“According to Sgt. Todd Eby, the gunman walked in at about 4:20 p.m. with a pistol grip shotgun,” the Detroit Free Press reports. “Unprovoked, he just started shooting, said Eby, who was sitting at his desk when the gunfire erupted.” Never mind how the gunman got his gun. Set aside the shooter’s motivation. And forget about the security arrangements at the police station’s front door. Ask yourself this: were the four Detroit police officers wounded in the attack psychologically prepared for a shotgun-wielding madman? How many officers in the cop shop had ever thought to scope-out the station’s concealment or cover? How many sat at desks with their back to the door? As we’ve said before, armed attacks are nasty, brutish and short. If you don’t see it coming, chances are you’re too late. And maybe even then.
“According to Sgt. Todd Eby, the gunman walked in at about 4:20 p.m. with a pistol grip shotgun,”
So did the pistol grip give the shells more killing power or something? I’m not seeing the reason for mentioning that other than to make it sound scary for ignorant people.
Wait ’til a criminal uses a Kel-Tec KSG . . .
But how did he kill/maim anyone without a hi-cap mag? (sarcasm)
It was probably an extended magazine shotgun. Prepare for calls to limit shotgun magazines to 3 shells. After all, who really needs more than three shells in their shotgun?
Really guys?
Four cops get shot, and here we are armchair-quarterbacking and making jokes about hicap mags and using a more efficient gun? I am sure the commander who got shot in the back will value the suggestion to never face away from the door, or the female officer who got shot should now wear two vests instead of one.
I read this page daily. I usually agree with the comments. But this whole post and the responding comments exudes a total lack of empathy and class that antis trolling for a reason to get on us would love.
Maybe we should find a nice anti-gunner to sit with tomorrow at lunch to show some unity, would that make you happy?
As soon as I read the part where the guy made a point to say “pistol grip” I lost that PC feeling running up my leg that you apparently have.
That is some pretty closed minded shit (ironically, or not, depending on your point of view, exactly what we accuse our rivals of being). Heaven forbid that be a member of your family or a close friend. As we all know, those of us who imagine to be tactically inclined would never allow ourselves to fall below condition orange. Forget I said anything, I am not going to get into a pissing match on the internet. I will let the arm chair commandos get back to it.
Now, c’mon boys, stop fighting among yourselves. You’ll really give the antis a leg up.
Situational awareness is a good issue to raise when looking at this shooting. One thing I wondered is did the female police officer always wear a vest in the station, or was she on her way out on patrol or something. If she always wore it, that should count for something on the preparedness scale.
On my blog today I couldn’t resist pointing out how the shooter didn’t select a gun-free zone for his rampage. This is something we often hear from you guys and it’s not always the case.
The other point I made is, which touches on the situational awareness question, in that gun-rich environment he was able to shoot 4 people before being stopped. The only reason he didn’t kill some of them was luck or poor marksmanship. This talks to your continually claiming that law-abiding gun owners can prevent crimes like this or stop them quickly. This is not true in most cases, unless by chance you’re positioned just right.
Apparently SOMEONE was positioned just right enough to kill him. Hmmmm.
He probably would have killed even more people had no one stopped him.
The commander who got shot in the back WILL never sit facing away from the door, not anymore is my guess. I don’t think two vests would do much help but someone there in that station should have been aware. I wasn’t there and I can only go by the news like anyone else. It is clear that these guys were caught off guard all the same. The results speak for themselves. These are our police, our protectors (many think), the ones to catch the bad guys. Why are they so vulnerable? I, before this, could think of nowhere less likely to be more dangerous for a crook to do this then a police station… maybe an army base? With all the news and reports of the inaccuracy and poor training officers receive nowadays maybe this will be the eye opener.
I feel for the families of these people. I think it is sad that this happened.
First of all, my prayers go out for the speedy and full recovery of all the wounded officers. It is fortunate that none of their injuries are said to be life-threatening. Whatever disadvantage the officers initially found themselves at, they reacted decisively and undoubtrdly saved more lives.
Even in Detroit, our police should not have the ‘condition red’s mentality of a Fallujah checkpoint. Too many citizens would get gunned down for failing to show their papers…
Cops catch criminals. Criminals don’t like to be caught. Some of those criminals who are caught are extremely violent. Any cop who doesn’t prepare himself for extreme violence—especially in Detroit on duty—is in more danger than he or she needs to be.
Let me be clear: there is no justification for shooting someone unless it’s in self-defense. Period. My sympathies to the police wounded in this attack. As always, TTAG strives to learn lessons from tragedy, to lessen the possibility and severity of future violence. Where possible.
“Even in Detroit, our police should not have the ‘condition red’s mentality of a Fallujah checkpoint. Too many citizens would get gunned down for failing to show their papers…”
I personally think this is the thing that needs to be done. I think armed officers randomly asking anyone in the street for their identificaton would cut down on a lot of needless deaths and crime. I think with what is happening here recently that maybe a more European approach to law enforcement is needed.
Maybe we should all have numbers tattooed on our arms. Then when the police stop us on the street, if the number doesn’t match our papers they could take us to some kind of detention facility, or “camp,” if you will.
I don’t know about all that now. It seems to be working in removing illegal immigrants. Why not have it for the citizenry? Whats wrong with a cop asking for your ID?
As someone who has a close friend who works law enforcement in Detroit, I feel for what these guys live with at their workplace. The stories I’ve heard are frightening in their brutality and sheer lack of humanity. Sadly, this type of thing is not so much a surprise in Detroit. As one poster said, thank God it wasn’t a school or something.
I was happy to hear that all the officers survived and hopefully they can all return to work soon. I’m waiting to hear from our buddy MAGOO, who thinks all gun owners are paranoid and that nothing bad will happen to us. This unfortunate lesson shows us all how anyone can be attacked at anytime. I not trying to be insensitive and JR is going to think I’m being a smartass (which I really am) but I have a nine round mag for one of my semi auto shotguns(no pistol grip I don’t like them).
Hi Joe!
Thanks for thinking of me. Where did you get the idea that I believe that “all” gun owners are paranoid? I’m a gun owner. Am I paranoid? Please check no.
While it is technically true that “anyone can be attacked at any time,” it’s also a poor and, dare we say it, myopic assessment of the potential dangers surrounding us each day. While you are on the lookout for shotgun-wielding lunatics, please don’t also forget to look both ways before crossing the street. Realistically, if you are a male of middle age, salt and deep-fried foods represent a greater daily threat to you than armed attackers. Semper vigilo, Joe.
“However, a nice little cottage industry has sprouted up that, unintentionally or not, serves to prey on peoples’ race and class fears and social insecurity, whip them into state of blind paranoia, and then exploit it by selling them a bunch of silly-ass hand-cannons and other horseshit they don’t need and will not make them one bit safer.”
http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/01/robert-farago/why-michael-moore-is-wrong-suburban-home-invasions-happen/#comments
You come pretty damn close to a Fudd if you ask me.
Sorry Magoo, I thought you hated guns, my bad.
One has to stop and think about the motive of the shooter. It seems clearly obvious to me that short of being completely deranged, this person had a death wish. I mean if you are going to commit suicide by cop, then what better way than to go guns blazing into a police station. It will be interesting to hear the details on the attacker as they are released – did he leave a note, history of mental issues, was he a loner, or the neighbor next door?
This was a case of suicide by cop if I ever saw one.
Shooter went there expecting to die and just wanted to take as many with him as possible. If his primary goal had been body count he would have hit a mall or schoolyard similar to several other past cases.
Such attacks in police stations, gun shows, or gun shops are so rare that any occurence is a notable anomaly. Hell, they’ve made a number of movies and TV shows about this very thing simply because it’s so unusual.
As for the response, cops were “at home” and felt safe because this so seldom happens. Shooter was met with an armed response as soon as reality set in. Just how long and how many dead would we be looking at if they all hadn’t been armed?
The shooter was awaiting sentencing for — believe it or not — a double homicide! What was he doing on the streets?
Amazing. But we don’t need guns to defend ourselves. The courts and rules do that for us, right? What a joke.
Magoo said you should worry more about salt and deep-fried foods, that’s true. But guys like you Buuurr, should probably give meteorites a thought or two too. They’re no joke, man.
Good one, Mike. Remind me to take jibes from random guys on the Internet to heart. Thanks for the valuable input as well. You always come through with an intelligent argument/statement.
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