One of the biggest problems with being an armed American: disarming. If, for example, you want to rub elbows with ladies who yoga pant at your local “gun free” Whole Foods, you have to stash your gat in your car. Kids soccer match? If they’re playing the beautiful game on school grounds…no heater for you boyo. And then there’s work and work-related events . . .
Most medium to large companies can and will can your ass for carrying. Most conference centers ban firearms as well. Where you gonna leave your gun then, Mr. High Flying Executive? Speaking of which, TTAG tipster mister3d sent us to a link to the Enterprise Connect conference he won’t be attending. See if you can spot the one rule to make a fool of the person who wrote the rule in their Code of Conduct:
3. Unacceptable behavior & materials include, but are not limited to:
Unacceptable behaviors & materials include: intimidating, harassing, abusive, discriminatory, derogatory, or demeaning materials or conduct by any attendees of the event and related event activities. Many event venues are shared with members of the public; please be respectful to all patrons of these locations.
Harassment includes: offensive comments (verbal, written, or otherwise) related to gender, sexual orientation, race, religion, disability; inappropriate use of nudity and/or sexual images in public spaces (including presentation slides); deliberate intimidation, stalking or following; harassing materials, photography or recording; sustained disruption of talks or other events (whether verbal or otherwise); inappropriate physical contact, and unwelcome sexual attention.
Wearing clothing that is not suitable for a professional work environment, that is provocative, or otherwise potentially offensive.
Physical, written, verbal or other abuse, intimidation, threats, annoyance, harassment, stalking, pushing, shoving or use of any physical force whatsoever against any person, which in any way creates a disturbance that is disruptive or dangerous, or creates apprehension in a person, as determined by UBM and its show management, in their sole discretion.
Possession of any item that can be used as a weapon, which may cause danger to others if used in a certain manner.
Any boisterous, lewd or offensive behavior or language, including but not limited to using sexually explicit or offensive language, materials or conduct, or any language, behavior or content that contains profanity, obscene gestures, or racial, religious or ethnic slurs,
Possessing any open can, bottle or other receptacle containing any alcoholic beverages, except in areas specifically designated for the consumption of alcohol. Please drink responsibly.
Possessing any illegal substance, including but not limited to narcotics, marijuana, or other illegal drugs. UBM does not tolerate the use or abuse of illegal substances anywhere in the Venue.
Smoking – other than in designated areas.Assembling for the purpose of, or resulting in, disturbing the peace, or committing any unlawful act or engaging in any offensive behavior.
Failure to obey any rules or regulations of the Venue.
“Most of this is ‘act like an adult,'” mister3d opines. “Except this: ‘Possession of any item that can be used as a weapon, which may cause danger to others if used in a certain manner.’ Certain manner? Any item? Like a pen? Heavy laptop bag? Fist? Chair? Keys? When I was in the service, they taught me to improvise, use ANYTHING at hand, and fight dirty if need be. Geez.” Geez indeed.
Your only guilty if you get caught.
They will only see it, or hear it when I need it to defend myself, then hopefully I will be alive to be fired. I don’t care if they fire my dead body.
I agree. As Cormac McCarthy said in No Country for Old Men, “When the shooting starts, do you want to be armed, or do you want to be legal?”
Legal? No. Legal only applies to a law passed and signed be those elected.
Companies (and trade shows/conferences) can’t not create law.
If the law gives power to signs and policies, then they wield the power of law. They aren’t creating law, they are utilizing it.
The law to which it refers is private property laws. In some states, a polite request has the force of law.It may be a misdemeanor, but it is still an offense.
As Robert Heinlein once wrote: “There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.”
It’s like “grave danger”…is the any other sort?
But to answer the question, I consider weapons as being capable of inflicting damage or injury on the intended target. Dangerous weapons are ones that might cause damage or injury upon the user in the course of their operation.
Clearly you have never been in casual danger before. /sarc
As long as I don’t have to pass through a metal detector or get a pat-down, I carry. Always have, always will.
Big Boy Rules.
Ditto-ritto.
good to see another tech geek among the bunch. Am I the only one that gets bombarded with emails from UBM? They must have a hella Senderbase score.
And I have found they are usually just trying to sell something.
Does UBM stand for Unseemly Bowel Movement?
I suppose not, but it should.
So, if this were held at the University of Texas-Austin, would all of the genius “open carrying” dildos be denied entry?
Considering that would most likely fall under the sexual harassment portion of the policy. ..
“deliberate intimidation”
Sounds like deliberate intimidation to deny you an enumerated civil right.
DEMAND they accommodate your civil rights or sue them flat-footed.
“Possession of any item that can be used as a weapon, which may cause danger to others if used in a certain manner” is forbidden, huh? Does that include pens or pencils that could be jammed into my eye socket? While we’re on the subject, blinding someone is an injury serious enough to legally justify defense using deadly force.
This is from the transcript of this FBI posted video:
Run. Hide. Fight. Surviving an Active Shooter Event
FIGHT. As a last resort, and only if your life is in danger:
· Attempt to incapacitate the shooter.
· Act with physical aggression.
· Improvise weapons.
· Commit to your actions.
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cirg/active-shooter-and-mass-casualty-incidents/run-hide-fight-video
No conference for YOU!
Bad breath can be awful if used in a certain manner.
There’s no concealed carry in Whole Foods? Oops.
Between Whole Body and Whole Meats is their Whole Gun section. It’s right by the .39 a gallon bulk water osmosis dispenser. You’ve never seen it?
So leave the tactical cough drops at home, I guess…
I told ’em that at baggage check in one time: “Anything within arms reach of me is a weapon”.
SSSSS
Speaking of Whole Foods, I was in their South Austin “Arbor Trails” store today, sign is nearly invisible high up on a dark window and not at all in direct line of sight. Letters may be 1″ block but they are dark grey on a dark tinted window hardly a contrasting background, and the language of the sign claims to ban open and concealed carry but only referrences 30.06 and does not have the required language for both statutes (does not even mention 30.07)
Is there a way to report non-comliant signs and force them to put the proper signeage? I wasn’t carrying, but I paid special attention when walking in to see if they had signs posted. I didn’t even notice them until I was leaving because the sun shining through the door backlit the letters better. Im completely fine with private business determining who they want to serve and not serve, but if there is a specific law that dictate how they should do it I am inclined to think there should be penalties if they dont follow it. Given that they effectively are making people criminals (had I been carrying I would have been committing a crime since I didnt see the signs while walking up), there should be some sort of enforcement so that others dont fall foul. I mean I get it, they dont want a 4 foot tall sign on high contrast block letters announcing to any criminal halfway across the parking lot that there is a target rich environment, but that isn’t our fault that they have chosen to make it that way. We follow the law, so should they. Thoughts? I took a picture with my cellphone on the way out, happy to send it anywhere that would rattle cages.
On the other hand, but NOT reporting it you are giving a fellow gun owner legal space to contest forcible ejection. Just sayin’ . . .
Screw that, make them clutter up their doors with all the correct signage.
Screw THAT. Make them clutter up their doors and windows with signage that does not meet the legal criteria and does not hold the force of law.
If they were serious about not wanting guns in their business they would have complied with the law rather than put up “window dressing” to keep their hoplophobic customers happy.
@Cliff H: Except that the main reason most signs are non-compliant is because they are intentionally printed smaller than the required size, not in both languages as dictated by law, not easily visible at all points of entry, not on a contrasting background, or some combination of these factors. All so that precisely they do not stand out and clutter up the entrance of their store/business.
Tex, in that case just ignore them, they have no force of law behind them since they are non-compliant! At least for concealed, that should just make us all happy. I saw a little grill today with the entire doorway covered with huge nd garish signs, 30.06 and probably 30.07, didn’t worry that far since I was CC anyway. Thought to myself, I guess they just have too many customers, are worried about getting too rich, as I scratched them off the lunch list, ended up at Schlotzkys. Do you suppose there is anyone who only eats at places which have 30.06 signs?
True, I considered that, although one of the main reasons why businesses ban carry (open and/or concealed) is because it makes them feel good or accomplishes some political activist goal that upper management believes in; however, doing so legally is inconvenient because the compliant sign puts a giant bullseye on their door, and it is ugly to boot. It also runs the risk of losing them business from firearms owners and fence straddlers who may or may not carry a gun every day in a state known for having lots of people who own guns.
Here’s how I see it they either actually believe a sign will save them from the evil gun owners and have a disdain for peoples’ civil rights, but they are two cowardly to openly post it for the reasons (and others) already mentioned Or they have been contacted by anti gun activist groups, and while they may or may not decide to ban concealed and open carry they mostly just want the demanding moms to leave them alone. In either case a non-compliant sign allows them to resolve their problem at a minimum cost to their business. It is half assed so that hopefully few people see it and customers don’t have to look at some giant legal sign that is likely bigger and uglier than their own logo.
In either case I take the opinion that forcing them to comply is the best course, why? because for the first group I say put your money where your mouth is, if you really believe firearms are a scourge and an adhesive sign makes you safer, be proud, advertise to the whole world and suffer any consequences that come from your stance. For the second group, there are very few things that annoy me more than people who are lukewarm about things. If you really wanted MDA to leave you alone and dont want to get involved, then refuse to put up a sign and tell them to pound sand (see Kroger), if you are just trying to make activists happy though then I reiterate, put the real sign up and suffer the consequences.
No half measures Walt.
Businesses should just refer complainers to their prohibition manager, and advise them that person has full authority to establish policies such as they are interested in. Then give them Shannon’s phone number.
Why do those jokers any favors?
Stop going there, and let a CCer who gets caught have the loophole.
See my response to Robert.
There is this as well, and in the same category:
“or otherwise potentially offensive.”
EVERYTHING is “potentially”offensive to SOMEbody. For examples, being too tall, too short, too fat, too skinny, or Black, White, Asian, etc.
Always ignore such blather, and carry anyway as the only way it will become apparent is if you are forced to defend yours or another’s life- then let them go ahead and try to prosecute you for it. As the old saying goes- I’d rather be judged by twelve than carried by six!
Here in TX, it was recently lowered to a Class C misdemeanor (fine not to exceed $500), it is effectively the same thing as a traffic ticket except your insurance rates wont go up so it is actually not as bad.
Tex, I think the max fine is $200, not $500.
they apparently do not realize you do not need and object to cause damage. Hands, feet, elbows and knees can be used tomain and kill.
The conferenece also has Continental Breakfast,Refreshment Breaks, and Lunch. So between forks, knifes, and drinking glasses they are mostly likely breaking there own policy.
But hey… they feel safer… thats all that counts.
Some of those menu items might qualify as precursors for weapons-grade biological gas agents…
*snicker*
I’ve been known to be a weapon of mass destruction, depending on what’s being served for lunch.
Just sayin….
“… Possessing any open can, bottle or other receptacle containing any alcoholic beverages, except in areas specifically designated for the consumption of alcohol. Please drink responsibly . …”
Blech. Statist douches.
There’s the runner-up to the most trite phrase of this decade: ‘If it saves just one life…’.
Here’s an idea; How about just be responsible, whether you’re drinking or not.
Statist? It’s a private organization.
“inappropriate use of nudity”
Thou shalt not offend public morals – because nobody has ever seen themself or anyone else naked and it is so totally unnatural…
With regard to ‘appropriate’ use of nudity, please write to your leaders to ask them what guidance they have given as instruction to their guardians of peace in the appropriate response to organised demonstrations of nudity, fornication, and other associated natural and necessary human behaviour supposedly regarded by our ‘betters’ as indeceny.
“organised {MASS, PUBLIC} demonstrations”
#OrgiesAgainstIsis
Attention, dentally-challenged: leave your dentures at home. Those sumbitches are dangerous when used in a certain way.
That is all.
“Possession of any item that can be used as a weapon, which may cause danger to others if used in a certain manner.”
yrs ago, I had a lesbian neighbor who got in a huge fight with her GF.. she used a pair of Panties to try to strangle her… True Story…
I guess it’s commando time at the conference
Unless your profession is working at a Mom and Pop gun shop, or a gun range, most medium to large companies will can you for carrying. It’s to protect their liability in case of a civil suit, even if a shooting is justified. It ain’t just you, but the jobs of everyone you work with.
There are those of us who will not spend our disposable income,or grocery money at businesses where guns aren’t welcome. That’s fine. That’s a choice.
However, unless I missed it, some have said “Go ahead and fire me.” But, I didn’t see anyone volunteer to quit. That’s a choice.
Walk in with no pants, when they ask why tell them you can choke someone to death with them.
There was a gas station I frequented just across state lines in Mississippi where I would stop before a trip to the range. They put a big no firearms allowed on premises sign on their doorway at some point. I blasted them on Google reviews and asked that anyone believing in the second ammendment not stop at this location. They have since taken down the sign. Winning.
Luckily Indiana has passed a law within the last decade that you can keep a (locked, IIRC) handgun (maybe other firearms as well, but I believe this was related to carry law), in your car, parked in your employer’s parking lot. As long as the gun never leaves the vehicle, the employer can’t legally do Jack. I feel that rational companies would allow carry on all premises but that is a different conversation…
Ah, here is the exact code: https://iga.in.gov/static-documents/b/b/7/f/bb7f81f3/TITLE34_AR28_ch7.pdf
Left in a car is NOT “secured”.
Yet some how, my EDC still finds it way to my 3:30 position in a tuck-able IWB holster.
It’s a disgusting policy, but I can’t help smiling at the irony. UBM owns Black Hat. One of the premier security conferences. While it primarily deals with security related to computing environments, physical security issues are regularly addressed.
As a security professional, I’ve always wanted to attend Black Hat, but after reading this, I will never attend and will encourage everyone I know in the field to boycott any UBM conference.
If you are carrying concealed, then no one will know, so the issue is moot.
If you carry concealed and need to USE your weapon, remember that it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
This has to be targeted at gov’t. Who else is stupid enough to blow $2400 on a BS junket/conference. Well the “tech industry” has demonstrate the are just moronic as gov’t.
Interesting enough, the one Whole Foods in Tucson I sometimes go to and the one I visited in PA did not have any anti-2A signs, so I guess it’s an individual store policy, not a corporate one.
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