As we’ve pointed out frequently in the past, marijuana may be legal in your state, but it’s still a Schedule I controlled substance as far as the federal government is concerned. That means you’re violating federal law by using it while owning firearms. And if you answer the questions truthfully on a 4473 form, users can’t legally purchase a gun.
[W]hile some states have decriminalized even the recreational use of marijuana, the federal government has not. 21 USC 802(16) lists marijuana (spelled marihuana in the law) as a controlled substance, and it is listed among such substances that can get a person a felony drug conviction. Such a conviction means good-bye to your Second Amendment rights.
Under 18 USC 922, though, one doesn’t need to be convicted on a drug charge to get hit with a 10-year federal sentence. All one has to be is an unlawful user of a controlled substance. This can include marijuana, as this case in Iowa illustrates. The United States Concealed Carry Association has outlined a lot of that on its site.
Here, a number of normal Second Amendment champions have not really been moving on this issue. But Representative Earl Blumenauer (D-OR) has introduced HR 420, the Regulate Marijuana Like Alcohol Act. This legislation takes marijuana and puts it on the same tier as alcohol with regards to federal regulation. The most important feature is that marijuana no longer becomes a controlled substance, which ends a lot of legal jeopardy for those who exercise their Second Amendment rights while using marijuana.
– Harold Hutchison in Below The Radar: Regulate Marijuana Like Alcohol Act
Finally some good news. 420 blaze it
Frankly, I don’t care what someone chooses to put into their own body. I’m permissive of the medical CBD and disapproving of the recreational THC, but have never touched any of the Devil’s Lettuce, nor do I ever plan to.
The only thing I’m adamantly against is being financially coerced via taxation to subsidize the medical healthcare for those who choose to partake in poor life choices, and then cannot afford the consequences later in life. If you want to get stoned, clambaked, hotboxed, high, reefered, whatever…do it on your own dime. If you can handle it, then it’s your life. And if you end up losing your job, savings, marriage, health, and wind up in a ditch, then it’s also your life.
****
I posted another comment further down asking for advice on CA Penal Code for “empty holster carry”, if anyone wants to read it and chime in.
Nope, I goofed. I posted my question on the “Shannon Watts” page. My bad.
With freedom comes responsibility. Arguably, you can’t have true freedom without responsibility, because as long as someone else pays your way they have control. Even if that someone pays with your money, as long as someone else controls how your money is spent. And if each of us does not take responsibility for our choices, that can only happen by forcing someone else to take responsibility. I’m saddened (but not surprised) by the sheer number of nominal adults who don’t seem to understand that.
All good points… But as things are, plenty of people are in the Gray Bar Hotel on non-violent weed offences, and I’m going to take a guess that between the cost of incarceration and the loss of potential tax income on pot sales, that’s probably costing You and Me Taxpayer a hell of a lot more money.
I see your point & agree, if no children go hunger, because of perents bad hibits.
“subsidize the medical healthcare for those who choose to partake in poor life choices, and then cannot afford the consequences later in life.”
So no healthcare for tobacco smokers with lung, oral motor, laryngeal or Esophageal cancer?
No coverage for beer, wine or spirits drinkers who develop GR, liver or kidney disease?
No diabetic, high blood pressure or bariatric treatment for obese people whose BMI is too high?
No neurosurgery for motorcycle riders with no helmet who suffered a TBI?
Those who choose to ride horses or ATVs or dirt bikes and suffer traumatic injuries receive no care, they climbed on so it’s on them, right?
And what is most interesting, there are no significant health impacts associated with marijuana use, no death, no disease.
And in genesis, the Lord specifically grants herb bearing seed to humans, to ban any herb bearing seed is to infringe upon religious liberty.
Don’t use it but, its being used to help people like many other things natural….& its not as bad as legal alcohol…….
“its being used to help people like many other things”
If that’s the argument, then make it a Schedule III or IV drug that you can get with a prescription. If people are serious about that, then it needs to go through official studies and trials just like any other prescription drug. But that isn’t the goal. The goal is to legalize a recreational drug, so let’s at least try to keep the discussion honest. The current push to legalize it is based purely on money.
As Schedule I, it cant be legally researched.
That’s why it should be changed.
The argument is: Liberty works better than government. We don’t need MORE legislation, we need less. There’s no reason for the governmnet to be involved in the growing, harvesting or consumption of flowers. Period.
I kinda have a problem with that Opium Poppy flower.
Rick, then don’t use it. Problem solved.
Yes, “confirm thy soul with self control, thy Liberty in Law”. If we pair Liberty with enforced Law to take care of the actual victims of crimes, we can deregulate immensely.
High and t-bone someone? Enjoy paying restitution and/or losing an equivalent amount of your life in service to that you destroyed.
@Rick:
Here’s the problem, it typifies government:
It’s illegal to cultivate opium poppies, but it’s easy to do by accident. Papaver somniferum is illegal as a plant but generally the seeds are not. With the plants themselves most people can’t tell the difference. The result of this is that illegal poppies are sold in garden stores nationwide by, and to, people who don’t know what they are. The plants get mixed in with other, legal, poppies and the vast majority of people cannot tell the difference since it takes experience to tell the difference.
As such, opium poppies are quite common in gardens across this fair nation. And under the law this is known as “manufacturing narcotics”. People get their lives ruined over it, essentially at random, if/when someone notices that a portion of their plants are technically illegal and drops a dime on them.
” It’s illegal to cultivate opium poppies, but it’s easy to do by accident. Papaver somniferum is illegal as a plant but generally the seeds are not. ”
Not entirely true. As an avid gardener — closer to urban farmer, actually — I had cause to look in to this issue for reasons that I won’t go in to.
Growing poppies is entirely legal. And you are correct about the seeds being legal — the best breadseed seeds used in baking are papaver somniferum, and if you buy a bottle of seeds at your local supermarket those are likely what you will get (don’t bother to plant them– they won’t germinate).
Poppies don’t run afoul of the law until an attempt is made to harvest the sap from the seed pod. So if the DEA comes in to your back yard and finds poppies, no harm, no foul. If they find a bunch of poppies with vertical cuts on the seed pod, well… Lucy, you got some splennin ta do.
There are ways to get around all that, which I won’t go into. But, if you want to grow poppies, feel free to do so without any fear from the DEA. If you’re going to harvest them, grow them in the back yard.
@UpInArms:
“Poppies don’t run afoul of the law until an attempt is made to harvest the sap from the seed pod.”
There’s a lot of confusion on this and I’m going to tell you flat out that your research contradicts mine.
First, the DEA considers all parts of Papaver somniferum (and actually a number of other related species) to be “opium” except the seeds. Any part of the plant other than seeds is Schedule II, no FDA license and DEA permit? Federal felony. You may not, according to the rules, grow or possess any part of a somniferum plant OTHER than the seeds unless you possess a federal license to have it. This, generally, isn’t enforced and it’s not enforced at the federal level due to the waste of resources it represents because you can buy heroin cheaper than you can make opium. Cutting the plant in any way is classified as “harvesting” them, technically speaking. Cut one for a floral arrangement? Technically under the law you just manufactured narcotics.
So while it may not be enforced at the federal level this way, it’s technically on the books.
But the seeds are sold, to this day, by companies selling them for baking but also as garden plants. Sometimes even marked specifically as P. Somniferum or a sub-species. They are, in fact, gorgeous plants.
However, enforcement these days depends mostly on your state laws and local prosecutors. The DEA doesn’t tend to care as long as you don’t attempt to “harvest” the plants but local cops and DAs that are “tough on crime” sometimes do. The DEA generally has bigger fish to fry. But, again, technically the plant is illegal the DEA just isn’t dropping the hammer on people because, realistically, it’s a waste of resources unless it’s a massive grow like Cody Xiong had a few years ago, and that WAS for the production of drugs too. And this is what scares major flower growers from time to time.
Also, many states have “intent” built into their laws the same way the DEA has it in some of their regs. People have been prosecuted for knowingly growing P. somniferum because knowing what it is, supposedly demonstrates intent to produce narcotics even if you only have one or two or even if they came with your property.
There was an article that sent me down this road, mainly because the house I grew up in had a metric-fuckton of P. somniferum growing in parts of the yard, back in the day. The author was Michael Pollan, it’s a LONG article and I believe it was called “Opium Made Easy”. It’s about his growing a garden and attempting to discern if it was legal or not. (Spoiler, no matter what the cops and others told him, it turned out to be major felony violations for just growing these plants and knowing what they were while doing so.)
Go ask a serious drug attorney about this and the advice you’ll get these days isn’t much different from what it was in 2000. Don’t grow poppies. Preferably don’t grow any poppies of any type. There’s a zillion pretty flowers out there and if you make a mistake doing this you can end up in prison. It’s not worth the risk.
You’ll get the same advice from a number of horticultural experts too. If you’re not growing them with in a university botany program you might get your door kicked and the law is “flexible” enough that you may well get fucked.
Own guns? Definitely don’t grow poppies. They can, and an enterprising DA very well may, say you’re making drugs and have guns and start talking “sentencing enhancement”. Just ask Jim Hogshire about getting busted with a few poppies he got in a dried floral arrangement from a store while having some guns in his house. He beat those charges but it wrecked his life. He could even prove where he got the plants, and the store had the same arrangement for sale when the cops showed up. They didn’t screw with the store but they hit both Hogshires with serious felonies over this.
Where in the Constitution does it say the government can even regulate one drug? They had to pass a constitutional amendment to ban alcohol. Where’s the amendment for all the other drugs?
That’s the trick, my friend. They tried to ban drugs back in the 1800s (Opium, because of actual racism against Chinese railroad workers.) The Supreme Court struck it down saying the government did not have the authority to do so. SO instead, they cooked up a scheme to tax the drugs out of the price range of users. This eventually led to the 1970s war on drugs and how we “schedule” drugs today. The whole thing is a sham. Of course, this is why some of us laugh when people call us nuts for thinking they will somehow ban guns without actually outright banning them. It’s happened before. You used to be able to order Cocaine from the Sears Robuck catalog. You also used to be able to order guns from the same place. How odd that you now can order neither unless you have a license granting you back your freedom in a tiny slice as allowed by the benevolent Big Brother.
Exactly, its not there.
We have non-laws, unjust courts, and corrupt politicians. According NORML, around 70-75% of the country has some degree of support for legalization. I personally consult the “smoke the vote” list at NORML and check up the voting records of people on the ballot this November. They need to support guns, support the wall, support liberty ( REAL LIBERTY, NOT LIP SERVICE, AKA THE COTUS AND LEGAL WEED! ), pro-life, etc.
The big problem is when the left and right wing choices at the ballot box are nothing more than a hegalian system designed to push the whole country further into the toilet. It’s a choice between crazy and bat**** insane. I make my vote count as much as I can but I prepare knowing its utterly worthless.
I forget if it was Harry Reid or Joe Biden that gave us the original CSA (Controlled Substance act), but all the glowing medical research and evidence for the use of steroids was thrown out. They are literally the fountain of youth when combined with a healthy diet and exercise, but we were denied that glory in the name of… wait for it… BASEBALL! Baseball politics and a bunch of made up lies about kids eating tree bark, roid rage, etc.
I wonder where they got reefer madness from and orange juice boy from? Time to legalize it all. Punish people / rehab them when they commit a crime, otherwise, leave people alone.
“I forget if it was Harry Reid or Joe Biden that gave us the original CSA (Controlled Substance act)”
Fake news, signed into law by Richard Nixon in 1970.
@miner49er
It seems I mis-spoke and I was thinking of the Steroid Control Act of 1990, in which Joe Biden, Dan Lungren, and that silver tongued snake Kenneth Kashin, forced it through congress. Signed into law by President George H. W. Bush.
Nixon did indeed sign the CSA back in his time, and TMK the Reagans gave us that DARE garbage of “just say no”, something Jeff “potleaf” Sessions desperately wanted to revive. Although the war on drugs was raging long before any of them, all the way back to Great Britain and China’s “opium crisis”, and even before then.
https://www.t-nation.com/opinion/should-steroids-be-legal
https://steroidlaw.com/2019/02/anabolic-steroids-controlled-substances/
On a side note, Peyote use has been documented to go back at far as 3,700 BC, with some preserved buttons being around 5,000 years old. Mushroom use likely goes back even further. Its likely some form of “drug control” goes back equally as far but that’s purely speculation on my part and don’t have the time to research it that far back.
Or we can legalize it based on freedom. It’s none of your business what someone is putting in their body. Just like it’s none of their business what guns you own. Let people maybe decide things for themselves.
The prescription system is disgusting overreach of the government too.
This was @Dude. I must of miss clicked.
“The prescription system is disgusting overreach of the government too.”
I agree, but where is the movement to make everything over the counter? It’s all about the money. Legalized pot is going to make some people very wealthy, and politicians are salivating over the extra tax revenue. It’s funny, I never once said it shouldn’t be legalized. I just think it’s important to be honest about it.
It was legalized here and they created state monopolies and tax the absolute crap out of it. It’s abuse. To make the state richer.
I am just saying freedom is the only argument we should make. There should be zero regulation and just let the average joe start a business and mail it to peoples houses.
Zero regulation I mean other than crimes like fraud and stuff. I agree there needs to be a movement to totally end victimless crimes. It’s silly that people go to prison for a crime with no victim.
“I am just saying freedom is the only argument we should make. There should be zero regulation and just let the average joe start a business and mail it to peoples houses.”
Can we do the same with other natural recreational drugs? How do you know where to draw the line without intensive studies? Once we say it’s okay, we need to determine standards, labels, etc. All pot is not created equal.
“I agree there needs to be a movement to totally end victimless crimes. It’s silly that people go to prison for a crime with no victim.”
Roger Stone agrees with you.
“Can we do the same with other natural recreational drugs?” Yes. Whether they are natural or not does not matter to me either. If someone wants to do drugs they are going to do it anyway. Might as well be legal.
“How do you know where to draw the line without intensive studies?” If there is no victim there is no line. If someone gets hopped up on pcp and hurts someone. hurting someone is the crime. I don’t think most people are going to go get pcp just because it’s legal either. It happens either way still. I also don’t believe in regulating things based on what someone might do.
“Once we say it’s okay, we need to determine standards, labels, etc. All pot is not created equal.” Sure as long as it is completely in the private market and the government has nothing to do with it.
“If there is no victim there is no line.”
But you should at least know what you’re getting into. Consumers should be well aware of any possible risks. The victim could be the buyer, just ask someone addicted to opioids.
lol If they don’t lie I don’t care. If someone sells someone heroine telling them it’s good for them that is fraud. It has nothing to do with the product.
I don’t think labeling cigarettes as cancer causing impacts sales. If they lie about it there is a victim. People should research what they are going to put in their body though. It’s not fraud if someone doesn’t research a product.
If the business lies, then that puts 100% of the liability on them, as it should be. If we don’t need labels and standards for powerful drugs, then why should we have standards for anything? Would you prefer for the consumer rather than the business be responsible for every product being sold? I’m sure every big corporation out there agrees with you.
lol. If you buy a tv that does not work it’s fraud. If you buy drugs that are not drugs it’s fraud. If they make claims that are not true it’s fraud. Not sure what your point is?
Fraud the business should be liable for. I agree. How ever. If they sell you pot that doesn’t get you high enough go to a different store?
I research products from electronics, games, guns, food all the time because the government could never and will never create standards that work.
The government “standards” Have you seen the regulations on making and selling cigars? It’s absurd. It’s all for the consumer too. lmao.
Dude. I will always take the position that it’s up to the consumer to decide if a product is good. Did you know mattresses need a top layer fireproofing to keep cigarette smokers from burning themselves to death because enough people fell asleep with a cigarette?
They started putting fiberglass in cheap mattresses and now you have to be even more careful. The government is not the solution to standards.
There are all kinds of standards for computer parts. That is done in the private market. The amount of effort private businesses put into making sure their products won’t burn your house down will always be better than if the government makes up those standards and there will always be bad products that break, will burn your house down or make you sick.
Not to mention how much health stuff is purely opinion and pseudoscience or even religious.
even more careful picking mattresses I mean*
Nailed it.
It’s purely a freedom issue for me. The government has no business telling private people what they can and can’t do when it doesn’t harm any other tax cattle. If the “freedom loving” republican party pulled it’s head from it’s ass, they would literally steal any thunder the (D) party could muster by legalizing weed. Not to mention they would gain a significant amount of new voters.
Austin is a lost, liberal hellhole, but at least the police there have stopped enforcing cannabis “violations”. Violation of what? It’s not in the COTUS and there is no legal leg for the war on drugs to stand on. A violation of some old goats opinion, enforced at the barrel of a gun.
@Biatec,
I think you misunderstood me. I’m not talking about new endless regulations. I despise useless regulations that get in the way. I’m merely talking about knowing what you’re buying. When you buy pot off the street, you don’t always know exactly what you’re getting. If you buy it from a legitimate business, you should know exactly what you’re getting.
“Dude. I will always take the position that it’s up to the consumer to decide if a product is good.”
Would you agree that there should have been a warning label on prescribed opioids, that there’s a good chance you could become addicted for life if you take them? Most people just trusted their doctor and took what was prescribed without being made aware of the risks.
“Would you agree that there should have been a warning label on prescribed opioids, that there’s a good chance you could become addicted for life if you take them?”
No. I would say research it. Especially do not trust your doctor. Make sure to get multiple opinions. Doctors are people too and can be lazy, sloppy and can ruin your life over a simple problem.
I get what you mean. My problem with warning labels is everyone thinks their view is based on reason and science. Some of it is obvious like of course opioids are not good for you and can be very addictive. I don’t think the government should have the power to push a perspective like that.
An Example outside of drugs sort of: If people want to do faith healing they are going to do it no matter what. I don’t believe in any supernatural stuff or anything like ghosts or an afterlife. I wouldn’t advocate making faith healers give a warning or some of the products they sell have warnings even though I think a lot of people hurt themselves or their kids that way. The label will have no impact on that decision and even if it did I wouldn’t advocate for one as long as they are not lying about what it is and you can research it.
It’s not hard to research this stuff and I put responsibility on the consumer for that. I mean I am fine with private warning labels. How ever it’s not the governments job to track products and make sure the buyers are informed.
Anyway. It’s not like we will be deregulating the medical industry any time soon or getting rid of victimless crimes.
Unless all you meant was private warning labels by the company itself and not mandatory. That I am totally fine with. Though they will likely never do that.
Okay, that’s interesting. Here’s another question for you along that same train of thought. Should we not have licensed professionals? Should anyone be able to advertise that they are a doctor, lawyer, etc. without being regulated by a licensing board? Why can’t the consumers decide?
yeah I oppose government licensing lol.(I feel like an anarcho Capitalist when I say that. I am not) It’s used by lobby groups with the main purpose of raising the barrier to entry in business. It’s that it always has far more problems than it fixes.
A license only factors in for me because it’s a crime to practice medicine without it. So I go to a doctor with a license. If they got rid of licenses I would still only see a doctor who went to school and didn’t have a major history of malpractice lawsuits. The same for any other license. Nothing would change. I would still seek someone qualified who went to school and that I hear good things about. It would still be illegal to claim you have a medical degree if you don’t have one.
I do think the consumer should decide.
John Stossel sums up my problem with licensing. I’m not saying every single certification and license is like this. I think most are but I can’t outright say all without looking at every license or cert.
At best a license is a tax and at worst it’s used to keep out competition. At least that is my view on it.
https://youtu.be/s_TUCjplHzE
I saw Stossel do a special on it once. Some of the certifications are taken to the extreme. You shouldn’t have to be certified for most trades. Most consumers trust that since you are in business, then you are legitimate. In 20 years of business, no one has ever asked to see my degree. I’ve only had to submit my license one time that I can remember, and that was for a TVA contract. If anyone is allowed to do what I do, then some problems won’t surface until years down the road when the perp is safe due to statutes of limitations. People that skip the proper education, etc. will always be cheaper and therefore more appealing to consumers. I get where you’re coming from, but I’m for a happy medium.
It’s always interesting to talk about. lol 🙂
Roger stone engaged in witness intimidation in an effort to thwart a federal investigation.
So we should let the mobsters get away with threatening witnesses to keep their mouth shut, Al Kapone and John Gotti thank you for your position.
If you actually followed the case, you would know it is a sick joke. It’s a political prosecution. That person was not intimidated. People say worse on this board all the time. Stone isn’t known to be a violent person. It’s hilarious to watch the hypocrite dems who say they’re for justice reform and lighter or no jail sentences, cheer on people that recommended NINE YEARS in prison for a lie to congress and a fake, non-intimidating threat. On top of that, they’re letting out real criminals because of Covid, even when the criminals are young. If Stone caught the virus, it might be a death sentence. And this entire situation is due to a complete fraud of an investigation to begin with.
Yeah, Miner that’s really justice right there, isn’t it? I’m sure your family will be resting easy knowing he’s in prison, while actual violent criminals are being let out, and caught again, and let out again. That sounds logical!
If someone can go to prison for lying to congress, then it’s only fair that Adam Schiff go to prison for lying in congress, don’t you think? Funny how those laws are designed to only work one way.
I’d rather have more people walking around with munchies and an appreciation for shitty instrumental bands than addicted to opioids.
Me too.
The opioid crisis was manufactured by government.
First they told doctors you have to treat pain, or else. So doctors did.
Then a lot of people got addicted.
Then government came back and said “OMG there’s a problem.” and told doctors to stop treating pain so much. So they did.
All of those newly minted addicts began doctor shopping and going to 2 or 3 to get their chemical needs met.
So government cracked down on that. Addicts were then unable to get their fix so they went tot he street, where prescription drugs are expensive but heroin is cheap. And by going to the black market they were subjected to all the vagaries of being and dealing with criminals; dealers cutting in fentanyl to spread out their drug and make more money, and all the dangers of being robbed, assaulted, or ripped off.
Of course fentanyl is far more powerful than heroin, as well as being cheaper, and if they take a little too much accidentally then the shuffle off this mortal coil.
The solution is just remove all drug regulations, aside from a few quality controls, and let addicts by their specific dose or their drug prepackaged in single use syringes right next to the cigarettes and chewing tobacco in every convenience store.
The drugs would be made in ordinary factories with standard ingredients and quality controls and come in specific known dosages.
This would eliminate impure drugs, eliminate dirty needles, eliminate accidental overdoses, and bring down the cost enough that an addict could afford their fix on a dead end job instead of being forced to turn to crime to support their habit.
Most importantly it is the option that conforms to individual liberty.
And why was there an opioid crisis to begin with? Money.
Back in the day, I tried to explain how I didn’t trust doctors and that they load people up on drugs for kickbacks and all I got for my trouble was being laughed away as a conspiracy nutcase. Funny how conspiracies being correct have a pretty damn good track record, better than the government.
Opiates are highly addicting; habit forming as I call it since addicting removes yourself from power. Consult a harm reduction form / drug form for more information. Even as poppy pods, they are said to be very addictive / habit forming.
They should be legal with everything else but REAL information on drugs needs to be published in educational material. A big part of why no one believes the government, the schools (government), or health workers on drug use is because of the long history of lies, like reefer madness. Once the credibility is ruined, people don’t believe anything else that might actually be true.
Give five guys a bottle of whiskey and they’ll start a fight.
Give a five guys a bag of weed and they’ll start a band.
Marijuana is one of the most researched substances in history.
In fact, it is the alcohol lobby that fears complete national decriminalization of marijuana and its derivatives as it will cut into the distilled spirits industry.
A number of years ago, the alcohol industry put out an “informational ad” which lumped marijuana with heroin, cocaine, and other “hard drugs” in order to perpetuate the false notion that alcohol was “safe” and that every other “drug” was somehow dangerous.
Just as alcohol prohibition did not work, and made massive profits for the underworld, “justice system”, and politically-connected class, the present prohibition on marijuana is doomed to failure as well.
States are already finding out that regulation and taxation are much better ways to “control” marijuana than outright prohibition.
Alcohol use has destroyed more families and individuals than every “illegal” substance combined.
Coors sure bitched about legal pot in Colorado
It never should have been listed as a Schedule I drug in the first place. But now that it is, there are a lot of workers in a lot of agencies who would suddenly find themselves short of work and short of asset forfeitures if weed were to be taken off that list.
This is the only reason for it still being listed in the same category as hard drugs. Sure, we can complain that the government should give up some of its power… but how often does that spontaneously happen without a whole lot of local/state support fighting them?
I don’t smoke anything or drink but am compelled to ask that if alcohol was subjected to the same scrutiny how do you think it would fare? Why do most drug prohibitionists want alcohol to be spared similar regulation? I posit it is because most people are hypocrites.
It is already a schedule III drug and has been for years. It is and appetite stimulant and nausea suppressant used for cancer pt’s. It has been a legal drug for years. The ProPot crowd has been lying…That said, just make it legal, no one needs to go to prison for toking a bit…
It’s called Dronabinol…forgot to post that..
“It’s called Dronabinol…forgot to post that..”
‘Forgot’, eh? I wonder why… 😉
You guys really ought to try Zombinol, I found it very effective.
It should be legal as should be all drugs in a true free society they would be period… if you can tell me what I can and can’t put in my body you can tell me anything… it’s unconstitutional also how come a constitutional amendment was needed to ban alcohol but not drugs? And the war on drugs destroyed the 4th amendment because the evidence will disappear… make it legal tax it… go by the constitution we solve this nation’s problems
Banning it was based on money.
One of my favorite info-graphics and I don’t even smoke it. http://35bwc33iih03ojou0ae1ba10-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Why-Cannabis-is-Illegal.png
no fights outside the bar at closing time for these mellow fellows…..
Good deal. While I personally don’t partake of the electric lettuce, I know that it helps a lot of people.
How is this a good idea? No one on mind altering drugs needs be operating firearms, whether its pot, alcohol, or schizo meds
Maybe you missed learning this somewhere but the effects don’t last forever, just like with alcohol or any other drug. No one is saying use a gun while drunk or high.
But in my case, it’s been a helluva lot of fun.
me too…but it tends to empty the shooting benches around you rather rapidly…..
Try shooting on acid. Its legit
@Bill. I shot a cigarette out of a guys mouth when he said, ” Hey possum, light Me up.” Acid n gunms not a good idea
Real Possum.
The Libertarians in the forum will be happy. Seems to me that’s all they care about.
Well since you are a Retardican guess you will be bummed because its ending part of one of your never ending wars you love so much. Mainly the war on drugs. Why don’t you go fight a real war? You Retardicans love them more than freedom, all of you should have to go fight one.
And all you big government progressives will be sad because more people have freedom and the government has less power.
You mean those of us who truly value the actual definition of what it means to be an American? Left the hell alone, to be able to do whatever you want to in the privacy of your own home?
And we’re the weird ones? It’s all fun and games until we get to freedom YOU don’t like, then it’s all bad and needs to be stopped.
Legalize everything. Regulate it, have an understanding of how much you’re getting and set standardization for each item. Eventually you’ll see the border violence stop, the influx of illegals stop coming in, property crimes and homelessness will drop, and maybe, even LESS drug addicts!
While we’re at it, let’s dump NFA. Over the counter machine guns, (and anything else you can fire from the shoulder), suppressors with every purchase. Let’s also remove the 9,500/10,000 pages of federal code on the books. Maybe you’ll see your life improve a bit. I’ll also toss out IRS, DEA, EPA, and whatever other agencies I can get rid of.
I tend to not say things like this, but step aside boomer, freedom needs to come through.
It makes my heart beat faster and my brain to nearly explode watching the hypocrisy of those who rail against the evil of smoking tobacco now clamoring to be allowed to smoke weed. Where is the out cry against second hand smoke, the carcinogens in the smoke, the number of children who will be harmed by MJs use? One day we will have lawsuits against big marijuana, just like we had with big tobacco.
People are so damn inconsistent in their thinking and actions that we really do need to take the warning labels off most things and let evolution sort things out. Anyone with me?
You’re assuming that politicians have principles. That’s a good one! It’s all about money and power.
Smoking tobacco will take 25 years off your life and is nasty to everyone around you. I don’t think anyone really cares if you smoke (as long as YOU pay for your medical costs), but did not like it being pushed on their kids or having to smell it. And I I feel the same way with pot, don’t push it on my kids, don’t blow it in my face, or put me at risk because you are high and we will get along fine.
With regards to Binder’s comments. Smoking MIGHT take 25 years off your life. If you add up all the deaths the anti-tobacco people claim are smoking related the number is bigger than the number of deaths annually from all causes in the United States. That just can’t happen. Bad data….purposely bad data. As for (no one) really cares if you smoke. Yeah they do. This is a classic liberal tune. If a conservative doesn’t like smoking they won’t smoke. If a liberal doesn’t like smoking then they think they have the right to tell everyone else that they can’t smoke and put restrictions on them. As for paying for your medical costs. That is a slippery slope. You fat? Overweight” Don’t exercise? Then maybe there should be an extra tax for you to pay for your medical costs. Watch for the liberal to go after that next. And as for smoking being pushed on your kids, you mean like socialism is pushed in schools or like advertising might appeal to kids and they are being directly targeted, like in school. I would like to see your proof of tobacco going after the under age market. For that matter I can’t really recall the last time I saw an advertisement for tobacco outside of print. As for having to smell it, it seems the likes of you have pretty much ensured that can’t happen as there is no more smoking in public places and often none is allowed in private bars in some jurisdictions. And then there is the Karen in Montgomery County Maryland, who called the cops on her neighbor claiming she could smell them smoking in their house with the windows closed and the house was five houses away. As for pot, and don’t push in on my kids, what are you doing about attempts to legalize it? What do you think will happen then? Don’t blow it in my face. Don’t hang out with potheads. I really don’t think you and I would get along fine at all.
My point is if smoking is do damn bad then why are we talking about legalizing smoking pot? People are so freaking inconsistent and hypocritical. At least Mr or Mrs Binder you are consistent in you don’t like anything that burns. How do you feel about barbeques? 🙂
If you can smoke a pack a day of joints, I don’t think you are going to last very long if you can’t go on welfare. You just don’t smoke pot as much as cigarettes. At is is VERY easy to track life expectancy of cigarette smokers, and its between 20-25 years less. Don’t need to go after government statistics, go with life insurance. When money is at stake, people make sure they get the numbers right
If you start barbecuing inside with me in a public place other than a BBQ joint, we may have a issue.
And for schools, well there is something called a school board and a PTA. The best public schools have a local population that is active in both. The PTA meetings at my school have parking issues. Hardly liberal at all in the schools as well (even in a blue state). The reason private schools are so good is that the parents on average are much much more involved than typical public schools. Collages are the same way to a point, but in that case much of it has to do with subject matter. Funny how the Engineering and Business programs are not really pushing that social agenda.
Edibles.
Edible tobacco disgusting. But I’m willing to hang out with chewers as long as they can control the spit cup. Dump one in my car and a WILL have a AD into your big toe.
tomacco.
remember the reaction when we stepped out on the street in San Fran and light up a cigarette…and heads turned as people stared at us…told my bud to pretend to smoke it like a roach…and we’ll be fine…it worked….
As America slides into oblivion. I guarantee pot heads run Antifa. And Black Lies Blather…yep I partook of the herb long ago. Glad I quit.
Seeing as how Antifa is mostly comprised of crazy-eyed white millennials, I’d wager that Adderol is their drug of choice.
Typically pot heads are the least violent of any drug group. You want to see a lot of food eateb and half assed unfinished projects the will never be completed look at pot heads. Never meet one I would consider violent and I went to high school in Northen California. Not saying they don’t exist just extremely rare. The ones you have to worry about are the ones that like adding coke, meth and whatever else into the mix. But I would not consider that to be a pot head per say.
There are many cases of marijuana-induced violent psychosis. It’s not the benign drug it is made out to be.
The causal link remains a matter for debate. Clinicians believe in a causal link, but can propose no mechanism. Epidemiologists consistently find a correlation, but not one that would suggest cannabis abuse is cause, rather than effect (or sharing a cause with) mental disorders.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2811144/
maybe,..but i’ve yet to see that…alcohol makes some people nasty and hostile…a virtual given…not the case with toke,..where just the opposite is true…..but it has gotten expensive…people ought to be able to raise their own…
One should always avoid meth heads. I was walking through a rural area recently (working). I was about to cut through part of a yard. The yard was overgrown, the trailer was pretty rough looking, and there was someone sitting in a car in the driveway with the door open. It was about 90 degrees. I decided to avoid that property. When I got to the public road in front of that trailer, someone had spray painted “Real Meth House” with an arrow pointing to the trailer. Someone had started to cover it up with black paint, but apparently gave up after covering a few letters. They couldn’t even get motivated enough to cover that up. Sad.
And all of the big government progressives are still in favor of this war on the American people that has destroyed the 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, and 10th Amendments.
Don’t be a Bogart…
There’s a great deal of evidence that marijuana has legit medical uses. But all the push for legalization is hijacking that fact. The legalization effort is about people wanting to get their buzz on and others wanting to get rich helping them do it.
It should be decriminalized and handled as a lower class of prescription medication. Should still be illegal for anyone under 18 to smoke it, same as tobacco.
And hell yes, inhaling the byproducts of combustion will always be a really bad thing for your body, your long term health and the second hand smoke will be no damn good for those around the toker either.
“The legalization effort is about people wanting to get their buzz on and others wanting to get rich helping them do it.”
Yes, not only politicians and business people, but the pot heads as well. Of course pot heads have always wanted it to be legal. They just aren’t the ones with the power. The people with the power have decided that now is a convenient time for legalization purely based on money. Money=(more)Power. So the politicians throw a bone for the pot heads to chew on like naming the Bill 420. “Whoa 420, he’s cool man!” I’ve also heard some politicians talking about giving black people preference for legalized pot business opportunities. I’m not even getting into how racist that sounds, but it’s just more bones being thrown to help the movement. The real moneymakers will end up being the big corps, as always. Just don’t tell anyone. *wink* Here, have another toke. Don’t think about it too hard.
“set-aside” contracts are nothing new….
Fentanyl has legit medical uses, but its abuse is devastating.
True, could not agree more. A relative of mine had a close call on a prescribed dose of that stuff for chronic pain. A transdermal patch of the lowest available dose. Reacted with other prescribed medications, all from the same doctor, and paramedics had to be called to administer the naloxone. It was a scary incident to say the least.
“Fentanyl has legit medical uses,…”
Yup, got some in the ambulance when I got my ankle broke in 4 places.
Fentanyl got me to the hospital, and a Morphine drip until I was wheeled into the OR a few hours later. Oxycodone post-op until discharge 5 days later…
Why should an adult need a government permission slip to buy anything? Need a med you know you need? Sorry, you have to waste hours of your time to go visit a government gatekeeper, convince him you need the med, then take that permission slip to another highly regulated government approved business to buy the med.
That is a main reason why health care costs are out of control.
does anybody really think this will stop the illegal sale of this stuff it will stop it just like it has stopped the making of moonshine there is always going to be a demand for untaxed and unregulated moonshine and pot myself if people waited on me to support either one of the products they will go broke fast
There’s a reason cigarettes are sold on the street corners in NYC.
….and the cops might kill you for doing it…
Interesting fact that goes along with what you said about taxes……
My State of South Carolina doesn’t care…as long as you give them money!!!
Downtown Anderson, SC
https://www.palmettomoonshine.com/home
I grew up off of manse jolly rd
I often wondered if anyone would either look up the name or recognize it. I adopted his name as my nom de plume on line.
If you have not been around the area in awhile, exit 19 i85 has grown, that whole area has.
What has been the death toll from moonshiners shooting it out over turf the last 10 years?
What has been the death toll from cops raiding the wrong house over a plant?
always be a little leery if you stumble into one of those patches out in the field…they tend to be a bit protective…
I don’t waste money or brain cells on pot so this law means nothing to me either way.
As much as I support this bill, I’m here to tell you it’s just a bill.
Sadly, it’s going nowhere. It’s election time posturing and pandering.
So more stoners with guns. Yay…?
They will mostly just be displacing drunks with guns and drunks are way more dangerous.
They’re equally dangerous.
Ask your local chief LEO how many calls his men make to DV incidents where either of the parties are on pot. Then ask how many of those DV incidents involve booze. Which one will be more dangerous? He will probably refuse to answer.
No the real danger is people not following the constitution… like you saying what’s best for someone the hell with that and you…
Funny thing about legalizing Weed. In Illinois they legalized it and slapped a 40% tax on it. One of the reasons touted for legalizing it was it would eliminate the Black Market. Thus helping to lower the crime rate. Allowing more funds to be used on fighting major crimes.
Now for the facts:
Illinois cannabis taxes among nation’s highest, could keep black market thriving
https://www.illinoispolicy.org/illinois-cannabis-taxes-among-nations-highest-could-keep-black-market-thriving/
Could Darkman?!? IS…I belong to a couple of ILL CCL group’s. Amazing the # of retards saying ” I get my pot from the street/buddy/dealer”. Almost like they’re too braindead to understand FB(& Fed’s&ISP) can easily trace you…
WQAD did a man on the street interview a few months ago in Moline outside a dispensary. They interviewed a customer who stated that his biggest complaint about Legalized weed in Illinois was the taxes. He said he could get a better deal from his “Contact” and would most likely get his product there from now on. This was broadcast on the Morning,Noon and Evening Newscasts. You can’t fix stupid…Even with Duct Tape.
I don’t use it, but it is clear that this is a change that needs to happen. Treating it like alcohol in federal law is likely the best way to deal with it since it’s clear some ongoing regulation at the production and distribution point is needed.
“Disgusted by the left” but still favoring progressive, left wing regulation.
Pot should be treated like booze. Let the cigarette companies do the manufacture if they so choose. Let liquor stores handle the sales if they want to. Let the state alcoholic beverage commissions handle the taxation. Let the Mexican cartels starve.
Of course, as long as the cartels have bribe money to pay, pot will never be legal. The government is for sale — and cheap.
they’re switching over to heroin…and making it very cheap….
If you smoke legal weed, just be warned that money greases the inspection process and a lot of stuff gets through that shouldn’t be getting through. Mold, air freshener, etc. Yes yes, it’s supposed to be tested but that’s on paper and it doesn’t always work in practice.
Same as with food.
All the recurring salad scares are proof of that at the very least. I go to the grocery store often, and some people read all the labels and won’t get ANYTHING with any odd ingredients, even small amounts of sugar. But in reality, we have no idea what else could be in there. Labeling and marketing are a scam too. It’s actually sickening. Everytime I see some label on food products I play Chic ’n’ Stu by System Of A Down in my head.
Hi , my name’s possum, and I’m an alcoholic and a marijuana user. I’ve had several accidental discharges drunk, but never while indulging in the herb marijuana. Maybe it’s because I couldn’t find the bullets? possum has no use for meth or anyone who uses it, bad drug, fcked up crazy people. ( my youngest son’s on the shit, only a matter of time before he’s back in the pen. Won’t listen to “dear old dad” and he’s looking at 35 years this time. Sad)
Lower it to “only” one thing !!!!!!!!
Repeal all White-collar crime
BATFEM? BMATFE? BEATMF?
Well done sir/ma’am. Beautiful.
I haven’t smoked weed in a long time but I don’t care if people do.
In my experience someone high as a kite on weed is far better than someone who’s drunk. But if you wanna get plastered that’s none of my business either.
It’s always been odd to me that what drugs are legal and which are illegal is essentially arbitrary. It drives a black market and creates an incentive for designer drugs that are way, way more dangerous in some cases and legal until they’re not. Then they’re reformulated and legal again. It’s the song that never ends and we should just stop singing it.
Sounds like the end of a couple wars to me. Lets do it.
Worst I ever did stoned was order $50 worth of Jack the Box at 3 AM for 2 people. And drive 20 MPH in a 30 zone.
As an employer, when given the choice, I’ll choose the non-pot smoker over the pot smoker. There are some responsible people that get high on their own time, but I’ve known too many pot smokers that get high on the job.
Depends on the person and the job. I’ve seen many weed smokers who worked their asses off, then I’ve seen some who’ d get high and weren’t worth a fuck. Same as booze. Funny story, one evening the night shift came in and I said to a fellow, ” Hey, did you hear there going to piss test everybody.” Then watched him run to all his friends with the rumor, he certainly let me know who was and who wasn’t. Also that bunch would all take break at the same time come back useless. The manager jumped their ass about it and they said,” but you let possum do it and he never gets jumped.” The manager said ,” Yeah,but he comes back in and works his ass off.” That was a restaurant. So it depends on the person.
“So it depends on the person.”
For sure. I worked with someone that worked great high, possibly better (because he was in a better mood). I also worked with someone who liked to smoke one in the morning before work. By mid afternoon, he was grouchy and worthless, and he never wanted to work late. From my point of view, it’s really more about client relations and liability than anything else.
As someone who used to smoke pot, that makes sense. Nobody I ever knew would use “responsibly” like they would a beer. Including myself. It would always start off “responsible” and within a month, I was a straight up addict. Even those who only use it in rare instances somehow always find a way to do it just before something you shouldn’t be high doing eventually. Even driving.
If you want to protect your crop, you have to have firearms, and hard men willing to use them.
I just cry and cuss, I’d never shoitzing anyone for stealing my weed. When I was a coke addict, different story.
In that case, where is your weed?
I was the same way about Pepsi. Nasty, addictive stuff.
Actually, I’m pretty sure those No Fear energy drinks really were addictive. Good stuff. I stick to black coffee these days.
True story. I’ve never tried any of those energy drinks.
Zero use for any mind altering anything. I’ve got to be 110% if and when the sht hits the fan.
I just wish people would realize how addicting it is, and the problems that come with it. You can’t be fucking high at work the same way you can’t be drunk at work. That said, it should be sold like spirits and any other “drug”. Someone should not have to pay for some fake ass “doctor” visit and pay the state if they want to smoke pot instead of have a beer, or with a beer… or whenever really. But the problem is testing. Lets say someone fucks up at work big time, and he is known to smoke some pot. How do you know he was not high then and there and that’s what caused the fuck up? Because I was a HUGE stoner, and I did some dumb shit, plus, it made me lazy. I was actually addicted. Fuck that false narrative that you can’t be addicted to pot, because you can. You can be addicted to a ton of weird shit.
“You can’t be fucking high at work the same way you can’t be drunk at work.”
Monty, I’m surprised you would make such a silly statement. I have been around humans drinking alcohol and/or smoking pot, and I would much rather have a stoner in my immediate vicinity than an alcoholic.
Monty, I hope you don’t follow your own advice and show up ‘drunk at work‘.
Give a five guys a bottle of whiskey and they’ll start a fight.
Give five guys a bag of pot and they’ll start a band.
Makes no matter mind to me…I prefer to smoke or chew some good ‘ol tobaccy whilst I be volleying lead.
I do not believe in gateway drugs, only poor/ absent parents.
I told my children the truth about marijuana & they used it when they were in their late teens, I do not. But I felt it was important to be truthful with them, so when I said something important to them, they would believe me.
My son has family & friends who have made poor choices, and it cost them jobs, money out of pocket & time behind bars. He is not perfect, but he has not follow them down that path.So I do not believe in gateway drugs or gateway family or gateway friends. Most everything is the lack of a parent or the lack of parenting.
I see MJ as a ‘possible’ alternative to those who take prescribed pain meds (opioids). Spinal and back injuries, broken things…..an alternative to pills and liver damage due to prolonged use of big pharma.
That said, not at work, no driving, no operating machinery ect, however being responsible is on the user not society.
It’s a worthwhile discussion and everyone has valid points in the comments that should be explored.
It’s apparent most of you here have never been around weed, let alone high, nor do you know anyone who does. Just reciting bullshit lies you’ve been told by the media of your choice since the 70’s. “They’re all lazy, they’re all dumb” or the “reefer madness” bullshit spouted above. I GUARANTEE you there is someone in your life, maybe not next to you, but someone close, with a “real job” (like maybe your doctor, or your friends lawyer, or the guy who runs the construction site to build your new home) that get high daily. The fact you think it’s some teenaged doped up idiot getting high to eat twinkies is ridiculous, ignorant, and quite frankly, stupid at this juncture. Short of living in an Amish community, or a FLDS compound, every single one of you has access to drugs within walking distance of your home, office, grocery store, everything.
It’s time to stop this ridiculous tirade of locking up stoners (and all other users quite frankly) over a damn plant. A plant. You gun people get mad about outlawing of a magazine because it’s “just a mag”. Well, either stand fast or get out of the way. Hypocrisy does nothing but make you look stupid.
Either freedom is ok, or it isn’t. If it isn’t, I’ll be happy to show you the door.
Federal regulation of guns or marijuana is irrelevant, as the federal government has no constitutional authority to regulate either one.
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