Here’s definitive proof that a good guy with a gun doesn’t always stop a bad guy with a gun. That’s the headline malingering over an opinion piece by CNN Editor At (Is?) Large Chris Cillizza [not shown]. And it goes a little something like this . . .
There was a good guy with a gun just outside the school when the bad guy with a gun started murdering people. The good guy with the gun wasn’t the solution. He didn’t stop it.
What the Parkland school shooting exposes is the fallacy in LaPierre’s argument: This is not a simple problem. And it does not have a simple solution like arming more people.
Not every good guy with a gun is going to stop a bad guy with a gun. Why did Peterson stay outside of the school when the shooting started? And why did he remain there even as the shooter was inside actively murdering people? Was it cowardice? Did he freeze? Was he waiting for backup? Was he told not to enter the building? Something else? . . .
Simply saying “to stop a bad guy with a gun, it takes a good guy with a gun” is a totally insufficient way to deal with a problem as complex as why we have so many of these mass shootings (unlike the rest of the world) and how we can work to ensure they happen far less and cause less loss of life.
It’s also not true. Just look at what happened nine days ago at Stoneman Douglas High School.
Do you think anyone’s picking up what Cillizza is putting down? That the police officer’s failure to use their firearms in defense of innocent life is “definitive proof” that teachers shouldn’t be armed? And that the idea that any armed civilian can stop a spree killer is some kind of NRA con?
Or did the inexcusable inability of Deputy Peterson [above right] to stop the homicidal rage of Nikolas Cruz [above left] serve as a wake-up call to Americans who truly believed the police are the best bet to protect their children?
Did Peterson’s inaction opened some eyes to the life-saving importance of their own natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms?
I’d say the point at which the deputy committed dereliction of duty he stopped being a good guy with a gun.
Wow, right out of the gate with the quality post!
It makes me uncomfortable to armchair this guy too much, and frankly, I don’t want him to kill himself over this, but… on the other hand, it seems pretty bad.
It’s looking like a lot of the guys with guns we’re taking a “wait and see” attitude to this mass murder.
I will point out that there didn’t seem to be this much outrage and hand-wringing when it was 50 gay folks bleeding out in Orlando while the cops did… stuff… for an hour.
This ex deputy and his pals would “armchair” your every action when ever they get the chance. Citizens have every right to judge the actions of tax parasites like this guy. If they don’t like it then they are more than welcome to quit and find honest employment.
I was trying to be nice, but… yes. We are all one cop’s bad mood from a felony rap.
To quote the movie “Blade Runner”:
“If you’re not cop, you’re little people.”
That’s how the cops feel about you.
Kill himself over this?
Hmmm…..Heavens to Betsy, what a dreadful idea….
In 2002, three robbers walked into a bank in Norfolk, Nebraska and promptly murdered four employees and one customer and wounded another customer outside the bank. A few days before, a state trooper had arrested one of the robbers for illegally carrying a concealed weapon. The trooper failed to discover that the gun was stolen because he transposed digits as he entered its serial number into his computer. Without an additional charge for the stolen gun, the robber was able to post bail. The trooper committed suicide the day after the murders.
Three hours actually, after the first cop to engage him left and went back outside. Yep…Florida has some really good cops dont’cha know………
He’s not going to kill himself.
He’s going to sit on a beach in Aruba, watching his 401k and drinking pina coladas.
No 401k, he has a pension where he takes home 75% of his salary averaged over it’s 5 highest years.
How do you teach anyone to ignore their fear and run into the teeth of the enemy? The only programs available for that are with the military. To my knowledge there are no similar training programs today that would teach a civilian what do in situations like this. That is referencing both being on the outside looking in and being on the inside and fighting your way out. Even if you are Audie Murphy the reality is that not everybody is going home.
If there are reality based training programs I for on would love to know and learn!! The course I have attended have been weekend courses dealing with weapons handling; not saying they aren’t important.
Let me start with being completely honest: I don’t know if I would have run into that building. I would like to think I would, but then again it’s possible those four deputies thought they would, too.
I think the first step in making it possible is dropping “unthinkable” from your mindset. I think if you’re mentally prepared for the possibility, then you’ll be less likely to freeze. My impression is that there was a lot of denial in the Sheriff’s department around this kid and that put them behind the curve, mentally.
Thank you.
“Let him not vow to walk in the dark, who has not seen the nightfall,” as Elrond said in a Tolkien novel.
If three unarmed teachers attempted to protect the students there is no excuse for an armed sworn officer to stand aside.
When you sign your name on the line, take the paycheck provided by the tax payers and take the privilege of the authority the job provides, then you agree to ignore your fear. If you can’t quit.
I guess he thought protecting a school was a desk job.
If you take the kings shilling…….
Its a Gun Free Zone. What could possibly go wrong?
The most effective training program is a father that makes you do stuff that you are certain is going to leave you crippled or dead, and puts enough fear into you that you will do it anyway. If you die while doing your duty, there is no higher use to which you could have put your life. Doesn’t mean you don’t get nervous, scared, and squirrelly. But you keep moving forward.
Back when Charles Whitman shot up the University of Texas, guys got their hunting rifles out of their cars and pinned him down long enough for the police to get up into the tower, and some guys volunteered to go up in the tower with the police. This “I just want to go home tonight” mentality is why Western civilization is crumbling.
+5,000,00! Dead on Brother!
Mr Crum was ex military a Tail gunner.
I wonder if ex military police officers would be less likely to freeze in situations like this.
Here is a bit about him, ignore the tone of the writing.
https://apps.texastribune.org/guns-on-campus/allen-crum-helped-stop-ut-tower-shooter-charles-whitman/
There are literally hundreds of places that teach force on force to civilians in the US.
A listing of places with force on force training please.
Teachers already run toward the enemy when they they hear fights break out. You have no idea what form that fight might take when you turn that corner. Could be just fists, but possibly knives, maybe even a gun. So your doubts have already been dispelled by everyday occurrences in public schools.
Moreover, our entire premise is shaky, if not faulty. The most likely scenario of an armed teacher would be to close and lock the classroom door, barricade it, turn out the lights, and remain quiet with the kids away from the door. That’s already the practice. All that would change from that would be the teacher aiming his or her self-defense sidearm directly at the door and waiting for the shooter to break through. Then waste him.
Scary as hell, no doubt, but it’s hardly the same thing as helicoptering in to Osama bin Laden’s compound and going room to room against armed terrorists.
Most parents will instinctively rush into danger to save their children. Motivation matters more than training.
This is inexcusable.
Quotes from a EMT that was on the scene:
https://twitter.com/BrianEntin/status/967462188888838144
Unbelievable.
The *problem* it seems, is that it isn’t *their* kids in that school that is under attack.
EMTs with carry permits, call ’em ‘combat medics’ may be an option.
I know Nick Leghorn as an EMT was uncomfortable with being unarmed…
I agree EMTs should be allowed to have their CC pistol on them, but fighting is not their job. Too many EMS guys are already mallninjas.
LEO’a are locked in two thoughts. Post crime investigation and not allowing others into the kill zone. Problem is it’s not a gunfight but an ambush and shows law enforcements slow react in changing situational mindset.
The only response to ambush is to move through it while firing a weapon. Return fire shifts the murderer’s mindset off unarmed students and onto the counter attacker. Which open time for students to clear the kill zone.
For MSM to claim unarmed teacher won’t work is projection of themselves. Defending themselves is abhorrent to the collective. Better a few sacrificed while collecting their coin than getting into the arena of lawfully defending themselves.
I heard (not sure if it’s true) there was also 2-3 other “law enforcement” hiding behind their cars while kids were being murdered.
When seconds count, the cops are no longer just minutes away. These cops cowered behind cars, waiting for the next town over to show up.
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/02/23/dereliction-of-duty-four-broward-county-deputies-remained-outside-florida-high-school-neighboring-police-dept-were-first-into-building/
Aaron Feis stood in the gap absorbing bullets to protect kids. Who was the good guy? As God is my witness, I wish he’d had his gun. Whoever took it away is almost as guilty as the shooter
The government response from the FBI on down to the Broward cops was an abject failure. And, they’re asking us trust the government to keep us safe? If I didn’t already think that “Government is not your friend”, this would definitely tip me over the edge.
Will that scenario convince us to disarm? I think the NRA is going to get a LOT of new members. And Enterprise and Hertz are going to rent a lot fewer cars.
I think it will get worse, too. Keep your powder dry.
Gun hater: “what do you need a gun for?”
Reasonable person: “self defense.”
Gun hater: “that’s what the police are for!!!”
Reasonable person: “you mean like when that deputy waited till the shooter was done in FL?”
…or in Las Vegas.
…or Miami?
My friend who is an SRO (armed School Resource Officer) was said he was sick to here one officer did not close to engage. However, we may be missing the point.
Going in is one thing.
BEING IN and fighting to get out alive is another.
This is why we need a few volunteer, trained teachers and administrators.
End the “gun free zone” myth.
Have armed school resource officer when possible.
Train and arm a few volunteer teachers, staff and administrators to conceal carry. F.A.S.T.E.R. http://fastersaveslives.org/
Practice lockdowns and counter ambush skills.
Learn trauma first aid. https://stopthebleedingcoalition.org/
Save Lives.
It’s not proof of anything but it certainly doesn’t help our cause. Just like most things in life, it’s a numbers game. Have a single teacher that is armed and in most cases little changes. Have 20-30% of teachers armed and that’s a whole different ball game.
Hopefully this blows over like Vegas/Sandy Hook etc and people can move on to squabbling over other ridiculous issues.
Stay armed and stay safe POTG.
I would strongly disagree. The anti-gun crowd constantly tells us we don’t need to protect ourselves, because that’s the job of trained law enforcement professionals. Well, here there was a trained law enforcement professional and 3 other deputies who responded and they all hid behind their cars. To me, that makes the case for people providing their own protection.
Exactly. The real take away from this tragedy is even with a paid good guy on site with a gun in hand you can still not count on anybody but yourself.
Having your own, on body firearm, is the only thing that makes sense. Even if the pols banned all firearms today there are literally millions of untraceable firearms in circulation and uncounted millions of tons of ammo.
It would be generations, if ever, before a total gun ban could even begin to work.
And for those that want tougher vetting for gun purchases. Florida proved one thing for sure. You cannot trust the system to work properly.
He wasn’t a “paid good guy”. He was a paid government employee. Big difference.
Because the gun is inanimate, it does not have the power to confer goodness or badness.
Goodness or badness is defined by the action*. In this case, there was no action. Therefore neither good nor bad.
*This is the problem today, most people think that the correct set of beliefs is what makes a person good or bad. It isn’t.
It’s a good example that helps differentiate the role of an armed teacher and the role of an SRO or cop. It highlights the reality that cops arent 100% reliable and that when somebody is outside of the fray they have a choice to go in. When somebody is already in the fray right now their only choice is to be a meatshield.
It’s also a good opportunity to school the ignorant on the realities of personal or home defense. Nobody should be seeking to engage an attacker. You barricade, call 911 and lay in wait armed.
There’s a lot of reality here to be dumped on the anti’s heads. All of their fantasies about police protectors or gung-ho teachers flipping slo-mo Matrix style in hallways are effectively crushed here. If reality saturates hyperbole won’t stand a chance.
A coward cop(s)is not a rallying cry. He(they) got home safe. The late coach as an unarmed security guard NOT SO MUCH…😩😖😡
As is typical with uniformed people we should, I guess, in this situation just jump to an ill gotten conclusion. WE have NO idea what “the good guy” with the gun was thinking, ordered or, yes, afraid to do. The only thing we can garner from the report this moron wrote is that he is a moron.
MY OPINION: The NRA course for Concealed Carry is a farce…there I said it. Most LEO today have never been faced by a man with a gun..my beautiful wife had to take the NRA course. We have been married for 43 years. In that 43 years she has been trained by ME how to handle, fire, clear, clean and be safe…she has also been taught how to engage a hostile target and use her firearm. After the NRA course all she did for a week was complain about the lack of what she considered to be any proper instruction and in fact taught things completely different than what I had trained her to do. Disclosure: 30 years USMC, Scout/Sniper instructor, Distinguished Master 46X with handguns.
Having a gun no more makes you capable of engaging an enemy than owning a piano makes you concert pianist.
Lets see what happens before we cut this guys balls off.
Armin teachers? TERRIBLE IDEA! They can’t teach so now the left thinks they can make them shooters…watch what happens.
Really? It doesn’t matter one damn bit what he was thinking. He had an obligation in his chosen profession (and that obligation and the supposed “risk” that comes with it is something those “heroes” in blue and their pathetic boot lickers love to lecture us plebes about), a obligation which he failed to uphold, and innocents dies as a result. Lock his ass up!
I took a concealed carry course in Florida (not NRA) where shooting is not required. The company giving the class nevertheless took us to the range. 10 people besides me lined up to shoot 3 rounds at a standard silhouette target with a 10 inch circle at center mass at 7 yards. Of the 30 rounds fired by my classmates perhaps 1/2 hit the silhouette and only 2 (besides my 3). In center mass. All of those people would get a Florida CCW permit. None of them had reasonable proficiency with their weapon. Given the performance of the Broward County Sherrif’s Department, how much can we expect of teachers who are armed ? This event shows that we can only rely on ourselves for protection. The police cannot or will not make us safe and how much do you trust the good guy with a CCW. We are on our own most of the time and must preserve laws that allow us to defend OURSELVES.
Aaron Feis was there, barring the door. He was an NRA member and owned firearms that he was required to leave at home. It doesn’t have to work every time for one time to be a godsend. Not every teacher has to be armed . No teachers armed was a key ingredient the recipe for this disaster.
arming teachers, I don’t know? Some reasons not to; one, most teachers are lefties and may never train enough to protect the kids, two, it takes a hell of a lot of training to keep the edge and three, not to ballsies in the hero field. I know one at the school was, but how many there in school would do the same thing. Not many I think. I would better think a military man without law enforcement training!
It was a high-school. Maybe FL is different than AZ, but I can’t think of a high school around here without a good half dozen ex military who are teachers. Got their 20 in, drawing their .mil pension, and are teaching as a second income.
I even know one AFSOC guy who teaches AP history.
Sounds like you taught your wife well in the use of firearms. No doubt, the NRA course was sub-par as compared to what you taught her. My NRA course was basically an introduction to firearms, not intended to make a Green Beret out of me. That being said, I don’t think teachers need to be trained to the level of an Army sniper or even your wife. That would be nice, but is unnecessary. The news and gun blogs are full of stories of people who probably never had a day of firearm training, but they successfully defended themselves or others with their weapons.
Teachers and school administrators in a shooting situation can step up to the bat if need be, just like some granny pulling a .38 special out of the nightstand drawer and stopping an attacker. If they turn coward, can’t shoot straight, use wrong tactics, etc, then they join the ranks of highly trained professionals like police officers and soldiers who screw up when the $hit hits the fan. Some or most will ante up, do their best, and the chips will fall where they may.
Oh, and using a firearm well does not take nearly as much skill as playing a piano well. Poor analogy. I can’t play a piano, but can use a firearm well enough to defend myself.
not to pee in your cheerios there Master Sergeant or Gunnery Sergeant (whichever one you got kind of a mash up goin on in your name there) but I don’t think any CCW permit training really prepares a person for an actual armed confrontation whereas police training SHOULD equip the officer will the will and the skill to eliminate a hostile threat, by my count there were 4 officers outside huddled behind cover, each officer has a radio and could communicate with each other. Now is it too improbable to ask those 4 individuals to function as a team and enter the school? Granted they aren’t a SWAT team and perhaps that’s a failure in police training to respond to these situations. They may not have any sort of MOUT training or training in clearing a building and they may have been waiting for SWAT to arrive. If that was the case, then yes we definitely need to address that lack of training in our standard rank and file beat cops and SROs.
Now as for the teachers, no one is saying they need to be friggin SpecialDeltaRangerAirborneSniperReconSEALS they need to just be good enough to barricade away from the door and cover the fatal funnel with accurate deadly fire should a threat cross the threshold. I will admit they need to be slightly better trained than what a standard CCW permit class gets but they don’t really need to be up to par with say your standard Army or Marine Infantry platoon. Even then it shouldn’t be every single teacher it should only be the ones who choose to undergo the extra training and can provide their own gear so as to lessen the financial burden on an already overtaxed education budget.
Now for the issue with CCW permits themselves, aside from being unconstitutional in my view, the training in order to actually obtain one is a joke. It really doesn’t prepare you to deal with an active shooter all it does is make sure you have some familiarity with your gun and can at least hit what you’re aiming at, past that it is the permit holder’s responsibility to obtain further, more advanced training. The CCW is just the minimum requirement to wear a gun under your clothes, after that it’s up to you (the permit holder) to obtain the skills to deal with the threat(s) you may encounter.
But that’s not the narrative being put forward. That narrative is that armed teachers will seek and engage, not shelter and defend. If the training their getting is CCDW level training, then they better stick with locking the door and hoping the bad guy doesn’t come in. I don’t see anyone talking about giving them anything like the training needed to hunt down the bad guy, and who’s going to take on the liability, training cost, ongoing training cost.
The cost to such a program is a big barrier, a capital improvement project to up armor the doors and windows and sheltering in place is probably more practical, because there is really no truly safe place where someone actively trying to kill you won’t have some success, since you probably wouldn’t know until after the first few have already been gunned down. Then once you’re armored in, they set fire to the school and wait for people to run out. That’s why first responders are critical.
And that’s not even to mention cars as weapons, or IED’s, if they want to kill people, they will. To live in a free society means you will have some risks.
1st responders are critical. That is why teachers and administrators should be the 1st responders in school shootings, just like we minions should be our own 1st responders in our homes.
I said “Now as for the teachers, no one is saying they need to be friggin SpecialDeltaRangerAirborneSniperReconSEALS they need to just be good enough to barricade away from the door and cover the fatal funnel with accurate deadly fire should a threat cross the threshold. I will admit they need to be slightly better trained than what a standard CCW permit class gets but they don’t really need to be up to par with say your standard Army or Marine Infantry platoon.” See? No mention of really super advanced training no room clearing just sittin in a corner covering the doorway.
So they should be trained to the level of…a deputy, since they’re not trained room clearing search and destroy either, that’s what SWAT does, so that’s what the teachers should be trained for, equal to a deputy sheriff.
I’m just trying to figure out what the expectation for these “Highly trained, gun adept, teachers/coaches would solve the problem instantly, before police arrive,” Because all I hear is give them a gun and… its much more complicated than just passing out CCDW’s.
I have stood in a stall at shooting range the last few years firing approximately 12,000 – 14,000 rds at stationary paper targets. That has been valuable practice but pales in comparison to participating for a few weeks in US Practical Shooting Association matches at a local indoor range where shooters have to draw, maneuver through a course, change mags, acquire multiple targets, shoot accurately, re-holster, and always keep your firearm pointed down range. For the average CCW person or school teacher, this type of practice is excellent preparation for encountering a bad guy. Most of us don’t have $500 a pop and and the time to get re-occurring professional training, nor do I think we absolutely need it – it is good, but not 100% necessary.
NRA does not have a concealed carry course. A they have a basic pistol course which is more bullseye shooting that is taught to scouts and new gun owners and “Protection Inside the Home” which covers handguns and long guns, and finally “Protection Outside the Home” which does cover concealed carry, but is not a concealed carry class. All of these are very basic courses. The LEO courses they offer are much more advanced I have heard.
No but their Basic Pistol class is actually used by many states as the standard, and that is significantly better than some, Florida for instance.
Most of a CCW class is reading a powerpoint of the applicable state laws. In Ky you then shoot a course of fire, and no one actually looks at either the written, or the shooting “test”, they get filed in the circular file cabinet.
So if we’re going to have teachers be relied upon to be first responders, they need a hell of a lot more training than that.
“In Ky you then shoot a course of fire, and no one actually looks at either the written, or the shooting “test”, they get filed in the circular file cabinet.”
This is an out and out lie.
I’m not COMBAT trained but I have 55 years of firearms experience. I teach the NRA basic pistol classes, I find that my class (4 hours classroom, 8 hours on the range) produces marksman. I cannot teach combat shooting, but my students if they get the shot will be accurate. If we arm teachers, I would expect they get some stress training. expensive, but worth it.
Let’s see, my wife just went, and yes, no review, I got my KY CCDW when we moved across the river, and zero review, in fact the certificates were printed and passed out two hours in, not after the class.
You can shill for the training, but its absolutely a farce.
His, the sheriff’s and his three buddies that hung out outside while the shooting was happening. All five of them need to go up against a wall.
MasterGunz,
Operating a handgun is pretty darned simple: point at your attacker, squeeze the trigger, and repeat as necessary. That’s it. Virtually everyone (like 98% or more of adults) can do that without any training. Furthermore, virtually everyone (like 98% or more of adults) can accurately shoot a human-sized target at 10 feet away without any prior training.
So, your claim that people need a bunch or training to defend themselves from close engagements is false, especially when the defender has 10 seconds or more prior warning as would be the case in many mass casualty events.
Now, if we expect armed teachers to be able to put head shots on moving attackers at 50 feet while the teacher is moving, that will take a decent amount of training/practice. Nevertheless, even without such practice, how could that armed teacher fare any worse than being unarmed and waiting for a spree killer to execute them at close range?
Never let perfect be the enemy of good.
Sadly, because the populace at large is so easily led astray, this deffenitively hurts them. The irony is, that this totally validates what those of us in the “good guy with a gun” camp have long prostelated. You cannot rely kn someone else for your own saftey. This was a trained Police officer, and he said screw it. Just remember, the lefties say we dont need guns as the police will protect you…
Bear in mind that this is how it was framed by CNN, or in other words, there’s about 30 people in airports waiting for their delayed flight being ‘easily led astray’.
I believe Deputy Peterson’s (and the additional deputy’s) inexplicable cowardice in the face of duty speaks volumes about the failure of Government to protect. The situation was clear; active shooter protocol and officers’ duty is clear; and unfortunately the failure at all levels of Government is clear.
That we’re responsible for our own safety is also clear.
It’s all about how you frame the argument: you can’t count on the COPS to keep you safe vs. Good guy with a gun…I am going with the first one.
Not in Florida. GOP gun control will pass the FL Senate. Only hope is temperance in the House.
He wasn’t a good guy with a gun. He was security theater.
+1 There was no good guy with a g un in Parkland that day.
From my POV, this is further argument *for* armed teachers.
There is no question about whether to get in the fight if the fight is already shooting at you.
Frankly, I think many teachers would be braver than many cops (and that isn’t a dis on cops) because of their personal relationship with the young lives they would be protecting.
Right? How many cops have selflessly, knowingly sacrificed (not just risked, but full on sacrificed) their lives in a desperate but ultimately futile attempt to save someone else’s kids? I don’t know of a single time that’s happened, but just off the top of my head, and just in the last few years, I can think of several times where school personnel have done so.
Well obviously the most famous is the 50 on 9/11, plus 350 other first responders. Plus it happens nearly every week in the US when responding to Domestics where officers are killed. Some percentage of cops are working for a paycheck, some are dedicated, do you think teachers are more selfless than other humans?
Doing the job they were quite well paid to do wasn’t bravery.
If you call yourself “law enforcement,” you are working for a paycheck. If you ever thought or said, “I just wanted to make it home to my family,” you are working for a paycheck.
Did you know some “law enforcement” are told they need to do a certain amount of arrests and citations? If you fail your quota, you will be punished or fired.
So in response to this question. “Right? How many cops have selflessly, knowingly sacrificed (not just risked, but full on sacrificed) their lives in a desperate but ultimately futile attempt to save someone else’s kids?”
There was a direct example, and your response, well it was their job. yeah, that’s the point.
I just came home from an A.L.I.C.E. course at my wife’s church. The presenters were good, the program is good as well. From 2 short exchanges with one of the guys, he was clear that he dialed back the defensive gun use aspect but did mention the fight aspect of Counter. He said that when he presented to the local schools, they didn’t want him to use the word “fight”. Sad. He mentioned that for a few decades that our kids have been indoctrinated to the idea that _any_ fighting is bad. So kids (and adults) sit and hide and wAit to be shot/stabbed.
It reaffirms the truth that you can’t count on anyone else stepping in and saving your sorry hide, not even the people with guns and badges. But there’s quite a difference between entering the premise to engage a gunman and being confronted by the gunman. In the latter you don’t get to choose to sit tight where it’s safe. Your choice is to be prepared or die.
I agree. The founders of our Constitution recognized this and this is why it’s an enumerated right in our Constitution. The ability to protect ourselves and our families (our students) is a right of the people; it cannot be delegated to or diminished by any Government entity.
The opinion of the editor only hurts if we all sit back and say nothing. As complex as this Editor says it might be, allowing teachers to arm themselves is not only an option but a right.
Simple: Cruz’ gun wanted to kill people, Peterson’s gun didn’t. People don’t have anything to do with it.
I think it does both. Now what it does for each individual is up to that individual’s thoughts, feelings, and opinion on the matter. Some will see it as a wake up call telling them in no uncertain terms that the police won’t always help and that ultimately the only person responsible for your personal safety and security is the only person who is personally invested in such, YOU. While others will see it as concrete proof that good guys with guns make no difference on crime because if a highly trained and vetted police officer couldn’t stop it then how would Bubba Jay from the trailer park or Schoolmarm Sarah ever hope to stop such an event. If 4 police officers couldn’t enter the building how could we expect teachers to stave off such a ferocious attack that left trained law enforcement professionals cowering behind concrete?
Neither side sees their answer as being wrong however, if I’m honest, I’d rather Schoolmarm Sarah have the option to defend her class with a firearm and a locked door than just a locked door. We’ll never know the right answer to school security because the “answers” we’ve been trying have obviously been wrong and we refuse to even attempt the one answer that the socialist machine has dubbed to be the wrong one. At this point though, what have we got to lose? We’ve tried everything else signs, police, and bans and not one has ever prevented or slowed a mass shooter. If we really care about our children and we aren’t just using them to score cheap political points with idiot voters everywhere then we owe it to them to at least try arming their schools’ staff. Give those educators a fair chance to defend the lives of the children they teach, mentor, and counsel on a daily basis. True it may not do anything, but it may also stop, deter, or hinder the next shooter. Isn’t it worth it if we never again see the headlines proclaiming X number of students killed and X number wounded in school shooting? The antis love saying if it saves just one life well then why are they so resistant to this? It very well could save just one life. Y’all we need to start writing (yes actually writing, nobody ever tripped over an email) our governors, our representatives, our senators, our mayors, and all levels of our government that have anything to do with education and we need to implore these self serving sewage sucking vermin to give teachers, principals, janitors, coaches, and parents the option to carry on school grounds. We need to tell them in no uncertain terms that they had better listen and obey or we will find someone who will.
Agreed!
I would not expect a school teacher to leave their classroom to intercept and engage an active shooter. Their responsibility is to stay with their students and watch over them.
Yet we hear of heroic teachers shielding students with their bodies before they died in a hail of bullets. Wouldn’t it be a little better if they at least had the option of throwing a little lead the other way first?
Sutherland Springs, TX anyone?
It will cause both sides to entrench deeper in all plausibility. Liberals certainly aren’t paying attention to the massive failures of government they wish us to relinquish our rights to and give more power. If they did they would be disgusted at what they see. Instead they had someone go “look over here at the shiny AR-15” distraction technique.
There wasn’t just one chicken shit deputy, there were 4. The local department walked past 3 of them cowering behind their cars to go in. The fact he surrendered means it’s likely even a minimal presentation of force by someone would have stopped him.
It’s sad that we have a teenaged ROTC member and a coach who was unarmed showing more courage than 4 deputies. It should be unacceptable, and it’s a great example of why we should be armed. When push come to shove, the only one who can be trusted is yourself.
When he surrendered, he was unarmed, and he was trying to slip out mixed in with the rest of the students. So I’m not sure he would have surrendered if he had still been armed.
He wasn’t a citizen gun owner. He was a school resource officer. His actions reflect badly on school resource officers, not citizen gun owners.
But I would like to amend the saying to this: “A good person with a gun should stop a bad person with a gun”. It’s more motivational, and gender neutral.
If my children were in a school with an active shooter, there would be no way anybody would be able to keep me out. If they were not, I’m not sure I would have the motivation to go up against a rifle with a handgun. But then again, I’m not trained or paid to do that, and Mr. Peterson supposedly was.
So true and it is because liberals think Government is the answer to everything hence it can never make a mistake! They apply a human attribute to an amorphous object (government) the same way they believe that a gun all by itself is going to start shooting people! All levels of Government fails miserably here and the real reason is that Government didn’t value the lives of the school kids so they ignored the threat!!
I think it might be a little less harsh to assume that Government was simply crapping it’s pants in fear.
But that does not excuse them for not going in.
It reaffirms the truth that you cannot rely on the government to protect you.
You can only rely on yourself and when evil comes looking for you the best defense to be had is made with your natural right to self defense and self preservation backed by a firearm.
Government does not exist to prevent crime. Government exists to punish crime.
That said, I do rely on the government to protect me from things like invasion, or too many mosquitoes. But when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
They don’t want private citizens owning guns, they don’t want teachers carrying, they want cops to use them but all cops are lazy and racist..I wouldn’t say it helped but it did affirm my assumption that I can’t trust the police to do anything. I can get a pizza delivered before the police respond to my call.
When I heard about this yesterday, one of the first thoughts that ran through my mind was…how long will it take the until the gun-grabbers try to spin this into “see…if a police officer won’t put him/her self in harms way how could we expect a teacher to do the same?” Sadly, when it comes to anti-gun propaganda, that well never seems to run dry. My counter argument to their poor use of evidence/logic is this: We have direct evidence from this most recent, as well as prior school shootings that there were many instances of UNARMED teachers who willingly put their own lives in harms way for the sake of saving the children…if some of the teachers were armed (and trained) there is no reason to suggest that they wouldn’t be up to the task of providing an additional measure of security/defense.
But to answer your question…I think the article will do a little of both…those who already feel teachers shouldn’t be armed will rationalize this as being proof that their opinion is the correct one, and those who feel an armed (properly trained) teacher can make a difference will rightly dismiss the “if cop can’t do it neither can the teacher” as bullshit. As Topher in Texas pointed out…when the officer chose to not enter the building we got definitive proof that he wasn’t a “good guy” with a gun.
Definitely helped the gun rights cause. I see the pendulum swinging away from the black metal and plastic “tool of death” to focus and outrage around FBI fail and the MULTIPLE shocking fails by the BSO. 3 callers warn and do nothing. 39 visits and nothing. School officer cowardice. And now revealed a bunch of his BSO coward cohorts taking cover by their cars. Proof that when you need law enforcement immediately, they are only 10 mins away, and when they show up there’s a decent chance they’ll do nothing to solve your plight.
Had Aaron Feis been armed, I bet he wouldn’t have waited…. yeah, that’s right, he wasn’t armed but still tried to save children.
The cowardice of Peterson and the 3 others deputies HELPS gun rights. It gives the lie to, and is the final nail in the coffin, of the Socialist claim, “The government will protect you, so you don’t need guns.”
The way we can end school massacres TOMORROW is for every governor to call out the militia to volunteer in schools. Relatives and neighbor’s will kill bad guys even if the cops do not ! There would be so many volunteers that duty would come around at most once a month, and laws allowing them to be excused from work just like jury duty could be passed. The only cost would be school lunches for the volunteers.
This will show America that private arms can defend schools, and kids will grow up appreciating that they were protected by them.
Well, you actually are proving a couple of things for certain….
1) more people (good guys/gals) in the school armed is necessary to help make a difference, so get rid of gun free zones at schools…..and
2) if it only saves “one life” 😏….being armed was worth it.
Yawn. A simpleton argument.
The best mechanic in the world can’t fix your car if he doesn’t even try to do so.
I’d agree withe headline. Sometimes the good guy with a gun doesn’t have a chance. Sometimes he chooses to do nothing. Sometimes he tries but fails.
Nothing is fail-proof, but some things (such as fighting a gun without a gun) are more fail-prone than others (such as fighting a gun with a gun).
What really got these kids killed is a liberal mentality of “Gun free zones”, the liberals and uninformed, unhinged want the “Rainbow Unicorn” solution. ( A fantasy that does not exist).
There is no gun law that would have prevented this. But, now they want to take my guns away.
99.96 percent of gun owners committed no crimes, yet we are chastised and have to put up with hate speech against us.
It’s like someone who is drunk driving and kills a person, so the solution is taking away corvettes and jacked up trucks from people because how the car looks.
This has nothing to with school safety, it’s about gun control, simple.
Interesting. Wally, I want to buy your Rainbow Unicorn. This is going to help gun control in so many ways.
Driving is a privilege not a right, alcohol is a right, as in the constitution.
A more apt analogy would be drunk driving kills X people a year, so ban alcohol. We tried that, with very few cars, and that was a major factor in creating the NFA, gangsta’s and tommy guns. We’ve decided as a society that even of we know alcohol is going to kill innocent kids, but I want my one bourbon, one shot, one beer.
Alcohol prohibition was a constitutional amendment, it wasn’t the second one, but it took a LOOONNNGG time for the temperance movement to convince people to vote for it, and a long time to get rid of it.
The only thing this event did for me was prove, once again, that the government doesn’t give one good God flying rat’s ass f#$k about the average person and that when everything goes south, we’re on our own.
What an idiotic argument – and one that no one is making, outside of straw man logical fallacies.
On the other hand, of the instances in which a good guy has stopped a bad guy with a gun, the percentage of those who did so while armed approaches 100, and the percentage of those who did so while unarmed aporoaches zero.
Being disarmed means essentially zero chance of stopping a bad guy with a gun. Being armed means a non-zero chance of stopoing a bad guy with a gun.
I’ll take the latter every time, even knowing my chances are not 100%. It is enough to know that my chances are not 0%.
Any armed civilian is better than any unarmed civilian.
Some coward who waits outside while people are being killed inside is no longer a “good guy”.
So a cop cowers in fear and CNN’s take is that the “a good guy with a gun can save the day” narrative is now debunked? My goodness, the political left is terrible at forming cogent arguments.
The rebuttal to this nonsense is so obvious that it shouldn’t require explanation. Their argument is based upon a false premise. No one on our side has ever said that a cop is equal to a “good guy with a gun.” We have always argued that a good guy with a gun is necessary precisely because the cops can’t be counted on for stopping a crazed badguy. A good guy with a gun is someone who, in trying to save his own backside, because he’s free to be armed well enough to put up a fair fight, ends up helping others and/or saving the day. He fights as a matter of survival, and maybe in doing so he’ll go out of his way to help others, too. A cop is someone who –by definition— has to go out of his way to help others. The key implication of which is that he can usually ensure his own survival by not getting in the fight in the first place, which is precisely why we don’t want to have to put our faith in him. A good guy with a gun is someone who does not have a choice about whether they get in the fight. He is either forced into the fight by circumstance or by an immutable sense of moral duty.
In short, CNN is essentially saying, “Ah hah! Your savior has failed you,” to which we answer back, “You’re confusing YOUR savior with ours. Nice try.”
Don’t put us in the category with the 4 Broward County COWARDS.
The Coral Springs Police acted with courage as I’m sure many other trained gun owners would.
I say it helps. You’re on your own, act accordingly.
That’s LaPierre’s original quote. It’s not strictly true: sometimes these assholes off themselves before any confrontation, sometimes they break off the attack on their own, but generally speaking what ends the killing is armed confrontation.
The underlying point though, is that someone armed needs to confront the killer, otherwise the killing will continue on the the killer’s timetable and stop when he decides. How far away the proverbial “good guy” is sets the clock for the murderer. If the “good guys” let the clock keep running even after they get there, that’s additional killing time.
The deadliest weapon any of these killers have ever used is time alone with their defenseless victims. Broward Sheriff’s Office, for whatever reason, gave this guy all the time he needed.
Four cowards in that situation clearly made no difference, no matter how well armed. But, they did get to go home at the end of their shift.
Peterson claims he “did a good job” by calling in the incident and then creating a defensive perimeter. The other deputies will doubtlessly claim that the also were doing their job by manning a defensive perimeter while awaiting back-up. Sounds like procedure to me.
The failure of government is proof that liberty for the individual is the best course of action.
If you become fully dependent on someone else, you will not have the ability to survive otherwise. Even newborns grow some teeth in months. If you allow the government to make you toothless, you will be forced to survive off their teat.
A grown man, and woman, should be able to protect their offspring themselves. They shouldn’t be required to get permission or have a non family member fulfill that responsibility. No one else cares for your child like you do. If you truly love your family, you will protect them by any means necessary. Giving up your human rights hurts every family; yes, that includes your very own.
This incident should be used for what it is: a wake up call to return the power/liberty to the people/individual.
The Mandalay Bay and Parkland shootings put on display how government will fail you when you need it the most. They can literally be standing near you and not save you.
The Sutherland shooting shows you that it’s the citizens, your neighbors, your community that will be there at the most important time. They need to have the fire[power] to save you…
It simply proves that people can’t count on TSA-type security or the police to protect them. People need to be able to defend themselves…
Peterson chose the safest legal option that was available to him. He utilized the option of officer discretion. LE is not duty bound by law to protect anyone. The LE oath (protect & serve) is one of biggest lies ever perpetrated on the public. John Q Public is focusing on the wrong subject! IMHO Officer discretion is the issue.
Are you a lawyer? Can you explain to me what “criminal negligence” is?
I do not take a position because the Supreme Court has settled the matter. I am just a messenger…Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748, United States Supreme Court Decision 2005. I don’t make the rules, I just want the rules to be known and in the open. An informed citizenry is a formidable power
Nothing illustrates the difference between the military ethos and many of today’s LEOs than the behavior of Scott Peterson and the other three Broward County Sheriff deputies. Soldiers are expected to engage forcefully and aggressively. If an MP/SP stood outside whIle a mass shooting was in progress he would be up on charges.
“Off to battle we will go, to live or die, hell I don’t know.”
Did [newsworthy topic] help or hurt gun rights?
It hurt them. The media will always use their platform to push in the direction of civilian disarmament in this country, and there will always be people who believe the most insane stories (like the one about the kid who “bought” a rifle with an expired ID in 5 minutes…………….. who admittedly didn’t actually buy the rifle or go through his 4473).
He was a cop assigned to a school. Wtf did he think he was there to do?
Beat or shoot unarmed kids if they break the law and resist.
It’s been over 20 years since I was in high school but the function of a School Resource Officer is to make narcotics busts.
That’s why we called them Narcs. They are there to bust teens for weed.
If they were interested in work that was dangerous they could be a fire fighter or cab driver.
I only dealt with one School Resource Officer in Arlington, VA. My son was being extorted daily buy two other kids. Each day he would be met at the cafeteria and these two kids would take his lunch money. I got wind of it and met with the SRO, who was about 50 pounds overweight, still was issued a revolver when the rest of the department was carrying automatics and told me that he had not heard from anyone about extortion. I asked what he was going to do and he told me NOTHING. I then said I WOULD shadow my son and THEN he told me I would not be admitted to the school. I then told him I would call his boss. He then decided to follow up, grabbed the kids. They got suspended for 3 whole days! I followed up with the parents. I was not very polite and my son was left alone. SO much for SROs.
We didn’t have a good guy with a gun but just a guy with a gun.
Craven guy with a gun.
That the police officer’s failure to use their firearms in defense of innocent life is “definitive proof” that teachers shouldn’t be armed?
Probably more proof that teachers should be armed.
Teachers have their skin in the game, LEOs do not.
And that the idea that any armed civilian can stop a spree killer is some kind of NRA con?
I dunno about any armed civilian, but it sure beats any unarmed civilian trying to stop the nut job.
So let’s see if we can summarize the MSM’s and the antis’ (sorry to be redundant) position.
– The general population should not be allowed to have guns without significant regulation because they are untrained amateurs and cannot be trusted.
– Only the police and military should have guns because they are trained and will protect you.
– Armed citizens never stop an attack so rely on the authorities.
Pretty sure that is an accurate summary up until a week or so ago.
Now, let’s add:
– Even the police cannot be expected to defend you from a super duper shooter with an AR.
– Let’s take everyone that hasn’t shot anyone’s guns away to make us all safer (????)
Have I got this about right?
According to journalists, the AR-15 is much too dangerous that even cops are afraid to use it. That’s why they didn’t act. They were too afraid of touching their department issued AR-15, therefore they couldn’t save the kids. Maybe if they had a M14 they would have done something. Oh wait… that teenager had a big, long, black, scary rifle, that shoots a lot of tiny bullets very quickly and it’s name is Assault Rifle 15. A teacher wouldn’t be able to defeat a rifle with a pistol because the pistol’s stats are lower, thus the rifle will obviously win every battle. Only the military could have stopped him because they have tanks, attack helicopters and fighter jets — those have better stats than the AR-15.
The Supreme Court has held in numerous cases that the police have no duty to protect or serve.
So I guess in reality they expect you to just accept you can not protect yourself and can’t expect to be protected.
Wow- lots of experts here.
I have to wonder what the official Broward Co Sheriff’s Dept policy is on situations like this: Charge right in blind or wait for backup and a supervisor? I’m betting these 4 cops were doing what they thought they were supposed to, and trained to do. Someone want to try to find and post official doctrine? Not what the sheriff said when his butt was hanging out there all by itself- what the official policy and training actually are.
Until there are real people in the middle of the scene as the first shots are fired who have the means to try to end it, the rest willl only sit around and argue this crap on the WWW. I have to believe a teacher who’d shield students with his own body would’ve put some rounds down range if he’d had the means. And if you look at most of these events, the perp will often end his own life when someone even arrives with a gun- he doesn’t usually have to be shot by someone else.
Well, then you just bet wrong. The Sheriff has already fired the cowardly deputy who failed to enter the school and engage the shooter. He has also suspended the three other deputies who arrived next, but instead took up pee-squatting positions behind their cruisers and failed to enter. Instead, they waited for Coral Springs Police Department Officers, aka MEN, to arrive next and make first entry.
Actions reflect leadership.
Did the BSO give out a GO to take up the female squat or the Asian squat position while they wait for SWAT?
Craig in IA: You know what// I don’t care what their “Policy” is. Children are being murdered and you stand outside the door, gun drawn and you do nothing, along with your 3 buddies who showed up and did nothing, while children are dying?? Fuck policy!!! If you are armed and can’t go in to save people your are sworn “TO PROTECT AND SERVE” then you can kiss my ass! Policy means shit when people are dying! Oh and by the way…don’t come back at me as an armchair warrior. Been shot at while in the Army for over 22 years, so been there done that!
What you miss is that they did a exactly what the sheriff wanted them to do, sat on their asses while the killer their department groomed for this gave them all a political soap box.
I didn’t miss it serge..What I hoped had been done by these craven cowards was that as human beings (maybe not) they as probably husbands and fathers would have reacted differently and gone in to save lives rather than using the playbook that the so-called sheriff laid out.. Sad effing shit….
Many people don’t know this but the Sherifs in Broaward and Palm each are pro gun control. They refuse to sign any NF forms. Israel showed his tru colors at the CNN circus when he yelled at Dana Loesch about too many weapons essentially in the hands of the general public!! I had to set up a gun trust in order to get my stamp for an SBR because of these policies exercised by the County’s Chief Law Enforcement Officer!!
Israel has now had 2 shooting incidents where his Deputies were present but did nothing. The Airport shooting and now this school. He is so busy saying he has done a great job as Sheriff as opposed to answering the important questions. The Department’s spokesman has requested the City of Coral Springs to back off publishing or commenting publicly about what the Deputies did or disn’t Do which tells you a lot!!
The mainstream media wants to again distort the situation. Not every teacher would be armed. Only those who choose to be, period. It’s not conscription where all are required to arm up. Nobody wants to arm some unwilling snowflake. I’m sure that coach would have carried given the option
Lives can be saved if this is an option for teachers.
The argument that an armed officer can’t help is disproven by all the unarmed teachers that have died protecting children.
The Broward Co officers all need to be terminated, if they’re lucky grieving parents won’t seek them out… were I a parent who lost a child in the mass killing, I’d be looking for these cowards.
The one who was actually assigned to the school has been hunkered down at his house, with BCSO deputies guarding him. I’d guess he’s been receiving threats.
He doesn’t need a military style assault machine gun rifle to protect himself now that he retired so he can relax at home and get paid very well for continuing to do nothing.
Wait, so the police gets armed guards to protect him but not kids in schools?
Cops have an unwritten/unspoken oath to protect one another. They also have a union.
I sincerely hope that those deputies take a nice long smoke break while some concerned citizens get a full confession to this conspiracy out of this scumbag broadcast live to the internet.
I’ve heard in on our local newspaper’s site comments section go either way. Some argue that “See? Even a ‘highly trained law enforcement professional’ couldn’t keep it together to go after the killer. So how could a teacher?”
I’ve heard others argue “See? This is why you need to take charge of your own protection. When seconds count, cowardly cops are still pissing themselves a hundred feet away.”
Then again others will point to what happened, on the same exact day, 1,700 miles away in Amarillo, Texas. There, a deranged gunman barged into a church during proceedings and threatened 100 congregants. Before he had a chance to open fire, several congregants just tackled him and pinned him to the ground while someone called police. In the commotion, on of the attendees managed to get the would-be shooter’s gun. Uh oh…..
Amarillo’s finest finally showed up and burst into the room. Failing to assess the situation, they began to open fire on the man holding the gun; despite the fact that that was a churchgoer who had just taken it from the bad guy. Given that case, some people are arguing anew, this time with a case to back them up, that arming teachers would just confuse responding officers and lead to mistakenly shooting a teacher.
RF? I thought you said you’ve never been able to find such a case of police responding to reports of a spree shooter showing up and intentionally shooting what turned out after the confusion not to be the bad guy?
Umm… Police know who the teachers of their community are. Also, if teachers were to be armed, they would train along side of the police that will be responding to back them up.
I know people in my area who have took part in school shooter drills and role played various roles. They pretended to be the murderer using airsoft guns and they also played the victim role.
I don’t know the details as to why the cops opened fire on the Churchgoer. Maybe he didn’t listen to commands to drop the gun. Maybe the cops didn’t follow protocols and opened fire out of fear. By the way, it doesn’t sound like the gunman was actually trying to kill anymore, hence the people were able to wrestle with him.
“Police know who the teachers of their community are.” In Mayberry, sure, not in Houston and not in any city whose name pops up on google maps before maximum zoom. New people get hired all the time, by P.D.s and schools. People transfer from other departments and districts all the time.
You’re right about the Amarillo case. There sure are a lot of maybe this and maybe that surrounding the matter. About the only thing definitive, which also happens to be the only thing that matters, is that a crazy man burst into a church waving a gun and ultimately it was a churchgoer whom the responding officer shot.
This kind of thing is rare, but not unheard of. I also recall another case, but I was unable to find it again. It’s from maybe two to four years ago and involved a man in a suburb of Dallas/Fort Worth. I thought it was Mesquite, but again, I couldn’t find it to confirm. A burglar alarm went off at the house across the street from his in a tony neighborhood. The house across the street, if I recall correctly, belonged to a city councilwoman for that suburb.
The burglar fled when the alarm went off and ended up in the garage or backyard of the man’s house. The man heard the commotion, grabbed his pistol, and went to investigate. About that same time the officers responding to the burglar alarm across the street arrived. They heard activity back across the street at the man’s house, figured it was the burglar, so they went there to investigate. I guess the burglar hopped a fence and got away, because when the officers went into the man’s backyard, all they found was him with a gun in his hand. They ended up shooting him. I don’t recall whether he died.
This a very rough sketch of this story, since I’m trying to remember what I didn’t expect to have to recall years later. If anyone can find it and get the details, that’d be great. In any event, these things can happen, but that’s no reason to deprive people their right to keep and bear arms, even on a school campus.
Maybe it’s me, but my takeaway from these anecdotes is not “don’t have a gun and don’t try to be a Good Guy”, but rather “Police as a whole are a bit terrible and you had better hope you never end up in a dark alley with one”.
Maybe we’d be better off not having the Police respond to dangerous situations. They seem to cause more problems than they solve.
After an armed citizenry secure the scene, then the cops can come and do the CSI.
It helps, IMO. It helps, and there is an easy counter to it.
Yes, the “trained” LEO failed. Miserably. The football coach who died shielding students, helplessly unarmed, did not. Ask anyone who throws the “see, good guys with guns don’t help” argument if they could believe with any certainty that the man who took bullets to save kids would not have had the wherewithal to shoot back had that been possible. Then ask if they think his dying thought was “thank God I don’t have a gun, someone might get hurt…”
That one person failed to take action does not mean every person will fail.
That’s why there has to be more than 1 armed person at the school. That’s why teachers have to fulfill their duty to protect the children they have been given temporary guardianship of. A teacher who can but won’t isn’t who they profess to be.
Give men and women, of the community, back their human right to protect life and liberty.
The four outside may have been following department policy to not go in.
The problem in my mind is the social contract that privileges police with qualified immunity and benefit of the doubt in exchange for assuming greater risk on behalf of others. As I see it, a their policy? and behavior violates this “social contract” and does not deserve any respect.
The Supreme Court in 2005 determined the police do not have a duty to protect life but to stop crime.
Bottom line here! The NRA and we ARE NOT THE ENEMY!! If you haven’t already, get off your ass and write/call all your of state senators, representatives, federal senators and representatives and the President! we have to get it across that the GOV failed us in Florida! And it’s not the first time this has happened! We are the last line of defense for our families, friends and maybe a complete stranger! We need to make it clear that we as gun owners are not what went wrong here, the “Good guy with a gun” wasn’t present! This piece of crap deputy and his three buddies did NOTHING to stop this POS shooter, about whom the “Authorities” knew was a psycho and did nothing to intervene (School admin, County school board, BSCO deputies/Sheriff, FBI) etc. …I have Grand children in three different schools where I live. Another about two hours south of me. If I had the opportunity to save them I would give my life rather than see one of them harmed! And no I’m not just talking smack here, I’m getting old and slow, but I shoot straight! I trained everyday for over 22 years in the Army so I would KNOW what to do in a given situation. I will not go down without a fight! Nuff said I guess…I’m just really PISSED OFF!!!!!!!
I didn’t read all the above comments, so, what I have to say may have already been said.
Admittedly the shooter was a bad guy with a gun. Admittedly the Deputy was a guy with a gun.
But the part I deliberately leave out of the good guy bad guy saying above in my description of the two the word “good”. That deputy was anything but a good guy. He was a fucking coward.
All four were! I didn’t want to say they were cowards but, a spade is a spade.
They can make excuses. They can blame objects. They can write lies. They can say sorry. It’s too late…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tjn8x9YoM0
The Broward County Sheriff’s deputies that just stood by and did nothing are not “good guys”, they are cowards that let evil prevail.
If gun confiscation is attempted, I hope these cowards get the assignment. They’ll run away at the first sight of an AR-15. Keep a shotgun loaded with rock salt handy to shoot them in the butt while they are running away (like the railroads used to do).
A COWARD, armed or unarmed, is USELESS… except as a decoy to draw fire.
The REAL cops from Coral Springs(?) should have grabbed that coward by the collar and thrown him through the front door to distract the murderer.
makes a good shield
What this despicable farce has done is to drive a stake through the heart of the lie, “You don’t need a gun, the police will protect you”, just as 9/11 drove a stake through the heart of “Just submit and you’ll be ok.”
The police and the cop fanbois are just talking themselves into irrelevance.
I learned 40+ years ago that if you’re not willing and able to protect YOURSELF, you’re just not going to get protected AT ALL.
Yep. I carry a cop named Smith, and another called Sig on a daily basis. Very reliable.
No
There are no guarantees in a fight. All I want is a fighting chance.
Police Have No Duty to Protect Individuals as ruled several times by the Supreme Court:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia
Or
http://tribunist.com/news/supreme-court-ruling-police-have-no-duty-to-protect-the-general-public/
Cause enough for firing and losing a pension for all four. They should do some penitentary time also. These men are sworn to protect the people on thier beat. Put them in jail; and send a message.
Still waiting for his three or so fellow deputies to do the correct thing and resign also.
Hopefully we get past all of the propaganda and figure out all of the ways that this totally went wrong. This kid pulled the trigger and there is no excuse for it. However, there are going to be a lot more like him if society can’t figure out how/why a scared little kid was motivated to commit this atrocity. If you look at him versus David Hogg or Emma Gonzalez, the cold narcissists that are exploiting this to launch their agendas on the nation, I would have picked them as the killers. Combine a bad family situation, a school and medical system that pumps kids full of drugs so that they can ‘focus’ in class, and teenage, activist bullies that try to shame everyone that doesn’t conform to their progressive ways; there are going to be more outcasts that act out in violent ways.
I don’t know, never looked at a barrel pointed at me? I do know if I ran in I would have something on my side and that is surprise and shoot first. I do have balls enough to stop the shooting/killing. A person under that kind of stress doesn’t have much time to think, what if period….
The old adage “When seconds count, the Police are only minutes away.” now has a new partner…
“When a gunman is in your school, Police are hiding outside protecting themselves.”
the police are under no legal obligation what-so-ever to protect any citizen or to protect their private property;
there is actual case law precedent for this;
the “question of the day” presumes that the incident-in-question actually occurred;
has that been established yet vis á vis the currently accepted legal standard in criminal matters of “beyond reasonable doubt” [?]
If they don’t burn the tapes and video I guess?
When one deputy may have feet of clay, someone else might step up. We saw this with the cops who did show up. Some held fast. Then others showed up and went in.
It doesn’t take everyone to #shootback, just someone to #shootback.
“Not every good guy with a gun is going to stop a bad guy with a gun. ”
When we want you to decide which good guys might get a gun then, we’ll open your skull and shout into it.
Not every POS (D)bag offering his opinion under the auspices of freedom of the press is going to avoid being a mfn communist tool, damaging support for the First Amendment.
There, corrected ya. I’d say ‘fixed ya’ but only JESUS or a Vet (Dr.) could do that.
This will be very interesting to watch. There is a Court of Appeals case called Warren v. District of Columbia that held that the police do not owe a specific duty to provide police services to citizens based on the public duty doctrine. This officer could easily site that case and say he was under no obligation to go in to that school and the court could agree with him.
…and the doctrine of sovereign immunity will prevent the families from suing the deputy and the Sheriff for failing to act
“Did Peterson’s inaction opened some eyes to the life-saving importance of their own natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms?”
One can only hope.
It would be wonderful if someone invinted a way for principled journalists to inform the public about Petersons legal right to not act. /sarc
My girlfeinds vagina smells like a walrus.
Two questions.
First, how do you have such intimate knowledge of what a walrus smells like?
Second, what in particular is fiendish about this girl? Other than the smell, I mean.
I think the cowards, not just the one, but the 3 or 4 other cowards have shown the, non gun owning, American people you can’t rely on the government to save you.
It will take time to sink in. But I predict more gun sales going up and more training classes filling up. The F.A.S.T.E.R. faculty Administration safety training emergency response, classes will fill up in every state that has the class.
Yep, the Broward County shooting should be interpreted as follows:
Never before has there been a mass shooting incident which without question demonstrates unequivocally that government at every level is so utterly incompetent in protecting the citizenry that the citizenry better arm themselves to the teeth and protect themselves.
Law enforcement is not obligated to render aid, remember? Sounds like they had the situation contained.
That’s sarcasm, btw.
If actual facts could help or hurt us there would be no argument. The gun control argument is illogical and not fact based.
“Here’s definitive proof that a good guy with a gun doesn’t always stop a bad guy with a gun.”
Here’s my mod of the above statement:
“Here’s definitive proof that a guy with a gun doesn’t always stop a bad guy with a gun.
I think that if we allowed teachers with concealed carry to do so in schools, then shooters will no longer think of a school as a soft target. With schools no longer being gun-free zones these criminals will pick other soft targets
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