Does ‘Hardening’ Schools Make Them Safer?

1. Social “science” the most better and effective way of preventing school shootings?

   Interesting take on things.

   But, again the “solution” is another means of avoiding personal responsibility of parents to control their offspring. And the responsibility of students to act responsibly.

   • “Does ‘Hardening’ Schools Make Them Safer?”

     No.

     The solution is dissolution of the public school system. Get rid of the whole thing, and start over with COVID style educational home schooling PODS. More school choice is needed. Micro charter schools. Micro private schools. Home schooling groups. Public schools are a garbage hole of leftist teachers, administrators, that mostly specialize in indoctrination and day care, rather than building educated men out of boys, and educated women out of girls. They are simultaneously not allowed to discipline your children, and simultaneously not allowed to kick them out of school. So they become garbage holes. They become training centers for future flash mobs, store looters, and rioters. And it’s no surprise at all, that an occasional mass shooter arrives to make everyone pay.

     • Internet based “learning”is a myth/scam/BS. Does NOT work.

       • on its own, maybe so. BUT teaching a child HOW to investigate and learn about a particular subject matter should include learning HOW to use the internet as a research tool, just as I learned how to use books, libraries, etc, as resources. Learning HOW to learn, instead of just sitting there atttempting to absorb what is spewed from the front of the room is how to raise funcitonal and capable individuals.

     • Great, a whole new generation of fat kids who get no exercise.

   • I notice that this is a professional social worker so who would guess that his answer to the problem would be more counselors and psychologists?

     “Schools cannot be hardened enough to prevent gun violence. Schools can, however, become more physically and psychologically safe so students…” and their parents will FEEL safe (even when they are not).

     Not just in schools, but how many of these incidents eventually reveal that the killer was known to and often under the care of “mental health professionals”?

     How often is it discovered that they were known to be discipline problems in the school or workplace by in house officials and/or law enforcement and the problem glossed over rather than addressed?

     And how often were they fully aware that the target of their murderous outburst was a lightly defended (if at all) Gun Free Zone?

     IMO, a certain amount of hardening of the target would be advantageous in making ingress more difficult or focused, but airport security type arrangements just result in crowds of potential victims waiting to pass through security and create a certain level of anxiety where the students (or workers) each get a feeling that THEY are not trusted.

     But it becomes more and more obvious that the primary deterrent in these situations is a certain knowledge by the killer that even if he finds a way past the initial security points his attack will be answered swiftly by armed personnel inside the location and that he will meet certain death before he can accomplish his goal.

     No solution is perfect, but passing a posted warning sign and through a difficult entry and into the presence of armed and motivated defenders seems like the proper balance, and save your grief counselors for the perpetrators family members.

     • I have not checked but “Elizabeth” would appear to be female.

       Pshrinks = 99% prog voters. Who have never “cured” anyone. But just need to try harder (with more public $). As every other marxist program.

2. Conditionally agree, Ms. Anthony does home in on one of the major causes of violence which is untreated mental illness. The aspect I somewhat disagree on is she seems to dismiss the notion of hardening schools at all. No, we don’t want to turn our school environments into prison-like conditions that traumatize our youth. But I believe a number of authors have presented excellent solutions that can be implemented without breaking the bank to help schools be more secure. Certainly a direct approach is allowing teachers who want to conceal carry and are properly trained to do so in an active shooter incident is not expensive nor does it outwardly affect anything in the students’ visual environment or procedure in their typical day. Having outer doors that are locked during the school day and are only opened after visual and verbal vetting by school personnel through one controlled entrance has been a procedure at most of the local schools around me for at least 17 years. There is no one solution to this problem and no solution set that can 100% guarantee that no further school shootings may occur. But we (our community, like the one I work with) can put together and implement enough to seriously deter this from happening in “our backyard”. Get involved at the local level and be part of the solution to protect our kids.

   • What’s the betting that there will be a plethora of accidental and collateral damge as soon as you allow teachers to have handguns in class.

     WOULD you trust a teacher to defend your kids? If you can you’ve got a bloody sight more confidence that I would ever have.

     That teacher WILL, in law, be responsible for collateral damage including accidental shootings. If a teacher KNOWS thaqt if he or she kills or injure’s a student, no matter what his or her intention he or she will be resonsible and WILL no doubt be persued through the Courts.

     Can you possible imagine the INSURANCE PREMIUMS that the schools, or individual teachers will have to pay to protect against collateral damage?

     • Can’t never did. Millions of excuses about how the things can’t possibly get done. I wouldn’t trust a teacher to protect my kids, I do trust the teacher to do their best to protect themselves and in the process they might kill a shooter instead of standing there with no Tools in their hands to defend themselves with. They’re not firefighters either but schools have fire extinguishers all over them. Of the 13 Mass school shootings that have happened since the 1960s only one of the shooters had military training and that was Charles Whitman in the clock tower in Austin. Everybody else was a rank amateur and I’m sure a teacher with a handful of hours of training could match them. It’s better than nothing and if a child gets shot in the melee by a teacher oh well, that kid was probably going to get shot by the gunman anyway.

       • “Everybody else was a rank amateur and I’m sure a teacher with a handful of hours of training could match them“

         Unfortunately, the evidence shows that 19 armed, armored, trained and experienced law enforcement officers with assault weapons and ballistic shields could not match this “rank amateur” and allowed him an unrestricted target rich environment for over one hour.

         What was it that made him so effective, if he had had a knife or a hammer or a ball bat, would they have waited over an hour before they entered the classroom?

         Do you think a teacher with minimal training, distracted by being in charge of the education of 30–40 youngsters could do a better job than the Texas Department of Public Safety?

         I’m just glad there were brave children and teachers there to sacrifice themselves in order to protect those poor, scared local and state police officers.

       • @miner49

         “Unfortunately, the evidence shows that 19 armed, armored, trained and experienced law enforcement officers with assault weapons and ballistic shields could not match this “rank amateur” and allowed him an unrestricted target rich environment for over one hour.”

         Wrong and contextually false

         19 armed, armored, trained and experienced law enforcement officers with assault weapons and ballistic shields .. stood around for over an hour outside the room and did not employ all that intentionally ’cause waiting for orders.

       • miner. Do you think the teacher could have done a worse job than those cops?

         We get it. We really do. You’re an anti civil rights fascist redneck from WV. Anybody standing up for themselves terrifies you.

         Like herr dacian you denigrate the cops but you also want to give them the right to decide who gets to exercise their human and civil rights.

       • “did not employ all that intentionally ’cause waiting for orders“

         So were they were afraid the “rank amateur” with the 5.56 mm high velocity AR15 would penetrate their body armor?

         Or did the experienced and well trained local law enforcement, as well as the Texas Department of Public Safety troopers stand down because they never got the entry order?

         Really? You’re going with that one?

         Is it more likely that the law-enforcement contingent was part of the illuminati conspiracy and they intentionally allowed the government free reign to massacre the school children because reasons?

     • @Albert always wrong

       “That teacher WILL, in law, be responsible for collateral damage including accidental shootings”

       Not sure how it is where you live, but in the US in public schools teachers have a ‘qualified immunity’ from legal reprocusions if they act to protect a student or students or other school staff in an emergency.

       • “…they act to protect a student or students or other school staff in an emergency.”

         Should have been…

         … they act in good faith to protect a student or students or other school staff in an emergency.

       • “teachers have a ‘qualified immunity’ from legal reprocusions… “

         Really? Some would be surprised to hear that.

         “In Price as next friend of J.K. v. Mueller- Owens, the United States District Court ruled that a school staff member is not entitled to qualified immunity for the use of excessive force against a student.10 In denying the motion to dismiss a lawsuit brought by parents of the student who was forcibly removed from the classroom, the court held that “[i]t is well established that a school administrator or teacher cannot use excessive force against a student.”11 The court noted that “although the undisputed facts show that defendant’s initial decision to seize plaintiff and remove her from the classroom was reason- able,… [the student’s] allegations of punching, hitting and slamming her to the ground create a genuine issue of material fact.”12“

         https://www.nasro.org/news/2021/06/24/news-releases/qualified-immunity-in-public-education/

       • @Miner…

         “for the use of excessive force against a student.”

         Once again your failure at reading comprehension and understanding context shows up.

         This is what I actually posted…in the US in public schools teachers have a ‘qualified immunity’ from legal repercussions if they act to protect a student or students or other school staff in an emergency.

         I offered a correction to that in a reply post to add the ‘in good faith’ part that I accidentally left out…so what I said was…

         “in the US in public schools teachers have a ‘qualified immunity’ from legal repercussions if they act in good faith to protect a student or students or other school staff in an emergency.”

         Your stupid example, the school staff member was not acting such that he was covered by that qualified immunity.

         But you evidently don’t understand what context means

         Stop cherry picking out of context to make your ignorant points and stop being dishonest.

       • “the school staff member was not acting such that he was covered by that qualified immunity“

         That is your opinion.

         What happens when the teacher is firing his weapon at the kid with a knife and kills someone in the adjacent classroom?

         You know how it will go, the use of the firearm was ‘excessive force’ against the little adolescent armed only with a pocket knife…

         I’m not willing to place my faith in a full-time teacher who is also required to be a part-time security guard in a room with 30 to 40 fragile children.

         Israel doesn’t need armed teachers to protect their classrooms, they just don’t allow their citizens to have firearms until age 27 unless they’ve been through the military. And they have stringent requirements for citizens who wish to carry a gun, including training and proficiency testing on a live fire range.

       • .40 don’t worry. Miner is just a prog parrot. Birds can’t read.

         Israel isn’t always right. After WWII they copied (and are still sticking with) the WORST system of gov’t in the Western world (Great Britain parliamentary joke. Dysfunctional stupidith. Thousands of Americans moved to Israel but apparently NONE (including Meir) thought of just copying the US Constitution.

       • Dunno about qualified immunity, unless that is synonymous with “jury trial”, NO ONE will prosecute you for stopping a school shooter. Period.

       • “…excessive force against a student.”

         Best you got? Your reference appears to be a student discipline case, rather than a teacher defending against a school shooter. In fact, there was no mention of school shooters anywhere in that article. Context matters.

       • “NO ONE will prosecute you for stopping a school shooter. Period“

         Really? What if you shoot at the ‘shooter’ and hit them, only to discover it’s another kid in a black hoodie…

         What if you shoot at the shooter and miss, hit an innocent child and wound/kill them?

         What if you have an accidental discharge, mishandling or dropping the weapon, and it hits a child and wound/kills them?

         What if a child gets a hold of your weapon and shoots themselves/another student/staff or teacher?

       • MinorIQ,

         “What if you have an accidental discharge, mishandling . . . . the weapon?”

         I’m sure, MajorStupidity, that you would have this problem, if only you could find a woman that would let you near her. For the rest of us, an hour or so a week at the range is sufficient practice to insure that we don’t “rimfire”.

         You probably don’t even realized the extent to which we laugh uproariously at you and dacian the stupid CLAIMING to know f***-all about firearms, when your EVERY COMMENT proves you don’t. Just give it up, loser. You are a progtard, Leftist/fascist, gun-fearing idiot of a loser, who HATES the idea that anyone else would have agency over their own lives. F*** you, MinorIQ, and the spavined, swaybacked horse you rode in on. Your ignorant, Leftist/fascist opinions are already well-known on this forum, and categorically rejected. You don’t want “unqualified people” to have guns?? I agree – IF you have a firearm (which I doubt)? Give the damn thing away; it will do exactly ZERO good in your ignorant, unqualified hands.

         Just go back to your circle jerk with dacian the stupid, our nameless, brainless, d***less troll, and jsled, and let the adults have a conversation without you.

     • herr dacian/albert. Blood in the streets. Wild west. Yada, yada, yada.

     • The officers weren’t taking fire and weren’t being hit and were not seeing people dying in front of them. The teachers on the other hand were being fired on, being hit, and saw the children being shot as well. Anyone and everyone will do anything they can to save themselves including firing back because they have absolutely no choice. The officers had a choice to stand in the hallway because they were not under an immediate threat and were not being hurt.

       • “The officers had a choice to stand in the hallway because they were not under an immediate threat and were not being hurt“

         Bullshit. They could hear the shots and the screams of the children, they were informed of the many 911 calls from children in the classroom.

         The police officers had been trained on the immediate action of directly assaulting the shooter in March, they had a duty to take immediate action regardless of who was in charge or how many police officers were present or what equipment was available.

         Don’t make excuses for the Texas Department of Public Safety, the facts have proven that they are all hat and no balls.

         Or, they are members of the conspiracy and intentionally allowed school children to die.

       • MajorStupidity,

         Officer Bill said “The officers had a choice to stand in the hallway because they were not under an immediate threat and were not being hurt“, and your response was “Bullshit. They could hear the shots and the screams of the children, they were informed of the many 911 calls from children in the classroom.” I know reading comprehension, or just comprehension in general, is an issue for you, but . . . what part of “they could hear the shots . . . and were informed of the many 911 calls” constitutes being “in danger”???

         We ALL agree that the Uvalde police were useless, and stood around with their puds in their hands like they were imitating you and dacian the stupid. IN WHAT FRIGGIN’ UNIVERSE is that any argument AGAINST arming teachers who CHOOSE to be armed????

         Are you REALLY as irretrievably stupid and brain dead as your comments suggest? It is hard for me to credit that someone THAT stupid could actually operate a computer or smart phone. For your own good, consider following the wisdom of Samuel Langhorne Clemens, “Keep your mouth shut and let people think you a fool; don’t open it and remove all doubt.” In your case, MajorStupidity, words you should heed. But you won’t, because you’re stupid.

     • 28 states currently permit the arming of teachers BUT also allow school districts to opt out. To date there has NOT been a rash of accidental shootings of students by armed teachers but there have been a number of shootings in those schools that decided to opt out of arming their teachers. The local school district allows arming of teachers as well as trained armed citizen security in the schools and they have not asked for any tax increases or extra government handouts for insurance coverage.

     • wake up, Minor…… go nd study the FASTER Saves LIves programme in Ohio, the extent of their training programmes,, the THINGS they must prove their proficiency in, their TRACK RECORD over the decades it has been in place, and the evidence as to the efficacyof the entire programme. Also examine the actual total cost to government/taxpayers for the entire programme.

       Face it, the parents ALREADY trust those teacherw with their children,and have for years. Allowing any of them, at their choice, to carry concealed while at school (just a they do when they go anywhere else)will change NOTHING until it is time to take out that gun and USE it to kill an attacker. NONE of the other teachers, staff, students, even know which teachers are caryring and which are not. Until it is ‘TIIME” to know. Thus your whinge aobut effets on the kids is baseless. NONE of them know. I carry everywhere I go and have for fifteen years. Except for maybe three occasions, NO ONE ELSE ever knew. Thus NO ONE else had even the opportunity to get scared, think about taking MY gun by force, or melt into their flip flops.
       As to training and the skillset they all MUST demonstrate, go and find out about the programme. Look it up. Don’t forget to search out the up to date track record of how different “events” played out involving armed adult staff.
       All you can do is whinge on about “what if” scenarios. As you ponder these, consider these three incidents in a “what if this was different” scenario.
       Start with Uvalde. What if half the teachers trapped in that room with the dirtbag had been armed, and trained/vetted as FASTER does? Instead of a count of 21 innocents dead and one perp dead, we’d have a likely maximum of two innocents dead and one perp dead.
       Sandy Hook elementary school. WHAT IF school staff manning the front desk, half of them had been armed as diertbag shot his way into thhe school building (so much for hardening, eh?) and been able to use their own guns when the perp approached the service window? We would now not even know of the “incident” at Sandy Hook, because one dead gunman crashing his way into a school would be a nothingburger in the press two weeks further on.
       Now how about Parkland? After court orders failed to keep the dirtbag off the campus, and after as SRO WATCHED him, knowing who he was, walk onto school grounds carrying what was easily identfied s a new Cabelas rifle case obviosuly carrying some weight (one each AR pattern rifle, and fifteen each TEN ROUND magazines prepped with ten rounds each –so much for limiting mag capacity, eh?), and after entering the school building against a court order he took out his new rifle and pocketfull of TEN round mags and began randmly killing innocents. Change scenario.. supposing the teachers and janitors at Parkend were FASTER qualified, and armed? How long would it have taken for one of them to draw down on Dirtbag and fire one or two rounds, ENDING the incident with a body count of one dead perp and perhaps two deac students? I know for a fact Mr. Arron Feiss would be alive today, instead of being shot multiple times as he wrapped his own body around two of his students to take their bullets himself.

       Yes, I DO trust those teachers to protect their students. Most of them are made of the same stuff s Mr. Feiss.

       Now one more scenario that does NOT need a change in the narrative: Clackamas Towne Centre Mall shooting, three days before Sandy Hook. Large mall, thousands roaming about inside, doing what folks do at the mall. Deranged dirtbag enters with rifle case, AR pattern rifle inside and firteen TEN ROUND magazines, all prepped (where have we seen THIS before?) takes up a position where to major walkways converge, and begins randomply picking off individuals After killing two, another shopper, 22 year old male, who “happened” to have his own legally carried (no one woud have cared if it had been ILLegally carried) concealed handgun, drrew down on Deranged, but held fire because there were people in his line of sight behind the perp. (no collatereal damage here.. skilled shoote,r at ONLY 22 years of age) Deranged noticed the muzzle carefully and steadily aimed at him, turned and walked down the hallway away from him, then turned into a narrow utllity corridor and did the best thing he’d done all day with his own rifle.. he put it to his own head and pulled the trigger. Body cound, one dead perp, total. Collateral damge, NOTHING. Lives saves? Maybe hundreds. YOU do the maths… fifteen mags ten rounds each, poor aim, only half do any damage. Thassalotta dead folks. Well, because of the one guy (a whole lot like the teachers you dread and don’t trust) the toll was stopped at two. There are several hundred people still alive today because of ONE normal person who was carrying his own gun, did not shoot any inocents, never fired at the perp, yet ended the certain massacre.

       Perhaps YOU need to seek some mental health expertise, you seem to be projecting some pretty harsh stuff on millions of teachers you do not even know.Maybe YHOU are thinking YOU should become a teacher in an elementary school so YOU can mis-aim and shoot a few of them when the dirtbag perp shows up at YOUR school……..

     • Completely ridiculous. Just like the “plethora” of killings right after the Second Amendment was ratified, or after each state adopted “shall issue” carry laws, and on, and on, pure unadulterated bullshit. Pass the law based on the universal human need for FREEDOM, then add restrictions when they have been proven necessary, which in this case will be “never”. When I first began carrying a loaded firearm, there were not sudden increases in the number of people I shot to death each day, why in HELL do you assume your neighborhood schoolteachers would immediately begin killing the children in their care? You make an excellent case for calling you an idiot.

       • “why in HELL do you assume your neighborhood schoolteachers would immediately begin killing the children in their care?“

         ?

         I never claimed that “school teachers will immediately begin killing the children”, I believe you may be projecting.

       • MinorIQ,

         No, MinorIQ, you “never claimed that ‘school teachers will immediately begin killing the children’”, you just argued that teachers were so incompetent that they couldn’t safely operate a firearm. And then you accused Larry of “projection”??? AYFKMRN????

         MinorIQ, there is certainly a consensus on this forum that you are, to the extent you even OWN a firearm (a doubtful prospect, at best) are probably incompetent to do so . . . your stunning ignorance of firearms (and history, and logic, and ’cause and effect’, and . . . shall I go on???) and the competence and training of MOST firearm owners is remarked on regularly on this forum . . . yet you continue to “double down on stupid”.

         MinorIQ, don’t go away mad, just . . . go the f*** away. You have NOTHING of substance to add to ANY discussion on this forum, so feel free to spare us your ignorant, indoctrinated, Leftist/fascist bulls***. We can get the same nonsense, with as little intellectual content, from Chris Hayes, Joyless Reid, Joe Scarborough, and Rachel Madcow. Your “contribution” is neither needed, nor desired. You are FAR too stupid to have anything worthwhile to say.

         You have the right to remain silent . . . unfortunately, you lack either the wit or the ability to do so.

     • “What’s the betting that there will be a plethora of accidental and collateral damage as soon as you allow teachers to have handguns in class.”

       According to the Texas Association of School Boards more than one in five Texas schools have armed faculty. There are several other states with similar numbers. Across the U.S. more than 20 million people have a license to carry. 42 states have laws granting shall-issue licenses to those who qualify, and 25 of them (half the states) no longer require a license to carry.

       Where are the stories of “accidental and collateral damage” by license holders?

     • Albert the Subject continues to be a d***less subject. In other news, water is wet, the Sun rises in the East, and Epstein didn’t kill himself.

       Now, on the reality. Albert the subject, NO ONE is suggesting requiring all teachers to carry. ALL proposals that I am familiar with provide for funding for training (and weren’t YOU supposedly a trainer, Albert the Subject???). If having armed people around other unarmed people is going to lead to this giant “bloodbath” that you and the other idiot Leftist/fascists around here envision, riddle me this: Why hasn’t it happened in all the states that have adopted “constitutional carry”???

       The increases in “gun violence” in the US have ALL been in . . . urban, Dimocrat-run, s***hole cities (and attributable to a VERY specific demographic).

       You are too ignorant to be aware, but in the US, concealed carry permitees have a lower crime rate THAN FRIGGIN’ POLICE, you gormless Limey tw@t.

       Thank God we kicked your sorry, subject @$$es out back in 1776, and have been able to (and HAVE) ignored your ignorant, subject opinions since. Kindly hie thyself off the the theological place of eternal punishment, subject.

   • “Conditionally agree, Ms. Anthony does home in on one of the major causes of violence which is untreated mental illness.”

     I disagree, and I spent over 40 years in the public ed and university/college cesspool.

     We are not dealing with mental illness, per se, we are dealing with young people who have never been pressed to grow up, coupled with a now-lack of even a common set of principles where there are things that are “always” right, and “always” wrong. When there is a lack of any real and commonly-accepted moral code, life becomes extremely cheap, and taking lives is a great way for a bored kid to get some much-needed attention. And for young people, attention is the real drug they search for.

     Further- E pluribus unum. Remember that one? It was the model for the entire American system up until the late 1960s, when the social engineers ceawled out from under a rock somewhere and pressed a “salad bowl” diversity concept, rather than the traditional “melting pot”. Soon, non-Christians had to be treated in a certain manner, black students in another, Hispanics in yet another, females put to the head of everything at the expense of male students,and of course we cannot leave out the gay/lesbian/trans/wtf ever students. most of whom, up until perhaps their junior year in HS, if even by then, don’t even know the difference, except when their idiot parents try to make them into something they were originally not. And while we’re at it, we must kick all white males to the curb- lower the performance bar so the rest can easily reach it. So, rather than challenge students with material that requires effort, we coddle with lukewarm pablum that anyone with a room temperature IQ can grasp instantly.

     Teach about the founding of this God blessed nation, or American history in general? Why, history only began when these kids were born, who cares about how we got here? And where are we headed? Well, if you have studied American and world history, and perhaps, have read the Bible, it’s fairly easy to see.

     Mental illness? No, just a lack, for the most part, of mental shaping- turning the human creature into something it cannot become on its own. That used to be the entire scope of the education system.

     And harden our schools? I’d suggest parents harden their own attitude about seeing to it that their own children are taught to succeed in this type of world. To hell with it “taking a village”, worry about your own kids first, that’s what the rest of the animal world does. For the most part, this means parents will have to abandon public ed and the vast majority of the college and university system, where degrees are handed out, carte blanche, in whole subject areas where there are no jobs.

3. How are schools in Israel protected? How are schools where the elites, diplomats and royals send their children protected?

   • “TEL AVIV — It’s an inescapable fact that school shootings are rare outside the United States, and virtually unheard of in Israel. So, what are the Israelis doing differently?

     At one high school in Israel, we saw a typical scene — an armed guard outside the main entrance. Since 1974 there have only been half a dozen terror attacks on Israeli schools. Principal Nati Stern says there are about 145 teachers at the school, and none are armed with guns.

     “We have at least one security guard,” Stern said. “I think it provides us with everything we need.”

     Every gun owner in Israel has to go through training. For security guards, they have to undergo training every four months.

     Like many instructors, Sharon Gat is ex-military. He says tough background checks also make schools safer here.

     We told him that there’s a perception in the U.S. that everyone in Israel has a gun.

     “Very false,” he replied. “Gun laws in America are much more loose than gun laws in Israel.”

     In Israel it can take up to three months to get a gun. For starters, you have to be over 27, unless you’ve served in the military. Then you must prove that your job requires a gun, and get a doctor to sign off. Doctors like Omri Ben Ezra also check for mental illness. The final step is at the gun range.“

     https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/how-schools-in-israel-keep-students-safe-and-prevent-mass-shootings/#app

     Amazing! Israel has many of the exact requirements that Miner49er has advocated, how fascinating!

     Mandatory training before any citizen carries a gun, minimum age of 27 unless you’ve served in the military, includes a doctors check up with a mental health evaluation and training concludes with a proficiency test on the live fire range.

     Where have I heard all that before… Oh yeah, in my frequent postings on this forum.

     Another nice thing about Israel, they have universal healthcare and abortions are legal…

     • Fascinating. Just got told by SCOTUS that owning a firearm is a civil right and miner, true to his fascist leanings, attempts to justify putting all sorts of roadblocks on exercising a basic human and civil right.

       miner. You constantly attempt to reduce human and civil rights to .gov permission. Remember for the future. Restricting rights was your idea.

       • No, just like with the first amendment, there are reasonable limits to an absolute exercise of any of our liberties.

         Or do you believe that the first amendment’s freedom of the press would allow me to post your photo on posters saying that you molested my child and you’re a Satan worshiper, in your neighborhood?

       • @Miner49

         You do not seem to understand the first amendment. But that’s not a surprise with you.

         Owning, possessing, using a firearm is not longer a second class right that can be subjected to arbitrary infringement. It is a civil right on par with the first amendment and all the others. No one is claiming there are not some limits – it is you trying to keep it a second class right and now that your standard arguments have been eviscerated by the Bruen decision you are raging about trying to apply the same old brainwashing.

       • Reasonable limits? Of course the oppressors claim the rights to impose ‘reasonable’ limits on the oppressed rights.

         miner. You are a fascist.

       • Do you believe that the first amendment’s freedom of the press would allow me to post your photo on posters saying that you molested my child and you’re a Satan worshiper, in your neighborhood?

       • Here minor. I doubt they take morons so you may be out of luck. They have a surplus of mohammadians to fill that role.

         https://lawoffice.org.il/en/israel-immigration-rules/

       • Wow, miner. Just wow. Desperation looks good on you. You fascists are not gracious losers, are you?

       • Miner you do know libel is not covered as protected 1A speech.

         The 2A does not allow murder or criminal use of a firearm.

         It seems all the Amendments do not allow for criminal conduct. Otherwise known as reasonable limits.

       • Yo, folks! The First Amendment’s protections for “freedom of the press”, as an example only, are that “CONGRESS shall make no law … ” That allows a LOT of “reasonable restrictions”, including any damn thing at ALL that State legislators wish to apply. 2A’s restriction is “Shall not be infringed”, allowing NO restrictions whatsoever, from anyone, ever, without a prior Constitutional Amendment. 2A is one sentence, 27 words long, could not be clearer, yet hundreds of thousands of pages have been written to explain why it does not mean exactly what it says. We are not that stupid, we understand the hand of tyranny on our necks. Back off or suffer the consequences.

       • No, MinorIQ, there are NOT “reasonable limits” to ANY other rights PROTECTED by the Constitution and BoR (and don’t even DARE come at me with that idiot “you can’t shout ‘FIRE’ in a crowded theater” bulls*** – although you ARE ignorant enough to attempt it).

         What is the ONE nigh-on inflexible rule of SCOTUS in re: the First Amendment (hint: If you weren’t an ignorant Leftist/fascist bag of douche, you would know the answer)???? NO PRIOR RESTRAINT.

         YES, you gormless tw@t, people are responsible for their IMPROPER EXERCISE of rights . . . no s***, Sherlock. So, if I abuse/misuse my 2A rights, and shoot up a school or a shopping mall or a grocery store . . . I am responsible for my actions.

         There IS a process already in place to take “dangerous people” off the streets – it is generically referred to in the legal profession as “involuntary institutionalization”, or being declared mentally incompetent. It requires notice, an evidentiary hearing, the right to confront your accuser/the “evidence”, the right to counsel, etc. Here in America, that is known as “due process”, and includes the right to confront your accuser, present evidence, be represented by counsel, NOT have your property seized UNTIL you have been foung guilty/culpable by a proper proceeding in which DUE PROCESS has been observed.

         Hmm . . . very much like unto trying to prosecute someone for misusing their First Amendment rights, or . . . and I’m just spitballin’, here . . . BEING ACTUALLY ACCUSED OF A CRIME.

         Why are you so stupid, MinorIQ??? Is it a genetic flaw, a learned behavior, a mental condition, terrible indoctrination/conditioning, or are you just a halfwit??? Inquiring minds want to know.

         You continue your streak of being too stupid to insult.

     • A number of the families of the Stoneman Douglas victims have proposed arming teachers, though their calls haven’t gotten nearly as much media attention as the band of students calling for more strict gun control. Specifically, those proposing arming teachers are only proposing allowing those who are already armed to carry in the classroom, such as someone with a military or law enforcement background. In Israel, where everyone is required to serve in the military, this is already the case. And the results? Spectacular. When terrorists attacked a school in Maalot in 1974, instead of declaring every school a gun-free zone, Israel passed a law mandating armed security in schools, provided weapons training to teachers, and, even today, runs frequent active shooter drills. There have been only two school shootings since then, and both have ended with teachers killing the terrorists.
       (https://thepoliticalinsider.com/israel-armed-teachers/)

       • “only proposing allowing those who are already armed to carry in the classroom, such as someone with a military or law enforcement background. In Israel, where everyone is required to serve in the military, this is already the case“

         No, teachers are not armed in the Israeli schools. They do employ armed security guards, who undergo training every four months. See my earlier post.

         https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/how-schools-in-israel-keep-students-safe-and-prevent-mass-shootings/#app

       • MADDMAXX,

         No, I would not limit “right to carry” to former military/LEO (in my experience, most LEOs spend WAY less time on the range than many civilians). If we limit “right to carry” to those who qualify, ANY teacher should have the right to qualify, whether ex-military, ex-LEO, or just a teacher who wants to learn/demonstrate their skills. In this instance (since they are PUBLIC EMPLOYEES), we can limit their 2A rights IN THE SCHOOL.

         But I’m getting tired of this ongoing nonsense of assuming that LEOs (or even a large percentage of ex-military – I’m assuming you are aware that a significant percentage of military MOSs require only basic training, and have minimal continuing qualification obligations) are “experts” in using firearms. That is errant horsepucky.

         I used to shoot at a range in “the South Bay” in the LA area. There are FEW ranges in LA, for obvious reasons. The range I frequented had a lot of local LEOs who also frequented it. While there WERE exceptions, overall I was . . . less than impressed?? . . . with the average of the shooting skills of the LEOs I saw there. And these were the guys that chose to go ON THEIR OWN TIME to a local range . . . which means they were above the average local cop. (My younger son dated a girl in high school whose father was a local LEO who used to BRAG about the fact that the only time he fired his duty weapon was his annual requirement to qualify . . . and he was proud of that. WTF???)

         Cops and ex-military are as good with weapons as they prove themselves to be, and not more. Sure, any field grunt who’s seen active service is “qualified”. An ex-supply officer, who passed basic and maintained “minimum proficiency”?? Not so much. Your average beat cop? Don’t make me laugh. A SWAT cop?? Can probably shoot circles around me.

         Assuming all LEOs and ex-military are equal, and competent, is ignoring reality. And EXCLUDING civilians who actually take it seriously, train, and maintain competence is just stupid.

         Most teachers wouldn’t choose to carry in school, and that’s fine. NO ONE should be required to carry. But any teacher who chooses to, gets trained, and maintains skills? Should be allowed to carry if they want.

     • do us all a favour and MOVE to Isreal. Multiple problems solved. Can I help you pack?

       • That’s impossibrul Tionico, with that grossly inflated big head so firmly wedged shoulders deep up his ass, pretty sure you couldn’t fit even an extra quark in there.

       • Tionico,

         You are assuming, sir, that the state of Israel would even allow his sorry @$$ in . . . a doubtful proposition. Idiots like MinorIQ and dacian the stupid can exist in the US because we have developed a society that coddles incompetent halfwits, who couldn’t survive without a wealthy society to support them. Ignore them; Darwin will see to them, soon enough.

4. Heard it all before elizabeth k. anthony. Anytime a nitwit uses the Gun Control buzzword “Gun Violence” it says a lot about them. The question should be, “Does ‘Softening Schools With Liberal Manure Make Them Safer? And from the looks of things…Apparently Not.

5. Let’s be clear on one thing:

   Security cameras do NOTHING to harden a school, UNLESS there is a guard monitoring those cameras. All the cameras will do, is to record what happened, so that we know who screwed up, where, and when.

   I can perform any act imaginable, or unimaginable, in front of a camera, and the camera will do nothing to stop even the most depraved of actions. Nothing. If you doubt me, just do a search on the internet for snuff films, lolita child porn, or any other porn you might imagine. The camera will record faithfully, but it prevents nothing.

   I’ve been laughing at banks for 30 years or more, relying on cameras for ‘security’.

   • Security cameras do NOTHING to harden a school, UNLESS there is a guard monitoring those cameras.

     Read the account of the Parkland School incident. They may have had cameras, but they also had something else.. a school official sitting in an office with LOTS of windows, overlooking the prking lot, and who WATCHED as young male, known to him as Nicholas Cruz, and whom he ALSO knew had a court order prohibiting that named individual from ever entering the gounds of that school, whom he then obserived to get out of a vehicle, take into his hands what said school officlal recognised as a clean Cabelas rifle case, and comprehended that said soft rifle case contained items of signficant weight. He then observed that known individual, carrying what appeared to be a rifle and multiple ammunitoni feeding devices (which tirned out to be all ten rund capacity magazines, so much for capacity limits on magazines, eh? ) walk INTO the same building in which he was sitting.. and DID NOTHiNG. He would not even call or text anyone else what he had just observed.

     Hardening schools? Dont make my laugh. One cannot harden such a school any better than having live body observers positioined in critical places……

     but ONE armed teacher could easily have taken out that dirtbag as he entered the first floor where he started shooting. But no one inside the building was armed… the only one who HAD been armed went outside to wet his uniform pants as he hunkered down, out of range of the shooter, outside till the shooting stopped. Hardening? The best hardening money could buy did NOTHING.

     Let adult staff who work there every day take special training and arm themselves just like they do everwhere they go EXCEPT the schools where they work. Ohio does that, and have had NOT ONE gun related incident in any district where this is in place, over some fifteen years of the programme. NOT ONE incident, let alone not one death.

     • “DID NOTHiNG“

       Interesting, I would really appreciate you sharing your source or citation for that assertion, thanks!

       • Miner, as I said the other day, and previous to that: your tedious, tired charade is about as low as a person can go without committing a crime. For your own sake, have at least some modicum of self respect and just stop. And don’t bother blinking your eyes innocently and saying “what charade, Rider? I’m just trying to understand… blah blah copy/paste blah blah”. You’re a despicable little toad, or is it toady, for acting this way, miner. I know it, we know it and you know it as well. Stop being an annoying child. You don’t even believe the twisted crap you spew out daily. Look in the mirror miner, are you proud of what you are? Go to your room, sit in the corner facing the wall and consider your life and what you’ve become. Then bow your head miner, bow your head in shame. Don’t bother to reply as you’ve got nothing worth hearing. Nothing at all.

       • Rider,

         MinorIQ TRIES to maintain that he is all about logic and evidence (and sometimes cites some “evidence”), but he is mostly a wanna-be sarcastic @$$hole. He is obviously (hat tip Stone and Parker) “in love with the smell of his own farts”.

         He thinks he’s a wit . . . and he’s half right.

6. Hardening of a school doesn’t necessarily make it safer because then a potential shooter simply looks at the next weakest link in the chain. Have you ever been to an elementary school in the afternoon when they are loading up the school buses? If a potential school shooter began firing into that crowd it would be absolute chaos and the body count would probably eclipse any school shooting to date by a wide margin. There’s also been a very large proliferation of indoor sporting complexes. With a little foresight someone could simply block every exit and then start shooting everyone in the building and that building is chuck full of kids playing soccer. Fortunately the ones I go to do not have signs prohibiting concealed or open carry and considering how many parents are there odds are pretty good that the shooter will have some bullets coming back the other direction.

7. If hardening schools doesn’t make them safer. Why are ‘We the People’ wasting Tax Dollars hardening the Capitol in D.C. or 1000’s of other Federal and State building all over the Nation? Why are Tax $$$$ being wasted protecting Political figures and their homes? Why are their lives any more important than the lives of children? Inquiring minds would like to know.

   • Your children don’t matter, your rulers do.

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OshNahVo9-c

   • There has yet to be a fortress built that can’t be penetrated. The purpose of hardening a school is the same reason body armor is used. It buys you time to respond. No battle is ever won by defense. Offensive action preferably armed offensive action is what eliminates a threat. Adopting a bunker mentality is a Surefire recipe for failure but there are minimal steps that can be addressed through building codes to make the target less easy 2 attack. In reality spending billions of dollars trying to stop something that happens so rarely is not really cost-effective.

   • Political Theater. RINO theater.

8. So beyond the “no don’t take any effective steps to restrict access or provide defense for your children that is counter productive somehow” were there any points worth reading?

   • No.

     • After getting a free moment to read …………..yeah I could have stopped at this no.

9. Better up-armor all those big yellow buses also.

10. As much as maximum security prisons protect inmates.

    You want safety? Provide it yourself.

11. The only solution that will work individually for each family is to remove your children and grandchildren from these cesspools of indoctrination. The .gov is not going to do anything effective to protect your children. In fact, they’ve shown repeatedly that they will sacrifice your children in the name of their god which is the .gov. Anyone who has the will can home school their children. All the “faculty” at a home school can be armed and they love their students more than any teacher or police officer could. You can even arm some of the students!

12. “It could come on top of US$1 billion in proposed funding to hire more school counselors, nurses, social workers and school psychologists.”

    Not saying these are not important, but they do no stop, thwart, deter school shootings when they happen and neither do anti-gun or other laws.

    For example, I can not find a single documented instance where a school shooter said “damn it, the school has a nurse so I can’t shoot it up” or “Damn it, there’s a law against murder so i can’t shoot up a school”.

    Hardening is very important, immediate armed response availability even more so. In school armed security, yes, but armed school staff as well forms an on scene overwhelming force multiplier and line of defense when armed security fails or is defeated.

    At a minimum let armed parents and family members volunteer to be on campus during school hours and events. There are many retired military family members with kids or grand kids or neices and nephwrs in school here locally that have been trying to let schools let them do this. Its an already trained and equipped force willing and ready to stand-to to protect schools.

    • “I can not find a single documented instance where a school shooter said “damn it, the school has a nurse so I can’t shoot it up”

      You are being intellectually dishonest.

      No one is suggesting that a school counselor should be the first responder to an active shooter, you’re just being a dick to suggest that.

      The ideas that school counselors and psychologists could get in front of the violence before it happens, such as in Adam Lanza or Nicholas Cruz’s case.

      Teachers and counselors often know who the troubled kids are, and a more comprehensive, focused and consistent mental health response could avert these tragedies by making sure the kids had counseling and treatment to address their disorder.

      Just kicking the kid out of school isn’t the answer, just like here in Uvalde, they’ll eventually return to attempt a conclusion to their unresolved issues.

      • And u miss the context of what I posted.

        • No. He didn’t. miner has an agenda. He is about destroying human and civil rights.

        • And WTF is wrong with you Miner. I never said they would be the defense. I was speaking in context of the money being spent because its being spent in the name of “hardening” and “protection” which all these social workers and nurses etc… are not.

          Like dacian and Albert m, you seriously need to discover what context means and improve your reading comprehension skills and stop cherry picking out of context to make some stupid posting to “hear” your self talk.

        • https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pilpul

        • “protection” which all these social workers and nurses etc… are not.”

          And there I disagree, are you familiar with the saying “an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure”?

          No doubt, if all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail, if you’re a law-enforcement officer with a gun everything needs to be assaulted, dominated and controlled.

          Just like toothpaste is protection against cavities, school counselors are protection against mentally ill youth becoming unstable and lashing out against their peers and elders.

          So tell me, how should the school/community/law enforcement handle an individual like Adam Lanza?

        • @Miner

          stop contradicting your self.

          First you basically accuse me of being ‘ intellectually dishonest’ on the same subject by you intentionally taking something out of its context.

          Now you argue that “counselors, nurses, social workers and school psychologists” are indeed “protection” against my original context point of an actual shooting in progress with “they do no stop, thwart, deter school shootings when they happen and neither do anti-gun or other laws.”

          stop being so stupid, learn to read and comprehend.

        • “they do no stop, thwart, deter school shootings“

          You continue to be wrong, school counselors and psychologists do in fact offer an opportunity to “deter school shootings”.

          Again, how should the school/community/law-enforcement handle an individual like Adam Lanza?

        • Jay-bird, it’s the conservatives who are taking our rights.

          Here’s where they’re headed, outlawing contraceptives for married couples, laws against particular sex acts between adults and same sex marriage.

          “In a concurring opinion, conservative Justice Clarence Thomas indicated that the Supreme Court should reconsider previous rulings that established the right to contraception, same-sex marriage, and protections for same-sex relationships. 

          “We should reconsider all of this Court’s substantive due process precedents, including Griswold, Lawrence, and Obergfell,” Thomas wrote.
          The three cases are fundamental rulings that established key reproductive, sexual, and civic rights for Americans. Griswold v. Connecticut (1965) established the right of married couples to purchase contraception without government restriction. Lawrence v. Texas (2003) established that criminal punishments for those who commit “sodomy” were unconstitutional. Obergefell v. Hodges (2015) ruled that the right to marriage was guaranteed to same-sex couples. The targeting of these decisions by Thomas indicates claims by conservatives that the interpretation of the due process clause and “right to privacy” used to overturn Roe v. Wade will be limited to rulings on abortion access are not to be believed.”

        • miner, get your mind right. You take our rights we take yours. See how that works. Did you think you would run roughshod over our rights and never face payback? I already told you in just the last day or two. You’ve made the taking and restricting of rights OK. You did that and the rest of you fascists have cleared the way for us to retaliate.

          Here’s a clue, miner. Don’t throw rocks at me and get pissed when I throw them back.

13. Does locking kids in with a bunch of leftoid marxist groomers who want to mutilate them make them safer? I dunno, man.

    • This right here. Folks are arguing over the best shark repellent, when they can just not drop their kids off the boat out past the reef every day.

14. It would be so much easier and more productive to just illuminate gun free school zones.

    • We going to hang flares over the schools? 🙂

    • They are already illuminated. That designation “gun free zone” is like a big spotlight shining on the school that says (for the vast majority of schools) “nope, no guns here” and school shooters know it. Its basically the same for other areas that are “gun free zones”, mass shooters and other criminals fully endorse the “gun free zones” laws being enforced. The signs may as well say “Special today on easy targets with little to no opposition”.

      • I agree. That was a typo though. I meant ‘eliminate’. This phones auto correct.

        • Auto incorrect?

    • “It would be so much easier and more productive to just illuminate gun free school zones.”

      And paint them Da-Glo reflective orange.

      And rename them all, “Safe Haven #…”

      • It’ll be like the “rainbow farting unicorns in the land of Skittles trees”.

15. Almost all the school murderers were known by police or their parents to be violent and dangerous. None were treated, either on an outpatient basis or in confinement. Some might have been deterred with treatment. Maybe not, but if treatment doesn’t help, why bother with it?

    We now have more lunatics running schools than we have in lunatic asylums. In any case, it’s not possible to keep dangerous lunatics from getting inside schools unless they are removed from the environment, at least temporarily or in certainly cases, permanently.

16. They’re already locked down like prisons. Want to lock something nobody locked, like the street in front of the place? This problem will not be solved by “hardening” anything. Hell in most places kids aren’t even allowed to walk to school any more. And some people here are old enough to remember walking to school every day nine miles uphill both ways.

    It can be solved over time by rejecting the politically imposed dissolution of American culture via “uncontrolled” (that’s what they want you to think) immigration and a return to a more homogenous culture and a return to the rules and laws AND the moral standards that were in place 40 or 50 years ago.

17. Amazing….

    June 24, 2022 At 11:50
    Your comment is awaiting moderation

    They’re already locked down like prisons. Want to lock something nobody locked, like the street in front of the place? This problem will not be solved by “hardening” anything. Hell in most places kids aren’t even allowed to walk to school any more. And some people here are old enough to remember walking to school every day nine miles uphill both ways.

    It can be solved over time by rejecting the politically imposed dissolution of American culture via “uncontrolled” (that’s what they want you to think) immigration and a return to a more homogenous culture and a return to the rules and laws AND the moral standards that were in place 40 or 50 years ago.

    • It was prob your use of the word “uncontrolled”. These radical concepts and verbage cry out for investigating. Be happy a gun and 2A Freedom oriented blog sees fit to Moderate™ our speech. I mean, where might we be without Big Brother to ride herd on us? Could’ve been the word “homogenous” too… we live in sensitive times.

    • Unreal. I went to edit my comment with this addition: Could’ve been the word “h.genius” too [real word modified to avoid modifying]… we live in sensitive times”. I mean really, they grabbed your comment, and mine, for that. Fuck. Dan, seriously, fix this annoying crap. What are you guys thinking?

      • Rider,

        “What are you guys thinking?”

        Umm, . . . they’re not. WordPress has “an algorithm” for moderation, and SUPPOSEDLY they rely on the “algorithm”. Problem is, algorithms are consistent – they may be stupid, but they are consistent. TTAG’s moderation is anything BUT consistent. The only rational conclusion is that they are (i) too lazy, (ii) too cheap, or (iii) too stupid to institute a REAL moderation regime. They hide behind this “algorithm” bulls*** to avoid admitting their lazimess/cheapness/stupidity.

        I try to avoid spelling out curse words. Other than that? F*** ’em. I post what I want. If they want to moderate it, they are welcome to do so. They are also invited to osculate my anal sphincter.

      • The real curiosity about being “moderated”, is who/what is doing it? Dan hasn’t spoken on the matter. Could be people, could be algorithm. Could be TTAG; could be WordPress, or CloudFlare.

        Regarding “moderation” there is a certain advantage to not publishing “the rules”. Once published, people will work to effectively evade “the rules”. Unpublished, it is all guess work, which serves the scheme of moderation. Try submitting a few lines of gibberish, salted with words you think likely to trigger the filters; see what happens.

        • No, Sam, I don’t think it could be “an algorithm”, since an algorithm, by definition, treats all equivalent inputs in the same way, and TTAGs “moderation policy” is anything BUT “consistent”.

          No, as I commented above, the “moderators” on TTAG are simply too lazy, cheap, or stupid (but embrace the power of “and”) to actually institute a rational moderation policy.

18. They’re already locked down like prisons. Want to lock something nobody locked, like the street in front of the place? This problem will not be solved by “hardening” anything. In most places kids aren’t even allowed to walk to school any more. And some people here are old enough to remember walking to school every day nine miles uphill both ways.

    It can be solved over time by rejecting the politically imposed dissolution of American culture via “uncontrolled” (that’s what they want you to think) immigration and a return to a more homogenous culture and a return to the rules and laws AND the moral standards that were in place 40 or 50 years ago.

19. So you moderate any comment you disagree with now?

    • RGP, see your/my last comment/reply. Apparently the offices of TTAG are decorated in bright rainbow colors and the staff vote a straight dem ticket. Who woulda thought? Unbelievable. Hey, Zimmerman, stop outsourcing your big brother anti 1A algorithm to the liberals! I mean wth is up with that? It’s out of hand, long ago.

20. And sometimes there are no warning signs and there’s no way to harden the school to prevent a determined assault, even by “rank amateurs”:

    “1998
    March 24
    A school shooting in Jonesboro, Arkansas, kills five

    Mitchell Johnson, 13, and Andrew Golden, 11, shoot their classmates and teachers in Jonesboro, Arkansas on March 24, 1998. Golden, the younger of the two boys, asked to be excused from his class, pulled a fire alarm and then ran to join Johnson in a wooded area 100 yards away from the school’s gym. As the students streamed out of the building, Johnson and Golden opened fire and killed four students and a teacher. Ten other children were wounded.

    The two boys were caught soon afterward. In their possession were thirteen fully loaded firearms, including three semi-automatic rifles, and 200 rounds of ammunition. Their stolen van had a stockpile of supplies as well as a crossbow and several hunting knives. All of the weapons were taken from the Golden family’s personal arsenal. Both of the boys had been raised around guns. Andrew Golden belonged to a local gun club and sometimes competed in shooting contests.“

    You know, these kids sound like the kids of many I read about on this forum. Firearm enthusiast parents, purchasing guns for their kids and encouraging their participation in shooting events.

    What could possibly go wrong…

    https://www.history.com/.amp/this-day-in-history/a-school-shooting-in-jonesboro-arkansas-kills-five

    • Typical fascist. Millions of kids are raised in homes with firearms and nothing happens that is bad. Cherry pick a handful of times bad happens and try to restrict human and civil rights based on his own manipulations of the facts.

      Do you have a white hood in your closet there in WV, miner?

      • Thanks for reading my post, that’s the first step towards a general enlightenment in your thinking.

        • Scroll back and read mine, asshole. Enlighten your own self. But I know you won’t, you’re too far gone, you’ve about hit bottom. You’re a full on piece of shit, ‘miner’, nothing more. Sleazy doesn’t even begin to cover it. Not even close.

    • Hey, MinorIQ, so you are all about “prior restraint” and “preventing” imaginary crimes by people you . . . SUSPECT may commit a crime?? Typical Leftist/fascist.

      How about this? There is already an existing procedure to have persons who are mentally incompetent and/or “a threat to themselves or the public” institutionalized. Oh, yeah, but it requires that their teachers/counselors actually REPORT bad/deviant behavior . . . which your hero Barry Soetoro and his Leftist/fascist DoE PENALIZE them for.

      Go micturate up a cable, MinorIQ, you are too stupid to breathe.

21. Home school yer kids…that’s the ticket!

22. Schools can be “hardened” but there are both practical and psychological limits on how hard you can make a school without making it look and feel like a SuperMax prison.

    Most commercial products offered to “harden” schools are primarily money-making schemes that prey on the administrators’ feeling that they need to “do something” (mostly they feel a need to “do something” to reduce the criticism when there is a problem).

    There are several simple steps that can be taken to “harden” schools at minimal cost, minimal inconvenience, and little or no visible change — the simplest and most obvious is exterior doors that only open from the inside unless you have a key.

    There are two problems with locking doors — BOTH of which were seen at Uvalde — (1) the locks need to actually work which means checking them regularly and fixing them promptly if they fail; and (2) people need to not prop doors open for their convenience. Both problems are mostly a matter of adjusting attitudes (although maintenance of the locks does involve some small cost as well).

    The next step up is to provide the same sort of door locks on every classroom and office.

    The third step is to equip each door with a loud signal if the door is opened from the inside by using the panic bar instead of a key, code, or card.

    ALL these methods of hardening doors are already common across retail environments. The hardware is reliable, attractive options are available, and they aren’t really expensive, especially during new construction or renovation.

23. No. It just gives me insight into the mind of a dedicated fascist.

    • Supposed to be a reply to miner49er above.

      • Yeah, jwm, MinorIQ has never met a fascist program he didn’t embrace . . . because he (laughably) thinks he’s one of the “smart folks” who will be in charge “when the revolution comes”. What’s hilarious is that idiots like MinorIQ will be among the FIRST lined up against the wall and shot after “the revolution”.

        Look up “useful idiots” . . . you’ll see a picture of MinorIQ. And he fits the definition . . . except for the “useful” part.

24. 2.7 billion annually? hmmmmmm, we just gifted 32 years worth of school security to the Taliban and another 20 years to Ukraine… But that stuff is WAY more important than a few kids.

    • “we just gifted 32 years worth of school security to the Taliban“

      Yes, the terms of the surrender agreement Donald Trump negotiated with the terrorist Taliban were pretty terrible.

      • And since no president, ever, has modified an agreement or thrown one out because it sucks gives joe burden a free pass for botching his job, right?

        Long after he’s dead and gone you’ll still get cold sweats when Trumps name is mentioned.

        • “thrown one out because it sucks”

          So you’re admitting trump’s negotiated surrender deal with the terrorist Taliban sucked, I believe we’re making progress here!

        • I’m making progress, miner. You appear to be stuck in a deep rut. Still defending joe burden even though these things happened on his watch.

        • “even though these things happened on his watch“

          And Donald Trump is responsible for these deaths because they “happened on his watch”?

          “US soldiers killed in Niger were outgunned, ‘left behind’ in hunt for ISIS leader
          They were part of a largely inexperienced and lightly-armed team.
          ByJames Gordon Meek
          May 3, 2018, 1:05 PM ET
          New details from Niger ambushA senior U.S. intelligence official saw early warning signs that something was wrong as they went to meet with the village elder in Tongo Tongo, Niger, on Oct. 4.Gaston de Cardenas/AFP/Getty Images
          Four Army special operations soldiers killed in action during an ambush in Niger last October were part of a largely inexperienced and lightly-armed team outmatched by ISIS fighters who exploited bad decisions by U.S. commanders, families of the fallen soldiers and other sources briefed on the military investigation told ABC News.

          “They were left on their own and it was The Alamo. They were abandoned,” the parent of one of the American commandos who died told ABC News. “The sad thing is, they didn’t realize they’d been left behind, and by the time the other guys attempted to get to them, it was probably too late, and they’d been killed.”

          https://abcnews.go.com/amp/International/us-soldiers-killed-niger-outgunned-left-hunt-isis/story?id=54909240

      • I don’t even have a count on how many people have called you out on this absolute BULLS***, MajorStupidity.

        Trump had a basic agreement WITH THE AFGHAN GOVERNMENT to withdraw. Strange, I don’t recall him actually pulling the trigger on the “withdrawal” part. Nor do I recall him leaving dozens, more likely hundreds, of US citizens stranded in Afghanistan as the Taliban took over.

        MajorStupidity, if you didn’t have idiot Leftist, partisan talking points, you would literally be bereft of speech. I’m curious . . . is it actually physically painful to be that abjectly stupid???

25. If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers.

    Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow

    The question isn’t about hardening our schools. The question is what is the most effective way to protect our precious children? I firmly believe that removing them from the government indoctrination system that we call Public School is the only way to end school shootings. Any family that wants to can homeschool their children. You just have to have the will.

26. 1st: Teach children how to read.
    2nd: Get bigger Gunm Free Zone signs.

    • What could go wrong?

27. Miner49er

    You misunderstood my meaning when I said the officers had a choice about standing around. They had a choice because standing around had no ill effect on them personally. Had they been directly fired on and then they stood around it would have had an ill effect on them. Unfortunately many police officers are quite institutionalized and they will be more than happy to sit around with their thumb up their rears waiting for El Jefe to give them the go-ahead. Been there and seen that firsthand. Not only would they not go they actively intervened and stopped other people from making a move. Keeping pressure on an opponent is absolutely critical because it forces them to focus all of their attention on you and in toe to toe gun fights the results are binary, you either kill, or you are killed. That’s why it is so critical to arm people in the schools if we want to mitigate the damage inflicted if these events continue to happen.

    • “Had they been directly fired on… “

      I’ve seen reporting that indicated the shooter encountered 2 LEO when he initially entered the school, and fired at them. It is unclear if they actually returned fire or just unassed the area.

      • Yeah, and subsequent reporting proved that to be false. Are you genetically programmed to be a partisan liar, MinorIQ????

28. “Hardening schools” isn’t an answer, because . . . there is no “answer”. Hardening schools will have some protective/preventive effect . . . which must be balanced against the impact on the actual function of the school. Arming teachers and staff who CHOOSE to be armed would have some protective/preventive effect. Adding “school resource officers” (who were better trained and more motivated than the cretins we seem to have, now) would have some protective/preventive effect. Requiring teachers/staff/counselors to actually REPORT dangerous behavior (including to the NICS systemt) would have some preventive effect. There IS no “magic bullet” (certainly not any “gun control” proposal I have ever seen!), but there are incremental steps that can be taken.

    At the end of the day, a sufficiently crazy/motivated potential school shooter can (i) acquire a weapon, (ii) get into a school, and (iii) kill people. The response will determine how many people, if any, are killed. Hardening schools would be a good “first step” in a calculated process to REDUCE the likelihood of school mass shootings. Anyone who claims they have a “solution” to school shootings is either a liar or a moron.

    • “There IS no “magic bullet” (certainly not any “gun control” proposal I have ever seen!),”

      Actually, there is, and you have seen it over and over (and reject it): total firearm confiscation.

      Obviously, school shootings are not a thing in schools embedded in high crime locations, so the criminal element doesn’t need to be disarmed. School shootings happen only in areas where legal gun owners live. Shootings done by children of legal gun owners. Ergo, taking firearms from legal gun owners will end school shootings. And even end mass shootings in places nice people, the right people, go.

      • As long as School Administrators and Faculty entertain the “It can’t happen here” mentality no amount of security will ever afford protection for the students and then when “it does happen here” it’s too late.

      • Sam,

        ISWYDT!! As I have noted before, my friend, you are one CYNICAL mofo!!

        Interestingly, while MinorIQ and dacian the stupid lie about it. MOST Leftist/fascists (c.f., Dianne Feinstein and Robert Francis “Beto the Fake Mexican” O’Rourke) are pretty up front about their goals – “Hell yes, we’re coming for your AR-15s, your AK47s”.

        • “…you are one CYNICAL mofo!!”

          I beg your pardon…..

          I am not CYLINDRICAL, I am rotund.

29. “School Security” is no better then their thickest window glass. It appears that LE won’t attempt a shot through a classroom window, in fear of hitting an innocent, while BGs can continue the slaughter. LE either no present or failure to immediately engage, all to often expands the killers scope of opertunity. Every school mass shooting is always a suprise to those being attacked. Those under direct surprise attack can either fight back or accept the slaughter.
    ARM Teacher’s and School Staff because THEY MUST protect those in their care. Even if they hate firearms and are unwilling to protect themselves with a gun: they must protect those children entrusted to them. We repeatedly hear school boards, administration and teachers speaking in “possessive terms” that students are “their Kids”. That’s laughable on several levels especially those that refuse to protect kids to the extent a parent would. School Staff (all) who block bullets with their own bodies are heros but that does not stop the attack. Staff must be allowed to have the tools necessary to deter, slow and stop mass murderers.

30. I agree with the opinion that regardless of the level of security in the school, it is the employees who can ensure the safety of students in the event of a fall in the first line of defense. This is a very serious issue, which is why I chose the topic of gun control for my college essay. If you read the argumentative essays at https://gradesfixer.com/free-essay-examples/gun-control/ you will realize that there are many opinions to agree with. Some advocate the distribution of weapons to everyone, others believe that the presence of weapons in the school will increase the level of threat. One thing is clear, the life of our children is most important, and therefore the issue must be resolved as soon as possible.

    • “One thing is clear, the life of our children is most important, and therefore the issue must be resolved as soon as possible.”

      A nice, comfortable, simple thought.

      When planning a campaign (or any project), one must first know the intended outcome. In this instance, what is the acceptable number of casualties acceptable if a shooter does appear at a school? Let’s select zero (0), because no other number can be logically, or rationally, defended against any other number of casualties.

      Now that we know that “success” is zero casualties, how long is that number to be maintained? I don’t have a recommendation, but a timeline is necessary.

      With the two data points above, we must know how widespread the threat is. Another instance where limiting the data is subject to subjective answers.

      Now that we have the footprint of the threat, what is the source? Firearms? There are claims that the number of firearms is four hundred million (400,000,000), and the number of legal gun owners one hundred million (100,000,000). Considering those numbers, there are an untold number of firearms in the black market. The only valid conclusion is that all firearms, from all locations, must be seized (and there remains the potential for guns made from common hardware store materials). An important question is the acceptable number of casualties (law enforcement and residents) in confiscating ALL firearms in existence? Remember, any number above zero is a rationalization, subject to subjective criteria.

      Then we come to the acceptable number of casualties experienced in school shootings while the firearm confiscation is under way.

      All of this is to say, “For every complex problem there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.”

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