The Senate Judiciary Committee met today to mark-up the various civilian disarmament bills before the Senate, including Senator Feinstein’s “Assault Weapons Ban.” Senator John Coryn proposed an amendment that would have allowed veterans to continue to purchase “assault weapons” just like retired cops. [Click here to view Coryn’s proposal.] “Members and veterans of the Armed Forces are the most highly-trained and qualified individuals to own these weapons for self-defense purposes,” the Texas Republican told the Committee. “We should think long and hard before disarming these heroes, preventing them from protecting their families and communities.” Senator Feinstein opposed the amendment (which didn’t pass) on the basis that veterans have PTSD and can’t be trusted with guns. Here are her exact words:
The problem with expanding this is that, you know, with the advent of PTSD, which I think is a new phenomenon as a product of the Iraq War, it’s not clear how the seller or transfer of a firearm covered by this bill would verify that an individual was a member or veteran and there was no impairment of that individual with respect to having a weapon like this.
[…]
I think we have to – if you’re going to do this, find a way that veterans who are incapacitated for one reason or another mentally, don’t have access to this kind of weapon.
Here’s how I interpret that statement. First, she believes that PTSD is a new phenomenon that has only begun since the Iraq wars instead of the same condition we’ve seen since war began and therefore she doesn’t understand PTSD. Second, because she doesn’t understand PTSD she believes that everyone who has been diagnosed with it is insane and incapable of rational thought. And third, that the prevalence of PTSD in the military is so high in her mind and so dangerous that she would require screening for it BEFORE requiring mental health screenings for LEOs or civilians.
Therefore, it appears that she has this idea in her mind, a stereotype if you will, that veterans and people in the military are psychos that need mental health screenings.
These are the same veterans we hand machine guns to on a regular basis and send into battle. Feinstein considers them too crazy to own an AR-style rifle back home in the United States. Imagine that.
[The original title for this article implied that Feinstein believed ALL veterans to have PTSD. That was based on initial reports of her testimony and has proven to be inaccurate. We have amended the text to reflect her actual statements.]
Where is a random, deadly bolt of lightening when you need one???
I watched it live and I was hoping for one the whole time she was speaking.
I was hoping for a random “Oops, I didn’t know it was loaded”
why aren’t there political assassinations anymore?
Because we’re better than she is.
we are gonna ‘high road’ ourselves outta existence and into noble law abiding slavery
Indeed. We ARE going to high road ourselves out of existence. Wish there were patriots in the Secret Service as well–but their existence being extra-constitutional as all Federal police agencies are–their oaths are basically meaningless.
Please if anyone can find in the 7 articles of the US Constitution, where the Federal government has police powers, I’ll listen. This is a 10th Amendment thing otherwise.
Who knows? Maube one day the electorate will wake up! I suspect rather we shall fall into complete despotism and by their own (the electorates) desire for it. We’re nearly there now!
SamAdams1776 III
Molon Labe
Not every veteran has PTSD, but we will all get a severe case of it if this spawn of Satan ever gets anywhere with a bill like this. There are only a couple people on this earth that I just cannot stand, and she made the list. From Ted the movie, “From one man to another, I hope you get Lou Gehrig’s disease.”
How dare she ever throw vets under the bus when we are the ones willing to give our own lives to protect the freedoms of people like her.
You haven’t figured out that our military are just blocks of wood to be thrown onto the sacrificial fire whenever doing so will give politicians more power.
That is their only current function. They actually do –nothing– by way of “protecting our freedom”.
I clearly remeber Senator Frankenfeinstein holding a semiauto version of an AK-47, magazine in, bolt locked, finger on the trigger, waving around a packed room at a press conference.
And this Oath-breaking BITCH has the audacity to lecture ME, a retired military small arms expert, about firearms safety?
Maybe she suffers from PTSD from to many looks in the mirror.
What I do not understand is why Military Veterans that chose not to retire from the Military have to take the required gun safety class here in California where if I had stayed in for 20 years I would not have to. I was an expert marksman that almost achieved the Hawk eye distinction (something that had not been done for 4 years at our range) It clearly states that on my DD214. But have to admit the diversion tactics are working…I can’t be bothered to jump through the hoops so I do not own a gun. I can however purchase a Shotgun and load it with 00 buck without the safety exam…so….I guess that is what they actually want me to do? Buy a gun that has a huge spread pattern at distance and sends anywhere from 1 -100 pellets at you depending on the shot size. How is that safer than a hand gun? I do understand that handguns can be concealed but that is not the purpose of the required gun safety course. So the moral to my story and the best advice I can give is to fight for legislation requiring all firearms to require a safety course. If it does anything, it will at least slow people down or discourage them altogether It worked for me….for now..
Because the worst thing that could happen to this country is for someone make a martyr out of her or some other “current white house resident”… because thier second in commands would take charge and would then have enough power to enslave us
We are already enslaved. The fruits of you labor already put roofs over moochers heads, food in their bellies, and pay their electric bills and cell phone bills.
You ARE slaves!
Who is John Galt?
There IS a way to deprive them of their income. It’s legal. Shut down your businesses. Go on strike.
Starve them. Let’s turn fiction into reality. Yes, it will hurt. But we are already heading for a world of hurt with this debt. Let us starve them.
Who is John Galt?
SamAdams1776 III
Molon Labe
If any Veteran ever voted for her…they had some mental issue. But this statement should end any chance she should ever have of getting a Veterans or their Family to vote for her! I wish the MSM would put this info out to everyone, but that will never happen! That woman is a total NUT CASE! That is just a slap in the fact to the Veterans that protect her right to run her mouth! Where is that Bolt of Lightening when you really need it!!!!!
Is it bad that I would love to punch Diane Feinstein in the throat?
No. But it has to be hard enough to break her windpipe
🙂
SA1776
What an ignorant B!! I am a cold war veteran and I have no form of PTSD at ALL!!!
It’s in the top of the magazine, in the magazine well…
… of the pistol still in it’s holster.
Why don’t we just sue her and all the others for trespassing on our constitutional rights? Class action suit, use the system against them!
I like that idea… not sure how the legalese might write up but, it’s a solid idea none the less.
Just like a murdering teabagger, wishing for death of elected officials
That moment when a liberal douchebag… realizes that calling someone else a teabagger… means they are the ones getting teabagged.
She is a communist hateful bitch and she needs to either get impeached for treason or get zapped.
Either way, I am NOT a tea partier either. Neither am I a Republican, Democrat, Liberal, Communist, Socialist, Zionist, or some other inane loser party. The “party” I subscribe to, is what this country actually is…
… a Comprimatic.
This country is not a republic, nor or a democracy. Neither is it a Democratic Republic or a Republican Democracy. It is an exact compromise between them all. Not one or the other, but a a compromise built to benefit the largest majority possible.
I…
Am a Comprimatic…
and DAMN PROUD OF IT!!!
Her cousin Hugo had a heart attack. Hopefully it’s congenital.
Feinstein’s bodyguards shouldn’t be allowed to carry weapons because they all have PTSD from having to deal with her.
They have to have something messed in the head to be a bodyguard for that
B!yatch in the first place.
Does this lady really have bodyguards? I know some of the high ranking officials are protected by the Secret Service but not all of them are. I always wondered this because we always assume they do.
Emperor Palpatine had Lord Vader, and since she kind of looks like the Sith lord I would imagine she has some evil dude looking out for her…
Nah – she looks more like Jabba the Hutt.
Be real Mikey, even a Hutt has standards and wouldnt hit the nasty with that!
I offer my sincere apologies to Mr Hutt for even thinking of comparing him to a festering slimeball like Feinstein when he’s merely a greasy criminal mollusc.:-)
They’re probably all veterans. How does she explain that one???
Saw a list of future congressional aides assigned by the military services. Seems a Marine is going to be on her staff. I pity that poor Marine.
You mean that we will have people already in place that can take her out when the time comes? Convenient. 😉
I hate what she stands for, so much. As a combat veteran, I will not be lumped in with convicted felons, murders, and rapists, nor should I be. Combat veterans, especially those with combat related PTSD, put our butts on the line for our freedoms. We won’t be thrown under the bus!
If they don’t want us regular folk armed, they sure as hell don’t want trained and experienced combat veterans armed. That might mean that elected officials would have to obey the law.
They don’t want anyone who is trained or a sharp shooter to own a gun because they fear the revolution. We have them absolutely shaking in fear because they know in the end the people of this country will not go the route they want to go. They know we will revolt. Why do you think so many Navy SEALS are dying lately?? Get rid of the threat!!
Dead Men Tell No Tales !
They are afraid because we are trained but they are also very afraid because we have sworn (and we actually meant it) to uphold the constitution and we have shown our willingness to put our lives on the line for this country! And what the hell is this “advent of PTSD”? It’s been around as long as their have been conflicts! I guess because the democratic party is the party of those looking constantly for more government handouts she must think we are inventing new illness to get over. We are trained, we are disciplined, and we understand what is at risk because we’ve seen life in other countries where the freedoms that those who want to be on the government tit is willing to trade away so they don’t have to work just another reason why they don’t want us armed and have repeatedly tried to label veterans and veteran groups as domestic terrorists. Yes we scare the crap out of them!
I agree 100%. We as Americans will stand against the tyrants that are sadly ruling this great nation. God bless all of our troops! You men/women deserve all of the freedoms that you all have fought for and then some.
I agree with alot of what you say Pat. Nice name, by the way.
You just nailed it!! Bravo
They are afraid of us as they realize that we as combat veterans have put our lives on the line to defend our countrymen and our constitution. They are afraid that we may see them as domestic enemies of both.
They ARE enemies of freedom. They are scared and that is why the impetus to disarm us all. Newtown was an excuse. And the next one will give more weight to it.
SA1776
As a combat vet, I feel that Feinscheiß needs to shut the hell up! I mean, where does she get off telling me, someone that put their ass on the line for this country, that I don’t deserve to have any weapon? If we’re talking about PTSD, I seem to recall that she was pretty traumatised after the assassinations of Harvey Milk and Mayor Moscone. So, using her logic, she shouldn’t have access to firearms either… When you live in a glass house, you shouldn’t be throwing stones, especially when you’re a lying sack of shit! She’s almost 80 years old; when is she going to die?!?! Die already, you f****** waste of human fecal matter!!!
Feinstein is what you get after too many years under the influence of PMS.
@ Indyjonesoutthere, As a female combat vet, I wish you would grow up, and for that matter…grow “a pair” of your own, though I don’t care whether you grow testicles or ovaries. Instead of hating us and insulting us with your childish comments, you might want to consider that most firearms instructors (including drill sergeants) consider females to be better students of firearms marksmanship than men are. You should also consider that since we will raise the next generation of children….you might want to recognize and encourage our skill & comfort with firearms.
Indyjonesoutthere… You are way off base to make such disparaging comments. Stay on point. You do not help this cause w/ such remarks.
Annie Oakley… “most firearms instructors (including drill sergeants) consider females to be better students of firearms marksmanship than men are” This statement is not supported by facts. You need not bring yourself down to the level of the generalized insults leveled by Indy, or others, by hurling them back.
Citation? Not denying she’d say something like that, just curious what context could possible make such a generalization seem reasonable.
I didn’t see it directly, but I have multiple sources confirming that the amendment was proposed, and her argument against it was the idea that veterans have PTSD and therefore can’t be trusted.
We need to nail down that assertion with 100% certainty, and then use it for all it’s worth. Framing, framing, framing.
Bingo.
I had it on, but was working and not paying attention. I would like to see it again. I think Senator Cornyn from Texas proposed it. He was making a big deal out of creating two classes of citizens. He was also pushing for retired LEO to be removed. I know that my two worthless Senators, Frankin and Klobacher voted nay. I thought it was pretty strategic to try to remove retired LEO’s. Might cost some support from police departments.
I have a headache now from banging my head against the wall from these nut cases in congress.
Yes. Context. I’m not sure what folks heard, ’cause last I checked, we were all going to get to “keep” anything already legally owned. They will be grandfathered in for all. Were they talking about still allowing former military to continue to purchase after the bill becomes law? That would not be any better or worse, but I am just trying to make sense of the subject matter she is blindly generalizing. Thinking this may be a red herring of sorts, or just a misunderstanding of what was actually said.
The grandfathering does not protect your right to own an outlawed firearm. Ex: you own a circa 1950’s Remington scope master bolt action .22 cal rifle, it has a removable 10 round magazine. If you fail to turn it in (any gun pistol, rifle, etc with removal magazine that does not require a tool to remove) it is a felony.
Here is video. http://www.c-spanvideo.org/clip/4373761&newclip
She shouldn’t be allowed to own a brain either…..oh wait, sorry she doesn’t own one.
I still think she looks like an old version of Linda Lovelace giving oral to an elephant!!!
Dear god, man, bleach does not work on the mind’s eye! He careful with such images!
What’s sad is that she went to my Alma Mater… Stanford! I have no idea how she got in; Stanford only takes smart people! Stanford makes the leaders of tomorrow, and prepares future captains of industry… I guess even a great institution of higher learning can make a mistake (albeit a big one in her case…) in admissions from time to time!
Believe me; she looks much worse in person. I’ve had the displeasure.
LMFS – I am not a conspiracy nut. I don’t believe the government is capable or thinks far enough ahead to be as devious as some on here think. On the contrary, what some view as evil conspiracy, I view as a completely incompetent, misguided and worse, well intentioned government that has been hijacked by the very people the founding fathers warned us against.
That said, when I read posts like this, I can see why people think the way they do. It really does appear that she’s trying to disarm vets because of the threat they pose to their “master plan”. She and her ilk really do appear to be afraid of what millions of trained and competent professionals would do if they rose up. After all, who better to counter the advantages of today’s modern military that those who intimately know their weaknesses? It appears she is singling out Iraq and Afghanistan specifically for this very reason. Only an idiot would think PTSD is a result of recent wars. But then again, that’s specifically who she’s gearing that statement to – the low information voter. The poorly educated and ignorant masses that make up her constituents.
But I don’t give her that much credit. When you look at her “assault weapon” identification chart, you can see, she’s just stoopid.
Oh boy, she just doesn’t know when to shut up and give it a rest does she? I have a very bad feeling so bad shtuff is about to go down……
All the other senators are chickenshit of standing up to her and tell her she’s full of shit. I’m Embarrassed that she’s a senator from my state. Why do we keep electing her? I thought she’s be shot already.
Most pro-gunners in CA, like me, believe in the judicial and democratic process. That is, defeating these bullshit laws in court, and voting antis out of office, in order to preserve our rights. Violence is only a last resort, if corruption or something blocks our legal pathways. But desperate times do call for desperate measures, so I’m not surprised that she has bodyguards.
She’s part of the reason why I left my beloved CA for Oregon. I miss CA, and want to go back so bad, but I can’t because I own guns… I don’t want to have to give up my guns to the morons in Sac…
no kidding…but I’m already used to Oregon, I cant get used to not owning a firearm or other means of hunting and self defense…I guess if you could open carry your compound bow aka Hawkeye…pretty sure the first criminal to take a 125 gr Broadhead(and live) would let his cronies know that’s some serious shittake…
Not to mention that the DHS and other agencies consider veterans, especially returning vets, to be one of the biggest threats to national security.
Why do people keep thinking it’s a good idea to piss veterans off? If we all have PTSD, which is a nonsense statement, this makes pissing us off even more ill advised. Plus, we tend to vote and like gun owners we tend to remember these insults.
The funniest thing is that PTSD is NOT associated with violent outburst and homicidal impulses…
Roger that, Dr. Vino. Good thing, too, because as I continue to allow myself to be exposed to the current storm of anti-gun and anti-gun-owner hysteria, and the constant stream of misinformed and sometimes downright stupid statements coming from proponents of Diane Feinstein’s “Turn ’em all in, Mr. and Mrs. America” philosophy, I’m developing PTSD myself.
Is anyone else completely ashamed it is from California?
Daniel,I am ashamed and pissed at the same time.I’ve lived the the Central Valley since 1976 having been stationed at NASLemoore.I’ve been in county law enforcement since 1981.I’m from New England and now I can’t tell the difference from Connecticut(the Constitution state,go figure) and the PRC.Sad and frustrating,I send letters to my elected and get eye wash back telling me that they know what I really need.The ballistic divide grows ever wider.
I’m totally ashamed to live in this state specially since she is supposed to be the Senator from this area, i know for a fact that it’s the dumb ass’s in the bay area that elects her not the mountain area that i live in
I’m ashamed IT is from the same galaxy.
I’m a CA native, and I’m ashamed that I helped to elect this b!tch in ’92. I was young, dumb, and full of c** when I did this, and I’m having serious buyer’s remorse! It’s time to recall this wench!!! Feinscheiß, get a real job!!!
Not too loud!
You’ll trash the narrative!
But if the PTSD vet becomes a cop, then he’s exempt, right?
Because PTSD magically goes away when you put on a different uniform.
In other news, Pfizer has diversified into “uniform” clothing market…
What about a cop getting PTSD? PTSD is caused by traumatic events like getting attacked, shooting people, witnessing violence, etc. I bet the amount of cops with PTSD is really high too so I guess they should be disarmed as well.
Henry Bowman. Thanx for staying on point and making a reasonable & sensible argument.
Can anyone who lives CA please tell me how this loon keeps getting re – elected? Does she do anything positive? Watching her from afar for all these years, all I can think of her is she has major mental health issues, a God complex and loves control. Or are the majority of people in CA acid dropping moon bats like their governor?
I have voted against her every election since I turned 18. Nothing to be done as long as she carries the Bay Area and L.A. We would need to split into West/East Ca. to see any change.
There needs to be a discussion on this issue. Good people in CA, IL, NY are disenfranchised because the majority of voters in these States live in the radical far left cities. That means the rest of the population is at their (lack of) mercy and, for all practical purposes, has no say. There have been some half hearted efforts to remove Chicago and Cook county from IL, but they never went anywhere.
It’s even worse when you are trapped inside one of those cities and your vote is essentially pissed away when you vote against her and her ilk.
Not true. There are plenty of voters outside LA and SFO that vote for her too. The flip side is there are probably an equal number of conservative voters who do not vote at all, or vote for third party candidates and water down the conservative vote. When they vote, they vote for her. When we vote, we vote for 2 or three different candidates. We lose.
Haven’t you ever visited blackboxvoting.org? Our “votes” don’t count because Dibold “counts” the votes. Whoever pays them the most is who gets programmed into the machines. It’s been that way since 1964.
There’s only one real way for the little people’s vote to count – that’s why those goons want us disarmed.
There are so many bleeding heart liberals with their hands out to get whatever free cell phones, food stamps, rental section 8’s, welfare, aid to dependent children, as well as the undocumented workers who do not need a license or social security card to vote, electing these socialists/Marxists who want to CONTROL the patriots. Remember, “Gun control is not about guns, it is about control” -Adolf Hitler- and “When any nation mistrusts its citizens with guns, it is sending a clear message. It no longer trusts its citizens because such a government has evil plans.” -George Washington., and “A free people ought not only be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” -George Washington- Which means in simple English, ” ANY government that wishes to do evil must first disarm its citizens, and those that do not try to stop it will assist the government in doing THAT EVIL!”
During a short time that I lived in CA many years ago, I voted for her.
I didn’t like her. Not one damn bit.
But she wasn’t a Republican. You know, the party of people who snooped in and politicized adults’ bedrooms, doctors’ offices, and personal lives, and insisted that a 50% heterosexual divorce rate, combined with serial monogamy (cheating) was superior to committed adults pairing up for life, simply because the latter didn’t have a state-approved assortment of genitals.
Also the party that studiously appealed to creationists, fundamentalists (of various nationalities), and other individuals distinctly deficient in the Enlightenment principles of science and logical thought.
It was the wrong choice. There was a Republican named Tom Campbell who ran against her. A week too late I learned how superb he was. I have never ceased to regret my vote.
Too bad that I thought that he was tarred with the same brush as the GOP or libertarian types who call a woman a bitch, or a porn figure, or old hag, or feces, or whatever when they disagree with her politics and world view. Or wish for her assassination.
Rather than sticking to the facts, which in her case are egregious enough.
I lived in CA only a short time so was never again faced with the choice. But I do remember how I felt, at the polling place, there in the laundry room of a local motel in SF. Feinstein or what? She was anti-RKBA; I was pro-, but I trusted that we pro-RKBA people were strong and respectful enough to offset any mayhem for which she might serve as lightning rod at the national level.
Now I’m beginning to doubt that. It seems that for many people RKBA is not a right to protect for its own sake, with the highest possible arguments and reasoning inherited from our ancestors who fought the Revolution and framed the Bill of Rights. It’s just an excuse to indulge in a bunch of butt-crack-picking and loud belching. I find that even more shameful than people who hate RKBA on principle.
There are millions of RKBA supporters out there doing their bit to oppose repressive legislation, yet you choose to focus on a tiny minority.
If you only look for noises from the “butt crack picking” types, that is all you will see.
Tama Paine… “Too bad that I thought that he was tarred with the same brush as the GOP or libertarian types who call a woman a bitch, or a porn figure, or old hag, or feces, or whatever when they disagree with her politics and world view.”
Hidden in your opinion was a huge argument for the conservative parties. If you read your own words and open your mind you’ll realize that your generalization is not true. Had you paid attention you would have voted for Tom Campbell the Republican instead of helping elect ‘your party’s’ evil.
This is amazing…not in a good way either! What planet do these people come from? Last time I checked Governments were the mass killers, and the only threat to freedom!
The more she talks, the more she raises my suspicion that she has a cognitive impairment such that would warrant evaluation for a neurodegenerative disorder like Alzheimer’s, Frontotemporal or Lewy Body Dementia or even Pick’s disease….
Pick’s disease would cause a personality change, I thinks she’s always been like this. Therefore I believe it is a combination of the first three.
In early stages, you might only see cognitive impairment and mostly frontal lobe signs.
That said, you can’t have all 3.
Most likely, she has Lewy Body – in the earlier stages there is cognitive impairment a myriad of subtle psych symptoms. The tip off is extrapyramidal symptoms without a tremmor. She looks to have a Parkinsonian mask facies….
Just sayin….
HA, and I thought you were joking. I’m going to be looking all of this up then watching the live feed very hard. Hats off to you sir.
I do believe we can concur that she has an advanced case of Zackwy Disease…….
Is that where the face looks zackwy like……….?
it is indeed
She is 80 some, and needs a nursing home. She is getting senile.
Getting?!
How does anybody have the right to say that EVERY American Veteran that comes home or is HONORABLY DISCHARGED from the Military can not have a weapon because they “have PTSD”? You cant say that every veteran that comes home from Iraq, Afghanistan or wherever else is going to have PTSD. Some might, some might not. Penalizing those that OUR GOVERNMENT sends into battle/war, is not logical. How about recognizing them for fighting to keep your ass in office.
Jesus, why the hell do people keep voting for this woman?
She’s just saying what the extreme left, liberal graduates of Mills College, Stanford and Berkley already think. Military types are all crazy. Keep them away from guns when they are not under our control.
We really need a video or transcript. I won’t post about it until I can quote her verbatim.
I have been around combat veterans since I was born. If Iraqi and Afghan war veterans have PTSD what about the “Greatest Generation?” Not to offend our current crop of veterans but the WWII and Korean War vets faced a far higher intensity of sustained combat against forces who could put out the same or higher levels of combat power. I never felt threatened by any of my uncles even though one of them got mustered out in 1944 because he had such a severe case of shell shock.
I think a lot of Second Amendment supporters are letting her run her mouth because she does damages to the gun control cause.
Not to get into a semantic argument about generational gaps and amounts of sustained combat, I know that’s not what your post was about. However, I heard estimates that about 6% of WWII vets were combat vets, leaving 94% to be involved in support roles (not saying anything disparaging about those individuals). We were only involved in WWII for 4 years, as opposed to the 11+ years of combat in Afghanistan/Iraq and while there is definitely no arguing the body counts between the two (I would attribute many to battlefield care) I do not agree about the combat intensity. We have soldiers (many found in the SOF communities) that are approaching their 15 combat deployment, multiple deployments a year, and they are in combat situations almost daily. You would be hard pressed to find any GI’s from WWII that encountered that type of operational tempo without large periods rest.
I understand what you are saying and I agree in spirit, but I wanted to give my opinion on the differences of this comparison. There’s no doubt that WWII and Korean vets saw some of the most intense action ever witnessed in the history of warfare but the sustained effects of prolonged exposure to high-intensity situations is what makes many of our returning vets at greater danger. Somewhere around .5% of the population has been involved in this decade long war as opposed to the 11.5% of the American population that served in the 4 years of WWII.
While I agree that not every vet has PTSD, there still are many that lose their fight to it everyday. Saying if this generation has PTSD imagine the “greatest generation”, to downplay the effects of sustained combat by disparaging members of this current conflict, is inaccurate.
The ratio I found by doing a quick google search was mostly in favor of 1:4. At anyrate, WWII was total war with an undefined end so I agree with the original post. WWII era combat was different than today. You fought until you won, not until your tour was up. All of you, the homeland too in some cases. There was no going home unless you got a “million dollar” wound. In later conflicts a tour of duty was established. You could count down your days. In addition that was a draft army as opposed to the all volunteer army we have today. You had no choice back then, now if you do 15+ tours, then you chose to because that is the career you chose. So I disagree with the comparison of intensity. A fire fight is a fire fight, to be sure. But we have not had a D-Day or a Khe Sahn in quite a while, and really we can only imagine their effects. Sure there have been bloody defenses of small outposts where we lost a few troops, but when was the last time we took 6000 casualties (not just KIA) in a day? D-Day’s casualty rates had nothing to do with advanced casualty care (TCCC). When was the last time we defended a base against a active siege for more than a few days (Khe Sahn lasted from 21 January 1968 – 9 July 1968)?
But I digress – I am not taking away anything from today’s vets either, PTSD is PTSD. It affects certain people in a different ways. One cop can struggle with it for a lifetime after just one bad life threatening situation. Another can be unaffected after multiple tours in a war zone and wounds.
When the vets returned from WWII, Korea, & Vietnam the things that are now called PTSD and TBI were called shell shock, battle fatigue, post-Vietnam Syndrome, and traumatic war neurosis.
This seems like an incredibly stupid thing to say for a career minded politician such as herself. Granted, she probably feels as though her seat is safe – and given that the major urban centers of California is all she really needs, that is likely the case – but it shows a rather callous disregard for the significant number of men and women in uniform who call California their home. Seriously… the state is home to multiple installations for each branch of the military. I haven’t looked up the numbers, but i wouldn’t be surprised if California housed more military installations than any other state.
You’d be wrong. Most of the bases were closed during the Post Cold War BRAC. What’s left is the San Diego Naval Base, Camp Pendleton, the various components of the Naval Air Test Center Weapons Division, Edwards and Vandenburg AFBs and the Fort Irwin training facility. All the Bay area bases are gone as is March AFB and the military part of Moffet Field. I believe Texas is number 1.
I think Beale AFB survived the Northern CA closures.
Uh, Travis? Beale? Mare Island? Fallon? FFS, there’s still a ton.
Mare Island is closed. Fallon is in Nevada. Fort Ord is now the Campus of UCM. The Golf Course is still available to active duty and retired military, and DoD civilians at traditional rates.
Yeah, brain lock I meant Lemoore.
Then I stand corrected. It has been quite a while since I had the distinct displeasure of being stationed at Irwin, and haven’t looked back. I’ll admit that my perception was probably skewed by the proximity of other large installations, though her remarks remain insulting, ignorant, and disrespectful.
That speaks volumes about the mentality of most Californians. We really should give that entire state back to Mexico and put up an electric fence around its borders. Common sense in the country would go up over night and then we can focus on what to do with NYC.
“That speaks volumes about the mentality of most Californians.” = seriously stupid statement.
Did that hurt your feelings? What’s seriously stupid is electing Dianne Feinstein, Barbara Boxer, and Nancy Pelosi over and over. Go have fun with your small mags and bullet button AR’s. Just don’t cry about when they make those illegal as well.
Listen, little man:
To lump all Californians into stupid, left-wing, Feinstein voting sheeple is just asinine, and is absolutely disrespectful to the more right-wing, republican voting, 2A supporting people that happen to live here. Disrespectful to pro-gun, fellow TTAG “members” from CA as well.
You didn’t hurt my feelings, you just insulted your own (lack of) intelligence.
Go ahead and laugh at and ridicule me for being subject to lame laws I voted against. I hope you choke on that attitude.
Yeah leo, let’s give California back to the Mexicans. And when the U.S. economy tanks? Greece has a smaller economy than California and it threatens stability in Europe with its failure.
And once California becomes Mexico look at how much more border a U.S. Gov. has to patrol and protect from illegals amongst others on a vastly reduced budget.
Yep, a real smart move LEO 338.
Reading comprehension is your friend MotoJB. My original comment did not lump ALL Californians. Notice the word “most” that was used. It does take over 50% to win an election the last time I checked. So I would be correct in my assessment of most Californians. Perhaps you are one of the idiots that voted for them and that is why you felt like it was directed towards you? We actually have supposedly 2A supporters on this page that vote straight democrat and defend their vote for Obama to this day. It’s no big surprise that quite a few of them reside in California. Naturally I don’t feel sorry for these people that continue to cry about the gun laws yet continue to vote for the same people. That’s whom I was referring to and if you take offense to it because you happen to reside in the same state then that’s your problem.
JWM perhaps that was a little extreme but California already openly invites illegals to their state. At this pace it will practically be owned by Mexico anyway. Also California’s economy is already tanking. They have cities filing for bankruptcy hospitals closing thousands of people and businesses leaving weekly.
Good one corky…I read what you wrote.
You said “most” and you’re wrong. ”Most” would certainly be a much higher percentage of people than who actually vote these clowns into office. Sadly, she got 62% of the vote this last time around, which leaves exactly 4,713,887 people that voted against her. This is just out of the people that voted. If that percentage calculation is an actual representation of the entire CA population – that leaves nearly 14.5 MILLION PEOPLE that live here that don’t vote Democrat and can’t stand her. Again, given these numbers, your comment is asinine.
Your assessment is a gross mischaracterization.
I take offense to those who characterize most Californians to be democrat, Feinstein voting people that deserve what we have. We don’t deserve the crap handed down our throats by witches like her and we constantly and consistently vote against it – we’re just unfortunately the somewhat minority (out of those who actually vote in CA).
Try being a bit more supportive of those on your side, who happen to reside in CA, while you’re bashing the idiotic senator we feel the same about.
Don’t forget about 29 Palms… and Miramar, Pt. Hueneme, Lathrop Army Depot, Sierra Army Depot, and I think NAS Crows Landing. The last installation in the Bay Area that was closed due to BRAC was the Oakland Naval Hospital, and all three bases in Sacramento… Mc Clellan AFB, Mather AFB, and Sacramento Army Depot. CA took it deep in the keyster, and Uncle Sam didn’t bother to give us a reach around! Oh yeah, don’t forget about Treasure Island, Alameda, and the Presidio of San Francisco… yeah, we took it hard!!!
CA is probably the reddest of the red states, but you’d never know it from what the media portrays the state as. Remember, we sent Reagan to DC, and look what he did. But then again, we also sent Nixon to DC, as well as Hoover. Of the 58 counties, you have to look at the different precincts to see the true breakdown. I know that Nor Cal is definitely more conservative than So Cal; that’s a given… But, as long as the Bay Area and LALA land are the 800 lb gorillas on the backs of CA, CA won’t change. It also doesn’t help that too many single issue conservatives take their vote and go home if their guy or issue doesn’t win the first round of votes. Get a clue people… you can’t always win, but if you give up when you lose, then you give the state to the assclowns!!!
She doesn’t want veterans owning firearms, especially sporting rifles, because she knows they are trained and willing to use them to spoil her tyranny party.
In a word, yes. I have the unfortunate distinction of being currently stationed in the Socialist Republic of California and unfortunately the cities like San Francisco, LA, San Jose, etc. are who gets her elected. Lots of people in the smaller towns dislike her, Boxer, Pelosi, et.al., but they’re outnumbered by a pretty good margin. Sad, really. Their state legislature is a horrid example of rights trampling politicians as well.
The gun trafficking bill was voted on already and passed.
FOAD, Madam Senator.
R/
A ‘crazy’ veteran.
You are being to kind calling this B!tch a Madam.
Feinstein is a perfect example of why there should be age and term limits in Government.
As a veteran I am furious that this woman thinks veterans have PTSD.
She owes all veterans of the US an apology.
If we all have PTSD than wheres my VA Disability check? Hummmmm Now its turning into the GOV owing us money, from her words, which means sooner or later she will get shut down.
Good Kipling quote. Thanks.
We are boots…boots…boots
Ive done the same, as have EVERYBODY i know that shares how they vote. Shes in there for a reason, from “up high” in the corruption dept.
My county had actually entertained the idea of secession from the rest of ca because we are comprised of MOSTLY “republicans” and libertarian types and the states agenda was not serving everything from Orange County southward for the most part.
Her only concern is disarming those who are a threat from their training, and those citizens who have weapons that enable them to defend themselves more effectively than their training would allow with another weapon.
An AR or AK in the hands of an unskilled user is far more effective than say a Mosin Nagant in those same hands. Thats not what she wants. “mr and ms america turn em all in” is her mantra.
Cant think of anything more disrespectful to our troops that have risked much, some all for our nation. Liberal Pig .. shame on you
If Hitler was female, it would be Diane Feinstein.
she needs to lie down and just die already
I believe “FOAD” is the term you’re looking for. 🙂
She has it backwards : was a fact that many millions of vets from WW1,WW2, and Korea got to keep and bring home battlefield pickup… and never a problem , so my view is all the M1 rifles, and M1 carbines should be given to our vets. with a big public thanks,,,,,,,,, and same too battlefield pickup should come home with the Vet too… She lost any real world views years ago… THANKS follow vets..
Perhaps the existence of PTSD provides the necessary self-serving justification for keeping an experienced,possible opposition segment of our population from having access to firearms.My guess is that armed combat veterans taking a stand against tyrants or progressives (interchangeable) is a source of great concern.
How would this play with the MSM if it was reworded “Blacks are all members of street gangs and therefore are criminals and shouldn’t have weapons”???????
See a more recent post by Robert. This is already the 10 ton pink elephant in the room. Many of the anti-gun already think this, they just will not publically say it….but it is there…it is part of their fear that they do a good job of suppressing because everyone wants to be PC.
Go as far back as you want in gun control history, it has always been a theme that nobody wants to talk about
I found the part of the committee and created this clip.
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/clip/4373761&newclip
Thank you so much for doing so. I wasn’t going to pass this on until I could verify it with an official transcript or (better) see the video.
Here words from the transcript are:
THE PROBLEM WITH EXPANDING THIS IS THAT, YOU KNOW, WITH THE ADVENT OF PTSD, WHICH I THINK IS A NEW PHENOMENON AS A PRODUCT OF THE IRAQ WAR, IT’S NOT CLEAR HOW THE SELLER OR TRANSFER OF A FIREARM COVERED BY THIS BILL WOULD VERIFY THAT AN INDIVIDUAL WAS A MEMBER OR VETERAN AND THERE WAS NO IMPAIRMENT OF THAT INDIVIDUAL WITH RESPECT TO HAVING A WEAPON LIKE THIS.
as well as
I THINK WE HAVE TO — IF YOU’RE GOING TO DO THIS, FIND A WAY THAT VETERANS WHO ARE INCAPACITATED FOR ONE REASON OR ANOTHER MENTALLY, DON’T HAVE ACCESS TO THIS KIND OF WEAPON.
THANK YOU!
Now that we have this text, it seems a bit less sensational than your article makes it out to be. If we can agree that individuals with mental illness that are deemed to be a danger to themselves or others should not pass a NICS check, then it stands to reason that anyone meeting those requirements should be reported to NICS. Whether that illness is PTSD (from military service or not), and whether or not they they are a veteran, seems irrelevant to me.
Well then, the NICS would disqualify those individuals “adjudicated mentally defective”. Why then would she have to worry about Veterans that pose a risk, buying a weapon “like this”? It’s this type of double-speak that is infuriating.
Not all mental illness is debilitating in that way–that is makes a person a danger to themselves or others.
In THIS country we are SUPPOSED to have this thing called DUE PROCESS. A person needs to be properly adjudicated a threat.
Of course, by following due process, there will be people that will be a danger who are not so adjudicated and this means that more Newtowns WILL happen. Better this than to be disarmed and living in a totalitarian state.
Of what use is it to be alive but a slave? DUE PROCESS people!!! Live Free or Die!
SamAdams1776 III
Molon Labe
No disrespect to veterans but I feel the same way about veterans being exempt from gun laws as I do law enforcement being exempt from gun laws. Police and veterans aren’t and exalted higher power. They’re people like all of us.
I am a veteran and I agree with you. I don’t believe in special rights for protected classes of people. The God-given right to keep and bear arms belongs to every human being as a birth right, not because of being a member of the military or the police or the NRA or Feinstein’s protective detail.
But I think the main reason she would oppose an exemption for veterans is the sheer number of veterans out there and the likelihood that the majority of AR-15 purchasers are probably veterans because they are familiar with and trained on the platform.
I completely agree with you. We have a citizen army, citizen police force, and a citizen run government. Yet they want to have an entitled few to be the only ones to express their 2nd amendment rights and refuse those rights and many others apparently (i.e. Senator Rand Paul’s filibuster over the WH stating they may use drones to attack American’s inside the USA, but haven’t yet). It is obvious the WH doesn’t care about your 4th, 5th, and 6th amendments rights. We cannot allow them to further take away the one right that our Founding Fathers intentionally left to us to ensure we had so that we can use to take back those rights!!!
I’m a combat veteran and I don’t agree with any differential treatment at all. All or none…Join or Die.
I signed up to protect and defend the constitution. The constitution applies to all of us, not just vets or LEOs.
Indeed! I signed up for the same reason. Natural rights are for all, not just those of us in the military or LEOs.
SamAdams1776 III
Molon Labe
I think she has PTSD. Past The Sanity Divide. She’s been across that line for years.
Dear veterans this is BS that she can come out publicly and berate you and your service to this country. She is just trying to push her political agenda and try to disarm you. Spread the word. And again thank you for your service!
Actually, what the Department of Homeland Security has done is define “domestic terrorists” as anyone who has both the knowledge of government tyranny and the means to resist government tyranny.
When looking for suspects, determine who has the means and motive to commit a crime. It is classic criminal law.
The fact that all of these “domestic terrorists” have NOT harmed anyone and simply want government to leave them alone doesn’t matter. Their “crime” is desiring liberty.
Does that really surprise anyone?
PTSD is a new phenomenon from the Iraq War?! Is she seriously that stupid? Even in California, how does this woman win re-election?
We know for a fact PTSD, although not labeled that, goes back in history as far as there have been wars. It may have gone by another name, but these folks can’t even figure that out, and well, they lie, and don’t even know what they are trying to legislate.
Mirror mirror, on the wall, who’s the craziest of them all!
Feinstein is an IQ waiting to happen. Has she ever read a book?
This ignorama thinks PTSD suddenly appeared with the Iraq War?
Lady, it was called “shell shock” in WW1, and “combat fatigue” in WW2.
Ronald Reagan said,”It’s not that our liberal friends are stupid; it’s just that they know so many things that aren’t true!”
I’m sorry Ronnie. Some of them are just plain stupid.
Maybe combat veterans should sue her for slander…
So, I believe the clinical definition of PTSD is not restricted to only those who’ve seen combat. It would also include women who were raped or otherwise assaulted, the very ones she’s trying to make even *more* defenseless, the very ones who could’ve leveled the playing field and saved *themselves* from a life of torment. It also can include people who’ve been diagnosed with, say, a life-threatening illness. Still-on-the-job cops who’ve been in terrible situations. I’m sure I could list a bunch that she should include in the “no-no” list.
Which, of course, might very well be her intention from the get-go.
She’s either five pounds of stupid in a two pound sack, or she’s willfully spreading this kind of crap because her side believes and repeats it.
Another open letter to Dianne Feinstein
I was recently dismayed to learn of your perception of our Armed Forces veterans as unstable. This unfair characterization does our veterans a huge disservice. Such prejudice also shows your general lack of practical experience with your every-day constituent. After researching your background, I can understand how you came to have such unrealistic beliefs. But, funny thing, it works both ways…
You were a child of privilege. As you grew to adulthood you have attended some of America’s best learning institutions. Your family’s standing in San Francisco high society faired you well.
I wonder how you achieved your first job, at the San Francisco District Attorney’s Office? How did you get your appointment, on the California Women’s Parole Board? How did you acquire your seat on the San Francisco Board of Supervisors? Were any strings pulled on your behalf?
Logically, it follows that you had unfair advantages over your peers. I wonder if you have a sense of entitlement? You know, most “Rich people” feel they deserve more than your “average Joe”. As a member of the “Rich Elite”, you probably feel this way. The majority of your finances are held in blind trusts. Very cunning, Mrs. Feinstein, very cunning.
I know that you are a conceal-carry permit holder. Yet many, many of your constituents are denied the same right. I bet you haven’t visited a firing range in the last ten years.
My bottom line here is this:
Perceptions are very powerful. I realize you received the biggest popular vote in 2012. However, given the recent changes in the political landscape, I doubt if you will be able to retain that claim.
I also believe you are ill-equipped to address gun violence in the United States. Sure, you have tons of statistics and anecdotal evidence you present. What you don’t have is experience serving in our military. You also have zero personal experience living in the areas most affected by violent crime.
As this debate progresses, I look forward to opposing your continued efforts against our Second Amendment rights.
Regards,
Ed Rogers, MSgt, USAF (Retired)
Well said, and very true.
Was that letter sent to the Senator? I hope so. I am a lifelong Californian and I have also voted against her consistently. I just don’t get it. Well, I do I suppose…. Disarm the people that are mentally and physically equipped to stand up for their rights and uphold the Declaration of Independence, then make it illegal for them to gather in numbers to protest the oppression. Limit their financial means forever keeping them under the yoke of “leadership” and finally when all else fails…. send a UAV strike to eliminate them. This is the plan from our country’s “custodians”. The “Fundamental Transformation of America” will result in the 1% and their descendants in power forever, the rest of us will have neither the tools or voice to stand up. American Citizens are ants under the magnifying glass of the controlling party and SHALL remain that way until we say in one collective voice… “Enough!!” This is how the Revolutionary War began. Will it happen again? Probably not, there are too many “citizens” that don’t see or understand what is happening. Those that do, either don’t know or don’t want to “make waves”.
As I said before, until the day comes that we ALL, as God-fearing (yes I said God, deal with it), patriotic Americans stand up and say “Enough!!” to our money/power hungry leaders. Nothing will change for the better.
If this person is any indication of the government mentality at hand . We will do better to remove them by force ,than fall prey to their insanities any deeper than they have provided thus far . As well I whole heartedly believe that is why they have fixated upon the fabrications as spewed by their industrial news media “Propaganda machine ” in order to cry indignities such as the play of the “ASSAULT WEAPON used in the Sandy hook shooting . That in fact never was in the shooting /While voiding their oath of office as I am sure they will improvise with another coercion toward the people in order to vanquish the constitution all together //Unless certain portions may be misconstrued to place us “We the people “Into a further indebted bondage , than they have already allocated by way of wallowing corruption & corporate sponsored treason .
Having proudly served our country for over 20 years, I find her remarks to be reprehensible. I will be dropping her a letter.
Sooooooo. Unfortunately until I retire next year it is against the law for me to speak with contempt against the President, Vice President, Governors or Senators (oddly enough I can be contemptuous of Representitives), so I can’t write what I’m thinking.
Apparently the good Senator thinks a useful recruiting tool will be “join the military, defend the Constitution, give up your Constitutional rights for the rest of your life, because obviously your service has rendered you nucking futs.”
Out of one corner of their mouths our elected officials bemoan the high rate of unemployment among veterans. Out of the other corner they publicly state we’re all PTSD riddled extremists who are one cup of coffee away from shooting up the office. Gee, does that make the job search easier?
Incidentally, and this is anecdotal, based on the people and units I have served with, more than half of the folks I know with PTSD rarely if ever left the FOB and only did one tour.
LTC,
In regards to your last paragraph, I wonder if some of that is due to some self-selection. Since susceptibility to PTSD varies, and being in the combat arms requires volunteering twice, maybe those who are more resistant to PTSD are also more likely to volunteer twice. Usual “speculating from my comfy arm-chair” CYA routine.
Sir,
Wouldn’t that be more dependent on the type of people you served with and their roles during the deployment. It’s like saying “I work at McDonalds and oddly enough all the people I know that make fries work in the back”.
Everyone I know that has been diagnosed with PTSD was a combat Veteran of multiple deployments and have been in several firefights. I don’t know anyone that didn’t have a combat arms MOS that has PTSD, but that probably has more to do with the fact that I don’t know those other types.
I don’t have any disrespect for folks with PTSD, and by no means want to denigrate them or their service. I’m a Cavalryman, my first tour was as the XO of a tank battalion (during the major combat operations and OIF I), my second was on a MITT team during the surge, and my third was as an STT commander.
I do know some combat arms guys with PTSD, but not many. Maybe we have it and don’t admit it, I don’t know. I commanded a training battalion and had numerous guys with PTSD, the majority were support types.
Some of it may be expectations. The mission of armor is “to close with and destroy the enemy through fire, maneuver, and shock effect.” The mission of the infantry is to “close with the enemy in order to kill or capture him, or to repel his assault through close quarters combat.” Folks who choose those kinds of jobs have a certain expectation.
As far as number of tours, the first time guys don’t know what to expect. (OIF was not my first rodeo, I did Just Cause and Desert Storm…I’m an old bastard.). Guys who make it through that first tour I think are less stressed on the next go around, at least that was the case for me.
Again, all anecdotal, I can only speak about what I observed.
An anecdote: I had a guy on my PSD (my gunner) who was wounded three times. Never seriously, but if anything blew up in Baghdad he’d get hit with part of it. I couldn’t talk him into taking a job in the TOC. My surgeon left the FOB twice. We were doing a raid and I brought the forward aid station with us because we knew it would be ugly. It wasn’t, caught the dude we wanted in bed, not a shot fired. Then we hit an IED on the way out. (It’s why I have sporty hearing aids now.) My driver and gunner got hurt, no one in Doc’s truck behind me got a scratch. Doc is the one with PTSD…what pediatric surgeon ever dreamed that some night he’d see someone get blown up? He was fine with guys we brought to him…but seeing guys get hurt was too much for him.
LTC
it relly has nothing to do with leaving the FOB or not it is simpel a person who is put into a situation where they see things that are disterbing and tramatic to there mental state can end up with PTSD and can go years with out knowing it there are diffrent levels not every one with it is reconizable and some hid it or deny it and it might not happen on your 1st,2nd or 3rd tour into combat and it doesnt even need to be compat a firefighter and emt get diaognost with it. it truly varies person to person and has noting to do with your MOS or weather your tough or weak dont get me wrong you comments did not upset me i am just a retired vet who has info on it
Sir, I don’t let it bother me too much. I am still serving. I will criticise the President, Vice President, Senate Majority Leader and the whole host of liberals and phoney Republicans: They are evil and dangerous. They must be stopped-preferably via elections, but I am open to other options, especially if they cross the point to a hard tyranny.
I am afraid you will all have to decide that that means for yourselves.
But I will give you the means to communicate with each other securely:
www dot gpg4win dot org
learn RSA Asymmetric encryption. publish your public keys and keep your secret keys secret.
Android has a program that can use those same keys called APG.
Go forth and communicate!
Now you can all have the equivalent of the “Committees of Correspondence” that the Founders did, only without the pubs.
PS
You use your secret key (private key) to sign the emails. You encrypt the emails with the recipients public key. Sign the message with your provate key. The recipient will decrypt with his/her private key. And if the recipient has your public key will know that you signed it.
Twitter could be used to mobilize everyone with a single unannounced (except over the encrypted email traffic) tweet!
We aren’t there yet. But this is how it can be done. You know, they supposed to fear us–not the other way around!
So I guess I am a terrorist?
No–I LOVE this Constitutional Republic! I love the US Constitution and its protections. Just wish the elected Representatives and others serving in government did as well!
WITH THE ADVENT OF PTSD, WHICH I THINK IS A NEW PHENOMENON AS A PRODUCT OF THE IRAQ WAR.
Really lady!!!!! are you f***ing stupid???? Does she really think PTSD is a new thing? So, by her claim, people who fought in WWI and WWII and any other war did not suffer from PTSD. She is insane!! This lady does not even take the time to do research or learn about anything relevant to this issue and people think that she is helping to protect them. Wake up America you are sacrificing your liberties for these idiot’s agendas!!!
Hope she show knows that she set her self up for a massive number of liable suites by stereotyping Veterans. The Vietnam Veterans had to deal with decades of stereotypes and these troops coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan should not have to deal with that because of that woman.
really PTSD is not just a vet thing and just because you have it doesent make you crazy but making statements like that makes you a idiot. please save are youth and dont open you mouth for the fear you might influance them. are education system is having a hard enough time as it is and dont need you dirupting it even more.
It’s amazing, and I cannot explain it, but I’m reading this page via an iPad 3, when I got to the Senator’s quote, I literally could smell the bull$h!t. I knew the technology in these iPads is pretty advanced, but this is ridiculous.
Heh.
Does ptsd-mean Pluck The Stupid Democrats. I think it does.
PTSD goes as far back as the Korean War. It was just not a diagnosed mental disease back then. Anyone who passed 8th grade US History knows that.
I know that it’s called a carrying handle and I understand your confusion, but could you not hold the weapon like that please. At least we know how to maintain positive control of a firearm.
This woman gets more batshit crazy with each and ever passing day. She has long surpassed her expiration date and needs to be euthanized.
For Ask
You now know a vet that is diagnosed with PTSD and did not hold a combat arms MOS. As a matter of fact I served in the Air Force and saw significant action. I also only served one deployment, so therefore you cannot categorize all PTSD vets into combat MOS specialties.
As I stated before, I would paint with a broad stroke because my experience is unique to me. That’s what my entire post was about (did you read it?). I was making a statement to the LtC that he probably knows a majority of non combat soldiers, in which case the number of PTSD soldiers (non-combat) that he knows will be significantly higher than the number that I know.
Dear Senator,
Once again you come up with a somewhat slanted half truth to try to make your point. PTSD which is the modern term for gee combat is stressful was first called shell shock in WW1. It then became Combat Stress syndrome during WW2 and Korea. WE really didn’t call it much during the ten years of Viet Nam because no one really gave a damn especially our wonderful politicians. So we now come to PTSD which is the catch all phrase the profession has thrown out to blanket the fact that our senses are not prepared to accept the assault that is warfare. What you fail to mention is everyone who has ever served in a combat zone has it to some degree. It does however have many degrees of severity and making a lump statement like that just shows your stupidity. I am not a Californian but I often ask myself what type of voter would place you in the senate.
Feinstein is doing the same thing Hitler & the Nazi Party did in Germany in the late 30’s . The ONLY REASON She wants to take OUR GUNS is to Prevent “WE THE PEOPLE” from taking back OUR GOVERNMENT & Putting Her & Her Corrupt Politicial Buddys in Jail !.
Where they belong!
SA1776
Hmm…to bad the last few massacres were crazy bat shit civilians huh.. Stupid.
PTSD was once called shell shock, its not new, we have been aware of it since 1914. Liberals make me sick….
I don’t really like it when vets get lumped into a special category over anyone else. We chose to serve. We signed up and we did what he had to do, like so many before us. To imply that the wars fought in this day and age were worse than the wars fought prior, under the premise of disarmament is absurd fallacy of thought at best, and diabolical sinister genius at worst. Either way, it is unacceptable rhetoric from public office, and should be looked at under great scrutiny.
PTSD is real. Any traumatic experience can cause it in some way shape or form. In some it is debilitating, and those who suffer from it badly DO need help. For most vets though, it’s just one of those things. Veterans aren’t crazy. Most vets are humble, good hardworking people, who take pride in this country and care about others. Veterans were the backbone of this country after WWII, because they were given the tools and the love needed to follow their hearts after getting back to society. These days they are coddled, told they can’t do X because of what they saw, they need help, they need entitlements, etc.. It’s a load of BS.
I can’t help but feel that the powers that be know something is coming, and is coming soon. Something dire. Something this country never imagined could happen. I don’t know what it is, but I do know that since 2008 hit, there has been a kind of insipid malaise in the air, that feels a lot like impending doom to me.
I hope I’m wrong.
WE should all step back a moment after chewing on our anger and think critically. It’s starting to look like this woman is trying to prod the bull to the point of making herself into a true martyr for her cause. She just might succeed.
my father peter Hernandez has 100% ptsd 24th infantry . he owns a m1 grand same rifle he shot and fired in Korea , two purple heats and two bronze star with valor .
ssg pablo Hernandez, 3 tours , last tour 100 wia, 17 kia, i own rifles but none of your buisness fienstien of what kind , and yes i have 70 % of none of your buisness . we earned our right in this country we were not appointed .we swore to a oath to protect against enemy’s foreign and domestic.
this is crap she is retarded she needs to see the business end of an ar lol
is she really serious. they want to raise the age for a permit to 21, but you can go to war at 18. then when you get home, you may not own a weapon, because we have destroyed you and do not take care of you when you get home. sad, but for the most part true. Some do get help, some do have very bad ptsd. But she is way out of hand. she must of heard how our military is on the side of the constitution, the bill of rights and the American people!
I have to ask, wasn’t she attacked one time in her life and after that she made some statement that she would never be without her gun, so then she went and got a conceal carry permit. Would that be the same traumatic situation that may have given her PTSD which would be reason to take hers away.
I think there is a misconception about soldiers that performed their duties on the FOBs. I have multiple MOS’s some of which are combat arms. My only deployment saw me stuck on a FOB. I had boobie traps set for me at my work location on the perimeter fence. I was subject to rocket attacks, mortar attacks, and small arms fire. In only one instance was I in a position to protect myself. There is alot to be said for being able to return fire, in both a physiological and mental scence. You feel like you actually have some chance of defending your self. I also had additional task of searching wounded LN’s for IED’s before they were allowed on base. So, just try and look at how the soldiers on the bases had to face the enemy. Most of the soldiers I served with would have preferred being able to get off base, and not feeling like a stationary target.
PTSD Is new from the Iraq war? She owes me new shoes because I just stepped in her bullshit. PTSD has existed as long as War has. It was first recognized during WWI when the booming of French artillery shells echoed throughout underground German fortifications and cause some soldiers to develop anxiety, shakes, and other symptoms of PTSD. Of course, back then it was known as “shell shock.”
She’s a prime example of _why_ we have the Second Amendment.
When you use phrases like “fully automatic machine guns” you show how little you understand about firearms, or how willing to use sensationalist phrasing you are.
looking at difi gives me PTSD. people like her working for this country makes me
wont to move to another country. the way some of elected demos think is BS.
Firstly, Finestien you’re retarded beyond measure. Secondly You will never disarm this veteran and thirdly since I have PTSD go ahead and start that 90% disability check up so I can buy more “Self Defense” rifles.
Its sad that the men and women volunteered to put their lives on the line to protect this country it’s citizens and their freedoms and this is how they are treated. Why go to war in Afghanistan or Iraq when we have an enemy right here trying to take away our freedoms from the inside!
This is a form of discrimination of those who served this country in time of war and who willingly to give up their lives for freedom. Most importantly, they are willing to die for these politicians to discriminate against them. It is no differently from not allowing certain class of US Citizen not to be able to own a firearm.
im surprised no one has gone lee harvey on her ass yet, alot of real crazies out there
tell me this she trust her bodyguards that are or where soldiers at one point , that they shouldn’t have assault rifles here in the states then how are they to protect her then ???
its how it begins…”common sense” regulations so ‘bad people’ dont get guns. then the govt starts deciding who is and is not bad. first limit the type of weapon. then regulate who can get. and wahhhhlahhh the 2nd is no more and its greeted with thunderous applause by the people who have just given themselves over to slavery for ‘safety’. and the so called patriots who would fight politicians who said they wanted to cancel the 2nd outright, now are rendered servants who dont want to be rude and still want to be law abiding. “well vote them out later or reverse the law later because we are better than them and dont need to resort to breaking the law or violence” later never comes need proof, i got 6 million from germany for starters…
Madam Feinstein,
You are a moron.
The term PTSD started after the Vietnam war, not Iraq. Before Vietnam, it was termed Shell Shock and not as widely addressed as it is today. PTSD is very manageable, but when bafoons like Feinstein are definite triggers for it.
Is this woman the most stupid politician alive!!?? PTSD has been documented as far back as the Civil War! How dare she say it started with the Iraq War! This woman is disgusting and appalling and shame on any of you that voted for her!
If owning a gun is a crime, then call me a criminal. I don’t give a sh**. Just because it’s illegal does not mean it is just. I’d like to see this bitch just TRY and take a veteran’s gun away. Knowing most veterans, they’re probably in a safe somewhere or a gun cabinet. But it’s a good thing people need warrants to enter your house. So even if her bullshit law passes, there’s no way they can properly execute it.
Sounds like a great place for a multi-million dollar law suit. Any PTSD suffering JAG Officers out there up for the challenge?
All politicians have lackofbrain disease and should not be allowed to hold office
Face it guys and gals, we are expendable! Send them to do our dirty work, to protect our nation, our Constitution and our way of life. And if they don’t die in combat, we’ll just take their rights away when they get home. Never give up your fire-arms because you empower idiots like her and we already know she is crazy and capable of some pretty stupid and evil stuff! God bless America in spite of the idiots leading HER! Post Script; I am a two time war Veteran and am proud to have fought for HER!
PTSD is an advent of the Iraq war? Just by her saying that she proves how stupid she is. In Vietnam, they called it “shell shock.” I am an Afghanistan veteran and believe me, I have seen my share of combat. You know what I think literally saved my life when I came home? Other veterans. Veterans who this ignorant efftard would classify as having PTSD.
“…a new phenomenon as a product of the Iraq War.” This atrocity doesn’t even know what PTSD is. She claims it renders combat vets incapable of handling so-called “military-style” rifles at home, regardless of the fact that they are more than familiar with said weapons. If she really knew what PTSD was, she would know for a damn fact that it wasn’t brought about by the Iraq war. It has been around since the beginning of time. Its in regards to any stressful event someone endures. It has absolutely nothing to do specifically with military or even combat veterans. People can be diagnosed with PTSD from ANYTHING that, in their eyes(or not), is a traumatic experience. Granted, Im sure there are vets who shouldn’t own firearms, but that’s beside the point and only applies to a very small percentage of the crowd. It really boils down to that this is just another scapegoat the Dems are using in their attempt to degrade our 2nd Amendment. To take away the arms from Americas best defense in the case of a tyrannical gov’t. Our combat vets.
Final note: “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”
How does anyone, even who know little about weapon systems, expect Americans to defend and secure a free state from a tyrannical gov’t, who have legitimate military-style weapons, with shotguns, pistols and bolt action rifles? Just think about it.
Mont
USMC combat vet
PTSD was noted and called Soldier’s Heart during the Civil War. This woman is utterly clueless.
IF WE ARE SO DANGEROUS WHY IS THE WEAPON SHE IS HOLDING ON FIRE ????? SOMEONE TAKE THAT AWAY FROM HER BEFORE SHE SHOOTS SOMEONE AND BLAMES IT ON THE WEAPON
“Shellshock”: How Post-Traumatic Stress Became a Disease
When people have suffered a violent or horrifying experience, the trauma can follow them around for years — and we call that Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). From soldiers to accident victims to rape survivors, tons of people have found themselves haunted by their terrible experiences.
But PTSD didn’t enter our vocabulary until 1980, when it was added to the DSM-III. Before that, there were many terms for the condition, and many people wrote about it, including Dickens and Shakespeare. How did people describe PTSD before 1980, and how did it come to be recognized as a syndrome, separate from grief or regular depression? Here’s the secret history of trauma and recovery.
Top image: World War I soldier receives treatment from the “Bergonic chair for giving general electric treatment for psychological effect, in psycho-neurotic cases.” Via Otis Archive/Flickr.
——————————————————————————–
Early reports
Many ancient religious texts talk about the terrible aftermath of trauma — including the Book of Job, in which Job appears to be suffering from mental disturbance after his horrible experiences. And the Mahabharata describes the combat-related stress of warriors in the Mahabharat War.
The Greek historian Herotodus writes a lot about PTSD, according to a presentation by Mylea Charvat to the Veterans Administration. One soldier, fighting in the battle of Marathon in 490 BC, reportedly went blind after the man standing next to him was killed, even though the blinded soldier “was wounded in no part of his body.” Also, Herotodus records that the Spartan leader Leonidas — yes, the guy from 300 — dismissed his men from combat because he realized they were mentally exhausted from too much fighting.
Also, some experts think the Iliad is describing PTSD when Homer says Ajax went mad under Athena’s spell, slaughtering a herd of sheep that he thought were the enemy, and then killing himself.
Shakespeare writes a pretty dead-on description of PTSD in Henry IV Part 2, as Michael R. Trimble points out in Trauma and its Wake Vol. 1. Lady Percy observes Harry Percy having terrible nightmares in which he murmurs “tale of iron wars,” and talks to his “bounding steed.” And when he’s awake, Harry is like a ghost. She says to him:
Tell me, sweet lord, what is’t that takes from thee
Thy stomach, pleasure, and thy golden sleep?
Why dost thou bend thine eyes upon the earth,
And start so often when thou sit’st alone?
Why hast thou lost the fresh blood in thy cheeks,
And given my treasures and my rights of thee
To thick-eyed musing and cursed melancholy?
There’s also that speech in Macbeth, where he asks, “Canst thou not minister to a mind diseased/Pluck from the memory a rooted sorrow?”
Likewise, Trimble notes, Samuel Pepys describes his trauma after the Great Fire of London, which left him with “dreams of the fire and the falling down of houses.” He had a hard time sleeping due to his “great terrors of fire,” and actually considered suicide.
Charles Dickens writes about being “curiously weak… as if I were recovering from a long illness,” after a traumatizing railway accident in which the front of the train plunged off a bridge under repair and 10 people died, with another 49 injured. Dickens wrote in letters to people: “I begin to feel it more in my head. I sleep well and eat well; but I write half a dozen notes, and turn faint and sick… I am getting right, though still low in pulse and very nervous.” Dickens also writes about being unable to travel by rail, because he keeps getting the feeling that the train carriage is tipping over on one side, which is “inexpressibly distressing.” Dickens was never as prolific after this incident, and he died on the fifth anniversary of the train crash.
But it’s also true that PTSD wasn’t fully recognized until around 100 years ago — and there are a few factors, including: 1) the rise of modern psychology, 2) modern warfare, with all of its huge explosions and ever-more-efficient killing machines, and 3) the rise of things like worker’s compensation and lawsuits, making people more likely to report when they’ve been traumatized after an incident. So what did people call this condition in the past?
——————————————————————————–
Many Names
According to psychologist Edward Tick, PTSD has had more than 80 names over the years. Here are just some of them:
Nostalgia This is the diagnosis given to Swiss soldiers in 1678 by Dr. Johannes Hofer. In 1761, Austrian physician Josef Leopold Auenbrugger wrote about the widely diagnosed condition of nostalgia in his book Inventum Novum, writing that soldiers “become sad, taciturn, listless, solitary, musing, full of sighs and moans. Finally, these cease to pay attention and become indifferent to everything which the maintenance of life requires of them. This disease is called nostalgia.” French physicians in the Napoleonic wars believed soldiers were more likely to suffer nostalgia if they had come from a rural, rather than urban, background. They prescribed such cures as listening to music, regular exercise, and “useful instruction.”
Homesickness Around the same time, German soldiers were calling the same condition heimweh, and the French called it “maladie du pays” — both terms basically mean “homesickness.”
Estar Roto Spanish physicians came up with this term for PTSD, which means “to be broken.”
Soldier’s Heart
Internal medicine doctor Jacob Mendez da Costa studied Civil War veterans in the United States, and discovered that many of them suffered from chest-thumping (tachycardia), anxiety, and shortness of breath. He called this syndrome “Soldier’s Heart” or “Irritable Heart.” But it also came to be called “Da Costa Syndrome.”
Neurasthenia/Hysteria
These classic Victorian descriptions for anybody who suffered from excessive neurosis or nervousness included many symptoms that would now be considered signs of PTSD, judging from James Beard’s definitive text on neurasthenia, published in 1890.
Compensation Sickness or Railway Spine
As railroad travel became much more common in the late 19th century, so did railroad accidents — and psychologists started noticing a lot of cases of trauma among survivors of those accidents. (Just like Charles Dickens.) Psychologist CTJ Rigler coined the term “compensation neurosis” to describe these cases — with the “compensation” part referring to a new law that allowed people to sue for compensation for emotional suffering. Rigler believed people were more likely to report their traumatic symptoms — or possibly exaggerate them — if they were going to get paid. Victims of railway accidents were also referred to as having “Railway Spine,” as if their spinal cords had suffered a concussion that caused them to be more nervous or tramautized afterwards.
Shell Shock
Dating from World War I, “shell shock” is probably the most famous term for PTSD. By December 1914, up to 10 percent of officers were suffering from shell shock, and 40 percent of casualties from the Battle of the Somme were shell-shocked.
Combat Exhaustion
That’s what it started being called during World War II and the Korean War. People also called it “combat fatigue.” The Army studied the problem, and decided that “unit cohesion” was a crucial factor in surviving this syndrome, and replacement soldiers were more prone to it because they were new to their units. And as Charvat notes, there’s an ad in the September 17, 1945 issue of Life Magazine touting Wyeth Pharmaceuticals’ products in treating both colic and “battle reaction and mental trauma.”
Stress Response Syndrome
That’s the term it was given in the DSM-I in 1952. And that’s the condition that Vietnam War soldiers were diagnosed with. In the DSM-II this syndrome was lumped in with some others, in a new category called “situational disorders.”
——————————————————————————–
Clinical Debates
Once it was recognized as a medical condition, the nature of PTSD was still up for a lot of debate, including:
Was it physical or psychological?
The term “shell shock” sort of conjures an idea of someone’s brain getting rattled inside its skull by exploding shells. And indeed, that’s pretty close to what the term meant. Similarly, as we mentioned above, “railway spine” was based on the notion that railway accidents caused damage to the spinal cord, even if the patient appeared physically unharmed.
One of the first experts on “shell shock” was Frederick Walker Mott, who believed that explosions caused physical lesions on the brain, perhaps exacerbated by carbon monoxide or changes in atmospheric pressure. (Although Mott did believe that psychological trauma was part of the problem as well.) He writes in his landmark 1919 study:
Physical shock accompanied by horrifying circumstances, causing profound emotional shock and terror, which is contemplative fear, or fear continually revived by the imagination, has a much more intense and lasting effect on the mind than simple [physical] shock has. Thus a man under my care, who was naturally of a timorous disposition and always felt faint at the sight of blood, gave the following history. He belonged to a Highland regiment. He had only been in France a short time and was one of a company who were sent to repair the barbed wire entanglements in front of their trench when a great shell burst amidst them. He was hurled into the air and fell into a hole, out of which he scrambled to find his comrades lying dead and wounded around. He knew no more, and for a fortnight lay in a hospital in Boulogne. When admitted under my care he displayed a picture of abject terror, muttering continually, “no send back,” “dead all round,” moving his arms as if pointing to the terrible scene he had witnessed.
Image via Alistair Hobbs/Flickr.
But Charles Myers, who wrote about “shell shock” in a 1915 Lancet article, contended later that proximity to an explosion was not a key cause of the condition. Rather, these were cases where “the tolerable or controllable limits of horror, fear, anxiety, etc. are overstepped.” In 1940, at last, Myers published his groundbreaking study of 2,000 cases of shell shock, and was able to identify many cases which did not directly involve explosions.
Another World War I researcher, Millais Culpin, described dissociative states that were linked to extreme terror. When he asked a soldier to close his eyes and describe his first experience of fighting, he “seemed to be living his experience over again with more than hallucinatory vividness, ducking as shells came over or trembling as he took refuge from them.”
Meanwhile, as for “railroad spine,” a surgeon named Herbert Page who worked for the London and North West Railway published a whole book in 1890 called Injuries of the Spine and Spinal Cord Without Apparent Mechanical Lesion, in which he contended these patients were really suffering from “nervous shock,” not physical injury.”
Full sizeWas it short-term or long-term?
Starting after World War II, psychologists started classifying all of these cases of trauma, based on loads of notes that the Armed Forces had been collecting since 1933. There was just one trouble: the military shrinks were working on the assumption that all of these cases were “transitory” or “acute.” Meaning that otherwise normal people would have a short-term problem, after they got back from combat, but that by its nature this wouldn’t last long. Image via Kimadababe/Flickr
Because the psychological studies were based on the military data, which all made this assumption, psychologists also assumed that cases of PTSD would be short-term or temporary in nature.
After the Vietnam War, countless veterans were diagnosed with “stress response syndrome” — but the VA declared that if the problem lasted more than six months after the soldiers returned home, then it obviously was a pre-existing condition and had nothing to do with their wartime service. And thus, it was no longer covered.
It wasn’t until DSM-III in 1980 and ICD-10 in 1992 that the clinical guidelines started to acknowledge that these problems could be chronic. And that this problem could be an “anxiety disorder” rather than a short-term adjustment. This change came in the wake of researchers working with a large number of Vietnam veterans — like World War II, the Vietnam War was a huge boost to PTSD research, and you could find a large number of people suffering from the same symptoms within the same city, so you had tons of ready data.
A big proponent of reclassifying PTSD as an anxiety disorder, rather than an adjustment disorder, was Boston University’s David H. Barlow. He theorized that when people who have psychological and physiological vulnerability get exposed to a stressful event, they develop the belief that these stressful events are unpredictable and uncontrollable — and they will become fearful about the repetition of this stress. This leads to a cycle of “chronic overarousal” and “anxious apprehension.” These, in turn, lead to people being excessively vigilant, with shortened attention spans, and the way people process information gets distorted.
In short, they have major stress as a result of a trauma they’ve experienced. Hence, PTSD.
Sources:
Trauma and its Wake: The Study and Treatment of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (Charles R. Figley, ed.)
War and the Soul: Healing Our Nation’s Veterans from Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder by Edward Tick, PhD.
“Shell shock, Gordon Holmes and the Great War” by A.D. Macleod, Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine.
“History of Post-traumatic Stress Disorder in Combat,” presentation by Mylea Charvat, MS to Veterans Administration
Posttraumatic Stress Disorder: Malady Or Myth? By Chris R. Brewin
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pillarofsalt 04 Apr 2012 3:38 PM
thank you, Charlie, for this article. It was hard to read, what with my heart thumping out of my chest, but I’m glad I live in a time and a place where therapists have good training and supportive and compassionate friends and family. I’m hoping the DSM-V will provide an even better diagnosis and more accessible help for people who are dealing with their own “rooted sorrow.” (Edit comment)
promoted by c.stark bookwench @pillarofsalt Is that yours? Is it a tattoo? It’s amazing. (Edit comment) Charlie Jane Anders @bookwench That totally is an amazing tattoo. (Edit comment) bookwench @Charlie Jane Anders It’s very simple and very intense. (Edit comment) pillarofsalt @Charlie Jane Anders Thanks! the text is the last line from Hubert Selby’s novel “the Willow Tree,” which is more or less about a Holocaust survivor taking in a kid fleeing from gang violence. I drew the Sisyphus part right after finishing the book/starting to deal with my PTSD. (Edit comment) pillarofsalt @bookwench yes! I got it about 7 years ago. I think it’s my favorite one. (Edit comment) bookwench @pillarofsalt Right, thank you – I’ve got that in my wishlist now. What an amazing line. And you drew that? That’s incredible. (Edit comment) pillarofsalt @bookwench my original drawing was much scribblier and the lovely fellow who put it on me cleaned it up really nicely. thanks! (Edit comment) Show earlier discussions Show promoted discussions only
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Minus a bunch of stuff at the very end, the relevance of which to whatever has escaped me, this post by macgearailt is the most complete presentation on the psychobehavioral syndrome called PTSD, that I have encountered outside of a graduate course in abnormal psychology. Kudos.
So when is she going to propose legislation to place all veterans in re-education camps for their own good?
Maybe she already has.
Per the Department of Veterans Affairs. PTSD is not a mental illness.. It is not a mental disorder. It is a mental injury, that can affect an undiagnosed mental illness. So basically, Dianne Feinstein is discriminating and stereotyping people for being veterans. So as far as I am concerned this is discrimination against creed. It is a stereotype, it is offensive and as a Veteran if this keeps up I will sue for discrimination. You cannot say because someone is belonging to a certain group that they are more likely to commit a crime. This is like saying because someone is white, black, Spanish, Mexican, Jewish, etc. Is more likely to kill someone. This is highly offensive. Stop voting for these people. They are discriminatory and we should not tolerate it. Diane Feinstein is prejudice against veterans and gun owners.
Sorry, Joel. I don’t know what Department of Veterans’ Affairs rep told you that PTSD is not a mental illness, but whoever it was, was wrong. Insofar as any condition listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) published by the American Psychiatric Association is a “mental disorder” or “mental illness,” PTSD, which is in fact listed therein, is a “mental disorder” or “mental illness.”
This woman is as crazy as a SHITHOUSE RAT. So “PTSD” is something brand new, huh? What did our WWI, WWII, Korea and Vietnam vets have? The same EFF’N THING!
This woman has far exceeded her expiration date and any possible usefullness on this earth planet. This is one baby who NEEDS to go out with the bath water. And take Pelosi and Boxer and the rest of those insane Kalifornicators with you
She’s not saying that veterans all have PTSD, shes saying that if the amendment is to be passed, there needs to be a way to CHECK for PTSD. Please read the quote and try to understand it. No where does she say that Veterans all have PTSD. THIS article, quoting her, is saying that.
She wants to prevent incidents like this: http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2005/01/mode-j15.html
She never says all veterans have PTSD.
Preventing incidents like the one to a report of which that hyperlink will take you, is probably a forlorn hope. In a nation of 350 million people, some of them are bound to trip off the wire from time to time, and even when someone has been acting conspicuously strange, until that strangeness rises to the level of permitting the inference that the person is dangerous to self and/or others, current laws do not permit depriving the strange person of his/her freedom or of any other of the rights guaranteed by the Constitution. Unless we are willing to run the risk of being locked up in a psychiatric facility because a random stranger, or one of our neighbors, has, on grounds likely to be riddled with subjective bias, reported us to the authorities as being mentally unstable and in need of further evaluation, I think we’ll just have to tolerate a certain number of unpleasant episodes like the one in which Andres Raya was a principal. And btw, remember that once you are in a psychiatric facility for “further evaluation,” the psychological and psychiatric professionals are likely to have biases of their own, and may assign you a diagnosis that will remain with you in perpetuity. Of course, mental health records, indeed, all medical records, are supposed to be private, but, in the current climate, I can imagine a future in which that privacy will be severely eroded.
Never posted on here before, read all the time but have never posted. This is absolutely infuriating! I am, in fact, a former Infantry soldier and an OEF veteran. How dare, ANYBODY accuse me of being incompetent, when their own ignorance shows a complete an total lack of intelligence. Attack the veteran, that’s always the right thing to do. Attack the people who readily and enthusiastically volunteered to take on the burden of your extended politics. War is nothing more than the iron fisted and brutal extension of politics. I VOLUNTEERED to take the fight to the enemy, regardless of it’s legitimacy. Does that make me right? No! However, I do think entitles me to AT LEAST the common courtesy of not being lumped into a group of crazy people. I’m not crazy, but I am now angry. How dare you label ME and men like me as dangerous victims of PTSD?
Our veterans lied about agent orange just so they could get benefits, at least that was official story. Pissing on the people that defend us doesn’t seem to be a problem for some, Randy
Does she get points for each of her 3 chins? Randy
How many combat veterans will avoid seeking help with PTSD issues now that our 2nd amendment rights will be revoked upon diagnosis. With the highest ever suicide rate in the military, we will keep our war fighters from getting the help they need. More will die from this than these laws will save.
The only democrat to vote “yes”on Cornyn’s amendment was Coons of DE-and he is a far left liberal-Blumenthal of CT voted “no”.Amazing-that turd lied about serving in Vietnam-he “misspoke”(twice,apparently) he said.I spent a year in Vietnam and I can assure you it’s not something one is unsure about remembering.So the phony war veteran now wants to grind his heel in the faces of real war veterans-I really hope the justice he deserves finds him.
Ptsd has been around as long as conflict, just under other names such as shell shock. And I do not recall when I was honorably discharged in 2010 after serving 12 years, saying I would no longer be under oath “to defend the constitution of the United States of America from ALL enemies foreign or domestic”. The very document that is under attack by our own government. By targeting veterans they are attacking “us” the sworn defenders of the rights of this country as a whole. We need to stand up and vote for removal of liberals that dont care who has fought for their country, paid the price (physicaly, or mentally), and will not hide when faced with a difficult task. Remove them and employ veterans ” true defenders and patriots” to run this country and continue to defend.
Excactly AR-15’s dont have a full auto. Neither do the M16’s we are issued, only 3 rd burst.
Umm…. Did anyone else notice that the weapon she is holding is on “Semi”
Just saying….. Good weapons safety, Senator.
No doubt modern wars are extremely stressing and will have consequences, mostly permanent on those affected. Having said that, not all those consequences will be negatives. In the past, when wars were, if you think about it, somehow more brutal, considering the distance from the enemy, as in hand-to-hand, bayonet charges, sword fights, spears, musket ranges, cannons, lack of medical support, lack of antibiotics and sterile bandages, lack of motorized transportation, field amputations, lack of comms, lack of knowledge about what was going on back home, and many other factors, veterans were usually well respected citizens after the wars had ended, many became politicians, many became great generals, many became inventors, entrepreneurs, builders, Law Enforcement, and their war experience was a plus in their resumes, because that usually meant that they had a hardened character and they understood that life is precious and nobody actually “owned” their own life, it could be taken or it could end any minute. People like that created civilization, invented the things that define us and we now take for granted, people like that founded this country, and the most successful and advanced cultures throughout time. For Feinstein, people like that are dangerous. Dangerous for tyrants and wanna-be tyrants that is.
Madam, first explain why your husband was one of the major military arms dealers world wide. Then, shut your pie hold on things that just make you look like an idiot. Additionally, it’s called an ARMALITE RIFLE, a designator kept by Colt when Armalite sold the manufacturing rights to them. Since that time other companies have adopted the “AR” portion to signify weapons that would be sold for DEFENSIVE purposes on or off a battlefield. SO, in short, your agenda is to disarm the American people, and is a direct offence and infringement against the 2nd Amendment. We have seen your ugly mug long enough, you are a disgrace, and you dishonor those buried at Arlington who fought and died for the Constitutional freedoms our forefathers also fought and died for. I challenge you, I DARE you, go stand one week watch with those men and women in Afghanistan. Then, go to high security prisons and ask those murderers if they need your stupidity to stop them! Then, ask us, WE THE PEOPLE, what our opinion is. You are on your own crusade, ignorance abound in your speeches, and you embarrass our country for even being voted into office. You do not even know how to handle a firearm. Lastly, firearms are TOOLS, they are not the issue, neither are law abiding citizens, and your attack IS AGAINST US. WE WILL NOT GO QUIETLY.
The Big answer to her question is simple.
Most US sitting presidents were of Military nature. Some were of combat missions. The Men who wrote the document we all read today. Were Men of Honor, Men of war. These men wrote a document knowing in the future that someone was going to try to change this and try to read it and interpert it there way. They new this and made sure to write it in there.
So for PTSD Combat Veterans that are crazy and should not have weapons,I think she needs to step back and look at the document she is trying to change. IN todays language and her interpertations, They are all crazy ? Maybe the one who is so fixated on Gun reform should be diagnosed with a OCD for gun reform. If I competivaly made argument on a subject as much as she has, I would be locked up on a dilusional compulsive dis order.A OCD label, and told that I was a conspiracist and a threat to Govt.Am I the only one who see this.
All of the ignorant comments about assassination, you’ll never take my guns, fighting the government, or the good senator meeting her end really need to stop. The idiots who say that stuff do nothing but fuel the fire and validate the push for gun control. What little chance there is that you may one day show the hippie liberal left that we gun owners are anything but a bunch tobacco chewing half wits with yellow rattle snake flags pinned up on your living room wall is completely destroyed by such remarks. If you want to show the world that you are a responsible gun owner start acting like it and refrain from making stupid comments. I have read plenty of thoughtful and well written comments in opposition to this crazed women’s rhetoric. Let’s keep our composure and maintain some dignity when we address the fanatics that would have our rights trampled on and who desecrate the honor of all who have served this nation.
What they also do not tell the public is that most combat vets are more grown up, have a real world view, work harder, and are better at how they handle problems, make better leaders at work and in public life … the other side of the coin is the group we put in public office have low moral values and have a hard time seeing the real world… So THANKS FELLOW VETS our best true leaders….Wisdom is not found in a collage but in living life…. the Bible said in their wisdom (government rulers) they became fools ….JESUS said they were snakes . (evil) does it not say evil will be called good and good would be called evil … our world is UP SIDE DOWN … that’s the problem and also why all the gun controls and attacks on all forms of liberty and freedom …. these people have a real FEAR of TRUTH !!!
I wish she would have been taught like the “rest of the military” the check and clear the weapons before picking them up…… Because that one is NOT ON SAFE. Perfect example of a politician getting into the working mans TOOLS.
Fights your wars on paper, while the REAL Americans use these “Death TOOLS” to ensure your FREEDOM and make sure your sleeping safe at night.
I wish the military would release the ” NUMBER OF SOLDIERS” on anti depressants. Once that is brought to lights, all of this issue of Meds and Guns will go away. It would force the hand to make a decision that isnt good for the GOV.
Shame on you Ms Feinstien, you might as well say the same thing about police, firefighters, doctors, nursers, well you get the idea.
Diane is so twisted up she defies logic. She had a concealed weapon’s permit for SF that is virtually impossible to obtain (unless you are connected they way she is). I sent her an email explaining my opposing position and she politely agree to disagree without addressing any of my concerns about self protection and the 2nd Amendment. “Do as I say, not as I do”. She has closed her mind to rational discussion and needs to be ignored since she isn’t willing to rationally discuss and look at the facts and come to a rational conclusion. Hope Harry Reid dumps anything she does. He did have an “A” NRA rating for the past 12 years.
What all of these government people are failing to realize with this is that it isn’t just the MILITARY who has PTSD. PTSD can occur to ANYONE who has had a traumatic experience, from abuse, rape, car accidents, robberies, etc. So there is no way that the government should ever be allowed to declare that just because a military veteran or personnel should not be allowed to own personal weapons is pure crap and just something to push towards the stupid ignorant people of this nation who follow the government gun grabbers.
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How on earth is PTST a “new phenomenon” when it has been well documented throughout the history of warfare… I stopped reading this nonsense after that part.
Am I the only that noticed that the weapon she is holding is on semi/fire. Too bad she did not have a negligent discharge…OOPS…my bad…
You have to be kidding Feinsteini? Do you realize how stupid that comment is? How on earth do you get elected?
Hey, I have no problem with this. If Sen. Feinstein says ‘all veterans have PTSD,’ then all veterans are entitled to a VA Disability rating that starts at 30%. It wouldn’t stop me from buying a gun from a private seller; it would, in fact, finance my planned arsenal upgrades.
If this bullshit passes, I am moving to Mars, and keeping the US Constitution with the added Amendment: None of these current Rights shall ever be threatened, altered, or infringed. Anyone who attempts to threaten, alter, or infringe on these rights will be shot repeatedly until dead, or incapacitated to a drooling “Pudding pack sucking” state that requires a crash helmet for everyday romps through society.
The big zero’s insanity is an acquired condition, given his liberal, communist upbringing, but there’s only one race on this planet that is clinically insane from birth – and she’s a member of it.
You heard it from the horse’s mouth,boys and girls in uniform. Remember this when and if you ever get orders to confiscate The Guns From The People….
True story – Combat Veteran – went out to the woods and hunted, get alone time etc. to help with his combat trauma. Finally went to the VA to get support for PTSD – they took his gun permit away in case he was a risk to himself or others.
And you wonder why veterans don’t seek help for PTS – there is enough stigma as there is without idiot politicians blaming gun violence on PTSD. It is more often to do with poverty and despondancy that combat trauma.
I called Feinsteins office to find out their position on this, they are in the process of trying to excuse the statements because of the flood of negative calls in response to her lame statement. IMHO the Senator should be charged under Federal laws for practicing medicine without a license, since she is trying to make the case that people she has never met have PTSD. As a veteran who has served honorably Aug 1976 to May 1998), and I have never been diagnosed with PTSD, I have passed several psychological screenings, required for specialized military duties such as duty as being a Drill Sergeant, , the Senator is obviously making highly questionable statements in order to do nothing but push a political agenda.
The article states
“The problem with expanding this is that, you know, with the advent of PTSD, which I think is a new phenomenon as a product of the Iraq War, it’s not clear how the seller or transfer of a firearm covered by this bill would verify that an individual was a member or veteran and there was no impairment of that individual with respect to having a weapon like this.”
Apparently the Senator is so deficient in her investigation of this issue that she never heard of “shell Shock”, “Soldiers Heart” or “Battle Fatigue” all of which date back to at least, WW1.
Perhaps the people of California should try to elect a Senator who is willing to actually study the issue before going on a political rampage to push her vendetta against those who honorably served the nation with their lives?
She carry’s she has armed body guards and she wants her finger on the drone button!
Dam…I think we have a psycho out of control! We should name a syndrome after her….Feinstein is that Israeli?
The woman, and I use the term loosely, is stark raving mad!
PTSD, is that like PMS ????
screw the “high road”, screw peace, screw the boring laws of “wrong and right” that’s been drilled into the very core of every amercans heart! As an Ex-Military individual who has fought to “defend” this country and our “freedoms” all I have to say is when does enough become enough? when will everyone finally see that the entire system is corrupted and no matter who we elect to office no matter how much we blame congress, the president, terrorists, its OUR fault this country has become the cancerous organism it is, WE are to blame for allowing this insanity to take hold and root itself into the core of the world…..if cancer is not removed swiftly and completely the organism will die…..every cell dies…..if we continue to merely talk about solutions and mumble amongst ourselves, we doom not only ourselves but the rest of the world as well…..I apologize if you do not see things as i do, however, simply because your ignorant, infantile mind cannot conceive the sheer depth of the feces your world is in(which honestly should automatically revoke your rights to an opinion, however it still remains your right) does not make the problem go away….
Sadly, in due time, the talking will stop. There will be other forms of communication that some America hating, ivory tower libtard professor will not be able to silence.
Vets only need a knife and 20′ if you haven’t dropped them dead by then it is to late
PTSD has been around for quite awhile. It has been called being shell shocked. Only since, I believe, Vietnam has the name been changed to the acronym PTSD. Feinstein is an idiot and all that follow her are too.
I think she needs to wake up and realize PTSD is not just a condition that veterans suffer from… So i guess even a woman that has been beaten and raped is not supposed to own a gun for protection because she has been traumatized?!?! People who have lived sheltered lives have no business making laws IMO.
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