Don’t Write off Any State or Region

1. I concur. It wouldn’t hurt to bus in during elections and demonstrations in these states on a real grass roots level (as opposed to the anti’s astroturf actions). As I see it now, the only way I’ll be going to any of these states will be as a part of an organized effort to change the laws.

   • Nope! Three reasons: 1. When 2nd Amendment amendment supporters move to safe states it strengthens our hold on the good states. It moves population which cuts the number of Representatives the bad states have in Congress and in the Electoral College. 3. It makes the bad states more attractive to criminals and the good states less attractive.

     • Someone gets the idea. Thanks. the founders went to place where they had chance of winning and didn’t stay where they never would have. Then they dug in and fought and prevailed.

     • agreed. I’ve heard this tired argument many times before. First of all, most people South of the Mason-Dixon line seem to forget that there are other states in New England beyond Connecticut and Massachusetts. As Paulson pointed out, Vermont has been Constitutional Carry for a long time, while NH does have a shall issue permit system for concealed carry, it permits open carry with no restrictions. Maine is headed in Vermont’s direction.

       The difference is that these three states also happen to be populated by people who value self reliance – an original Yankee value, and limited government interference as opposed to the Nanny Staters in MA and CT.

       Places like NJ, NY, and CA are a whole different kettle of fish. They are populated by radbidly anti-gun people and those people in those states are becomming more numerous and more rabid. No amount of work on our part is likely to change the course of their slide into total civillian disarmament and time and resources wasted on those states could be better spent on ones where increasing gun rights has a chance.

       As for those who argue that “so goes California, so goes the nation” I’d argue that in the same period that states like CA, NY, and NJ tightened restrictions, restrictions were lifted in many other places around the country. If it’s a trend you are looking for, then look harder.

       We need to give rabid anti-gunners a haven where they can enjoy their gun free paradise and let the rest of us live in peace somewhere else.

       If you happen to reside in a state with restrictions, that sucks. For many people, it’s simply not feasible to move. By all means, keep up the fight – you may be able to slow the erosion of your rights by doing so and that in itself has merit. But, please don’t delude yourselves into thinking that there is any real chance for real gun rights in these lost cause states.

       • You clearly know nothing about California. We have some of the best pro-gun lawyers and gun advocacy groups (see CRPA and Calguns Foundation) in the Country. We also have innovative people like Darin Prince who invented the bullet button, and gun stores that have stood up to the ATF. Again and again Californians have defended gun rights in court, and many times, won. The 9th Circuit case of Peruta vs. San Diego County is still ongoing, but so far, concealed carry advocates are winning.

         The rest of you can run to other states and pretend this won’t happen to you, but we Californians will continue the fight.

       • You must no nothing about Upstate NY. We hate NYC which is the largest city in the country by far….Gun rights people in Upstate tend to be even more intense than those in the south because they know what infringement looks like, and feels like. 52/62 county sheriff’s in the entire state of NY oppose the SAFE Act and have refused to enforce the majority of its provisions, also the same number of counties passed legislation banning the State government from using their county seal of approval on any SAFE Act literature ever. You’d be shocked if you heard how many times a Sheriff’s Deputy or State Trooper said “Don’t register a thing and keep your stuff”. NY State has one of the highest if not the highest levels of NRA memberships not to mention membership in the NYSRA. I can’t tell you how many 30rd P-mags I’ve seen, how many unmodified AR15’s I’ve seen, etc. Theres a county southeast of me that allows open carry (NYS law doesn’t explicitly restrict it like some states) because the county Judge and county Sheriff were elected by the people for the people and of the one or two times they tried to bring in an Assistant State Attorney General to prosecute an open carry case jury nullification was used. If anything I would say NYS is the number 1 anti-gun state that has potential. We don’t have Hollyweird, SanFreakingShow, etc. to influence us. NYC is still a big problem but its more like too many voters down there are just dull in the head and vote for anything a libtard proposes and not so much actively trying to push more gun laws beyond normal, except for Bloomterd and every politcian from downstate which seams to flood our Government. The US Attorney for S.D.N.Y (Preet Bharara a democrat appointee mind you!) has been indicting NY Politicians left and right and there is a strong link between Cuomo and a lot of these scumbags that are bonafide federally indicted convicted felons on corruption charges. Also Preet Bharara’s judicial district doesn’t even cover the capital of NY but that has never stopped him since the US Attorney for N.D.N.Y hasn’t been picking up the slack. I don’t oppose those moving out of state for more freedom but I do oppose painting all of NYS as blue when it is not. We essentially elected a Republican to office but NYC votes came in and screwed us into getting Cuomo again.

     • The population will stay or move according to a host of reasons including guns. I suspect that gun owners will be people with a higher probability of being tied to the land or to a small business where they live. Anti-gunners are more mobile; they can pick-up stakes from a failing State and move to contaminate a prosperous State.

       It seems a very dangerous idea for us PotG to leave 10 States in a persistent Anti-state. These are populous States with lots of Congressmen and electoral votes. The gun-owners in these States will not be able to turn the tide by themselves. We need to help reconstruct them to full integration with the other 40 States.

       That will have to happen with Congressional action – such as National Reciprocity – and SCOTUS decisions. National Reciprocity will break a fissure in their Anti-gun laws. Just as soon as Virginians can carry in Maryland, the Won’t-Issue policy in that State will begin to crumble. Likewise for Pennsylvanians carrying in New Jersey. This will complement other pressures such as the desire for self-defense in Baltimore.

       A SCOTUS case on Right-to-Carry is inevitable; it’s a matter of getting enough money behind the right case somewhere and getting SCOTUS to take it.

     • And when Democrats implement California style gun control in your State, your State is full of nothing but people who ran away. Good luck learning to fight back.

       No thanks, I’ll stay in CA and continue the fight.

2. “Why? I can’t recall a war that was won by a Nguyen Van Thieu-like retreat to ‘safe’ territory and hoping for the best.”

   Really? You cannot think of one? Okay: the Founders of this nation fled Great Britain’s monarchy for the relative freedom of the colonies and when the colonies prospered and King George tightened down on them, then the colonists could fight fr m a position of strength.

   If they’d stayed in Great Britain, they would have NEVER achieved the freedom we have to day but would still be subjects as the subject of the British Crown still are there today. There would be no Declaration of Independence, no Bill of Rights, no Constitution, and no USA.

   Not every fight is winnable no matter the terrain: terrain matters a lot. Sometimes, you have to make the enemy come to you. Got it? Good.

   • Hey Dan – if everyone flees the gun unfriendly states they’ll eventually look like the UK does today. Let’s not make the founders fleeing mistake. Stand and fight. Got it? Good.

     • Mmm… nope. Does not compute. Gun owners moving to other states in our system does not allow the country to turn into the UK.

       • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incrementalism

     • I disagree. Instead it re-inforces free states with a population who will not be tread upon. Hence the progressive growth of rights in the non-California’s of the West and Central USA right now. those states need more of us to join them Incrementalism spread when forces are dissipated. “We just hang together or surely we will hang separately.”

     • And if they move to states neutral on the gun issues and turn them pro-gun, how would that damage American gun rights? More pro-gun states. A pro-gun vote helps gun rights in a swing state more than it does in New York City or Chicago.

   • The founders did not start a revolution in England and then retreat to safety in North America.

     During the war, the Continental Army stayed alive by retreating. A lot. The final campaign at Yorktown was set up by goading Cornwallis into pursuing Continental soldiers across the south to the Southern Neck of Virginia, where they were trapped and besieged into surrender. So yes, many battles of the revolution were won by withdrawals, but the war was won by offense at key times and places.

     Today, withdrawing from CA, NY, MD, etc. will not make the enemy come to us. All it does is cede to the enemy some of the most powerful voting blocks in the nation (especially California, the single most populous state, with fifty-odd electoral votes). Within these anti-gun bastions, we need efforts like what is going on in San Diego, bleeding off momentum from the anti-gun forces and possibly, one of these days, restoring some small glimmer of hope for the rights of the people.

     It won’t be easy, and it won’t be quick. But if we just lop off huge chunks of America and give them away, how can we ever have hope of any kind?

     I my case, I happily reside in Northern Virginia (or, as I like to call it, “Yankee-occupied territory”), where I take every chance I get to recruit my left-leaning neighbors into joining the people of the gun. There have been some successes here and there, and I keep hoping that if I and other like-minded folks keep chipping away, maybe we can prevent the Old Dominion from sliding into the pile of states that some people would have us abandon.

     • California is comprised of three large progressive elicits status metro voting books that run the state and that will never change for generations if ever.

       • It might after they run out of water and all the $10 million homes on the hillsides burn down.

     • I my case, I happily reside in Northern Virginia (or, as I like to call it, “Yankee-occupied territory”)…..

       It’s this attitude that has prevented me from moving to “Confederate Territory” ….and of course every time I open my mouth, I have to hear “You ain’t from around ‘hea”….so I stay “up north”, where people “Tawk” like me, and I am liked and appreciated. BTW…because I didn’t move to VA (like I was going to), I didn’t get to vote ‘R’, and now you have Mr. Terry McAuliffe as your Governor, who is WAY more antigun than Chris Christie. VA is turning BLUE…just a matter of time. Then where are you going to run to?

   • Do you think Washington won every engagement? Hardly. He was master of jabbing and running UNTIL he had help to train his militia to fight like British regulars. The myth of backwoodsmen cutting down entire columns like wheat is a myth of epic proportions. He used to win a battle here and there but his main talent was making them CHASE him South. Ever South until the southern militia were in a position to clobber them at Cowpens and later at Yorktown.

     Ray

     • Too many people do not know the story of Nathanael Greene. Without whom we might all be “talkin British” right now.

   • Maybe your third grade teacher told you that narrative, but it is hilariously naive.

     The leaders of the American Revolution never fled Great Britain. Hell some had never set foot in it. And that is essential to the story of our independence, as the legal charters combined with salutary neglect over a century long, led to a divergence of people and political ideology.

     Heck many of the people who actually fled Britain for the US did so, not fleeing monarchy, but fleeing the Lord Protector, or later on fearing “papist rule” under James II, or, and here is the heritage of several founders with Scottish blood, they were Jacobites, supporters of James and his line, fleeing after “Bonnie Prince Charlie” was defeated. Scots by and large supported the Stuart monarchy. It was the rule of parliament they were fleeing, not the monarchy.

     Heck the regional political divisions in Britain can still be mapped on to the US as part of that heritage!

     In anycase, your view of history must be comical. I suppose Washington was on the Mayflower?

3. I appreciate this post. Thanks Johannes.

4. I totally agree!
   as a life long resident of The Peoples Republic of Chicago it was unheard of 5yrs ago that I could carry a loaded concealed handgun walking down Michigan Ave.

   • Yes! I live in Cook county-lived in the city for several years. I got mighty PO’d listening to Indiana jerks saying “just move here”…enough to decide to never buy a gun at Deb’s Gun Shop(in Hammond). I’ll use your range…never heard this from my favorite gun shop-Blythes in Griffith. Alot of Illinois folks work at the local Cabelas and they mostly sympathize. Fight the good fight-you’ve got MY support…

5. Vermont is a strange state, yet we’re finally a Governor’s signature away from legalizing suppressors/silencers thanks to some legislative heroics on the session’s last day. Full support to Maine and to all those in the other states within this great nation that wish to correct the misguided regulations that threaten the foundation laid out by the Founding Fathers.

   To make these kinds of changes we need to remember the value of tempered discourse and perseverance.

6. The hard part of CA is being overwhelmed with nonsense. Why legislators decide to remove your ability to lawfully protect oneself and others is beyond my ability to comprehend. The amount of work to move the needle or just stay on the treadmill wears one down.

   • It varies by county (a lot!), but the Orange County sheriff is issuing CCW permits. Plus, Orange County is flippin’ awesome.

     But the CA gun laws, high taxes, and liberal nonsense is definitely tiring.

     However, I just got done shooting with Dr Vino at Burro Canyon. Since we had a private lane, we could move and shoot, holster draw, rapid fire, and blow up ground targets. Good times. That’s not too bad for one of the worst states in the union for gun rights.

   • Yep. In California there is a such thing as “improper self defense”. But don’t worry, because sexually confused children can legally use whatever bathroom they “identify” with on that day. Hooray for Newspeak.

7. The legislative paths in Ca and NY and NJ are closed without huge demographic and cultural shifts.

   • ^^This^^

     The odds of that shift are too long to measure.

     • I often stare at the night sky and dream that the massive flood of illegal immigrants pouring across the border, fleeing drug wars and a corrupt government will someday vote knowing and understanding the utter importance of owning a gun……*then I snap back to reality*

       • The Latino voting block in California is solidly Democrat and therefore anti-gun.

   • Demographics count for little here. Culture / consensus is everything and that can change really quickly given the correct stimulus.

   • There are paths other than legislative.

     Chicago and D.C. residents can now lawfully carry guns where only a few years ago they were forbidden to even own them, thanks to the Federal Courts who bitch-slapped the various tyrants into recognizing our Constitution.

     The judicial path requires our support, too.

8. Maine and Vermont are lily white rural communes. The relevant principle to extract isn’t that even in New England, gun rights prevail. Rather, it’s the same old story of a homogeneous clique approving bennies for themselves which are rights they’d readily deny others, if there happened to be any “others” in the vicinity.

   The proof? Look how their Congressional delegations vote and their ratings from various groups on either side of the firearms freedom battle. These people vote to snatch your rights all across the continent. Pro-gun? Yeah, and Sen. DiFi carries, too. So what?

9. No ‘pity’ just condescension. They voted for, and daily-support the mess they’re in. The ONLY REASON WE HAVE TO PUT UP WITH THE CR_P IS BECAUSE THEY PUT UP WITH IT.

   F U R T H E R > > >

   “that which you ignore, that which you tolerate, and that which you promote, define you equal to your own action or inaction” [TERMS, J.M. Thmas R., 2012 pg. 44]

   Breed that shizzay out, or mow/burn/and salt the ground. You are being warred upon and like a battered spouse you’re telling us that your state houses and legislators ‘don’t mean nuthin’ by it.’

   “To briefly expound on the notion of compounded threat and damage to security in surrounding societies when societal agreement is not upheld by the party aggressed, one needs to consider translated threat, and translated effect. As a visual reference consider figure 8.
   Figure 8
   If, by example, you are a member within the above circle [or; a member of the set of societal pairs limited in some fashion to a particular grouping, or defined within a given area, figuratively referred to by that circle], and the figure in the center of the circle is an individual member of a paired society not upholding societal agreement, there is expansion of threat of that offending member without dissipation.
   For, the individual posing the threat, who is allowed to exist within the circle, without counter threat or eradication from the surrounding societal pairs, does so either by implied invitation from the circle, (either as acceptance or tolerance), or through the circle’s implied weakness-against or ignorance-of the threat (that which you ignore, that which you tolerate, and that which you promote, define you equal to your own action or inaction).
   Therefore, with or without warning, other parties (outside the circle) may be forced to act on that offending individual, and as the offending individual is surrounded by the circle, eradication of the threat may come at the cost of the partial or potentially the total destruction of the surrounding circle.
   What might be a more discernable example, and equally true in counterpart is to view the picture in the inverse.
   Now you, figuratively, are the individual in the circle. You are not the threat but you have allowed yourself or inadvertently found yourself surrounded by a grouping of societal pairs that are adverse to the societal norms that are considered necessary by an individual, societal pairing, or groups of societies outside the circle.
   If the circle needs to be eradicated for the threat it poses, you will be eradicated with it if you cannot otherwise extract yourself from it, and regardless of your own opinion of the threat contained by the circle. AGAIN, that which you ignore, that which you tolerate, and that which you promote, define you equal to your own action or inaction [15].” [TERMS, J.M. Thomas, R., 2012 pgs. 44-45]

   • P.S. –
     “That’s why the latest news that Maine is close to enacting full constitutional carry is so important.” Maine has always been Constitutional Carry, hell, against bears it’s been Marshall Carry. That they are finally “papering-it-up” is just further evidence of their knowledge of possible infringement.

     I’ve said before, “I would swim down to the sinking Titanic, if I thought I could pry your hands off of the rail.” To which I add, to all you blue-stater liberal liabilities out there. In the next Civil War, or during our current War with China, DON’T YOU DARE LET ME CATCH MYSELF DEFENDING YOU HARDER THAN YOU DEFEND YOURSELF.

     And, don’t for a second make me worry that you are Tory, Vichy, Judas Goat beotches.

     • As they say, America is at an awkward stage: it’s much too late to work within the system to save it, but it’s still too early to start lining them up against a wall.

       • Well, the sad part is we’re actually trying to keep everyone off the wall. The enemies of America would put all of us on the wall, gun-grabbers want them to have a fighting chance.

   • W O R S E:

     We argue guns here all day long (btw thank you very much TTAG for the venue), BUT GUNS AIN’T THE ONLY PROBLEM.

     Like it says in the bible “don’t point out the splinter in your neighbor’s eye. . .” Help them with the 2″ x 12″ x 28′ plank of treated marine lumber stuffed in their a_ _ .

     They’s broke too many ways to list here. They don’t even know how we got to this point, nor what sustains our “Societal Agreement” day-to-day, and worse, they go day to day like the similar liberal crap hasn’t been tried (and failed) hundreds of different ways throughout human history, but they feel like they can do crazy better without bringing the whole thing down.

10. I disagree. This isn’t a “War” this is a system of government – a government of Federated States with the citizen’s right to travel freely amongst those States specifically protected in its Constitution, FOR PRECISELY THIS REASON. In a democratic system of representation, you do not create “change at the local level” (or even State level for that matter) by spreading your like-minded support so thin that they cannot influence any elections.

    I’ll give you an example from current events. Take the recently held UK elections where in spite of the having the 3rd highest voting total, securing just over 12% of the entire vote, the UKIP secured exactly one seat in Parliament….ONE! Why? because their almost 4 million votes where equally spread among the voting districts – they secured a majority only a single district. And consequently they will have zero influence in law making. No UKIP supporters will be able to protect themselves from having their principles violated, let alone having them enshrined in any laws, at any level, local or otherwise.

    The correct solution…the designed and Constitutionally protected solution, is to pick up house and vote with your feet, and to gather in sufficient numbers into like-minded communities that CAN live as they collectively choose. Otherwise your choice is to be a vocal minority waiting for one of two things to happen – either the winds of public opinion shift over life-times, or you watch your rights get whittled and stripped to meaninglessness.

    • Very well said, BDub.

      Save up enough money to be unemployed while looking for a job, sell or pack your s**t, round up your loved ones, and hit the road. If your rights mean enough to you, then do whatever it takes to keep them.

11. Imagine if Dick Heller (et al) and Otis McDonald (et al) just up’n moved out of their respective cities instead of standing and fighting.

    It’s not necessarily wrong to move to where the grass is greener, but I have tremendous respect for those who stay and fight.

12. People move from CA and MD to TX and CA, and bring their politics with them. You cannot run, it is not sound advice. I personally always find it amusing that gun rights advocates who otherwise preach self defense tell people to move aka run. And even if people wanted to run, there are these things called jobs, family, and it is super expensive to move.

    People need to stand and fight wherever that they happen to live. Containment is not a viable long term strategy. Slowly, the tide is turning – MD even passed a few mild pro-gun bills this year. D.C. may be shall issue very soon!

    signed,
    Behind Enemy Lines (MD).

    • Not true. I’m refreshingly right wing regardless of my location.

      • That’s not jumping to the end-state (or at least a later-state) of the argument. Say that there actually was, or needed to be, another U.S. Civil War.

        That which would be needed to properly prosecute it, is being pre-empted by the people causing such a need. The nameless/faceless few (or many? you tell me) that don’t fall into that category are now then sitting mostly quietly-by?

        What would you say they are waiting for? Is it for someone to come along and do their dirty-work (a/k/a UN style “help us – help us by any means possible and hurry because we need to get on with our plans to have you fund your Hague trials and the embossed gold-leaf Jury invitations have to be sent out to the printers and you know how hard it is to write in fluent Arabic . . “).

        Harsh, extreme, inflamatory arguments sure, but should someone ever need to act in such a fashion, what would be the thing that spurs them to action? Is it something that might kill them first? Do they think it’s never happened before (can you not see some of this very thing if you turn on the tv news tonight?). Shouldn’t the concerted push-back start with them. Can it not be a fight that the rest of us join, instead of the fight that sacrifices everything I care about to save you from the sh_t you were oblivious to, or didn’t care to waste your time on?

    • As a former Maryland resident I had plenty of reasons to move besides just guns. I don’t know what part of Maryland you live in but I lived in the epicenter of why the entire state is screwed up the way it is, Montgomery County.

      A county with the most money, population, and influence over the state and a culture that might as well be Socialist European. Living there was awful even moreso when my vote never mattered. Yes, I did my part to get people interested in gun rights and shooting. I always offered to take people on my dime. While a few converted the vast majority did not. They saw shooting as one of those activities you do once in a blue moon like skydiving, strip club, whatever activity you only do on a special occasion. Once done they would go right back to their bubble like nothing happened. Of course living in a urban/suburban environment with how built-up/NIMBY the county is it is hard to blame them for their ignorance and lackluster for gun rights when not only were they brought up on how bad guns are but never having a place to shoot or knowing someone who does. Shooting in Maryland is expensive and time-consuming just trying to find a place to shoot unless you live in the fringe areas of Western/Eastern Maryland with your own land.

      However, even if Maryland adopted Arizona gun laws overnight I would still move. The price of living is outrageously high, taxes and fees up the wazoo and don’t get me started on the rain tax which is just another property tax levied on top of your original property tax that the politicans machinated to the useful idiots about how it was for the environment, one of the worst business environments in the country, crowded, people are selfish dicks, NIMBY blowhards, bans on most recreational activity, a culture of entitlement, the way they coddle criminals and general incompetence, I could go on.

      Now I live in a place with no income tax, less crowded, people are friendlier, I have a place I can shoot for free anytime of the day I want in any possible way instead of highly-regulated square ranges, warmer weather, I don’t have to hide my pro-gun nature and outings have become like big social events, cheaper living, don’t have a stupid “handgun roster” and I can order normal capacity magazines to my house without having to wrestle with how I will get them legally in another state with a company who will even bother to do business with me to begin with, and my vote actually matters!

      I also do not know what guns you like but the guns I liked were screwed under FSA 2013 aka “assault weapons”. If they are not your thing then it is easier to stay behind to enjoy shooting since the politicans have not gone after the guns you like yet. I would like to own more but the state said no to me. I am young and would still like to enjoy freedom while I still have the strength to instead of hoping one day the gun laws get better when I am an old man fighting in a place where unfortunately the majority of people don’t want guns.

      So if you want to stay and fight more power to you but I only have one life to live and I would rather enjoy it around like-minded people than constantly pounding my head against the wall.

      P.S. the ballistic ID law was only removed because of budgetary reasons not for the love of the 2nd Amendment considering even some of the most ardent anti-gunners voted for its repeal no doubt as a deal from Hogan for them to have a field day with the money no longer being wasted on that program. Otherwise it would have been a cold day in hell for any gun law being repealed in Maryland.

13. New York is an interesting case. Outside of NYC, you will encounter people who are as pro-2A as anyone in the South, Florida, or Texas. On a recent visit up north, I was pleasantly surprised to see actual lawn signs demanding the repeal of the SAFE Act. Also, if you research, most CLEOs and county officials outside of NYC pledged not to enforce the SAFE Act. And most owners of evil black rifles chose not to register theirs. Compliance was really low, so low the State won’t release the number.

    In New York, the demographics are there, it’s just that NYC essentially steers the state.

    And VT, NH, and Maine have firearms laws more in line with what we’re used to in the South, FL, TX, AZ, and so forth. It just so happens the biggest voices in the Northeast are NY, MA, and CT.

    If Vermont allows for legal civilian suppressor ownership, it’s going to become a place I’d consider living. It’s a pretty cool state with great people and amazing scenery. It might lean lib, but people tend to mind their own business.

    • I’m cautiously optimistic on the suppressor bill.

      Don’t forget the fantastic craft beer industry. And yes, there is a general lib leaning, but it feels like a cyclical thing. The governor’s race this year was tied and the legislature had to decide. And now that he’s irritated both parties, I’m hoping we’ll bounce back to the right. I’m not happy about the Rep & the Senators, we have to break out of this re-election of incumbent trend. We just have to hope none of them make serious traction towards the White House….

      • . . . right, but you’ll let them be dog-catcher-school-board-community-organizers, ’cause that don’t lead to anything.

      • The ASA reports optimism as well. In a hunting-oriented state like VT, I’m surprised it wasn’t allowed to begin with.

14. The OP makes a good point. I have some counterpoints:

    1. To a large extent, people in those states have made the bed they are sleeping in. For instance, if even a substantial percentage of WA gun owners had turned out for the I-594 vote, it would not have passed. Heck, if all the gun owners who now say they are violating that law turned out, it would not have passed. Shame on them. No sympathy.

    2. Gun-unfriendly jurisdictions are places I wouldn’t live even if that were not true. I think the lack of respect for 2A is a symptom of a deeper disease. Let’s take DC. I don’t care if the federal court puts the whole city council and police chief in jail for contempt and sends in US Marshals to hand out shall-issue permits on the street corners, I still wouldn’t consider living there for twice what I’m making now. It’s a cesspit. Also, DC doesn’t get my sympathy because so few people there have applied for permits. The police department should be deluged with applicants, just to make the statement, but they have only had dribble.

    3. I’m getting too darn old for this horse pucky. Let’s say I did get all sympathetic for the people of NJ (Ugh!) I won’t live long enough to see NJ be a gun friendly state.

    4. I live in a gun friendly state and we still have our gun challenges. We still have to fight the good fight. There is always some challenge. So do I extend my money, my time and my sympathy to people living in lost cause states, or do I invite them to join me in where there are reasonable gun rights and fights worth fighting?

    • let me just say:

      “1. To a large extent, people in those states have made the bed they are sleeping in.”
      why do people from gun-friendly states assume every gun owner in an anti-gun state either voted for the people who are anti-gun or didn’t vote? or that either is even the most likely position for gun owners in that state?

      “4. I live in a gun friendly state and we still have our gun challenges. We still have to fight the good fight. There is always some challenge. So do I extend my money, my time and my sympathy to people living in lost cause states, or do I invite them to join me in where there are reasonable gun rights and fights worth fighting?”
      that’s fine… and when your state needs time and money and sympathy for your own challenge, should i save my time and money because it doesn’t benefit me to spend it on your behalf?

    • Don’t be so sure about WA. Seattle is a socialist workers paradise, or at least moving that way. I think that a lot of fuddish gun owners didn’t see through the devoid of facts TV ads for I594, but not sure that even if every gun owner voted the “right” way that it could have been voted down.

      All the counties around Puget Sound voted solidly yes, and the county that Spokane is in was in the “for” column. Unless something is done to limit the power of the high population density areas to run the state, WA could go “full CA” very quickly. Think of NY state being run by NYC, and Colorado being run by Denver and Boulder. Not a pleasant thought.

15. ]It’s nice to talk about wars, and fights, and battles, but it’s also silly. Just as silly as talking about the “Drug war” or the “War on poverty.” You can’t win this “war” like that.

    And even if you could, no military in the world would be foolish enough to pour resources into almost certain defeats when instead it could concentrate on the points across the line that could go either way with a little push.

    • Actually I guess there are armies that have done that but none I think we really want to model…

    • Ya, Hannibal, like your namesake, (Barca), you can’t win [in the end], might as well go bend over and take-it, and try to convince as many others that it was inevitable, because America wasn’t founded on the backs of the few crazies who implored their fellow man up until the time they said f it, or. . .

      • Hannibal fought an amazing fight but didn’t throw himself into impossible situations. He used tactics and strategies to do what he did. In the end he was outdone in his Italian campaign by Fabius who knew that he could not beat Hannibal’s army in a pitched battle so he refused to fight one.

        That war, like many, was not won by charging headlong into impossible situations. It was fought and won by men who understood how to not miss the forest for the trees.

        • No, Barca stuck with the same tactics, and considered (with those previously proven tactics) his geographical position to be a formidable enough obstacle. Scipio, however, coopted his tactics and used Barca’s reliance on his geographical positioning against him. Either way, Barca was taken on home turf by an enemy he knew for years was coming, and the population knew it too, instead of a to-the-last-man defense, they were invaded.

16. And New York is souring on Cuomo and company, those of them who aren’t in jail yet.

17. For years I have been saying this, not out of selfishness, but out of measurable traceable history. New York and California are testing grounds for the most extreme laws, they are also the states which are seen to be the most cosmopolitan, and thus any infringement that passes here or there can be deployed around the nation as it is “legitimized” by being unleashed first on the two main coastal populated states. Why the NRA or any other right organization is not pouring the lion’s share of its resources into fighting the laws of those two states is beyond me. People seem to forget that the social cancer spreads out from here, if they stop it at the source, they prevent a foot hold. To illustrate my point, with out sounding too elitist here… if say… Rhode Island was the leader in obscene infringements on the constitution it wouldn’t seem as significant versus some where like CA or NY where culture and media are generated and where thousands move to (or from) every year and take the values with them (as what happened to Colorado).

    • Why the NRA or any other right organization is not pouring the lion’s share of its resources into fighting the laws of those two states [California and New York] is beyond me.

      Because pouring resources into those two states appears to be a totally lost cost cause, a futile effort, going after windmills. A supermajority of the populous, politicians, bureaucrats, and judges support gun grabs in California and New York. How is pouring resources going to help?

      I empathize with anyone who lives under such oppression and wish the situation were different. Unfortunately, reality is what it is in California and New York. NRA candidates are not going to win a majority of offices in those states. NRA does not appoint/hire bureaucrats nor judges in those states.

    • Also, I do not agree that gun grabbing laws which fly in California and New York will sweep the rest of the nation. That sentiment reflects the core problem — too many people in California and New York are self-appointed elitists that think they know everything, know better than everyone else, and will dictate what everyone else does. That attitude is inconsistent with the rest of the nation. Of course we cannot tell that to any of the elitists in California or New York because they know better … never mind the facts that say otherwise.

      Cases in point:
      (1) Constitutional carry is spreading outside of California and New York.
      (2) Shall issue concealed carry is spreading outside of California and New York.
      (3) Open carry is spreading outside of California and New York.
      (4) Elimination of “gun free zones” is spreading outside of California and New York.
      (5) Firearms ownership is increasing outside of California and New York.
      (6) Popular opinion of firearms is improving outside of California and New York.

      Laws in California and New York will not change those facts. Why do you think ALL recent efforts to enact gun grabs at the federal level were soundly squashed? After all, aren’t California and New York supposed to dictate national policy? Or could it be that the GINORMOUS population of the United States (outside of California and New York) that support firearms ownership opposed such legislation and their legislators knew it?

      • + 1 NY is a pissant little state and Manhattan is just a 12 mi. stretch of that. The only thing that separates it from the 3rd-world wards of New Orleans post-Katrina is the indigenous general pop’s ability to vacate when things go south (although it was pretty dicey up to ~ 72 hrs. post 9/11).

        I say, let ’em swim for it, Miami 2017 style.

        CA, is a huge state, it’s so big it will take at least 11 years to free it from Mexico.

        • It may well be a state with a mere 19 million, making it half the population of CA, but I’ll have you know that NY played a critical role in the creation of the 2nd amendment as it is known by free-staters today.

          http://www.guncite.com/journals/vandhist.html

          Also, NYS north of Westchester has more in common with PA and VT than NYC, politically.

        • Warp – It doesn’t matter if it held 20 million people or 2x the population of CA, it wouldn’t represent another square inch of America. If you didn’t live on top of each other guns might not be so scary, and your legislators would lose the feeling that they could hide in the crowd. Further, VT and PA are nothing to compare yourself to.

      • While you do make many vaild points, I can not deny that, you forget that this recent push back is actually an anomaly. Since the early 1990s, legislation has been steadily and incrementally taking rights. The whole reason why this push back has happened clearly implies that the opposite has been the status quo up to now. What is to say that in 5-10 years things will not calm down and the process will not start again, with more slow attacks once again, spreading out from the coasts? It has happened before, and therefore, can happen again, and perhaps 20 years from now we will be back to where we were 5 years ago and the push back will start over. I understand what people say about the elected officials, that may not change. What I have suggested is fighting them when they try to circumvent the people’s rights. While they might not be removed from office, at the very least they might be discouraged from attempting their usual schemes if they encounter strong resistance at each turn.

18. Strategically speaking the thing to do would be to move from solidly gun unfriendly states to ones that are wavering and tip the balance in them while leaving anti-2A people inefficiently concentrated in a few states with declining populations, no?

    • Of course, I realize that we are individuals that must weigh many other factors rather than just what is strategically best for one of our interests. In the interest of full disclosure I must admit that I am moving from a wavering state to a solidly pro 2A state so I am not acting in the manner I outlined either.

19. To the sanctimonious fools (many of them commenting on this page) who reject any sympathy and support for those of us behind the lines, I have this to say:

    I will guarantee that gun owners in New York are fighting as hard if not harder for our rights than anyone out there. Not only on local issues, but we’re engaged at the national level as well. Would you prefer if those of us living in New York didn’t weigh in on the M855 controversy?

    I mean, hell, we’re already living under horrible restrictions, so why should we give a f**k if those restrictions go national? If other gun owners don’t care about us, in fact blame us for our plight, then why should we care what happens to the rest of you?

    But we do. And we fight the national battles so the rest of you won’t have to put up with this crap. So yeah, a little sympathy would be nice. And maybe a couple of bucks next time Rob Astorino runs for governor. Otherwise maybe the next time there’s a national push for universal background checks, I’ll sit on my ass instead of writing 500+ emails opposing the move.

    • Maybe you didn’t see the upstate voter turnout in the latest election.

      • You mean the part of the state where Rob Astorino won nearly every county? That upstate?

      • Yeah, man. Look at the way those upstate folks folded for Cuomo.

        http://www.politico.com/2014-election/results/map/governor/new-york/#.VXER61y-oS0

    • You’re talking about your neighbors needing jobs. Out here in fly-over country, we can’t fight through the brambles of cr_p to even get to support you on guns.

      How about this question. . . How can you say you give a damn about me or mine, if you want my help and support (OUTLAY OF MY VALUE AND PRIORITY [TERMS, J.M. Thomas R., 2012]) to gang up on a kid that hasn’t even hatched yet, when that kid only exists by your invitation?

      • How can you be “for America” but not for protecting its borders.

        If America is yours to give-away, it’s mine to take away from you.

        How can you deny Physics, Human Nature, and Human history, and be against America’s actions in foreign war(s), merely because your favorite pres. is not in the White House, and be silent when your guy is in.

    • From this sanctimonious fool:

      “The question is hereby asked, and answer demanded: How long will America last? [10].
      This is an unknown, and assertions can be guaranteed by no one. However the existence of
      America requires not only the desire by its incorporated societies, to defend it but by THE
      VERY MEANS. Therefore, possession and retention of arms (as a right) IS HEREBY
      GUARANTEED to outlive even the idea of America.” [TERMS, J.M. Thomas R., 2012, pg. 39]

20. Domino Theory.

21. I live in one of the crown jewls of gun control. the liberal bastion known as Connecticut. I refuse to move and give up the fight. There is a strong support for guns here in this state that is under estimated. The most recent gun controle bill was passed in an “emergency effort” with this in mind. Im confident in time change will come about on or side.

22. It’s not an easy path by any stretch of the imagination, but things can improve. I mean, we’re slowly doing it up here in Canada. That should give hope to folks living in many US states. I’d like it to be a lot faster, but politics are the art of the possible.

    • “we’re slowly doing it up here in Canada.”

      Why? It went quickly the other way.

      Like your healthcare. . .

      • A short while back Canada killed their long gun registry.

        It was very expensive and had nearly zero impact on legal convictions.

        That is the model to emulate here in the US to kill gun registration.

23. Government is imprisoning good people for exercising their unalienable, Constitutionally enumerated right to keep and bear arms for recreation and self-defense in places like California, New York, Maryland, New Jersey, etc.

    There are only three ways to stop it:
    (1) Garner enough votes in the populous to eliminate their unconstitutional laws.
    (2) Get U.S. Supreme Court decisions that overturn their unconstitutional laws.
    (3) Tens of thousands of armed good people march on their capitals and demand to be left alone or else.

    With a supermajority of both the populous and politicians embracing the status quo, option (1) will take decades (if ever) to happen.

    The U.S. Supreme Court has had ample opportunity to rule on cases and strike down many of the unconstitutional laws that violate the Second Amendment. However, the U.S. Supreme Court refuses to hear such cases. And rulings in lower courts are nothing more than a lottery where the outcome depends on which judge or judges hear the case. The courts have failed us.

    In summary neither our politicians nor our courts are acting lawfully and honorably any more. And why should they? They have no incentive. For those two simple reasons, they will not change and expending effort on the legislatures and courts is not going to bear fruit unless something radical changes.

    I can tell you one thing for certain: if 30,000 armed good people march on the capital of New York or California and demand that the state respect their unalienable Constitutionally enumerated right to keep and bear arms, you will see the legislatures change in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, that is the only language they understand.

    • After the SAFE Act passed, we DID have a rally with more than 10,000 people at the capitol in Albany. It was by all accounts one of the largest rallies Albany has ever seen.

      The Governor hid in NYC that day and all we got from Albany was a bill for bus parking and re-sodding the lawn.

      We have not given up by a long shot, but don’t tell us we are not trying.

      • NY seems like a State might be able to fight back. Up-state NY is pro-gun; only NYC and south-eastern precincts are Anti. The capital of NY is up-state.

        For NY to enforce its laws it needs up-state police, sheriffs, DAs and judges to act against the wishes of the population Up-state is where the guns are. If up-staters can manage to – effectively – succeed from NYC as respects gun laws the political “war” will be at full boil. If it became a matter of pride that the unconstitutional NY State laws couldn’t be enforced in up-state counties what could the governor or legislature do?

        Could the up-state counties take control of the NY State senate? If so, then those senators could block every piece of legislation as a means of expressing their displeasure with NY gun laws.

        Isn’t there already an up-state / NYC divide on a host of political issues? Couldn’t the up-state voters rally around guns as the issue to assert themselves on behalf of their geographic interests?

24. Thanks for addressing some of the misperceptions and positive changes occurring in New England. Massachusetts gets a bad rap but I challenge anyone to tell me of another state where you can drive to a fully nude strip club that serves alcohol while talking on a phone (with your hands) carrying a concealed firearm.
    And the whole “taxachusetts” thing is fraudulent as we are in the lower third for total taxes.
    All kidding aside, I can’t buy a Glock, Springfield, Kimber, etc, almost anything with a flash hider, folding stock, large cap mag.

    • There are several such states, try the one that’s OK. You could steer your car with your knee while threading on a suppressor on the pistol you bought cash-n-carry (along with some ammo) and talking on your cell phone.

      You’re leaving out all the other problems with liberalism on purpose, right?

    • Means nothing unless you can drive while fully nude! No compromise! Roll back all nudity control laws NOW!!!

      • By-God

25. I have nothing but love for POTG who are stuck behind enemy lines. I have nothing but contempt for the political class that keeps them as unarmed and defenseless as possible.

    The MA AWB is stupid and affects cosmetic features, so I can still buy, own and keep what I want. The ten round limitation is also stupid, and I circumvent it through extra mags and a New York reload. All in all, I have a comfortable gun life here in MA, with a great indoor range within walking distance. But if the nitwits who run the state clamp down like NY, CA or MD, I am out of here. Done. Finis.

    What you do in the other slave states is your business. Whatever it is, I support it. Good luck to you if you decide to shovel sand against the tide.

    • What recourse is there to challenge a state law that is clearly counter to the US constitution?

      Can a state constitution be unconstitutional at a federal level? If your state constitution is unconstitutional, can you remain part of the federation, or do you get kicked out?

      Yes, I am serious.

26. JP, a little help from the NRA wouldn’t hurt, but they do very little for gun owners here in NJ. Sorry, but that’s the sad truth. I’m still a member, but each time my membership is up for renewal I just shake my head. The SAF has done a lot more on a much smaller budget.

27. I don’t mind if you bash the gun laws (and admittedly others) here in NY, but in a recent thread a poster called NY a shithole. Not once, but twice. He knows nothing about NY and the folks here. I live in a very safe, peaceful conservative upstate area with great schools, great golf courses, entertainment and sports and very good opportunities.

    I have a large acreage property with wildlife everywhere. Is it perfect? Hell no. Do the gun laws blow? Absolutely. Am I over taxed? Ridiculously so. Will I move out of NY because of them? Possibly, but it will have to be to an area that is very similar to here (less the bs rules and regs). But make no mistake, to call NY a shithole is rude and totally wrong.

    End of rant.

    • Spent part of my life (1980s) growing up in Upstate NY. While some of the culture rankled my more libertarian hackles, I always remember growing up with a solid understanding of firearms and firearms safety. Guns weren’t demonized, they were tools, with the intent lying in the user, not the tool. I naïvely thought that you could just go get a gun at the gun shop. Which you could, sort of, during those days. And I knew people that carried, too. I just knew that you needed a “license or something”. I hunted with family members on occasion, but guns weren’t this big polarizing topic, they were just there.

      As I got older, I remember meeting downstate relatives, who acted like guns were the devil incarnate and somehow magically shot people on their own. What’s sad was I kind of lost interest for a bit, but when I moved to Florida at 18, my interest was rekindled due to the strong firearms tradition and culture, even in South Florida. Obviously the usage went more from hunting to recreational target shooting and self-defense. Eventually after a few close calls, and also when a friend successfully defended himself in a shoot-out situation, I decided to take the leap and start acquiring my own firearms, both for self-defense, and an amazingly interesting hobby.

      But was my interest seeded in Florida, or the South? Nope. Upstate New York. To abandon the quest for winning back New Yorkers’ firearms freedoms would be doing a severe act of disrespect to those who taught me the basics when I was a kid.

      New York, you used to be cool, but you’re having some problems right now. When you want to talk, let me know. Pod’s here for you.

    • On June 2, 2015 I was in the company of my wife for only the afternoon and evening. In the morning she had a hair appointment 11 miles away and around 2 PM we decided to take a ride. On that day she saw a hawk of unknown species, a bear, several deer, numerous turkeys, a partridge, a beaver, loons and a number of Canada geese. We did not even get out of the truck. Yeah, the taxes, politics and job situation suck but it can be hard to find a prettier place than Upstate New York between late Spring and late Fall. As for winter, Copenhagen is about 25 miles away and had 325 inches this past winter. (A little more than usual.)

      • There’s a beautiful winding river called the Sota, that winds its way through some beautiful countryside and a compound the size of a small town (in Poland). . .

        In other words, picture your scenic scenes with razor wire [if you’re lucky enough to not just get a moment of silence standing in front of a long trench you dug].

        Couldn’t happen, but has too many times to list here.

    • They probably meant NYC is a shithole. Upstate NY is very nice, although some areas get too much snow. People say NJ is a shithole, but I am sure they are thinking of Newark and not the more western reaches of the Garden State.

      Many states have their own shithole – usually a metropolis where people don’t know where their food comes from. The rest of the state is generally pretty nice as long as you stay out of {unnamed city full of progressives}.

      I am thankful for everyone fighting for our rights, whether they live in a state with awful, unconstitutional gun laws, or a state with minimal gun regulation. WA was a gun owners paradise until I594 was passed. Yes, we have our own progressive shithole that we call Seattle.

28. A stirring essay and much needed.
    Let us remember that the largest rights victory, and the most significant Supreme Court affirmation of human rights in the last sixty years came out of the battles in the benighted District of Columbia and the nearly-as-bad Prairie State. The last and best part, that even states and municipalities must obey the Bill of Rights of the Constitution, lest us recall, emanated from Chicago.
    A victory of this magnitude coming from a place that bad is all the bigger and we’re all benefiting from the actions of those Chicagoans who put their lives on hold for years to power the win.

29. People used to say ditch Minnesota because it’s so blue a state it was the only one opposed to Reagan’s re-election. We proved them wrong this year. Because we stayed and fought, we get our suppressor rights restored, we got a “no confiscation during emergency” aka Katrina law, and more. MN may still be a liberal paradise, especially in the Minneapolis-St Paul area, but we made it a better place to live by undoing some of the harm.

    And we did it all with a complete socialist in the governor’s mansion. We brought down his office phone system for a week, never letting up on the calls and filling the voice mail faster than they could mass delete them.

    • Minnesota is different. People there like to fish, hunt, and go up to their cabin on the weekend. It’s not blue in the east or west coast sense with a ton of corruption, extreme high cost of living, and very oppressive regulation. It’s more like Canada without poutine being sold on every corner.

30. The problem with NYC, NJ (all of it) and CA (most of it) is that they aren’t content to ruin their own states, they export their disease to other states in the form of transplants invading places like Colorado and screwing the laws up here.

    Colorado has pretty much been overrun by Californians. The sad thing is that many consider themselves conservative by the standards of their commie states but then you discuss issues with them and realize they are only slight less anti liberty than their ultra liberal brethren in their home state.

    • That’s what I’m worried about. Florida, and Texas, are growing at an amazing rate, and the biggest source of both of our population growths is the “slave” states. A lot of them come down here, and invariably some start pissing and moaning about setting up the same crap that ruined their home states. They get spooked when they realize our states have shall-issue CWFL schemes, and soon, open carry in Texas.

      A friend of mine who moved from NJ to FL (but not as a bad actor) was checking out my evil black rifle one fine afternoon. His parents were there, and walked into the dining room just as he was shouldering it (pointing at a wall, without a mag) and they nearly dropped dead. I didn’t help much by explaining that evil black rifles were common in civilian hands in Florida. And no, that it wasn’t an “automatic”.

      The dad tried to say “well, explains all your school shootings…”

      There hasn’t been a school shooting of newsworthy note in Florida in decades.

      And most crimes here involving a gun are done with a purloined pistol or shotgun.

31. What you MUST do is choose your battles appropriately. Just giving a blanket “Stay and fight no matter what” is a good way to end up on the losing end. Likewise, running from every conflict isn’t going to get you anywhere but defeated. Do not rush in blindly, but do not surrender. Look for an opportunity and when it arises, take it.

32. Kind of dig that Minuteman statue. Anybody know where you might find one a little smaller, something that would fit into a man cave or garage?

    • Without the big rock he’s standing on he’s not that big. About life size.. Used to hang out in that park a lot in HS in the 60’s. Lexington HS is about 3 blocks away.

33. CA POTG are winning cases against the State, or will be taking them to SCOTUS for national impact thanks to long careful step-by-step strategy by both NRA/Michel and Clement in Peruta, and SAF/Gura in Richards, due orals June 16th, with CSPAN and Fox broadcasting. Note the latest amicus bh Western Sheriffs Assn pointing out the divide between urban liberal dominated counties and rural counties that have been shall issue for self defense for years, particularly in the north: http://michellawyers.com/guncasetracker/perutavsandiego/

    Jackson v San Fran is a direct contradiction to Heller on firearms in home. Now on 6th relist, some expect a summary reversal w/ dissent, maybe an answer this Monday, or next in time to send a message to the 9th in Peruta. http://live.scotusblog.com/Event/Live_blog_of_orders_and_opinions__June_8_2015

    Calguns Foundation has Harris fighting rearguard acfions that are more lame and obstructionist than ever, on microstamping, 10 day limit for second gun, and more. Throw a few bucks in the tip jar, for as CA goes, so goes the Nation. https://www.calgunsfoundation.org/

    Most non CA just assume its hopeless, when in fact its been steady relentless grassroots effort with big bucks to pay talented experts, thay got us here, slowly turning the tide. Who would have thought the CCW map would look like it does now, when they first started the national effort 30 years ago in a much less pro-self defense environment. http://www.gun-nuttery.com/rtc.gif

    • “If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

      ― Samuel Adams

34. I’m still trying to wrap my mind around the Plessy v Ferguson reference.

35. Good for Maine. I also hope New Hampshire’s efforts come to fruition. Maybe then the stupid RINOS with a stranglehold on our legislature here in Tennessee will finally begin to catch a clue…

36. As a resident of the People’s Republic of New York City (and Surrounding Territories) which is where I live, I appreciate this article very much.

    I do get sick of the “Well you are an idiot for not moving” response to my frustration with now NYC Democratic Politics dominates the entire state. My family is here, my aging mother, my sister and nephew, aunts and uncles, cousins, friends, etc. On top of that, I am in a career field that is not exactly easy to simply start doing in another state. So calling me an idiot for not moving is not helpful or accurate.

    I feel stuck here. Trapped, even. And worried because the GOP has the thinnest possible hold on the State Senate and if they lose that, the entire state will be completely ruled by NYC Democrats.

    We do have a great subset of the NRA (not sure if that is an accurate way to describe them) in the NY State Rifle and Pistol Association, and they are fighting the SAFE act in court.

    On top of that, two of the three people who decided that the SAFE Act would pass have now been indicted on multiple counts of corruption and removed from their leadership posts, and the third, Governor Cuomo, is now also under investigation. Cold comfort, though, because we are a long, long way away from being able to change that law through the legislative process. The Dems chokehold on the assembly is insurmountable in the near future.

    Living just a few hours from the truly free people of Vermont does make me envious. If things were different, I admit, running would be a possibility. But here I am, with tens of thousands of like minded folk, stuck in NY and trying to figure out how to fight this.

    And don’t tell me politically, I just laid things out, and trust me, I know more about NY politics than anyone here. We are screwed because of NYC. Period.

    • Say it with me…
      SE-CES-SION

      That is the only way to fix it.
      That, and we’ll have full control of their water supply, muahahahahahahaha

37. People in places such as California, New York, or Maryland, that respect their residents’ civil right to keep and bear arms as much as the Supreme Court respected the right of American citizens to equal protection of the law in Plessy v. Ferguson often get a lot of condescending pity from those of us who live in free(-er) America. Those hearty gun owners on the other side of the wire also tend to get a lot of unsolicited advice, typically along the lines of “It’s time to start packing” or “If you’re a gun owner, and you live in New Jersey, I have one suggestion: move.” . . .

    There is an upside to moving for all of us should we all relocate in a particular place. If the concentration of angry guns owners reaches a certain threshold in a particular state, they may start to question and entertain the idea that all those nanny, welfare, and totalitarian Nazi laws that keeps being passed on the federal level, won’t matter if they all agree not the follow them. In fact, if they agree to it, they could write their own laws. If you know what I mean by that.

38. No one should move only because of gun laws. However these states have a long list of reasons to leave and no gun rights just happens to be a common denominator

    • Gun laws are a good litmus test of how screwed up other things in a particular area are.

39. How often have we heard it said that New England is terra incognita for gun owners? In reality, it is the Bos Wash corridor.

40. The problem with living in liberal statist areas is that your tax dollars and government are working against you.

41. I live in Massachusetts. I was born here, I have a home here. I’ve invested into this home considerably. When I hear “just move out”, I have to ask… Are you going to fund that? Make sure I have at my new home the things that I have here? Help me find work there? No? Then shut up.

    Further, I actually open carry here. Yeah, a big black H&K pistol on my hip, here in Massachusetts. And most everyone is either supportive of it or doesn’t say anything.

    • I lived the same place for most of my life and my family was there. Then I had to move cross-country three times for economic reasons due to the recession in the last six years. Each time, I encountered better gun rights and two of the moves, a better cost of living. I just ran a check on Mass-o-taxes. No matter where you live in that state, you could find a similar community in my state at 15-25% lower cost of living, not to mention better weather. So a move could be self-funding.

      The pioneers of this country didn’t ask questions like, “Who’s gonna pay for my move?” or “Who’s gonna find me a job?” They moved across the ocean, and/or traveled halfway across a continent for freedom.

      • The pioneers also weren’t told they have to move by random keyboard warriors on the Internet, either.

        The point I was actually trying to make (not so well) was that although there are “free-er” states out there, Massachusetts isn’t as bad as it’s made out to be. Places like Boston, Brockton, Fall River, the areas around Boston, they’re the problem. Once you go anywhere else in the state, it’s akin to the examples of upstate New York given further up in the comments.

        It’s another example of how the biggest cities in a state can make that whole state look bad.

42. Thanks for the article but as per usual I’m not surprised by some of the comments.

    As a lifelong resident of CT I’m tired of this “you made your bed”, “your are lost”, “you are probably a closet gun grabber” crap.

    Nothing I believe is adequately represented anywhere in this country. I never voted for or supported most of the laws/governors/representatives/polices etc that CT goes about going about. Why am I on the hook for it?

    That said, why should I move from this liberal cesspit to some conservative cesspit? I might get guns but maybe I’ll loose a job that pays me more (no thanks), maybe I’ll get some more bible thumping (no thanks), maybe I won’t be able to get contraceptives (no thanks), or buy beer on Sunday (no thanks), or smoke a little weed now and then (no thanks), or some other inane stupid law that puts the gov’s finger in my ass one way or the other and ignores my beliefs and values in a new and different way. I’ll stick with the devil I know intimately in the hopes of outwitting or changing him thank you.

    You know what the reality is? What the truth of it really is? It’s not this state is better than that one, this one is red and that one is blue, etc etc. Once we get over this binary political thinking and change our mind to really value freedom, things will start to get better. Fascism works from both ends; red or blue they just start at different points.

43. The west coast has a homosexual problem. Homosexuals do not believe in freedom. They believe in marijiuana intoxication. They believe in improviding their sexual performance using chrystal meth but they do not believe in individual personal liberty to own a firearm. If you keep voting for people who are against freedom and only for good legal sex with anyone, then freedom will not return to the west coast or other places in America.

    It was Tom Ammiano the open homosexual law maker who wrote the bill that jerry brown signed into law making everyone wait up to ten days longer to get a firearm. I wonder how may women have been raped because they could not get a gun when they needed it? This white homosexual man is stepping on the necks of people holding them down. And you keep voting for people like him.

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