“For example, while I support concealed carry by law-abiding citizens and know that armed citizens have foiled multiple attempted shootings, I view the presence of more concealed carriers as at best a potential mitigating factor. Even the fortunate presence of armed citizens doesn’t by any means guarantee a positive outcome. People can freeze. People can miss. A gunman can take down the armed citizen first.
“The bottom line is that our nation is generating an excess of broken, damaged people, and at this point in American history, all too many members of that community are drawn to a specific, horrific way of inflicting pain on their neighbors and sometimes even their friends.” – David French in National Review, We Don’t Know How to Stop Mass Shootings
Possibly, this new generation has lost it’s way.
Helicopter parents, participation ribbons, complete lack of discipline in upbringing, you can be a boy, girl, whatever you feel like, the list goes on.
We have raised a generation of soft snowflakes and when things don’t go their way, or their feelings are hurt, they can’t cope.
My father and grandfather wouldn’t know what to make of this new generation. Sad.
We have also raised a generation that is ignorant of God. As the Casey decision essentially stated, each persons “truth” is true. There is no objective truth that binds modern man or our culture. Hence all the problems with gender and such. No one can tell anyone anything that negates their version of truth. Thus we have a generation of Godless pagans that can’t find happiness in this world. Ignorant of God they bottom out and believe life has no meaning so why not attack random people. The point is that this going to get worse before it gets better. Guns don’t shoot themselves. Moral upbringing in a culture built on God is what’s needed. Your grandparents once lived in that culture.
I was raised with no god, and I turned out fine so that does not mean anything.
Sorry, but it means everything….
Yep, people got no idea how important God is in life.
Sorry Defenders. I am also an atheist, but your anecdotal evidence does not invalidate the rule. Although I don’t follow the Christian faith, I share one of their most important tenets, the Golden Rule which has kept me out of trouble.
Unfortunately, atheists (as a group) have no such guiding philosophy and consequently have a far, far higher rate of deviant behaviors. Christians (as a group) are certainly not perfect, but they follow guidance that makes them much more likely to be pointed in a positive direction. It is a painful truth and although I would never accept imposing Christianity as a means to reduce psychopathic behavior in a population, I understand why people point to it as providing positive benefits.
Yep. Life without Christ…
Western society is born out of Judeo-Christian values.
“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” -John Adams
“Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.”
Romans 8:7 KJV
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”
1 Corinthians 2:14 KJV
(Means if you’re an atheist, we don’t expect you to “get it”)
Unfortunately this is the case. Interestingly many of my best freinds are atheists. One says I just keep bad company 🙂
I love my friends who don’t know God. There are many atheists who are in fact “moral” people. There are also many Christians who are immoral people. Vice versa is also true.
However, the further we get from God the more relativistic morals become, and with that logic at some point “murder” ceases to unjustifiable in the mind of the perpetrators.
Just watch Ben Steins “No Intelligence Allowed” and you’ll get the picture.
I truely hope that all my fellow Americans come to Christ. But also understand that many of my atheist friends cannot come to a conclusion for themselves in an intellectually honest manner. I have to respect that they cannot force faith.
However, looking at End Times fulfilled prophecy – the rapture is soon and there are no second chances. Please Accept Jesus Today.
Yeah, the rapture is soon, as soon as it was when jesus promised the disciples they would not know death before his return. These are children’s stories, guys!
You are making a generalization with too few examples, ONE(1) YOU! Consider yourself an exception that in now way supports the idea that “everyone” will turn out like you. Since you are one and only one example the best thing you could have done is to present yourself as an exception and NOT as the rule.
The abuses and intolerance of the Church created an entire generation that wasn’t going to listen to their hypocrisy. Many people are still spiritual and believe in God, but have no faith in organized religion.
Unfortunately there is much truth to your posted statement. Perhaps not all churches.
are as you describe here. But some have a nasty tendency of being self righteous, judgmental, sectarian, and legalistic! Romans 16:17 tells us to “mark, avoid, and have nothing to do with them.” Read on:
Ashland Daily Tidings: Tuesday, March 9th, 2010/Letters To The Editor
Putting church abuse into perspective
The Monday, March 1 Oregonian article via the Ashland Daily Tidings for same date (“Deceased priest who abused boys casts a shadow on the Northwest”) was very disturbing indeed! As a Christian, I must be direct, forward and morally/intellectually honest: Our churches have both the best and worst of people. Of course too does other segments of society as well. But let’s talk about churches and organized religion.
Though I myself was never sexually abused as these boys described in article, I’m certainly aware such does indeed happen in our churches. And I’m also certain some churches are worse than others.
Example: Prior to relocating to Ashland from Klamath Falls in 1986, I spent one year in a Church of Christ (non-instrumental) in Klamath Falls from 1982-83. Though there were some things I agreed with, there were other teachings I sharply disagreed and dissented with, including their sectarian/legalistic, dogmatic attitude of, “We are the only church and everyone else but us is wrong!”
After leaving that congregation I was the target of judgmental gossip and slander! And get this: This judgmental jerk within the congregation told me it “would be damnable if I left the church,” which I eventually did anyway.
Later, this same jerk was arrested for sexual abuse of a girl under 12 years of age! Yes, he was a predatory pedophile, a real creep! This is just one example of sexual abuse in our churches that, more often that not, remains covered up, hidden and suppressed. And that is downright criminal!
Another thing I find disturbing is the trend in our churches today of taking 1 Corinthians Chapter 7 out of context and using it against Christian singles. The dogmatic parroted, “It’s better to remain single than marry,” as preferred by the Apostle Paul, is an oppressive doctrine indeed! Most people who parrot this are religious elitists who are married anyway and have a significant other in their lives.
Though I have never read the book “Churches That Abuse,” by Ronald Enroth in 1992, it remains posted online via Google for reading. Yes, I have expressed my sentiments here. And furthermore I rightly feel that moral and intellectual honesty sees farther than does political and religious correctness.
So what is the answer to this? I feel a place to start is with this Bible passage from 1 Peter 4:17: “For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God.”
James A. Farmer, Ashland
Now a resident of Merrill, Oregon (Klamath County)
More people have died “In the name of god” than can possibly be counted.
Evil people misuse “god” all the time to commit atrocity. The fact is, good people are good with or without god.
Terrible example.
Without God, we are lost. Without God, how could ministers like Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland afford their homes and airplanes. Jesus said that the more you believe, the more you will be rewarded. So remember, send in your tithings. Minister Hinn needs a new Mercedes, and you people need a chance at salvation.
Praise God!!!
Right it’s a terrible example. Except for the fact that our Judeo-Christian heritage gave us English common law, the university system, and the foundations of our nation. All the scandals, wars, and failings that modern society attacks the church with are the result of men putting themselves first in the scheme of things. Finally your completely wrong on the numbers. 50 times the people were killed by atheistic communists in the last century than in all of the wars of religion. It doesn’t make church scandals any less evil, but throwing the baby out with the bathwater is the height of folly.
I’m pretty sure far more people have been killed in the name of Atheism and Paganism than in the name of God. Sorry for the messy format, charts don’t paste well.
Table 1: The 20th Century Collectivist Death Toll
Collectivist Regime Religion Millions Murdered Period
Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR] Atheist 61.911 1917-1987
Chinese Communists [PRC] Atheist 35.236 1949-1987
German (National) Socialists [Nazis] Pagan 20.946 1933-1945
China (Mao Soviets) Atheist 3.466 1923-1949
Cambodian Communists Atheist 2.035 1975-1979
Vietnamese Communists Atheist 1.670 1945-1987
Polish Communists Atheist 1.585 1945-1948
Yugoslavian Socialists Atheist 1.072 1944-1987
North Korean Communists Atheist 1.663 1948-1987
Grand Total 129.6 70 Years
Notes
A. Figures do not include war dead.
B. Figures used are midpoint between high and low estimates
If death is the ultimate evil and life the ultimate good, then indeed your assertion is correct. I would posit it’s not, that for certain things it’s better to die then live with, ie Nazis or the Aztecs or the Carthaginians.
True, many atrocities have been committed by people who embraced the name of Christ but despised his message. But in contrast, atheism and Darwinism is the foundation of communism, so at this point I have to believe that the atheists have outdone the pseudo-Christians by now.
Paganism, eh? What a silly silly proposition. Christianity is a pagan religion, as is its predecessor Judaism, as demonstrated by Moses’ version of the first commandment. Rome was officially Christian beginning in 323 A.D., but that did not stop them from engaging in wars of conquest for the next four hundred years, or the ownership of slaves. Nor did Christianity keep Europeans from reconsidering the morality of black slavery until the 19th Century; at the time, slavery was common in all societies. And slavery persists to this day in north Africa and in Asia (to say nothing of worldwide sex slavery). “Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful,” Seneca mused.
You are confusing God with money. Millions have been sacrificed for resources, financial gain, and control. God may have been one of the red herrings created by the powers engineering these mass sacrifices.
Anybody check the numbers during the Crusades? Something like half the population of the planet?
Estimated between 1 million and 3 million deaths over several hundred years. At the time of the first Crusade world population is estimated at 320 million. You are way off.
To “The Gov.” — I noticed you included Darwinism in your denigration of groups unassociated with the belief in a God (or Gods). I believe you are confusing a demonstrable series of factual observations concerning species evolution with a non-belief in religion.
One is supported by Facts and discoverable evidence (Evolution), while the other is rooted in faith and belief (Religion) which result from mental conditioning and dogmatic propaganda unrelieved by factual evidence.
It is no wonder more and more persons are aligning with a declared state of godlessness. I think that BOTH these belief systems are “non-starters”, and that the only rational position is that of an AGNOSTIC—where the person IS NOT SURE. There is reliable evidence of species evolution and extinction throughout geologic time. The physical evidence alone is persuasive—to DENY such evidence is to call into question all our current knowledge of physics, chemistry, mechanics, electronics, mathematics and astronomy (to name a few disciplines).
To blindly follow the teachings of a faith backed system propounded by followers of a book that has been revised beyond its original content does not appear to be a rational nor ideal methodology. It all comes down to what you consider: Faith and unquestioning acceptance of an unprovable thesis (God), or whether you examine the evidence presented and form your own independent conclusion.
I remain UNCONVINCED in the existence of ANY God—there is no factual, verifiable proof, just belief.
A person doesn’t need a god to know the difference between right and wrong. Your comment is wholly asinine. Religion is a Santa Claus for grown ups and a crutch for the weak minded.
If you need a helping hand, look at the end of your arm
Who determines what is right and wrong? You sound like a typical leftist. Some people think it’s right to abuse children or to own slaves. Explain to me why they are wrong? Without truth explain to me why gun grabbers are wrong. According to the Casey decision their truth is true. And your truth is true and my truth is true. How do we determine truth if everything is true?
‘Without God and his laws there is simply the law of the jungle. Might makes right. Funny how atheists forget that everything we know about what is right and wrong comes from the Bible. Ever hear of the 10 commandments? Ever hear about natural law? Let me guess, you were educated in a government school.
Everything I know about right and wrong comes from the Constitution.
Gun owners are getting blamed for the break down of family life, from the high divorce rate, the lack of affordable education for young people. the lack of affordable mental health care and the lack of well paying jobs. We also have 130 more million people than we did in 1950 when there were actually guns in 2 out of 3 homes as opposed to only 1 out of 3 today yet there is more crime today and more horrific forms of crime by far. Mass murders did occur back in the 50’s and 60’s but they were very rare. I even remember a few of them but they were few and far between.
Yes its far easier to just blame the gun owner and seek the so called quick fix and simple solution to complex societal problems. which does not cost the government any money. They actually make money on all the scrap steel from the guns that will be confiscated with no compensation. I dare say that even if they confiscate most of the weapons the nut cases will still be a problem they will just switch to using bombs, running people down in crowds, poison gas and even poisoning water and food supplies. Remember the Tylenol scare of the 1980’s they never caught the guy.
Timothy McVeigh used a simple fertilizer bomb and a rented truck and killed more people than any of the current mass murders. The News Media tried to say the Los Angles shootings were the biggest mass murder when it was not true.
My question is how is it legal to confiscate private property and not pay for it. Some of these magazine confiscation bans gave nothing back in compensation to the owners.
I hate to say it but time is running out for us gun owners, as we are the scapegoats especially when the news media shows grieving mothers screaming to ban all the guns.
I think atheists can grow up to be fine people just like anyone else that adopts the same virtues as people that believe in God. Religions, although not perfect by any means, offer a structure that is badly needed. Many random people just can’t generally figure out how to be good people to themselves or others.
FYI: News flash.
NJ. Anti-2nd Amendment activity.
https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/new-jersey/governor/2018/11/08/nj-bans-ghost-guns-3-d-printable-guns-other-weapons-new-laws/1933236002/
Gee, ya think? Now I have to get back to virtue signaling for likes, complaining I’m not handed what my mother told me I deserved and polishing my participation trophies while waiting for somebody to hire me at a six figure salary because I have an MFA doncha know.
Naturally, if none of this works out by the time I’m 30 it’s everyone else’s fault and time to self destruct with plenty of collateral damage.
…Oh and the article by this person is ridiculous…The U.S. Constitution/Bill of Rights is under attack by architects using political tactics to reason away freedom and liberty 🗽under the disguise of public safety and Homeland Security…We are quickly becoming an “Authoritarian” country! These people must be brought forward and removed from our halls of Government. Through the courts and the general public that wish to preserve American freedom. Before things take a wrong turn….
Before things take a wrong turn? That wrong turn has been happening for at least 30 to 50 years.
The US’s fate was sealed December 23, 1913.
Sure, the gunman can by chance take out the one armed citizen first, but what if there’s 7 armed citizens in a crowd of 150? What about 20? 50?
And what does the effectiveness of an armed citizen have to do with the right to defend yourself? Just because you might not actually take the bad guy doesn’t mean you don’t have the right to try. It’s like arguing that being inarticulate or not being religious means you have no right to free speech or worship. Why must people always do the word pretzel just to say they think their fellow man should be less free?
Unfortunately there are those who disagree with the whole concept of ‘God given rights’ and the Constitution is too easily ignored and if there are enough of these people they can even change the Constitution. So this is where it’s essential to not only argue the Constitution but the social utility of private citizens keeping and bearing arms. We simply need to keep these people in the minority. We are right on both counts and whichever argument works it needs to be implemented.
You aren’t wrong there. It should be a discussion of rights and facts, but we do have to pander a bit. That’s the world today. Sad.
The argument I like to make is that the armed (and trained) citizen is the first line of defense for the individual and the community. It is a citizen’s civic duty to be armed for defensive purposes if they are capable.
The police cannot respond fast enough to stop a violent criminal act that is in progress (regardless of the type of offensive weapon utilized). Citizens are expected to be armed and trained to defend against violent criminals.
That is exactly what the 2nd Amendment implies.
Mad Max, exactly correct, and precisely that concept should be taught in every grade in public school, and tested in every grade as well. Don’t hold your breath. But the first thing our children should be licensed to do (a prerequisite to driving) is carry a loaded gun everywhere they go.
I’m completely OK that when an active shooter fires into a crowd, the crowd fires back.
My only concern is if some don’t see the original bogey and start shooting at one or more of the good guys responding…
A valid concern, but I think there should be some easily identifiable differences between a homicidal maniac and an armed citizen bearing arms in defense. First, very few people conceal carry a rifle, so that would be an obvious clue. Second, the body language should be radically different. The shooter will keep his weapon up while scanning for victims while the law abiding citizen is going to draw his weapon and keep it at low ready until he identifies the target, then engage and go back to low ready. The shooter is also likely to be standing in the open while the law abiding citizen is almost certainly going to be crouched behind any cover or concealment he can find.
Now where it could get really tricky is if you find yourself, not facing a psycho killer but in the middle of a gang fight.
This is all true, but very easily missed when someone has a spike in adrenaline. Seen even in simunitions training.
Personally I’d be more worried about the local SWAT busting in and mistaking me for the shooter, but odds are I’d have a couple of hours to reholster.
I once saw a boot shoot a sergeant with blank ammo because the sergeant kicked open a window shutter too fast in a training area. Shit happens, thats why we train…
This is a common refrain among gun grabbers and assorted snowflakes, the interesting thing is that you hear the question asked repeatedly, but out of 1.2 million+ defensive uses of a firearm every year, I have yet to hear of it *ever* actually happening. Think about that.
David French is a cosmopolite fool, someone who lives in an urban bubble and makes his living by spouting twaddle which he, along with National Review, believes is genuine thoughtful commentary. It is not. Carrying guns means we have a fighting chance. Not carrying guns means having no chance at all.
“My only concern is if some don’t see the original bogey and start shooting at one or more of the good guys responding…”
I don’t think we need to worry about this much considering so far it’s never happened.
But maybe that’s just because almost every one of these is in a gun free zone.
Right, to all.
I guess I’m not wearing black BDUs out in public, anymore, though.
Maybe donning a nice jacket with “GOOD GUY” in reflective tape letters on its back and sleeves may help, too.
Could be a whole new clothing line!
There are over 17 million CCW and handgun permit holders. If that was a problem, there would be at least **ONE** example of your scenario.
I haven’t seen any instances where an active shooter has been taken down by an assembly of carrying citizens, yet, either, but again, that’s the crux of these a-holes picking gun-free-zones.
I know many who carry Everywhere.
What’s the old adage? “‘Tis better to be tried by twelve than to be carried by eight.”
And yes, the GOOD GUY clothing idea isn’t exactly Grey Man subtle.
I’ll stick with low profile, all day long.
There’s no reasoning with people like this because they just don’t care. Only one political ideology is here. Destroy the 2nd Amendment by “regulating” it out of existence. Make sure next to no one can exercise this constitutional right. Like my state of Massachusetts. Where the local/state police have draconian control over who gets an FID card/LTC-pistol permit. Without a firearms license, no resident can purchase any firearm or ammo. This does NOT include the mandatory safety certification, local PD interviews (without a lawyer present. Even criminals get that basic right under the Miranda warning.) Long permit wait times, if approved. Restrictions, and of course, constitutional waivers….We ALL need to band together to combat the ever encroaching efforts of ” authoritarianism” with our country…
In MA there are 2 types of individuals REQUIRED to notify police within 30 days of moving….registered sex offenders, and LTC permit holders. So in The eyes of the law in MA, owning a firearm is right up there with registered sex offenders.
I cannot begin to express how offensive I find that.
As you should, because it is intended to socially isolate gun owners.
“Even the fortunate presence of armed citizens doesn’t by any means guarantee a positive outcome. People can freeze. People can miss. A gunman can take down the armed citizen first.” So we’re supposed to show up at the gunfight without a gun? Uuuuuuuh, no. You do you, I’ll do me.
Well that’s the way this country was supposed to be. They can be unarmed game to random thugs and we can have sharp teeth or in this case guns. The problem is they don’t only disagree with you, but by disagreeing with you it’s a given that you should be forced to change at the gunpoint of the law.
Oh, another FYI/News flash:
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/11/09/don-lemon-stop-pretending-second-amendment-is-sacrosanct/
Perhaps it’s time we stopped pretending the First Amendment is sacrosanct and banned Don Lemon from cable TV.
It’s sad the Pravda is no longer what it was. A good home for the twit.
+1
This is a point I like to make, too.
In which case, you’re no worse off than if no one, other than the shooter, were armed.
But an armed response, of any kind, changes the equation. The equation starts out completely one sided. A shooter can stand and shoot indiscriminately, with absolute impunity and without fear. A shooter with a rifle has the element of surprise, a tactical advantage and firepower. But just one person with a pocket .380 adds some degree of balance to the equation. Now, the shooter has to duck, find cover, move as he didn’t originally plan. That gives people a chance to escape. Even if the armed response is completely unsuccessful at neutralizing the attacker, lives will certainly be saved. That’s the WORST case scenario.
Actually, you are still better off if an armed citizen is taken down first, since there is a gun present which is not controlled by the bad guy. At least today (fruitcakes are trying to change it) you can pick up that gun and make good use of it.
And don’t forget those bags in the airports that airlines identify as having a firearm with a bright red tag. If you need a firearm those are already flagged.
An armed response gets inside the shooter’s OODA loop. More often than not, returned fire or even the real threat of returned fire stops his killing spree right then and there.
The underlying cause for these mass shootings is the disintegration of the family. We need strong fathers and mothers committed to each other and their children.
Bingo,however lets move right along to I am age 69 however I identify as a 29 year old,any other B S excuse to further destroy American society.
That would probably fix a good deal of this nation’s problems. Dads being dads and momse being moms. Almost like we were designed that way (sarc).
So how do we encourage that, when both parents need to work long hours to pay rent & health care costs? I think it’s time to push back on the corporatists and think more about the people. Healthy capitalism doesn’t have everything decided by big money guys screwing over the middle class. We’re a capitalist country, but we need some balance back.
I think paying for your own stuff and having other pet pay for theirs is a great start. If you weren’t paying for 2 other people’s health care then it would be much more affordable. Not to mention if you actually knew what everything costs when you had a procedure done. The government picking winners and losers isn’t free market capitalism. Capitalism isn’t the enemy here. A government full of paper stampers and rule makers is the real problem with not being able to afford xyz. And yes I see how paying for other people’s health insurance, public school, and welfare makes it hard to afford your own without getting a second job for the family dog.
I like the way you guys think.
Personal fiscal responsibility is a huge part of it.
Happy and successful family life comes through respect, forgiving each other, working together, love taught by example, and great family outings… Hopefully involving responsible gun use with copious quantities of ammo.
Hmmm…cop’s can freeze. Cop’s can miss(especially in NYC). Cop’s can and do puzzy out. The gunman in Thousand Oaks knew it was a “gun free zone” even if there was a security guard. You’ll never stop all crime with guns. Even if you stop one they can always drive into a crowd(Nice ain’t nice)…the more CCholders the better!
Lol! Everyone is missing the real reason for this generation of mass murder. For generations, the left embodied by teachers, professors, entertainers, journalists and other mass media voices have consistently broken down the moral code given by God. Religion and religious people are disrespected. This is the result. No God, no peace. Know God, know peace.
I think that a ties into the traditional family structure, but sure the judeo-christian system of beliefs has a huge part in the success and stability of our western culture.
I’m thinking if that were the cause, we’d be having around 1000 times the crazy crimes we’re having, as opposed to its still being very rare. But good shot at sticking in a plug for an unrelated subject. My family is uninterested in superstition of any stripe, but are unaffected by these problems as the bride and I celebrate 51 years together. Good and thinking people can love and respect each other for a lifetime without threats from invisible space aliens.
Religion directly might not be the answer, but the judeo-christian set of values that the western world was founded on might be. Like it or not, this country was founded on a lot of the so called “space alien” ideas and “superstition”. I’m actually not sure what that system of values has in it that creates so much venom in people with the opposing views. I’m not active in any religion, but even I realize turning away from those values completely is probably the worst thing this country could do.
I’m a fan of judeo-Christian values, consider them a well thought out and proven successful system and template for society. They were also successfully integrated into a set of children’s stories between 2000 and 5-6000 years ago. There are also valuable lessons to be learned from Star Wars and Harry Potter, but nobody tries to pretend they’re the literal truth.
We have 2-3 decades of neurologically compromised and damaged people since the 1986 Childhood Vaccine Injury Act was passed. This law shielded the vaccine manufacturers from any and all liability, the only product in the US to enjoy this blanket federal government protection. We have seen autism rates skyrocket following this law, and when you consider the vaccine manufacturers have ZERO incentive to make safe products, is this really surprising?
The link between vaccines and autism is total pseudo-science.
Why are there so many cases of autism these days? The same reason there was a rash of tonsillectomies in the 1950s and 60s. It had nothing to do with environmental issues causing tonsillitis. It was just the medical fashion of the day. Your kid keeps getting sore throats every cold and flu season? Rip his tonsils out. Your kid drinks Code Red, bounces of the ceiling for hours and won’t listen to you? Aspergers! Take these pills and call me in the morning.
Sorry Governor, you’re 100% wrong on this.
Sorry, but your delusions are not the grand arbiters of truth.
it alright Governor, keep your head in the sand and ingnore the emerging biological science. The autism rate for boys will be 1 in 2 within 30 years by some estimates.
Yeah, no kid should drink code red. That’s just child abuse. Green stuff or nothing!
Wow you’re still beating this dead horse. Amazing how many fools are taken in by the internet’s. PT Barnum would be proud. Your anti vaccine crusade reminds one of those that the deny the earth is round. I think you need to adjust the tinfoil
That was a nice derp post joe. Nothing shows ignorance like a tinfoil hat reference.
A society where everyone “deserves” and it’s government’s responsibility to “provide” being pounded day after day with propaganda of intolerance. The tearing down of all the principles of conduct, personal responsibiltiy and the actual belief in God that this nation was founded on. It’s far more than intellect that separates man from the other animals. It is the simple fact of being responsible for his or her conduct. It is the evil deed and doer that needs considering. Nothing beyond that.
“our nation is generating an excess of broken, damaged people”
Our education system is generating an excess of broken, damaged people. That’s what happens when communists take control. They destroy from the inside.
Yes. They. Do.
Sure thing. If they can’t convince you to accept communism they’ll just take over education and teach your kids to love it.
What? Are you insinuating that I do *NOT* have a right to everything I ever want, for free? That can’t be right.
The author of the piece nails it with the title, “We Don’t Know How to Stop Mass Shootings “, then dribbles off the target into squishy politics (believing that it is possible to have an objective conversation). The title will mean little to the gun grabbers.
There are a lot of broken Americans, the causes are of which:
1. divorced or otherwise broken families
2. children spend much of their time in the formative years in unloving environments(daycares where they watched by mediocre or worse people making little more than minimum wage and have to compete for the attention of these pseudo-parents with a bunch of other children)
3. cold, uncaring school systems where children are bullied with little protection from the adults in the system, the children are allowed to bully other child, or they are witnesses to bullying.
4. electronic media stunting them as social beings, read this article: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/26/style/phones-children-silicon-valley.html
5. a decay of traditional religious beliefs
I’m not a NYT enthusiast in the slightest, but that was a very interesting article with the comments, following.
As a millennial myself there is, to me, a few things jump out at me about this statement.
First, it’s not just people in my age group that are doing this. Las Vegas anyone (guy was 64)? The Navy Yard(shooter was 34), Ft. Hood shootings (Hasan was 48, Lopez was 34)? None of these guys was a millennial or younger. Crazy isn’t just an age thing.
The second thing that jumps out to me is that it doesn’t appear to me that a lot of these people have a “common thread” that ties them together other than “crazy”. Sure, Harris, Klebold and Cruz were all likely bullied severely until they snapped but Omar Mateen wasn’t bullied “into” his actions. Nor was Paddock. The same is true of Holmes. Mateen was a Muslim who hated gays and may have been one himself, Paddock we’ll probably never know. Holmes was a complete nut. Seung-Hui Cho had been adjudicated as mentally unstable but not entered into the system. Lanza had too many mental issues to count. Dylan Roof was probably a hate consumed out and out racist while the D.C. snipers, who were both black, seemed to have some sort of irrational hatred towards the U.S., possibly fueled partly by Islam and partly by perceived slights against Muhammad who in turn seemed to some extent have brainwashed Malvo.
I won’t go on here posting a large rant but the issue here, IMHO, is that we try to put these people in nice, neat little boxes into which they don’t all fit. The reasons behind what a mass shooter does vary enormously from perpetrator to perpetrator. I mean, Charles Whitman may have done what he did due to a brain tumor FFS. The truth is that there really are no “barriers” to being a mass shooter. Age, race, religion and other factors play parts in certain perpetrators motives but not in others. Jumping outside our country the motives for such attacks are varied as well but it’s pretty clear that age isn’t the determining factor.
Because there is no single “cause” for these shootings there is no single solution. The answer isn’t Religion or mental health or better policing and it sure as hell isn’t gun control. The solution lies in a multi-pronged approach that covers numerous reasons people might shoot up a place and placing barriers to them doing so in their way. We’ll still miss some perpetrators but we’ll cut down on this behavior drastically if we address it honestly and appropriately. In some cases the answer really is to try to make sure that the response of a “good guy with a gun” is faster, and yes, that means teachers and school staff who choose to be armed being allowed to be armed or having that potential CCW holder at that mall or place or worship or where ever.
There is no silver bullet but we’re not going to get a handle on this shit without first admitting that the perpetrators don’t fit into nice little PC boxes.
There is *one* common thread –
In each case, the perps knew they would get extensive media coverage, and they would be (in)famous, and that would be a form of immortality…
^^^^
This.
Well now there is evidence of this:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/11/10/thousand-oaks-shooting-gunman-posted-instagram-during-bar-massacre/1958013002/
“Long, 28, first posted on Instagram at 11:24 p.m: “It’s too bad I won’t get to see all the illogical and pathetic reasons people will put in my mouth as to why I did it,” the military veteran said in the post. “Fact is I had no reason to do it, and I just thought….(exploitive), life is boring so why not?” Long posted, according to ABC News and Buzzfeed.
Three minutes later Long posted, “I hope people call me insane (two smiley face emojiis) would that just be a big ball of irony? Yeah… I’m insane, but the only thing you people do after these shootings is ‘hopes and prayers’…or ‘keep you in my thoughts’.”
He added, “Every time…and wonder why these keep happening… –(two smiley face emojis).””
Been hearing thoughts, hopes and prayers after every loss of life event, including murders with a firearm.
@Strych
Really great comment and supporting comments.
It does seem that a certain amount of frustrated narcissism and entitlement is part of the makeup of these folks. Kind of an attitude of, “Well, I didn’t get what I thought I deserved from life, so I’m gonna take it out on all of you then kill myself so that my meaningless life can at least go out in a blaze of glory.”
Maybe it’s a coincidence but lately the shooters seem to be a good bit older than your typical criminal, who is 15 to 30. These guys are past and in several cases well past that age. There does seem to be a theme of being a sociallly isolated loner who blames the world for not having the life they think they deserved.
In the almost 10 years I’ve been a mental health professional, I’ve only seen a few folks who I thought were high risks for violence. All of them had previously been in legal trouble and made threats online or in person toward others. All of them had problems with substance abuse, particularly alcohol and speeds. All of them blamed other people for the fact that their lives had gone nowhere and refused to take personal responsibility for their poor choices. There was a strong tendency to externalize blame to everyone and everything else rather than looking at themselves.
Needless to say, therapy didn’t help these folks, and they dropped out because the personal responsibility you have to learn in therapy was repugnant to them.
There are not really that many of these people in society, the problem is that even one person like this can do huge amounts of damage, just like one pedophile can have hundreds of victims.
I still expect every day that I might see one of them on the news someday.
‘Our rulers want us just smart enough to push buttons and to not ask questions’, can’t recall who said that, maybe comedian George Carlin? But there’s a lot of thruth to this statement, regardless who said it. Few people over the age of 40 would deny the dumbing down of younger generations, and we have proof this is deliberate. The Educational system, The declining nutrition of our food supply, the chemicals we are exposed to, the attack on morality and God, and yes strych, the neutoxin containing vaccines our babies are being injected with starting day 1 of life are just some of the parts achieving this goal. I came across a yahoo! “News” article several years ago which actually stated that autistic people were better technology employees, because they could push buttons without asking questions. We can debate why we have mass shooters all day, every day, but if you step back and take a 10,000 foot view, the picture becomes a little clearer.
To strych9. Overall, I agree with your statements. But, I also look at the fact that there are (conservatively speaking) over 200 million guns in this country. I am in no way calling for an outright ban of any particular firearm or accessory or ammo. But with this amount of potential carnage in the hands of many, it would be very difficult, if not impossible to make a dent in the problem. Unless, we ALL; right, left, MOR, etc. get involved. And, that means the gun industry and the banks too. Government will never solve this issue with their constant in-fighting. But sensible people who are willing to GIVE on BOTH sides of the issue can make a difference. IMHO, it is the numbers that are the problem – that is – the number of guns and the number of people that must be watched.
Eli, not a very good attempt at disguising a gun control/dismantle 2A post. Pretty transparent stuff. Like your comment about the banks, they are a major player in the removal of our rights, including the 2A.
Eli2016—Your statement illustrates that you don’t understand “the problem”. You assume that access to guns is the problem, but the reality is that this is a behavioral problem. Any attempt to solve this problem by more gun regulations is only going to punish the millions upon millions of lawful gun owners, in a futile attempt to control the aberrant behavior of an extremely tiny number of unhinged individuals. These individuals don’t care how many laws they are breaking. You can’t stop these heinous acts with legislation when those laws are so easily ignored. The best we can do is try to discourage these attacks by bolstering defenses. Turn easy targets aka “unenforced gun free zones” into hard targets like courtrooms and banks. The one thing that nearly all of the mass shootings in the US have in common is that the shooter was eventually stopped with a gun, either by a citizen or police officer with a gun. If the “good guy” with a gun is already there, the shooting might be prevented all together, or at a minimum, casualties could be minimized.
Let me make it simple. I am a ccw holder and I carry all day, everyday, every where. I own several firearms and I know an elk from a deer. So I am in no way trying to dismantle the 2A. Nor do i advocate in any way a gun control/grab. What I do seek are open minds on the issue we as a country face.
Have you ever been to Vegas? Have you ever played the odds on a bet? If you have then you know that the odds of hitting a big hand or a progressive on a slot depends on the number of people putting their hard earned cash down. And, the more tables available, the more slots available means that someone on any given day or night is going to hit it big. That’s the odds. Those are the facts. Now then, 200 million + guns in a country with a few hundred million people. That means the odds of someone shooting up a place and creating a tragedy is fairly high. Don’t you think? Just do the math.
I believe in the 2A. I also believe that too much of anything can be a bad thing. Maybe something as crazy as recycling firearms is the answer. I don’t know. But I do know this, somewhere down the line enough people are going to get mad – mad enough to do some crazy things about the guns that I love. I think I’d rather be in control of my own destiny rather then some billionaire who just wants to change the world.
” I also believe that too much of anything can be a bad thing. ”
Such as too much freedom, too much liberty, too much adherence to the idea that a person has a natural, human and civil right to self-defense by whatever means can be made available?
BTW – what is it about 2A that you believe in?
Your argument is a bumper sticker. Probably sitting right next to the Elizabeth Warren 2020 bumper sticker on your Prius.
You are again ignoring the fact that reducing the number of guns, no matter how it is done, will not address the behavior that is the problem. And if you use that math to somehow reduce the number of guns by half, you still have millions of guns, and have still done nothing to prevent, discourage, or defend against these types of attacks.
I think most POtG are open minded. However, this is not a “gun violence” problem. It is a violence problem. Reducing the number of guns will not reduce the number of stabbing, beating and other means of killing, in fact, it would likely increase other methods of killing. The tool is not the problem, the behavior is.
In general I agree with you, rates do not sufficiently explain things to me, probability has to be a factor. Basically, if you look at a specific event caused by people, the more people there, the more potential chances there are for it to happen. This can explain why rates differ between populations of drastically different sizes vary a lot. Can is the key word though, other factors must be considered, of which I doubt we will ever have enough of a grasp on enough of them to really know anything meaningful.
Where I disagree is putting it all on the amount of guns, I don’t think it is simply one factor.
Yes Matt. Your point is well taken. It is more likely a combination of guns and the overall population growth. There are of course other factors involved. Such as a decline in the family structure and the overabundance of technology, specifically social media.
Eli, specifically what population growth are you referring to?
To Pg2. Common sense would dictate that more people = more unstable people. The family unit has deteriorated in many instances. That in itself would lead to mental health issues. The odds favor the nuts.
Eli, you dodged the question. Some populations are increasing while others are declining. Which population increase, specifically, are you referring to?
So, shall we begin our conversation and compromise with confiscating *your* guns, cancelling your right to hunt, and then ignoring all of your suggestions? What prevents that from happening is 2A. Either get behind it, or surrender completely. POTG have compromised and conversed in good faith for 40+ years, and been cheated and bullied and lied to in return. I will consider another gun control law when drugs are no longer a problem in America. Until then, only the law abiding will be affected by gun control laws, and law abiding people are not the problem. Enforce the laws against murder, and drugs, before advocating more laws.
One fairly common thread in a lot of mass shootings is the presence of sheep to shoot.
We have a media that doesn’t mediate and a government that can’t govern. At our “best”, we don’t manage to behave much better or differently than the chimps and orangs. We’ve got better thumbs and language and we’ve successfully weaponized the hell out of both of them. We are in the process of slowly (like we always do) killing off with nuclear and undegradeable plastic waste the only other sentiet mammals on the planet. Then, we wonder why intelligent life elswhere hasn’t made contact. “Just move along, folks, there’s nothing to see here, we’ll have it all cleaned up soon, just keep moving along, thank you”… -30-
Evidently the society “they” are building doesn’t work so well.
The generation difference from then and now is the application, experimentation of mental illness psych drugs coupled with mainstream and social media. Our youth has been desensitized and made into soft snowflakes.
Or perhaps the same kind of despicable, violent, and mentally ill or defective people that have always existed exist just the same today but simply with the benefit of technological advances to do the same sort of things they always did but to a much more extreme degree.
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