Emerging from bankruptcy restructuring, Colt announced lower pricing on many of its products and has released a few new ones. On the handgun front, The Colt Competition Pistol and Lightweight Commander just made it to market, and we had the chance to put a few rounds through them at SHOT Show Range Day plus snap a few pics of Colt pistols both new and established . . .
It looked like the USMC Special Forces’ new pistol, Colt’s Close Quarters Battle Pistol M45A1, was popular on Range Day. I was never a fan of the tan color scheme until I saw it with a shooting-induced, scorched muzzle.
Onto the new stuff, for 2016 Colt is introducing a competition-grade, buy-it-on-the-way-to-a-match 1911 called, appropriately enough, The Colt Competition Pistol.
It features a dual spring recoil system in both .45 ACP and 9mm, an undercut trigger guard and upswept beavertail, and a National Match barrel.
The rear sight is a Novak’s unit, and the front is a blue fiber optic.
I shot it in 9mm and found it very easy and pleasurable to shoot. With the dual recoil spring — and you can actually feel the progressive nature of the springs while shooting — and 9×19 chambering it’s a total pussycat on recoil. Accurate, too. However, if they’re going to call it a competition pistol I can’t help but feel they should raise the $899 MSRP — which is low for a Colt 1911 — and add a few more features like a flared magazine well, a target-style rear sight, larger controls, maybe more slide serrations, etc.
Also new for 2016 and also available in either .45 ACP or 9×19 is the Lightweight Commander. For $949 MSRP you receive a commander-sized, aluminum-framed 1911 with the aforementioned Dual Spring Recoil System and Colt G10 grips.
If I may go off on a tangent briefly, it bothers me that the previous pistol is officially “The Colt Competition Pistol” but this one is the “Lightweight Commander.” Why isn’t it “The Colt Lightweight Commander?” With a press release just chock-freakin-full of ™ and ®, the branding inconsistency hurts my OCD. It’s the small things that keep you out of Chapter 11.
Not helping me stay out of Chapter 11 myself are good looking, classic guns like Colt’s Single Action Army with color case hardened finish.
This is the “Combat Unit Rail Gun.” MSRP, like the SAA above, is $1,499.
I believe the following is a custom shop creation.
This QCBP M45A1 will look better with 1,000 rounds through it:
This is a joke, right? Unless you’re shooting bullseye or CDP class in IDPA, there’s no reason by buy a Colt 1911 for competition. Colt has almost no market share in the action shooting sports, which are growing like crazy. To me, this just shows how out of touch Colt is, making bullseye pistols for a competition discipline that’s rapidly going away. How many more times can they repackage at a 1911 and call it something new?
“There’s no reason to buy a Colt” There I fixed it for you.
Uspsa single stack, in 45acp (I don’t think they have single stack 9mm div), but there are lots of offerings besides colt.
Most people are gaming single stack with a .40 S&W in uspsa….
But I agree, if you are going to single stack, .45 is the way I’d go.
45 for Major.
9mm for Minor.
Last sentence there I think you mean CQBP, not QCBP.
Qlose cuarters? haha whoops. A little bit lisdexic sometimes.
Dyslexics Untie!
Can someone explain to me why Colt only makes Single Action Army revolvers? WTF is stopping them from bringing back their double action revolver line?
Brains
American Rifleman had a great article on this a few months back. The tooling and smiths that made those beauties are long gone, and hella expensive/logistically difficult to reproduce. However, I encourage them to invest in that exact endeavor as they restructure and start fresh (as fresh as years of ignoring the US civilian can be). There are a couple of generations of shooters that grew up on Colt DA revolvers. My first shooting experience with something larger than a .22 was with my grandfather and his Colt Python. I’d buy one out of pure nostalgia.
Found it:
http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/8/18/colt-s-snake-guns/
They aren’t starting fresh. It’s the same shit ownership / management team that drove them into the ground.
I commend Colt for bringing back the Colt Model “M” even if it is to be a limited production. I would say they did make one good move in regards to this. Needless to say this run of .32 and .380 nostalgic all steel pistols will go quickly so get yours now before they are all gone. Its refreshing to see this as compared to all the plasticky garbage all the other firearms makers seem to be vomiting out these days.
They hate their customers and their money.
They could if they designed a modular cheap ass cast steel revolver like Ruger did in the 1960’s but then again why pay more for a cast iron Colt when you can buy a roughly made piece of iron that crude as it is usually does work sort off which is a Ruger.
Because of new manufacturing techniques, or something, only three Colt pistols are currently available new on the California Roster, the SAA (why is it that the Italian clones can’t get anywhere near the level of finish of a Colt?), the colt Commander, and the Colt Python. Which suggests that Colt is indeed bringing the revolver back.
As I keep explaining to TTAG’s readers: Colt no longer has that level of expertise in house. Most all major gun companies no longer have that level of expertise in house, either.
What people don’t understand about Colt’s DA revolvers is this: They require real expertise in gunsmithing to put them together and get them timed correctly. Colt’s revolvers had a reputation for a “bank vault lock-up,” which was partly how they were put together and partly how their mechanism worked (a large part of which was that the cylinder revolves into the window, not out of it as S&W’s do. It doesn’t matter whether we’re talking of a Python or the most crudely finished New Service – they require real gunsmithing expertise to time them correctly.
The “snake” revolvers, and especially the Python, take the issue to a whole new level, by requiring all the usual expertise to time up a Colt DA revolver, and then we need to add an expert level of metal finishing on top of that.
I’ve said several times before here at TTAG that a new production Python probably could not go out the door for less than $2500. That’s assuming the company producing the Pythons is paying $30/hour all-in for the labor on revolver production, and I’m guesstimating a total of 50 man-hours per Python, then add in materials, excise taxes, overhead, etc.
I only partially agree with you. If Colt or any other manufacturer wanted to , yes they could make the Python again. But the greed factor, not the trained labor factor, stops them. The blind greed of the stock holders demands obscene profits and the profit level on the Python would be much lower to make it affordable even to upper end income people who by the way usually do not have guns as a hobby. There are exceptions to the rule but I am speaking in relations to the percentage of lower income people who’s hobby is firearms v/s the percentage of upper income class people that collect firearms, in other words the market is not strong enough to justify tying up the machinery and labor to produce them and still make obscene hand over fist profits.
Now in response to the premise that there is not enough old fashioned skilled labor to produce them. This is misleading as putting together a Python is not rocket science but one of training and it does not take all that time to learn. I am not passing the usual rectum gas that you find from so many that are self-anointed experts. I have worked on Pythons and I taught myself. Again it was tedious but I was only using hand tools and when I got done with hand fitting the “hand” I had done a better job than the factory that had f**ked up my gun by installing too short a hand. After I did the job right I shot the gun for years with no problem. Now if I could teach myself in one afternoon then Colt with professional instructors could easily train its workers to do the same but you see that costs money and the blind greed of stock holders would never allocate such resources even it meant profits and more loyal for life customers in the future. Stock holders know they can rape the consumer with cheaply made plasticky stuff and make high obscene profits hand over fist so why bother with a big project to make a finely crafted firearm. Sad to say it does not make good greed rip off business sense.
Feeling the “Bern”? Businesses are in business to make PROFIT. Obviously,Colt wasn’t too good at making “obscene” profits.
Wrong, they were making money but it was being raped and stolen by the greed monger C.E.O.’S who raped the money as fast as it came in. This is normal behavior of American C.E.O.’S. They rape a company, bankrupt it and then move on to the next victim company which always seems dumb enough to hire the crooks. The ideal form of legalized robbery and theft.
I will take Dyspeptic’s (a professional Wyoming gunsmith) thoughts over any amateur who likely damaged a Colt Python.
You have forgotten two things 1. Colt would never pay $30.00 an hour to its employees to assemble pythons it would be more like a dollar or two above minimum wage. And 2. in regards to that smart ass crack at my expertise my gun lasted for years after the repair. So try and dodge that reality.
Now would the Python cost a lot and would it be beyond the average persons willingness to by one. Maybe not and here is reality. I regularly compete in bench rest 22 rim fire matches where custom guns built on custom hand made actions cost an average of $2,500 dollars by the time you also put on a custom made stock and the scopes can cost $2,000 as well bringing the cost to well over $4,000 dollars. Now if these small companies that are building these guns can do it because they do not make obscene profits then Colt could to but the market is small and big companies have to please stock holders with high volume sales and again greed monger stock holders would never stand for this kind of low profit production. Remember too buyers would only buy a python made of quality materials not junk castings, stamp sheet metal and junk plastic which again would lower profits and be rejected by the stock holders.
And to further solidify my case if the average yokel had kept abreast of what goes on at the custom level a few years ago an American Company (very small machine shop) made a reproduction Luger that required 1,400 machining operations as opposed to the 750 that it took to make a P38. What was the cost, if I remember correctly it was $4,000 and some dollars and guess what every Luger the guy made was sold before they were ever made. Once again proving my point that it is not the lack of skilled labor that prevents the great old high quality guns from being made again but rather the willingness to make less profit and produce less volume.
I’m going the contact Colt on this very issue. I have a marketing idea they may not have considered. Many months have gone into my venture into what the best of those pioneers tried to accomplish. Revolver. are not dead.
Don’t see any Pythons in that lineup. So not buying a Colt. Better companies make better 1911s if I want one.
Why bother? I’m waiting on the surplus 1911A1 from CMP to come out.
I know most of us are all thinking the same exact thing 😉
You’re going to keep waiting. You won’t see CMP 1911s.
Ok i’ll bite. Why not?
Because Obama, dude…
The price is going to start around $1000 for the rack grades and go up from there. It doesn’t seem like that great of a deal. But, in other news, the CMP is going to have a small batch of M1 Carbines for sale on 1 FEB. If you want one, make sure your order arrives that morning.
they have got some carbines right now for close to 700 bucks and they are beat up pieces of shit.
Most will sell for astronomical prices which is good because it will keep the “unwashed” from butchering them into annihilation with cheap after market plasticky and cast iron parts when they find out the rattle like an old tin can and have lousy trigger pulls and horrific accuracy which will immediately destroy the collector value down to less than the sum of the cheap after market parts used to butcher them. I do have nightmares about Bubba Bodine standing there smiling at me with his toothless grin while holding a large Wal-Mart hammer and drill in his hand which makes me wake up in a cold sweat screaming and gulping down handfuls of prosaic
“…which makes me wake up in a cold sweat screaming and gulping down handfuls of prosaic”
Definition of prosaic
a : characteristic of prose as distinguished from poetry :
factual b : dull, unimaginative
Prozac – Fluoxetine, also known by trade names Prozac and Sarafem among others, is an antidepressant of the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) class.
“dull, unimaginative” certainly characterizes the lack of quality in your comments here in TTAG, son. 🙂
A typo. Now is your childish shattered ego bolstered into snobbish superiority. And a typo does not change the reality or truth in my post. History has proven it many times over already.
So when I bought an Estwing hammer from Wally mart it’s lower quality than the Estwing I would buy from Ace? I guess that explains all the colts I have destroyed over the years.
While I want one, I’m not about to spend $1000 dollars on a 1911 that you know has been shot to s***. I might as well buy a new Colt or something else I want.
More like “only $1,000 for a 1911 that has tasted Nazi blood!” Got to have perspective on these.
You are 100 per cent correct but these worn out surplus junker’s are collectors items and if the majority of the Bubba Bodine Morons that will some day buy them leave them the hell alone in their original military condition they will continue to escalate wildly in value but of course this will never happen because Bubba cannot wait to destroy everything he gets his hands on as he will use his Wal-Mart files to attempt to correct the awful trigger pulls on these guns and he will put the slide in a vice and squeeze it attempting to take the slope out of it which of course will promptly crack it and of course he will need plasticky night sights put on which he will beat on with a large Walmart hammer etc. etc. I have not made up my mind as to whether I want one or not because they are not shooters but investments and that is a lot of money just to have a gun sitting around that you can only look at.
Brains
“New from Colt: Another 1911!”
Colt is nothing but a one-trick pony.
It’s not a trick if every one can do it
What no AR’s ??? WTF? Also, I bet the fiber sight cooks off.
Eventually they all do… but you still have a front sight when that happens…
They do have a new AR plus the ones that have been around for years, but I was concentrating on pistols this year at SHOT so skipped over their ARs…
This is the new one: http://www.colt.com/Catalog/Rifles/ExpanseM4.aspx …kind of funny that it has the place for a forward assist and a dust cover but comes without either.
Any news on ramping up production of the SAA? Still kind of hard to get a hold of.
Ruger took up their slack and made better business choices.
.. and the horse they rode in on.
Why any one buy over price new Colt when get same type 1911 with all same type features that Colt offering now on new 1911 from any one Colt manufacturing competitors at better value at same quality that Colt makes them???? Unless buy Colt for name on side slide 1911 I do not see any Colt 1911 beating what out all ready out there on 1911 market at lower price at same quality as Colt makes them. I am not Colt hater but I agree with ever body else unless Colt come up fresh ideas well see them again one or two years down road in bankruptcy court again. Colt prices not gone win lower end 1911 market Colt not gone win high end `1911 market that has many high end 1911 manufacturing make better 1911 than Colt does for price.
Now that’s innovation. The new Colt lineup is the old Colt lineup of 100+ year old handguns. But no snakes. 🙁
I agree Ralph there new line up not very impressive same old bore line up few twist been label buy there new marketing department as new excite buy them. But not fooling any body look at there new line up says them self that all Colt can make right now. Special sent Ruger Smith & Wesson number other Colt manufacturing competitors at that show keep bring new kind firearms there stable that Colt refuse make.
Colt. Make a butt plain, parkerized 2 inch .38 and 4 inch .357. Mass produce them like you did the ww2 era “commando” with absolutely no frills but decent quality at an affordable price. Flood the market with them and get your name out in the public realm.
churn out a plain no frills mforgery in the same principle as your “commando” revolvers. And while these endeavors get your brand back in the public eye invest in some new R&D types and get some modern stuff off the boards.
I like what they did with the 6940, they just needed to make it a mid length instead of a carbine.
I did the weight comparison, I got the free float monolithic for 2 Oz over a 6920. That’s not whistling dixie…
It appears that barkruptcy taught them nothing. Either that or their R&D folks are working behind the scenes trying to make something new that isn’t ready for prime time yet. While I hope for the latter, I would put money on the former.
How about a Colt AR-15 A2 barrel with front sight base that has a bayonet lug. I would buy that right now to replace my shot out one. Are you listening Colt? I have money in hand!
It kinda boggles my mind when they put “7rd capacity” in such a huge font
On that tan Close Quarters Battle Pistol M45A1 with the burnt muzzle, there’s a square emblem of some sort just above the front of the trigger guard.
Is that one of those new computer bar code things?
Yes. QR code is a requirement for military stocking and tracking purposes.
Personal Opinion: It isn’t the tan cerakote that makes the M45 look cheap. Plenty of other makes have put out decent looking FDE pistols (SIG, Beretta, FN, Glock, S&W, Kimber). No, the M45 looks awful because of those terrible, acid-wash denim grips. I bet if you put a pair of black grips on it, it’d be fine.
Colt = Liberal. Period.
All you billionaire business geniuses better shut up. If Colt actually listens to you and starts building Pythons again, the value of mine might go down and then I’ll be PISSED.
Hmm. You sound like the people against making select fire guns legal. Gotta protect the investment, right? I honestly doubt the value of your old school Python would go down anyway. There’s gonna be differences in the new v the old that will set them apart, and make yours still valuable to a collector.
First off I am not attempting to beat up on Colt as I own many of the older models but none of the newer MIM cast disasters. All manufacturing companies these days are controlled by the blind greed of stock holders. No extreme profit from hour or minute to minute and the stock holders leave immediately. The name of the game is to higher Engineers not to improve products as they did in the halcyon days of yesteryear but rather to cheapen them to the point were they are lucky to work for a few minutes right out of the box. Marketing people know that the huge explosion in the human population on the planet (the U.S. has gone from 200 million to 300 million just in my short life time) that the market is so big they do not give a damn if they ever get a repeat customer as there will always be a new naïve sucker dumb enough to buy their trash. It has become so corrupt that the columns that purport to give options on product quality are now being written by paid dupes (for a few bucks only) to lie and say how great their junk is.
Just to prove I am not just beating up on Colt did you know that the new Beretta 92’s have trash plastic op-rods, trash plastic triggers, and safeties and trash MIM cast lock blocks that go snap, crackle and pop. Better buy a bag of them and change them after every box of ammo shot. I also recently bought a Mec 16 gauge reloading press and much to my horror the dies were made of junk plastic and the crimp die has to be replaced every few weeks because it just falls of the press due to the fact that you have to snap it over a steel ball and the die has a hole drilled into the junk brittle crimp die which must be snapped over the steel ball when changing from a 6 point crimp to an 8 point crimp. Pure genius of design would you not say. You must buy a bag of these junk crimp dies and they do not last long. Outrageous.
Folks, we are talking about Colt here. What exactly do you expect them to be making? They make 1911’s, SAA’s and AR platform MSR’s. In other words, THEY ARE MF’ING COLT! The new competition series is what has me intrigued. MSRP is $899, and right now they are reatailing around $750-$800. That is a really good price for a production, real genuine american made 1911, not a S. american, Turkish or Phillipino made 1911 clone. Remember Colt 1911’s are the real 1911’s, all others are clones. This competition series has a colt national match barrel, a true gold standard for 1911’s. All reports so far indicate it has good, tight barrel to slide and bushing lockup. Also good slide to frame fit, which is way over blown as the standard for 1911 accuracy. It contributes 5% or less to overal 1911 accuracy. This gun also has real Novak sights with user adjustable rear. Not just cheap ass knock offs in Novak cuts. I want to see and handle one in a LGS and I just might buy one to shoot the bleeping piss out of to see if Colt has really upped their game. JeremyS, please get one of the new Colt CCS 1911’s in .45 for t&e review. Your reviews are real, no bs and very informative.
They may have been top 1911 maker at one time Davidk. But American firearms company’s like Kimber, Para Ordance, Springfield Armory, Ruger, even Smith Wesson, Dan Wesson , Remington, all,s Sig Sauer witch is not American company. Have been make 1911 at same price point as Colt does at there price point offer same quality or better than Colt . They all have proven track record. Most company’s been use real Novak cut sight longer than Colt has. You can find ever thing that on new Colt 1911 been on all there other quality 1911 made from each those company,s at same price Colt sell them or less money what Colt selling there stuff. You can argue blue in face witch company make best 1911 on firearms market but say Colt better than all these other company,s get real.
Man i think when he said Colt is the real 1911 he meant “Original”, regardless of actual performance, and me too buy colt 1911s just for that. For human-killing purposes it’s gonna take a really expensive 1911 for me to ditch my Glocks, though.
Btw Please leave kimber outta the hoard you just mentioned. Throughout my competition life they have zero idea about extractor tension and the interaction among barrel – link – lower&upper lug – slide – slide stop – frame. And dont get me started on the timing of their Swartz safety. Kimbers are not nearly on the level of even a series 80 colt.
James you made very good point for self defenses more people are buy more affordable reliable handguns like Glock than they are 1911 these days. Very good reasons why Glock 17 Gen 4 hold 18 rounds 9mm Colt 45 with stock mags hold 8 rounds. Glock 17 Gen 4 stock magazines more reliable than any factory magazines for any 1911 out there. Most 1911 out on market are big heave handgun have more recoil than Glock 17 Gen 4. There are no 1911 in price rang of Glock 17 Gen 4 that well out last one. If you talk About Glock in 45 acp still get 10 round witch more 8 round get 1911 handgun. You still get handgun more reliable last longer than Colt half price. Truth be told why Colt gone fail they do not have horse in polymer frame full size handgun defense market like Ruger Smith Wesson Sig Sauer Springfield Armory Glock does . So James your right they just have taken them self out one best selling market which right now affordable polymer frame handguns.
my wife works for the blue in face witch company.
@DavidK
I think it’s a fine gun. Quality seemed solid for the price and it was very smooth. Accurate, nice shooter. Although my impression of the grip safety, hammer, thumb safety, mag release, etc is pretty much “bargain basement.” Same with the parkerized finish, although it’s done well it’s an inexpensive and plain looking treatment. The rear sight does offer some adjustment but I don’t really “get” the carry-style shaping of it and recessed notch area in the rear rather than a normal target sight. And Novak innovated some designs a long time ago but is now keeping it pretty dang simple, they look quickly pumped out, and they’re priced accordingly. Like $9 for a rear sight, as seen on guns like the Diamondback FS9. They aren’t exactly at the top of my list. And I still can’t see taking this pistol seriously for competition (IPSC, USPSA, 3-Gun, etc) use without at least having more aggressive slide serrations, larger controls, and a magwell. And checkering on the frontstrap would be nice. And extended mags wouldn’t hurt (it’s 8 rounds in .45 and just 9 rounds in 9mm).
meh
The band ” Big Country”, performing their smash hit single “Big Country”, off their new album “Big Country”.
I find the comment stream here just plain odd.
It’s not 1986 anymore. Yet the majority of the comments appear to be from that period, from the bad times at Colt when some really bad guns were going out all too often.
But it’s not like that now. My own personal experience is quite the opposite: as an example, I bought a 2007 1991 Government Model, half-expecting the sort of problems so many above believe to be endemic, and it turned out to be absolutely flawless in operation. It never stopped running in many thousands of rounds and I only sold it to finance another gun. It went to a clubmate who beat it out of me so he could shoot Wild Bunch- which he did, and it never failed him, either.
My regular Sunday morning-go-to-USPSA gun is a Special Combat Government Model made around 2000. It’s well past 100K rounds. I finally changed the barrel in the high 90s because I thought the lower lugs were weakening (we use lighter springs in that sport). It’s literally been so many years since it failed to operate perfectly I can’t even remember (I’m excepting bad ammo here, of course), and it sees an easy 10,000 rounds a year if not more. It’s so monotonously reliable my tap-rack-bang skills are gone.
I grabbed a “Tactical” model from a divorce sale as a backup to my Single Stack gun. It had some miles but all I had to do tighten the plunger tube. It, too, has never, ever ceased to operate perfectly.
More: at the enormous dealer/range we often instruct at, we talk to the warranty return guy to see what’s what. For example, we learned early about the Walther CCP being a huge problem.
He tells us the 1911s that go back the most (this dealer does not sell Taurus 1911s at all, as a policy) are usually the Kimbers nowadays. Colts are on the better end of the spectrum in terms of warranty returns.
No, I’m not suggesting Colts are perfect and never go back, and that my three 21st century guns are the 100% norm. They put out a few stinkers, too. They all do- my missus sent back a Les Baer once.
Again, this is 2016, not 1986.
Suggestions that Colt is deficient because it emphasizes 1911s are hard to understand. What with so much of the market rushing into the 1911 field- good heavens, Sig makes 1911s! (I need to call my mom and see if she’s making them, too)- why wouldn’t Colt center itself there?
If you haven’t caught up, now’s the time.
Sending les baer back is perfectly normal, seriously. It surprises me she could even rack that action. How did the timing on the colt firing pin block hold up for you? Did you have any firing pin wear?
The two 21st century Government Models have the infernal things, but no, I haven’t noticed any problem in that regard.
It’s true, we can do without them.
Yes, the 1911 is more than safe enough. I love the safety design that blocks the slide when applied, and block the safety when the hammer is down. The slide wont go outta battery when i dont want it to. And if somebody decides to carry it in condition 3, there’s no safety to worry about after racking. Nowadays safety nazis ruined this.
+1
Whats the deal with the burnt muzzles? None of my guns do that, that I can tell.
Carried a 1911 in nam for a bit and they never looked like that….
Does that wipe off?
It depends on if it’s firing deposit or burnt finish. The former scrubs off before caking on there. The latter means you either have a poor finish or you shot too much too quick and ruined it. I dunno which one this is though
It’s just reidue from firering, it’s noticeable on lighter finishes. It wipes right off.
1911’s are way overdone, seems to me Colt needs to come up with something new, something that would compete with a Glock.
Glocks aren’t new anymore… ask the dozens of manufacturers trying to out-Glock Glock.
Besides, many, many handgunners prefer metal guns. It’s a preference, and I for one have it.
The only plastic guns I have are the ones I need to use in our classes: my personal guns are all metal.
I’m not the only one.
Your post suddenly gave me an idea. Colt for years has had in its vault an all steal double action 9mm that it originally was going to enter into the U.S. Military trials. Why not bring out this gun with no junk cast parts and put old Colt Quality in it. People are not as stingy or as dumb as firearms manufactures think they are they would spend more money for it just because it had the Colt name on it especially if it was built to old fashion Colt Quality. But no they won’t do it because these days anything made has to have 600 per cent obscene profit on it and therefore any new models must be made with junk plastic or MIM powdered metal junk parts.
Another Idea for Colt would be to make the best 20th century 9mm ever made which was the Star Model 30. Built from solid steel forgings and built like a tank. It would go 180,000 rounds with no parts breakage as Interarms found out when they tested it before marketing it. But no it will not happen it would not bring in 600 per cent profit for the greed monger stock holders. Maybe a plasticky Star model 30, God forbid.
Story I’ve heard is that the craftsmen required to produce that kind of gun don’t exist any more, which is why there will be no more Pythons, etc. At any price.
I only partially agree with you. If Colt or any other manufacturer wanted to , yes they could make the Python again. But the greed factor, not the trained labor factor, stops them. The blind greed of the stock holders demands obscene profits and the profit level on the Python would be much lower to make it affordable even to upper end income people who by the way usually do not have guns as a hobby. There are exceptions to the rule but I am speaking in relations to the percentage of lower income people who’s hobby is firearms v/s the percentage of upper income class people that collect firearms, in other words the market is not strong enough to justify tying up the machinery and labor to produce them and still make obscene hand over fist profits.
Now in response to the premise that there is not enough old fashioned skilled labor to produce them. This is misleading as putting together a Python is not rocket science but one of training and it does not take all that time to learn. I am not passing the usual rectum gas that you find from so many that are self-anointed experts. I have worked on Pythons and I taught myself. Again it was tedious but I was only using hand tools and when I got done with hand fitting the “hand” I had done a better job than the factory that had f**ked up my gun by installing too short a hand. After I did the job right I shot the gun for years with no problem. Now if I could teach myself in one afternoon then Colt with professional instructors could easily train its workers to do the same but you see that costs money and the blind greed of stock holders would never allocate such resources even it meant profits and more loyal for life customers in the future. Stock holders know they can rape the consumer with cheaply made plasticky stuff and make high obscene profits hand over fist so why bother with a big project to make a finely crafted firearm. Sad to say it does not make good greed rip off business sense.
Reply
Glock needs to out Glock themselves these days. Every other major mfg has pulled Glock’s number and has now eclipsed and surpassed it with the same design principles.
Everybody surpassed it in some way. Nobody did a complete job
a match 1911 with no mag well…. This is why you’re broke Colt. You’re about 85% of the way there.
I submit Colt is broke for reasons that have nothing to do with model selection. Having been kicked around the corporate raider block and used as an ATM, combined with such (we know now) poor decisions as to throwing everything on the military side while turning away from the civilian side (until the military side crashed) are much more central.
As for the Competition Model, while I wouldn’t go without a magwell, that’s not true of most people. so they made the decision to get the price point down by skipping a $50 part. That’s probably not a bad decision, since so many buyers are more concerned with the bottom line.
I dunno. As mentioned in the write-up, I think it’s missing a handful of critical items before it can be considered a competition pistol. Really, it’s way closer to a run-of-the-mill, standard 1911 than to something that would be used in competition. IMHO the primary change they made on it to [apparently] make it competition-ready was to put “Competition” in its name.
My son in law bought a blued Colt Government Competition 1911 had it for 3 weeks and only shot at indoor range and cleaned and lubed after each session. He had it cased and took it out two weeks later and it was fully rusted. I mean thick rust and almost everywhere on the blued areas. He had gun shop send it to Colt and they said he must have thrown it in a puddle. How irritating is that a guy forks over $900 bucks for what he thinks is a quality gun and it’s a piece of junk, but then gets insulted as well. 5 weeks later he’s still waiting for it to come back. They must use the cheapest steel out there or not properly treat it. His older Berretta and Rugers never even had a hint of rust stored in the same way
Despite the ignorant comments, Colt makes great 1911’s. While I’m glad to see they’re updating their line and pricing they need to come up with something new if they want to pull themselves out of this hole they’re in.
I would mostly agree with you. I have seen some really sorry examples even of high end 1911 guns costing thousands that were nothing more than high end snob guns that did not even work. But Colt could do better If they stopped using junk MIM cast parts too, then I myself would probably buy one of their newly made guns.
Everybody uses MIM parts and Colt uses less than any of the others (3 parts). Even Wilson Combat uses MIM parts in their 1911’s and the fact that they are guaranteed for life should quell anyone’s fears. There’s nothing wrong with MIM other than the stigma everyone wrongly clings to. Not all of them are bad either:
http://www.gunnuts.net/2013/03/18/the-truth-about-mim/
Not so, there are a few companies like Detonics and Seecamp that say they know MIM is junk and unreliable and that is why the proudly say they do not use them. I recently read of yet another Glock like Clone last week that is also stating they refuse to us MIM cast parts as well. If you understand how this trash is made you will understand that it is only propaganda that they could ever make this junk last. The voids left over in the manufacturing process by melting out the plasticky granules mixed into the cheap junk powdered metal leave even bigger voids in the metal parts than traditional castings do and even traditional castings if not over engineered have a tendency to shatter under sudden impact or shock or stress beyond what they were designed to withstand. Castings = Junk was true during WWII when the Germans started using them, later when Ruger started marketing low budget econograde guns and are still pure junk to this very day even if they are not MIM.
And by the way “Gun Nuts” are paid prostitutes of the Gun Industry I would sooner believe Kim Jong-un
http://a3.files.biography.com/image/upload/c_fill,cs_srgb,dpr_1.0,g_face,h_300,q_80,w_300/MTIwNjA4NjM0MjAzODMzODY4.jpg
There’s plenty of high quality MIM that is as good as high end investment casting, which can be as good or even better than forgings in some cases. There are lots of parts where this is more than sufficient to easily last a long, busy lifetime of use. As was mentioned in another thread, MIM is used in the manufacture of jet turbine parts, vehicle crankshafts, and other things that we depend on every single day and that see more stress and use hours than most firearm parts.
However (in response mainly to John Howes) not everyone uses MIM (or cast) parts. The 1911s that don’t are usually expensive, though, with Dan Wesson likely coming in at the lower end of the price spectrum for a 1911 with zero MIM, zero cast, everything forged and/or machined from bar stock.
And to jlp, none of that is a requirement of MIM. Metal quality is up to the manufacturer. Powdered metals aren’t to be looked down on as a category, either, as some of the absolute best knife steel like S30V and ELMAX start life as powders, and Inconel and some other super alloys often do as well. And the Ruger magnum revolvers have long-since maintained a reputation for handling the hottest loads possible, and the company is renowned for the quality of its castings. As an example, many reloading manuals include high power “Ruger only” loads, and if you check the websites of the ammo manufacturers who really push the boundaries of +P+ sorts of high pressure, heavy bullet loadings, they’ll often provide a short list of firearms that can be trusted to hold up to it. For example, from Underwood RE safe firearms for a +P+ .44 Mag load: “Ruger Red Hawk, Ruger Super Red Hawk, Ruger Super Blackhawk or Vaquero, Freedom Arms Model 83, Taurus Raging Bull, Colt Anaconda, and Dan Wesson Revolvers.” Buffalo Bore provides basically the same list, making it very clear that you CANNOT shoot these loads in a Smith & Wesson. With its forged frame. Ruger claims they tested both ways and that the investment cast frames handle the heavy recoil better. Whether that’s true or not, their castings are as good as it gets and the guns obviously hold up to serious abuse better than nearly anything else out there.
You sound like an MIM cast salesman. First off Ruger guns do last, I never said they did not but you neglected to say why they last. They last because Ruger was smart enough to over-engineer them. Ruger was no dummy that’s for sure as he new he was working with inferior metal and had to compensate in the design of his guns. Those companies that followed his lead and then made guns that were not over engineered had their parts go snap, crackle and pop and believe me I owned some of these turds and could quote you chapter and verse on their failures. The point is that given the same heat treatment and same metal thickness and same engineering, in other words not cheating to make castings look good, the double heat treated forging is superior to the casting.
You mentioned powdered metal in knives. I do not pretend to be a knife expert but at the club last week I read an article in Blade Magazine that told of the inferiority of knives made from powdered metal. They in no way were as good or resisted breakage or stayed as sharp depending on what powdered metal we are speaking of and the manufacturing process. Off the top of my head I would have to go back and quote from the entire article but the main premise was that whenever you make a cheap ass short cut don’t expect the same quality or longevity or even pride of ownership.
I would like to quote from a recent discovery of a forged sword dug up recently in England that was thousands of years old. It was forged and heat treated just as well if not better than the Germans did to their 98 Mauser guns in the last two world wars. The sword was soft on the inside (to resist shattering like a cheap ass casting will do when it receives impact or stress) and the sword had high heat treatment toward the edge for strength and then another separate heat treatment for the edge to keep it sharp. Now lets face facts they made castings back then to but they did not make weapons out of junk castings because they new they would not last and that was thousands of years ago. The same is true today, try dropping a cast steel weapon on concrete and unless the casting is very thick (over-engineered) expect it to shatter or crack.
One more point of cheap ass castings. I have seen some cheap cast guns (Rossi comes to mind) that rusted right through the side wall of the receiver something I have never seen in an old fashioned forged receiver gun. My point is that with all the microscopic air holes (porosity) castings suck up moisture like a sponge and also in my own experience every junk cast gun I ever owned, if not made of stainless, had to be smothered in oil and grease to prevent rusting and pitting. Again showing that when you cut corners to make money don’t expect the same quality weapon, its just not going to happen. The Germans when they built their South American Contract Mauser actually found out that by giving them a special heat treat that the forged receiver was resistant to rusting something no casting I have ever seen made of non-stainless was capable of no matter how hard they made it because of the porosity.
And lets not forget pride of ownership. Having to look a gun that has a lot of porosity makes one green around the gills just looking at it. I have pulled the bolt back on a Ruger M77 and about fainted when I looked at the bolt lug raceways and all the ugly porosity staring back at me. For people unfamiliar with the old fashioned smooth as glass rifles of yesteryear, read that 98 Mauser , that is not a problem because they do not know what quality is because they have never seen much less owned quality. Does it matter to a deer when you blast him, no, but do you have the same pride of ownership, no, not if you are familiar with quality guns which few people are these days are as they will tell you rifles with plasticky receivers (new FN Scar) are the most wonderful miracles on earth.
“Everybody uses MIM parts and Colt uses less than any of the others (3 parts).”
Dan Wesson doesn’t
I had one guy tell me how great MIM cast parts were and his Kimber broke a slide stop on the first box of ammo. Needless to say he now does not carry a gun with MIM cast parts. Enough said, the parts are trash.
I’m a what?
Damn yall talk alot…I think the colt competition is a good deal
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