DOJ and ATF will take another look at banning bump fire stocks.

As dailycaller.com is reporting, the DOJ and ATF are taking a fresh look at whether to ban bump fire stocks in the aftermath of the Las Vegas concert massacre. “As part of the ATF’s review into bump stocks, it plans to publish a notice that will eventually appear in the Federal Register seeking public comment. The legal analysis will revolve around the definition of the term ‘machinegun’ and whether bump stocks fall in that definition.” That will probably depend on what the meaning of ‘is’ is.

“Possessing firearm parts that are used exclusively in converting a weapon into a machine gun is illegal, except for certain limited circumstances,” U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) said in a joint statement. “Today we begin the process of determining whether or not bump stocks are covered by this prohibition.”

Gee, we thought that determination had already been made by the ATF. Read the entire DOJ statement here.

Manufacturers and inventors may voluntarily submit devices to ATF for a “classification,” that is, a determination as to whether the device is considered a firearm or machinegun under federal law.  If a device is not classified as a firearm or machinegun, it is deemed to be a part or accessory that is not subject to regulation by ATF.

Sessions’ statement went on to say . . .

ATF has taken the initial step in this regulatory process by drafting an Advanced Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (ANPRM) and submitting it to the Office of Management and Budget. The ANPRM will provide the public and industry the opportunity to submit formal comments to ATF about bump stocks to inform ATF’s decision regarding further steps in the rulemaking process. The federal rulemaking process follows procedures required by the Administrative Procedure Act (APA). ATF and the Department will proceed in accordance with this process as quickly as possible.

Is this an actual effort to ban a piece of plastic that does the same thing you can do with an Office Depot rubber band? Is it just a delaying tactic or fig leaf designed to allow movement on HB 38, the national reciprocity bill that’s expected to get a vote of the full House as early as this week? Are they using this to draw gun right supporters’ fire as cover for the FixNICS sham?

We report, you deride.

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45 COMMENTS

  1. This is just a related comment that might be useful to someone here:

    I strongly recommend not trying to sell your bump stock on Gunbroker.com. They first will require “extended identity verification,” requesting information like your driver’s license data, and then they will charge you for their “check.” Later, when you attempt to list your bump stock, they may tell you that only established sellers are allowed to sell bump stocks. That’s what the bastards did to me. I would steer clear of them. There is a reason why they have such a terrible record in the BBB.

    Regards

    • Sold mine for $660 with 0 issues… had it listed on Armslist/FB prior for $160 trying to get rid of it lol (SSAR MOD)

  2. Here we go again.

    I swear not only does the GOP want to give the democrats the house and senate until they secure the collapse of the United States, but trump is bound and determined to be a one term president.

    Because he will sign HR 4477 and Veto HR 38 just like jarvanka will tell him to do, and now his DOJ is pulling this crap.

    And I’ve been calling and sending emails like crazy. But it’s never done any good.

    • Democrats, Republicans, good cop bad cop. I’ve quit voting on presidential elections, it’s just a pack of lies Where’s the affordable healthcare act, where’s the wall off the Mexicans, Nixon gas shortage, Bushes 5 dollar a gallon gas.O bama first black president? NOT. Now this medical marijuana no gun shit, I’m afraid them foid cards and concealed carry permits, 4473’s are going to bite us in the ass pretty quick. N here I go…. Perhaps the investigators should look more towards China then Russia on this Trump election shit, who’s top dog in the global market, China. How the hell can U.S. fight communist when we support China with our money, only the rich can buy Made in U.S.A. ? And even then it’s hard to find a U.S. product anymore. It pisses me off, Korea, Vietnam, What’d we get out of that? Made in China

  3. And the ATF will inevitably find that their previous ruling still stands, and the left will have an uproar and demand legislation to ban them, and by then there wont be the support to make it happen. This is exactly what the NRA was looking for; it’s all just political theater.

    • Nah, the NRA is showing itself for what it really is and probably always has been. A pro gun control organization.

      • I don’t think I would go so far as to call the NRA a “pro gun control” organization.

        Having said that, I fully recognize that it is in the NRA’s interest (as in financial interest) if a base level of unconstitutional firearm laws remain in play.

        My personal take on the majority of NRA leadership, members, and sympathizers:
        — They are okay with NICS checks as they stand
        — They are okay with a closed machine gun registry
        — They are okay with NFA treatment of machine guns
        — They support military style semi-auto rifle ownership
        — They want national concealed carry reciprocity
        — They are divided on removing suppressors from the National Firearms Act

        In other words the current state of laws and enforcement in our nation is just about where the NRA wants them, with the exception that the NRA wants national concealed carry reciprocity which does not currently exist.

      • Bashing the NRA for being anti-gun is like a whiny teenager telling his parents that they hate him because they bought him the wrong color car for his birthday.

        • Well it’s probably more like they gave the kid a single roller skate and said “happy sweet 16!”

          The nra and gop keep giving us the least amount of freedom that they can afford. We need to drain the f#&!ng swamp!

        • Bad analogy. An American’s liberty is not something gifted to him by some group acting as if in loco parentis over a minor. Said liberty is inherent in the citizen.

        • Name one national gun control law passed within the last 50 years that didn’t have the support of the NRA.

        • Re: bashing the NRA. Those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it. The NRA is a very old organization and, as such, has accumulated its share of warts and scars. Nonetheless, it is the one organization that has stood between 2nd amendment rights and gun confiscation. And in this—literally for decades longer than most of us here have been alive—it has been remarkably successful even against enormous political pressure.

          I don’t like all of its policies. A few years ago I was seriously pissed that the NRA was funding liberal politicians’ campaign. But then I realized that those same “liberal politicians” were consistently supporting NRA positions. Say what you will about the NRA, but it is a stunningly successful political organization. A majority of Americans support gun-rights because of what the NRA has done.

  4. If Bump-Stocks are banned , what ” parts ” will be next ?
    We don’t like THAT trigger , or that muzzle brake ,, and of course MAGAZINES are also a ‘ part ‘ . Scopes are clearly bad …. GONE ! , Nobody Needs a Bi-pod … GONE ! , 80 % Kits GONE ! …..
    Now , if assembling a gun at home is outlawed , WHY would we ( nanny statists ) want to ‘ allow ‘ you to make ammunition at home ?

    WE MUST BAN RELOADING EQUIPMENT ! ……… for the chillens .

    What happened to the Hearing Protection Act ?
    As asked in todays hearing , WHY are HR – 38 and HR – 4477 being COMBINED ?
    This whole mess is shady , Can you smell the — ” BAIT and SWITCH ” yet ?

    https://gunowners.org/news12317.htm

      • No…. bye bye semi autos. When you have “experts” saying there is little functional difference between semi and full, and can bridge the gap in public perception with a piece of plastic (i.e. bump stock), then semi-auto rifles become the target.

        • I’m not in favor of banning bump stocks, but the hysteria is certainly rising about just how far ATF will go in banning accessories. A couple of pieces of sheet metal are already NFA regulated items (lightning link) and another little device with a cam is yet another NFA accessory (DIAS). There’s ample precedent for the ATF to change their mind – the logical stretch (that is difficult to rationalize) is that DIAS and links change the behavior of the trigger itself; a bump stock leaves the trigger alone, and moves the “auto” operation to an external part.

          Given the flip-flopping of ATF rulings on pistol braces could give a clue about how a ruling might go. If they chose to do so, they could claim that a bump stock fundamentally changes the way that a normal trigger is used, taking it outside the standard way it is operated. Just as they, at one time, ruled that placing a pistol brace on your shoulder essentially “redesigns” it. We all pretty much agree that ruling is incorrect, and they subsequently rescinded it – but if I was ATF under pressure to ban bump stocks, I’d probably give that strategy a try.

          There are a limited number of ways in which ATF can rule on parts and accessories. I doubt very much that competition triggers or belt loops are at risk as a general rule. However, on an individual basis, keep in mind that ATF can get very crafty in demonstrating that an individual has violated the law: rubber bands to make a gun go cyclic, prosecuting folks who had inadvertent doubling due to faulty or worn sears, or taking a pipe wrench to a muzzle device to show it wasn’t permanently attached. Rulings are one thing, prosecutions for violations are another.

  5. “The legal analysis will revolve around the definition of the term ‘machinegun’ and whether bump stocks fall in that definition.”

    It doesn’t. It quite literally can’t and there is no way to “stretch” the language of the NFA to make it cover this. The ruling will be the same as before.

    This is political grandstanding. Nothing more.

    • I don’t know. The simple act of shouldering a brace as you would a stock was considered to “redesign” a handgun into a SBR.

      • Yep – my analysis (just above this) would use the same strategy. A bump stock “redesigns” the standard trigger in a way that it wasn’t designed. Instead of pulling the trigger with a movement of the finger, the gun recoils into a stationary finger. If you can figure out how to do this on your own – bump firing – it’s hard to do much about that. But a device that does it for you could easily be interpreted as redesigning the trigger, just as Lawyer in TX notes.

  6. I’m curious, does anyone know how many crimes (other than the LV massacre) have been committed with bump-stock equipped firearms?

    No question, that one crime was horrific with a huge death toll. So was the Nice, France truck attack which killed 25 more people than the LV killer. The truck bomb attacks recently have each taken 400% to 500% more lives than the LV shooter, yet it seems we’re not cracking down on trucks…

    Not minimizing the tragedy in Vegas at all. I am honestly curious if there is any record of another crime being committed involving a bump stock.

    • Show me where the LVMPD has said a bump stock was in fact used. Or any firearm for that fact. They have released ZERO information so far. Stop parroting the anti-2A narrative.

  7. “We report, you deride.”

    And in the TTAG comment section, the Chimps retort, and then deride…

    *snicker* 😉

  8. A HIGHLY VALUE FRIEND WHO WAS A MARINE VETERAN OF WW!! AND THE KOREAN WAR, WHEN ASKED WHAT HE WANTED TO HAVE READILY AT HAND ‘WHEN “THE BALOON WENT UP”,
    I.E. WHEN IN THE PARLANCE OF OUR PRESENT DAY; THE “SHTF”, HIS SIMPLE ANSWER WAS “HIS .357 S&W M19 COMBAT MAGNUM AND A BOX OF CARTRIDGES” . . . AS IN SUCCESSFULLY SURVIVING A GUN FIGHT, HE THE VICTOR WOULD NOT ONLY HAVE POSSESSION OF THE VANQUISHED ADVERSARY’S FIREARMS BUT AS WELL AS HIS SUPPLY OF AMMUNITION, AND ALL OTHER OF HIS VANQUISHED ADVERSARY’S ARMAMENT AND EQUIPMENT; AND IN ADDITION AS WELL POSSIBLY ANY VEHICLE THAT HIS LATE ADVERSARY HAD SO ANY CAPABLE AND SUCCESSFUL WARRIOR DID NOT NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE TOO CONCERNED ABOUT INITIALLY HAVING A LARGE EQUIPMENT INVENTORY TO MEET HIS OR HER IMMEDIATE NEEDS!

    SO, THE BOTTOM LINE IS MAINTAINING A HIGH DEGREE OF ABILITY WITH YOUR PRIMARY SIDEARM AND/OR RIFLE AND SHOTGUN AS WELL AS YOUR ACQUIRED KNOWLEDGE AND SKILLS, BEING AWARE OF THE FACT THAT THE ADVERSARIES WILL PROBABLY BE WELL EQUIPPED WITH MACHINE GUNS’ AND OTHER ‘EXOTIC’ WAR LIKE ‘GOODIES’ AND THOSE ITEMS ARE THERE FOR THE TAKING IN A SUCCESSFUL ENCOUNTER; ESPECIALLY IF THE ADVERSARIES HAPPEN TO BE ROGUE GOVERNMENT STORM TROOPERS, I.E. POLICE, MILITARY, ETC.

  9. A HIGHLY VALUE FRIEND WHO WAS A MARINE VETERAN OF WW!! AND THE KOREAN WAR WHEN ASKED WHAT HE WANTED READILY AT HAND ‘WHEN THE BALOON WENT UP,
    I.E. WHEN IN THE PARLANCE OF OUR PRESENT DAY; THE SHTF,
    HIS SIMPLE ANSWER WAS HIS .357 S&W M19 COMBAT MAGNUM AND A BOX OF CARTRIDGES AS WHEN ONE SURVIVES A GUN FIGHT, HE THE VICTOR WOULD NOT ONLY HAVE ACQUIRED POSSESSION THE VANQUISHED ADVERSARY’S FIREARMS AS WELL AS HIS SUPPLY OF AMMUNITION AND
    ALL OTHER OF ARMAMENT AND EQUIPMENT . . . AS WELL A POSSIBLY ANY VEHICLE THAT HE HAD SO ANY CAPABLE SUCCESSFUL WARRIOR DID NOT NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE TOO CONCERNED ABOUT A LARGE INVENTORY TO MEET HIS OR HER NEEDS!
    SKILL WITH HIS SIDEARM AND/OR RIFLE & SHOTGUN AS WELL AS BASIC KNOWLEDGE OF FIELDCRAFT IS THE PRIMARY CONCERN!.!

  10. Some where on YOU TUBE there is a video of a person using a $.05 rubber band to produce the same rapid rife effect on an AR15.
    Will they outlaw rubber bands next?????

  11. They really want to ban a piece of plastic that any 3d printer worth its weight can reproduce, not to mention the millions that are already out there? Yeah, good luck with that.

  12. I also can bumpfire just using my finger, shooting from the hip
    I can walk the impacts on target or sweep back and forth at the base of the berm
    What the bump stock does for me is allow aimed bursts using my eotech
    A solid shoulder and cheek rest and aimed 3 to 5 round bursts is far more accurate
    It still runs dry WAY too fast!

  13. We know exactly fuck-all about the Vegas shooting two months in and counting, but our betters know a bump stock ban will fix it. At this point the official behavior has me convinced every single one of Paddock’s stocks was in the fixed position during the shooting, and this is a desperate attempt to cash in before word gets out the FBI/ATF supplied him the damn things in the first place.

  14. Here you go. Rubber bands are free. Wrap one around the trigger and magwell. Adjust tension. Now you bumpfire. See! I just saved you $130 and the no one is going to make rubber bands illegal.

  17. From an engineering standpoint, the government does not have the “authority” to ban “bump stocks”, as this “device” does not change the operation of the firearm at all. One round is expended with each pull of the trigger, no different from normal operation, and is still considered semi-automatic functioning…

  18. “The legal analysis will revolve around the definition of the term ‘machinegun’ and whether bump stocks fall in that definition.”

    This is popcorn-worthy. Being shallow, I’ll avoid substantive issues like whether any kind of machine gun ban is legal or makes sense & just enjoy the show.

    While I despise and distrust the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, Really Big Fires, Gun-Running, Stonewalling and Getting Border Patrol Guys Killed in general, seeing them backed into cranking on their own, personal petard-hoist is priceless.

    Net, the definition of a machine gun comes down to, firing a round automatically fires the next round without the operator having to do anything further. What is a bump-fire stock but an add-on gizmo to modify a semi-auto (self-loading) gun to do exactly that.

    So, with the authority in place already to ban the Eeeevil killing machine add-ons, the BATFRBFGRS&GBPBK etc. blew their initial ruling. There’s no “next move” that doesn’t just get worse for them.

    They need more authority, when they can’t use what they’ve got?

    Auto-firing isn’t really covered by the law, you say? Really. So machine guns are effectively banned how?

    Oh, it is? OK, so because they corked up, how many of the LV victims died because they permitted these eee-ville killing machines (that they already had the authority to ban, and didn’t.)

    LV-BG would have killed bunches of people even without the bump-fire / high rate of fire? So, why are machine guns illegal, again? (BTW, if it isn’t the gizmos, maybe pay attention to the crazies & etc. who seem to find a way to kill people with whatever they can get their hands on?)

    (And did the NRA commit an act of effective advocacy on this one with their initial position and press? That’s competent, bordering on brilliant. Who are these people, and what did they do with the NRA?)

    /more popcorn

    • “So machine guns are effectively banned how?” By a definition in the statute which revolves around the mechanics of a trigger.

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