By Sean Nolan
This was going to be a full review of the Rock Island Armory 22 TCM Standard. I’ve had this gun open and apart so many times and I have about 250 rounds through it. I’ve also had a few chances to talk shop with the nice folks at Armscor, and I have dealt with a couple pretty big hitches. So it could almost be a full-on review, but it is not. As comfortable as I am with this pistol, I haven’t had enough trouble free time with it and I will certainly post an update once I have the disposable funds to put another 500 through it. Until then, two problem free boxes simply isn’t enough . . .
Overall Appearance
At first glance, the gun looks great Parkerized with Rock Island’s (former) signature billboard roll mark on the slide. I always thought I would hate that look, but the color fill is a matte gray rather than a garish white. The reverse side of the slide has a simple TCM roll mark. When I got it, it was dripping in that petrochemical sludge RIA uses. Once that was cleared away it revealed a smooth, even finish.
The grips leave a bit to be desired, though. They’re somewhat ill fitting and made of black plastic. The image below shows some of the QC fail, but this is not a problem in functionality.
Thankfully, Armscor has a good supply of VZ Operators just for this gun, at an ok price too.
Visually, this is a fairly basic double stack 1911. It’s commander length, but Armscor dubs it, “Midsize” or “MS” because Colt apparently owns the trademark on the word “commander” when referring to 1911 pistols. While there’s no prancing pony gracing the slide, it is still a 1911. While she may be a little chubby where your hand goes, she’s still sexy.
Fit and Finish
The finish is good. Mine has a bit of peening evident at the slide stop notch, but I’ll get into that shortly. It didn’t come that way. The interior shows tool marks in inconsequential places. There’s some rattle, but not bad considering it’s a lower cost production gun. Everything goes where it is supposed to, fits as it should, and moves where it’s meant to.
Ease of everything
Again, this is, at its heart, a 1911 with can be a love/hate sort of thing. It’s also a double stack gun, which some people hate. I find that it fits my hand well, point naturally, and feel great. I do, however, have larger hands, so your opinion may vary. In testing, several people of both genders and many hand sizes fondled it, tried the trigger, and shot it. The only complaint was that smaller-handed folks have to change hand position to reach the slide stop. (Yes, I know. That’s another argument. I showed them how to slingshot it, yet some people insist on using the lever.)
Disassembly is slightly different from a standard 1911. The TCM MS doesn’t have a bull barrel, but it does have a reverse taper. There is also a full length guide rod, but not a reverse plug, so it comes apart the way a GI pistol does. The slight difference I mentioned? The guide rod plug has a rimmed hole in the middle. Tender fingers might find this a bit uncomfortable.
Handling
I’m not saying it again. You either know it, or you don’t by now.
The trigger is wonderful. I’m not a competition shooter so can’t compare it to a competition trigger. It should not be compared to one anyway. Factory spec says the trigger should break at 4-6 pounds. The trigger on my gun breaks at three. I’m not complaining a bit. It’s clean and crisp, without much — if any — take up. Over travel is non-existent on my gun, but there is also a set screw, should it ever crop up. The trigger is much more than expected on a gun at this price point and it makes up or the crappy grips.
Once again, the grips suck. They serve their purpose, as they are attached and grippy, but that’s about it. The grip panels aren’t fitted well and look sloppily made. They don’t, however, interfere with function or…grippiness, but they leave the hand wanting.
The sights are “meh” for lack of a better word.. The rear sight is adjustable for both windage and elevation and has bright white dots. Adjustment clicks are positive and easy to use. The front sight is a blade with no dot. This has the unfortunate effect of making the front sight vanish in low light, or against dark targets. It can be easily fixed with a bit of sight paint or nail polish, or a pin drill and a bit of white paint. Or by replacing it. RIA should have done this to begin with, pairing such a plain front sight with such a useful rear sight is a mistake. One way or the other would be better.
It’s like they want to sell you an upgraded front sight or something.
The gun came with a single magazine. It is, in reality, a Mec-Gar .38 Super mag with the feed lips trimmed. The follower is the same, and this caused issues at first. Until it’s broken in a bit, the follower trips the slide stop a little early. The problem is that the shelf on the follower is about a 32nd of an inch too high. This causes the slide stop to engage early, but not completely. After 150 rounds the problem solved itself, but the slide has a burr where the slide stop peened it. The reason this happens is .38 Super is a tiny bit bigger in case diameter than the 22 TCM. So the follower comes up just a hair higher.
This target was shot at 10 yards. Two magazines, rapid, brass for scale. Yes, it’s a zombie. My daughter picked it.
Ammo Performance
Ok, so I did drag out the chronograph. Armscor says their proprietary 22 TCM hits 2000fps out of a 4.25 barrel and maybe it does if you test your ammo in Nevada in August. Or if you let a round simmer a bit in a hot chamber. I had exactly one round break 2000 and it was sitting in the barrel for 5 minutes after a rapid string. There are two flavors of TCM ammo available commercially, Armscor Precision and Armscor USA. In my testing, I found them to be the same thing. The brass, primers, projectiles, and powder all appear identical, and the average velocities were so close as to make no difference. For what it’s worth, the Armscor USA branded ammo chronographs out a bit more consistently in my samples.
Low 1853 fps
High 2072 fps
Average 1932 fps
Extreme Spread 219 fps
The Good
Once the extractor was tuned, it ran beautifully. The thunderous boom and insignificant recoil are joyous, and you have 17 of those before you reload. It feels great and is accurate. I was shooting 12 Gauge and .410 shells at seven yards with ease. The zombie target below was shot rapid at 15 yards, off hand. I also took a couple 50 yard shots on milk jugs and at 4 inch dots. Jugs explode, and I do mean explode. So does fruit. And cinder blocks. So did the buzzard that was harassing my chicken coop. (Not as violently as the rest, but muscle and organ tissue are more durable.)
The Bad
The grips suck. The sights… suck. Ammo availability sucks.
Mine came with an under-tensioned extractor. This lead to my first box being a string of FTEs and shouted profanities. I shot an email to Armscor regarding the FTE issue and received a phone call the next day. They gave me several things to try and then advised me to send in the gun. They were very helpful, very polite, and very prompt. And I ignored their advice.
I was not about to ship my new gun off to Pahrump without trying to tune the extractor myself. Now, this should be done with an extractor tensioner. You should use a gauge or something to make sure you are doing it right. You should just send it to the factory, or take it to your local gunsmith.
All that said, I pulled it out, stuck it 1/3rd of the way back in, and gave it a tug with the curve. Don’t try this at home, kids, it’s not the recommended method. It is pretty damned effective though, and the gun has run like a champ ever since. If you ignore my warnings and fiddle with your own extractor, remember that it’s a spring. You can add or relieve tension by bending it ever so slightly in one direction or the other. But seriously, don’t do it. If you get it wrong, you can weaken it, and cause a break. You only get so many tries before you weaken it to uselessness.
And for the price ($742 MSRP, $575 street) on this thing, and I only get one magazine?
What do I love?
It will set off Tannerite.
Last time I checked – yesterday – neither Armscor nor VZ had grips listed for the TCM pistols.
Got a direct link?
https://vzgrips.com/gun-grips/para-ordinance
I forgot to mention that to Dan so he could link it. The grips on the double stack RIA, are Para style. They MAY have to be modified, but RIA says nothing about it, and they come standard on the TCM VZ.
http://us.advancedtactical.com/shop/parts/
Sorry, forgot this link as well. Advanced tactical is Armscor’s… I dunno, sales proshop..
…and here I am, a self-proclaimed gun nut, and I never even heard of 22 TCM. Hmmm, learn something new every day. That’s why I love this site. Thanks for the review. While I dig RIA, not sure I personally would jump into a proprietary ammo weapon. Looks like it’s got some hiccups to work out as well. But it sets off tannerite – cool!
Agreed. Although, I’d like to know if any hand-loader has figured out what propellent give the best velocity. If it could handle the M855 bullet, that would be a nice 5.7 competitor since SS190 is Verboten.
I don’t think anybody has matched the factory powder yet, and Armscor isn’t talking. The closest handloads I know of have been with H110, using Armscor bullets.
Factory loads already beat the 5.7×28 from the FiveseveN, being roughly equal velocities, with slightly heavier projectiles. They don’t load FMJ or TMJ ammo at the factory for worries that it could be AP.. Same reason ss190 is on the naughty list.
When I bother getting the dies and gear to reload it, I’m tempted to yank some 22WMR Gold Dots and FMJs to test, since I don’t own a 22 mag anymore.
The M855 bullet will not fit, it is far too long to feed appropriately.
There are actually only a couple of choices that will work properly (at least from my findings): Standard armscore Soft point $10/100 pc, Hornady 35 grain A-Max, and Hornady 40 grain. I am sure there are others, however, I have not found them yet.
Standard target handloads with the armscore pill are hitting 1750 fps out of a full sized TCM using 9 grains of Vhita Vuori N110 with plenty of room to grow. As always, this information only for documentation purposes, not to be used as instructional, do not try this at home, etc. There is very little load data online. I have seen someone say they are getting good results with lil’ gun. It is suggested that H110 be used.
The factory powder is only available to manufacturers and was designed for 22WMR loads.
I will note that I doubt the 5.7 would be able to load the M855 bullet either, based upon the bullet being too long.
Maybe load the bullets backward…
Valley….if you’re worried about being stuck in a proprietary ammo situation, instead of getting the mid size, pickup the original full size, which will come with the 9mm barrel, spring, and extractor. That was a really big motivator when I decided to take the plunge. I’ve never been much of a 1911 fan (not that I doubt such a tried and true design), so this was another motivating factor for me to see what millions swear by in a gun design. Love the double stack design, and have made the grip even better by swapping out the factory stuff for Hogue wraparounds with finger groves…back is open. I also picked up a Dawson Precision fiber optic front sight.
I have been running 9 mm in mine and it is fun to shoot! The brass and bullets are available. The reloading dies are a little high but available. If you are willing the reload the .22 TCM is affordable.
Lee die sets are now available for $75 at Ammo Supply Warehouse. Scroll to the bottom. https://www.ammosupplywarehouse.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?search=action&category=TCM0
.22 TCM – honestly wtf. Looks like someone saw 7.62×25 and thought “not obscure enough” and made a cartridge from scratch that does the same thing.
It is all about location. Is 7.62 Tokarev obscure? In the US sure, in eastern Europe and Asia not so much.
There’s plenty of 7.62 Tok guns up here north of the 49th. It’s an impressive little round, and just about the cheapest handgun food you can get short of rimfire.
The grips are Para grips with the logo ground off. I had a .22TCM when they first came out – VZ Grips is the only place I know of that had replacement grips that fit without tweaking the hole spacing. Also, finding grip screws is a nightmare. The original run of pistols used a slotted screw, whereas newer models used a hex-socket. The latter are much better.
Armscor is headed in the right direction, but there are some hurdles along the way.
I have since sold the pistol, due to the fact that I bought it right before the ammo shortage. I would like to own a .22TCM again in the future, but not until the kicks are ironed out, and the .22TCM rifle is released.
Also, I concur… the sights are garbage. Mine had a 2-dot rear with a blank front. It was the WORST pistol sight combo I had ever used.
.22TCM in and of itself is a design by Fred Craig and Armscor, and a fantastic caliber. It is a cut down .223 case with a .22 hornet bullet. Dies are available and Fred Craig used to have an AMAZING deal where he would reload your spent brass at a great price. While not widely accepted, I hope it eventually is, as a simple barrel swap converts these into 9x19mm pistols, and the magazines are even the same.
+100 for the Zombie kill.
I am a little confused. Under “The Good” It says “I was shooting 12 Gauge and .410 shells at seven yards with ease. ” Isn’t this a .22 TCM/9mm with barrel and spring change?
As targets
That should have read “I was hitting”. My wording was off.
And no, this model doesn’t come with the 9mm barrel swap. I don’t believe any of the new TCM pistols will be coming with that option. However, RIA barrels are pretty affordable, like, cheap enough to learn how to fit a barrel yourself. I’m considering doing this in 9mm and 38super, simply because it would be cheaper than buying two more guns.
WTF, 22LR isnt hard enough to find?
Fascinated by the idea of 22tcm, but i’d prefer to see it become a little more mainstream before I shelled out that much money for a souped up 22mag.
Yeah, I’ve wanted to play with a .22 TCM gun since I first heard about the caliber, but I think I’ll hold off until at least one other player besides Armscor jumps in. I like the concept, pretty much a modernized Tokarev round, with the bonus 9x19mm compatibility (with barrel swap) thrown in. Not to mention, you can make ’em yourself with existing off-the-shelf reloading components. Pretty cool round overall, but only two guns so far that will shoot it (and one is a sort-of pointless boltie)? Might as well buy a .327 Federal revolver while I’m at it… 🙂
There are a lot of rumors about somebody like Lonewolf making a Glock conversion barrel. The way they do offset conversions works well. (Except that annoying .003 inaccuracy with my sights…)
As for the 327 Fed Mag… I’m looking for an SP101 in it.. With moon clip cuts, it chambers and fires 327FM, 32HRM, 32HR, 32S&W, 32ACP…. And I can ALWAYS find one or more of those in stock. Plenty of places make brass as well.
Since they are the only ammo manufacturer (RI/Armscor) if you buy the pistol one might think they would make a thousand rounds option to buy available, so you wouldn’t have to scrounge ammo to break in the thing.
Ammo Supply Warehouse imports and sells it in bulk. They are very prompt shippers, and will even hold it for you, should you be hitting up desert shoots, and don’t want to haul your ammo across the country. Some of the best prices for it as well.
Ammo supply warehouse. 1000 rounds, $93.00, $16.00 shipping
The price you have is their price for bullets, they sell Brass at 1000 per $183.50. Their price for ammo 22 TCM 40 gr HP is 1000 for $367.01 gold box and $373 for 1000 white box. This price is as of 30 Aug 2014. They do sell the drill and press for making your own. I was planning an buying a full size but >37 cents per round plus freight would be what I pay for 308.
(Top photo of left side) How much better would this look without the logo and three names in a metallic color? Have it made out of the same material as the slide, ideally some kind of subtle bas relief image or text. Make it part of the object, not looking like it was spray-paint-stenciled on after the fast. My two cents worth. I’ll bill them.
The rollmark? It’s slightly recessed..
I like the new ones they do, just a little logo behind the serrations. Like Caspian, but the other side of the slide.
Proprietary ammo. I’ll pass.
well if you cut your 300 blackout cartriges too short, here is another use for the casings. Not sure where you can get 40 gr 22 bullets.
You can buy the bullets from Armscor, it’s the same thing they put in their 22WMR hollow points.
There are also several others that will work well for reloading, from 30-50 grains from what I have read. Hornady makes a Vmax that works very well, I’ve heard.
I think I will stick with my five-seven.
At 400$ more, I would hope so.
TCM? Turner Classic Movies? Ah yes, one of those stage guns that never runs out of ammo….
Have put a bunch of .22 TCM downrange at this point through several guns. Just moved to new Secret Hidden Bunker on 35 acres in rural Colorado. I note there’s a coyote problem on the property. Hmmmmm…I’m seeing a mission for the TCM…needs better sites,but I think it’d be a stone dog buster…
Michael B
It shreds buzzards pretty well, from the inside out.
I assume that buzzard means either vulture or buteo? For either case, unless you’ve got the right permit, you should not be publicly advertising that you’re killing them.
Shot was taken by a Game Warden with said license. The farmer who owns the land we rent was having issues with Black Vultures killing calves. He and the Warden came by to ask about the birds that had moved from the pasture, and settled on our chicken coop.
The blast also works pretty well as a “pyrotechnic harassment”, and the rest of the birds took off.
The rear sight doesn’t seem horrible since it is adjustable, but the front sight has to go. I need something that is really visible. Suggestions?
Armscor has a fiber optic front sight available, but you may have to call them, as I cannot find it on the website just now. Dawson precision also has different options.
I love the gun, so I am going to eventually spend the money to fix my gripes. Grips will be VZ, and the sights.. I may simply paint the blade, or get the fiber from Armscor.
And add 9mm and 38super barrels, because why not?
Reliability is a real issue with this tcm. I purchased the TCM MicroMag last year after having tested one at my LGS. It was a blast to shoot so I dropped $700 on the pistol. It came with the 9mm conversion barrel and spring. The pistol had feeding problems starting with the 1st mag. After about 250 rounds with multiple feeding issues, the pistol went back to Armscor (Pahrump, NV about 45 minutes outside Vegas). They found nothing wrong and sent it back. I fired another 150 rounds through it with the same feeding problem recurring about every 8 or 9th round. I took it back to the LGS where it was purchased. They put through 100 rounds and were having the same problem. They took apart the gun and found a laundry list of things wrong. Gun went back to Armscor again. This time they sent a new pistol back to me. New pistol fired 100 rounds flawless, then every 4th round (consistently) would fail to feed. This pistol went back to Armscor and stayed there. There are some serious issues with this round. The 9mm conversion fired flawless, but the tcm was nothing but problems. The only positive thing that came from this experience is that I learned Armscor has fantastic customer service. They were helpful the entire time. The replaced the pistol once. After the 3rd time of the pistol going back to the factory, they let me choose a replacement pistol. I learned my lesson with the proprietary round and choose a 1911 single stack .45. The new .45 has 500 rounds through it without a single malfunction. Stay away from the TCM until they can figure out how to correct the problems with either the design or the manufacturing.
I don’t know if I would blame the round, I mean, it does what it is supposed to. Explodey part goes off, ouchy bit goes ZOOOOOOM.
Out of curiosity, and if you don’t mind, what were the problems with the original gun? You said “feeding issues” and that confuses me, as it’s a bottleneck round going up a ramped barrel.
Are you sure it wasn’t a magazine issue? I assume you sent the mag back with the gun for testing. I assume you checked this, and I only ask because I went and looked at mine just now, and well.. there really is nowhere else for the round to go, unless blocked by an FTE, or the mag isn’t seated properly.
It wasn’t a mag issue. I had 2 factory mags that were sent back with the pistol. Same problem with either mag. 3 different mags at LGS were used, same problem. The round would catch on the bottom of the feed ramp of the barrel. It would leave deep indents on the soft tip of the bullet. The slide would not come all the way forward. The mag was always fully seated. Sometimes pushing the slide forward would force the round into battery, but most of the time I had to remove the mag, pull the slide back, eject the round, and start over. Don’t get me wrong, I loved shooting the TCM. The reliability of the pistol was just so far below what is expected of any firearm that I had to get rid of it. I’m sure eventually they will correct all the issues, and when they do I’ll probably go buy another one.
Ok, I gotcha..
I went and looked at mine again, and the ramp protrudes a bit when the slide is back, but mates up well when the gun is in battery. But when easing the slide forward on a new round, the bullet lines up a good millimeter above the bottom of the ramp. It doesn’t even have a problem cycling resized empties.
If you don’t mind me asking, which model 45 did you trade it out for?
http://us.armscor.com/products/tac-1911-ii-fs-45acp
Matt in Vegas, I too am having the same type problem. What I’m seeing is when you get to the last round in the magazine, it will not feed it. Seems like the gun thinks the clip is empty. I have two clips and it does it on both. I love the gun and several people have shot it and they are equally impressed. Just wish this didn’t happen.
StephenB
This problem is one that I explained in the article. On my pistol and mag, the problem was gone after 3 boxes. You could try trimming a follower shelf with a file, or adding putting a bit of vinyl tape on the follower.
Thanks for the info Sean. I’ll give it a try.
Hi everyone! Martin(president Armscor)
Just to let you know the Midsize will start coming with 9mm conversion starting July 1. I have heard everyone’s requests. By the end of the year 9mm conversions will be available for all TCM models.
Hey Martin! I contacted the tech support email about changing the front sight on the 22 TCM and got a prompt and useful response. It is really neat to see you track the public discussion of your products. Keep up the good work! Thanks from Missouri.
Martin, Everybody I dealt with for everything were top notch.
I’ll wait for the 9mm conversion, and add it to the full review. It’ll delay me a bit, but the future guns will come with it, I may as well include it in the full review.
Martin I hope you all get the bugs out this pistol I am in the process of buying one.
I would like to shoot until I get tired, I’m 71 so it may not take as long as any would think. I have a lot of yodel dogs around here and would love to make some money back selling hides. Well I’ve been pretty lucky with weapons hope this isn’t my Waterloo. Hope we don’t have contact each other because of the pistol.
Hi guys,
I just purchased my 22 TCM on July 2nd and bought 150 rounds for the range. My first 50 rounds performed flawlessly but on the next 100 rounds it seemed like almost every round failed to eject so I had to drop the magazine and manually eject the spent cartridge. I love the gun but can’t stand what it is doing at the moment especially for it to be brand new and over $600. Any advice would be appreciated.
Take it back and get rid of it. You can read about everything that I went through with that pistol and it’s just not worth it.
Man that stinks, this gun really is a blast to shoot! I’m placing my first call to armscor now we’ll see how it goes.
Well I sent my pistol back to them for repairs on July 7th and have yet to see it returned….bummed!
Great concept. So, as a double stack, can you put a .45acp slide on it and get a double stack .45acp mag in ? … or .38 super ? …. That would be a massive bonus.
Also, since the major diameter and OAL are larger than 5.7×28, is anyone going to chamber ream a p90 or AR57 (or the FN pistol)? Again, massive bonus for the cartridge.
.22LR is very vulnerable as an unreloadable rimfire in high demand: I’ll never buy another unless things get stable for a long period.
update from other article: “To convert the .22 TCM to 9mm, the process simply involves swapping out the barrels and recoil springs. Visually there was a slight difference between the two recoil springs; the 7-pound TCM spring was slightly shorter and of a thinner gauge. The recoil spring provided for the TCM is 7 pounds, and if you get confused as to which spring is which, trying both in the gun reveals a definite difference in resistance.”
JD,
.22 TCM to 9mm, you say just switch the spring and barrel? The directions that came with my gun say to switch the extractor (and that I should have a gunsmith do it) totally blew me away since I was hoping to swap to 9mm for break in on the pistol. If you can confirm your statement I would be very happy!
RJ in VABA sends…
Yep sure enough you need to switch the extractor and if you fail to get it in properly you’ll be sending it back to the factory to be adjusted because after every shot you’ll have to manually eject your casing.
I sent mine back to Warlords to John Glass for some work. One thing was the extractor could not be removed to replace it with the 9mm one. He said he would modify it so that would not be a problem and I could shoot either with the same extractor. I have shot both and I have not had a problem. Jon Glass is Craigs partner in Warlords I am told.
You tube has a good tutorial on changing out the extractors. I have taken the extractor out several times. I used a taped screw driver and taped pliers. Tape to keep from marring gun.
Trigger plate and trigger have to be removed, which was easy, and then pry extractor then turn it beyond 90 degrees and it comes right out. The tutorial was by an armscor smith.
You tube has a good tutorial on changing out the shell extractor.
I have the same feeding problem that has been mentioned. I have to hit the slide with my thumb to get it to finish going forward. Bummer. I am hoping that more rounds will smooth out the problem. First box of rounds went through without a problem. Next box was problems every round. I cleaned the gun and am still having same problem. Going out to the range Monday with 250 rounds. If this otherwise cool gun fails I will have to ship it back. I haven’t tried the 9mm. What’s the use. I bought it for the 22
I sent my gun back after only having it 3 days. It has been 6 weeks and they emailed me saying “Hello Mr. Pitts, this is Phillip with Armscor / Rock Island Armory.
My gunsmith has looked at your pistol and had determined that he needs to
replace the slide. We do not have the right slide in stock right now, but we will
get it replaced as soon as we can.” I then explained that I was tired of waiting especially when I couldn’t even get an ETA on the new slide and that others were allowed to choose another more reliable 1911 platform from them. He then sent this response “I just talked to the gunsmith and he will be replacing the entire gun for you. It will take some time, he has to pull one from the warehouse, tune it up and test fire it. It will be the same model, so we will be able to send the replacement straight to you. When it processes for shipping our system will email you the UPS tracking number so you will know it is on the way.
Phillip” it has been almost 2 months now and I still haven’t seen a pistol in the mail.
I am reluctant to send back this pistol. Kel-Tek, and Taurus had my guns back and repaired in 2 WEEKS!
I am looking at another 45 acp in the 1911 frame. I have ruled out RIA. Lesson learned.
I had a response from a RIA rep about the feed problems. He said to cycle some more round through it. I plan on doing that. They request 250 rounds for break in. I have only put 100 through it so far. Going tomorrow morning.
I have 1250 rounds of the .22tcp. Expected delivery of the rifle is this week. My local store is putting the rifle on order for me.
I am hearing through forums that the 9mm in this gun is not good. Has anyone out there have anything good to say about the tcm with the 9mm set up? Is there a separate slide that can be purchased for the 9mm barrel? That would be a good thing to have. I have the extractor, barrel, and spring. A slide made for the 9 would be excellent.
Check out Armscor Shop. hhttp://us.advancedtactical.com/
To Martin T.
Howdy,
How about offering a version or option of a 22 TCM/9mm with a manufacturer blocked to 15 rounds for those of us in Commierado and other limited magazine capacity states can get one.
Our local LGS’s won’t carry or order anything that is over our state’s 15 round limit, or you get a gun without a magazine (useless) since the limit laws went into effect on 7/1/13.
I did see the 10 round versions offered on a few online dealers (out of stock and no pictures available) but 10 rounds in a wide body frame is rediculious, might as well have been a single stack in this caliber combo to make it more appealing to those in the commie states.
I have severe Rheumatoid Arthritis, with no knuckles in my left hand and a very weak right hand.
I have very reliable Les Baer Comanche in 45 ACP that I can shoot just fine, but cannot rack the slide with either hand. My question is “with 40 grain bullets”, has anyone done ballistic tests on this 22 RIA to see if it would penetrate enough to make this a viable personal defense round.
Also, I have 30+ years of living with RA, and I know most people do not have clue what they’re talking about when they say the slide is easy to retract, “any one” could do it.
I have a Boberg XR9-L that I thought would be the answer, and it is close, but I just can’t retract the slide all the way.
I have hopes that this, the 22 RIA, might be the gun I’m looking for, But ballistic gel testing would be helpful, if not conclusive.
Has any thing been done in the way of longer(heavier) bullets for defensive work?
Deacon Pat aka Ron Mooney
I just handled the next model up yesterday at my LGS, and I think that’s the one to buy. The price there was $675, but it came with the VZ grips, fiber optic front sight, and 9mm barrel kit. Also has a Picatinny rail built in. It still uses inexpensive and widely available MecGar Para mags. This thing is a steal!
kicking self in butt right now. I wanted that setup….they didn’t have it wear I went
Just ran mine at the range. Got the one that comes with the conversion kit. TCM ran flawlessy. And I mean bad to the flawlessly. VERY ACCURATE AT 15 yds. HOWEVER my 9mm barrel conversion did not. The first round does not want to chamber into the breach and is getting stuck up on the feed ramp. Will be calling them shortly. LOVE THIS GUN FAR MORE THAN 5.7. This is the frame a round like this should be on…..and the flames the flames I tell you. Nice write up Sean.
John, the same thing happened to me. Were you able to resolve the issue?
In my pistol, the 22 TCM feed ramp extends from the barrel, but the 9mm uses the feed ramp that is built into the frame of the gun. The 9mm tends to get stuck when I release the slide.
The 22 TCM worked flawlessly. I love this caliber! I wish it was more popular.
Hi Jon, It is going to be a hard sell on getting more popular when Craig owns all the rights to the damn thing. Dies are very expensive. What has to happen is someone like CZ coming out with the rifle but Craig has it patten rights so they can not build one.I do not have much faith in Armscor’s rifle. I don’t think it has the coming power to pull the case. The cam comes in too late in the bolt lift to have much power. It was made to shoot rimfire ammo and made in to centerfire according to and article I read. No loading data also hurts. It is like here is the gun, good luck. Time will tell. I should have sent it to John Glass to repair.
Reguards Bob
AWESOME PISTOL, a poor’s man 5/7… and being able to shoot 9mm luger a huge plus! I am a convert!!!!!
I have a tcm pistol that has given me feed problems and the finish is really crappy. I send it back and is a little better. I have now bought a 22 tcm rifle. I have problems extracting the fired cases. I talked to Jphn Glass from Warlords a partner to Craig. He suggested I polish the chamber and coat the brass with one shot case lube.That helped some. My problem is still in the chamber. Once a case is fired in the rifle you should be able to rechamber the fired case but you can’t unless you index the case to the original firing position which suggests that the chamber is egg shaped. I am now in Florida and I can’t reload for this gun until I get home in Apr. I would like to try some .223 brass in this rifle and see if it is bad brass or the chamber is really not round. The gun dealer I bought it from will not take it back so I am stuck with it for now. Has anyone else have problems with this rifle?
Robert,
You can check the general dimensions of the chamber using your fired brass, and a set of calipers. With this kind of issue, you should send it to Pahrump and let the guys there take a peek at it. You can also ask Martin about it on Facebook, he is very active in the customer service part of his company, and responds to pretty much everything. Just post it on the Armscor/Rock island Armory page…. It really is the man himself responding. Shocking, huh?
Thanks ,
I have been going thru a man named John Glass. He says he is Craigs partner in Warlords a company they have. I sent him my TCM 1911 that I was having trouble with. He did some work on it and sent it buck to me. He charged Armscor the bill for working on it. I am vacationing in Florida where I bought the rifle. All my tools are back in Wisconsin along with my measuring instruments. I will be returning to Wi. at the end of March and will be able to do more then. John Glass told me I could send it to him and he would see what he could do with it. I will drop Martin a line and see what happens. It kind of bothers me that Armscor seen to be shipping guns without test firing them. This is 2 in a row for me.The finish on the 1911 is crappy and should have been spotted before it was shipped. If they would have fired this rifle they would surely have seen that it has chamber issues.
Thanks for your reply Bob George [email protected]
A little update on this..
I meant to get the 9mm barrel, more ammo, and finish the review properly. But rent comes before toys, and things came up. I no longer have the gun I had for this article, so I cannot complete the review. (Sometimes, things work out this way when you don’t get T&E guns like the big gun rags. :P)
However, in a few weeks I will have some more 22TCM fun to write about.
And Martin, since I know you come around and read everything… How about a TCM semi auto carbine? Or even a series of semiauto carbines with wood furniture… use pistol mags, similar to the old Marlin Camp Carbines..
The cartridge looks a lot like the 22 Reed Express , it was made for a barrel swap in a CZ-52 and brass was necked down 7.62X25 Tokarev to 22cal. with the CZ-52 it was just a barrel swap , even the standard spring was recommended or the original one for the 7.62X25 cartridge , for some reason the fellow quit making the barrels for the CZ-52 pistol but does for the Thompson Center pistol last I looked , he still sells brass but I would not buy it for this new pistol that shoots the 22 TCM cartridge because there may be a difference in the shoulder angle and where it is located and I am saying it may be 2 different cartridges I am speaking of , and don’t want to be liable for someone being injured ! They do look similar but that is not good enough to say they are the same ! I have heard of the 22 TCM online and a google search for 22 Reed Express should give you some information about the conversion for the CZ-52 pistol and maybe a diagram of the cartridge !
I just bought a new magazine today called Rifle Shooter. They had a article about the 22 TCM rifle.
This article was written by a man named Layne Simpson. I had to laugh at what he had to say about this rifle. He described how he had some miss fires and that cases were often a little hard to extract from the chamber. He chose his words so careful as to make this rifle a great rifle with a few problems. I would not believe anything this author had to say about anything related to guns. Why can’t they tell the truth and tell the purchasers of their magazine that this rifle has problems? I am sure mine was never test fired or they would not have let it out to be sold. The chamber is egg shaped and you can not get the shell out of the chamber unless you lube them first. Then there is the miss fire problems with factory ammo. He says something about that but he blames them on the wrong primers. This is factory ammo! The bolt is sloppy in the uncocked position and the end of the bolt is sloppy in the cocked position. I will never buy another Rifle Shooter Magazine. If your not going to tell the reader the truth then don’t tell us anything at all. I have 3 armscor products. 2 1911’s and this rifle and I will not have another until they get their product control in order!
I sent my rifle back to the factory on Apr.2nd for repairs to the chamber so I can shoot the damn thing. I have not heard a word from them until now when I e mailed Phil about the whereabouts of my rifle. He wrote that the rifle is in line for one of their gunsmith to repair and return to me. It has been a month now and still no gun. I wrote that I bought the rifle for me to use and not sit in their factory because they could not get this done on the first try. Buyers beware of Armscor. If I have to wait in line they must have screwed up many more. I have 3 and I will not have another. Their quality control control is shitty to say the least. I will keep you posted on this rifle when I get it back when ever that will be.
I just got a message from Armscor after this post. It says (was I taken care of?) So I wrote a complaint to them again that I am not happy and I would rather have my money back than the rifle. Fat chance that will happen but maybe something will happen to put a fire under them and to quality check their products closer before shipping. I will keep you posted.
OK so I finally got a rifle back from Rock Island. The one I sent in for repair was 0000185. I was sent a new rifle 0015XX. They must have decided not to fix the old one and much easier to send me a new one. I have a scope mounted and ready to shoot it this afternoon. It is a bit cool and windy here in Hudson Wi. but I have to know if this rifle will extract shells. I cleaned the barrel and it was filthy. Maybe they actually shot this rifle to make sure it would work. It looks good and the finish is nice. Now if it will shoot, It will make me happy. Go 22 TCM! I will post what happens later.
Bob
Well I shot 32 round at 50 yds. today with the new TCM rifle Armscor sent to replace the bummer that I sent back. First impression is favorable. I had one sticky shell that took a minute to extract but other than this one shell all went smooth. Police were using the 100 yd. range so I could not use it and had to settle for 50 yds. instead. It grouped pretty well for the crappy rest I had to use on the pistol range and not to mention the windy condition we had.I look forward to doing some reloading and see what this rifle can do. Keep you posted at a later date. I want to thank Armscor for replacing this rifle with a new one.
Bob
9mm barrel is garbage. Nearly every round hung up and would rarely go to battery. Sent to Pahrump. God knows when I’ll see it again.
I BOUGHT THE The TCM Rifle and The TCM pistol today…My pistol came with a 9 mm barrel and spring, and are easy to interchange…It takes about 5 minutes if you are talking with people which I was….The TCM pistol I love it…I ran 100 rounds through it with only one mid fire…I had to adjust the sights…But I have already ordered grips and a bright front sight…The gun at 25 yards did extremely well for fast shooting…I shot a 5 inch group just messing around…Then I pulled my target to 15 yards and closed to groups down to 2 and 3 inches shooting 5 round burst…Yet taking my time and getting my stance…The rifle is another story. ..I put a Nikon 3x9x50 and after sightings in at 100 yards and 2 inches high it was dead on the money…The rifle has a bull barrel, and a very nice finish for the price ….I bought both guns brand new for 1000 dollars and I would so it again tomorrow. …The pistol functions well…My feller gauge showed that the trigger broke at 3 lbs consistently. …It has some kinks to work out but getting 3 gun for the price of 2 for under a grand is a good deal…The pistol will be a success and it out performs the FN which I also have…It out shot it four time in one day shooting 5 round burst…The only critical points about it were the grips and front sight but for 100 dollars bother problems are solved and you have one hell of a pistol….The rifle is a no brainer…You can shoot one in groups at 100 yards all day long as long as it is not wemdy…I have not shot it on a windy day yet but I feel like it will have substantial wind drift if the wind is over 15 mph…
I love my Rock Island Armory 45 acp i had for almost 10 years now. so on my birthday i got me a rock island armory 22tcm with a 9mm I figured two calabers in one gun kool got home set up my range fired once gun jammed 9mm saw that the next round had gotten stuck on bottom edge of the barrel so tried again same thing happened did this for about 25 rounds so i went back to my friends at my favorite gun shop and the gun smith looked at and said easy fix 9mm barrel wasn’t ramped from factory gun smith fixed it so I tried again so i set up my range again and it feed fin but wasn’t extracting the shells every time so i put the 22tcm barrel in and tried again wasn’t extracting them every time ether so i had a new issue went back to gun smith he has ordered a new extractor and that where I am now waiting on a gift i got myself and can’t enjoy it first gun i ever bought that had issues i still love rock island armory but im probably going to stick to 1911 45acp’s
I don’t suppose you went back to RIA and talked to Ivan or Ty? Didn’t think so.
My .22TCM had a problem, sent it back on RIAs dime, got a new gun, works great.
End of story.
Based in Philadelphia, and founded in January 2009, Nyoo – TV
is the flagship product of AKG Entertainment Private Limited.
Director of comedies Bruce Almighty and Ace Ventura.
This will save you from llast minute choices that don’t end
up being suitable.
I fired my Rock Island 1911 TCM22 for the second time yesterday. I loaded the first magazine and fired all 17 rounds, but when It ejected the last round the slide appeared to be stuck. I raked it and a piece of plastic fell out I racked it again and the firing pin, spring all fell out. Needless to say my shooting that day was over. I have shipped the gun back to Davidson’s guns and my salesman said the plastic piece that fell out was probably the firing pin retainer. It really freaked me out as I carry and if this had happened in a life threatening situation I could have been killed.
Phillip,
I do not believe you have a RIA .22TCM. There is no plastic retainer for the firing pin. Asking a salesman for
gun advice tells me you are not gun savvy. Everybody who owns RIA weapons knows to call or email
RIA and they will send you a prepaid shipping label. I had a firing pin problem, (Weak, off center strike)
I was shipped a new DIFFERENT .22TCM!
I know, RIA, and their customer service. I have 10 different RIA 1911s and none of them have any plastic in them.
After Reading all of these comments made by trolls, I do not need to red any more blogs by TTG. I see nothing
but hate and many comments by people who obviously either have no RIA firearms, or did not pay attention to the
brochures that come with RIA weapons. I own ten different RIA weapons and their Customer Service is
Outstanding. I had an RIA .22TCM with a Problem with light off center strikes on both .22TCM and 9MM,
and received a brand new pistol. Ivan, Ty and the gunsmiths are great. Martin would kick ass if it was not so.
So, I see no need of clicking on the truth? about guns anymore.
I got this full sized 22 TCM/9 mm after shooting rented 1911’s in 9 mm with better than expected accuracy. Wanted a double stack and wasn’t paying for what was otherwise out there and, knowing of Rock Island and their offerings I made my choice. One rental was actually for sale used for $350 with ugly plain wood grips and a single stack mag. It shot well, but I knew I wanted a double stack and the rest is history. As per the gist of most of these comments, I too had problems , but just with the 22 ejection. I hate sending a gun back and am mildly willing to overlook ejection problems on the 22 to have an accurate 9 mm double stack. If RIA gets this back for tweaking for the 22 TCM and they get it right I’ll be more than happy. For now I’ll enjoy what I can do with it in 9 mm. Yes, quality control could be better and that could be because production is almost other side of the world. P.S. PAINT those sights! It’s cheaper than changing them; I’ve been doing it on MANY firearms with great results. Use nail polish or automotive paint, and, if wanting a “color” to it, use white as a base to make it brighter.
this is awesome i want one
I love my22TCM. Hated the sights. I shipped slide to have sights replaced. UPS lost it, So far it”s been impossible to replace. ARMSCOR has been no help at all. HELP!!!!
My “swap barrel” 9 mm / 22 tcm handles 9 mm no problem. The 22 tcm rounds often FTE, and the action is stuck closed most of those times, so the problem is stuck cases, not a problem with the extractor. As for the front sights- clean with alcohol or acetone and PAINT them white! It’s simple and effective.
Comments are closed.