By Russ Bynum and Ben Nadler, AP
Georgia authorities charged a father and son with murder and put them in jail in the February shooting death of a man they had pursued in a truck after spotting him running in their neighborhood.
The charges Thursday came more than two months after Ahmaud Arbery, 25, was killed on a residential street just outside the port city of Brunswick. National outrage over the case swelled this week after cellphone video that appeared to show the shooting was released.
Those close to Arbery celebrated the news but also expressed frustration at the long wait.
“This should have occurred the day it happened,” said Akeem Baker, one of Arbery’s close friends in Brunswick. “There’s no way without the video this would have occurred. I’m just glad the light’s shining very bright on this situation.”
Gregory McMichael, 64, previously told police that he and his son chased after Arbery because they suspected him of being a burglar. Arbery’s mother, Wanda Cooper Jones, has said she thinks her son, a former football player, was just jogging in the Satilla Shores neighborhood before he was killed on a Sunday afternoon.
Benjamin Crump, an attorney for the slain man’s father, Marcus Arbery, said it’s outrageous it took so long for arrests to be made.
“This is the first step to justice,” Crump said in a statement. “This murderous father and son duo took the law into their own hands. It’s a travesty of justice that they enjoyed their freedom for 74 days after taking the life of a young black man who was simply jogging.”
The GBI announced the arrests the day after it began its own investigation at the request of an outside prosecutor. The agency said Gregory McMichael and his 34-year-old son, Travis McMichael, had both been jailed on charges of murder and aggravated assault.
The GBI news release said the McMichaels “confronted Arbery with two firearms. During the encounter, Travis McMichael shot and killed Arbery.” No other details were immediately released.
It was not immediately known whether either of the McMichaels had an attorney who could comment.
Georgia Bureau of Investigation director Vic Reynolds said in a Facebook post that his agency could only get involved at the request of local authorities, and that didn’t happen until this week.
“I realize that emotions are running high in this community, and they’re running high throughout this state. And the last thing anyone wants to do is extend us any patience. But I also realize that this investigation must be done correctly, and therefore I must ask for a little of your patience,” Reynolds said.
Gregory McMichael served as an investigator for Glynn County District Attorney Jackie Johnson before retiring last year. The connection caused Johnson to recuse herself from the case.
At a news conference in Atlanta before the arrests were announced Thursday, Republican Gov. Brian Kemp told reporters he was confident state investigators would “find the truth.”
“Earlier this week, I watched the video depicting Mr. Arbery’s last moments alive,” Kemp said. “I can tell you it’s absolutely horrific, and Georgians deserve answers.”
Gregory McMichael told police he suspected the runner was the same man filmed by a security camera committing a break-in. He and his grown son, Travis McMichael, grabbed guns and began a pursuit in a pickup truck.
The video shows a black man running at a jogging pace. The truck is stopped in the road ahead of him, with one of the white men standing in the pickup’s bed and the other beside the open driver’s side door.
The runner attempts to pass the pickup on the passenger side, moving just beyond the truck, briefly outside the camera’s view. A gunshot sounds, and the video shows the runner grappling with a man over what appears to be a shotgun or rifle. A second shot can be heard, and the runner can be seen punching the man. A third shot is fired at point-blank range. The runner staggers a few feet and falls face down.
Brunswick defense attorney Alan Tucker identified himself Thursday as the person who shared the video with the radio station. He did not say how he obtained it. In a statement, Tucker said he wasn’t representing anyone involved. He said he shared the video “because my community was being ripped apart by erroneous accusations and assumptions.”
Tucker did not immediately respond to a phone message or an email.
The outcry over the killing reached the White House, where President Donald Trump offered condolences Thursday to Arbery’s family.
“It’s a very sad thing,” Trump said in the Oval Office, “but I will be given a full report this evening.”
Presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden called Arbery’s death a “murder.” During an online roundtable Thursday, Biden said the video shows Arbery “lynched before our very eyes.”
The outside prosecutor now overseeing the case, Tom Durden, had said Monday that he wanted a grand jury to decide whether charges are warranted. Georgia courts are still largely closed because of the coronavirus.
Let’s try to wait for more info before we form solid conclusions. There’s all sorts of things that could be going on here. I know, it’s the comment section…
I agree but also, watching the video, there does not appear to be any reason to have shot the man. Even if he did commit the burglary, he was not inside the house committing the crime when they shot him.
Irrelevant under Georgia law. They had video of him committing the burglary, they attempted to lawfully detain him. He attacked them. End of story.
Exactly right, they committed murder. End of story.
There appears to be somebody of tape doing something, maybe burglary, maybe not. There is zero evidence it was Mr. Arbery at this time. I have not seen any tape showing the alleged burglary, have you? If so, please provide that link.
What they have is somebody doing something that appears nefarious. Under GA law you cannot citizen arrest someone without directly seeing the event or have direct knowledge that the person did something. they had neither. They only assumed it he was the perpetrator.
You missed the part where they were far from their property on a public street. They were in no danger from him and were instead trying to play police officer.
If you would do the same thing I suggest you discuss it with an attorney who will no doubt advise you to call police and take pictures not shoot people or try to apprehend yourself.
Self defense. Not guilty.
Grabbing the barrel of a shotgun is incredibly stupid!.
Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
That being said; not my people not my problem. I would not have gone looking unless they had done great bodily injury to family members or killed a family member.
Had Arbery been carrying, he’d have been justified to use it to defend himself. No reasonable, rational human being suspects a man – in jogging clothes in broad daylight – of being a fleeing burglar. I mean, I don’t know if there is a mental disability concern with the McMichaels, but otherwise, not a plausible suspicion in the least.
This Should Have Been a Defensive Gun Use.
It should have been a defensive gun use. If two dudes chased me around in their vehicle, and one got out and threatened me with a shotgun, I’d shoot to stop the threat, exactly as I’ve been trained to do. In every sense of the law, what is on that video is an imminent, deadly threat. In Texas at least, no prosecutor who wanted to keep their job would consider pressing charges against me. If the shotgun toting vigilante died as a result of me stopping the threat, then the driver should also be charged with manslaughter as an accessory to his death.
Go read the statute guys… slowly.
“A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.”
Pretty sure residential burglary is a felony in Georgia…
Unless you’re telling me that a pair of dudes picked a random black guy to chase and couldn’t reasonably ID him from a surveillance video… just because the dudes in question happen to be white. That seems rather racist.
The only reason this is even in the news is that the blacktivists want to lynch them some whiteys and need another paycheck from the outrage mob.
The only question here is if the father and son were acting in good faith and within the law. So far, evidence would indicate that they were.
Well – they had to leave their property, and pursue him down the street, and apparently provoke him into an attack, to justify shooting him.
That’s the problem I had with the douchebag, Zimmerman. He didn’t have the balls to address the “suspect” under the streetlights, as the youngster walked past his car. Instead, he stalked the young man into the darkness between the houses.
When you pick up a weapon, and chase down your suspect, you no longer get to claim “self defense”, or “stand your ground”, or any of the other magical catch-phrases.
IF, and ONLY IF, they caught their “suspect” in the act, might they have a justifiable killing. Believing that maybe the recognize someone with dark skin several days later doesn’t cut it. Murder.
Serge, I can’t remember if English isn’t your first language or not, but that’s not what “in his presence or within his immediate knowledge” means. He was not a “fleeing felon”. What they did was neither the letter or spirit of the law.
It has nothing to do with race.
“If the offense is a felony”
Just checked, residential burglary is, in fact, a felony in Georgia.
“a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.”
Pretty sure seeing someone who matches what you saw on video constitutes a “reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.”
Was it smart? No. Is it going to cost them? Yes. Was it illegal? No.
So if a couple yahoos pulled over and told you they were “detaining” you at gunpoint because they thought you looked like a criminal, you would be okay with it and comply?
I wouldn’t. I’d be in fear of my life. Too many crazies out there these days.
You are the one that needs to re-read the statute and evaluate the timeline of events. The video of someone burglarizing property was done several days prior to this event (i.e. NOT ESCAPING or attempting to ESCAPE).
What happened is they had video of somebody doing something several days before, then on this day, saw Mr. Arbery running along and ASSUMED it was him they saw on the video.
Therefore they had no reasonable or probable grounds to conduct a citizen’s arrest.
@JWT you are wasting your breath. The break in happened at a different time, even if he was “fleeing” it would not matter under Georgia law. The statue reads immediately not after the fact. Unfortunately we have numerous readers here who can’t understand that. Then you also have to assume he was the actual perpetrator.
These two murdered this man and yes it should of been a DGU. If they had caught him on the property or fleeing with their property I would be more understanding. Extremely bad decisions and it paints all gun owners as some sort of crazed vigilantes.
Citizens can make arrests not detentions. Detentions are strictly a law enforcement function. Arrests (which anybody can do) are made based on probable cause, which these two dudes did not have. Detentions (which only cops can do) are based on reasonable suspicion, which is a stretch in this case. Cold case, no standing on the property (which was a house under construction and not an occupied dwelling), and video surveillance which is very subjective as a piece of evidence. I think cell phones would have been a better tool in this criminal investigation than guns. Try again Serge
I find it interesting that all the legal eagles on this site seem to be more familiar with Georgia criminal law that the original prosecutor on the case. You know, the one who said that there was no evidence of a crime.
I find it interesting that you don’t know anything about statutory/case law or how to look up legal definitions on Google, but you seem to have very strong opinions on criminal law.
… also: “Immediate knowledge” is like the whitechurch shooting in Texas and the guys who chased the suspect down. They didnt witness the mass murder and they weren’t in the church. But they were immediately aware of it and acted based on their “immediate knowledge”. Try again Serge
I find it interesting that you don’t know anything about statutory/case law or how to look up legal definitions on Google, but you seem to have very strong opinions on criminal law.
Again… the original prosecutor on the case agreed with my reading of the statute. You’re assuming dozens of facts not in evidence and have no access to the full record.
…says the guy who doesn’t have access to the case file and is make dozens of assumptions.
PWRSERGE,
You apparently don’t know about all the shady dealing WRT Glynn County PD, Sheriff and the DA’s office.
No, I just happen to have to initial conclusions of the person assigned the case. Funny how his reading of the Georgia statute seems to match my own.
pwrserge. Lawfully detain, perhaps. Murder? Absolutely not, which this is a very clear case of. Brandishing and discharging firearms in a neighborhood on a public roadway (which is a federal offense) committing premeditated murder because they “thought he looked like” someone that broke into a house.. You clearly are extremely ignorant of the law concerning firearms. I suggest you do some research before you stake claims of knowing the law. It really just appears to me that you condone this sort of killing….
Yeah… the DA’s office didn’t immediately string up that pair of crackers… they mus be racis
My rule of thumb, based on how literally EVERY SINGLE PREVIOUS CASE LIKE THIS played out is to trust the original prosecutor on the case.
My first reaction was “holly shit, this looks bad. Hold on, wait for the rest of the story to come out, because there’s got to be more to it.”
24 hours later
– original DA declined to prosecute
– plain reading of Georgia statute seems to support his decision
– every racist blacktivist organization under the sun seems to be involved
Me: “Hmm… second verse seems to be the same as the first… half dozen.”
Maybe there is more to this. But all I saw was a guy running, at a leisurely pace down the street, with empty hands. Looked more like a jogger than a burglar to me.
OK, now it’s all out in the open about our friend Sergei.
Is there any doubt in anyone’s mind about the danger individuals like him present to our society, especially when they’re armed with lethal weapons?
This is exactly the type of individual that is giving POTG a bad name and causing ordinary citizens to become concerned about their safety around armed people.
If reasonable POTG do not begin ostracizing individuals like this, and reporting the especially crazy ones to the relevant authorities, we will see our rights continue to eroade.
When events like this shooting in Georgia occur, it’s easy to see why the Karens want to disarm their fellow citizens, and remember the perpetrators of this murder were law-enforcement experienced who would work for the prosecutors office for years.
Does anyone honestly think this is the very first time dad had colored outside the lines regarding suspects and their rights?
“That’s the night that the lights went out in Georgia… “
miner. Your love of red flags says a lot about you. You are the flip side of serge. He’s the uber right wing nutter and you’re the uber left wing nutter.
Sensible folk should pay no attention to either one of you. Except as examples.
Yeah… How dare I not support a lynch mob after the original DA on the case laid out a good argument for why no crime occurred? I’m not going to make predictions, but this seems to be another Martin / Brown case. I don’t like political prosecutions and I certainly don’t like forum shopping.
But hey, you can call me a racist all you want. I don’t give a shit. Why? Because I didn’t grow up in a society where an accusation of racism is a scarlet letter. I happen to apply reason and logic to my arguments rather than emotion and racebaiting.
You want to convince me that the original DA was wrong or acting because of bias? Prove the bias. Otherwise, I’m going to defer to the man on the ground who has been an elected DA for about as long as I have been alive. You’d think that if your claims were true, the guy would have been up on federal civil rights charges YEARS ago.
Great! Now Miner49er showed up to argue with Serge. This comment thread is never going to die now!
Oh, I’m done shouting at a wall. It seems that the crowd here is ready to grab some rope and string up a pair of guys for the crime of being politically inconvenient while white. Forget that we don’t have access to the file or that the original DA who did yeeted the case.
Let’s all put on our pink hats and grab our pitchforks over our moral indignation and a total lack of knowledge of the case or relevant law. Certainly we are more qualified to judge the facts of the case and applicable law than an elected DA who has been prosecuting cases for longer than a lot of us have been alive.
I’ve lived long enough to know that nothing the mainstream media prints can be trusted at face value. I defer to the people on the ground. We’ll see how it turns out. But I’m done.
No crime report of any burglary, no video has surfaced
They had no right to detain him.
He was confronted with the crime of kidnap and presenting a firearm.
He had a right to resist.
They had no right to harm him.
Murder – or Lynching.
I served as an officer for 23 years. My degree is Criminal Justice.
I am shocked it took so long to charge these men, that is the real problem.
the original DA was a fool. This should have went to the Grand Jury.
BTW– the Chief and the top staff were indicted in Feb on different charges!
ALERT!! ALERT!!
Use of the racial slur “cracker” detected. Everyone go to your safe space while we clean this mess up!! Oh wait, it’s just a slur against honkeys. Eh, never mind, guys you can come back out. White people aren’t offended by those naughty words, and if they are, so what! They’re white!
Law only applies if the victim is absolutely sure they have the right person to accuse. No half baked guessing games, or let me see or I thoughts, etc. If you have a video then you take said video to the police.
To see where the so called suspect goes you can follow the so called suspect from a non confrontational distance. And that could get you a stalking charge if the suspect wasn’t who you thought. No matter what you do not confront the suspect in this case PERIOD.
In order for the law to apply to the two in jail for murder they needed both feet firmly inside the bounds of the law. Straddling the fence and semantics don’t cut it.
There is a lot more information out there for you to read and listen to. There’s a report and a 9-1-1 call to go along with the video. Consume that evidence if you don’t want to work from a position of bias.
The reason these 3 men were not charged is because the DA had a personal connection with the killers. The 2nd DA also had a personal connection with the killers. The 3rd DA decided not even attempt to touch such a nuclear case. The killers had worked for the police and DA office before the killing of Arbery.
Arbery tried to run from 3 men, 2 trucks and 2 guns. Of course race plays a part in the situation because it’s Georgia and most of the men involved with the case are old.
The father and son were armed with a shotgun and pistol. The father was in the back of the trunk and the son was driving. Their buddy was in another truck filming and on the phone. The son drove the trunk down the road to cut of Arbery again for the final time. The son got out of the truck and pointed the gun in the direction of Arbery and demanded he stop for a chat. Arbergy attempted to dodge the shotgun carrying man by quickly running to the right side of the truck. The father had his pistol in his hand while Arbery ran around the truck (again). The son moved to the front of the truck this time to intercept Arbery. Then Arbery ran toward the son, this is when he was shot in the hand. The situation became a fight for life. Arbery was shot again while he was punching, he was shot a third time (fatally) when he couldn’t hold onto the gun.
The law is not on the side of the killers nor is morality. The 3rd suspect is lucky he was recording and far removed from the shooting because he too would be charged, but now he will become a witness against the killers. What a friend…
The video is said to have been leaked by a lawyer because of the corruption in government. The case was covered up by people who worked with the killers. It was the only way to bring attention to the homicide. The person who leaked it is an older white man.
If you think white men won’t protect other white men, because those men don’t realize they are white men, you are not living in the real world. Same applies for cops protecting cops because they are cops. This is normal for the U.S.. I already predicted it would turn out to be because the white men involved had connections with the government. It’s way too common in America especially in the not too distant past.
Don’t lie by saying this shit ain’t common and never happens in Republican areas.
Do you remember Bradford cover up? Of course not because he was a young black male assumed to be a felon, thus summarily executed without warning. Go back and read all the comments from white men on that one.
This issue is a major reason why many moral men (of all colors) left the NRA.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vP10Ikqedg
They had video of SOMEONE committing a burglary. Absolutely no reason for this!
Agreed, T-sex.
@pwrserge
I am sure you have read the statute slowly, without a doubt.
“Attempting to escape” means trying to flee the scene of the crime. That man was in the street, and if he did commit the crime, he already escaped. One does not have the right to arm themselves and look for the person who they think committed the crime, that is revenge.
You cannot look for someone after the crime, you cannot arm yourself and go to their house to arrest them, or drive around and look for them.
Paul – You’re an IDIOT! Try going back and reading the transcripts of the Zimmerman trial. Zimmerman was returning to his vehicle when Trayvon ambushed him – THAT IS A FACT! He had Zimmerman on the ground beating his head against the pavement and was trying to take Z’s gun when Z shot him. It’s stupid f**ks like you who insist on continuing to tell lies that are the problem – you demented asswipes can’t accept the truth because it never fits your narrative!
Paul said:
“That’s the problem I had with the douchebag, Zimmerman. He didn’t have the balls to address the “suspect” under the streetlights, as the youngster walked past his car. Instead, he stalked the young man into the darkness between the houses.”
Didn’t happen like that Paul. Zimmerman observed the burglar Trayvon(yes, Trayvon had committed at least one burglary before coming to Zimmerman’s neighborhood) going between houses and peering into windows. While it was uncomfortably cool and raining, mind you. Zimmerman called 911 and reported Trayvon was acting suspiciously. Why would he “address” him?
pwserge said:
“They had video of him committing the burglary, they attempted to lawfully detain him. He attacked them. End of story.”
Then jwtaylor said:
“Exactly right, they committed murder. End of story.”
Wait, how did you get from “video of him committing the burglary…lawfully detain him” to your “they committed murder”?
Actually, that’s incorrect. § 17-4-60 only allows a “citizen’s arrest” “if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge.”
These lunatics allegedly had video from a burglary of an under-construction house days earlier (oddly enough, when a real reporter checked incident reports, no such burglary had been reported to the police). They thought Arbery LOOKED like the same person; they didn’t know for sure, which is why they said they wanted to talk to him. Gregory McMichael told 911 that a suspicious person was running through the neighborhood. The 911 operator directly asked him, “I just need to know what he was doing wrong, was he just on the premises and not supposed to be?” McMichael was unable to cite a definite crime, much less one that would justify lethal force.
It’s also worth noting that the McMichaels did not tell the police that they were doing a citizen’s arrest. That was invented several weeks later by Waycross DA Barnhill.
The video also conflicts with what they told they police, omitting the first shot by Travis BEFORE he and Arbery were enaged physically.
@Paul: That douchebag Zimmerman was on the phone with 911 and was heading back to his truck when Saint Trayvon attacked him in what his girlfriend described as a state of homophobic rage. Martin was a few hundred feet from his temporary residence when he decided to go after Zimmerman. These are all facts placed in evidence during Zimmerman’s trial. If you are not familiar with facts you should refrain from editorializing.
pwrserge would have been right at home defending lynchings in the 1800s because “a woman said he whistled at her”
“He attacked them. End of story.” You are either a complete idiot or a racist. Maybe both?
@PWRSERGE
Well, it just has to be said: You are certifiably stupid.
No bro, he ‘looked like’ a guy who committed a crime. And the ‘look like’ came from a doorbell camera. These two yahoos armed up and hunted the man down. Naturally an armed confrontation that they causes ensued and the ‘looks like’ guy got smoked.
They picked that fight and killed a man. Murder 2 at least.
“The homeowner, who declined to share the clips with CNN, said there were previous videos on other occasions showing a man entering the property and stealing fishing tackle but he could not identify the man and he did not file a police report.”
Want to try again, or is it too dim with your head up your own ass for you to actually use critical thinking for once?
They did not have a video of him committing a burglary, they had a video of someone committing a burglary a few weeks/months ago. From what you can see in the video, one truck was parked on the road in front of him while another was coming up in the back.(Videoing) I saw an unarmed black man jogging and getting shot and killed.
But there is no video of a home burglary. There are also no police reports of a home burglary in that time frame except for a report of someone stealing a gun that was left in a vehicle.
That vehicle was one of the shooters.
No. At the time f the killing they did now have the tape. I was downloaded later.
Further, there a multiple parts of the tape that shows people doing the same thing. Have they been tracked down and arrested?
“I agree but also, watching the video, there does not appear to be any reason to have shot the man.”
Except for the attempting at wresting away the victim’s shotgun at 0:15, or the punch to the head of the victim at 0:23.
“Even if he did commit the burglary, he was not inside the house committing the crime when they shot him.”
Right, the convicted felon/current burglar was shot while attacking his victim.
You can’t stick a shotgun in someone’s face then claim self defense when they are shot trying to take it away from you.
If these men had called 911 and followed the jogger they suspected of trespassing days prior at a distance, this never would have made the news.
Even if they chased down the right man, they are going to fight an uphill battle in court. Most jurors are going to be wondering why the men didn’t let the police handle this. It really is what most reasonable people would do. Especially over a minor property crime. It’s not like the victim was accused of raping their daughter or drove by in their stolen car.
Mister Fleas – The McMichaels were not victims. Aubrey was jogging down the street at 1pm and these two used their truck to cut him off and stop him several times. He continued to jog and ran around the truck. The son got out of the truck at once point with a shotgun.
The GA law requires someone to have witnessed a crime firsthand and recently (meaning minutes). These two did not witness a crime and had ZERO right to stop him. They tried to stop him illegally, then stopped him with a shotgun. They were the aggressors, they cannot claim self defense when they were the ones who instigated the entire situation.
What they did was illegal and they are going to prison for decades if not life.
Did they go through and review the decision making process? Nope. They could have stopped any number of times before the shooting. Stopping and thinking. Mature adult thinking.
“Wait. Let’s think this over. What if we do this, then what things (plural) could happen as resulting consequences?”
One stupid mistake after another, compounded and cascading into an event that should have been foreseen.
Father and son will go to prison for a long time. Blood on their hands. Their families destroyed. Not for bigotry or racism. For not thinking things through. For being stupid. For bring loaded weapons thinking they were badges of authority and persuasion.
What were those 4 rules of firearms safety?
Dumb and dumber.
Look at the zimmerman case and people saying this is similar, it’s not. zimmerman followed martin why talking to 911. The 911 dispatcher asked are you following him, zimmerman said yes and the 911 dispatcher said we don’t need you to do that. From the testimony at trial, it was proven zimmerman stopped following martin and walking back to his car to meet the cop. martin had run around the building and circled around to confront zimmerman, that’s when the altercation happened and martin was the aggressor.
In this case the father and son pursued and tried to use the truck to stop Arbery several times then exited the truck with a shotgun. They instigated everything here.
At the very most they should have followed Arbery while talking to 911 and giving them the description and location. They did not witness a crime, they had zero right to try to stop Arbery and are going to prison.
Hello everyone, moving forward, here is a question to answer (privately to yourself), without thinking about it.
Would you really attack or shoot someone, while that individual(s) was actively avoiding (running away) from you, when said individual(s) were not currently, and did not previously *aggressively approach or *attack you, or anyone in your care?
The question is “would you?” There is no question about your reasoning for doing so; either way.
I would request TTAG to generate a poll for this question; and count the moral failures.
No reason to take the law into your own hands. The statement “running through our neighborhood”… is very telling. You don’t own your neighborhood, anyone can jog through your neighborhood in this Country… If you suspect someone is/has committed a crime, take pictures/video and turn that into the police.
And how many times does your house or your neighbor’s house have to be broken into with no action by the police before it’s time to take the law into your own hands?
Yeah Dan, you’re right, gun down whoever you think did it!
I’m so glad you’re armed with lethal weapons, you certainly do present a real benefit to society.
I don’t think making blanket statements is good response to blanket statements….. what’s your point Miner49? Without the sarcasm and screaming.
miner is a well known leftist troll that looks for any excuse to disarm people. That’s the only point he has.
Jay, I’m not looking to disarm everybody and you know it.
But there is no question, I don’t think everybody has the mental stability or temperament to walk around with a lethal weapon and employ it at will.
Our friend Sergei here is a perfect example, he stands ready to do exactly what these two perpetrators did, gun down an innocent man.
Do you really believe that every citizen in America should have a lethal weapon with him at all times, every single citizen without respect to the mental capacity or temperament?
The supreme court does not agree with you, they’ve already ruled on this very situation in 1905 in Jacobson v Massachusetts.
“The liberty secured by the Constitution of the United States does not import an absolute right in each person to be at all times, and in all circumstances, wholly freed from restraint, nor is it an element in such liberty that one person, or a minority of persons residing in any community and enjoying the benefits of its local government, should have power to dominate the majority when supported in their action by the authority of the State.”
Of course, you will probably claim that those justices were leftist activist judges, in league with the secret muslim Obama, all the way back in 1905.
Continuing the mental stability argument…Miner, will you be voting for Joe Biden to be the commander in chief of the most powerful military on the planet? If so, it’s hard to take your argument seriously for obvious reasons.
I disagree with Miner a lot. We’ve had it out a couple times. But I agree here. 100%. When give the question: “How long before you take the law into your own hands when the cops refuse to do something?” Think of the repercussions when you are wrong, and then decide if being a vigilante is worth it. Whole lotta nope. Defend yourself and your own household. Plain and simple. That’s the problem with these retired tyran… LEOs… they still think they have a right to manipulate the law in their favor and investigate further. Wrong. Especially when there is zero evidence other than a borderline mistaken identity. Even if it was him, was he doing anything illegal at the time? So proving that it was in fact him would need to be rock solid, because he was not doing anything illegal. And then deciding that an ambush was the correct tactic based on having seen nothing illegal and convincing yourself that is was the criminal is definitely not a good plan of action either.
“Take the law into your own hands” is a very subjective statement. In this case they killed a guy who cannot be linked to said burglaries and now they have been arrested for murder. In this case “taking the law into their own hands” wasn’t a great idea. It might be a good idea in other circumstances, but definitely not in this case.
The original DA on the case disagrees.
“Third
It appears Travis McMichael,Greg McMichael, and Bryan William were following, in
pursuit burglary suspect, with solid firsthand probable cause, in their neighborhood, and
asking/ telling him to stop. It appears their intent was to stop and hold this criminal suspect until
law enforcement arrived. Under Georgia Law this is perfectly legal,”
https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/6916-george-barnhill-letter-to-glyn/b52fa09cdc974b970b79/optimized/full.pdf#page=1
Those are some very legal sounding buzz words you’re using there, but the way you’re using them is nonsense and illustrates your ignorance…. please just stop Serge.
The guy in the back of the pickup was a retired investigator who previously worked for the DA who decided not to prosecute. His son is the shooter. So the DA was protecting one of her own, which she has a reputation for. She protected cops in the Caroline Small shooting, and then she helped one of those cops bond out after stalking his ex-wife and then getting into an armed standoff with the police. That same ex-cop that she protected by preventing a witness from testifying at the bond hearing tracked down his estranged wife (Katie Sasser) and killed her two months later, after killing her male friend in front of her. Yeah, we should really trust the experienced judgement of Glynn County DA Jackie Johnson. I used to live in Brunswick, GA, for years. This was murder, not citizens arrest.
Yup and when some good old boys lynched black men in the olden days that’s exactly what they’d say too.
There’s a reason the FBI had to step in to start prosecuting hate crimes and it is exactly this. Two bubbas can murder a man in broad daylight and racists will come up with an excuse to defend them.
Yeah… that’s not bigoted at all… would you say the same thing if we flipped the races of the people involved? I find it staggering how many people accuse others of racism and then fall back on the “muh’ racis rednecks” bigotry. Do any of you have any evidence that race was a factor at all beyond the races of the people involved?
This isn’t the 1960s boomers. The calendar has moved a half dozen decades.
Typical leftist misdirection miner. You want to put up as many barriers as possible to owning weapons. Serge is a loud mouthed jerk. No argument. But being a loud mouthed jerk is no reason to lose your rights.
And before you start that other tired trope the left uses, no I don’t think everybody should own a nuke.
2020 is going to be a bad year for you.
I prefer hyper-rational asshole.
You cannot take the law into your hands.
The McMichael’s property was not burglarized. They didn’t even witness a burglary, they saw a video days prior and thought Arbery looked like the person. So they didn’t witness a crime as the GA law requires to pursue someone and they were not sure Arbery was the thief, he looked him the person.
The McMichael’s are going to prison for decades or life because they were the criminals in this situation.
Unless you are the victim, or witnessed the crime in person, you have to get a warrant. If you have evidence to suspect a particular person you can give an oath and affirmation… Then the professionals can go looking for that person under the suspicion they committed a particular crime.
I am fine with using deadly force to protect your life, liberty and property if you are the victim. But first give them a chance to give up, if they refuse, then use the force necessary. However, the law these days does not respect private property.
The father and son may have had a “right” to do, but did they do the “right” thing? Was the offense/felon a killing offense? Did the father and son advance the 2A right? Does this video make gun owners look like responsible citizens? You decide……………..
Separate discussion completely different from wether or not it’s justifiable to let the media pull another Zimmerman.
*whether
For all your posturing you truly are a moron.
Ok commie. When you learn 6 languages, you can come talk to me about minor spelling mistakes with my 4th.
But they didn’t have a right. They did not witness a crime and pursue the person. At the very most they saw a video of someone days prior who burglarized a house. They had no legal right to attempt to stop Arbery, they were the criminals in this instance.
Truth is based on facts…Justice is governed by opinion. The two often have little to do with each other.
Sorry. Looks like murder to me.
Lying in wait. Certainly not self defense.
Those bastards should die. Slowly. Maybe let the victim’s family cut them with little razors so they bleed out slowly.
Yeah… how dare they try to detain a criminal and then defend themselves when said criminal refused to be lawfully detained. Fuck off.
Absolutely no evidence that he was the supposed criminal. only supposition.
Please share the convicting evidence that warranted these two acting this way? I am quite sure their actions were not justified. That video seals the deal pretty effectively.
The video seals jack shit. If their attempt to detain was lawful, then everything you see on that tape is perfectly legal.
Serge, If is a big component here. This was days later and “he looks like the guy my security cam showed breaking into my truck several days ago” is a long way from pursuing a bad guy caught in the act. I wouldn’t chase after the guy even then unless he had harmed a family member. Call the cops and let them follow up. As it is they are both likely to go to prison, and the civil trial that follows will suck up any assets left. I hope the younger one has no kids, because they are going to be left without because of the stupidity of their dad and his father.
The original prosecutor on the case seemed to think the arrest was lawful. I’m going to defer to the guy who has seen all the evidence rather than an activist lynch mob who has gone down this road a half dozen times.
“ USA TODAY filed an open public records request with the Glynn County Police Department for burglaries and home break-ins in the Satilla Shores neighborhood between Jan. 1 and Feb. 23. The department’s records office said in an email Thursday it had no records matching that request. ”
Based on this:
1. The shooting was not immediately after a crime.
2. The jogger wasn’t running from a crime.
3. At best, the two shooters “thought” the jogger had, sometime in the past, committed a crime that was never reported.
4. Given the quality of most home surveillance cameras, an identification of a person is difficult.
5. As two months have passed, one can reasonably expect That the video of the crime
There were no burglaries.
They are racist liars who murdered a man in cold blood.
“how dare they try to detain a criminal”
Sergei, you are asserting facts not in evidence. But that’s OK, adolescents often have difficulty understanding legal issues, that’s why we let adults handle it.
I hope you never come into possession of firearms or any other lethal weapons…
Hey Miner, the original DA on the case says you’re full of shit.
https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/6916-george-barnhill-letter-to-glyn/b52fa09cdc974b970b79/optimized/full.pdf#page=1
“It appears Travis McMichael, Greg McMichael, and Bryan William were following, in ‘hot pursuit’ a burglary suspec,t with solid first hand probable cause.”
I guess your reading comprehension skills are a little week, perhaps you should re-read the prosecutors letter.
The perpetrators’ statements to the police officers made clear they were not in hot pursuit and they had not witnessed a burglary.
Do you even understand what the term ‘hot pursuit’ means? Do you understand what first-hand means? (Probably not because you’re not an American)
The DA lied many times in his letter, and there will be professional malpractice consequences for him, if not criminal charges for producing a fraudulent official document.
And the record shows, there were no reported burglaries, a FOIA request was filed by reporters and none were reported in the neighborhood.
Again, it’s bloodthirsty, racist POTG like Sergei that will cause us to lose our liberties.
He is an agent provocateur.
John S. Cronin if you’re going to make up bullshit lies, at least make them more difficult to disprove… by… you know… reading the letter from said DA I linked above and scrolling down to the signature line.
“Hey Miner, the original DA on the case says you’re full of shit…”
How convenient that we now hold DAs up to be paradigms of virtue and knowledge. Where was this view on them when the DA disregarding the police’s decision to not prosecute Zimmerman and went ahead anyway?
That DA was incompetent or, more likely, cared more about politics than the law.
THIS DA is either incompetent or corrupt. Probably the latter with the connection to the good old boys. § 17-4-60 does not allow for two yokels to go chase down and murder a black man because they think he looked like someone in a video of a burglary that happened some time in the past.
Hannibal, read the fucking letter, there was no “connection” between the DA in question and the suspects. At least not any closer connection than between me and Donald Trump.
I have read in a couple of places that the dead jogger was in his neighborhood. Not sure of this fact.
What is a fact is the shooters did not catch him in the act. They have been directly quoted as saying he matched the description of a burglar. So they choose to arm themselves and follow.
“Let’s ride again!”
What was the description? “Skinny black guy”?
They didn’t try to detain a criminal, they accosted a jogger with neither reasonable suspicion nor probable cause and certainly not under color of law. The concept of citizen’s arrest is not carte blanche to actively go patrolling the streets looking for crime, especially if you are a couple dumbass yokels who are going to be wrong when do it.
Lol… yeah… “jogger” and Trayvon was just running down to the store for some skittles.
I find it interesting that despite EVERY SINGLE CASE like this that we hear about turning out to be a criminal or criminally stupid scumbag getting ventilated in good faith, everybody always jumps to the defense of the guy getting ventilated.
Actually this isn’t one of those cases we always hear about. This is one of those cases we never hear about. As in just another one that gets shoved under the rug.
“What is a fact is the shooters did not catch him in the act. They have been directly quoted as saying he matched the description of a burglar.“
Correct. And the first DA lied in his letter when he claimed that the perpetrators were in hot pursuit and had firsthand probable cause.
Clearly, the first ADA is an accessory after-the-fact and should be prosecuted to the full sticks to the law.
Of course, Sergei won’t agree because he’s a racist and thinks that all black people are criminals. I wonder who he voted for in 2016?
Pwrserge, I’m often able to identify the ethnicity of most of the Slavs that live around here before they even speak. You do tend to have certain facial features. And we do have types of crime that the vampire sounding folks are usually the ones involved with like stealing expensive plants . So you would be OK with me chasing you or one of your relatives down because I think they might swiped one of the huge staghorn ferns I have hanging in the trees earlier that week and blowing their ass away if they even so much as move in a threatening way? I mean heck, you do all kind of look alike you know. So it would be perfectly understandable I would make a mistake and go after the wrong Slav.
Ken, your argument would be relevant and not totally race baity if not for one key detail… The old man of the group PERSONALLY KNEW the criminal in question because he had previously investigated him for violating his parole.
“They didn’t try to detain a criminal, they accosted a jogger…”
A “jogger” with a lengthy criminal record.
Oh yeah, a lengthy criminal record. Two convictions, one when he was a kid in school foolishly bringing a weapon to school, the other was shoplifting.
But of course, all black males are hardened criminals, right?
*alleged criminal.
So you’re telling me if two strangers confronted you with firearms in public, you would let them detain you? You wouldn’t do something to try and protect yourself?
Irrelevant. I wasn’t caught on tape committing a residential burglary.
Neither was the victim caught on video here. Nice way to deflect your own bullshit.
Fuck off.
https://youtu.be/cSQN3TzrpO8
Totally relevant. If armed men saw you in public and chased you down because you matched the description of someone involved in a crime, you would be okay with being detained and not put up a fight?
That’s LITERALLY WHAT COPS DO jackass.
They weren’t uniformed officers. But you still haven’t answered my question. Would you be peacefully detained by random dudes chasing you down with guns, or would you fight back, regardless of if you committed a crime or not?
Even if I did, that doesn’t make my detention unlawful. That’s the proper response to your question is #notanargument
You know, when regular citizens think about gun owners, many of them think of folks like Sergei.
And you know, clearly on the comments directly above he’s alive, he would be the first to pull out his weapon and start shooting when he was in lawfully detained by a couple armed men.
But because the victim is black in this case, he’s all to ready to justify the vigilantes unlawfully detaining him.
That’s pretty friggin chilling, I hope he doesn’t live anywhere near me. Probably not much chance of that, I don’t live in Russia.
Obviously, if he had been convicted of a felony, he was found guilty of a crime, which meant he was a criminal. Now, unless that conviction was overturned or the gov or president pardoned him, he will live his life as a convicted criminal.
Even if they had been police officers, they would not have had the right to use deadly force in this situation.
Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985):
“This case requires us to determine the constitutionality of the use of deadly force to prevent the escape of an apparently unarmed suspected felon. We conclude that such force may not be used unless it is necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others.”
You can read the whole case here: https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/471/1/
Tennessee v. Garner is particularly relevant because it involved the fatal shooting of an unarmed fleeing burglary suspect. Even a police officer in pursuit could not have lawfully shot Mr. Arbery under the circumstances described, so a couple of non-police officers cannot bootstrap a “citizens arrest” into a justification for shooting him. Being “suspected” of a nonviolent burglary at some point in the past does not translate into “probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others.” They had no legal basis to bring firearms into play here to “arrest” him, unless you think that “resisting arrest” by a couple of unidentified vigilante yahoos chasing you in a pickup truck with guns is a crime in itself. I’d say it is more like trying to avoid being the victim of a drive-by shooting. They could have taken a drive-by photo of Mr. Arbery and given it to the police to follow up, but instead they escalated the situation leading to a man’s death.
Porkchop, if they were cops, this would be black letter justifiable. Why? Because the dipshit felon charged the people trying to detain him and started struggling with one of them for his gun. The case you cited doesn’t apply.
If this had been done by a real cop, there would have been no firearms in play. Real cops don’t approach lone joggers with their guns drawn when they want to find out whether the jogger knows anything about a residential burglary that took place on another day. Real cops stop and ask questions, usually politely and professionally. And if the jogger tried to run away, a real cop would not have shot the jogger or threatened to do so.
pwrserge sez “The video seals jack shit. If their attempt to detain was lawful, then everything you see on that tape is perfectly legal.”
In Georgia, to make a citizen’s arrest, you must witness the crime first hand, in person, with your own eyeballs, then IMMEDIATELY make the citizen’s arrest. Trying to make a citizen’s arrest several days later, based on some fuzzy video? That’s MURDER. It would be murder even in Texas.
“A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.”
Relevant statute. How many times am I going to have to post this shit? Try reading it past the first sentence.
Don’t interrupt pwrserge, he’s on a roll. Those yahoos in GA had better hope he’s on the jury.
Paul, good post until the last sentence
when you crap in your pants.
In civilized societies we have “innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.”
Chef Censor, that is only for Leftist, like yourself.
Don’t link that socialist grifter, Tim Pool. That man pulls the Asian card when needed, then he pulls the Jewish card when that won’t work. He has been shilling to Trump fans for cash in the last few months. The guy was an open all in communist. He lies and doesn’t do a good job of researching. He is no longer a professional leftist “journalist,” he’s an online talking head for liberal Republicans.
I link him because he’s one of the few sane leftists left on the planet.
pwrserge – The original prosecutor on the case seemed to think the arrest was lawful. I’m going to defer to the guy who has seen all the evidence rather than an activist lynch mob who has gone down this road a half dozen times.
LOL. So the original prosecutor is infallible? Prosecutors make terrible decisions all the time, just because he thought one way, that doesn’t mean they are correct. The muellar team in DC looked at the “evidence” and railroaded people in an investigation/prosecution of “russian collusion” where they knew there was no crime or collusion.
By your logic, the muellar prosecutors were correct. Absurd.
After the Michael Brown and Travon Martin cases, I want to see more evidence. But these two white guys have some splainin to do!
After Brown and Martin, I wish the blacktivists would quit using career criminals as their poster boys.
Have you uncovered Ahmaud’s criminal record? Please, share it.
See the video I linked below. Watch it all the way, then get back to me.
His past criminal history is irrelevant. Only racists will bring that up to use for their cause. What criminal “history” that matters is the one he was being accused of at the time. The courts will not accept his past as an argument because it’s an attempt to ruin the reputation of the dead/victim and the killers/suspects did not know the history of that man.
It’s all about the information at the time and if the course of events constitutes “self defense.”
Actually, his criminal history is relevant as to his relationship with the shooter. Try again.
Finding a freshly put down scumbag of color without a long rap sheet is gonna be hard to do.
These days even white people be getting a criminal record for being capitalists or leaving their homes. White supremacists can’t use that one anymore.
pwrserge:
I’ve been following this thread and have taken note of your repeated insistence that the two “citizens” in this case are somehow justified in their actions. I don’t think so. Anyway you cut it, this is MURDER.
These guys overstepped a citizen’s authority by taking the law into their own hands in what might very well have been a mistaken identity regarding a crime that occurred days earlier. Even if they had the right guy (which doesn’t seem to have been established) they pursued him down a city street and tried to apprehend him. In other words, these vigilantes usurped the authority of the constabulary. I don’t know about where you come from, but if I were to do what these guys did, I could look forward to about 20 years in the slam; maybe more.
As for the prosecutor, read it again:
“Gregory McMichael served as an investigator for Glynn County District Attorney Jackie Johnson before retiring last year. The connection caused Johnson to recuse herself from the case.”
The prosecutor did NOT decline to prosecute; she RECUSED herself on the basis of a former working relationship with one of the perpetrators in the case. Maybe she was worried about the possibility of being caught in a conflict of interests.
Apparently the Glynn County cops at the initial scene wanted to arrest the two assailants, but they called the DA’s office and the DA declined to have them arrested. This same DA (a SHE, not a HE, by the way) later recused herself, because the one of the assailants previously worked for her office as an investigator.
pwserge knows NOTHING about this case, but keeps trolling his idiotic opinions here like they are some kind of facts.
The guy in the back of the pickup was a retired investigator who previously worked for the DA who decided not to prosecute. His son is the shooter. So the DA was protecting one of her own, which she has a reputation for. She protected cops in the Caroline Small shooting, and then she helped one of those cops bond out after stalking his ex-wife and then getting into an armed standoff with the police. That same ex-cop that she protected by preventing a witness from testifying at the bond hearing tracked down his estranged wife (Katie Sasser) and killed her two months later, after killing her male friend in front of her. Yeah, we should really trust the experienced judgement of Glynn County DA Jackie Johnson. I used to live in Brunswick, GA, for years. This was murder, not citizens arrest.
Wow… literally everything you wrote is bullshit. See the letter I linked above…
SIGNED
George E . Barnhill
District Attorney
Waycross Judicial Circuit
pwrserge
Barnhill’s son worked in the same office as the father. He has a clear conflict of interest.
@pwrserge
Apparently, it has been reported recently that the father knew of the shoplifting and probation violation. The son/shooter probably did not. This makes it much worse for the crew.
They profiled a man without evidence of a crime because they knew he committed a crime in the past. That’s even more fucked up. They treated him like a pedophile/registered sex offender.
Usually in court they do not allow into evidence prior criminal history. Now the case is going to be about profiling, assumption of guilt and a personal connection between the victim and the accused. That will move the charge up to first degree murder instead of manslaughter.
I was thinking it would go as low as involuntary manslaughter, but now that it was exposed the father knew the victim… If there is justice in that area, the father is fucked for life and the son might argue against his own father to lessen his conviction.
No wonder the investigators went straight to murder.
Except for the part where he was on video and probably recognizable.
You are dealing in a lot of maybes, probables, sort of and could haves.
None justified chasing him down the street in a car with guns.
That’s where you and I disagree… seeing a convicted felon running through your neighborhood after a string of felonies in which the felon in question was identified on camera constitutes reasonable suspicion that a crime has occurred. That’s enough for a citizens arrest under Georgia statute as the original DA in the case already explained.
There is zero evidence Arbery was the person in a video burglarizing a house. But even if he were, that was days prior and these two had no right to pursue him. The GA law if very clear you need to have firsthand knowledge a crime has been committed and the crime just occurred.
The father and son has no legal right to pursue someone for a crime which happened in the past.
And the cops who responded to the scene wanted to make arrests, the first DA Jackie Johnson prevented them from doing so. The cops were on the scene and talked to the father and son and saw the situation and believed they had probable cause for an arrest.
And pwrserge keeps on asserting the shooters had all this information on the dead guy which somehow justifies going down the street with guns and drawing a shotgun on him.
I guess they forgot how to call police and have them deal.with it. Retirement must have cause the former cop to be forgetful.
GS650G – exactly. These two put themselves is a situation they should not have been. If no one is being hurt or at danger, call the cops and at most follow the person and give 911 the location, path of travel and descrption.
I have no idea if race was a factor, saying it was is speculation right now. But the father and son absolutely did not make rational decisions. They were at minimum stupid and it’s going to cost them their freedom for decades.
To pwrserge
I wish blacks and whites would stop their love affair with morality degenerate people. Criminals or not.
Martin and Brown. Or degenerates like former house Speaker Paul Ryan.
Those white boy’s are in a heep of trouble. Close to a lynching(how dare you fight back from armed rednecks in a truck?!?)” But I’m a former cop! I’m special”…
I’m joking here.
“Cops of the south will ‘ride again.’ Damn diversity. Damn those Black Lives Matter Democrats. Damn all those anti white liberals, including the white ones.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6i-gYRAwM0&t=0m11s
Father and son should share a cell for a long time !!
Things just got real and real expensive for the McMichael’s, when the whole story comes out there will be some simple lessons to review.
Whether Ahmaud Arbery lived in the immediate neighborhood where he was shot is not relevant. Any person in this country has the right to jog down a public road in a residential area.
As a conceal carry license holder, if I was walking down the road and two armed men in a vehicle stopped and one of the men attempted to restrain me, I would shoot as I have the right to protect myself from an armed man attacking me.
What we need is for more law abiding African American Men and Women to get conceal carry permits along with a firearm to protect themselves from cop wannabes who feel that have the right to attack and apprehend people. After a few cop wannabes get shot for attacking innocent people this should bring an end to this illegal and murderous behavior.
Yes, that exactly. Some individuals seem to believe that because Ahmaud had dark skin, he must have been guilty of something. But that’s not the point at all – we’re ALL guilty of SOMETHING. Ahmaud had the same right as any lighter skinned person to courtesy and respect. He responded to a credible threat to his life in a reasonable manner – trying to remove that threat to his life. Unfortunately, the wrong person was shot in this confrontation.
Wait, what!? A black person can run through a white neighborhood and not get lynched? None of the Karens are going to call up the good ol’ boys to ride on this thug? What kind of country is that? This is an outrage, which is why we all got to vote Republican only. These new Democrats are not living up to their founder’s ideals. And where is the NRA in protecting their members from this Black Lives Matter, blue line hating, witch hunt!?
“As a conceal carry license holder, if I was walking down the road and two armed men in a vehicle stopped and one of the men attempted to restrain me, I would shoot as I have the right to protect myself from an armed man attacking me.”
Another dead badger.
I am on the side of wait and watch on this. You guys that are always accusing people of sounding like one of the democrats that judge on feelings and not waiting for a possible shoe to fall is making me sick. Remember the poor black youth that was just selling cigarettes and getting killed for it. Wow everyone had judged the officer to hell before the info came out. Zimmerman and dozens of cases have ended up the same way. How can you know if he used jogging as a way to stake out his next robbery? Serge is being called racist because of this guy’s color. I wonder if it’s that they commit the majority of crimes. So many crying heart democrats. I bet if Obama would have had a son he would have looked like him. I am feeling like I’m on an msnbc chat line.
Not making any judgements here, but:
#1 The recused prosecutor, one of them anyways, said there is video or Arbery committing the break in
#2 Arbery has been involved in burglary and carrying a firearm on school grounds
You wouldn’t mind sharing a link to that “evidence”, would you?
The DAs do, apparently.
So far there is zero evidence that the dead man had committed any crime.
Two idiots thought they could go hunting for a criminal, picked an innocent man and killed him when he resisted their attack. The dead man had every right to resist their assault. Grabbing the barrel of the shotgun would be a desperation move, and far from the first time a murder victim had defensive injuries to the hands.
Unless evidence to the contrary comes forth, both of these killers should hang.
So far the media hasn’t spoon fed you that evidence. Just like every other dead scumbag they portray as a saint.
Neither has the government and the killers. This all came out of a leak.
Straight murder. I don’t expect the comments on this page to agree. This website has gone full looney tunes. Two white men attack a black man with their guns out. They didn’t even witness his supposed crime. If only he had a gun to defend himself with. Put yourself in his shoes. Two men with guns chase you in a car and jump you with guns. You’re fighting for your life. You have to assume their intention is to murder or torture you. Between articles like this, and ones covering the COVID crisis as being a hoax (more people died in April from COVID than in Vietnam), this site is dead to me. Stick to reporting about firearms, and not spouting conspiracy and Russian propaganda meant to divide the country even more than it is.
Only pwrserge has gone full looney tunes
He seems to have quite the emotional investment in this story, doesn’t he?
#1 way to avoid getting shot.
https://youtu.be/1c_I841J6_M
You keep nailing it Serge!
Facts and reality are inconvenient for many, even here.
Yes, the way to avoid getting shot is to sit at your computer and watch videos on YouTube.
That doesn’t seem to work. Criminals be kicking in doors knowing everyone is under house arrest.
I have been confronted by criminals who wanted to “talk.” Luckily, I was good at talking.
I’ve known people who were confronted for at “chat” who were shot dead or jumped.
Where I grew up, anytime you see a van or truck full of guys wanting to talk, you run as fast as you can through other people’s property. You don’t stick around to find out where the conversation is going to go. You run your ass home or to your buddy’s house.
I remember when a group of people in van from another race pulled up saying, “Hey, we want to talk.” They jumped out, dragged my friend into the street and started beating him. They had guns, so I couldn’t do a thing to help. I could only watch from the sidewalk as they beat him until they felt good. Then they drove off with a threat. If we called the cops we could get in trouble because the police are corrupt and the posse will use their guns next time.
If I find myself in that situation now, I would shoot every one of those men in the head as fast as I can. There is no way I would be able to outrun a vehicle, a bunch of men and bullets.
“No shit there I was…”
“Two white men attack a black man with their guns out. They didn’t even witness his supposed crime.”
Facts not in evidence at this point.
“Put yourself in his shoes.”
Okay, I’m a burglar with a lengthy criminal record who a ghetto mentality.
“Two men with guns chase you in a car and jump you with guns.”
Me as the Burglar: “She-it! It’s the dude whose property I stole from!”
“You’re fighting for your life.”
In other words, run across the street and start grappling for a gun with the man whose property I stole.
You could change your handle to fleabag. There is evidence, in the initial filing. The so called “hot pursuit” was for a video they claimed to see days earlier, so more of a luke warm kind of pursuit at best. Also, he was known in the neighborhood and shot 2 miles from his mom’s place. He did a lot of garden work and was generally a nice smiling guy. Also, he wasn’t running down a street in daylight with a 50″ TV, he was on a leisurely jog. Further, I’m guessing the two geniuses with guns also had a new fangled thing called a “tellly phone” and could have used it to call the police if they were really all about the law. After all, he wasn’t running down the street with a TV was he. Evidenced by no bag of loot, or TV by his dead body.
Randall “the Great” Legend said, Put yourself in his shoes. Two men with guns chase you in a car and jump you with guns. You’re fighting for your life
No, I would have said, Hands up, Do Shoot Bro!
I hope someone who maybe resembles pwrserge is never caught on camera committing a felony. Then anyone would have the right to summarily execute him
Yeah… Because that’s totally what happened. It’s not like this guys has a criminal history of burglary or anything… It’s not like the men in question couldn’t reasonably ID him from a video…
All the information regarding MR. Arbery prior criminal issues are irrelevant in this case base the father and son would have known absolutely none of this at the time of the shooting.
Therefore, he is afforded all the rights of someone who is presumed innocent.
In correct. Them seeing the video of the man who burgled their neighbor constitutes the cause for their reasonable suspicion which makes their initial actions lawful, which makes their subsequent self-defense lawful.
“Them seeing the video of the man who burgled their neighbor constitutes the cause for their reasonable suspicion which makes their initial actions lawful”
Nope, the Georgia citizens arrest statute you keep quoting says immediate knowledge, watching a grainy video tape from a few weeks ago on an unreported burglary does not count. It was an unlawful detainment at best, and I would say attempted kidnapping at gunpoint.
Nope, the Georgia citizens arrest statute you keep quoting says immediate knowledge, watching a grainy video tape from a few weeks ago on an unreported burglary does not count. It was an unlawful detainment at best, and I would say attempted kidnapping at gunpoint.
Anytime you try to stop someone from from proceeding on their way at gunpoint, you have committed a felony.
There are TWO standards in the Georgia statute. Anybody with a basic command of the English language would have noticed the period between the immediate knowledge standard and the felony standard. The felony standard is reasonable suspicion. Go home and collect your Kung-Pow Bat and your bag of moldy rice commie.
A) his criminal history is irrelevant since it was outside the knowledge of the defendants anyway. It would be a stretch for it to be relevant even if it was.
B) their statements don’t clearly indicate they even saw the tape in question. But regardless, “citizens arrest” is not a concept that exists for people to actively go out trying to solve crimes they were not a witness to – it’s not a basis to go looking for trouble.
C) they had no reasonable suspicion nor probable cause that the man in jogging clothes in broad daylight – matching a loose description or not – had actually committed a crime or represented an ongoing danger to the public.
The McMichaels were the initial aggressors. A reasonable person in Arbery’s position would be afraid for their life and have no duty to retreat; he was justified to try to defend himself even if unarmed. That right does not shift back to the original aggressor without disproportionate escalation of force, which objectively did not take place (contrast the Trayvon Martin shooting, where he assumed control of the physical encounter and began beating Zimmerman’s ass). The McMichaels therefore do not have a right to escalate force at all, and not reasonable fear of death or grievous bodily harm to justify deadly force.
I’m only a member of the Florida Bar and not the Georgia one, but unless you are of either, it’s one up on you. They had no business confronting him with the information available and did not conduct themselves lawfully when they did. Arbery was justified to try to defend his life – he had no duty to retreat and probably calculated a higher risk to continue trying to. The McMichaels are guilty of murder.
Yeah… The fact that it took a blacktivist lynch mob to even get these guys charged would indicate otherwise. This isn’t the 1950s if any of what you said was true, the local DA would have thrown the book at them.
Agree with Dan H.
Additionally from what I’ve read, alleged house in question was under construction and not occupied. Heck I’ve gone on property and looked at houses being constructed just to see quality, especially foundation footers and walls.
Firearm on school property was at a Friday Night football game in 2012 I believe.
I read some of the transcripts of the 911 call….I believe it will seal their fate for Murder 1st degree.
This was an ambush and vigilantism.
Excellent. As to Zimmerman I thought the state guaranteed acquittal by over charging anyway, though your spot on about the change in roles (aggressor/victim). Always like to see all the facts come out, but initial impression is these two are going to prison. Even in GA.
Georgia law is very (overly?) broad on what structures qualify for burglary. It would include a shelter with a roof but no walls.
“The fact that it took a blacktivist lynch mob to even get these guys charged would indicate otherwise.”
Yes, that just shows that the corrupt Courthouse gang had managed to white-wash the crime for almost 3 months until the video was leaked to the public.
The perpetrators did not have firsthand knowledge or witness any crimes, and they were not in hot pursuit of the victim.
Hot pursuit means the close, continuous pursuit of a fleeing suspect immediately after the crime.
It applies only to those who actually witnessed the crime, not to some grainy video tape weeks after the alleged crime.
Prove it Miner. I have primary source documents that say otherwise. You have SJW bullshit. Go fuck yourself.
Sergei, I’m sorry you don’t have the benefit of the cultural history us American boys do.
If you had grown-up watching highway patrol with Broderick Crawford or Dragnet with Jack Webb, you would know exactly what hot pursuit was. And you would understand that the perpetrators of this murder were not in hot pursuit.
The initial DA lied in his letter where he claimed that they had immediate first-hand knowledge of the crime and were in hot pursuit of the suspect.
Or he has a better understanding of the law than some left wing vermin who got his legal education by watching TV. I’m going to go with that possibility given that he probably finished law school before I was born.
Your worthless legal opinion is proof of jack shit.
Do you know how common it is for cops not to be able to identify a criminal caught on camera? They usually have to get the entire nation to help them out.
A lot easier when you had previously investigated the guy on camera for violating parole.
If they knew the victim’s identity, then they could have simply reported him to the police with the evidence of the surveillance video. Absolutley no reason to go chasing after him and precipitate an armed conflict.
Never claimed that their choices were smart. Dumb and illegal are different things.
Sounds as though this attempt at law enforcement was both.
Given the totality of the circumstances and the reading of the law by the original riding DA, I’d say there’s more than enough room for reasonable doubt.
People make mistakes. There’s a reason that police should never pull this kind of shit with undercover or plainclothes officers. If a uniformed cop makes a mistake or simply has been provided with misleading evidence and tries to arrest someone who is not guilty (been there on at least two occasions- bad witnesses\complainants), hopefully that suspect realizes that by surrendering, he can avail himself of the justice system.
Additionally, police hopefully have the ability to deal with someone fighting back other than by just shooting them when that “suspect” decides not to surrender. And yes, I think the video of the Chicago transit cop shows assault with a deadly weapon- although at least they tried other options first.
But when two fat white bearded guys in a pickup truck come roaring up with guns in their hands that doesn’t look like someone trying to conduct an arrest. That’s a robbery, kidnapping or murder.
These are the reasons with there are more limits on citizen arrest powers and why there is no qualified immunity- because people should be free of being chased down by two yahoos with guns and a pickup because of a resemblance to a video from a previous burglary.
Betcha the father was more than capable of making a positive ID from the video given that he investigated the perp’s parole violation.
PwrAss, your Antifa membership is overdue.
I know this, regardless of the facts, there will be riots. Soros is ginning up the paid riot squads right now, just like was done in Ferguson. The race baiters, and race pimps will be coming out of the woodwork to get their face on camera so they can get a payday, good ole’ Al Sharpton style.
I love the people who suddenly are lawyers on here. I am a lawyer. There is no law I’m aware of in our country (trust me, I looked on Westlaw) that allows a private citizen to arm themselves, track down a suspected criminal, and kill that person on public grounds when that person is unarmed and is not presenting imminent threat of harm.
I don’t have all the facts – but based on this video, it looks like a pre-meditated killing (murder) as well as stalking (chasing this guy down instead of calling the police) and aggravated (armed) harassment.
They had a car. They could just follow him and call the police.
0 reason to leave the safety of their vehicle and engage in aggression with weapons.
Are you a member of the Georgia bar? Because if you’re not, your opinion matters about as much as anybody else. The statute seems to put these guys in the clear.
Your failure to comprehend the Georiga law is as good as these two. You cannot hunt someone down days after you think they have committed a crime. Yes even with this Georgia law. It applies only while the act is being committed. Reading comprehension really is not your thing.
Seriously are you even on the side of gun rights? You are as bad as Boch with the hatred for a certain race.
No, I just hate people who assume that the color of a person’s skin is relevant to anything.
The fact that we have seen THE EXACT SAME STORY play out a half dozen times over the past few years and you’re still falling for it is depressing.
You must forgive Sergei, citizens in foreign countries don’t understand American legal terms such as hot pursuit or first-hand knowledge. He also shows a fawning devotion to authority figures, in this case placing the original DA’s statement above the actual facts in evidence and statements from the perpetrators.
And I also believe that Sergei is posting on this net just to create division, give POTG a bad name for being bloodthirsty killers and intentionally causing discord and strife among POTG.
He is an agent provocateur.
You must forgive Miner. CCP propaganda trolls don’t understand things like “due process” of the English language.
Commie, English is my FOURTH language and I have a better command of it than you do.
Beef, you are more of a banister than a barrister.
Which statute is that? The one that says “Dem niggas must bow down and worship any Cracker who demands it!”
Probably the one about Dem niggas not be stealing n shit.
How many times do we have to see the exact same story play out before we learn that the main stream media is going to report shit as out of context as possible to serve their political agenda?
Apparently just as many times as we must see your posts ignoring all known facts, inventing non-existing alternative facts and reaching a conclusion unsupported by, well, anything at all other than your politics.
… and yet, the original prosecutor on the case agreed with me. Funny that.
If you know anything about all the shady dealing regarding the Glynn County PD, Sheriff’s and DA in dealing with their own people (in which he was one up until last year), i wouldn’t trust what they said at all in this case.
And now the prosecutor doesn’t agree with you at all.
JW… Can we please assume that the people we disagree with are making claims in good faith?
“The original prosecutor who later recused himself, George E. Barnhill of Georgia’s Waycross Judicial Circuit, noted that the McMichaels were carrying their weapons legally under Georgia law. He also cited the state’s citizen’s arrest statute, and the statute on self-defense.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/08/us/ahmaud-arbery-shooting-georgia.html
Letter from the original DA. To me, this is a clear sign of racist activists going forum shopping.
https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/6916-george-barnhill-letter-to-glyn/b52fa09cdc974b970b79/optimized/full.pdf#page=1
serge. I really don’t know why I’m wasting my time with you. Here goes. In Huntington WV where I worked and lived at the time a city cop in uniform and on duty sat at a bar drinking during his shift. When it was time to end his shift he left said bar and, still in sunny daylight, he walked to his cruiser. Looking down the alley near his car he saw a group of young black men talking to one another.
Just for shits and giggles he pulled his revolver and fired several shots at the men. Nobody was hit and another, sober cop had pulled up at the moment the drunk cop had started busting caps. Sober cop disarmed drunk cop and called a supervisor. The fellows under fire had scampered.
The local prosecutor declined to press charges and the city .gov backed him. It wasn’t until the feds got involved that any meaningful action was taken.
Hinging your argument on what the local DA did not file charges on is at best weak sauce.
The consensus is contrary to the laws you are attempting to use to exonerate the two placed in the crossbar hotel. You said a video of the deceased was available so where is it? Why wasn’t that video taken to the police? A video of the 2 murdering a jogger was taken to the police and a grand jury and it was enough for murder charges.
Gettin’ your guns, gettin’ in your truck and chasing down someone who looks like they fit the mold is as dumb as it sounds. Your “video evidence of a crime” if it exists actually is a reason for the 2 nitwits NOT to pursue. Since the 2 nitwits could not make a positive ID is another reason NOT to pursue.
Most prudent individuals have cell phones with cameras like the guy who took the video of what wound up being a homicide. It’s a police matter from the get-go. You have no podium.
Nice to see so many members of the Georgia bar here. Funny how the DA who was bullied into recusing himself had a read of the statute that 100% matched mine. Care to cite any case law on point in Georgia that contradicts the DA’s position?
https://nypost.com/2020/05/08/father-of-georgia-shooter-had-investigated-ahmaud-arbery/
He was a thug. Self defense. Never going to get an conviction.
@DJ
First, “thug” is the new word for “nigger.” Second, this makes it worse for the former cop because he is working off the notion the victim is a career criminal and this time he will make sure he goes away forever.
Yes, that “thug” was put away forever by the cop’s mini-me son. He must be so proud.
I thought you were pro second amendment. I thought you didn’t like gun free zones. I thought you supported people being armed at school to prevent mass shootings.
Does an American become a “thug” when he ignores anti 2nd Amendment infringements while on campus? Does an American become a “thug” when he shoplifts? Or does that only happen when that American is black?
So when a white girl carries an AR-10 on campus it’s righteous and when a white boy steals a candy it’s no big deal? They would never be called a “thug” because they look like your daughter or your son, they look like you!
“JW… Can we please assume that the people we disagree with are making claims in good faith?”
No sir. I’ll make no such assumptions in evidence of the contrary.
“So when a white girl carries an AR-10 on campus it’s righteous…”
Oh, it’s righteous in the eyes of the law, unlike the burglar who was killed after attacking the man whose property he stole.
“… and when a white boy steals a candy it’s no big deal?”
“a candy”? Theft of a item worth less than dollar.
Have the boy return the item and apologize to the owner or cashier. Doubt if anyone is going to press charges over the crime, since the monetary value is so low.
Jwn, did you work for Ottie Adkins?
Its almost hilarious when you and Miner try to go at it, full on Battle of the Retards with Dual of the Fates in the background while you show off your absolute golf score IQ.
We have the video and the fact that they were not in hot pursuit of someone who had just committed a crime. They shot a man down who had been jogging and was surprised by being kidnapped by two rednecks with guns.
We don’t need the media for this.
… and you can provide evidence to exactly one of those assertions.
Horrific, That said, so are the deaths of police officers doing their duty, children caught in crossfire, and black on white deaths. All need protesting.
Wow, just how far did I have to read down before someone spoke with logic? Would you mind posting closer to the top next time. The fact is we don’t have all the facts yet. All we know is somebody is dead when in reality, probably no one should have died.
There does not seem to be video of a burglary but rather video of a possible trespass between two homes, one at least was under construction. No burglary or theft was reported.
These morons will fry for murder, and justifiably so.
I expect them to get away with it. Hope they don’t, but one fthe accused is a person of special favor and consideration among the local law enforcement community. The other accused is his son.
Therefore, they are predisposed to get away with murder.
GuyInWI says:
May 8, 2020 at 10:25
“Seriously are you even on the side of gun rights? You are as bad as Boch with the hatred for a certain race.”
GW- You got that right.
Painfully obvious.
Serge: I have a video of somebody stealing my bike from my house that looks like you. I’m coming over to your house and if you refuse to come with me I will shoot you. Case closed. Dumbass
Mark, If you actually do what you say you will do enjoy a long time in prison. What is worse, if you actually do what you have said you will do after you post it to social media, it won’t take a very long trial to find you guilty.
MAGA
He’s welcome to try… Claymore Roomba could use a workout.
Where is the wise cracking white trash that shows up every time there is a black perp? Looks like they are laying low for this one. A narrow minded bigot equates crime to skin color. Reality sets in when the perp from nowhere pops up and is the bigot’s own race. Unfortunately it’s a little too late for the bigot to realize the boogieman is never to be attributed one race.
As for the nitwits who took the law into their hands they are in deep, deep dodo. Chasing down a man who they “suspected is a thief” is bad enough. Pointing a firearm at the man gets worse. Buffoons set the stage for an “arrest” that turned into a homicide. A very, very bad idea that cost families much heartache and is going to cost two nitwits their freedom for a very long time.
I see pretty much everyone here condemning the stupid gunmen. The truth is, race should have nothing to do with this case other than the jogger supposedly matching a description of a previous burglary. The only other reason race should enter the conversation would be if the gunman has some sort of history where he is known to want to kill black people. That’s why the lynching talk from morons like Joe Biden needs to stop. They only talk like that in order to get votes / power.
I want to Jim Crow Gun Control Joe to continue talking about lynching. After all joe’s very own democrat party party owns the legacy of slavery, segregation, Jim Crow, the kkk, lynching, Eugenics, Gun Control and other race based atrocities. Every time joe plays the race card the response is to put the race card around joe’s democrat neck where it rightfully belongs. Otherwise useful idiots see The Party of Lincoln like joe and his history rewriting ilk want them to.
I see the party of Lincoln as the party that buried the corpse of the original Republic and took a dump on the grave. Mass immigration in the 1840’s is what killed the Republic. The Republicans started out as a progressive, big war, big government party and they have not changed since. At least the Democrats, up until the progressive, big government, big war Wilson, stood up for America and Americans. Now there is not a dime’s worth of difference between the two parties. Oh, they have a few different buzz words but that is only to keep their share of the sheep baaaing for a sheep dog to protect them. A pox upon both their houses.
Does it make me a bigot when we find that the few roving burglary crews in my city come from Compton, which is 35 miles away. Usually theses crimes involve 2 cars, with dealer plates – when the police catch the whole crew. These crews work the foothill communities of Los Angeles County, because that is where the newer big homes have been built and usually the homeowners are working professional jobs.
Does it also make me a bigot when I side with Zimmerman because he confronted Travon Martin inside his gated community because there had been many auto burglaries in the same community?
That being said, if the driver of the pickup, who had history with the jogger, had recognized him, had him on video in a recent burglary, and had him on video jogging through the neighborhood, really needed nothing else to present it to the DA………….
[Before I start my opinion is protected by our constitutions 1st amendment.]
If he would have just complied he would still be alive it has become a thing in the our communities to show your ass when a gun is pointed at you and it needs to stop, but honestly I don’t remember the last time I looked through people’s windows while on a run either. How come when a black person gets shot this happens black folks in outrage over a death of someone they didn’t even know. If a black man shot him this wouldn’t have happened but a whiteman shot him so. When a black man shoots a white man on video where are the crowd of black folks protesting then. Isn’t it funny how one side can be openly more racist than the other here is proof. It will never change because neither side wants it to and that’s crap. As far as this shooting I don’t know the facts and all those black people out there don’t either they just want to keep the racism going. Because if it were a black man shooting a white man, a black man shooting a black man or a white man shooting a white man they would have never left their houses. Neither party should have been where they were, but this is a tough time people are going to protect their neighborhood thats both black folks and white folks. I’m not white or black but you guys could stop making asses of yourselves that would be great. Our country needs us to be united because if we are united we are unstoppable. We live on one planet its time we became one people.
I couldn’t even read this all the way through. Obvious troll. Nobody it this stupid.
Black people complain when a black person shoots another black person if that black person is wearing a black uniform. They protest that regularly. You will hear, “Hands up, don’t shoot!”
Of course white men will ignore black people protesting black cops for shooting a black man. Even when their white wife is standing with the black people during the protest.
It’s hard to move on when European-Americans have been so brain washed into white supremacy from their parents and grandparents all their childhood.
Yeah… sorry… that “white supremacy” argument kinda died in November of 2008. So sorry.
But it’s back with vengeance under Trump and MAGA.
Sure is… Just look at what those Nigerians did to poor Juicy.
Come on now. Do you remember the synagogue and the Walmart shootings?
You mean when far left Trump haters went off of the rails? Yeah. How inconvenient for you.
If he had just complied, these gentlemen would have saved 3 valuable shotgun shells by hanging him from a nearby tree. There is exactly as much evidence for that statement as there is for yours.
Yeah… except for the stolen tools the ventilated scumbag was shitting all over the road.
Man, the son’s mother (father’s sister) will be sad that her boys are gonna be in jail indefinitely.
Clownshoes…. they can sit and rot.
It’s unfortunate the view swoops away from the scene at critical moments. I hope the father and son get a fair trial and justice is served no matter which way the verdict goes, unlike what George Zimmerman went thru.
It can be said the root causes of this incident are:
*state governments making it difficult or impossible for law-abiding citizens to use their 2A rights.
*state governments opening up their jails to free criminal thugs and endanger the population as a result.
*State, county & local law enforcement announcing that they will only pursue major crimes due to limited resources.
This happened months before the government put Americans under unlawful house arrest and freed criminals.
What I learned from this is that if you go jogging in GA you need to bring a Glock and when someone threatens you with a shotgun you need to neutralize the threat. I also learned not to play armed vigilante. This is a loose-loose. Very sad.
Minorities and women need to be armed even when jogging.
A white woman was raped and murdered when she was out for a routine jog. A man had been watching her during her regular jogs. One day he followed her in his vehicle. He tried to stop her to “talk.” He eventually threatened her with a knife, raped her, murdered her and hide her body from plain view.
Eventually the town found her and the man convicted. I think she was anti gun and so were her parents.
I would just say everyone. Men are more likely to be murdered than women. Surprisingly they’re actually more likely to be raped if you include prison.
Colion Noir did a great YouTube video that perfectly sums up where I am at on this particular case, take the time to watch it.
This is a nice video for gun owners and NRA members to watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcnf8c8HTqA
Video looks about as bad as it realistically could. But the video is not all the facts pertaining to the situation.
Based on the reporting I’m guessing this one will go to a jury. I’ll wait and see what evidence they see and how they weigh it.
Regardless of how this shakes out legally there was a whole heap o’ stupid going on here.
“Video looks about as bad as it realistically could. But the video is not all the facts pertaining to the situation.”
The video looks like a criminal ran around a truck and started grappling with a man on the other side.
You need to watch with the volume up. Between his going around the truck and his grappling with someone, is the sound of a gunshot. He was shot with a shotgun at close range and for no reason, and responded by trying to survive, the evil bastard. What was he thinking?
Larry
Man you got this one all wrong. The 1st shot occurs after the runner turns left, charging the gunman and is engaged in front of the left front headlight.
I hate watching it because I’m watching a young man die and another’s life probably ruined but I have watched it over and over because I want to be sure I’m right. Don’t know how else to say it, you’re just wrong this time.
So e people on this comment section are out of their damn minds to believe this shooting was in any way justifiable or defensive. Those two guy went looking for a fight without any provocation other than Mr. Arbery “look-a like-a man” that may have burglarized a home under construction. There is no justification for their behavior and subsequent actions resulting in Mr. Arbery’s murder.
I am not prepared to kill someone for a property crime, things can be replaced, people and living with your actions cannot. Defense of life is another issue. Even then, the emotional, physical, financial, perception repercussions are devastating. I hope these two serve a long, long time in prison.
Someone should point out that McMichaels and at least 1 other witness at the time of the shooting allege the deceased rushed and engaged McMichaels, grabbing the gun and starting a life and death struggle. Don’t know if that’s true or not, but if the deceased initiated the contact, that is at a bare minimum a hugely mitigating factor.
He initiated the contact? What are you huffing?
That’s according to the police report, the McMichaels and a witness. As I said, I wasn’t there, don’t know.
See the linked article above at nyt.com
I was told this was a lynching. Do lynchers usually wait for the lychee to lunge for them? Seriously though, the most important second of the video is obscured by the truck. Either way, it was stupid to confront that kid like that.
That witness was actually part of the group. They are likely going to not charge him and use him as a witness to convict the two for at least manslaughter.
At most manslaughter. If the racebaiters get their way and these guys get charged with capital murder, they’ll walk.
A man brandishing a shotgun has chased you in a truck, attempting to stop you twice. He gets out of the truck with the shotgun. Your choices are 1) Run away and hope you can run faster that that slug or load of buckshot before it hits you in the back. 2) Attempt to fight for your life.
Which option do you choose?
Depends… have I been robbing the man’s neighbors?
“Someone should point out that McMichaels and at least 1 other witness at the time of the shooting allege the deceased rushed and engaged McMichaels, grabbing the gun and starting a life and death struggle.”
Alleged? It was video. Here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIve50vSeLQ&bpctr=1588976057
At 0:05 the soon to be dead burglar is running behind the truck.
At 0:11 the burglar starts to run around the right side of the truck
At 0:16 the burglar has run around the truck and has started grappling with Greg McMichael, who was standing on the left hand side of the truck the whole time
So, the dead burglar did in fact rush and engage Greg McMichaels, unless my eyes are lying.
You are two days out of date.
Your eyes aren’t the problem. Just before the grappling (around 0:14) is the sound of a gunshot, which changes your presumptions into nonsense.
Not really, no. The self-defense statutes in Georgia, like in most places, remove it as a justification if the act takes place during the commission of a crime. If prosecutors establish the detention as illegal, then who started the confrontation over the shotgun is irrelevant, the shooting cannot have been in self-defense. Furthermore, since they caused his death during the commission of a felony, they automatically committed murder, no showing of intent required.
There was no detention. If they had actually detained him, you might have a case. Instead, the felon in question decided to let fisticuffs settle this and found out that shotgun beats fist.
Especially if you make that decision after being already shot.
Pretty sure he charged the car before being shit old man. Getting a little shaky on the timeline of a 30 second clip? Really?
Let all the facts and evidence come out!
“Bonfire of the Vanities” by Tom Wolfe.
It looks like this will be a classic case of the premise of the Tom Wolfe novel…
I’m an American. When native born Americans have non-traditional first names I kinda lose interest in what happens to them.
Turns out the victim was a turd. Self defense.
https://nypost.com/2020/a05/08/father-of-georgia-shooter-had-investigated-ahmaud-arbery/
I just came for the comments. I made extra butter for the popcorn and this one did not disappoint
Putting yourself in the same position as the deceased, staring at the business end of a shotgun I wouldn’t have tried to disarm him but rather cool the situation by saying, Ok .. you got me…I give up, call the police.
Curious, are you black? Usually when a black person is staring down a barrel of a gun there is a little bit of life left. Granted, if this is a cop pointing a gun a you, you’re screwed and should never grab for it, and if they want to shoot you anyways they will most likely get away with it. But, in this case, it’s a couple of vigilante hillbillies taking the law into their own hands. That being said, as a white dude, I would not have grabbed for the gun, although if I was carrying at the time, I would have put both of these fools down or died trying.
… and if you did, you would be guilty of 1st degree murder as you have no right to use deadly force to resist a lawful citizen’s arrest.
No low wattage, he would be justified in defending himself from two armed thugs who were trying to, at a minimum, kidnap him and who knows what else (dueling banjo’s music in the background). And I think it’s time for you to take a break – your mom is calling you up from her basement for dinner. As to the two perps here, I feel a little sorry for the boy – he was presumably raised by his father after all. And dad forgot he turned in his badge a year ago.
lol, “low wattage” so appropriate. He means that a black guy shouldn’t be allowed to shoot white people regardless of the circumstances, which is riddled throughout this thread. His logic, if you can call it that, is lopsided towards apologist for any white person with a gun and a “feel’n about that boy” as good enough. I wish the guy would have had a Glock on him and shot them dead, would be a more interesting thread.
Hey OldMexico… the 1960s called, they want their stereotypes back.
“grabbed guns and began a pursuit in a pickup truck.” And that right there was the first mistake. Why not call 911 first and if they really thought they needed to get involved, then follow the guy and keep him in sight until the police arrived? It’s not as if Brunswick doesn’t have a police department. Even if the victim were to turn out to be the one caught on a security camera, what these two idiots did was utterly stupid. There are any number of ways this could have been handled with no harm coming to anyone and this duo managed to avoid all of them.
It’s the “get some” mentality.
Doesn’t mean they broke the law.
So they killed someone with no rational basis for doing so. Big deal. Cops do the same thing all the time and many of the klansmen here kiss their asses for it. Why should this situation be any different? I mean, really, what’s one more dead black guy in the cosmic scheme?
Yeah. Let’s ignore the fact that the original DA yeeted this case into the dumpster and only recused himself because of a three degree of separation relationship with the accused. (I can draw three degrees of separation between myself and Donald Trump.)
Stupidity is not a criminal act. In Georgia, according to the above DA, what they did was perfectly legal.
The GBI stepped in and took over the case. Having lived and been stationed in GA I can tell you that the GBI, much like SLED, will investigate all aspects of this.
There will be some hard internal questions asked in the Judiciary dept that those DAs belong to, probably already being investigated as well.
The original DA in this case, Jackie Johnson, has made many very questionable decisions over the years, including this case, based on protecting cops and ex-cops in particular.
https://www.ajc.com/news/local/torpy-large-something-stinks-brunswick-and-ain-paper-mills/kHAdn8AY94VuWMEGWrEb4I/
https://www.ajc.com/news/crime–law/kept-key-witness-from-testifying-killer-cop-bond-hearing/dWLrkB7PAnMcTZfBumV0UM/
One problem jackass. Jackie Johnson wasn’t the original DA on the case. George E . Barnhill was.
https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/6916-george-barnhill-letter-to-glyn/b52fa09cdc974b970b79/optimized/full.pdf#page=1
If you want to see how corrupt the average DA is, go look at California or Texas.
#notanargument Demonstrate concrete evidence of corruption by the DA I cited or sit down.
If stupidity was a criminal act, you would be hauled away. Be thankful. 🙂
“So they killed someone with no rational basis for doing so.
Except for, you know, the whole grappling for the ex-cop’s shotgun and the punch to head of said ex-cop, no rational basis at all.
Irrelevant. They themselves were in the process of committing a felony. If that is established, self-defense will not apply, and they will be guilty of murder via the felony murder statute.
If prosecutors knock down that one domino, things get extremely bad for these guys.
The standard for a fleeing felon is reasonable suspicion. That’s an easy bar to meet given that the father was aware of the dirtbag’s previous felony history and could almost certainly ID him as the guy on the surveillance tape.
I am a gun owner. I am white. This is disturbing and should have never happened. Reading the Georgia statute, it states “immediate” as the key word. These people acted on a video, from days before, so not immediate. Further, even if they thought he was the one that did the crime, why not tail him and call the cops? Why? Because some white dudes, like these asshats, feel big and important with guns and in “the name” of supporting of the 2nd amendment (which I totally support) they believe it gives them special rights to act like vigilante asshats. This does a couple of things. It furthers the stereotypes that all white people with guns are like this (NOOOOOTTTTTTTT), and it lends credence to the fact that if you doing anything while black you are a target for a nutter, which sadly is proven to be true too often. Also, pwrserge you should change your name to lowwattage, to more accurately reflect the power of your arguments. Pretending as though there hasn’t been 70 years of black people being chased down and killed for any BS reason is just disingenuous. Bringing in the word “blactivist” says more about you than supporting your argument. These idiots felt “entitled” to take the law into their own hands because they are white, privileged, and personally connected with the very people responsible with reviewing the incident. It wasn’t until a video surfaced “in public” (as in, this video was seen prior by law enforcement), then they would not have been arrested. I am sick of psycho asshats undermining law abiding gun owners, of any color, and making us all less safe. They should be thrown in jail for life, then maybe next time it will discourage other Ramboneheads from taking the law into their own hands, when a simple phone call to the police would have done the trick if they were so certain they located a criminal.
Today, a black man is ten times more likely to kill a white man than the other way around. Please join the rest of us in the 21st century.
I think you mean join you in 1950, no thanks. As I said, your ignorance, racism, and obvious hostility towards black people is pretty easy to see, and your arguments are moronic at best. People like you give every white person in America a bad name. Some of us are actually “American” and believe that the protections afforded by the Constitution, Amendments, Bill of Rights, etc., apply to all of us, not just beer gut white dudes that wear baseball caps and take the law into their own hands.
Yeah… Sorry racist, the lynch mobs you bitch about haven’t existed for the entirety of my lifespan. The race card got overdrawn about 12 years ago.
OLD MEXICO, do you work for the southern poverty law center?
Even so, this is clearly a murder. These are the types of douchebags that make us all look bad, they think that they are cops or have fantasies of chasing down bad people and arresting them. In reality they are all just racist pricks who feel victimized and weak, mostly because they are weak. Pretty much what a lot of leftists accuse the right of, weak people who needs guns to feel powerful.
Yeah… it’s not like one of the guys had previously investigated the thug in question for violating his parole… Oh… wait… That would drop the chances of a mistaken identity down to right around 0.
“Today, a black man is ten times more likely to kill a white man than the other way around”
If we look at the entire history of the United States, far more black men have been maimed and killed by white men over the lifespan of this country. White men enslaved literally millions of black people, and maimed, raped and killed them by the thousands with no consequence whatsoever.
I understand you want to focus on just the last few decades because it supports your twisted narrative, but America is the sum total of the hundreds of years of our existence.
Yeah… not how policy works kiddo. What happened in the past is not my problem or my responsibility.
More like power temp, as in he’s missing a leg. Been watching him trying to stand and flopping all over this today.
Yeah… funny har har… my mangled leg got to be that way defending your freedom. You’re welcome.
So when did you serve and what branch and your MOS? Since you are fluent in so many languages I’m sure you know that you just insinuated you spent time in the military.
1371, USMC as for when, let’s say more than one decade less than three ago.
pwrserge, so you are 9 years old or so? I guess that would make more sense since you sound like an ignorant idiot. There are so many examples to choose from to prove you wrong, but here are a couple of douchebags that at least got caught, and one of them was put to death. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-texas-execution/white-supremacist-executed-in-texas-for-dragging-death-of-black-man-idUSKCN1S01BY
You might want to read your own source fucktard. The crime occurred in 1998… and was hardly a lynch mob.
Lol, first off, fuck you asshole. Secondly, you were acting like racism doesn’t exist and basically saying meh to decades of black people being wiped out for NO reason at all other than for getting the rocks off for some insecure pathetic excuses for human beings, who also happened to be white (over and over again, haven’t seen the Asians lynching blacks, just whites). So, sorry that rubbing poop in your nose to try to make a point, that racism and killing is alive and well in America made you so butt hurt (sorry, not sorry).
You’d have an argument if Obama was never president.
Obama being elected is not equivalence, at all. But perhaps that is all you can understand, oversimplified comments so you don’t develop a headache because the world is a bit more complex.
mexico, you full of utter BS.
Took the GBI less than two days to decide to arrest the two assailants, after being sent there by Republican governor Brian Kemp, who appeared in some of his campaign ads carrying a gun.
https://www.ajc.com/news/local/watch-gbi-updates-following-arrests-ahmaud-arbery-shooting/
Yeah… the racist lynch mob got their pound of flesh. I think a Zimmerman outcome is more than likely.
You have no idea what you are talking about, but you do talk a lot
I know enough to read the available information on the case and actually look up the primary source document that explained the original DA’s decision to decline prosecution. I’ve linked said document at least a dozen times today. You might want to read it before you sound more like a retard.
https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/6916-george-barnhill-letter-to-glyn/b52fa09cdc974b970b79/optimized/full.pdf#page=1
and you do Herr Corlin?
Because the crimes committed were clearly evident to all but the local yokels, with their ties to the perps.
What “ties”? I have closer ties to Trump than the DA did to the suspects.
Well, I can’t speak to you and President Trump, but their ties were close enough for them to recuse themselves. Of course, that was only after saying there wasn’t enough for an arrest. Uh, if there’s a potential conflict of interest that prevents you from doing your job, it should prevent you from doing all of your job, including making decisions on arrest. I have to wonder about the relationship between the local cops and the DA – do they always wait for the DA to approve an arrest? Kinda doubt it. In this case probably only because dad had worked for the DA. Anyone else would have been arrested at the scene.
Except the dad did not work for the DA who cleared him. Go read the letter I cited. It goes over the “conflicts” in detail.
No, that DA’s kid worked for the local DA who first recused herself. Which is why he eventually also recused himself. Again, if there are grounds to recuse oneself, do it up front before you make any such declarations. Or else it’s “I may have a conflict of interest so I’m backing out, but before I do I’ll issue this statement”. Statement is not worth the paper it is printed on since he acknowledged a conflict of interest by recusing himself.
You’re right. His kid working for another DA is not grounds for recusal.
Apparently the DA thought it was.
Serge thinks that the State of Michigan was only stopped from running the demonstrators over with tanks by the presence of the intrepid riflemen protecting them. Enough said.
Yeah… that’s completely a rational paraphrasing of what I said… No hyperbole or exaggeration there at all. /sarc
tdiinva, SIP and fix your panties.
“The runner attempts to pass the pickup on the passenger side, moving just beyond the truck, briefly outside the camera’s view. A gunshot sounds, and the video shows the runner grappling with a man over what appears to be a shotgun or rifle.”
This is, at best, a half truth! The runner clearly turns left after passing the truck and engages the gunman. The position of his arms indicates that the gun was pointed down when he grabbed it. Can someone post a decent quality slo-mo of the part where the runner passes the truck? It’s pretty clear to me.
But then the source is AP, let’s not have them ever report the whole truth, that would be too much to bear.
The pathetic reality here on TTAG is that the white guy posting up crap defending the father/son redneck team would be, literally, up in arms if the story was about a white guy being gunned by two black guys.
You’re making a lot of assumptions there bucko. Betcha you wouldn’t be able to identify me as “white” in a photo array.
Aren’t you a Russian? Didn’t you say you came from a proud white family from the communist days? Didn’t you call yourself a white male?
Are you some weeb kid who’s not even American?
Russia is a country AND an ethnicity. I have spent maybe a month in the country over the course of my entire life and I’m pretty sure I mentioned the fact that I don’t tan, I turn full blown Tatar.
So… white.
Yeah… and Zimmerman was a “white” hispanic, whatever the hell that means.
Hell I’m white and guaranteed to get special attention in the airport.
Not all whites have pasty skin.
ptm, is a racist.
Why would he run towards the truck, then around it leisurely if he knew they were after him? He would of turned and bolted in the other direction!
Guns don’t make people smart, they increases their stupidity!
He did. They kept chasing him. He eventually realized he can’t outrun two trucks and bullets. They were not going to leave him alone. He decided after having guns pointed at him, and failing at getting away on foot, he had to fight the people with guns threatening him.
It turns out the father knew of the young man from his time working a case a year prior to his retirement from the government. The father is the one that got his son to grab the guns and help him catch Arbery. The 3 men assumed he was committing crimes because he shoplifted in the past and someone claimed he looked at a property under construction.
It’s the whole “once a thug, always a thug” concept. The notion all “young black males are good for nothing thugs.” I’m sure they joked “he was going to doctor school.”
Local news site just had a story posted about the local sheriff looking for a suspect.
The video still is well lit and surprisingly good for a surveillance camera. If he was not wearing the same clothes, would you be able to pick this guy out if he was jogging past your house?
http://www.westkentuckystar.com/getmedia/5f81025e-a438-4333-b4b8-40e10b0bb886/WestKentuckyStar.aspx?maxsidesize=800
Skinny white dude with a beard. How many of those do you pass each day?
Did I previously investigate said suspect for breaking parole? Because then I might be able to recognize him a bit better.
pwrserge looks to be correct.
Some of you had your arguements completely debunked by the links provided by pwrserge.
Will be interesting how this ends.
Funny how the big time state investigators found enough evidence to charge them with murder and arrest them. Now the jury, lawyers and judge have to debunk the arguments in court.
You mean how they “found” enough evidence to charge Mike Flyn? How did that work out?
I can charge a ham sandwich.
“Funny how the big time state investigators found enough evidence to charge them with murder and arrest them.”
Yes, just like George Zimmerman.
I don’t know if I’m right. I just know that we are not at the “these guys lynched a guy in broad daylight” stage. There is enough shit in this case that it can go either way. The reality, however, is that the Twitter lynch mob is not going to serve justice. Pretending that we know everything about this case just because the races of the people involved fit our stereotypes is ignorant and irresponsible.
Serge – Wow. You actually made a sensible post. If you had started with this one it would have saved a lot of keyboard time – for you and others. It would have been great if this story had been presented without any mention of race for any of the parties involved. Wouldn’t have so much “young black man must be a thug” or “old white guy must be KKK” crap to work around. I do think given the history of all involved having it sorted out at the state level instead of local/county level is good. And would feel the same way if it was NYC, LA or Podunkville Utah. Too much local history involved. Do wonder why it took so long to get GBI involved.
You trolling so hard you have to have conversations with yourself? lol. Sad bruh.
Rattler, well said.
“Fact is that there is already information released that shows this “kid” has a pretty long rap sheet. Add to that that HE attacked the guy in front of the pick up truck when he simply could have stopped running and talked. problem is that blacks NEVER respond in a civil manner, even when they are not guilty. Call it racist, call it bigotry, I don’t care, facts are facts.”
The two men and a truck, should have stayed within and
trailed the so-called “jogger” until the arrival of the loggers.
Have you always been a prejudiced bigot or are you a recent convert?
GS, please consult your local dickionary as your
assessment is rather ignorant
Pwrserge is a bad shoot waiting to happen. He doesn’t have the instincts To be a good guy with a gun.
Yea we already know that.
At some point pwrserge’s posts will end and we will read about a bad shoot a week later. If we are lucky they won’t connect him to TTAG as well.
My niece made an interesting comment:
Remember they didn’t arrest them because *they* saw the video but because *we* saw the video.
avatar Miner49er says:
May 8, 2020 at 11:21
You know, when regular citizens think about gun owners, many of them think of folks like Serge
You, San fran 9, mentioned agent provocateur, was it for yourself?
No, I’m just making an observation and drawing a conclusion from Sergei’s comments.
As others have observed, he’s a bad shoe just waiting to happen.
Murder..pure and simple, absolutely no justification.
thank you judge locus.
My aren’t you the wise smart one.
Hans the Troll
I only troll when fishing. I would not troll for a bottom
feeder like you, GS. [government service]
Bait is to expensive, now a days.
Wow look at the activity on these comment sections. You know, even as a civilian attempting to detain someone while brandishing, it’s kidnapping. All across the border there are similar cases, and everyone ends the same. This is murder. Stop using it to justify your racism.
Thanks for proving you know jack shit about criminal law by making blanket statements.
there are a lot of meth sales in Montana.
Hans pretty much all your statements as far back as I have seen you on these forums well before this case represent racism. Please, if anyone is contributing to meth sales, it’s your ilk.
please educate us with your extensive background in criminology. Are you denying that detaining someone under gun point is not kidnapping? Please give me a reason to prove you wrong. Don’t talk about blanket statements… you have your fair share. Besides, is it really a blanket statement, or you just did not care to research it? Why does someone always have to provide you with resources? Are you a capable adult, or do you only care about evidence that benefits your agenda? I think we already know the answer there, bucko.
How about the letter from the DA I cited no less than a dozen times? That work for you?
It sure looks like 2 men taking the law into their own hands and murdering an unarmed man! They should have called the cops and just followed him!
“It sure looks like 2 men taking the law into their own hands and murdering an unarmed man!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIve50vSeLQ&bpctr=1588976057
Sure looks like a burglar ran around a truck and started trying to wrest a shotgun away from the owner, and punching the owner to boot. It’s murder he says!
no billy, he had two arms.
This was premeditated murder. An innocent man was murdered because of his skin color. I am ashamed of my race. Fifty years ago I served alongside many black men, and found them as brave in war fighting as any white man.
This is one of the ugly truths about guns: people filled with irrational hatred kill our fellow American citizens.
“no shit, there I was”
“This was premeditated murder.”
“premeditated”. The burglar ran around the truck and started grappling for a shotgun with its owner, and punching said owner.
“An innocent man was murdered because of his skin color.”
But not for attacking a man and trying to wrest away his shotgun.
“I am ashamed of my race.”
Ok cuck
“Fifty years ago I served alongside many black men, and found them as brave in war fighting as any white man.”
Brave enough to charge an armed victim with no weapon in hand, as the video showed.
“This is one of the ugly truths about guns: people filled with irrational hatred kill our fellow American citizens.”
In the video, one of them tried to steal a shotgun away from his victim and murder him with it.
well said, Mr Fleas. i think doc was using the prison library pc.
Prosecutors don’t need to prove anything about anyone’s state of mind. All they need to establish is the detention was unlawful. If that’s the case, then they were committing a felony when Arbery died, they cannot use self-defense as a justification for the shooting, and his death is murder.
If I were in their shoes, I would be extremely worried.
And since the odds are they will offer a deal to the cameraman things might be grim for the father and son.
powertemp will still be rooting for them
You are a pusillanimous POS for calling me a “cuck” anonymously. I know you wouldn’t say it to my face. I may be old but I am a tough old buzzard and well armed.
If you ever make it to the State of Jefferson come by and say “hey”
If you closely examine the “grappling” frames, you will discover the joggers shirt front is drenched with blood, since he was hit with a shotgun blast seconds earlier. How DARE he make that poor cracker waste another shot on him!
dock 86, speak for yourself.
I agree it was what you say it was, but “I am ashamed of my race”? Shut the fuck up. That is the most naive immature shit someone can say.
I always go jogging Through the neighborhood in my Timberland work boots.. try that on for size!
Bad shoot and dumb decisions…. And I’m from Chicago!
For those of you calling for a lynch mob… Just consider the fact that you’re on the same side as Shaun “we wuz” King[s]… You know, the guy making lynch mob threats against the suspects and their families as well as outright terrorist threats against the state of Georgia on social media. Any time you find yourself on the same side as the Imperial Grand Wizard of the Kang KK, you might want to reevaluate your life choices.
The only thing you KNOW is what you saw on a completely out of context grainy 30 second cellphone video. Everything else, unless you bothered looking at primary sources, is what you were TOLD. Do we need to bring up the incident around the Covington kids from last year?
Shaun “Talcum X” King? Isn’t he a full blooded white man pretending to be black so he can race bait a war between black and white Americans for his socialist agenda? That’s what I hear from black men.
Yup… My Cossack / Tatar mutt ass is black than Shaun King.
I generally set my moral compass as opposing anything he supports. It’s a good starting point.
Cool story bro. But not even close to factual comparing the two. Your assumption that because we see murder here is that we see murder in the zimmerman case too… and that is also not true for most of us. It’s okay to be butthurt, just stop creating new rants and own it. Get over it. Fucken cry baby.
There is such a thing as a citizen’s arrest. But the law is fraught with nuance and that’s why some dumb hicks in a pickup truck probably shouldn’t decide to chase a guy down the street because they think he’s a burglar.
A citizen cannot, for example, merely detain someone because they suspect him of being a burglar, like a police officer can. They require enough evidence to arrest from the get-go. And if they are determined not to have such evidence, they had just committed kidnapping- or muder, in this case.
A citizen also may NOT arrest someone for a crime, EVEN IF THEY HAVE PROBABLE CAUSE, if it was not committed in their presence or “immediate knowledge” (see: § 17-4-60 – Grounds for arrest). What does “immediate knowledge” mean? I know what it means for the jurisdictions I’ve worked in (and this situation would NOT apply) but I can’t say for sure in Georgia. And unless you have spoken to a lawyer about this issue you would be a damn fool for trying to citizen-arrest someone under that phrase.
There’s a reason that citizen-arrest laws are strict- to prevent just this sort of insanity. Imagine you’re jogging down the road and you hear a pickup truck sliding to a halt behind you. Imagine you’re black. Fat old white bubba one gets out with a shotgun and charges at you. Fat bubba two is in the pickup truck waving a pistol around. Neither one is in any uniform, has any sign that they have the legal right to stop you for anything. Are you going to submit to their “Arrest”? It’s bad enough if it’s the police; you can hope that you’ll get your day in court if they’re wrong. But when two fat hicks charge at you with guns there’s no reason to think they’re not going to murder you and leave you in a ditch… which is exactly what they did.
I guess that’s a reason to carry while jogging. It’s too bad these idiots didn’t get smoked.
Yes, exactly. From the skimming I’ve done in Georgia statutes, the felony murder charge is absolutely appropriate, and designed to be extremely hard to escape. It’s a very straightforward task for the prosecutors: simply prove they were in violation of the False Imprisonment statute. If they can do that, everything else, including the murder conviction, false into place.
The standard for detaining a fleeing felon is reasonable suspicion. The father saw the tapes and could easily ID the perp given their prior contact. If you try to bootstrap felony murder on that bullshit, you’re delusional.
“reasonable” is a very loose term and left to speculation. Are you forgetting that can be conversed in a court of law and instead using it to justify your own point of view? Also, keep in mind that detaining someone at gunpoint can be a VERY long process. How long do you think it would have taken for police to arrive here? Lastly, would you deny that doing so leaves a lot of room for these two men to make sure they would not be seen as guilty? Do you honestly believe that was their intention in the first place? No. These would be vigilantes made some very poor decisions in an attempt to “do the right thing” regardless of the race baiting, regardless of previously committed crimes, especially the alleged ones. In most states, the law defines a citizen’s arrest as legal only if you are the owner of the property. So tell me again, how I lack the “criminal law” history as you so put it (btw, it’s called criminology).
Actually, it’s not. Criminology is the (generally undergraduate) science of the behavior and the statistics, not the underlying statutes. Criminal law (generally covered in Law School) covers actual statutes, which, if you read the ones for Georgia, which I cited, you might sound like less of a retard.
All they needed was reasonable suspicion to detain. The reasonableness of their suspicions, must be assessed from what they knew at the time. I’d say, that, objectively, it’s 50/50 at worst. Stupid? Yes. Criminal? Not if you read the law rationally and leave your racism at the door.
False imprisonment requires a demonstrable confinement according to GA case law. That’s going to be difficult to prove on an open street. They are bootstrapping and they know they are bootstrapping.
I listen to a lot of white men talk. I deciphered their slang. They can’t say the “N word” these days, but they can say “thug” without issue. Only black people are allowed — by the online censors — to say “nigger” or “nigga.” White people are also not allowed to use “negro.”
I find it interesting how it’s always the alleged “anti-racists” who hear all the supposed “dog whistles”… Maybe it’s you who’s racist and not all the normal people around you?
I don’t refer to black people as “thugs.”
I refer to thugs as thugs, black or otherwise. You’re the one who’s assuming a level of exclusivity that does not exist.
Chef Censor, your statement is nonsense and contemptible, as
specious. You are, however, very qualified to write for the New Yorker,
Vox, Slate, et al. I would add, that colleges around the nation would
offer you a professorship, in a variety of disciples.
oh zip it already. Your stance could not be any more biased if you tried. At least Serge makes some points every now and then…
I got a nickel says Charles Payne or Ben Carson do not get called “thugs” very often. Hell, I doubt Barry Osama gets called a “thug” very often. IOW, you’re full of shit.
I haven’t found the burglary video, if it exists and I doubt at this point it does, it should have been presented. It may have existed, and it could have been “lost” because it didn’t show what was claimed? I don’t know, just suspicious about motives here.
The optics really suck here. Hopefully the GBI can do a good investigation and get the facts out.
Let what happened there be a lesson learned. If you have a video of a burglary, file a report and copy the video for the police.
If you see who you suspect of committing the crime later, call the police. Don’t gun up and give chase.
It was a property crime they claim he committed, not a forcible felony. In the light of what he was suspected of doing, they were wrong no matter how you twist the statute.
Residential burglaries are felonies under Georgia statute.
ok. so prove he did any.
How about the videos these guys got from their neighbor and referred to by the previous riding DA?
There is no such video.
According to CNN? Yeah… ok boomer.
There is vast difference between a forcible felony and alleged burglary. One felony is non violent.
These two with the evidence we have, and yes I read your sources, does not justify chasing him down lock and loaded.
Legally, as far as arrest standards go, a felony is a felony.
A ding dang doo…
I spent 45 mins trying to type with my thumbs on this tiny phone that constantly changes my spelling and words about an identification of a “minority” criminal that was at large for two days tripping on LSD that our boy scout troop help capture and identify up in Peters Creek, AK around 1977’ish. The state troopers and game wardens up there dont f### around, let me tell you. They cant afford too, but it was handled very well.
But it disappeared, so I must have bumped the wrong button again.
Oh well..
Maybe another time.
Good points here though.
Just who is that took the LSD?
Durp..
The criminal that was running around in the woods nude and crapping on picnic tables in the park during the day.
That should clear it up?
As a black gun owner I have jogged in many all white neighborhoods across the country. The U S Army sent me to many places. I wore my army PT uniform when I was running. I was never troubled by anyone. And I got a few smiles and hand waves along the way.
The white liberals on TTAG have nothing to say about the “murder factories” of Baltimore, Detroit, or Chiraq.
And white liberals are very much against a law abiding black person getting a gun or a carry permit.
White liberals are no friends of blacks. Anti gun white liberals are as racist as they claim President Reagan was. They support his Mulford Act.
The former Governor of Texas shot a rabbid wild animal while jogging. So can you. At least in a free state.
There are several options out there for EDC while jogging. You should be armed when you work out. I notice the liberals on TTAG aren’t saying this black victim should have carried a gun and shot back at these two white attackers.
These two shooters need to be able to articulate why they shot someone.
ESPECIALLY when the person is running away from them. And unarmed.
Chris, a most excellent post. BTW, they are not liberal
posters, whom one can have a reasonable debate but
leftist, who are subject and emotional.
lol get real. literally the same thing. Liberal = left (or left leaning if you must).
and, not on their personal property.
He was not running away from them. Look at the video. He charged a man with a shotgun.
Listen to the video. That was after he had been shot.
Take a closer look at the video. Pay close attention to the things that are in the road at the beginning. This is clear cut self defense during a lawful citizens arrest. I had my doubts, but then I saw the random tools strewn all over the road.
Most likely you would consider me a white liberal, because I think women should do wtf they want with their bodies, I think people of every color should actually have a fair shake, but, I also own guns and think that anyone should have the right to carry and yes, if he was carrying he should have shot those asshats dead in “self defense.” It’s ridiculous that some are casting the guy with the shotgun as acting in self defense when clearly they chased him down in pickup trucks, and the reason was hardly “immediate” or “in hot pursuit.” Paleeze. Also, I think if he could have grabbed the shotgun away, I think he was within his rights to shoot them both dead. End. Of. Story. The reality is, people don’t actually fit in only two boxes, “left” or “right” – that is too simplistic and hardly reality, but it does frustrate people that don’t like shades of gray. I hate being categorized, just because I’m white. I would imagine you feel the same. Political leanings are not different.
He was carrying tools he had stolen from the construction site and started dropping them all over the road as you can see in the video. How much more immediate do you want?
Oh, and the baby is not the woman’s body. That’s called murder.
So let’s be clear here – if I have a gun and a man comes along and attempts to wrestle the gun away from me I better just give it to him – is that the consensus here? Because if the gun goes off it would be a lynching?
Which of you has a nice Wilson Combat 1911 for me to take?
you can try… but I don’t think I’d terrorize and follow you to begin with, or cut you off and ambush you, or allow you to get close enough so you can defend yourself by grabbing it.
See how that works?
I heard some more information.
In January, the father left the son’s handgun in their unlocked truck, when the son went to get his gun it was gone. The son reported the stolen handgun. That was the robbery they were claiming occurred in their neighborhood. They said they believed Arbery had a gun because he had his hands in his shorts days prior (they believed he stole their handgun). The father saw Arbery running through the neighborhood and says he believed Arbery just committed another robbery. The father told his son to grab the guns because Arbery is outside. After the son intercepted Arbery and killed him, the father checked Arbery for the gun, they did not find their stolen gun on Arbery.
Their buddy claims there was an ongoing problem in the neighborhood with Arbery being caught on video trespassing at the construction site. The buddy said he saw Arbery running through the neighborhood again. The owner of the construction site said Arbery was on his property before and he has video footage to prove that, however, he said Arbery was only trespassing and he will not release the video.
They lynched this black man because they believed he stole their handgun out of their truck. The father already knew Arbery had carried a handgun into a gun free zone when he was 19, that Arbery had been on probation for that conviction when he stole from a Walmart years ago.
The buddy also assumed Arbery was committing robberies because he kept visiting a construction site.
These white men thought the black man, that runs through their neighborhood, was a criminal without evidence of anything more than trespassing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jK83dccqdhQ
Why would Arbery continue to visit a construction site? He was studying to be an electrician.
Learning and more on the job. He must have left his
tool kit behind.
Pretty sure that if you’re sneaking into a construction site without permission you’re not there studying to be anything other than a better criminal.
In America people visit new homes being built out of curiosity. This is not abnormal. They even have “open house” for people to look at the property on their own.
I have been to these new construction sites myself and I have been to open houses too. It’s feels good to walk into a nice new home and imagine being able to live there.
When I was young I was very curious about how they build new houses. They don’t allow you to be on a construction site as a kid especially an active one. But young people don’t always follow the rules.
Apparently your childhood sucked. I played hide and seek around the neighborhood… sometimes the best spots were in the unfinished houses. I’ve also visited some as an adult. Still, not a criminal (unless you ask the government).
Pretty sure that at this guy’s age, the only hide and seek he was playing was with his dealer looking for his money.
Once you have a prior felony conviction and then violate the parole for that conviction, any benefit of the doubt you got disappears.
Also… using the lame stream media as a source rather than primary sources… classy. I’m sure there was no doctoring of the tapes going on like with Zimmerman.
I used the police reports, the 911 audio and the suspects own video. Even some of the autopsy data.
They have yet to tell you what I just did. The GBI are withholding that story until they get to a court or feel they have a done deal.
You used jack shit. I cited a primary source, you cited a commie propaganda outlet.
give up chief, powertemp is a keyboard warrior. No winning against one of them in their mind.
If *any* of that is true, they are well and truly fucked, and they should be.
I have to begin to wonder about management reason for this thread.
The writer was a “TTAG Contributor” whom wish to remind unnamed.
358 posts and a badly needed bump in Alex ratings? I can not
remember the last time, if ever, there was an article of a “questionable”
shooting of a beige person, by a minority.
Perhaps, TTAG, is merely stirring the pot? Anymore of these type of slanted
“journalism” by no name contributors and I shall take flight.
We have all been snookered by management and owners of this firearm
site, with bias and hype article to attract the fringe gun haters.
Maybe, Mikey Bloombag, would pay a princely sum to get rid of a pro-gun
website. He can be reached at [email protected].
Good point!
You mean an article meant to attract viewers? NO WAY!
Fucken genius.
Yeah, god forbid they cite a reputable news source and not the fucking AP.
I’m with the “good idea to be an armed jogger” crowd… these two beer-gut wearing hillbillies, needed to be culled from the herd…How dare that black boy jog through our neighborhood…
Apparently being racist against white guys is ok, but god help you if you suspect that a previously convicted felon might be back to being a felon.
So you support Joe Biden? You hate the 2nd Amendment?
When did trespassing become a felony?
He also thinks because he is slavic he is not classified as white. It’s a skin tone. And since he has an instagram account, you can be the judge of his skin tone.
When you take stuff from the place you’re trespassing.
got proof of that powertemp?
I keep hearing you say that but even the media outlets your blindly read and listen to have not said he stole from the house being constructed.
Says the guy who’s claiming a murder took place on nothing more than the word of some activists looking for a paycheck.
Get real. Being racist is wrong no matter how you look at it. You are just butthurt that people can see a difference between this case and something like the Zimmerman case.
What part of “I’m not the least bit Slavic” did your racist ass not understand? Tatar’s are not Slavs. Cossacks are not Slavs. Get your head of your ass and learn a bit about the word outside your double wide.
But hey I suppose all use honkeys look the same to you… right?
Powertemp, the definition of a cossack is East Slavic-speaking Orthodox Christian people , they are slavs.
And you are right Tartars are not Slav they are turks.
Now I understand your approach on here, you are going Genghis on us.
Please tell me how you “speak” an ethnicity. Slavic is a family of languages as well as an ethnicity. Not all Slavic-speaking people are ethnically Slavs.
I already explained to you the owner said he was only trespassing and he won’t provide the video to show Arbery in the act.
The day of the shooting Arbery didn’t have anything on him. The father saw Arbery jogging in the neighborhood not committing a crime. He went after Arbery because he believed it was Arbery who stole his son’s gun from their truck. It had nothing to do with the trespassing on the construction site.
The third man also called the cops because he saw Arbery running in the neighborhood and claims he was trespassing at the construction site again.
You have to accept the facts not white supremacy narrative.
You cited CNN fucktard. They are about as credible as the bathroom wall at the truck stops where you turn your tricks.
“the truck stops where you turn your tricks.”
Is that it? Is that all you got?
Perhaps you’ll gain some character when you reach puberty.
It’s funny that throughout this entire thread – you are the only one claiming racism. You are the only one that has pulled that card.
This was obviously a bad shoot no matter which way you cut it and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with race.
Explain to us all how what these two mouth breathers did was justified, in any way, by the statute that you have repeated multiple times.
Just because BLM, who you very ignorantly call “blacktivists”, are ridiculous in response to certain cop shootings does NOT mean that people are not justifiably outraged in response to this shooting. Which is what you have implied over and over again in this thread.
Again, YOU are the only person to bring race into this discussion.
You can suspect that all you want. That doesn’t mean that you are justified in confronting him with a shotgun when you did not see him commit a crime.
Rational gun owners would call the police and let them handle it instead of pretending to be a gung ho mall cop moron.
Even if you witnessed him commit the crime most rational gun owners will allow the police to handle it if they were not directly injured as a result of the crime.
These two mouth breathers, the son is literally a mouth breather, give law abiding gun owners that simply want to mind their own business and protect their own property a bad name.
This was a BAD shoot no matter which way you slice it. They did not follow the statute that you have cited numerous times at all. I am not sure why you continue to cite it. And racism has nothing to do with the shoot or the response. Stop playing the race card!
In Georgia, it does. The statute was clear if they had immediate knowledge of a crime they had the right to arrest. A guy who’s running away from a construction site and starts shitting tools when confronted… (Thanks for the catch Barry.) Yeah. If they can prove he was carrying those tools and that they belonged to the construction site, this case is over.
If you look on the road there appears to be tools. Dropped by Mr. Arbery? Mr. Arbery then proceeds to attack the individual with the shotgun. Looked to me like he was trying to wrestle it out of his hands. First shot was discharged as he pulled the weapon. Second shot had his hand still on the barrel and the shot went through his palm. Last shot either pulled again or Father pulled trigger. Can anyone tell what kind of shotgun? Auto loader or pump?
Good catch Barry, that sort of changes the DemonicRat narrative here and makes it appear that the men had an immediate knowledge that a crime had been committed so the attempt to make a citizen’s arrest was legal. That in turn makes the claim of self-defense also legal. Also shows this guy was scum as serge suspected. Right Chief?
When I go jogging, I always bring a hammer… you know… in case I need to fix some siding. Very good catch. If they were pursuing the guy because they though he robbed a construction site and then he started shitting tools… well, there’s your immediate knowledge of a felony. The presence of tools at the scene make it a much easier case.
Did the tools have the perp’s prints on them?
Are the tools identified as belonging to the construction site this guy allegedly robbed?
If both answers are yes, this case is over except for the inevitable blacktivist riots.
Was Arbery’s fingerprints on the holster left behind in the truck when the son’s handgun disappeared?
We’ll find out, won’t we? Seems to me like that scumbag goat exactly what he had coming to him. Live like a thug, die like a thug.
Bring back public hangings. Others will not follow these men’s deeds so closely.
Yes… how dare these men defend themselves from a felon running off with stolen property? Notice the tools strewn across the road in the video? Where do you think they came from?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shkI3dAH1DM
Give up Chief, like a flat earther or antivac Powertemp is not going to be pried from his beliefs.
He spends hours squatting in front of his computer reinforcing his irrational beliefs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-8gsWZqDBM
Yeah Ken, that’s not racist at all.
From the AJC article that the above video is attached to.
A direct quote.
“GBI Director Vic Reynolds said Friday that his agency received the case Tuesday night and began investigating Wednesday. By Thursday afternoon agents had concluded they had sufficient evidence to charge the two men.“I can tell you there was more than sufficient probable cause in this case,” he said.” Both men are in the Glynn County jail after a judge refused to free them on bond Friday afternoon.
This video almost confirms without a doubt what I have been saying.
The initial caller is separate from the acts of the father and son. The neighbor was the one to see Arbery enter the property again and start to run down the street. He saw the son and father jump in their trunk and chase Arbery. He decided to jump in his and record the situation.
The father lives a few houses down. He saw Arbery run past their house. He went back inside to arm up and get his son. They chased down Arbery. The dad didn’t want his son to get out of the truck and go after Arbery with the shotgun. He told the son to stop, but his son refused to listen because he wanted to get his handgun back from Arbery. The father got blood on his hands because he was searching Arbery for the gun.
The father looks very pissed that his son didn’t listen and killed Arbery. He got them both caught up in a murder charge.
The buddy won’t be charged because they figure he was more of a witness and didn’t have a personal beef with Arbery. Although he was trying to help catch Arbery they joined together for different reasons. The government will use his footage and testimony to go after the father and son.
I would not be surprised the lawyer “leaked” the video to help the neighbor’s case to prevent him from being charged with murder. They will argue the neighbor wanted justice because those two men were out of control and went about it in the wrong way.
It’s a very smart move to make the neighbor an outraged witness looking for justice. To make it look like he was appalled by the murder and couldn’t rest in peace without exposing the truth.
So we’re just going to ignore the clear evidence that the perp was shitting stolen tools when confronted? Ok. Guess you just won’t listen to reason.
Add a little possible correction: It appears Arbery had something in his hands that could be used as a weapon, he was told to drop it by the father, he complied and toss it on the ground, he no longer had the object/s on him. Then Arbery ran toward the son who was trying to stop him with the shotgun, that’s when the son shot Arbery in the hand and the father dropped his phone.
In other words, if Arbery had a hammer on him as a weapon (he can’t own guns) he tossed it on the ground when ordered to. He disarmed himself before fighting with the son.
I know I pack a hammer when I go “jogging”. But thanks for giving more evidence that the father/son pair had more immediate knowledge that the clown was in possession of stolen property making their citizen’s arrest all the more legally justified.
@pwrserge
I have been threatened with a hammer and a screwdriver before when I was a teen by other teens. One of them was going to stab me with the screw driver. Also, people having bats was a common thing too.
You’re not helping your case. This stop looks more and more justified by the minute.
Really?
What is he looking at?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rg8CaecNJI8
So… everybody who claims that there were no videos of him breaking and entering… they can suck it.
@pwrserge
I told you a long time ago they had videos of him inside and the owner said he didn’t steal. Now the owner is releasing the videos. They are still saying he didn’t steal. The owner never filed a report on Arbery for entering the unlocked property.
It appears Arbery was looking at the electrical wiring because he was studying to be an electrician.
The father did not witness Arbery commit a felony. His house is far away and on the same block. He noticed Arbery when he ran past the home. The father and son were after him for their stolen handgun they believed Arbery stole.
The neighbor had a press conference today saying he was only a witness and was only following him for the trespassing.
So… where did the multiple tools in the video come from?
He was looking at five to ten for trespassing , burglary, thats why he ran away…
Want to know how to defend yourself from a felon running away from your property with some tools?
You let him leave.
You call police, which it seems they did not do.
Yeah… I’m sure the police will get right on that and will totally catch this guy… It’s not like they failed to do so for almost two months to that point… Oh… wait…
Cops are only useful for emergency response and carting away dead bodies. If you think you’re ever getting your shit back just by filing a burglary report, you’re delusional.
Be interesting to see how the real lawyers work this out instead of the legal experts on this thread.
Is there a betting pool up yet?
Not yet but I’d bet that a vote for Powertemps version would be the loser.
A real lawyer has already spoken, the original DA on the case declined to prosecute.
@pwrserge – It doesn’t matter what the original DA on this case said. They’re wrong. By extension, so are you. The facts of the case, already laid out by others before me, conclusively and concretely prove that you’re categorically wrong. Nothing that you or anyone else says will change that, either.
I agree with you on a lot of things. This ain’t it, because this was murder. It was not self-defense. It was not a citizen’s arrest. It was murder. Period.
And that’s the end of this whole conversation, whether you want it to be or not. Don’t bother adding to it, it’s already inadmissible.
I know what “immediate knowledge” means under Georgia law.
Evidently you do not if you think they had said knowledge.
A young man died because these three mouth breathers chased him down on the street instead of simply calling the police. Idiotic mall cop cowboys that give gun owners a bad name.
If it was me and I was confronted suddenly with a person with a shotgun I would have lit him up and been perfectly justified in doing so. So would have Aubrey. They had NO immediate knowledge that he committed a crime.
However, let’s assume that they did have immediate knowledge – they are still morons and every responsible gun owner should treat them as such instead of screaming about racism and the “blacktivists” in an attempt to defend them and their actions while any reasonable gun owner understands that their actions were asinine.
The law doesn’t specify anything about confronting a suspect with a firearm either. Anyone who attempts a citizens arrest with a gun when other means, like calling the police are available – is an absolute moron. Even if they get off criminally they will be sued for every dime that they have in civil court and rightfully so. No one recognizes the authority of a citizen, armed or not. Aubrey likely was in fear for his life and did the only thing that he thought he could do when confronted by this mouth breather with a shotgun. Again, idiots like this who think they are cowboys because their life is so boring give gun owners like me a bad name.
People need to stop trying to be cowboys and defend themselves and their families. That’s it. Let the cops handle the rest.
The original DA that had a working relationship with the accused?
Nope. The riding DA’s SON happened to work in the same OFFICE (not the same team or department) as the accused. Like I keep saying, there is a closer tie between me and Donald Trump than between the DA who declined prosecution and the accused.
For some other info
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXme0T7DaQU
@pwrserge
I know what “immediate knowledge” means under Georgia law.
Evidently you do not if you think they had said knowledge.
A young man died because these three mouth breathers chased him down on the street instead of simply calling the police. Idiotic mall cop cowboys that give gun owners a bad name.
If it was me and I was confronted suddenly with a person with a shotgun I would have lit him up and been perfectly justified in doing so.
However, let’s assume that they did have immediate knowledge – they are still morons and every responsible gun owner should treat them as such instead of screaming about racism and the “blacktivists” in an attempt to defend them.
The law doesn’t specify anything about confronting a suspect with a firearm either. Anyone who attempts a citizens arrest with a gun when other means, like calling the police, are available is an absolute moron. Even if they get off criminally they will be sued for every dime that they have civilly and rightfully so. No one recognizes the authority of a citizen, armed or not. Aubrey likely was in fear for his life and did the only thing that he thought he could do when confronted by this mouth breather with a shotgun. Again, idiots like this who think they are cowboys because their life is so boring give gun owners like me a bad name.
People need to stop trying to be cowboys and defend themselves and their families. That’s it. Let the cops handle the rest.
Something Pwrserge does not seem to understand is being “dead right”. Maybe the father and son were allowed to go after Arbery under the law. That’s up to a trial to decide and no matter how that plays out their lives are ruined. Smart people would have simply followed him or given a good description of him to LEO since Dad was familiar with him. Grabbing the guns and chasing him down and unfortunately for them all the video mean that if they do manage to be found within their rights to shoot him it will leave them bankrupt and destitute as well as pariahs to most people. So was it worth it? Serge seems to think so. Hopefully he will never find himself in a courtroom in a similar situation.
Innocent until proven guilty is the only statement any constitutional patriot should be saying. everything else is opinion until the jury of their peers decides.
And heres more evidence Abery wasn’t a model citizen.
https://www.infowars.com/surveillance-videos-show-ahmaud-arbery-trespassed-into-mans-home-before-shooting/
Never mind its a conspiracy theory, a deep fake by the deep state.
“Newly released surveillance videos show Ahmaud Arbery trespassed into a home — which the homeowner says was robbed of $2,500 worth of fishing gear earlier this year”
Does it bother you at all, to spread Alex Jones lies? The statement above is completely fraudulent.
Number one it wasn’t anyone’s home, it was a construction site.
Number two, it was a construction site of a new home, so claiming fishing equipment had been stolen earlier in the year is another lie.
Number three, the video is out and the victim nearly stepped in and check out the progress and left without damaging anything or stealing any items.
To continue to lie about the victim is to continue to demonstrate your prejudice and racism.
You are not an asset to the POTG and you are working hard to make sure we lose our rights, thanks so much!
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