Escort’s New BTS Bullpup Shotguns in 12 Gauge and .410 Bore

1. I like the design on paper, but I’ve never shot a Turkish gun I thought was worth the metal it was made of. Anyone here have personal experience with Hatsan firearms?

   • I don’t know if it was Hatsan, but my first handgun was a Turkish copy of the Baby Eagle, and it was a great gun.
     I also recently got a Turkish 1911 made by Tisas, and after about 500 rounds, I’ve had no problems.

   • So those slots on the side of the receiver – are those for hooking it on a nail?

2. This would be an interesting niche gun “just for fun” if it held more than only 5 shells. Perhaps understandable for 12-ga, but for .410? Is there a reason? Does the brass perhaps prevent stacking 10 shells of the thinner .410 in a mag? 3″ magnum defense loads (000 buck) have the same muzzle energy as 9mm Hydra-Shok JHP, and with a much more manageable recoil due to the bullpup frame.

   https://s30380.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/0812-410-BORE-SHOTSHELL.pdf

   http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html

   • Mag limit is due to import laws, make it 922r compliant and you can load any size mag you want.

     • Ah, got it. Was not previously aware of that requirement. Thx.

       Not sure for the original reasoning behind 922r.

       • Gun control is reason enough.

   • James is on point. Anything incoming that crosses the border is subject to a 5 rnd. mag restriction. It (922r) is totally arbitrary and capricious bs, but there it is. Title 18 USC 922r is one everyone should be familiar with, and fighting.

     https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

     Worthy of note, there is a lot of debate about whether 922r is applicable to only import companies, or the consumer as well. BATFE has made no move to clarify the position, nor has Congress. AFAIK, no individual has ever been charged under a 922r violation.

     Disclaimer: IANAL, I am not advising anyone to be a legal litmus test. While I think we, the PotG, should indeed challenge 922r, I would not recommend being the person to do so unless you are financially capable of a very long legal battle, all the way up the flag pole, until those at the tip-top salute it.

     • Hey 9×39, I had no intention of criticising your comment. TTAG’s software is doing all kinds of weird stuff right now, and I’ve had to repost several times in the last few minutes, will try to delete and repost in correct place one more time, must get back to work in 2 minutes, though.

       • No worries mate. I didn’t take it as such, at all. Figured it for a site gaff right out of the box.

   • THIS STATEMENT IS A HUGE ERROR! “3″ magnum defense loads (000 buck) have the same muzzle energy as 9mm”? No they don’t. I’m on break at work, so I’m not going to look it up, but I don’t need to: 12-gauge loads have at least 2500 foot-pounds of energy, and 9 mm hangun loads have about one tenth that much. A 9 mm long gun will put out more muzzle energy than a 9 mm handgun, but not ten times more, or even twice as much, or even 50% more, or even 25% more, or…

   • THIS STATEMENT IS A HUGE ERROR: “3″ magnum defense loads (000 buck) have the same muzzle energy as 9mm”? No they don’t. I’m on break at work, so I’m not going to look it up, but I don’t need to: 12-gauge loads have at least 2500 foot-pounds of energy, and 9 mm hangun loads have about one tenth that much. A 9 mm long gun will put out more muzzle energy than a 9 mm handgun, but not ten times more, or even twice as much, or even 50% more, or even 25% more, or…

3. Don’t care. Turkey is run by an Islamist wannabe dictator friendlier to Russia than to the USA. No way in hell I will spend a single dollar supporting a country that’s liable to abandon NATO and the West at any moment.

   • If we are lucky, the US will soon abandon NATO and bring all our troops home. We should have left 30 odd years ago.

     • Hey then I would have missed out of those wonderful years serving in Germany

     • Insane nonsense.

       • serving your country is insane?

       • Huh? No, abandoning NATO is insane.

       • Is it so insane?

         Since when did the parameters of World War Two require us to defend Europe into infinitum?

         Europe is plenty capable of defending itself. We don’t need to continue to spend enormous sums of US tax dollars to fend off the Russian bear.

         And we do it for free.

         Ever wonder how Europe pays for extensive social programs and healthcare, with little trouble? It’s not the magic of socialism.

         It’s the magic of the US DOD providing free protection. Europe used to have to pay for their own massive militaries. They should do so again .
         A militarily stronger Europe would also help the US draw down in the Middle East, as a peaceful Middle East would be paramount to a Europe on its own.

         The US can then refocus its military efforts entirely on the pacific and Western Hemisphere whine being able to scale back the enormous defense budget without having to reduce military effectiveness.

   • Exactly! Turkey is run by a wannabe dictator who is friendlier to Russia than to the US. Who needs that from Turkey? We can get that right here in the White House.

     • Go back to watching CNN, moron.

       • Not hardly, there’s too much truth in that statement for comfort.

       • If you don’t think that Trump is cuddlier to Putin than any recent American leader, D or R, you have purposefully been not paying attention.

       • Funny how liberals still just can’t let go of the Russian collusion conspiracy theory that was manufactured by the NYT.

       • By cuddlier, do you mean saying nice words about their leader, or do you mean providing weapons and missile defense systems to Europe that Obama refused to provide? Do you mean getting more funding for NATO? Do you mean tougher sanctions? Do you mean calling out Russia for violating a treaty? Remember how tough Obama was on Russia? He told them to, “Cut it out.”

         Words and actions are different things Hannibal. Perhaps you haven’t been paying attention, or more likely you’re just paying attention to the Trump hating media.

     • Ah, i see your talking about the Barry Obahma administration.

   • In that case, what’s your stance on IWI firearms?

     • Love their ammo. Wish I could find more of their XM193 to buy. The castrated versions of their weapons without a giggle switch that we mere mortals can buy don’t interest me. Their handguns are either novelty items or CZ clones, which don’t interest me. Besides being bulky, I’ve never had reliability issues except for Desert Eagles.

   • You are probably right about Turkey abandoning the west. So where does that leave us?

     We should probably go ahead and abandon them first, but we need to recognize what that will entail.

     Turkey wants a return of the Ottoman Empire. So, they’re going to act as such. They will try to conquer all of Syria, possibly parts of Iraq. Other smaller territories in between them and the New Russian Empire are also screwed. They will also eventually cross paths with Iran, and beat them. And as friendly as Russia is with them now, eventually they will become hostile again as Turkey returns to regional power status and threatens Russia’s dominance in the Black Sea. In the process they may or may not commit a genocide or war crimes.

     Why does this matter? Because the US continually gets sucked into all these messes and we pay in blood and treasure in order to maintain the status quo. We need to learn to accept that is not natural state in world history. I’m not saying that I like this, but it is true. We cannot over extend ourselves and police the world forever. That will ultimately lead to our own demise. If we could get the world to collectively pay us for such a system, that would be different, but that is never going to happen.

     A more realistic option for us is pull back to our hemisphere and also maintain a decent Naval presence in the pacific for trade. We can then free up much of that defense spending for establishing a space economy, which is something we desperately want to be first in.

     • I agree in part. The stop gap to Turkey is Israel and Iran, plus the Kurds who have no desire to be dominated by the Turks, not just from the territorial perspective, but because Erdogan has a blood hatred for their race. The Kurds are the one stable ally outside of Israel that we have in the region. But I do not think that we can abandon Europe to the Russian sphere. Unfortunately, Germany has acquired a pacifist streak a mile wide that has left its military in shambles. And no matter how strained p[olitical relations may have become, the European people, and the Baltic states still look to America as a beacon of freedom and as protection front he Russian bear. A Pacific presence is important as well due to the increasing pressure from the dragon that has every intention of controlling that entire hemisphere. without us, the nations of the South China Sea will fall as pawns to the ever increasing Chinese military presence in the region coupled with ever expanding territorial claims. Although China needs us (its economy is wholly dependent on foreign trade), the fact is that we are in the midst of an undeclared war.

       • First things first – We *must* get our nukes the fuck outta there, and *fast*.

         No bomb for Islam…

4. Interesting but I won’t buy Turkish. I’m sure they have 10rounds& up mags available. Seen this reviewed by YouTuber’s…

5. These are more effective at < 125 yards than a 9mm submachinegun. I don't have one of these but, I have a Hunt Group FD12 similar bullpup. This one's angle grip is not as effective in distribution recoil as mine with the forward vertical pistol grip. It is good that the carry hand comes off because you don't need it with a center mounted single point sling. As for the sights, a good dual mod green IR laser solves that problem and you don't need the cheek rest stock stuff. Especially when you are working at night heads up with PVS-14s. Don't like putting my face on a chamber anyway. Nevertheless a good bullpup shotgun has real versatility. You can shoot non-lethal, signal flares, birds, quad rotor drone, deer, hogs, and anarchist with equal capability. It is the best solution in urban, suburban and rural around the house defense. Where else are you going to get this firepower without a class III tax stamp. Mine is only 28" long and has an optional muzzle break or suppressor options. Ten round stick magazines are more efficient in handling even though you can have a 20 round drum. Interesting to know if 410 version double stacks in magazine.
   I do have a problem with mine, and that is assembly and disassembly. Turkish culture turns everything opposite of ours. Lefty loosey righty tighty ain't happening with these things.

6. .410 bullpup??? Adding a light/laser and using the new.410 “pistol” ammo, this should be an almost ideal home defense gun. Agree that a larger magazine would be nice, but one should always have a minimum of (3) magazines for any firearm. One with birdshot for four legged critters, and another with the .410 “pistol” round of choice. Third magazine would be either more “pistol” rounds or 3″ slugs.

7. I got a Turk bull pup shotty & outside of the fully loaded weight of 14 rounds, it’s never let me down, with a laser & flash light, it’s heavy but in a tense situation you wouldn’t notice.
   I’m a sucker for combat shotgun’s , have a few.
   My fave is my modified KSG, close second is my SKO Shorty, then my UTA bully & then the Saiga, then my …………..

   • Likewise on tactical and having a few. My Black Aces Tactical semi-auto puppy whips up on my saiga, length wright and rate of fire. Same finger speed shorter gas system. Also 000 Bucks add 25 yards to lethality over 00 Buck. Firing eight 71gr 9.14mm pellets per shot is good and they have a much better G1 aero

8. I have a feeling that this constitutes an “assault weapon” in California.

   • Or if doesn’t, it will soon after Sacramento gets a “consultation call” from CADOJ

9. VerendusAudeo says:
   July 12, 2020 at 17:19
   Exactly! Turkey is run by a wannabe dictator who is friendlier to Russia than to the US. Who needs that from Turkey? We can get that right here in the White House.

   You got that right!!

   • Talking about the Barry Obama administration then.

     • Are you willfully ignorant or just a moron? Trump has literally done nothing about Russia putting bounties on our soldiers AND PAYING THEM OUT TO THE TALIBAN. Trump wanted to share info w/ Russia despite getting nothing in return, as well as the fact that the info he wanted to share COULD HARM US.

       Are you fucking stupid?

       • Stop regurgitating media bs, that story has no corroboration it’s another load from “credible but unnamed sources”. Btw if the administration is so in love we russia why did it ok taking out those russian mercs or carrying out strikes on an airbase known to have russian military personnel on it. Do you suffer from memory lapses? Because barry told us that anyone that was suspicious of puttin was an obsolete cold war relic. Or maybe you remember hillary giving them that stupid reset button. Now run along and come up with a new lame name and troll someplacce else.

       • According to Colin Powell, a Republican, this has been going on for a long time–on both sides. And if it is true, what of it? Back when Russia was in Afghanistan, we were paying the Taliban and Al Queda to kill Russian soldiers, during the Syrian fiasco, Obama was paying Islamists to kill Syrian government soldiers, on so forth and so on. Hell, JFK was paying Cuban refugees to invade Cuba to overthrow Castro. This isn’t news.

10. BTS? Way to name a shotgun after a bunch of dancing androgynous South Koreans.

    • Good luck importing a Daewoo USAS-12.

      • Buddy of mine has one. Kinda weird, but cool as fuck…

11. I’ll have a bullpup 12ga when Mossberg or Savage presents it to me. I have no desire for anything made in Turkey.

    • Mossberg manufacturers some firearms in Turkey and also imports parts.

      I’m a Mossberg fan, but I really wonder why we can’t make shotguns in the USA.

      My recent quest for a budget O/U buying a CZ (Huglu) new from Turkey. I considered a used Ruger Red label off gun broker but I couldNot find one cheap enough. Turkish O/U shotguns are the only choice under $1000.

12. The amount of janky looking shotguns floating over from Turkey is insane.

    I dunno, bullpups are tacticool and all but I’ll stick with my Mossy 590. I don’t feel outgunned with it.

    • Exactly, keep it simple.

    • Tacticool or not, I’d rather a pup indoors over a more conventional design like that 590. Maneuver is a thing, and BP’s make that far easier to accomplish, for a fair amount of advantageous physics reasons above & beyond the reduced OAL.

      I adore my Vepr, but the pup is my go-to inside. 31.5″ w/ a full 20″ barrel, what’s not to like?

13. A semi auto bull pup .410 would be a boon for my 5 foot tall wife. But not from Turkey.

    • Why does it not have removable chokes? It baffles me that any shotgun is made without removable chokes.

      • Maybe because of the price point? For a semi auto it is fairly cheap.

        • Possibly, but the 12 g. Has removable ones and the 410 does not, yet they have the same msrp.

      • Most combat shotguns don’t come in anything other than cylinder bore. To that end, there is a purpose for desiring wider spread. A fair number of those come with threaded barrels which can be used with external chokes, if desired. Or, in the case of specialty situations, read as braked, there are a few smiths that provide services to add an internal choke.

        That last one, is a debate in my mind, currently ongoing. Not sure if need, or want. Loosening choke is just one more possible point of failure in a fight.

        Not really sure why it would matter in the days of Versatite/FliteControl wads, unless you just wanted to use a different brand, or are loading your own. In which case, getting those particular wads is nigh impossible. Not absolutely impossible, defect reclamation is a thing too.

        • it depends on the importer distributor. Hunt Group FD12 bullpup by Black Aces Tactical warranties theirs. They come with three chokes and tools, 2 five round magazines, front pistol grip and a hard side rifle carrying case.

        • Thanks, I am aware of that. 🙂

          The reference to a braked gun I’m contemplating the addition of a choke to, is a Vepr 12. My VRBP-100 (Derya N-100) came equipped with one, although in the future, I’m going to have a few barrel inches excised, and brake it too. At which time, I may, or may not have it re-cut for a choke.

          As to the accessories, the -100 has the exact same assortment, but the FD-12 wasn’t yet available when I got mine.

          Purpose of the purchase of the -100 was to have something available when I send off my Vepr to have the last few remaining operations done, one of which that requires a Class 03 SOT, and a specialist with regards to AKM/RPK platforms. One of my requirements is case hardening, and none other than a specialist is going to have the proper rivet tools for an RPK in this country. AKM’s, AK’s? Sure, np. RPK’s, that’s a problem.

          I’ve taken the Vepr as far as anyone who isn’t a specialist can, aside from pondering changing the stock. Not particularly fond of it’s LOP, it’s a little long for my frame. Folder complicates, and makes things pricier by a bit.

        • “exact same assortment”

          Meant to put in there, minus the vfg. Although it does have a replacement insert for with 1913 rail for one.

        • The muzzle Break for the FD12 is
          Phantom Muzzle Break – with Benelli Style Choke Adapter $59
          Altantic Firearms bishipville MD

        • Brake on my Vepr is a GK 03++, only rivaled in performance by it’s predecessor, the GK 02 for recoil mitigation depending on the load. Muzzle climb reduction is better than the 02, and only exceeded by the BadBoy v6, which, does nothing noteworthy for recoil. Vang is worth it, if they will do work on your gun.

          Which leaves the 03++ or 02, depending on the load, as the best shotgun comp/brakes in the world. I’ll be sticking with what I’ve got. Price is $150, available through 4Shooters, and Dissident Arms if you’d like an upgrade.

          You’ll need to re-cut the threads, M22 x .75 is correct, off the top of my head.

14. I have Mossberg’s also,,, no complaints,,, they were first in my buying spree, kinda forgot about them with all the other high capacity shotguns,,,good stuff, I actually bought one for my grandson for a b- day present, a 500 if I’m right. He carried it on my place in MT. Every day, but there you have to have a weapon . Way too many animals that think your dinner…

15. What is with all this Turkish junk? Makes me long for the days of good reviews from Pete Kokalis.

    I’ll stick with my KSG.

    • KSG, where the design department is bigger than the manufacturing section?

16. Not to keen on doing a cheek weld with my face near an ejection port venting hot gas.
    Hard pass.

    • I don’t do either. Your head is up using NVGs so you are using IR laser for pointing. same process in daylight just using a green laser. These things are nice pray and spray suppression weapons when you have multiple targets in proximity for home defense.

17. Do they shoot doves?

    • Sure but even better for quad rotor surveillance drones

18. I have a Linberta 12 gauge (870 clone) from Turkey that I bought back before I got my shit together and actually got into a profitable career. It’s been a great gun actually. But as soon as all this crap ends, time for a new Mossberg!

19. This appears to be information directly from the company, or at least reads like that. But not marked as a sponsored post?

20. I want a HUNTING shotgun that is a gas operated bull pup.

    I like the idea of using a bull pup to hunt turkey etc. and gas operated is low recoil
    And easy to use with an optic.

    Why are they always tactical ?

21. A 410 but not a 20? How dumb is that?

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