Given his stated support for red flag laws and “strong background checks,” many who support gun rights are getting understandably nervous that the President will go wobbly on gun control, striking a deal with Congressional Democrats.
It should be plain to him and anyone else who’s paying attention that if he does, he won’t get any credit from his political opposition for any ground given. Instead, caving in would only embolden the civilian disarmament industrial complex to press for still more.
Prominent voices are warning Trump that if he gives in to calls for even more restrictions on the right to keep and bear arms, he’ll suffer the same fate as George Bush I after violating his “read my lips” pledge. We can only hope that the President and his advisors are paying attention.
We know from experience that when Congress, state legislatures, or city councils react quickly and emotionally to devastating events, such laws usually bring tremendous negative consequences, sometimes totally undermining their stated purpose.
Many of the post-9/11 laws were overreaches that didn’t enhance national security. After a mass shooting in San Francisco in 1994, Sen. Dianne Feinstein (a former San Fran mayor) introduced an “assault weapons” ban. The bill was based on nothing, and during its ten years as law it did nothing to reduce gun violence.
Democrats are pushing again for more gun controls, and we can expect them to be just as ineffectual, while also trampling on the natural right to self-defense and the constitutional right to bear arms.
“Assault weapon” bans are foolish because they usually regulate guns according to their appearance, a cosmetic matter. Under the 1994 law, a legal pistol could become an illegal “assault weapon” if it was capable of being fitted with a flash suppressor.
The phrase “assault weapon” is intended to draw a distinction between weapons used for sport or self-defense on one hand, and those used for assault. But almost every potential assault weapon is already a highly valued defense weapon. The much-reviled AR-15 is the most popular gun in America. The millions of AR-15s in the U.S. are not owned in significant numbers by future shooters or by drug gangs, but overwhelmingly by law-abiding people who wish to defend their families or hunt large game.
– Washington Examiner editorial, Don’t do ‘anything’ about gun violence
Enact gun control, and the people who call you a NAZI will still hate your guts.
Enact gun control, and the people who voted you into office will start hating your guts.
Pretty much. The left likes to talk about voter depression and they’re goading Donald Trump into it. I may vote for other positions but I’ll vote third party for president if he starts pulling this stuff.
And that would be like F**king yourself in the A$$.
Well, I suggest you get YOUR base in line! If Prez. Trump starts voting like a Liberal Social Demo-Authoritarian, he’ll lose my vote for sure! I hope your listening Libertarians! Get YOUR candidates in line! No more crazy Gary Johnson’s or Comrade Weld’$ ! Find a good candidate I can get behind. Cause I think I’m getting off the Trump train 🚆 with ALL the Hobos on board!
It’s either TRUMP or gun confiscation & Socialism, there’s no in-between.
No, voting for a guy who says he will stop gun control, then enacts gun control by executive fiat, then supports more gun control, then signs more guns control (if this happens), then you vote for him again is fucking yourself in the ass.
If that’s what you think then your just an Idiot or liberal or someone that doesn’t deserve to own a gun cuz anyone else is for a gun ban. Trump hasn’t done anything yet & people like you are already condemning him…..So I’m guessing your are a Troll liberal democrap.
“It’s either TRUMP or gun confiscation & Socialism, there’s no in-between.”
It might be that those are both the same thing.
We’re standing by to see. If Trump is gun control, and the democraps are more gun control I’ll just buy ammo on election day and wait for my red flag visit.
“Read my lips…no new taxes…”
– George H.W. Bush
“If you want to keep your health insurance, you can keep your health insurance…”
– Barry Sotero
“I like to take the guns first, and worry about due process later…”
– Donald J. Trump
Listen to his reelection strategy. Every Trump supporter should watch this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b1ZZevSlRw&t=2m30s
I would suggest to Trump and the GOP they should keep in mind, lots of gun owners might just decide to take that day to go fishing. I for one am thoroughly sick of the empty promises, where is the Hearing Protection Act? Where is national reciprocity? While we are at it, where is the legislation that withholds federal funds from any state or locality that limits the arms or the size of magazine a citizen can have?
All the Republicans will do for us is give us lip service and sometimes stick a knife in our backs!
It has always been driven by voting for the least worst person. For gun owners, and folks who love freedom, Trump is the least shitiest presidential candidate. We want to maintain, if not increase our rights, not loose them. Not voting Republican is a vote for the Democrates. This will lead to further lost gun rights.
and when the republican votes/signs the same things the democommies do?
Silly ! Ideologies are for idiots! If Trump goes Liberal Social Demo-Authoritarian! I’m getting off the Trump Train 🚆!!! Cause it’s heading straight for an AMTRAK pile up!
Get TRUMP in line! “Due Process NOW!!! Follow the FU@$!ing Constitutional !!! Uphold our Rights and Liberties !!!!
The NRA has 5 million plus members. Whenever gun control issue develop this kind of momentum, the NRA lobbyists usually get busy reminding elected officials of just how many NRA members are in their districts and how those members WILL SURE AS HELL VOTE AGAINST THEM if they support gun-control. Both Democrats and Republican politicians are vulnerable to this very direct, and very predictable argument: if they move against the 2nd Amendment, move in favor of gun-control, they can kiss their political career goodbye. The only other lobbying entity with this kind of naked political power is the US Chamber of Commerce.
The question now—after all the shucking-and-jiving that’s been going on— is whether the NRA still has the internal discipline and organization will to step up it’s game and DO SOMETHING . . . If it allows a gun-ban of any kind to pass, if it allows a magazine limit of any kind to pass, if it allows gun-confiscation without meaningful due process, a lot of gun-owners may very well decide that there’s no difference between Republican politicians and Democrat politicians. And if that happens the sound of those political doors closing will be deafening.
The NRA has become a barge run aground! I certainly believe that it is NOT just mere coincidence! That It was an inside job to derail one of the largest constitutional rights organizations! Nothing says good bye to constitutional rights faster than the “Deep State” can!
” lots of gun owners might just decide to take that day to go fishing ”
I’m slowly coming around to this point of view, but not quite there yet.
If Trump is going to act like a Democrat, might as well let the Dems take control and deal with a known quantity. There are alternative strategies available beside the ballot box.
You’re foolish if you believe this is a Democrat/ President Trump issue. There’s just as many Republicans that are glad to step on our second amendment protected rights as there are Democrats.
Don’t get lulled into a false sense of security because you have a Republican representative.
Republicans just get to communism slower than the Democrats. Passing badly needed and sensible legislation.
I’m not sure they get there slower. There is more gun control passed under Trump than Obama and we’re not even at the end of his 1st term.
Yeah… except for the details that the Demokkkommies want to kill us and take our shit.
What a small, dark life you must lead, living in fear every moment.
You have armed yourself against childhood fears and huddle, lonely and confused in your bunker, gently fondling the barrel of your assault weapon.
No, my family has just seen vermin like you before. Last time, my great grandpa would up getting taken out by the NKVD and shot. You socialists are all genocidal vermin and your mask is slipping in the form of your mass shooters and your ANTIFA and “alt-right” foot soldiers.
Here’s an idea…..GTFO of this debate you sniveling little shit head….
I fondle my weapon while you fondle yourself… People like you….I swear..
By your screen name you imply you are from commiefornia.
If indeed this is so that makes you a californicator.
The Peoples Democratic Republic of California.
Also known as the home of Fruits, Nuts and Flakes.
Please, go away.
Surgi, your great grandpa was wanted by the NKVD? So you were from one of those shit hole countries, a traditional adversary of the US?
Are you going to return to where you came from as Trump suggests?
I got my citizenship the hard way. Unlike you commies, some of us didn’t have the privilege of magic dirt. If you like socialism so much why don’t you get the fuck out? I’m sure Europistan would love to have you.
pwrserge, did your family vote for (reformers of) the Communist Party in your country of birth, i.e., for the lesser evil, or did they stay home and did not vote at all?
If our only choice is to vote for the lesser evil every 4 years, then we have no choice at all. Threatening to stay home and making our concerns publicly heard before the election is the only real choice we have. If we will vote for President Trump no matter what, then President Trump can and will do whatever he wants and won’t care about us.
That’s hilarious… you think people in the Soviet Union got a choice. Right now, you have a choice between a party that may not be perfect but can be reformed and a party that will drag you outside and put a bullet in the back of your head. That’s not a difficult choice. Pretending there’s a third option is just a coward’s way of taking the bullet option.
If you don’t like the GOP candidate, that’s what primaries are for.
“Are you going to return to where you came from as Trump suggests?”
^^How to lose any credibility you might have in one sentence.
S9, our friend Sergei has told us how bad it is in the counttry his folks come from, he says they aren’t free, his Great-grandpa was even shot by the secret police in his home country.
Wouldn’t it be best for the people of that country to stay there and make things better as Donald Trump suggests, rather than coming to America?
That was exactly Donald Trump‘s message, read for yourself:
“ …originally came from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning government at all), now loudly……
….and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run. Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how….
….it is done. These places need your help badly, you can’t leave fast enough. I’m sure that Nancy Pelosi would be very happy to quickly work out free travel arrangements!”
S9, wouldn’t you say Putin’s government is corrupt?
Wouldn’t you say in his posts Sergei is “loudly and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run”?
Why wouldn’t president Donald Trump’s comments apply to Sergei?
libertarian or other party is not a viable option at this point…splits the vote and lets Dems/libs win…
The Libertarian Party came out of the closet and declared themselves to be ANTI-GUN. when they picked William Weld as their VP cannidate.
That’s what happens when you make legalizing marijuana more important than protecting your gun rights.
Nothing will happen period. President Trump said he supports red flag law with due process. The democrats would never go for that and nothing will be agreed upon to move forward and in the off chance it does it will be DOA in the senate.
The goal of the Democrats is to differentiate themselves from the GOP in order to grab the independent voters. They don’t need to pass anything, just present it, probably bloated with crazy stuff so no reasonable person would support it. They can then say the championed gun control to eliminate these terrible crimes and they were thwarted by the evil GOP and Trump.
I suspect expanded background checks will be the same way. In theory, if done right they could be implemented with minimal effect on law abiding citizens. However, they will bloat it with extras, make it expensive and painful for all and not put in reasonable exceptions, basically goading the Senate and/or Trump to kill it. Then they can whine all we wanted was sensible gun control …..
The Democrats said red flags and universal background checks are not enough. The senate said they will support red flags and something like the TAPS act. The NRA said they won’t support universal background checks but they support red flags. Trump wants age restrictions, universal background checks, a red flag law, forced institutionalization, corporate social media spying, etc.
Trump already passed two pieces of gun control. He already confiscated “guns” and destroyed them.
A bump stock is not a gun. Try harder. It was a retarded and unsafe workaround for the NFA registry ban. You want to be pissed about the NFA ban? Sure be pissed about the NFA ban. But the idea that Trump is confiscating guns is pure commie troll bullshit.
First of all, you are the communist, born and raised. Second, I put the word guns in quotations. Third, Trump redefined bump fire stocks as machineguns to get rid of them.
Try again, commie subverter. We [conservatives] see through your bad psychological operation. We know how you commies work.
I’ve punched people in the face for calling me a commie before. You’re awful brave behind a keyboard calling the descendants of a genocide the very thing that killed their family.
Ooh, watch out, an internet badass!
Yeah and ammunition isn’t “guns” either. Sounds like the sort of differentiation someone only makes if they want to put as much gun control in possible without calling it that.Or if they can’t see the world because their head is so far up Trump’s ass that they can’t see that he’s passed more gun control than Obama did in his whole term.
@pwrserge-
Trump banned any weapon that a bumpstock can be attached on. Fudds like you should stay at the kiddie table, when grown folks are talking about their rights.
You support gun control the same as the liberals. You are who the Founders intended the Second Amendment is to be used on in defense of Liberty..
You threatened the poster because he rightfully called you a commie which you are being with your support of trumps gun control. Resorting to violence over words is how you would get your cowardly commie arse shot by a Citizen.
“Trump banned every weapon a bump stock can be attached to.”
The single dumbest comment the world has ever seen.
“The single dumbest comment the world has ever seen.”
No, it is not. It is legal precedent. Since a bump stock converts a semi-automatic firearm to a fully-automatic firearm with minimal skills required to attach it, any semi-automatic firearm that accepts a bump stock is therefore readily convertible to a fully-automatic firearm. Such readily convertible firearms are considered fully-automatic firearms under existing ATF rules (see open bolt firearms, for example). The ATF simply has not made that determination for ARs, yet.
“First of all, you are the communist, born and raised.”
Wow. This is just… wow. The level of mean-spirited willful ignorance behind this is at supernova levels.
Imagine walking up to a German Jew in 1950 and calling him a “Nazi born and raised”… Yeah… That’s the sort of class we’re talking about here.
Serge: That’s a valid point but it misses the overarching point IMHO.
This is gonna be fairly unpopular for me to say and if it gets a lot of views I’m sure some of the very people I’m talking about will out themselves with flourish.
POTG have a problem that’s actually a problem from within. That problem can be boiled down to, pardon my French here, stupid, lazy motherfuckers.
By that I mean people who constantly run their goddamn mouth (fingers) about shit they have zero clue about and do it on topics of importance. It’s not just occasional and they’re not asking questions that might seem silly but honest, they’re just being insulting, arrogant fucks because they think it’s fun. They think it’s fun because they’re stupid self-centered pricks. People who don’t bother to study anything and, really, have no logical reasoning behind the shit they say. There’s no “foundation” to their point of view. It’s emotional shit just like the antis but in the opposite direction. They’re dumbfucks who say things like “Muh God given rights!” or “Shall not be infringed!” in half their posts as if that’s anything more than just intellectually weak virtue signalling circlejerkery. As if they actually believe it’s going to advance the ball on gun/civil rights. Sure, toss in a Molon Labe occasionally but when that’s the bulk of what you contribute, the sum of your contribution is negative. Sorry, it is.
Such people are prone to undermining our position far more than any anti ever could by publicly displaying their tomfuckery. They make us look like exactly the assholes the antis have painted us as. They’re not just dead-weight. They’re a millstone around our necks because they’re the ones who soak up the lion’s share of the attention, and as teenage girls eventually realize, not all attention is good attention. Like that dipshit in a Missouri Wal-Mart. Does he have the right to troll like that? Sure. But he’s not helping us at all because now we have to spend time in damage-control due to the argument of whether or not OC should be legal at all that he kicked off. The resources we have to devote to countering his silly action would be better spent elsewhere. His silly action is a waste of POTG’s resources. His childlike emotional bullshit caused him to do something legal but really, really stupid and we’re ALL gonna pay for it to some degree.
Not only do they undermine our position, juxtaposed against the really rather united front that the antis have, but they try and often succeed in starting unnecessary internecine conflict within POTG, further dividing us and making us less able to respond cohesively to the antis. It’s not light-hearted “caliber warz”, it’s straight out personal attacks on someone who may have just said something in an unclear way or who holds a slightly different position in terms of tactics.
Are there debates to be had on tactics and strategy? Yes, absolutely. Might those get a bit heated? Sure, but we’re all adults here. Er, well mostly. For example, I don’t agree with everything you say and tdiinva and I have argued as well. It doesn’t mean I dislike either of you or am going to star screaming at you like I’m some sort of overgrown child. I can see where people might have thought tdi and I had some sort of deep dislike of each other but I never felt that way and apparently neither did tdi. I felt that tdi has a different point of view, probably reached by consideration of his personal experience, and they they argued those points vociferously but civilly. Ultimately we agreed to disagree. Done. No biggie at all.
Where I draw the line is when someone decides to go full-fucktard with personal insults which is getting to be more and more common here on TTAG. But even then I tend to let it slide because everyone has bad days where they may not react “normally”. However, when it’s a pattern of behavior over time however my patience starts to wear thin.
IMHO, this kind of self-destructive behavior is becoming more of a problem here. There are some days I wonder if many of the people who post here aren’t just agent provocateurs here to shit-stir with their trolling. Personally I’m tiring of it rather rapidly.
The problem is one you can test on pretty much any message board: The average intelligence and disposition of it’s regulars can be tested with trolling. If a troll gets mostly reasoned and rational arguments, or is almost universally ignored then that’s probably a board of actual adults. If it results in >30% “GFY!” sort of replies that’s probably not a board worth using because it has a high percentage of adult babies. TTAG is sliding towards the latter IMO.
@strych9
I don’t actually post here much but I read almost everything.
You have just spoken some real, heavy truth about this place. It’s been visible for awhile now to me and I really don’t like it. Every time I read an article and see the kind of vindictive replies and obvious trolling I think to myself, “What would someone looking for information and insight that just happened by think of this stuff?”
Sadly, what you describe isn’t isolated to this place or even this topic of conversation. It’s showing up everywhere and in all facets of internet communication. It is toxic to any possibility of civil debate.
It’s the internet. It’s not worth getting riled up over. And it’s not even a forum where people make accounts and establish a sort of culture.
Anyone who gets hot under the collar by being trolled here must not have learned anything in middle school.
I agree. PDJT knows how to pretend to go along, then does like Lucy with the football. Done it before.
Since state Red Flag laws completely do away with due process protections, insisting that due process be included is a poison pill that Dems will refuse to swallow.
In CA & CO, any schlub on the street can Red Flag you.
More 4D beer pong, like with the bump stock ban, right?
You see a final ruling in the bump stock case you want to share with the class trollo?
If the bump stock ban gets ruled unconstitutional, then we are just back where we started, except President Trump and the NRA have already agreed to ban them. We will be in the mess of a must-pass federal bump stock ban bill. Trollo!
More 4D beer pong I guess. LOL.
Except that if the bump-stock ban gets ruled unconstitutional they CAN’T ban them. That’s the point.
“Except that if the bump-stock ban gets ruled unconstitutional they CAN’T ban them. That’s the point.”
What a bunch of nonsense! Got a law degree from PowerBall?
The bump stock ban’s constitutionality is being challenged on the method being used and not on the item being banned. The government can ban bump stocks using the “dangerous and unusual weapons” clause of the DC vs Heller decision You yourself said in this thread “It was a retarded and unsafe workaround for the NFA registry ban.”
A flag law with due process is a oxymoron.
‘…or hunt large game.’?
The 5.56 is now a moose cartridge?
I have a AR chambered in 6.5Grendel and one in 300blackout and either one of them will drop a moose in it’s tracks.
And neither one is a 5.56 caliber round.
the have 50 BMG AR conversions as well…still not a 5.56 round…LOL
Yep. .223/5.56 still = an over powered .22.
BTW. We in the US are about the only country that calls the M16 and variants an “assault rifle” or battle rifle.
Most every one else classes it as a sub (as in pistol caliber) machine gun.
A good small game/varmint round at distance, but a crappy battle rifle.
It is also kind of telling that the first US military branch to adopt the rifle was the Air Force.
A 300 BLK will drop a moose in its tracks? That’s really interesting. My 300 BLK hunting load is the Barnes 110 grain TTSX that runs about 2380 FPS from a 16″ stainless upper. With that load, I heart shot a 4 point buck (already wounded by another hunter). The buck fell, hopped back up, and ran another 50 yards before he went to the field in the sky. A few hours later I shot a 6 pointer with a heart/lung shot. He fell, ran 75-100 yards, and was anchored for good with a spine shot.
The previous season I heart shot a 6 pointer with a 165 grain GMX superformance running about 2780 fps from a 20″ Rem 700 LTR. That buck ran 40 yards before expiring.
My DRT animals have been with .45-70 325 grain LeverEvolution and .30-06 ballistic tips running hot (150 grains at about 3100 FPS through a 24″ stainless Win 70). Anchoring an animal as big as a moose with only a 300 BLK or 6.5 Grendel is really impressive.
The venerable .30-30 has probably still taken more eastern moose than any other cartridge, but the .300 Blackout isn’t a .30-30, despite what some claim. A 20″ .30-30 shooting a 170gr bullet will have more velocity at 100 yards than a 150gr has out of the muzzle of a 16″ .300 Blackout.
Obliterating a deer’s heart is only a guarantee that he’ll drop within 100 yards. Dropping an animal in it’s tracks requires disconnecting it’s brain. So yes, if you can hit the spinal column a 6.5 Grendel or .300 Blackout will certainly drop a moose in it’s tracks.
What, if you’re standing next to it with the muzzle in its ear?
After you spot the moose go find your moose anchor and tie the rope to a stout tree near the moose. Then sneak up vewy vewy quiet like and ram the anchor into the moose’s butthole. Then run like cwazy and wait for the moose to calm down. Then you can sneak up ( again be vewy vewy quiet) and shoot the ,moose. If he just ends up with a blackened face and seems rather mad then its time to run like cwazy again.
My theory is that Trump is always looking to appear to be the reasonable one then tie the stuff the Dems want to something he wants, knowing that they’ll reject it and they’ll look like the unreasonable ones. Not that I don’t think Thedonald isn’t shaky on the 2nd Amendment, but I doubt he intends to actually strike any deals with Aunt Nancy.
Exactly…
While not “smoke and mirrors”, it’s more like a fentanyl fog he spreading so the dems will lose focus…
“Trump is always looking to appear to be the reasonable one”
You have got to be kidding, are you seriously talking about the stable genius with lots of great words?
Was it reasonable to propose “we take the guns first and worry about the courts later”?
I understand your position and respect it. I am more of a believer to “hear” what he does and not what he “says”. But I am watching both him and McConnell closely my vote is not a foregone conclusion. Proposing for me, is trash talk. It could be misdirection, could be not. I don’t like to hear trash talk but nothing came out of that last trash talk of take the guns first; nor dreamers deal, nor other trash talk. But I respect your opinion and know that some of us would prefer not to see any more “proposals”. Can’t change the way these guys (politicians) have done business all their lives, talking bull 24/7/365
Trumps own comments show his lack of intelligence more clearly than any comment I could draft.
“But Trump’s snipe occurred just days after the president mistakenly referred to a mass shooting in “Toledo,” instead of Dayton, Ohio, where it actually occurred — and a month after he talked about airports in the Revolutionary War. There was also the time he mixed up Russia and the Soviet Union, made up the country of “Nambia,” called Apple CEO Tim Cook “Tim Apple,”and referred to 7/11 when he meant to say 9/11. There’s much more — and that’s not to mention the countless misspellings that routinely pepper the president’s tweets.”
I understand where 49er is coming from and I DO NOT respect it.
He is protected under the first amendment, nothing else.
And I am being generous.
I attribute those to something I too suffer from. It’s called getting older. Today I went to crack an egg for breakfast and caught myself heading towards the garbage can. A brief chuckle as I corrected my path towards the skillet and all was well. But senior moments do happen and since I am not in the public much mine remain hidden.
Having them does not mean I’m ready for the nursing home anymore than do they mean Trump is.
They just mean our brains do not always do what we want it to do or say.
Look at Biden, he is having lots of senior moments now days, 3 sexes, poor kids can do just as good as white kids etc etc. I actually feel somewhat sorry for him, he should have stayed out of the races and enjoyed free time with his wife.
There is a country close in spelling to Nambia called Namibia, a place where we could make a fortune selling water.
@Miner49er
Toledo, Dayton, it’s all the same. Except for that sh!thole Akron.
Miner… do we really want to play the politician gaffe game? Because Creepy Uncle Joe is an endless supply.
Here’s my favorite… “Poor kids are just as smart as white kids.” ~Joe Biden, August, 2019
Lest we forget, it was Jokin’ Joe that said the shootings were in Houston and Michigan. At least Trump got the right states.
And it was Jokin’ Joe that advised us that we’ll need F-15’s if we go the armed resistance route. Apparently shotguns won’t be enough. OK, I’m in– where can I get one? Brownell’s? Maybe I can get one slightly used from the Saudis.
miner. It must really burn you to know that Trump, a man so inferior to you in intellect has gone so far in life and you have gone no where. All your liberal arts education has left you in a dead end and he’s still steaming along. 10 years from now people will still have him on the tv and in lecture halls. 10 years from now you’ll still be spitting venom and rage on the interwebz.
TDS in action. That’s our miner49er.
He already said he is making a deal with Nancy and he is working with Democrats. That he will get the party to support it and he doesn’t care what the NRA wants.
I think he believes his identitarian supporters are no longer on his side and he has to pander to the Democrats to have any chance of reelection. The numbers don’t appear to be in Trump’s favor for a popular vote victory and the electoral college doesn’t appear to be something he can get again.
I don’t know what his chances are, but a Democrat in the Whitehouse would reinvigorate the gun industry.
The NRA said Obama was the greatest gun salesman ever. That is accurate.
Obama did a good job making us buy guns and get our permits. He even gave us bump fire stocks and arm braces. Everyone thought Obama was trying to trick us into buying arm braces and bump fire stocks, but his administration was serious when they said it was good to go. Obama not banning arm braces allowed a huge new part of the industry to pop up and continue to thrive today. Then came Trump, he took bump fire stocks away within 3 years and blamed Obama for allowing us to have them.
Obama changed the culture more than he changed the law. He has to live in America with us. Last thing he wanted to do was piss off a bunch of white men with guns. He tried half heartily in order to appease his fellow Democrats and at the same time not anger men with guns.
Trump is doing the same thing Obama did. He knows he still has to go back to New York and be surrounded by his fellow Democrats. He knows the people he is doing business with in New York are not Republicans. He doesn’t want to enrage armed Antifa nor the average New Yorker before he leaves office. He is going to toy with Republicans then side with Democrats on his way out for his personal benefit. It’s only logical.
He also stated his support for the NRA directly afterwards as well and how he wasnt in for another AWB. Come on, TTAG. Its not going to hurt you to present a balanced pov.
Have you not paid attention to Friday’s comments? How he was going to “bring the NRA around” to “intelligent background checks”? Or Mitch McConnell considering Manchin-Toomey again? Or Mitch not ruling out a AWB?
Stop the Trump worship. He’s supporting most of the stuff that Obama pushed for after San Bernadino. We should be just as opposed.
Are you going to be a media mouthpiece and try and tell us he’s Hitler, too? Apparently you missed the lawful framework he was talking about in context to getting the NRA to come around. You also missed how he repealed Obama’s firearms on gov’t land action. Or his mental health exemptions. You’ll no doubt point back to bump stocks, so pay attention, because i’m going to school you and others on Trump 101.
Trump politically Conservative Neutral. This means that while he leans conservative, he works within the framework of established law. It’s why you don’t get the instant gratification of executive orders from him like the Obamaites did. Its why he doesn’t just grab all the money he needs to build a wall or ram other policy through. Trump is the Executive office and he works that role as the constitution mandates. In fact, he is probably one of the most constitutional presidents I’ve witnessed since paying attention to politics. Congress has a job and whether he likes it or not, largely defers to their realm of authority. This is simply my unbiased take of the man, not a fanboy as you describe.
People often confuse his talk with his action, and Trump talks A LOT. He talks to provoke reactions. He talks to keep his name inserted in the media. He talks to assert indirect control over a situation. If he talks about you, you are either a good dog or a bad dog. If you are bad dog, he lets the world know about it with a megaphone until you agree with him and then you are a good dog, whereupon he lavishes praise upon you. He also speaks loudly on issues such as shootings and red flag laws.
Here’s what you can expect of him and what he’s already done– He will sound off loudly with his oopinion and already has. Something needs to be done to keep these idiots from doing this shit. If you disagree, it’s hard to see you as a human being with a heart, IMO. But he is going to let congress do its job. Like the bumpstocks. You may not like it, but that is their job, not his. He is also trying to influence an outcome to a lawful one, ie, not some random idiot judge making a decision just because. he has stated this.
I am a fan of trump, but its not blind worship. he’s not perfect and you won’t get everything you want out of him. But he’s not the gun evil you people are making him out to be.
And this is why we keep losing our rights! Fudds come out of the woodworks to prevent holding our own accountable. More 4D beer pong on the bump stock ban I see. LOL.
By the way, talk matters too, not only actions! President Trump supporting gun control through his voice makes it more likely to be enacted at the federal and state level as he gives cover to Republicans.
PS: Bump stocks are banned and will stay banned no matter what. $100,000,000 in privately-owned property has been outlawed by your “one of the most constitutional presidents”. There was no due process. There was no compensation. But there was you, justifying all of it.
But here’s the problem with that… Are you really going to argue that something shouldn’t be done about people like this? People that shoot up shit for the whatever reason. Now lets be clear here– Whatever gets needs to be constitutional and so far, I haven’t heard Trump suggest otherwise. He’s even stated within a lawful framework.
Now do I agree with signing off on congress on bumpstocks? No, I don’t. But again, that was originated in congress and my supposition of Trump being conservative neutral plays out in his decision– The representatives we elected came up with a law, passed it in both houses then presented it. I don’t agree with him signing it, but that’s the representative republic we live in. Trump wouldn’t have to execute the sacrificial lamb of bumpstocks if we didn’t have other problems. I can point the finger at him, but then I have to look back at the republican controlled senate that won’t support him on anything even though he is, by all accounts, winning the war of public opinion. They can’t even keep their word on repealing Obama care in spite of voting against the it on principle over forty times.
On to red flag issues. He has mentioned talks within the framework of the constitution. Unlike bumpstocks, there’s a considerable spectrum of actions that can be taken beyond a process that strips an individual of due process. I’m fine with letting him explore those. I’m not fine with giving a judge carte blanche abaility to strip a person of their firearm based on the bare say-so of some idiot with an axe to grind. AZ is pushing that and I have a problem with it.
My thing is that I don’t look at Trump as the perfect president, but he’s the wake up call we needed. A McCain or Romney or another Bush wouldn’t have turned the media inside out to reveal their true motive. Hollywood has been exposed as complete wackos. While he hasn’t been aggressively pro-gun, I’m not worried about him like I would Obama pushing Holder into clandestine ops. The judges he appoints are mostly conservative, and he’s internationally pro american.
Frankly, I think a McCain/Romney/Bush/Ryan would have caved on gun control by now. Hillary? lol. I hope we can get more out of Trump, but for now, I seem him as a shift in momentum against the liberal side, and that includes republicans pretending to be conservative. I’m willing to give him the space to do as much damage to the media/Hollywood/political left as possible.
What woul be the alternative to voting for Trump? If he goes for more restrictions, we will punish him by voting for the nutty DNC candidate, or maybe Bernie? Yeah that will really show him and then honest gun owners will expirience outright confiscation. Not good, he isn’t ignorant, but threatening to not vote for him is. He is the best thing gunowners have going for them. Name another president that has so openly supported gun ownership.
I’m not voting for him. I’m either not voting or writing in a candidate. I never did it before but I am tired of politicians not abiding by the constitution. All he had to do was stay one more amendment more constitution abiding than a democrat.
he is not even close.
It ain’t over until the fat lady sings; neither this current round of assaults on or rights or the bump stock ban are close to being settled.
If the Republicans and Trump get clever; they can write legislstion that, in the end, will actually totally benefit us without giving in to the Democrats. And they can call it “comprehensive gun control legislation”
If the Democrats are foolish enough to vote for it, we’ll thank them. If they vote against it; Republicans can claim the Democrats opposed and voted against “common sense” gun control legislation.
We’ll have to carefully read each proposed law before going against it. Manchin – Toomey could be tweeked just a little bit and be totally in our favor. Let’s pull it back out an tweek it.
Well you know maybe if he just didn’t do unconstitutional things? I mean there is no such thing as pro gun legislation the only type of pro gun stuff they can do is repeal things. Instead the only direction it’s going to go is add to it.
Most republicans are not pro gun. I don’t understand how anyone can expect what you are saying. If something passes it won’t be good. It can only be in degrees of bad.
@ biatec. You should support a legal remedy to “gun control”.
The only legal form of gun control is to repeal the second amendment.
This takes an act by congress and approval by a majority of the states.
This crap that tries to end run the Constitution is just that, crap.
How ’bout you and your ilk wake up and smell the manure.
That was my point dave. You either didn’t read what I said or didn’t understand it. All gun control is a violation. there can’t be pro gun laws because it’s not the federal governments place to make any laws regarding ownership, sale or carry of weapons of any kind.
I agree the only way to legally make gun control is to repeal the 2a. It would still be infringements on our rights if they did that.
Biatec:
Manchin-Toomey relaxed many current requirements such as taking the NICS hold wait time down from 3 days to 48 hours, allowing transfers between family (with an expanded the definition of “family”) & friends (as long as the sale was not advertised online or in a publication – bulletin board at the gun club OK), allowed out of state purchases from FFLs of handguns without shipping to an in-state FFL (i.e. – if you are travelling by Bud’s and in Kentucky and you are from another state, you can just buy and take possession of the gun with a NICS check at Bud’s) and specifically bans a Federal firearms registry; all in exchange for requiring background checks for sales advertised in a publication or online between strangers. So, Manchin – Toomey isn’t great but it is a step forward and could be made better.
If you take this amendment and further reduce the NICS hold time down to 24 hours, mandate that the definitions of family & friends be the minimum for exemption under all state laws, and specifically also ban any State registry, we’d be getting a lot.
The Left is trying to go incrementally to ban guns; we must go incrementally in the opposite direction.
it validates the position of a privilege instead of a right. Most republicans see it that way. People confuse rights and privileges. That is too little to be anything. That is way smaller incriminates than the dems stuff. The nfa was not a small increment compared to that, 1968 gca, 86 machine gun ban.
Getting one of those repealed would be a small increment or a court nullifying it as anti Constitution. It would just feel big to us.
If I agreed that that was good it would just mean none of it matters anyway. Every year we lose more. We have not gained in a century. The closest thing to a victory, gain or increment was the assault weapons ban sunsetting.
that will basically guarantee a dem/lib win…splitting the vote….but vote your conscience and feel better…
I wish the libertarians were a viable option
Well, the Libertarian Party had gun controllers for candidates for President/Vice President in 2016.
Don’t vote. If you vote, you only have yourself to blame. Openly supporting gun rights?!? LOL! I would hate to see him not support gun rights!
An abstention or third party vote is just as good as a vote for Demokkkommies. Pretending that the Demokkkommie party isn’t out to destroy our way of life utterly is delusional.
Thing is the, the Republicans are just a different shade of ‘Demokkkommie’. They have already abandoned fiscal responsibility in favor of buying people votes with their own money. They have a history of redistributing wealth and social engineering as much as the Democrats. Their will be no non-socialist on Republican side of the ballot. The US is already a socialist country more than most in Europe. The only thing we have left is the 2nd amendment and the Republican look like they are going to start rolling on that if the mass shootings keep happening. We are f&^*d either way.
“Fiscal responsibility” is a myth. The we need to put out big boy pants on and start acting like the imperial power that we are. Right now, our navy protects trillions of dollars in shipping all over the world. It’s time we charged a toll for that from countries too pathetic to maintain their own navies.
Yeah not voting is just plain stupid but some try to make sound like they are righteous by not voting. Kind of like cutting off your foot and saying “I sure showed him” . There has never been a presidential or congressional candidate that I agreed with 100 percent and they all have positions on something that bothers me a bit but I have to vote for the ones that best represent my interests on the most important issues to me and trust the most. The democrats are laughing their asses off about all the butt hurt gun owners who will not vote in 2020 that are going to give them a grand slam victory in 2020 and then they can pass all the unconstitutional gun and immigration laws they want. Once they give citizenship to 10 million more democrat voters there will be no going back but the gun owners who stayed home on election sure showed Donald Trump who is the boss.
If Trump signs anti-gun rights legislation; we’d have been better off with Hilary and a Republican-majority Congress.
We made out better under Obama than we are making out under Trump (except that the judicial appointments may strike down the stuff that does get passed).
Sorry, Max– can’t buy in to that one.
There are no circumstances– absolutely NONE– that would have made any of us better off with Hillary in the White House. Absolutely none. Well, maybe the Clintons would have been better off.
Can we have Obama back? Please?
Best darn gun salesman that there ever was.
If he loses we ensure the Republicans know why. Maybe they’ll finally nut up.
If a Democrat wins and they go after guns the good news is the Trump fans would actually fight against it instead of telling us “He’s the only choice,” and accepting new gun control laws.
Other than some loud angry young people the Bernie burn is more of a fizzle. Get him on the ballot and Trump will be able to brag about how he swept the polls with the largest vote in history. Pretty sure Pocahontas would also give him a huge win.
Blah blah blah…drumph has shown he’s no friend of the 2A. I don’t put my trust in any man save the MAN JESUS CHRIST. Clearly Trump will push for more gun control. WE need to stand and fight(NRA meme).
Trump knows he is a one term president. Put in place to take the rap for the coming dollar collapse, and nationalism with him. So he will push as much gun control as he can. We’ve already lost bump stocks. More losses ahead.
Yeah, the Democrats candidate field is just so awesome.
If Trump is a one term president then any gun control he pushes is irrelevant. Come 2021, you’ll be told to either turn in your guns, or get in the cattle car. Or both.
I’m ready to deal with that.
We can’t let them do what they have in China, Korea, Vietnam, etc.
These Democrats and Republicans are trying to subvert our culture piece by piece until there is a cultural revolution that leads to communism. They never stand for American ideals. There is going to be a “North-South” conflict like they created in east Asia, it will be the conservatives versus everyone else.
I am around many people who escaped those nations because of leftism. They don’t support the proposed policies from Democrats and Republicans. They don’t want another repeat. We got a bunch of “weapons of war” and we won’t give to you. The Korean and Vietnamese Americans I am around are ready and willing.
How about we deal with one problem at a time? Destroying the open marxists takes priority.
We can deal with the leftists in America when they overreach and spark a defensive uprising. Let them push everyone into a corner and threaten our liberty. When they do that we will take them all out. We can’t let them surround us and close in slowly. With our back against the wall we only need to worry about what is in front of us.
We can’t deal with the leftism in this country when the people are slowly being turned into commies.
We stand up for our principles and defend the attacks with a passion. We don’t allow them to setup their commie policies like the Russians did. We don’t let them spy on us, create a system for informants, forcibly institutionalize us because we are politically opposed to them and disarm us because we might be a threat to them in the future. We don’t let them create a list that they will use later to execute raids and assassinations.
You deal with the problem immediately. You don’t let it grow until it takes over the body. Cut it out as soon as you see it.
Brave talk from somebody who probably never heard a shot fired in anger.
I agree with stredford. What is the alternative to Voting for Trump? Vote for the Democrat? Don’t vote for POTUS at all? More States have enacted Laws that mandate ALL their Electoral College Votes go to the winner of the State’s Popular Vote, and it is still the EC Vote that elects POTUS. California, Illinois and New York (total 104 EC Votes) will go Democrat no matter what, as will several others. The EC is everything (for now).
From a pure mathematical perspective, not voting for Trump is not a vote for the opposition. It may seem like it, but that is coming from emotion rather than logic. The reason is because the his opponent is also working for your vote and from that candidate’s perspective not voting at all is also a vote for Donald Trump. Both statements can not be true at the same time. If not voting at all results in the same truth for both sides, they cancel each other out.
Not voting for either is a legitimate option.
Yeah… I’m sure the Demokkkommies would be all over “winning your vote”… A protest vote or non-vote is just one less dead person or illegal that the DNC has to get to vote.
Trump knows Republicans have nobody else to vote for at this point.
Is there any other Republican that is going to try seek the nomination in 2020?
I voted for him in big part as a vote against Hillary. I don’t agree with everything he says, does or tweets.
If I did, that would make me mentally ill and part of a cult. LOL
In exchange of so-called “gun control” laws Trump wants Democrats to accept Draconian border and immigration laws (and maybe a wall or two) for which the Demos will never accept. That way Trump will save face by saying the “Dems won’t negotiate” and the Dems will blame Trump for continued “gun violence”. Everything will stay the same and it’s a win-win situation for all.
that would appear to be the best strategy at this stage
ask for a wall…10,000+ more border patrol and CBP
deportations…including DACA…
everify mandatory
end to sanctuary states/cities
add it to a comprehensive immigration bill…see what happens
I couldn’t stoop so low as to vote for Trump in 2016 and I’ll not do so in 2020. I voted for a write-in. Not that it made any difference, my state is a “Red” state, it went to Trump.
The time to stop a con artist like Trump was in the primaries and the Republican convention. That failed as too many people were happy to be made fools of by Trump.
many “red” states are going purple…and eventually blue…with all the legal voters that come from illegal aliens…due to birthright citizenship
that…and folks from the north retiring to the south…bringing their dem/lib votes with them
and then there is California…sending out their dem/libs to elsewhere…escaping the high prices/taxes…again taking their dem/lib votes with them
Your logic is moronic…
Your teeth have termites.
If President Trump signs any of these Nazi anti gun laws just submitted by our Treasonous Congress then he will not get my vote. I voted for him because he said, “I will always defend the Second Amendment. I PROMISE I won’t let you down”.
YOU ARE EITHER A OATH KEEPER AND A PATRIOT OR YOU ARE A OATH BREAKER A WORTHLESS TREASONOUS TRAITOR TO THE CONSTITUTION !!!!!
I agree. Off your point a little but I like how we all use the term they have taught us to use “gun control” really it implies evil guns need controling but the truth is it is “people control” The second doesn’t grant the right, it is only there to protect the inalienable right granted by the creator. It feels like western civilization is under attack like never before. Granting a background check system the power to deny a persons right will only be ubused by those who weild it. We used to raise our children right with morals and respect, and it took effort, thats now mostly gone, that is the place to start.
Every single one of you who is proclaiming you didn’t vote in 2016 has already emboldened the democrat gun-grabbers. Instead of a several-point victory which Trump would have had if you voted Republican, the dems claimed they “won” the popular vote and only lost by a slim margin nationally. They’ve been fighting everything everywhere all the time since then. Republicans need to win by a huge majority to tell the socialists that their platform is rejected.
What has Trump accomplished anyway? He’s put two conservative justices on the Supreme Court and put almost 150 judges on the appeals courts and district courts, all of whom have lifetime appointments and will be protecting the Constitution during their terms. He might get the chance to put another judge on the Supreme Court and will probably clear 200 judges on the other federal courts before the end of his first term.
If you engage in this arrogance again, proclaiming yourself above the fray, unwilling to even go to the polls to vote against the democrats when they have clearly and repeatedly stated that they WILL take your guns, then you are part of the problem. You are giving the dems the edge they need to win. You are contributing to the loss of our rights. Stop it. Go vote not just for Trump, but for Congress, the House and Senate, the judicial appointments, the leadership of the FBI, the Justice Department, INS and ICE, national defense, fair trade etc etc etc. It really, really matters in a close race and every election is now a close race. Vote at the state level to prevent gerrymandering and other election shenanigans, to ensure rational people are on school boards, to make sure that zoning boards don’t just sell public land to mega corporations and on and on. It all makes a difference.
The dems know it and are working every angle every day. Are you really going to sit by while they have armies of supporters chipping away at everything like mad beavers?
Agreed.
Also, all this talk about Trump. I wonder how much ire is being directed at the traitors in both houses of Congress that are even making is something for him TO sign.
For one, Tillis has got to go. That guy has been a nightmare.
JR?
Long time, no see, man!
Yup; went into lurk mode for a while. Wondering who of the old crew are still around. Recognize a few names yet. 🙂
Yeah. Kind of sad that out of a country with 350 million +/- only about 62 million voted for Trump
Not counting the dems, where were the rest of the people?
Don’t vote/don’t whine.
A federal red flag law, written with due process as part of the law would be a great way to stop red flag laws in many states. The supreme court could demand due process, making state laws illegal.
There are people that are damaged and maybe should NOT have firearms available, let an actual doctor or a judge decide – if they get it wrong, they are held accountable.
If the government takes your protection away, then maybe they need to keep a better watch to make sure that person is safe.
Due process?
You’ve discovered a magic potion which forces judges to follow the law?
Remember the law in Vermont, that allows taking guns from a person who is determined to be a threat? Remember that law being used to clean out the gun safe of someone who was never accused of being a threat, merely because his nephew knew somebody who was accused of being a threat (and that threat was already in custody, which rendered him not a threat)???
The federal government has no jurisdiction here!
There is nothing that prevents SCOTUS today to declare sate red flag laws illegal due to a lack of due process. The Firearms Policy Coalition just won a case on gun possession prohibition due to a lack of due process for mental commitment: https://www.firearmspolicy.org/fpc-pa-wilborn-court-victory.
People who are an extreme danger to others should not be out in the streets. Taking their firearms away and not giving them any help to deal with their issues doesn’t stop mass murder. It just changes the method.
The government has absolutely no duty to protect you: DeShaney vs. Winnebago, Town of Castle Rock vs. Gonzales and Warren v. District of Columbia.
Firstly, it was/is the fault of the ACLU and weak spine politicians of both parties that got us here, today, in this F-ed up mess.
Second, wouldn’t it take a person victimized by a red flag law to have standing in taking the case to the SCOTUS?
I’m not a lawyer, so I’m just asking.
You mean like the family of the person killed in Maryland during the execution of a red flag law confiscation order?
17 states and DC have some type of red flag laws. Most victims of red flag laws don’t even have the means to fight them in the court in the first place. That is not a bug! It’s a feature. Take the guns first, due process later means that there isn’t a due process for those that can not afford it.
You all please remember that the psychology professions are populated and dominated by lefty progressives and guns-are-scary feminists.
ANY due process law (fed, state, local) puts these very same people in the catbird seat. THEY will decide your fitness to have guns.
Would you trust these people to get it right?
Red flag laws cannot be enacted. They would start a slide into confiscation.
OR, how did your last encounter with divorce court/family law go for you. RED FLAG COURTS WILL GIVE YOU THE SAME EXPERIENCE!
Act in haste, get slammed by SCOTUS. Enact stuff that is too far out and it be 5-4 decisions.
Sure. Ten years of litigation later with hundreds of thousands of dollars of costs and fees.
What damage is done while that is working its’ way through the courts?
It’s like an officer who just wants to get drugs off the streets so he makes a bad arrest knowing it will be thrown out but the arrest is made and the drugs are confiscated.
Only these aren’t drugs. They’re your Constitutional right to self-defense. You’ll have none left if the Dems get into power. They’ll take them anyway. If you want to complain you can foot your legal bill against the full power of a Democrat controlled and directed Department of (in)Justice.
The President of the GOA told Shannon Bream on late night news this past Friday that if the congress and Trump pass universal background checks and red flag laws that gun owners are staying home November 10, 2020.
He’s thrown down the gauntlet and its now up to us to back him up. Get the word out.
Call and email the Whitehouse and call and email your senators. Be reasonable, but have your voice be heard.
Don’t like the NRA? Same here. Support the FPC, Calguns, and others.
Lots of talk on TTAG is therapeutic but not helpful. Right now, the anti-gunners are making way more noise than the pro-gunners. Maybe because they don’t have jobs, and thus have time on their hands, but the clammor is still there.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/
We know he is clueless on guns but, in a tyrannical field of Communist running for Potus he is the lesser of the 20 evils who all want guns banned!
Get all ur lazy ass gun owners off the couch and write a letter…wait the GOA did it for you to all the Republican Senators here!
Support the GOA,FPC,SAF or give up ur guns!
https://gunowners.org/action-alert-your-senators-need-to-hear-from-you/
Would any of you accept NICS checks on private sales to strangers (not friends-family-coworkers) for:
1. National reciprocity with preemption.
2. Silencers being removed from the NFA.
3. Banning all “gun free” zones & requiring any private owners of property open to the public to be responsible for their visitor’s safety if the prohibit guns on their property.
4. Anything else?
You mean for universal firearm owner and firearm registration? No!
1. Opens the door for European-style carry licenses issued by the federal government, among other things.
2. Doesn’t matter if you are not allowed to own one down the road.
3. Requiring others to be responsible for your safety is unconstitutional based on existing case law. The government has no duty to protect you and neither has an individual that you are visiting, open to the public or not. Don’t like private gun-free zones, don’t visit them!
4. Yeah, stop deconstructing the Constitution to make the world a better place!
Manchin-Toomey didn’t do that.
It simply required background checks for private sales to strangers (defined as guns sold through advertising to the public online or through a publication – not on the gun club bulletin board).
It exempted family, freinds, and coworkers from the NICS checks. It also strictly prohibited the creation of a Federal gun registry or database
There is no need for a Federal concealed carry license. The States already issue them. We do need all States to recognize all other State’s licenses and set the rules so that the (maximum) requirements (no guns in courthouses, mental institutions, etc.) are the same in all States.
I disagree that private businesses cannot be held liable for the safety of the public entering their place of business. They already need liability insurance for accidents and injuries to customers in their place of business. Making a business a “gun free” zone is a risk the business is assuming (responsibility for their customer’s safety) like any other risk they might assume.
Further, as Scalia stated in Heller, the 2nd Amendment is not absolute (none of the amendments comprsing Bill of Rights are). We need to get the most for our side. Right now that would be “strict scrutiny” and to minimize the BS we have to litigate.
An ATF Form 4473 is a de facto registration. How do you think guns get traced to their owners?
National carry reciprocity with preemption uses the Commerce Clause, creating a new activity of Interstate Commerce: Me going to another state with my personally owned firearm. This will inevitable result in a federal carry permit system based on the lowest common denominator for freedom, i.e., CA, NY, NJ and MA tell all other states what the requirements are.
Liability insurances for accidents and incidents are for CIVIL liability (typically) based on negligence, which has always existed. Since there is no legal duty to protect, civil liability cases for criminal acts perpetrated by others don’t work out so well. There is no constitutional requirement for others to protect you, even if you are voluntarily on their property. You have the option not to enter such property. The property owner has the option to throw you out using a gun-free zone sign. You do NOT have the right to be on someone else’s property armed against the wishes of the property owner. To do so does violate their rights!
I agree that I don’t have a right to be on someone else’s private property without their permission.
What are you going to do when all businesses bar the carrying of firearms company property? All banks, all food stores, and all other retail locations.
Most States have public accomidation laws that prohibit discrimination for a variety of “protected” classes. Why should exercising the natural rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights be excluded from protection?
“What are you going to do when all businesses bar the carrying of firearms company property? All banks, all food stores, and all other retail locations.”
I am going to open a gun-friendly business targeting tens of millions of customers.
“Most States have public accomidation laws that prohibit discrimination for a variety of “protected” classes. Why should exercising the natural rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights be excluded from protection?”
Do you know what these “protected” classes are? I am generally against the idea of “protected” classes, as it just means some people are more equal than others.
Do you know who the Bill of Rights restricts? It restricts the government! You simply can not force the exercise of your right by infringing on someone else’s right.
“I am going to open a gun-friendly business targeting tens of millions of customers”
Hope you plan on starting a business liability insurance company also because you’ll promptly go bankrupt because you can’t get liability insurance and the Libtards are suing because of all of those slip and fall accidents they are having in your place of business.
See how that works? Still want to be a Libertarian? No rights for you!
Looks like there is some money to make in the liability insurance business.
There is no difference between the left and the right when it comes to using the government as an “instrument of good” and to violate the rights of others for their own gain. Both sides want a tyrannical government to force their views on the other side.
Charlie Foxtrot:
I’d love to see more pro-BOR businesses but barriers to entry and captured market share make brand new startups difficult.
How about a substitute for Google, Twitter, and Facebook? All rolled into one platform would be nice.
How about an Internet host to replace Cloudfare?
How about a credit card issues and a bank? Perhaps a hostile or non-hostile (talk them into it because they need retail customers) takeover of Wells Fargo.
August 11, 2019 at 17:21
Most Industrialized Nations require extensive background checks for all gun purchases which include interviews with a psychiatrist, the police, and the purchasers friends and or neighbors. Without universal background checks any lunatic or criminal can get a weapon with no question asked. Because of all this Amnesty International has now warned all foreign nations the U,S. has now become one of the most dangerous industrialize countries on earth to vacation in and warns people to be aware of what can happen to them in this totally lawless country where the lunatics rule and ordinary citizens get gunned down weekly in mass murder rampages. When it can happen in Texas which is one of the most gun crazy states in the U,S, it simply proved that even with lax gun laws that allowed both open and concealed carry a lunatic can kill with impunity.
The Chicago study proved that most guns used in crime were at least 11 years old and had been sold second hand many times without any paperwork. This is irrefutable proof that Universal Background checks should have been passed decades ago.
Most nations require safe storage laws for obvious reasons Only the uneducated and the ignorant out house crowd in the U.S. refuses to acknowledge that guns are easy to steal if left lying around and 1,300 kids get killed each year with them not to mention the mass killings that take place at our schools with guns that the kids brought from home that were just laying there ready to be picked up and used for mass murder at the school.
Most nations have red flag laws which quickly disarm people acting strangely. The U.S. has yet to enact a Federal Red Flag Law which has proved a disaster for the safety of U.S. Citizens and has let the insane parade around on the internet or in front of the general population telling them they intended to commit mass murder.
Most other Nations spend much more money on monitoring the most dangerous segment of the population and that is Right Wing Racist and Religious Maniacs. They break up Right Wing Neo Nazi Groups and often arrest their demented , xenophobic and racist leaders. David Duke and nut cases like him would have been put in prison decades ago in many civilized nations.
Most Nations have very severe restrictions and or out right bans on high capacity assault rifles. The Far Right refuses to acknowledge that when the Second Amendment was written the Founding Fathers could never have envisioned or condoned the ownership of weapons of mass destruction such as assault rifles. The Far Right in their lunacy will argue they also have the right according to 2A to own atomic bombs and flame throwers and poison gas to someday overthrow the government and institute a Right Wing Dictatorship and a Christian Caliphate.
Most Civilized Nations have affordable mental health care. In the U.S. the Corrupt Republican Congressmen have always blocked spending any money on health care and thereby making it not affordable and not available to people who need it. The result are maniacs running around buying up weapons of mass destruction and slaughtering large groups of innocent people now on a weekly basis and sometimes several times a week much to the shock and horror not only of U.S. citizens but the entire civilized world which knows only too well that the U.S. has now descended into Far Right Hitlerite Racism and pure insanity.
Only a comprehensive approach can ever get the mass murder in the U.S. under control and to do that the Dems need to take possession of both houses of Congress. With a democratic president almost a certainty in 2020 it only remains to be seen if the Dems can capture control of the Senate and bring sanity back to America where children are not gunned down on a weekly basis while studying at school or even praying at church. Its actually become that insane a country to live in and its got to stop and stop soon before the U.S. descends into the chaos of a 3rd world country where there is no law and order because we are only a half step away from that right now.
I might add the Far Right has little choice if Trump passes gun laws as the Democrats will only do what they said they would do which is far more strict than what Trump is proposing. Trump knows the Far Right have to vote for him so he cares little about the NRA or even his hard core base anymore as he has them all by the balls and there is nothing they can do about it because they know that they are caught between a rock and a hard place with no way out but to vote for him in 2020 or suffer the wrath of the Democrats eager for the kill and just waiting for 2020 to come.
Oh look, the commie troll is back posting entire articles without citing them. Pretty sure that’s straight up illegal copyright infringement.
“Amnesty International has now warned all foreign nations the U,S. has now become one of the most dangerous industrialize countries on earth to vacation in”
Does that mean Mexico is safer than the US and all asylum applications from people living in or crossing the border from Mexico are therefore null and void according to Amnesty International? I am just curious.
quote——————-Does that mean Mexico is safer than the US and all asylum applications from people living in or crossing the border from Mexico are therefore null and void according to Amnesty International? I am just curious.————–
Mexico although they have stolen some U.S. manufacturing jobs is still not considered a major industrialized country and is still considered a 3rd world country.
And I might add Amnesty International considers Mexico a very dangerous place to visit as well.
Got it. You think Mexico isn’t industrialized. Racist! Mexico is considered a newly-industrialized country (NIC). Amnesty International’s statement is pure pandering, nothing more.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/newly-industrialized-country
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/newly-industrialized-country.asp
““Amnesty International has now warned all foreign nations the U,S. has now become one of the most dangerous industrialize countries on earth to vacation in””
Good. Does that mean people from “all foreign nations” will stay the hell out of the US? Win-win.
I authoritatively quote Reddit as an authority:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2mf7ng/the_amount_of_energy_necessary_to_refute_bullshit/
Most of the recent mass shooters bought their guns through an FFL with a NICS check. UBCs will do nothing to prevent mass shootings.
For armed citizens to do something about a mass shooting, they have to be there. El Paso is a Democrat city with a population that is more than 79% Hispanic. It isnt the same as the rest of Texas just like Philadelphia and Pittsburgh are not like the rest of Pennsylvania.
Nothing other than enforcing the existing laws to their fullest extent will do anything about gang violence in places like Chicago. It’s not firearms regulations that are needed, it is:
1. Getting rid of the gang members that are politicians, judges, and prosecutors in places like Chicago.
2. No plea bargaining crimes like armed robbery with a stolen firearm by a felon down to robbery with a toy gun.
3. Charge gang bangers found in posession of a stolen firearm or posession of a firearm as a convicted felon under the Federal GCA and don’t plea bargian or allow parole.
4. Develop programs to get citizens to trust the police again and to convince them to stop their “don’t snitch to the man” mentality.
5. Ensure law abiding low income citizens in the subject areas have the ability to obtain concealed carry permits, guns, and training.
6. Most American cities that have very high gang violence and daily shootings have been run by Democrats for decades. Cities that have been successful in reducing violent crime have done so with Republican, law and order, leadership. That just might be the most sucessful action that citizens of these high crime areas can take; vote for law and order.
quote——————6. Most American cities that have very high gang violence and daily shootings have been run by Democrats for decades. Cities that have been successful in reducing violent crime have done so with Republican, law and order, leadership. That just might be the most sucessful action that citizens of these high crime areas can take; vote for law and order.—————-quote
Pure lies and bullshit. Crime in our big cities stems from inferior grade educational systems and lack of high paying jobs. We now have over 4 generations of people who have grown up in poverty with little education and have never had a decent paying job. In all white affluent areas, education is far better and job opportunities far more numerous. Many intercity schools not only do not even have any computers let alone enough of them and some schools are no longer even heated in winter causing many students to just stay home rather than freeze in an unheated school. Its actually that bad and that outrageous. Some 3rd world countries have better inter city schools than the U.S. now has. Our property tax system of financing education guarantees that poor sections of a state or city will receive inadequate funds for education. Canada did away with this system for this very reason and it was a huge success in funding all schools at the same level. A recent Harvard study has shown that if you are part of the lower working class you have a far better chance to move up the economic ladder in Canada that has a superior run and funded educational system for lower class people and assimilates immigrants totally in less than 2 years.
Lack of vetting for second hand gun purchases along with lack of gun laws that allow states with lax laws to funnel guns into big cities with tough laws fuels homicides and gang wars.
quote—————Nothing other than enforcing the existing laws to their fullest extent will do anything about gang violence in places like Chicago. It’s not firearms regulations that are needed, it is:————–quote
Studies show the U,S. incarcerates more people than any other nation and China that has 4 1/2 times the people has less people in jail and way less crime and homicides especially with firearms. So putting masses of people in jail does not reduce violent crime but gun control certainly reduces homicides especially mass murders by nut cases.
Yeah, well China organ-harvests people who cause too much trouble so there’s that.
They’re also running all social media through an acceptability filter so if you aren’t toeing the Communist Party line, you get no privileges and no rights.
Actually, they don’t have personal rights and freedoms at all.
Is that part of your plan for the USA? Because it’s been tried before and has never, ever worked out well.
Just one of many:
https://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/January-2012/Gangs-and-Politicians-An-Unholy-Alliance/
Vlad said: “Crime in our big cities stems from inferior grade educational systems and lack of high paying jobs.”
And this is a direct result of Democrat control and mismanagement of government and a general tendency of certain minorities toward committing violent crime.
In Appalachia, dirt-poor whites have inferior government services, including schools, in every way but there isn’t any epidemic of shootings by gang bangers. Could the violence problem in inner cities be the result of Democrat leadership?
There are over 2.7 million residents of Chicago and 100,000 violent criminals. Incarcerate the 100,000 and throw away the key. Do the same in all other cities.
It is the basic responsibility of government to protect society from violent criminals. Democrats do everything in their power to protect violent criminals from law-abiding society.
Cops do not shoot criminals for fun. Research conducted at Harvard University, by an African American researcher, found that police were more likely to shoot a white suspect than a minority suspect under similar circumstances.
I don’t have stats for Illinois but 94% of the guns used in the commission of a crime in California were originally purchased in California. Californiaia has all of the gun control laws that gun controllers dream of, including universal background checks. Obviously, it didn’t help.
quote——————1. Getting rid of the gang members that are politicians, judges, and prosecutors in places like Chicago.—————–quote
The statement has no basis in facts.
quote———————-4. Develop programs to get citizens to trust the police again and to convince them to stop their “don’t snitch to the man” mentality.————quote
You can hardly expect people in disadvantaged areas to trust the cops when they brutalize and or mass murder their fellow citizens for a minor infraction of a burned out light bulb. We have the most poorly trained police force in the industrialized world. Example: Germany requires 3 years of intensive training for all police and in 2016 they had exactly 12 killings by police compared to the U.S. that had 1,500 people gunned down by cops , most of them died unnecessarily. We also fail to properly vet out sadists and Sociopaths that seem to be drawn to this profession as flies are drawn to shit. And lastly we have a totally corrupt court system that lets cops get away with blatant murder again and again.
Quote——————5. Ensure law abiding low income citizens in the subject areas have the ability to obtain concealed carry permits, guns, and training.————quote
Big inter cities do not have the money for such programs and the Republicans would never fund it on the Federal level and of course brand it as Socialism. And lets face facts when intercity people are on welfare just where in the hell would they come up with enough money to pay for a $650 dollar Glock and the expensive ammo to shoot out of it or afford the private training that they would need to use a gun and carry one. Again the Republicans on the Federal level would never fund it because the poor people do not vote for Republicans.
How about just fighting the impulse to get the Federal government involved with everything it wasn’t Constitutionally mandated to do? The world would be much better if you stopped worrying about every one else instead of taking care of yourself.
Yellow Devel:
I would liked to just take care of myself but the mob wants to stop me from having that option because of crimes I had no part in.
Therefore, I need to utilize all available resources to protect my rights.
If all lawmakers would just respect the Bill of Rights and leave gun owners the heck alone, there wouldn’t be a need to fight back.
I’m OK with The Orange Crush doing something useful for all the wrong reasons. Indeed, the design of the US federal mechanisms is *explicitly* to “pit ambition against ambtion” to moderate govt run amok.
His impulse will be to steal the issue, and do stuff the anti-people hate, just because they won’t buy in, leaving him all the spotlight, while he rubs their noses in it.
Our move is to feed the administration *actual* “common sense” stuff that’ll help that the anti-people will hate, which conveniently, is all the same stuff because they don’t want a solution, they want the issue.
He doesn’t have to agree with us; he just needs to do the right thing.
Well, someone NEEDS to get Prez Trump in line! If TTAG values it’s PRO2@ readership and the Trump Train 🚆! I’d say someone should get on the stick! “Nationwide Red Flag Laws!” Ilis straight out of a Orwellian nightmare! Anybody who firearms or other weapons will become targets and given separate “Goverment granted Privileges!” You havecto be extremely stupid NOT to see this DANGER! All YOUR constitutional rights would be nullified !!! Based on the words of the Governmental Star Chamber!!!
OK, if you aren’t going to get out and vote for Trump, at least get out and vote anti-Democrat on the other races– House, Senate (if you’ve got one running this time), Governor, state legislative seats, county seats, school board.
I figure the best strategy is to crush the Democratic party on all levels. This is not an endorsement for Republicans. But we can’t crush them both at once, and the Dems are the greater existential threat. Crush them at the polls and maybe the Republicans will get the message that elections matter. If they don’t, then crush the Republicans the next time around.
If EVERY Republican and EVERY gun owner of whatever political stripe gets out and votes anti-Dem, then maybe we can stop this nonsense. Maybe.
Trump had a long held anti gun position decades before he ran and was elected Pres. Don’t let NYC handgun permiy fool you. The avg Joe can’t get one but but a rich guy that donated bucks for a Police Athletic League facility got one. Double standard does not bother him. As he often tosses out comments with out much thought, he also does it with 2A related issues. LV SHOOTING: Dropped a Line on bump stocks; POOF, gone. VB Shooter used a silencer: he said bad things about silences, I dont know whats if anything is cooking on that. Now we have a couple close thime line shootings and he’s talking Red flag Laws and “Enhanced” background checks: this can only be Universal background checks and the addition of ammo back ground.
He does need to get reelected, so he may half step, for while. The kicker is what if he is reelected AND THEN supports and pushes a full anti-gun agenda: his legacy!
I wasn’t warm and fuzzy last time and I very concerned this time. We need another candidate with a long and well documented pro 2A and Constution history to run against Trump.
Why should Trump sponsor more gun control? If in doubt read this thought provoking book on the Far Right White Supremacist groups now in the U.S. You can catch her live interview on the Fareed Zakaria show called “Global public Square”
https://www.amazon.com/Bring-War-Home-Movement-Paramilitary/dp/0674286073
Kathleen Belew looks into the shocking and warped mentality of the far right white racist supremacist groups in the U.S. today and their twisted and dangerous ideology. It is simply a look at a modern version of WWII Germany and its Nazi ideology only now they are here among us in the U.S.
I pray the Libertarians get their act together and nominate someone that liberty and freedom loving Americans can vote for. Democrats and most Republicans are just two sides of the same counterfeit coin; heads they win, tails you lose!
How about libertarians start with winning some local or state elections before they start spoiling the federal ballot? If the libertarian party ever has more than 10% of state offices, I’ll consider them a serious party. Until then, they are a Soros third echelon designed to split the conservative vote.
“Prominent voices are warning Trump that if he gives in to calls for even more restrictions on the right to keep and bear arms, he’ll suffer the same fate as George Bush I after violating his “read my lips” pledge.”
No he won’t. He could pass a universal background check bill tomorrow and he would have the same supporters claiming that he’s playing “3D chess” or some other nonsense. Our political system has twisted itself up so much that issues don’t matter, particularly issues that most people don’t care about.
And don’t think for a minute that most people care about gun control. If they did, Cuomo in NY would have been bounced out of office after passing the “SAFE” act. Instead rural conservative areas turned out way below 50%- NY’s 2014 election had almost the worst turnout in the country. If 3/4ths of the people who owned guns voted it would have been a blowout against him.
And once again we are off to the races… He said “blahhh blahhh blah” BUT he said “blahh blah blahblahblah” and then he said……. Bullshit, has he done ANYTHING? No, Will he be doing anything tomorrow? No… Will he actually sit down and work with the fucking Dummycrats? No, but he hopes they think he will. Did he also toy with the idea of tying his background checks and red flag solutions to immigration legislation? Yes he did and that will really make the Libtards crazy… Is he playing his same old bullshit “Bait the Libs” game? sounds like it to me… 98% of the crap I’ve heard this week has been a non-starter for one party or the other, so before you run off to “go fishing” on election day or throw your vote away on some third party shit that cannot win and give the White House to some Socio-Commie Fuck that WILL take your shit away (Harris even threatened to use Bin-Obamas method of pen and phone if Congress would not act) go ahead and when they come for the guns and the shooting starts this country will be officially over…. And then you WILL STFU because your 1st amendment rights will no longer exist…..
By looking at posts it seems the divide and conquer tactics are working quite well.
its amazing trump has gotten as far as he has without the counseling of all of these geniuses
I’ve noticed Trump will “go off the conservative reservation” in his comments about working with the demoncraps only to be setting the trap for their refusal to act or causing them to show their true colors by overreaching in hopes of dragging him further left. Then he will say…I can’t work with these people. It has the effect of showing that he is reasonable in his willingness to work with the demonturds and as mentioned it shows them to be the hard liner communist they are.
I don’t know how many times I have become outraged at something he says only to see this technique unfold and nothing happens. I would suggest not getting all fired up over this at this point in time. However, there may come a time where this is not that technique and he proves himself to be an idiot on guns and we have to decide what it is we need to do about that.
All I know is we are fast reaching a point of no return where we have to decide whether we fight or live like slaves up until they decide to put us in the ovens.
Keep your powder dry. Don’t get to worked up until we see the white of their eyes…as it were.
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