Dear Commissioners,
If a picture is worth a thousand words….. see attached.
DSH Firearms is opposed to the Board of County Commissioners of Leon County’s restriction of private sales, 3-5 day waiting period and any other anti-2nd amendment effort to restrict firearm ownership in Leon County. Gun Shops have an inordinate amount of paperwork, Federal and State requirements, that already exist that restrict gun ownership in this country . . .
The burden of additional background checks for guns that already belong to private citizens is not only against our beliefs, but it also places an additional amount of employee time, paperwork and liability on our employees and stores. We are unable and unwilling to cooperate in conducting these background checks.
As one of the highest volume dealers in Tallahassee, we have a large and fiercely loyal customer base, many of whom would support a recall effort for any Commissioner who voted to infringe on their 2nd Amendment rights.
Dawn Hoffman
DSH Firearms
2613 Centerville Road
Tallahassee, Florida 32308
[h/t Gator in Tallahassee]
Compelling note! Someone knows how to talk to people. Kudos.
I very much appreciate how “See what happened in Colorado? You could be next!” is an effective tactic for engaging the opposition these days.
It’s particularly delicious because it’s the legal political equivalent of “That’s an awful nice business you got there, be a shame if anything happened to it.”
Throwing out that “R(ecall)” word. I like it.
Nevermind that this is illegal under Florida state law which pre-empts any/all local gun regulations. I really think its time the pro gun forces in FL Man up and add the “teeth” they keep threatening these anti gun localities and counties with. Should be a fine of $100,000.00/Day for any County or Town with firearms laws on the books that do not mirror state law.
Without those frequently threatened “Teeth” Florida is just 1 bad election away from having Miami become the New York of the South in regards to guns.
We live and Im proud to say in a D rated state by the antis.
Something very wrong is going on here.
The City of West Palm Beach tried to do some crap about carrying in public buildings (except the usual places already covered) and it got the boot due to the pre-emption laws.
The folks up there have got to get to who ever is responsible in the local County govt to foot any penalties(monetary) as the preemption laws state they should. When and not if they will be taken to court.
Its a 100% no go here and they should or do know better and are just seeing how far they think they can get.
“Should be a fine of $100,000.00/Day for any County or Town with firearms laws on the books that do not mirror state law.”
How about a day in the slam for every day the illegal law is on the books for any Commissioner that voted for it? Accountability and the consequences of stupid should hurt.
Actually, they are playing games with the 1998 Florida Constitutional Amendment that lets them do so on gun shows on public property. However, it has been stretched to beyond that by a couple of counties in Florida and hasn’t been challenged in court, yet. Jon Gutmacher talks about it here:
http://orlandocriminallawyer.blogspot.com/2012/02/waiting-period-for-firearm-sales-my.html
We have to pound this ordinance back even if it means recalling some commissioners. Fortunately, we do have recall in FL for municipal and chartered county officials.
Playing the “ReCall Card”?
The best defense against a bully is a punch right to the snout. Bravo.
I already sent a blanket email to several of these commissioners and the ones who replied are all against the idea anyway. Bryan Desloge and Nick Maddox both said they would not support such an issue if it ever was taken seriously. They told me they only briefly discussed it but the info about this discussion became public knowledge, people are obviously upset, and they are NOT pursuing the issue any further as far as I can tell.
They must know they cant do this. Im sure they those 2 don’t want to be the ones who will pay the $$$$.
It will be tossed or nothing will come of it. I believe its just some stupid minority up there mouthing off and wishful thinking on their parts.
It cant and wont happen.
A punk ass lawyer name Blondeau drafted the ordinance based on one in south Florida. Commissioner at Large Mary Ann Lindley is championing it along with the air head Christine Dozier. Remember that Mayor John Marks is a MAIGgot. So is county commissioner Bill Proctor.
The FFLs should threaten to leave the state. Look how well it worked for Magpul.
Ralph
No reason to leave here.
No county or local govt can do anything that’s not already being done on the state level.
Our preemption laws do work. They aren’t just there for the heck of it,
They were sort of over looked for 20ish years or so.
But due to some shenanigans last year by the City of St Petersburg.
The state went nuts on them.
The state made the local govt officials personally liable if taken to court for any and all costs.
The locals backed off.
The laws now do have teeth.
I wasn’t poking the FFLs. I was poking Magpul for lying to us.
Ooh got yah.
Remember, they are playing the Constitutional Amendment angle on this thing.
Just local pols looking for some free press. They know that state pre-emption makes anything they say or do moot.
See what Jay posted above – the press may be free, but the consequences are damned expensive.
The guys at DSH are top-notch. Great place to get reloading gear and components.
It is also a great place to get NFA items etc.
That’s where my father in law goes for his.
Want that Unimog
They have 2.
Dawn and Tom at DSH are top-notch. Other dealers in town have told the county to pound sand as well, including the owner of one using some of his advertising time to tell them as much.
However, I wish folks would get this preemption thing in FL right. Florida Statute 790.33, the preemption statute that advises local governments that firearms regulation is the state is ” . . . occupying the whole field of firearms regulation . . .” begins with the words “Except as expressly provided by the State Constitution or general law . . .” The Florida Constitution, Article VIII, Section 5, Local Option, paragraph (b) says: “Each county shall have the authority to require a criminal history records check and a 3 to 5-day waiting period, excluding weekends and legal holidays, in connection with the sale of any firearm occurring within such county. For purposes of this subsection, the term “sale” means the transfer of money or other valuable consideration for any firearm when any part of the transaction is conducted on property to which the public has the right of access. Holders of a concealed weapons permit as prescribed by general law shall not be subject to the provisions of this subsection when purchasing a firearm.”
This is what the stupid local COUNTY commissioner has proposed. It is NOT preempted by state law, but is, in fact, allowed by the state law AND the FL Constitution. Will it get anywhere? Highly doubtful but is typical of some members of the commission and is supported editorially by our local newspaper.
Ray Santos of Ray’s Gun Vault had a damn good advertisement on the radio this morning slamming the ordinance.
I’ve bought several guns and mags from Ray, and he’s the first place I go when looking for my next. Stand up guy.
An attorney linked to above points out that a store is, in fact. private property and the public does not have a “right to access.” Both the store owner and the property owner have the right to deny public access to the property.
You apparently missed the part where Jon Gutmacher (the attorney) also stated that it is none the less being complied with by the stores in the Tampa areas because they don’t want to go to court. Leon County is not Hillsborough nor Pinellas County and is 4 to 5 hours away. The point I was making is that this is what some of the local banners are trying to pull and is why we are stopping it now rather than battle it in court.
If you read the letter from the ATF which Gutmacher responded to, the ATF opined that stores open to the public were open access and the 5 day waiting period could be applied to long guns.
As I have understood the preemption laws from day one being here back in 1989.
The sale between private individuals isn’t covered by that statue.
Personal private property….screw the govt!!!!
Guns bought new in a store or show setting is if FFL is involved.
No CWP permit but say a drivers license for ID and proof of residency has always been a 3-5 day wait.
1 week in reality.
If you have a CWP take it with you.
Then back in 1994? With the background check and the Federal form no CWP still 3-5 days.
With CWP federal form and instant check, still take it with you.
Maybe Im still all wet or someone elses meaning of the statue,
Sales between individuals is private PERIOD.
That is what they the Local Govts want changed.
They want all sales to go through an FFL.
That’s not going to happen till and or if the Feds get involved,
They got blown out of the water last April and when and if its brought up again in congress.
Until they stop trying to make criminals out of us its still not going to happen.
If I want to give my brother my gun dammit Im going to do it.
Again, they are playing on the 1998 Constitutional amendment and running behind a vague interpretation of the wording.
Fla. Const. Art VIII, section 5(b), allows a county to pass an ordinance requiring a criminal history records check and waiting period between 3-5 days on any “sale” of any firearm within such county – only where “any part of the transaction is conducted on property to which the public has the right of access.”
This is the angle a few counties have played to include gun stores. They haven’t pressed it, but Jon Gutmacher thinks they would win, but they don’t want to risk their ffl.
http://orlandocriminallawyer.blogspot.com/2012/02/waiting-period-for-firearm-sales-my.html
What is strange is that the wording on the ballot read “gun shows on public property” but once it passed it was drafted to that vague piece above.
Do unlicensed sellers want to sell firearms to criminals and deranged people? Terrorists, gang members, Mexican cartel members and other assorted criminals have used gunshows to acquire large numbers of weapons. Is this want you want? The proposed ordinance only applies to unlicensed sellers in public places. A background check of a gun purchaser is good common sense. Don’t be the boys who cried wolf on this ordinance. No one is suggesting taking away anybodys guns.
B.S. Say hello to Bloomer. I have given examples of how this exact worded ordinance has been misapplied in the Tampa area. In fact, the ordinance and letters about it don’t even mention “gun shows.” They are vague intentionally to exploit the letter from the ATF to which Jon Gutmacher responded. Furthermore, there are already laws against selling to or selling by a prohibited person. Want a solution, open up the NICS to the public. You get a proceed or don’t proceed and a number just like an ffl and pay the FDLE $5.
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