYC in America… this is an issue with Paris (and the northern part of Nice – “across the train tracks” literally). Unfortunately, the voice of the French outside of these parts is often unheard.
Hollande is NOT very popular in France, at all. This guy has had MULTIPLE attacks on his watch. The people utterly hate him. The distaste I hear [in French] for their president makes Obama seem like a saint in America.
Add to that, I have read that there is a nascent “Frexit” movement in France…(my term, don’t know what it is actually called there).
“Many are asking (screaming) for ways to arm themselves against the enemy within their borders.”
Glad to hear it.
Noah, they need to DEMAND to be armed. Mass demonstrations, shut down transportation, whatever it takes.
They won’t just give it to you. You must demand it from them…
No, don’t demand it. Just do it. Get armed, then demand that government respect your right to stay armed.
That conversation always seems to go more amicably when both parties have guns. Why do you think we still have them in the U.S.? They’ll wine, complain, and demonize us, but they wont ever try to take them by force.
Living in the Czech Republic, having studied in Saarland on the German/French border and having many friends both in Germany and France, I had exactly opposite feeling. I was buffled by their refusal to even entertain notion of armed self defense, and mix of disbelief and contempt of the fact that I CC regularly in my home country.
Programmed responses.
People are scared of responsibility, so when government tells them “It OUR responsibility to keep you safe”, many *want* to believe that, no matter how demonstrably false it is.
Glad to hear, that Noah. I’ve read the people in Germany are past fed up, but their voice is certainly not being heard in the press over Merkel’s bleating.
Godspeed to you and your countrymen. You are indeed facing tough times.
No matter what the cabal of the usual CBS/NBC/ABC/PBS and Democrat Politicians have to say about what happened in Nice, the American people will look at this and the take away will be: Bad people who want to harm people will do so with whatever tool they have at hand, guns aren’t the problem.
It changes nothing. The anti-gun Left will spin this for more gun control if they can. Since the MSM has been harping about the truck and not the guns, they don’t have media backing at the moment — the optics are wrong. The Left is complaining right now along with BLM that the white people killed in Nice are stealing their thunder and are upset.
We will talk about guns next week during the GOP convention should something happen regarding riots or someone using their gun or when/if Trump/Pence open their mouths to speak. Regarding Nice, they are unable to find an opening at the moment.
BLM has been invading LGBT events lately in an attempt to regain lost ground in the Progressive victim stack. They have fallen well behind Muslims, Gays and illegal Hispanics.
Climate change is above BLM too.
My dream scenario at the DNC is this. Several leftist progressive sites have stated that the Bernie supporters will be attempting a Fart-in. Yep, they want to load up with beans and then let it out on the convention floor. Something apparently done in the 50’s and 60’s where Blacks would go into segregated theaters and gas the place out.
It starts with passing gas and then it is followed by a full on brawl between all the victim stacking groups culminating with Debbie Wasserman Schultz screaming while holding her nose and repeating the meme of the Left every time they do something bad — “that is not who we are! That is not who we are”
Anyway, I can dream, but the environment is ripe for this to happen right now.
No, it happened in a far away land that most gun control supporters couldn’t locate on a map.
I think a better question is: Does trying to tie Nice to the cause of firearms freedom, help or hurt the cause of firearms freedom?
Here. I don’t think it affects our gun rights one bit.
Now when they want to ban trucks and not the crappy drivers behind the wheel.
All hell will break out.
Beats me…the banners won’t get the connection. The French are cracking down on everyone’s “gun” freedom. Akbar did have guns but killed with a big-azz truck. I don’t think France WILL be saved.But we can be saved. For now-I see history coming to a crossroads and the return of JESUS CHRIST.
It’ll blunt current efforts, but the disarmers will be back once the dust settles and memories fade. Evil never expires. It can afford to bide its time and wait for the next opportunity.
Depends on who’s in power. The left won’t change their mind and I don’t see gun owners laying down their arms, so that leaves the unarmed middle. I think there is a large group of freedom minded people that have never considered firearms ownership that are rethinking it. Sales have reflected this and carry permit applications. At 50 I only owned guns since three years ago. But with a Hillary administration, the laws won’t go in the right direction.
That is true, it could see another spike in people buying in so that they can have a stake in their own defense.
I suspect that Europe will see a lot more permit applications too, relative to what they typically get.
The Nice attack doesn’t move the needle. A similar attack in Chicago or Los Angeles — which is hardly unlikely — will further expose the Democrat narrative for the lying agenda that it is.
Expound, pleas
Expound, please. I’m not disagreeing with you, Ralph.
If there is a truck attack or similar non-gun slaughter in the US, the Muslim-lover in the White House won’t be able to deflect attention toward guns and away from his Islamic buddies.
At that point, a lot of Americans will have to choose between trusting the Government or loving their children. Some will choose wisely.
I don’t think it will matter to the politicians but the number of guns being sold tells me that more than a few good people are interested in protecting themselves for the first time. That helps our cause.
Mitigating factors in this attack that contributed to deaths, outside of the obvious, are being in a crowd with no place to maneuver, wearing bad shoes for running like sandals and flip flops seen on many of the deceased, unaware of surroundings due to the show and the lack of regular people (or maybe irregulars) around you with the equipment to help such as firearms and medical gear.
Its not the norm for someone to have a RATTs in their pocket or a go bag in the car a hundred yards away over there for sure. No such thing as CCW that might have been able to stop him sooner. As Ted Nugent says “You Cant Do This In France”.
The rabid hoplophobes will not change their minds, but it may help with the “not involved” – those who think it can never happen here. I know that the Paris, Brussels, and San Bernardino Muslim terrorist massacres prompted me to carry every day, and the Muslim terrorist massacre in Orlando confirmed that decision. If I am going to be killed in the name of Allah, I would like to be able to take a few of the terrorists with me – like the heroes on Flight 93.
If the above statement offends anyone, I join numerous politicians in stating that “I regret that you were offended.” (That was not an apology.)
Basic Rahm Immanue; never let a crisis go to waste. The left will use any event to attack gun rights. After all, the killer had guns and grenades. Weapons of choice for POTG, right? When the caldera under Yellowstone Park blows, it will be blamed on gun owners, or the widespread damage will be blamed on all those gun owners whose ammunition exploded as a result of the caldera. There is no negative event one can imagine that the gun-grabbers will not attribute to guns. Just depends on if the timing seems to be useful.
Just remember that the morons you see at the Bloomburg press junket and on the “news” do NOT represent the typical liberal. Your average liberal probably has misgivings about guns, but is fairly open to a rational discussion if you are calm, patient, and empathetic.
From my captain’s chair, what I see is this: “Liberals”, of whatever label or persuasion, paint their opposites with a broad brush. With a broad brush shall “Liberals” also be painted.
On another note, I find it irredeemably illogical for “Liberals” to be gun owners, especially gun owners who carry openly or concealed. Why? Doing so marks one as responsible for their actions, for their safety….both anathema to “Liberals”. One cannot be a “Liberal” if one believes in personal responsibility.
My take is this:
In spite of the stringent gun laws in France, the killer had guns (and explosives) with him. Yet, in spite of *this*, his weapon of choice was a truck.
Limit, outlaw, ban whatever you wish, it won’t stop murder or terrorism. In many cases, it only serves to facilitate these acts — by way of making the law abiding public defenseless, easy targets.
Indeed. He could have stepped out of the truck and started shooting people and throwing explosives.
He chose to use the truck as a weapon.
Why?
Because in the end it is more effective in causing the mass casualties he desired than his small arms.
First, although it has been labeled as an act of terrorism by the French government, at this point there is no evidence linking this man to any jihadi organization or to self-radicalization. So let’s not jump to conclusions. For all we know, this man was upset by his recent divorce from his wife, a recent arrest and conviction over a road rage incident, and perhaps his failures in life, and that he decided to act out his rage against the French whom he believed to be responsible for his misfortune. Who knows. All I can say is that ISIS has not claimed this incident as one of their own, since they had no more direct connection to him than the Orlando shooter or the San Bernardino shooters, and as yet there has been no published suicide note or manifesto or tweet or search of computers to support any claim of allegiance to ISIS.
That said, the correct lesson to be learned from incidents like these is that there is no way for a government to stop a lone wolf killer, no matter how stringent its security, how many guns it bans, how many police check points it sets up. Unfortunately, driven by the public calling for greater security, and to fend off claims of “negligent security,” governments will increase “security,” threatening or removing essential freedoms, and edging ever closer to the creation of a tyrannical police state.
Sage advice to not jump to conclusions. It is very easy to in this case with a first name of “Muhammad”.
Not a lone wolf if he is a camelhadi stop calling them line wolf’s there is an entire pack of wolves filling their nation and you talk about line wolf….. you mean they bite separately…….
Update from Press TV: according to the reporter, only a small caliber handgun was found in the truck, and no explosives or grenades as earlier reported. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=58a_1468594054
Will this stop calls for more security? I don’t think so. Most people are sheep and are afraid. They want, they need, the government to protect them, and since they are all “law-abiding citizens,” they really don’t care how many rights are lost. And to maintain its popularity, the government will gladly, eagerly, comply with their demands.
Don’t trust anything reported within the first 72 hours.
Neither. We have decades of proof that anti-gunners aren’t swayed by facts, only emotion.
You’re supposed to PRETEND (contrary to abundant legal precedent, common sense and observed reality) that you don’t need a gun because the police will “protect” you as an individual.
You’d think that this would be a splash of cold water to the face of the anti-gun left that at some point, you just have to accept that there is evil in the world and no amount of fretting, legislation, or moral sanctimony can make it go away. Evil people do evil things. Regarding the topic of the this post, my guess is that overall it will help the cause of firearms freedom. No, some will never get on board, but I guarantee you that there are people out there who previously weren’t on our side who have awakened to the reality that the only person who can keep you safe is yourself.
does the government’s obvious impotence in the face of mass slaughter help or hurt the cause of American gun rights? Will firearms freedom fence straddlers survey the carnage and conclude that civilian guns are a good thing? Or will they turn to Big Brother to protect them, and consider gun control part of the package?
I believe the government’s obvious impotence helps American gun rights. Why?
This morning I watched Geraldo Rivera on Fox News admit that this terror attack in Nice has finally pushed him over the edge. He now wants U.S. Congress to formally declare war on ISIS and radical Islam and go on a major offensive. And while that isn’t support for armed citizens, it indicates a giant shift from, “Oh, those misguided terrorists just need big hugs.” to “It is time to exterminate them.” Once you have acknowledged a threat and acknowledged that the attackers need killing, it is a much smaller step to acknowledge that everyday people will sometimes have to be the ones killing the terrorists. That large of a sea-change in Geraldo Rivera makes me think that most people in the United States will finally see the light now.
This attack in Nice, France and the recent attack in Dallas, where a lone gunman killed 5 armed police officers and wounded 7 or 8 more, makes it abundantly clear that government agents cannot stop determined suicide attackers. No one can argue to the contrary any more. Furthermore, the Nice, France attacker did NOT use firearms which negates all claims that gun-control will hamper terrorists. Combined, these two incidents make reality so simple, undeniable, and plain-to-see that all but the most clinically insane will now support armed citizens, or at least be ambivalent about armed citizens.
Using a large truck does prove a few things. For one, there are always methods available to those intent on inflicting mass casualties. Banning and outlawing something has never been an effective deterrent and ultimately will NEVER achieve the desired goal. We have many examples of that throughout our history.
It doesn’t prove that gun control is working, but rather in my view that the perpetrators chose a more survivable method capable of inflicting casualties even quicker than a firearm. The reality is, firearms are not highly efficient at inflicting a large number of casualties.
I first heard about this on NPR (hey, it gets my blood pumping in the morning), they seemed almost annoyed that they had to report on this truck attack (which is almost certain to help Trump) and then got right back talking about BLM and Dallas, which was the story they needed to stop having to talk about Hillary being extremely careless.
The first article that I found about this attack yesterday was from Reuters. The article began by calling the attacker a “gunman.” Three words in, and the article was already focusing on guns–even though the primary method of attack was a vehicle.
The narrative continues.
My recent experience tells me that we have a serious advantage now to promote gun rights. Here is why …
For years I have been the lone voice gently asking my church to address our total lack of security. Making matters worse, concealed carry in church is illegal in my state unless you have permission and my church doesn’t like concealed carry … which means no carry in my church. Well, in the last 6 months, more people have asked my church to stop avoiding the topic and church leadership agreed to create a security committee. That alone is a big deal and signals that even conservative Christians who often tend to be passive with respect to security are recognizing what we are facing.
Since no one was interested, I volunteered to lead the committee. Here is the interesting part. When one of the church leaders asked me informally to lead the committee, she mentioned that the focus would be about locking doors and involving any church members who work in law enforcement. She also said that the security committee would NOT (as in thou shalt not) involve people carrying concealed handguns. Then the attack in Dallas occurred. Then I formally appeared before church leadership to get the ball rolling. Interestingly, having armed people at church was now something to possibly consider. Just days before, armed people at church was taboo.
I think we have an opportunity here. We should make the most of it.
Uncommon -you should hang out at 1st Baptist, Hammond, IN. Most armed up place I’ve ever been to. Guns are ENCOURAGED from the pulpit. Hang in there…
Did you see Dr. Ablow’s editorial on Foxnews.com this morning? He tackled this very question eloquently.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/07/15/bastille-day-bloodbath-in-nice-proves-that-gun-control-advocates-are-liars.html
The average guy/gal on the street may be realizing (if they hadn’t already) that this world can be a dangerous place and any talk of reducing our ability to defend ourselves just doesn’t make sense.
The average rabid anti-gunner/gun grabber will always find some convoluted way to spin any situation against guns.
“..Will firearms freedom fence straddlers survey the carnage and conclude that civilian guns are a good thing? Or will they turn to Big Brother to protect them, and consider gun control part of the package?”
Yes.
Many will clamor for Big Brother to do more to protect them. “Do Something!” to protect those like us.
Many will see this as there being crazy in the world and we each are ultimately responsible for our own defense from the crazy.
Both in almost equal measure so the net effect is near zero.
I guess the libtards need to stage a sit in on Bobtail trucks next. Can’t legislate the crazy.
Why were the streets around the festival not closed off to traffic? I personally try to stay away from large gatherings like this but any i have seen or been to have always had police on every corner and streets around the area closed. It would not stop a truck right away but it would cause a delay and can be addressed a lot quicker.
I heard that the streets were closed-off. Undeterred, the attacker casually pulled up to a checkpoint, stated that he had ice cream (presumably for the celebration), and away he went.
Terrorists can kill more people faster with a motor vehicle or explosives.
Makes guns look irrelevant.
It’s just the politicians who choose the easy way to prove that “they are doing something”
After Charlie Hebdo, the Italian government issued a strong and clear message to the terrorists by issuing a law compelling all Carcanos and Garands to be modified in order to have a capacity of max 5 rounds.
Yes, my dear friends, that sixth round in a Carcano’s magazine (not to mention the three more in a Garand) were the source of all evils.
Now Italians feel safe….
They’re going to have to write a law encouraging safe storage of trucks when the owner is not inside. I see a cottage industry forming of ‘easy access truck-safes’ now with fingerprint ID
Just as Obama and the liberal Democrat’s have not learned that ISIS want’s us dead. Period. You have not learned that Obama and the liberal, socialist Democrat’s want to dismantle the 2nd amendment. Period. There is no appeasement. There is no compromise. There is no changing their minds. No event or series of events will achieve any of those things.
I don’t think it effects gun rights arguments much at all. We’ve argued for years that if they can’t get guns terrorists will turn to other methods. This shows that to be correct. In fact, Inspire (ISIS propaganda magazine) suggested this method of attack recently by showing an F150 with the caption “You don’t need a gun, you don’t need a bomb, just get in your truck and mow the infidels down like grass”.
I’m sure someone has already figured out that you can run people over and then set off a OKC sized bomb that’s loaded with shrapnel and very likely kill a lot more people.
The point is that the weapon really doesn’t matter, if we control one, they’ll just change to another. We need to control these people and kill the ones that hold this sort of warped ideology.
I think the Nice attack might help us in the legalization and open carry of bazookas and anti-tank guns. Maybe someday I can legally own a fully functional M4A3E8 Sherman tank with 76mm HVAP ammo.
An 88mm anti-tank gun would be nice also.
You already can. It’s been done.
Does it matter? And long as the liberal dipshits in America and elsewhere simply think you can “hug and love it out” with radical Islam, everyone is at risk. You have to stomp radical Islam and supporters of Sharia Law into the ground. They have no desire to become part of a peaceful society.
Europe brought this on themselves and their citizens with decades of coddling Muslims. Then, when France took a stand in places like Mali the Muslims struck back because the French homeland is a soft target with a disarmed population. The USA needs to take a lesson. Arm the populace and close the borders.
What a stupid question. Firearms were only used to kill the terrorist. Why try to spin this into American discource? Waste of space
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