Here’s what we know about the shootings at the Twin Peaks Restaurant in Waco. Some 170 bikers are still in jail, with bail set at $1m each. We know that cops “returned fire” on the bikers “striking multiple gang members.” We know that nine people are dead. With no word from the Waco coroner on the types of rounds used in the killings – handgun or rifle – we still don’t have an official report on who killed whom, why, when and where. And now washingtonpost.com offers an eyewitness account of the incident. . .
In several interviews in recent days, the Cossack rider [president of a North Texas chapter of the motorcycle gang, who asked not to be identified because he is now in hiding and said he fears for his life] offered a different story. He said that the Cossacks were invited to the Twin Peaks patio that day — by a Bandido leader, who offered to make peace in a long-running feud between the two gangs. That invitation was a setup for an ambush, though, according to the Cossack. That’s why the dead included six Cossacks, one Scimitar (an ally of the Cosacks) and only two Bandidos . . .
The Cossack said he and the others congregated on the outdoor patio and started ordering food and drinks. They chatted with other bikers from smaller “mom and pop” bike clubs, who were already well into their burgers and beers and margaritas ahead of the 1 p.m. confederation meeting . . .
The parley with the Bandidos had been set for 11 a.m., the Cossack said, but the Bandidos didn’t arrive until about 12:15, when about 100 of them pulled into Twin Peaks in a long, loud line of Harleys.
Trouble started almost immediately, he said: One of the Bandidos, wearing a patch that identified him as a chapter president, ran his bike into a Cossack standing in the parking lot. The Cossack who was hit was a “prospect,” a man in his mid-20s who was “striving to become” a full member of the club.
“They came up really fast, and the prospect turned and faced the bikes,” the Cossack chapter president said. “He fell backward into other [parked] bikes. The guy who hit him stopped and got off of his bike and said, ‘What are you doing? Get . . . out of my way. We’re trying to park.’ ”
Cossacks quickly jumped to the prospect’s defense, he said: “Guys were saying, ‘You’re disrespecting us,’ or, ‘We’re not backing down.’ ” . . .
In a blink, it started, he said: “Two punches: One from them, one from us.”
A Bandido with a patch identifying him as sergeant-at-arms of the same chapter threw a punch at Richard Matthew Jordan II, 31, known as “Richie,” who was from Pasadena, Tex. Jordan punched the guy back.
“At that point in time, the sergeant in arms shot Richie point-blank,” the Cossack said.
Police said Jordan died of a gunshot wound to the head.
“Then all the Bandidos standing in the parking lot started pulling guns and shooting at us,” he said. “There were maybe 60 or 70 of us in the parking lot. . . . We took off running. We scattered. Three of our guys went down instantly. They caught a couple more that tripped and fell, and Bandidos were shooting at them.” . . .
He said that the second man to die was Daniel Raymond Boyett, 44, known as Diesel, a “road captain” in the Cossacks from Waco. Police said that Boyett died from gunshot wounds to the head.
The third man down was “Dog,” whose real name is Charles Wayne Russell, 46, of Winona. Russell’s cause of death was listed as a gunshot wound to the chest.
The Cossack said that he believes the Bandidos had no intention of making peace that day.
“It was a setup from start to finish,” he said.
The story has not been verified. If true, one wonders why the coroner did not release more information about the wounds of those gunned down – including whether or not they were shot by police. And why the police arrested 170 people, not all of which were directly involved in the incident. And why no video has been released.
Watch this space. [h/t Hasdrubal]
Interesting. I’m waiting to see the comments from those who had already convicted the cops of an “ambush”.
Let’s see the video.
Did the cops have enough evidence for each one of those 170 to arrest them?
I could be wrong, but my money is on most of them being released without charges, at least the smart ones that don’t talk to the police.
Nobody really accused police of ambush. Shooting innocents due to severe negligence, maybe the evidence is still out. Arresting a bunch of innocent people on trumped up charges as a form of legal harassment and violating there civil rights well yea it looks that way. 170 people where not shooting. If this mans story is true then at best a fight broke out at a bar some bikers where hanging out at, shots where fired and a couple People killed who where involved I the fight maybe. Then the police arrested everybody who didn’t work there for 1 million each in bail. That is abuse of their power sorry. If they are not doing it to cover up, then they are doing it to suppress this group, the majority of who are NOT murdering anybody.
Biker gangs have been known to use false info to wage PR wars. If the shooting part is true though then that would mean the police assertion that they were the ones that did all the killing is an out and out lie. I am also inclined to believe this account because it makes more sense then having the police stand there and watch a group of men beat each other to death with melee weapons before shooting the survivors.
Where did you get the “police did all the killing”? Everything I read was the bikers did most of the killing, but that 3-4 were from police after the shoot-out between gangs started, and a few thought it would be a great idea to shoot at the cops.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/05/21/waco-twin-peaks-shooting-updates-14-police-officers-fired-thousands-of-rounds-on-200-bikers-killing-9-wounding-18-two-thirds-of-those-arrested-had-no-prior-criminal-history/
That link contains some uneeded hyperbole. “14 Police Officers Fired “thousands of rounds” on 200 Bikers,” seems to be implying that it was some kind of mass murder attempt by police.
If you read the link in your link to the lawsuit they’re using as a source, you will find “thousands of bullet rounds were fired by law enforcement officials and gang members.” You will also find that the lawsuit is not against police, but by a restaraunt owner sharing a parking lot with the Twin Peaks, against the Twin Peaks restaraunt and associated businesses.
The lawsuit document doesn’t have much detail about the actual shootout, but does say that “Law enforcement agents used Plaintiff’s porch and surrounding walls to protect themselves from incoming fire.” I don’t know how much weight to give anything written by people who use the term ‘bullet rounds,’ though.
Even if the hyperbole were true, ‘thousands of rounds’ fired by 14 cops means, if you assume a minimum of 2k rounds from cops and zero from bikers, an average of 142 rounds per cop. Assuming further that they all had rifles, with standard capacity 30rd magazines, that’s close to dumping five full mags for each cop.
It seems obvious to me that this is a gross exaggeration, but the lawsuit link is sort of interesting.
http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/wacotrib.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/8/eb/8eb01748-fffd-11e4-a4eb-83f98935a085/555e497a47bc9.pdf.pdf
Fourteen officers fired “thousands of rounds” into a crowd of two-hundred-plus bikers and only killed nine while wounding only eighteen? That would be worse marksmanship than even the New York City police are noted for and these are Texas police officers, presumably far more familiar with firearms than New York cops. I seriously doubt the accuracy of that Conservative Treehouse claim.
” If true, one wonders why the coroner did not release more information about the wounds of those gunned down – including whether or not they were shot by police. And why the police arrested 170 people, not all of which were directly involved in the incident. And why no video has been released.”
Because wouldn’t that taint (either way) public perception of the incident and make a jury trial that much more difficult?
Not saying that’s the reason, but it is a possibility.
A statement from an unnamed source that has no way of being verified and that claims a rival gang killed his men. I see no reason to think this could be a biased account of the events.
Didn’t we hear there are a zillion security cameras? If so, it sure can be verified.
As I posted yesterday, I’m waiting for more information to come out before I make a decision on who’s to blame. That being said, I have little doubt (even with current information) that some of those 170 people that where arrested have been swept up into something in which they had no involvement other than owning a bike and eating at a breastaurant.
+1
You mean it maybe was the Outlaw Bikers fault?? I’m shocked….no really…
Yeah, anyone with a prior history(real or perceived) is always guilty and deserve what they get….
Moby Dick. That’s a porno right?
So biker clubs show up for a meeting, start fighting, and its not there fault this whole thing started?? Pretty good crack your smokin….
“The story has not been verified. If true, one wonders why the coroner did not release more information about the wounds of those gunned down – including whether or not they were shot by police.”
The coroner does not have all the information needed to assess that latter info. Once the investigation is complete I’m sure that information will be available. But some folks just can’t stop speculating in the absence of information.
As to the eyewitness… maybe. He’s hardly an unbiased source.
It seems a little far fetched and exaggerated, but that is the most credible account I have read.
And yet still no video? No report on the GSWs? Even the Zimmerman case had more information released than this.
It’s kind of maddening. When I’m at a scene, I tell people “I’m a physical evidence guy.” If what people tell me doesn’t match the evidence on-scene, I’ll just tell them. I’ll give them a chance to “revise” their statements, although my report will contain a synopsis of all the salient statements.
Physical evidence, and an intelligent analysis thereof, is more valuable than a thousand news reports.
Although I do believe the Bandidos were the a$$holes. At least most Hell’s Angels and Mongols in the LA are respectful of LE – more or less.
Some of the people arrested where former LEO and military honorably discharged.
So was one of the guys killed, also with no rap sheet.
You do know the Bandidos was formed by marines, is *very* popular with marines, it’s colors are marines colors, and has dozens of support or “puppet” clubs (who also use the red/gold) who are marine based clubs right?
People keep pointing out that there were former or active military like that proves they weren’t up to no good. The Bandidos and it’s puppet clubs are FULL of former and active military.
They only had one firearm to check for bullet match. Here it seems there are 30 or more and a lot of bullets to test for each and they also have to match positions and ballistics if they can. It is one big FUBARed cluster f*ck and it will take a while to sort out.
The story sounds pretty fishy to me. There was a large police presence including numerous SWAT officers standing there with their fully automatic rifles and they just ride up and start shooting?
The police were out front, but the guy’s story talks about the start of shooting on the patio. the account sounds confused overall but the police weren’t on the patio from what I can tell.
Still, it just doesn’t sound logical, even if the cops were on the other side of the building. Most criminals look around to make sure the coast is clear before they start sh!t.
The Bandito’s might be criminal assholes, but I’m pretty sure no one chooses a mall parking lot at noon on a Saturday to stage an ambush on a rival gang. With 200+ witnesses.
An unnamed source is almost always someone trying to set the narrative. You’re right, whatever the Bandidos are they’re not going to set up an ambush in this manner. If it comes out that this account is mostly true and the Bandidos P started it all by killing a Cossak prospect, I’ll be surprised. Anything is possible and I’m not sticking up for the Bandidos, but something about this smells and has from the start.
Pretty sure PD said this started in the bathroom and then blamed the owners of the restaurant. Has this version been recanted?
That is the original police story, with the fight then spilling out into the parking lot, but it does not match summaries of the waitresses’ statements, or, apparently, video from inside the restaurant obtained by AP, which shows the incident starting outside, and everyone inside ducking for cover in the back. This version does generally match other reports that said the fight started when one bike ran over the foot of another biker in the parking lot.
I also agree with RF that there is no reason to have detailed 170 people, the vast majority of whom had nothing to do with this case, other than their colors. Association is not enough to establish criminal liability or even conspiracy. That will probably cost them down the road.
Much of what the police have had to say must be taken with a grain of salt. For example, the police spokesman originally said that they had collected over a thousand weapons from the scene–a figure later revised to a bit over 300, and that probably included pocket knives and legally carried firearms that were not used in the altercation. And why the excessive bail? Unless they have blood or GSR on a suspect, there is no reason for it. There is a lot of spin going on, and I think the Waco PD is in over its head.
Excellent post.
“If true, one wonders why the coroner did not release more information about the wounds of those gunned down – including whether or not they were shot by police. ”
I am just applying common sense here but a bullet is a bullet is a bullet. Odds are, most of the bikers used rounds most the police do (9mm, .40, .45) so unless the police exclusively used 5.56, they have to try to match grooves on barrels and they have quite a few pistols between the police and bikers: probably 30 or more so. Therefore the lab s going to take some time and the police (smartly) don’t want to jump hasty conclusions. Gun fights are fast, forensics is very slow because erroneous convictions of an innocent person or hiding police misdeeds are a very bad thing. Better to wait and be sure.
I suspect that there is less variability to the police firearms than for guns belong to the motorcycle gangs. Maybe a lot of Glock 17s, etc. Experts can apparently identify the type of firearm from the bullets it shot. And, then, each barrel is unique, and, thus can often be tied to the bullets it shot.
Which is to say that the police and crime lab people should be able to determine what firearms shot the bullets that killed which of the victims. And, they have an incentive to find some, if not all, of the bullets to not have been shot from police firearms. Which means, to me, that we will likely know the truth or falsity of this rumor fairly quickly. Either most of the wounds, and esp. fatal wounds, were the result of shots by police, most likely from rifles of one type or another. Or, they are mostly handgun wounds, which would suggest, to me, that other motorcycle gang members were at fault.
Well, one leg up they’ll have is rifling profile. Police generally carry Glocks which have polygonal rifling. Bikers tend to lean toward large caliber guns, especially revolvers. This means, they’re more likely to have used traditional land/groove rifled weapons.
If this story is true, it then makes perfect sense why 170 people are held on $1M bond… If 100+ people who planned an ambush show up and then execute that ambush, well, yeah, this shoe fits.
Yup. I’m one to jump to conclusions and convict the cops. 99% of the time, it’s the right conclusion. I’ll gladly eat my foot if I’m wrong.
If I’m wrong, I’m wrong. If you tell me gravity was shut off by King Obama, I’m going to be skeptical to the point of denying that, until I see proof… It’s called having a brain and not being a boot licker. Of course I jump to the most rational conclusion. But I can also be proven wrong and accept it…
Dustin, holding cops accountable is not only understandable, it is necessary. What frustrates me is the people who not only are willing to believe the worst about cops, they WANT to believe it. Those are the ones who are trying their damnedest to push the police into the enemy camp. It’s counter-productive to our cause as supporters of the 2nd amendment.
Well said, sir.
It’s the same Tactics that police have used on citizens for decades. If criminals make up 1% of the population, and Police treat 100% of the population like criminals, Doesnt it make sense that Majority of citizens begin to distrust Police?
Is it a surprise that People are as skeptical of Police, as Police are of the Public?…. Do cops, or their supporters really expect any different? from the 99% legal,law abiding people? The police dont need to be pushed into the enemy camp, they are running towards it in droves.
Even if criminals are only 1% of the population, they don’t really wear uniforms so police can tell who they are. Well, except criminal gangs, I suppose.
Not that this excuses any heavy handed tactics by itself, just saying it’s not as simple as you might hope to figure out who you’re talking to at any given moment.
@kent–“What frustrates me is the people who not only are willing to believe the worst about cops, they WANT to believe it.”
Substitute biker for cop and that is how the media plays on weak minded sheeple who never question what is told to them. The problem with your statement is that 1%er Bikers are known to be violent knuckle-draggers who resort to violence over the smallest infraction, so the shock comes to we Citizens when the cops consistently out perform them in acts of public gang violence. 1%ers are just like local street gangs who when members go to prison they find out that they are small but useful fish in the business of non-government funded organized crime. This is rare to see this amount of blood shed in public from the 1%ers, since public blood letting is bad for business, and 1%ers are held accountable for every shot fired like the bail amount suggests, unlike public funded cops.
“It’s counter-productive to our cause as supporters of the 2nd amendment.” What is counter productive is Police who try to disarm their fellow citizens and say I’m just following orders. The so-called good cops never arrest the bad ones, and just like our corrupt Democrats and Republicans, it makes a smart man realize they are on the same team.
Cops are part of the state. We should be VERY VERY VERY vigilant in our skepticism of the state. This is why the BURDEN OF PROOF in criminal matters is on the state. The State and its henchmen should always be required to justify their actions beyond what a private citizen would. They should always be held to a MUCH higher standard. From the lowliest assistant dog catcher to the president.
What baffles me is that you take a bunch of people who are normally not trusting of government ( distrust of the state is a helathy virtue) and as soon as you wrap a portion of that government in blue,!those people lose all their healthy skepticism.
The arrests were essentially for felony murder in many cases. This is something that they can do, when people die during the commission of a felony. If 100 Bandidos did, in fact, ride up together, and immediately instigate a firefight by shooting some other bikers, then those 100 Bandidos may very well all be guilty of felony murder, even though many/most may not have been armed. Much less though for the other bikers, if this was a Bandido trap. We shall see – when the charges are more formalized and/or dropped for some of those arrested.
In CA, murder charges could indeed be filed under those circumstances. I’m not sure if that applies to TXstate law, but I would be surprised if it didn’t.
Felony murder requires people in the joint commission of a felony in which one or more of that group commits murder or causes a death in the commission of that felony. Say you and I rob a store and I shoot the clerk we can both be tried. However if you and I go shopping and I decide to to shoot the clerk, your off the hook unless the state can prove you knew about it before hand.
Also if you and I plan a robbery and drive there separately BUT on the way you stop and shoot somebody else it’s not felony murder for me.
There is almost no logical legal theory I can think of for holding all those people as such. At least half of them appear to be innocent bystanders or even intended victims.
Adjusting the tin foil a bit… What information that is publicly available right now, including unsubstantiated accounts, play nicely into the anti-gun agenda, federalized policing agenda, and anti-cop or pro-accountablility agenda (the latter group would include me). //tin foil off//
I don’t actually think that there is a coordinated effort to play into these agendas but it all happens to do so well.
I cant help but think this story is plant to confuse the media going into the next cycle.
Why would a President from a “North Central Texans chapter” who is “unidentified” talk to a WaPo reporter? Knowing full well there aren’t but a handful of North Central chapters of the Cossacks he isnt going to be unidentified for long.. Also knowing that if the info was true, every one of those chapters will either be blown up, burned down or shot up before summer is out.
If the AP story is to be believed regarding the actual video viewing form inside Twin Peaks it directly contradicts and undercuts this story.
Reporter is from Texas and works the crime beat.
Also as to the bullets. The police would have standardized rounds for caliber while others would be using a variety and that would cut down on the work matching bullets found to the gun if there were rounds left in the magazine or on the person who fired.
I’m still trying to figure out how the Mahms Demand is making this about Open Carry? It seems to be totally unrelated…
What’s this guys name…Houdini? How did he escape the long arm if he was right in the middle?
The incident was a total fuster cluck. The investigation has just started, so we’ll all have to wait and see. Most likely, nobody is going to come out of this mess looking good. Nobody.
seems pretty far fetched to belive a story that include people commiting murder with whitnesses and loads of cops right there. except for the cops…. they can do that sort of thing.
I keep reading questions that imply that the million bail may be linked to a potential police coverup. Has anyone stopped to consider that bail is set by a judge, and not by the police chief? The two are not related.
Haha. Really funny. Oh wait you’re serious? Let me laugh even harder.
You seriously believe judges never cover for cops? If so then I have a bridge to Hawaii for sale. The judge could we’ll be covering up to help not only the cops, but the prosecutor too by making it look like theyve just gotten a huge bust and crippled some gangs.
On a side note, judges and cops do work in cahoots. There was a case in Mingo Co WV where the local judge was covering for the sheriff, who was running an Oxy drug business under the table. It didn’t come to light until the sheriff screwed over the wrong person and got murdered for it.
Waiting for the video until even beginning to speculate how this epic mother of a cluster went down.
– Cops killed them all
– Offers easy deals or immunity to anyone who would back up their BS story
This is standard procedure, folks.
What a relief! No further need for discussion or investigation. Our own personal expert has spoken. Why mess around with those pesky details like forensics and what not? We have the answer from Yee himself! All hail Yee!
Guess who’s refusing to divulge the details and keeping everyone involved locked up with insane bonds?
Oh right, the cops.
Ohhhh, nice try, but no. Cops do not set bonds. The prosecuting attorneys office will REQUEST a certain bond amount in cases such as this, but it is the JUDGE who decides what the bond will be. Care to try again??
Newsflash: cops, prosecutors, and the vast majority of judges all bat on the same government team.
It’s cute when people actually think they have any sort of meaningful check and balance.
It’s a sure sign of the inherent weakness of your argument when, upon each successful counterpoint to it, your only resort is to an even deeper, wider, more villainous and unproven conspiracy theory.
Oh, you mean judges don’t routinely give cops carte blanche to conduct raids as they see fit? That DA’s are not only bound by law in many states (via the so-called police bill of rights legislation) but also by professional courtesy to give cops maximum benefit of the doubt, versus none whatsoever to civilians? And that DA’s and police frequently coordinate their efforts to ensure convictions by any means necessary?
See, his was not a counterpoint, it was a completely pointless attempt to use semantics to prove there is some sort of independent judiciary and prosecutor that is supposed to counteract police malfeasance, when there is really none whatsoever. The police, DA and judge might as well be a single entity.
Sorry all you riders out there, but I have a few words of advice for you. If there is a place where biker gangs are getting together, to meet, to greet, to have a party, or whatever, don’t be there. It has to do with good judgement. What happens next and in cleaning up the mess is going to be out of your control.
Looking for the “like” button. I used to own a medium size sports bar, next to a HD dealership. My wife and I both ride and the place was known to be biker (and everyone else) friendly. Once while I was away, a group of 1%er wanna be’s came in and had a proposition for my wife. They wanted to basically “adopt” our bar as their hangout. They promised lots of business etc. etc. My wife laughed in their faces and said we didn’t allow trash like them in the bar anyway, then told them to get the *&^% out. You have to know my wife…lol.
I generally feel safer around those “biker gangs” than I do when driving on the road with cages full of idiots paying more attention to their phones than the road.
Generally, I agree with you. Specifically, in the circumstance of two rival biker gangs with a long time dispute gathering in large numbers, I’d take my chances on a Sunday ride with clueless minivan drivers.
Also, my sympathies to the employees of Twin Peaks, who didn’t have a choice.
Swept up… huh? Poor babies. And to quote Jimi Hendrix-“blah blah woof woof”.
If they released a conclusive report now, only a week after the incident, some of you would be claiming it was a rush to judgment, just like the Baltimore indictments.
If action comes too quickly, it’s a prepackaged exoneration designed to whitewash police misconduct. If action comes too slowly, then it’s post-screwup stonewalling designed to whitewash police misconduct.
If only three-gun matches would similarly let you take yours shots, then draw the bull’s eye around the groupings.
But that’s what cops do all the time. Shoot first, then make up stories about “feeling threatened” afterwards.
“……all the time……”
I don’t doubt that there are criminal cops out there. Hell, I’ve argued that some criminals become cops specifically because it affords them some cover for their crimes. I’ll even concede that somewhere, some serial killer wannabe has become a cop just so he can have the opportunity to kill someone.
To take those outliers and define the entire profession in those terms, however, is just stupid.
On the contrary, the law specifically allows a completely subjective police opinion to be treated as fact. Outside the castle doctrine (and there are many restrictions for homeowners shooting in their house), no civilian will ever be allowed to use the low bar of “I felt threatened” in a self-defense case, but somehow cops are constantly given this incredible leeway. And since there is no way to prove feelings, that line is a get-out-of-jail-free card for cops.
Remember the Walter Scott shooting? Guess what the cop said. “I felt threatened”. Like I said, all the time.
Clearly none of this “motorcycle” violence would have occurred if the .gov would just ban Harley’s. They can all ride Vespas instead.. /sarc
You laugh, but I remember a friend who served as an MP in West Germany in the 80’s telling me the Hells Angels there rode scooters because it was too expensive to own and especially insure a Harley Davidson. Never did know if he was pulling my leg. I do know that overseas biker clubs make the stateside clubs look like pikers. When they go to war, it’s total war.
You bet. Not too many years ago a Scandinavian biker group fired an anti tank missle into their rivals club house. Them fellas was not half stepping it.
A whole lot of circular firing squad going on with this. I can personally tell you that I’ve never been on a shooting scene that was this complicated – and I’ve helped out on multiple shooting scenes. Even shootings with involving 1-2-3 shooters, the final investigations take weeks and months. I’m totally fine with whatever outcome as long as it is based upon a thorough investigation, physical evidence, and the totality of the circumstances.
Heck, I’ve taken cops to jail and bikers to jail. As long as the charges are proper let the chips fall where they may.
@Accur81- “Heck, I’ve taken cops to jail and bikers to jail. As long as the charges are proper let the chips fall where they may”
You seem to be a man before you are a cop and that personal discretion would go a long way with me in a professional encounter. You seem to have skills at deescalating situations that would normally result in a gunfight to your inferior brother officers, who signed up to be above the law and legally kill citizens. Police recruiting is just like in the military, (except of course, supposedly, not instilling the FTW combat attitude), where not all who sign up are good men and have good intentions for the use of their lethal training.
I am an honest man in all I say and believe, and I would die telling the truth, is my convictions. No amount of evil is ever necessary to do a little good. So Here goes sir, How do you tell yourself that your profession is any less corrupt than that of the bikers, who usually only violently harm other criminal bikers or societal rejects(junkies, prostitutes, club hangarounds). Police officers have more impact on all social classes and less restraint on target selection than the criminals, who know they face consequences from breaking the law, where as you get a Union representative. Police and white collar criminals are ten times worse in the damage to their intended victims than 1%ers, since cops and whitecollars ruin lives mainly by the pen, where most Outlaws are brutally honest about their intentions with the sword.
+1 🙂
The truth about hating cops by Robert Fargo.
Straight up Robert wants this to so badly be the fault of the cops….in a foaming at the mouth sort of way.
This was a MASSIVE crime scene. It is going to take a long time to collect all of the evidence, interview hundreds of people, phone records, video etc. Wanting case info at this time to satisfy your conspiracy theories is just not going to happen.
Arresting 170 I would imagine is to shut down the whole thing and stop further violence.
The truth is usually boring.
So Larry says, “Straight up Robert wants this to so badly be the fault of the cops….in a foaming at the mouth sort of way.”
That’s pathetic, Larry. Trolling? Jealous sniping? Weak social skills?
There is a lot of controversy surrounding what happened, and who did what by whom..
In your own words:
” It is going to take a long time to collect all of the evidence, interview hundreds of people, phone records, video etc. Wanting case info at this time to satisfy your conspiracy theories is just not going to happen.”
Try to refrain from your rabid, irresistible urge to Lick badges and Boots… Strapping on your slurrpin pads, and giving high 5’s, while Telling everyone the investigation isnt over yet, is a little hypocritical..
Help me out here. Point out for me where he said ONE word of support for the police. He said it is a completely FUBAR crime scene. It is. He said it will take time to process. It will. He said they may have arrested all the bikers present to prevent a gang war. It’s a possibility. I guess logical statements equal “boot licking” in your fantasy world of paranoia. I remember when I had a problem with everyone in positions of authority, but then I grew up. Cops are like everyone else. Some are outstanding, the majority are good, and a few shouldn’t be wearing the badge.
The Cossack’s have an agenda and a story. The Bandido’s have an agenda and a story.
LEO have an agenda and a story. NONE of them are going to be the truth.
Some hospital cases.
1-GSW thru and thru anterior to posterior left neck-no surgery- prob pistol round
2-GSW entered right anterior axillary line nipple level and skittered around anterior rib cage and could be palpated sub-Q on left chest-no surgery. pistol round
3. GSW right supraclavicular space down and lateral entering thoracic cavity but hitting mid-thoracic rib and exiting laterally-no surgery. prob pistol round
4-GSW to proximal femur- bullet lodged in bone. left, I think. pistol round
5-GSW head posterior occipital lateral entrance (right, I think) and GSW left femoral artery-no surgery- only death in hospital. don’t know weapon type. no exit wound in head maybe pistol. Death from femoral artery injury. exsanguinated.
6-GSW liver- got explored. don’t know round.
Extremely credible source.
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