We now know that the attacker who opened fire on Republican congressional leaders at a baseball field in Virginia earlier this week used an SKS rifle. That didn’t stop plenty of mainstream media outlets from jumping to conclusions about the type of firearm used as soon as the news broke…with predictable and inaccurate results.
For a group of outlets that call themselves impartial purveyors of true and accurate reporting they sure do a terrible job when it comes to guns.
New York Magazine claimed that the shooter “was armed with a pistol and an M4 automatic weapon.” Not only is the type of rifle wrong but the SKS was semi-automatic. “Automatic” implies a machine gun, which is generally illegal for civilian ownership outside some hugely expensive exceptions.
Then again, asking New York Magazine to have even a passing understanding of firearms might be more than we should expect from the oh-so-well-educated, sophisticated, effete class of people who run that rag.
CBS’s initial report stated that “CBS News confirmed he used an M4 assault rifle.” That article hasn’t been updated to remove the now debunked “fact.”
A website called The Right Scoop got the scoop completely wrong, proclaiming in the title of their article that the weapon had been identified as an M4. No, no it wasn’t.
While CBS might be forgiven for hastily putting up an inaccurate post as a story breaks, the NY Daily News published an article nearly 24 hours after the actual make and model of the firearm were identified complete with a photo of an AR-15 and the caption “An M4 Colt rifle similar to the one Hodgkinson used in the shooting.”
ABC News was slightly better. They correctly identified the firearm as an SKS, but went the extra step of calling it an “assault rifle.” The specific quote: “sources told ABC News that the primary weapon used in shooting was an SKS 7.62 assault-style rifle.”
The Daily Beast claimed in its coverage that “a maniac with an assault rifle opened fire at the congressional baseball practice on Wednesday morning.”
Against all odds, CNN probably came the closest to getting it right, claiming the weapon was “an SKS 7.62.39 rifle (a Chinese-made variant of the popular AK rifle).”
Except (A) we don’t know whether the weapon was actually a Norinco Chinese SKS (the majority of SKS rifles in the US are from Yugoslavia), (B) the SKS pre-dates the AK-47 by a good number of years, so the AK-47 is more accurately a variant of the SKS (still wrong, but less wrong), and (C) that would be 7.62×39, as the other caliber stated is simply an unintelligible jumble that doesn’t actually mean anything.
While you might be tempted to shrug these inaccuracies off as pedantic, inconsequential details, the truth is that these articles help form the narrative in gun muggle’s minds. While the SKS isn’t an “assault weapon” in either the federal or the various state “assault weapons” ban bills, media outlets nevertheless apply the label as liberally as possible.
Use of the label creates the idea in people’s minds that since all these attacks used an “assault weapon” banning them will do something to stop them from happening. The reality is that this weapon used this week would not have been included in any “assault weapons” ban we’ve ever seen.
Inaccuracies with details like this one — details which are so easy to verify — also lead to another question: what else are they getting wrong?
If the news outlets can’t even be bothered to check which make and model of firearm was used in a high profile crime, do they also apply that same level of, uh, critical thinking and fact checking to other aspects of their reports?
It makes you wonder whether they’re reliable news sources at all. And, quite frankly, the answer seems to be “no.”
AK-47 is more accurately a variant of the SKS ????? Really, so I guess the Ar-15 is a variant of the M14??
No, but it’s “more accurate” to say that the AR-15 is a variant of the M14 than vice-versa. Both statements are wrong, but one is less wrong (because the other is a chronological impossibility).
Sks predates ak by 2 yrs. Also it couldve been an sks d, m, or sporter models, that take ak mags. An sks is definitely classified as an assault type rifle. Was made for military use, just like m4, ak, garand, m1 carbine, etc.
The action in the SKS and AK are very different. The AK is not an evolution of the SKS. The fire the same round, but then a lot of guns do. The fact that TAG sates one is a variant of the other is also inaccurate.
SKS lover, you said, “An sks is definitely classified as an assault type rifle. Was made for military use, just like m4, ak, garand, m1 carbine, etc.” Wrong, completely wrong! You’re echoing the liberal media NY Times and Diane Feinstein’s definition! I never thought I’d see the day when I had to educate POTG on the correct definition of assault rifle , but here goes…
It should go without saying, but not all military rifles are assault rifles, not a by a long shot (pardon the pun). The M1 Garand was a service rifle, not an assault rifle. The M-14 was a battle rifle, not an assault rifle. The M1 carbine was a pistol-caliber carbine, not a rifle. The AR-15 is not an assault rifle because it’s not selective fire. The 1863 Springfield was a rifle musket (yes, that’s the correct term, “rifle musket”) not an assault rifle.
The first assault rifle worldwide was the German Sturmgewehr 44 or StG 44, which Hitler named a “Sturmgewehr” (which translates to “storm rifle” or “assault rifle”). The first American assault rifle was the M-16, which I used in the Army.
By definition, “An assault rifle is a selective-fire rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine.” The M14 was not an assault rifle, it was a battle rifle, because it didn’t use an intermediate cartridge; it used a full-power 7.62 x 51 NATO cartridge. The M1 Garand was NOT an assault rifle for THREE reasons: 1) it was only semiautomatic, not selective-fire, and 2) it didn’t use an intermediate cartridge; it used a high-powered .30-06 Springfield cartridge, and 3) It didn’t have a detachable magazine!
To quote Wikipedia’s entry for assault rifle:
“Select-fire M2 Carbines are not assault rifles; their effective range is only 200 yards.[17]”
“Select-fire rifles such as the FN FAL battle rifle are not assault rifles; they fire full-powered rifle cartridges.”
“Semi-automatic-only rifles like variants of the Colt AR-15 are not assault rifles; they do not have select-fire capabilities.”
“Semi-auto rifles with fixed magazines like the SKS are not assault rifles; they do not have detachable box magazines and are not capable of automatic fire.”
I agree would agree with SKS lover but I have to go shoot squirrels with my assualt rifle 10/22 and my hand me down budget assualt pistol revolver in super duper 38 special (it’s a Rossi).
An SKS IS NOT an Assault Weapon. It is classified by the BATF as a Curio&Relic.I know because I had an FFL from 2007-2010. I didn’t renew as I got tired of all the paper work. I packed up all forms,rules & regulations & sent them back to the BATF insured & signed delivery.I have a Russian SKS with the blade bayonet made at the Tula Factory. It is a very accurate firearm. You are correct it was a military weapon before the AK. They were also used in Vietnam.Along with Mosin-Nagants & AK47’s.
Still yet, it’s highly inaccurate, misleading, and should probably have been left out of this report.
Also, what’s with all the Yugoslavian SKS reportedly (apparently only here though) roaming the country. I’ve seen hundreds of Russian SKSs, thousands of Chinese, and no more Yugo or Bulgarian SKSs than I could carry away bodily in a single trip. Unless there is something very odd about the supply of SKS rifles in my area over the last 25 or so years, Chinese rifles make up the vast majority, followed by Russian, and all other sources are for negliable numbers of rifles.
Further, my 30 seconds of Google-foo on the subject suggest that
My apologies for the seoerat
Sorry, something is glitching…
As I was saying, a bit of googling suggests import numbers for these rifles from China outpace all others combined. Can someone point me to anything that indicates Yugoslavia is the primary supply of SKS rifles in the US?
Chinese SKS make up the vast majority of SKS in the country. Anybody with eyes and a brain would come to the same conclusion
Derringer– I carried an M-14 E-2 for a few years. It was a select-fire rifle utilizing the 7.62×51 cartridge. I think it qualifies as an ‘assault rifle’ before the M-16 was issued.
It does NOT qualify because 7.62×51 is not an intermediate round.
The M1 Garand and the M14 are called Main Battle Rifles. The ballistics of the full power .30/06 [M2 Ball ammunition 7.62×63 mm] and the 7.62×51 NATO [Winchester .308] were designed for open warfare on the European barrle fields of WWI and WWII.
The United States issued the M1 Carbine early during WWII to replace the handgun for support troops such as truck drivers and machinegun crews. But it was desired by many troops during the house to house warfare in French and German villages. It uses a low power 30 caliber 100-110 grain round nose JMJ bullet at a low velocity. The M2 Carbine was developed toward the end of WWII. It wasn’t called an assault rifle, but it and the German 1944 issue were the first rifles to follow the pattern. The Germans gave their warfare terms such as Sturmgewehr which if my German is close means storm war. They called their method of war Blitzkrieg meaning lighten war.
Military small arms have been designed for the past 60 years to wound more than they kill because a wounded soldier needs care. A dead soldier is just left there until a burial detail can pick up the body.
Sporting ammo is designed to kill the animal as quickly as possible but military ammo is designed to Geneva standards, to be less lethal.
The only difference between a Modern Battle Rifle and an Assault Rifle was meant to be that the assault rifle used the smallest ammo that would reliably take down a man sized target when a professional made a “called” shot.
. . While set to burst-fire during a “hasty” snapshot would place enough lead on target that it would still take down said target.
A battle rifle uses larger ammo.
The SKS piston gas system are very similar and they were designed in Russia to use the same 7.62×39 mm ammunition. In all other respects they are very dissimilar.
The 7.62×39 is a 30 caliber cartridge that is about 10-15% lower in power than the .30/30 Winchester deer rifle cartridge. Apparently the left wing nit case from Illinois did buy some sporting ammunition rather than use full metal jacket military ammo which is why one bullet did so much damage to Congressman Stephen Joseph Scalise. A military bullet would not fragment but would have most likely punched holes in the pelvis and not caused all the internal injuries.
The left wing Bernie supporter owned two guns and was not skilled at all in the use of firearms, otherwise he would probably have killed everybody on the playing field and also killed both security guards.
I doubt if he was a “gun person” meaning he was not raised with firearms as a hunter, target shooter and lilely never served in the military.
I haven’t heard any claim that he was a member of the NRA. I doubt that he was.
Just to correct you on that using similar logic to this article the M14 is a later variant of the M1 Garland not an m16 but then again I see it all the time dumb kids just of age to buy a rifle buy something high speed thinking it’s cool. Yeah it looks scary but you listen to any story of the Government variant being used it is a rifle which at it’s creation can be compared to a BB gun. A man doesn’t need to unload half a 30 round magazine in to some savage and then have him walk off in that instance the M14 would be better appreciated because it doesn’t just put little holes with some minimally traumatic projectile fragments, just liquification of the organs. Aside from that you just proved his point of gun muggles freaking out without any knowledge of guns. Look at the cartridge the campaign for soviets to fund a new rifle and year of release and maybe you won’t appear to be so ignorant.
The only truly “verified” news is there is one less Leftist Stateside.
The shooter used a SKS assault type automatic weapon of mass destruction, and after several minutes got perforated and later “succumbed to his injuries”, saving tax payers untold amounts of legal and incarceration expenses. Anyone Feeling the Bern?
On other news, I’m told the Portland MAX stabber was also a right-wing extremist Bernie supporter… just Progressivism working as expected…
left-wing extremist
Bernie is extreme Left Wing. Unlike obama and hillary he at least admits to being a socialist and he accepted the endorsement of the American Communist Party [as I recall] years ago.
If the SKS was dressed in some plastic furniture with detachable duck bill mags it would be considered an “assault rifle.” That goes to the absurdity of “assault rifle” distinctions. But we haven’t seen a picture of what was actually used.
Assault Rifle has a very fixed definition; any of various intermediate-range, magazine-fed military rifles (such as the AK-47) that can be set for automatic or semiautomatic fire. Due to politics, that definition has changes so much it is not even funny. At lease with the term “Assault Weapon” we new we were dealing with a political definition that could change at any time.
In the nomenclature of the ban states (e.d., California, NY, NJ I presume, Maryland and Mass, it would be an “assault weapon” (not an assault rifle), a creature that has a specific statutory definition that is more focused on “features” than operation. California long ago banned fully automatic weapons, so the current definition starts with “semi-automatic centerfire rifle…” (and then goes on to add shotguns and pistols as well). Bans are thereafter based on particular features, such as detachable magazines, magazine capacity, collapsible stocks, forward hand grips, pistol grips, thumb hole stocks, etc.
The Ruger Mini-14 is a good example of the confusion over what an “assault rife” is. There is a “ranch” version with a classic wood stock. However for some dollars more you can get a plastic stock with a pistol grip and suddenly it’s an ” assault rifle.”
He could have used a Ruger 10/22 and they would have called it a high-powered .9mm automatic assault weapon.
LOL aloud @ “.9mm”.
You’re a funny guy, Fella. 😉
One reporter (Doug McElway, Fox News) described the rifle as a “high powered assault rifle” that shot “.762mm bullets that experts say can bring down an elephant.” That would be an itty-bitty bullet at .762mm! As for an elephant, well, that is so much barnyard folderol…
Most elephants are killed by this round by poachers in Africa. They use surplus guerilla weapons supplied by wealthy Europeans resident in Switzerland and Spain. AK47s are ubiquitous in Africa.
In Africa, typically, [it varies from country to country] the minimum caliber to legally hunt elephant is the .375 H&H Magnum Often the cartridge of choice by professional hunters and guides is the .458 Winchester Magnum. These magnum rifles fire bullets from 300 to 600 grains at velocities 2200 to 2500 feet per second. The energy is 3 to 4 TONS.
The AK47 uses the 30 Russian cartridge which can get a 125 grain bullet up to about 2400 fps. One ounce is 437.5 grains.
The Russians replaced the AK47 with the AK 74 which fires a cartridge very similar to the 5.56×45 mm NATO [5.56 mm bullet diameter and a case length of 45 mm, .22×1-3/4 inch. Russian 5.45×39 which is really a .22 caliber bore in the barrel.
The best estimates are that the total production of AK47s is between 50-100 million rifles made in Russian, China, Hungry, Turkey, Yugoslavia, and even in the USA recently.
I caught the same “assault weapon” moniker in the news. So the SKS pre-dates the AK-47 by a couple years, and the German Sturmgewehr pre-dates the SKS by a couple years. Assault Rifle is the translation of Sturmgewehr.
To my inexperienced eye, the SKS seems like it is part way along the transformation from the combat rifle (e.g. M1 Garand) to the German Sturmgewehrs. But closer to the M1, especially with the stripper clip.
I always thought they were looking for something like the Gewehr 41 or 43 but in a less potent cartridge.
The WWI US Rifle 1903, the Mauser bolt action and other rifles use a stripper clip to hold the ammo by the rim, in a column that can be rapidly loaded by forcing the cartridges into the magazine.
The M1 Garand uses an en bloc clip that hold 8 rounds and is loaded into the rifle. The en bloc clip remains in te rifle until the last shot is fired and is then ejected by a spring and the bolt is locked back, ready to accept another en bloc clip.
If you watch a WWII or Korean War movie you will hear a metallic twang when the clip is ejected.
The M1 Garand uses a long stroke gas piston operating rod located under the barrel.
The AL47/AK 74 and the SKS use a short stroke gas piston located above the barrel.
The M14 uses a short stroke piston to strike an operating rod located under the barrel and along side to the right side of the rifle. The M1 Garand and M14 have a very similar design. The M14 uses a steel box magazine that holds 20 rounds. It was the rifle issued to US troops in the period 1963 to 1968 [might vary a little].
The Ruger Mini 14 and Ranch rifles use a short stroke gas piston that moves about 1/2 inch and strikes the operating rod hard enough to make it move about 3 inches, cycling the bolt to reload.
Repeat something often enough and it will become the truth for the small minded.
If the shooter (whose name I shall not mention) used an SKS with a detachable magazine, then there is at least one state which classifies it as an “Assault Rifle”, that being “The Free State” of Maryland as that type of SKS is proscribed in the “Gun Safety Act of 2013”. You can look it up if you wish. http://mdsp.maryland.gov/Organization/Pages/CriminalInvestigationBureau/LicensingDivision/Firearms/FirearmSearch.aspx
California considers the SKS an assault rifle because it has a bayonet even though it is old enough to be a curio if you buy a 50’s vintage Russian or Yugo. Removing the bayonet leaves the bayonet lug which still makes it illegal and it is no longer in original condition, so it cannot be a curio. Another words, SKS are assault weapons and there is nothing you can do to make them CA Compliant
Just grind off bayo lug.
With or without the bayonet it is still a C&R, provided it is over 50 years old. The bayonet is an accessory. The rifle is what is C&R.
I have FFL03, C&R.
My SKS is the same age as me, born in 1957 in China. Bought unfired in cosmoline. No bayonet, only 5 round box magazine, as required in NZ. Quite cheap by our standards, $NZ499.00. Available on a standard firearms license.
California uses the term assault weapon, not assault rifle. Assault Weapon is a political definition that can mean anything.
That’s simply not true – CA has lots of stupid to go around, but that’s not good information. The SKS D/Paratrooper with the factory detachable mag OR an aftermarket detachable mag is banned, and not as an “assault weapon” – it’s by type (SKS) and feature (detachable magazine). The Yugo M59/66 and M59/66A1 are banned as destructive devices due to the grenade launcher capable flash hider.
Regular M59’s and SKS’s are perfectly legal with or without the attached bayonets, blade or spike.
FOR THE TIME BEING.
Oh, more than that. His home county also bans the sks with detachable mag. How did he ever own this…unless without detachable mag…you know the answer.
http://www.suffredin.org/legislativelibrary/Legislation.asp?LegislationID=123&Library=cook
Help I’m being attacked by an assault spoon clutching a Democrat.
Help, we’re being assaulted by Fake News abuse of freedom of the press, let’s pass a Press Control Act of 2017, with waiting periods, Tax Stamps, cavity searches, NICS checks, Doctor questions about how much fake news has been spread. . .
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
Agreed but in this case it such an oft-repeated mistake that to those uninitiated and unfamiliar with firearms will take it as Gospel. When the term “assault rifle” comes up, we have to interrupt to stand somewhat a chance of informing people of the misnomer.
An assault weapon is any weapon used in an assault according to Law Enforcement. According to California AG, SKS is an Assault Rifle
The end goal is to label all semi auto rifles and shotguns assault rifles/shotguns then ban them all.
They want semi auto guns banned.
Then they come after your breach lock, then they come after your flint lock, then they put you into re-education if they first don’t put you into a coma.
Hmm, might have to go find/purchase an SKS/variant before Maryland bans them.
It’s not just guns, although with guns it’s a combination of agenda AND ignorance. For whatever area of life you happen to be more have some familiarity, you’ll notice all sorts of inaccuracies when being reported by the mainstream media.
That’s right.
The mainstream media are jerks of all trades… And experts at none.
But wait… Didn’t I mean “jacks of all trades”?
Nope. /;-)
“Media Continue to Claim Baseball Shooter Used an ‘Assault Weapon’”
Lying libtard “main stream” media is lying. Duh!
An “autocutie” rote reading out a script at news time, does not equate to the USA government pontificating on any subject. It’s just a news editor using the Democratic playbook of how to twist events for political purposes. Otherwise known as left wing propaganda. Fox News is right wing propaganda. Split the difference, listen to CNN one day, and Fox the other. Just like a Heinlein character believed in God one day, and not every other day, to prevent any hasty mistakes. But that is schizophrenic behavior, and unbecoming to an adult. Don’t watch the News, and you won’t go far wrong. The only source of truth is God’s Word, not some dimwit in a newsroom.
At this point the fact that an SKS was used seems pretty solid. We don’t know the make or model yet. Could be a common Romanian or Chicom one, could have been TAPCO’ed out to hell and back or stock.
Something this high profile and we don’t have pictures of the actual weapon used strike me as rather odd. Makes me think it’s a bone stock Russian or Chinese gun with a laminated stock that doesn’t look “scary” enough to fit the MSM narrative. (absence of evidence is not evidence however)
Early reports were that the shooter offed himself with a handgun after the cops shot him, current reports say that he succumbed to his wounds after being shot, again, we probably won’t have the actual info until we get a copy of the coroner’s report.
7.62.39 SKS sounds like I am in the library circa 1990 and I’m researching, remember THAT, and the Dewey Decimal system cataloging is pointing me to the firearms section.
Brings back memories of a simpler time, a time of even worse blindness by the masses, thankfully many are, ahem, “woke AF” these days; to use the parlance of the streets. ahhaah The present was ridiculed as an impossibility that only fringe “gun nuts” prepped for, but those times they are today. May you live in interesting times is not a complement, but a curse.
A love a good Sks. Used to make a perfect truck gun. And if you accidentally ran over it with your truck – who cares – no big loss. Now they are so expensive – even more so than an AR.
They are darn expensive these days. I paid like $212 for one all of 10 or 11 years back and it was (and still is) in great condition.
Now Cabela’s sells ones that are beat to hell and back for $650.
Back in the 1980’s, ( had an FFL and store front.)
We bought Chinese SKS’s wholesale, 10 rifles for something like $499.00!!!
So the one I bought back then was marked up 400% ????
I gave it to my brother as back-up to a Valmet M62W.
Never fired after purchase and still in the box.
The bayonet was extended a couple of times to show the kids.
Well, the oldest I could have been at the latest point in the 1980’s was six years old, so I guess I missed out of that just based on age.
Damn you inflation!
We should roundly condemn them for calling an SKS an M4.
But I’d call an SKS an Assault Weapon. No, it ain’t select fire, and it ain’t magazine fed. But it was designed at the start of the era where massed small-arms fire was a viable way to gain fire superiority. Belt feds were on their way out as the only way to lay down massive fire, and this is one of the first mass issued intermediate, assault rifle cartridge weapons. It’s an early assault rifle, I’d argue. Outdated, yes. Incapable of being used to assault, using modern tactics? Not quite. Still a very deadly weapon. And for some applications arguably better than the AK.
The SKS was obsolete before it was even issued.
Right on!
It was field tested by the Russians against the Germans in WWII!!! It introduced 7.62x39mm in 1943. The cartridge was standardized in 1949.
It saw combat on the Belorussian Front in late 1944 – 1945, and was very popular with the troops. In some documentaries, you can spot Red Army troops carrying them in the Battle of Berlin. It remained a popular parade weapon long after the AK47 was mainstream.
Assault Rifle has a very fixed definition; any of various intermediate-range, magazine-fed military rifles (such as the AK-47) that can be set for automatic or semiautomatic fire. Due to politics, that definition has changed. With the term “Assault Weapon” we knew we were dealing with a political definition that could change at any time.
I also like how a M1 is not a Assault Rifle, but if I was being shot at, would like the shooter to have a SKS over a M1 any day of the week..
Too true!
Everyone needs to understand:
“Assault rifle” is a *technical* term. It has a definition based on actual capabilities and features. The definition – in spite of abuse in popular media – has remained remarkably constant since it was first developed well over 50 years ago.
“Assault weapon” is a *political* term. Its meaning depends on where you are – and what timeframe you’re talking about. What an “assault weapon” is in California today is different from what an “assault weapon” was in Maryland 10 years ago (and it’s changed quite a bit here in Maryland since then).
The meanings of words are important davidb. ‘Assault Rifle’ specifically describes a weapon that, among other things, has the capability to fire in both semi and fully automatic modes, something the SKS can’t do.. I realize there has been significant creep to the meaning of this term, and that by some definitions the term applies to the SKS. However, one could redefine ‘dog’ to mean any pet with fur and four legs, and by that definition, a cat is a dog.
Also, can we call the mainstream media on using the term “high power” as other than a hysteria builder?
The Washington Post insists on maintaining that the Arlington shooter used a “high power” rifle, even though that same article didn’t identify the rifle. They at least noted it was a “7.62” rifle (C’mon – several common cartridges used 7.62 as part of their nomenclature. You can do better than that).
Of course, we all know that 7.62×39 is an intermediate power cartridge. Any time I see a reporter using the “high power” term for rifles using 7.62×39 or 5.56×45 cartridges, I automatically know:
A. They don’t really know what they’re talking about
B. They’re adding adjectives to build hysteria – which means this isn’t reporting, it’s storytelling with an agenda
But 5.56 and 7.62 sound so much scarier that .30-06
Technically speaking, anything that’s not a rimfire or a non-magnum pistol caliber is a “high-powered” cartridge, but they just emphasize it to scare stupid normies.
That isn’t how rifle cartridges are categorized.
For example, the accepted definition of “assault rifle” includes three important parts:
“…a selective-fire rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine.” (Wiki)
Recall that, at the time assault rifles were being developed, the idea of sending a soldier into battle with a *less* powerful cartridge was new – and very controversial. But the advantages a moving away from a full power cartridge (i.e., .308, .30-06, .303 Brit, 7.62x54R) to an intermediate power cartridge (7.92×33mm Kurz being the first of the breed) with a full-auto capability and an easily-changed magazine became evident.
Keep in mind that this means the phrase “high power assault rifle” is, by definition, an oxymoron: The whole point of an assault rifle was the portability advantages of a cartridge that *wasn’t* full power – but powerful enough for the ranges then being seen in typical battle that a full auto capability made a big difference.
Read more on this topic here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermediate_cartridge
The whole point of an assault rifle is to give grunts something better than a submachine gun that can lay down suppression fire. When you “assault” another position, if you can keep them from shooting you when you are in the open, you have a better chance of living. That is why full auto is pointless for anything other than group tactics.
“B. They’re adding adjectives to build hysteria – which means this isn’t reporting, it’s storytelling with an agenda”
Isn’t that the whole point?
Yes. But everyone needs to understand that’s what they’re doing.
I recently read that the North American record large grizzly was dropped by a single shot of a 22 Long rim-fire from a single-shot rifle. Admittedly, the shooter was both a renowned markswoman and an anatomist. (Also, admittedly, death might have been attributable to one of the several follow-up shots.) Now, let’s admit that a Cricket charged with a 22 Long is “high powered” by any practical definition.
Just so Phil L.: I’m unsure where the bar to ‘high powered’ ought to be for a rifle, but certainly anything already designated as ‘intermediate power’ must surely fall below this bar.
If the press knew anything about guns, I’d say they meant high powered as compared to pistol cartridges (i.e. weapon was not a pistol caliber carbine). However, since it appears that most of the MSM know virtually nothing about firearms or ammunition, this must be either a scare tactic, or hyperbole in story telling. Either way it’s neither accurate nor unbiased reporting, and given the politicised nature of guns in the US, it’s an unforgivable falsification.
The right scoop is a joke of a website. They went full anti trump retard during the election. Banning anyone who dared push back even a little.
Funny how it was supposed to be an M4. It’s like the .9mm (sic) the people who take the MSM seriousely don’t care.
I wouldn’t care either, I mean, the condition of the victims and whether the perp or perps have been neutralized are key. The rest is interesting, but I can get it in a day or two. But then we’re going to hear that AR’s and 9’s are the weapons of choice for terrorists… more fuel to the myth.
I’m taking my 1950 Tula SKS to the range today. I bought it about two weeks ago. I’ve been wanting a Russian made SKS for a while and finally found it. I didn’t know when I bought it, that is was a fully-semi automatic assault weapon! I am very scared now!
It’s not bolt-action or break-barrel. Therefore it’s an assault rifle to them.
Let them see a Lee Enfield mad Minute, and bolt actions will be on that list too.
And if they ever manage to “get rid of” Assault Weapons.. the bolt action will suddenly become a Sniper Style rifle. +++X;B=3~<
” . . . a passing understanding of firearms might be more than we should expect from the oh-so-well-educated, sophisticated, effete class of people who run that rag.”
That’s exactly what they are, Nick. And I hold them in utter contempt because of it. When trying to carry on a constructive conversation when these kind of people, I have so often encountered a solid wall of stubborn ignorance that I have now given up even trying to give them even a modicum of respect.
How will the left spin the following facts?:
The baseball park shooter used a rifle (“assault” or whatever they want to call it) from which he fired “more than 50 rounds”. The only person killed was the shooter himself.
The Portland Bernie Sanders admirer attacked two people and KILLED them both. With a knife. He was taken into custody without a scratch.
Now, analyze that from the point of view of weapon used and legislative action to be considered by our “educated and unbiased” elective officials.
I imagine the troops in WWI figured the Mauser, Springfield, and Enfield were “assault-style” rifles.
There were most certainly “battle”rifles.
Semantics – In reality it doesn’t matter.
I ought to able to own an M-14 just like I own a Mauser K-98.
Without hoops and stupid taxes.
Actually an Assault Rifle is a subset of the the modern Battle Rifles, it was specificly designed to use the smallest possible ammo as professional shot could use to reliably take down a man sized target with a called shot. And to still be able to do the same with a “hasty” snapshot set on burst-fire.
. . The difference between the 5.56 and the .223 was that some fool staff officer said the .223 was designed to wound the enemy. The uproar about this caused them to create the 5.56, they added weight to the slug and upgraded the power of the powder used and stated that the purpose of the ammo was to make patrol supply easier.
Since much more could be carried.
While informing their staff to say nothing about this wounding £¥®¥€|.
“For a group of outlets that call themselves impartial purveyors of true and accurate reporting they sure do a terrible job.” Full stop.
Hypocrites, liars, left-wing propagandists, and emotive morons. That’s what they are.
Some days I think we’d be better off if the whole journalistic establishment was hauled off and shot en masse — but then I remember that I don’t really believe in mass murder, and that if it can be done to them, it can be done to me. The First Amendment protects them just as it protects me (even if they prove themselves unworthy every time they open their mouths). And the Second Amendment helps me make sure they don’t get any squirrely ideas about what their fellow travelers can do to the rest of us.
The thing is Ing, and while I’m with you on the 1st Amendment and being anti mass murder, there is a point at which much of the 4th estate has become a 5th column, and there is a point where speech becomes sedition. The former is unfortunate, in that it makes much of the media the enemy of a free people. The latter is even more unfortunate, for them, since it makes them an enemy of the state.
Where these limes will be drawn I don’t know, but I hope it’s sooner than later.
Use of the label creates the idea in people’s minds that since all these attacks used an “assault weapon” banning them will do something to stop them from happening.
We should counter that with something much simpler than trying to clarify the confusion and misdirection of the mainstream media. (People’s eyes will glaze over if you start trying to explain calibers, “intermediate cartridges”, and semi-auto versus full auto function.)
Just explain to people that an attacker can accomplish the same results with lever-action rifles or a pair of 1911 pistols designed 100 years ago … or a pair of Magnum revolvers or a pump-action shotgun designed in the 1930s. This forces people to start to realize that it is deranged people about which we have to concern ourselves, not their weapon platform.
No, they still won’t see the connection. All that will do is get them wanting to ban ALL firearms.
But, Y’all are as bad as the anti’s and fake news. Y’all are talking about “assault rifles” like there really is such a thing.
Assault is an action, not an inanimate object like a rifle. By definition, there is no such thing as an assault rifle.
“When I use a word,” the lying mainstream media scum said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”
— With apologies to Lewis Carol
Well, Tweedle dee dee!
On the day of the shooting, Lester Holt of NBC News reported that the shooter used an “assault rifle” and an “assault pistol”.
Confirmed and proud as heck that my 20YO daughter burst out in laughter when she heard it.
Fox News just reported that the 7.62 rifle “could easily take down an elephant “. I swear to God.
Worse than that, he called a “.762”. Where the hell do these dipsticks get their information?
That actually happens. Look up poachers in Africa.
This is true, and the .22lr has likely taken more north American whitetail deer than any other. Ambush is ambush, and needs not much firepower when properly set.
Nick, that nails it on the head.
Its easy to explain the “media” misleading about the type of rifle. They are more than willing to use this incident to move the definition of “assault rifle” to include ALL semi-automatic rifles. They want to indoctrinate the public into thinking all the Mini14’s, M-1a’s, M-14’s SKS’s and similar non-pistol grip rifles are just the same as their “evil assault rifles” so they can have them banned also.
The truth is the pistol grip is cosmetic (the configuration of some rifles make it a necessity). A fully automatic mini 14 would be a assault rifle just as much as a m16.
Let me get this straight, OP: you think that any of that bullshit about designation accuracy makes a f’g bit of difference to the media???? and its readership???? your post is an utter waste of energy
Its easy to explain the “media” misleading about the type of rifle. They are more than willing to use this incident to move the definition of “assault rifle” to include ALL semi-automatic rifles. They want to indoctrinate the public into thinking all the Mini14’s, M-1a’s, M-14’s SKS’s and similar non-pistol grip rifles are just the same as their “evil assault rifles” so they can have them banned also.
Tuna dumpsters, all of them, like week old tuna, in august
As a gun owner and writer this confirms what I have known for awhile: Adjectives screw you up. If the media had simply stated “rifle” it/they would be right. However, they got to get all fancy with stuff they know little about and then comes the screw up.
Dear media give up all your terms (Glock, assault, AR, M4, .9mm) . You only need to know “rifle”, “shotgun”, “handgun”.
NPR used the term 7.62 caliber. Today’s NYT had an editorial by an ostensible ER doctor claiming the mythical destructive power of the assault weapon’s bullet. This one was so bad that I could barely get through it. As if the Congressman would have been better off taking a hit from a .30-30 with the same weight bullet because it’s only a deer rifle specifically designed for killing an animal of similar size to a person. It is frightening when complete idiots are put up as experts by the media and the completely brainwashed audience laps it up.
it has been said that the gun has been traced way back to the ‘fast and furious’ program any real info on that?
I swear. If I could only have one Father’s Day wish, it would be one of the following two scenarios:
1) That Our 2nd Amendment would be as widely and universally accepted by All 50 States as is what the Activist Judges have forced upon us to tolerate under our 1st Amendment. Rendering the theft of our Freedoms, Liberties and God given rights to Keep and Bear Arms as intolerable as I consider the burning of our Flag to be. The Rule of Law and our Constitutional Protections from the Government have been eviscerated since the Clinton Administration and We The People are now feeling the Slavery of Governmental Jack Boots on the throats of our fellow American Citizens in the un-Godly States of Kalifornia, New York, Washington and Illinois, etc…all the States of our “Union” who have Nullified the Constitutional Protections from Governmental Overreach as enumerated in Our Bill of Rights. These Are Illegal Acts of Treason Committed Against The American Citizens.
“Shall Not Be Infringed.” is Not hard to understand however, by stealing our language and twisting it to their own bizarre definitions, the Lunatic Marxist Left has made being Constitutionally Correct into being labeled as an “Extremist” and “Unstable”!
That “wish” of mine will never come to pass, too many American Citizens choose the Slavery of Governmental Handouts and refuse to take Personal Responsibility for themselves and their actions.
Therefore, I have a secondary Father’s Day wish that does have hope to offer.
Get Involved. Get Involved in your State Legislature and Go to Testify before your State Legislature when Laws, either for our Freedoms or against come up for public hearings as I did personally in Austin Texas on March 20, 2017. This Resulted in our LTC Fee becoming among the lowest in the Nation at $40.00 . If we do not stand up and be counted for our own sake, do you really believe that your Politicians will stand up for you?
Don’t let the Rule of Law in Our beloved Republic be trodden under the feet of Corrupt Activist Judges like the 9th and 4th Circuit. Don’t let it get to that place. Refuse to Re-elect and Primary Out the Politicians who have Nullified Your Rights.
For our Freedom Loving Brothers and Sisters across this beautiful Nation in States like California and New York hear my plea. I know you’re in it deeply, I read your letters. For the sake of yourselves and your posterity, leave those High Tax, Zero Freedom Places. Move yourselves out, take your future and that of your Children to the Free States of America. Arizona, Texas, Georgia, S.Carolina, etc… Save Yourselves and Help Save Us All From Them!
May you all be well, be safe and may God bless you all and His hand of providence always be upon you and your families.
Sincerely and Always Respectfully Yours,
…~Benny
Dr. Benjamin Bennett Th.D
Dr. B, I second your opinion, except I think you should be active at the local level, that way you don’t let anti-freedom activists get to the state level or the national level.
A couple of days ago, on the Fox News Channel, they said it was a .762 caliber that could “easily take down an elephant”…. ROFL
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