courtesy Armed with Reason

You don’t say…

The Department of Justice just updated its decades-old study asking criminals where they got the guns they used in committing the crime for which they were currently incarcerated. After asking 287,000 prisoners in 2016 where they got the gun they used, 90 percent of them “did not obtain it from a retail source” and less than one percent obtained it from a gun show.

The survey’s results are very similar to the study the DOJ completed back in 1997. Back then, 93 percent of criminals obtained the guns they used illegally.

– Bob Adelmann for The New American, Ninety Percent of Guns Used in Crime Not Obtained From Gun Stores/Shows

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51 COMMENTS

  1. This is consistent with past results and the expectations of anyone with experience in the firearms world.

    Unfortunately the gun grabbers are also consistent in ignoring it.

    • Exactly, except they are only using the criminals as an excuse. Just like Pelosi using lack of safety as an excuse for Trump not giving the State of the Union address because of the Govt shutdown. She never asked the Secret Service and nothing has changed in their preparedness for that night.

      We could have a huge reduction in gun violence and they will still push to take our firearms because they want to disarm the public. It’s always been a Socialist first step to their controlling more of the public’s rights.

      • If it gets down to confiscating guns it is not a Socialist thing to do. That’s exactly the opposite. There is an awful lot wrong with the Socialism and Communism of Marx and Engles and their entire utopian nightmare, but on gun control they were entirely on our side.

        What Marx and Engles had to say about the common people having arms:

        Excerpt from “Address of the Central Committee to the Communist League”
        Karl Marx and Frederick Engels
        London, March 1850

        “To be able forcefully and threateningly to oppose this party, whose betrayal of the workers will begin with the very first hour of victory, the workers must be armed and organized. The whole proletariat must be armed at once with muskets, rifles, cannon and ammunition, and the revival of the old- style citizens’ militia, directed against the workers, must be opposed. Where the formation of this militia cannot be prevented, the workers must try to organize themselves independently as a proletarian guard, with elected leaders and with their own elected general staff; they must try to place themselves not under the orders of the state authority but of the revolutionary local councils set up by the workers. Where the workers are employed by the state, they must arm and organize themselves into special corps with elected leaders, or as a part of the proletarian guard. Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary. The destruction of the bourgeois democrats’ influence over the workers, and the enforcement of conditions which will compromise the rule of bourgeois democracy, which is for the moment inevitable, and make it as difficult as possible— these are the main points which the proletariat and therefore the League must keep in mind during and after the approaching uprising.”

        • They’re in favor of guns to facilitate their revolution, but they’ll want to confiscate them once in power to hinder the next revolution.

        • Yes but at that point it ceases to be Socialist, Communist or Marxist. This is a key failing in the thinking of Marx, Engles, all of them. To make their utopian revolution succeed it isn’t simply the wealthy capitalists and their paid armies that must be overcome. The workers themselves quickly come to realize that they are constrained in new ways, and many of they object.

          Central planning goes against the natural human desire to make your own way in life. To have a dream and try to build a life around it. Even if it is just to own a little farm and sell your produce. Or to be a car mechanic starting a business out of your house. Or inventing some consumer widget and making your fortune on it. These dreams people naturally have run counter to the leveling imagined by Marxist utopians.

          That is a major point where the utopias fail. Sooner or later an authoritarian, strong man rule always takes over. They still call themselves Socialists or Communist but they no longer are. Once the leadership begins to see the workers as counter-revolutionaries the leaders will want to take the workers guns, among many other heinous assaults on the natural rights of human beings.

          The Socialist utopian dream must always devolve into a tyranny that is anti-Socialist, pro-Dictator. Either of a single tyrant or a tyrannical Party of tyrant-wannabes. The dictator may maintain the illusion of the original revolution, but it became a blood soaked lie early on.

        • That’s because of a little known fact, that socialist utopias really do work, and provide an astonishingly rich lifestyle, for those strongman leaders. Therefore, those (lets use a shorter term) dictators resist the rollback of that utopia with aggressive measures up to and including mass murder. Those who achieved dictatorship through other routes for several thousand years now, also subscribe to the same dedication to holding power, the end result will always be the same.

    • I’m not fond of extending the “interstate commerce” clause to person to person sales within a state, but the survey is meaningless in the argument over universal background checks. The argument isn’t over retailers. The argument is over individual face to face transactions, and those too are not retailers. It provides zero data relating to the actual debate.

      • I agree. How many guns used in crimes are stolen? How many are obtained via personal sales? It’s misleading to call it a “black market” when there is little to no regulation on someone selling a gun privately. If they are not required to do any background checks (and don’t even have any means to do them) or keep any records, what check is there on selling a gun to some wanted nazi or member of ISIS, let alone and average felon?

        • According to the government 232,000 guns are stolen in burglaries with another 60,000 stolen in other thefts. Other studies say 200,000 to 400,000 per year.

          It’s pretty safe to say that there’s a thriving market in stolen firearms which, no matter what regs might exist, is a black market.

    • “Half of them obtained their firearm from the “underground” market.”

      Most of these guns, go DIRECTLY from FFL to the “market”, or by just one intermediate straw purchase, with the knowledge of the FFL. The ATF use to admit to this, but no longer publish that information as is kind of makes them look bad. If they try and lock down FFLs more, the pro-gun community is up in arms.

      “Just six percent said they stole it.”

      “The survey reported that “most of the remainder had obtained it from a family member or a friend, or as a gift.”
      So about 30% “informal” gun running. Just shows how hard it is to bust straw purchasers.

      “Seven percent had purchased it under their own name from a licensed firearm dealer” Not suprising. Chicago gangs usaly like to have a few members with clean records. Helps with the gun running.

      So

  5. The filthy, Anti-American, Constitution hating, gun-grabbing, domestic enemies aren’t gonna like this one bit. “Buuuuuuut gun show loophole”!!!!!

  6. Requiring universal background checks will make no real difference. Criminals will simply get their legal partner/cousin/offspring/etc to purchase a firearm for them. Or buy one on the black market, those folks will NEVER do a background check. Smart legals selling illegally will simply mill off the SN to cover themselves..

    One law that would reduce the number of stolen guns would be to completely legalize the booby trapping of gun storage cabinets.

    • Bob Jones
      Rumor has it when G Gordon Liddy was asked if had any firearms, his response was no but Ms. Liddy has quite a collection.

      • Not rumor. He had a radio show and would say as much. If I recall correctly, he also said his wife kept some of her guns on his side of the bed.

    • I’m not for them, but “universal background checks” will make is a lot easier to prosecute the person who bought the gun for the “criminal”.

      • No it really won’t. Grind off the serial number and the authorities will not know it’s origins. “Oh but the criminals girlfriend Sue had this type of pistol and it’s missing!” Sue: “Oh it got stolen but I didn’t file a report./I did file a report but it was never found./Oh, it got lost in a boat accident./Oh it broke so I destroyed it.” In other words, at best you have circumstantial evidence and no actual proof.

  7. Funny how this was released right at the same time as the Dems are talking about universal background checks. I am afraid our only hope in stopping this would be to load it down with pro gun amendments to make the Dems kill it. Buckle up boys it is about to get bumpy.

  9. Well DUH😏In other “news” the govner Prickster in ILLinois has signed the Dealer Licensing bill to f##k gun dealers. And it won’t mean a damn thing to reduce “gun violence”. Just make the little guy go out of business…😡

    • He signed it, wait, it passed the house and Senate already? I missed that one, not living in Illinois and all… Where was the outcry this time? Looking at you Springfield!

      • The Dumbocrats have a “super majority” now. And a fat f##k commie POS in power. It IS on the Chiraq “news” but the idiot’s are celebrating it!

    • Is this just Chicago or the whole state?

      The last I heard they made a comprehensive bill for gun shops in Chicago that required video recorded transactions and other requirements, and then found out there were no gun shops in the Chicago city limits to apply the laws to.

  11. The “gun show loophole” narrative isn’t about crime, it’s about control. And registration. And confiscation.

  15. Oh duh, who would have guessed. As for myself being an X criminal, the part that’s missing is most, guessing 70℅ of those guns were stolen. Recently I was offered for purchase a mod 629 for $125, what a deal right,,,NOT. I do not like Gubment dictating what I do however gun safes are a good idea.

  17. There is a dark side to this…

    It *could* encourage even MORE draconian methods to control guns than are currently on the table. Some would say that even MORE drastic measures must be taken to keep guns out of the hands of those who should not have them – which is, in their minds: those pesky plebs!

    Forget measures that just affect the law-abiding… plebs are SUPPOSED to abide by the laws that are passed AND submit to whatever indignities or sacrifice of so-called “rights” our betters request.

    Of course, there IS a line. At some point, the gun control push is likely to cross that line and then we will see which patriots are truly committed to FREEDOM and who just talk. The founding fathers had a line, and they proved to be men of ACTION, not just talk… (although they definitely had a grasp on the concept of intelligent discourse!)

    NEWS FLASH: the facts support our arguments, but facts do not matter to the other side. (You can’t reason with traitors and liars!)

    What are YOU prepared to do to protect our inalienable rights?

  18. How much gun control does Mexico have? How many gun stores is there in Mexico? How many criminals get their guns from a gun store?

    I wonder where these Brazilian criminals got their guns and why they thought no one can stop them? Maybe when the communists had control of the government (for decades) it created a certain environment?

    https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=kokbi_1547596126

    Now that there isn’t such strict communists in power:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODk6KmeKLc0

  19. goober-ment d-suckers don’t care about how criminals get guns or commit crimes, their goal is to disarm you – the law-abiding “target”

  20. Anyone with any street smart at all knows this. Crooks rarely buy guns retail. I’m retired and own rental property. Late last summer, I had my Ruger SR-22 stolen from one my rental units while I was there doing various things and ran to the store. Nobody else was around. While I was gone, someone broke in and stole it.
    I reported it stolen. Much later, I though I’d turn it in on my NRA insurance. NRA wanted a copy of the police report. Fair enough, I can do that. When I got the police report, there was a form in the stuff I got called SPD/SCSO Recovered Stolen Property. I was like….HUH??
    My gun had been recovered during a drug search not even a week after being stolen. It’s still in the property room as the case has not been adjudicated.
    The moron who had my gun has these charges currently pending. Charge #(1) Unlawful possession of a firearm (previous Count) 1° Charge # (2) Unlawful possession of a firearm (previous Count) 1° Charge # 3 Unlawful possession of a firearm. Charge #4 Possession of a stolen firearm. Charge #5 Controlled Substance possession (Felony).
    Crooks don’t buy guns retail. They get them for pennies on the dollar after they are stolen from cars, burgled from homes etc.
    That’s why it’s such a major joke with the gun grabbers talking about the gun show loophole. There is no loophole and the majority of dirt bags don’t got to gun shows to buy guns

    • “I had my Ruger SR-22 stolen from one my rental units while I was there doing various things and ran to the store”

      So you basically left your firearm in a unsecured area. Unless you changed the locks, and even then, why?. WTF.

      Your right, no need for any guns laws with people like you, what the point?

      😉

  21. In other words this study proves that human beings are resourceful and creative — and will find alternate distribution channels for stuff that they want when their preferred distribution channel closes.

  22. Gun control is about disarming the law abiding so the left can feel they did something about crime. It also empowers their constituents against their victims since the strong prey on the weak.

  23. Talking with owners and employees in gun shops it is rare for a NICS refusal on a prohibited person to result in a police response. Mostly the refused gun buyer walks away to try elsewhere or via a different means.

    This is a huge weakness in the thinking of people who want background checks on every gun sale no matter the circumstance, including transfers within a family. Enforcement of existing law is a pathetic joke. Doing more of the same isn’t going to do a damn thing about criminals getting guns.

    • Such laws are idiotic on their face, I’ve always felt that anyone suggesting a law (not just about firearms) should be required to present several actual, real examples of how that law would work and how it would prevent a crime. Pointing out the Sandy Hook shooter and claiming he wouldn’t have been able to use his mother’s guns after he murdered her in her sleep sort of gives you the idea. NONE of these laws would, or could, make a damn bit of difference, and many (UBC is a good example) are completely unenforceable, meaningless in the extreme.

      • They should provide an actual example of how it would notably benefit to have the law, not just an anecdote.

        Oh wait, that is called strict scrutiny. Something that should be applied to all laws affecting human rights but tends to get ignored for money or feelz.

  24. I think the granddaddy of the gun show purchase complaint is the young lady who bought weapons for the Columbine shooters. So far as I know, she was never prosecuted.

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