Post-Columbine, some high-profile examples of law enforcement interdiction of active shooters that came under critical scrutiny include:
Sandy Hook Elementary School, Newtown, Connecticut (December 14, 2012). After murdering his mother at home, 20-year-old Adam Lanza kills 26 victims at the nearby elementary school, including 20 children between six and seven years of age and six adult staff members. Though law enforcement faced initial criticism for its delayed (six-minute) response, a review by the Connecticut Police Chiefs Association determines that their actions were appropriate, as chaos at the scene led to impression of “exterior threats,” which later turned out to be a worried parent.
Pulse Nightclub, Orlando, Florida (June 12, 2016). An ISIS-inspired attacker murders 49 people and wounds 53 during a mass shooting that turned into a hostage situation. Gunman advises police that he has improvised explosive devices. Standoff lasted three hours, as gravely wounded victims awaited rescue. Police response is roundly criticized.
Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, Parkland, Florida (February 14, 2018). Teen gunman slaughters 14 students and three adults. An available, armed school-resource officer, Broward County Sheriff’s Deputy Scot Peterson, refused to enter the school after hearing the gunfire and is still facing 11 charges, including felony child neglect.
The FBI’s definition of an “active shooter” describes “one or more individuals actively engaged in killing or attempting to kill people in a populated area.” In a just-released report, the bureau designated 61 incidents in 2021 as active-shooter attacks; 30 attackers were ultimately apprehended by law enforcement, 14 were killed by police, 11 took their own lives, four were killed by armed citizens, one died in a motor-vehicle accident, and one remains at large.
According to the FBI, between 2000 and 2013, 66.9 percent of active-shooter incidents ended before police arrived; 69.8 percent ended in five minutes or less, and 36.5 percent ended in two minutes or less. The era of 1970s Dog Day Afternoon-style hostage standoffs is over. While police negotiators continue to play a critical role, the criminal paradigm shift to mass-murderers armed with high-powered rifles requires an evolution from painstakingly slow and methodical “law enforcement clears” (employing ballistic shields) to addressing the exigency in a more deliberative, committed, and rapid fashion.
Dynamic-entry tactics have existed for years. I was trained on them while serving on an FBI SWAT team and while assigned to the FBI’s Hostage Rescue Team throughout the 1990s; I headed the FBI’s Crisis Management Program in New York City during the 2000s. Dynamic-entry tactics incorporate the constructs of speed, surprise, violence of action, and a failsafe breach (either mechanical or explosive).
These tactics require additional training and resources and introduce additional risks to officers, but this is where we are today. Threats evolve. Law enforcement must counter them, no matter the cost in resources or the imperiling of our own lives. We simply must rush to the “sound of the guns.”
In this context, one of the most damaging and frankly nauseating explanations offered by police in the wake of the Uvalde attack came in response to a question from CNN’s Wolf Blitzer on Thursday. Blitzer’s guest, Texas DPS lieutenant Chris Olivarez, made the stunning admission that “if they [police] proceeded further without knowing where the suspect was at, they could have been shot, they could have been killed.”
For those who understand the business of hostage rescue, that statement made us wince. Cops are certainly not “machines”—they are human beings like everyone else—but they must master the process of managing their fears in the face of danger. Franklin D. Roosevelt said it best: “Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the assessment that something else is more important than fear.” If we cannot assume those risks, then who will save helpless innocents?
— James A. Gagliano in Police Must Rush to the Sound of the Guns
Yeah, that’s the ticket. Police screwing up faster.
Can someone, or group, do nothing faster than before?
Until people get serious about protecting the public i.e. hardening schools, taking crazy people out of circulation, actual serious punishment for the miscreants, etc. leave the rest of us the f**k alone!! We’ll protect ourselves, you just try to get your sh!t together!!
Okay, this WAS a newer, “properly hardened” school building that relied on doors being locked, not propped open. When Plan A fails it’s kinda important to have a Plan B… as it turns out, the Keystone Kops shouldnt be that plan.
“When Plan A fails it’s kinda important to have a Plan B”
It’s a must. The failure should be noted. Every school should be studying every single failure point beginning with missed opportunities of prevention and ending with missed opportunities of eliminating the threat.
Has the moron that propped the door open been FIRED? And prosecuted. I’d bet much “feelings their pain”/etc.
The problem in Uvalde, as well any with almost any school district or university police department, the cops ARE of the Keystone variety, or worse.
Sam I Am When a properly trained SWAT team deploys, they don’t screw up. But then again, Mr Murphy always gets a say.
The problems seems to be at what point do they deploy? They need to be in there 10 minutes ago.
Depends what they are deploying to. A man was swatted due to a gaming dispute. His tormentor has the wrong address, and when the swat team arrived, it shot and killed the occupant who, in the middle of the night, went to answer the door with a shotgun in his hand. He never even had a chance to open the door–he was shot through a window. The police were found (of course) to be without fault. There have been a number of similar incidents.
Perhaps reasonable minds may differ, but I see a big distinction between responding to a private dwelling and responding to a known hostage situation, namely, a school.
With a private residence, relying merely on an anonymous phone call, cops should (I would like to emphasis “should”) proceed with caution.
With a school situation, it is known that there are children inside and if there is some sort of commotion or mention of a shooter, cops should proceed aggressively instead of standing around, mainly keeping parents from rescuing their children. If the cops are pxxping in their pants with anxiety with the safety of children and my child endangered, I will proceed to do my best to rescue my child and as many others as possible. Yes, I may be shot but I have lived a significant portion of my life. My child has not had a chance to even finish school. I have had my chance at changing the world. My child and the other children have not.
No one wants to be shot. That said, one assumes certain onerous duties upon raising their hand to become a police officer and if they are unwilling to assume those duties, they should definitely seek other employment.
Cops have no problem with speed and surprise when doing a no-knock warrant – even when they’re in the wrong place.
Sometimes, you have to do something, right or wrong. A school shooting is one of those places.
So, you locate the shooter, you go in guns blazing, and you take him out – incidentally taking out a hostage or some such. Sh1t happens. Sorry, but the hostage’s life was already forfeit, you need to concentrate on the other innocents that you did save.
Sitting on your thumb will never be the correct answer when there is an active shooter, or even a shooter who is only threatening to kill. You take him out. End of story.
Paul,
You are not wrong. If our police showed half as much “gung ho” spirit about taking down an active shooter as they do to no-knock warrants, writing tickets, or eating donuts, i’d have some respect, but unfortunately, they don’t.
Police have a job to do, but the Supreme Court told them they don’t have to, and their unions protect them from having to do it, so they don’t. Just like that execrable POS, Scott Israel, the Uvalde PD should be shamed and fired for their incompetence, laziness, and cowardice.
Oh, and I forgot “malfeasance” – since it is documented that a number of Uvalde PD went in to rescue THEIR OWN children, while they kept the parents outside. F*** ’em.
How about armed drones with cameras? Could be fast and surgical.
Steve that would be slightly impractical in a school or other building. Not to mention you still need a human to aim the firearm.
Taking out armed drones, having an expendable drone to look through a window and assess where a shooter is/what they are doing is valuable and can speed decisions where people are bleeding out/waiting to be shot again…….or give the police more to see and not act on (hopefully not)
I have no problem with using a drone to try to assess the situation. But an “armed drone” is no better than sending in the SWAT team. IN fact worse. SWAT is trained to take action in hostage situations. The drone is not a good idea. It is too easy to come up with “collateral damage”.
Agreed, the only time I can see armed drones are more in dealing with terrorists (actual type not the “angry white male supremacist” nonsense that DHS pushes) and even then expendable explosive type comes to mind more than remote gun camera. Even then very situation specific, barricaded in a position to harm others and willing to continue fighting and little to no risk of collateral damage (read hostages/bystanders)
The need for intelligence as to what is going on inside the place where the hostages have been taken is necessary for a good outcome. This is where a sniper is employed. Snipers are not just for shooting but for gathering information using their powerful scopes and binoculars.
Maybe not so impractical as you think, Walter. Bust out a window, search the room with a drone, one or two humans follow it in if it’s empty. Now, you physically control a room, from which you might follow the sound of gunfire. Meanwhile, move to another room, bust out the window, and repeat. You might leave empty rooms behind, as the situation dictates – keep busting out windows and searching until you locate your target. If/when you find rooms with open doors, the drone will be free to search further down corridors, and into any other rooms with open doors.
Use the tools that are available. If there’s a drone and a drone operator available, put them to use!! That is NOT to say that anyone should sit on their thumbs while waiting for a drone to arrive on scene!!
Paul busting out the window will spur the gunman to start killing his hostages. Using a drone to survey the situation from OUTSIDE is not a bad idea provided the drone is small and distant enough so that the change of the gunmen or gun man seeing is is small. The cameras today have telescopic lenses. Shooting through glass will cause the bullet to DEFLECT. Armed drones shooting through glass will get hostages killed one way or another.
Nah, they save that quick-violence-of-action stuff for wrong addresses, pet dogs and sleeping babies. You know, the real threats to our civilized world.
New toys never work out. In months/years when it next might be needed wil find that:
– batteries are dead
– the one guy (or no one) that can run it is not available.
– it’s locked up so no one steals it.
– hasn’t been run since ____ and is broken/need mucho $ from the Feds to fix it/Trumps fault.
They thought with “barricaded shooter” the perp wanted a few million dollars and plane ride to Cuba? The situations have changed since the 70s.
actually … every single adult working in schools should be required to have a concealed weapons permit.
if they cannot pass a background check they should not be teaching children.
i’m not saying they all need to carry.
just the possibility that every adult is armed ( and some will be )
will deter this kind of behavior by evil people.
especially after a few get killed in the process of trying to murder people in schools.
Since the odds are overwhelming perps are not going to have any permit then why should their targeted victims need a permit? The lunacy behind a mandate to have a special permit to carry a firearm under a coat or in a purse is as silly as it sounds. Such permits tie the hands of the law abiding and that benefits criminals. Because of permits criminals who shop parking lots know firearms are left in vehicles by owners complying with permit laws.
Permit or no permit when the school policy for employees is lock firearms in a vehicle trunk then everyone is a soft target…obviously. Pass a 4473? Concealed carry included.
Mandatory that at all gov’t schools a minimum of 20% of employees “on campus” are carrying on body at all times. Same for on field trips.
I don’t know that’s feasible. There are a lot of good people who just won’t fight, much less shoot someone. You’re not going to get everyone armed, that’s a fact of life.
I think it enough to allow staff to be armed, and to offer them a bonus pay if they actually carry while on duty. Just add a 90 second ‘roll call’ to the morning routine to see who is actually armed, put a check beside the names, and those who are armed get an extra $5.00 tacked onto their pay. Doesn’t sound like much – but 180 day school year @ $5.00/day comes out to $900. Let’s round up a bit, to make that $1,000 per year.
Paul, Good people? Maybe, Cowards definitely. It is a responsibility of each citizen to protect one another. No one is proposing that everyone be armed. We are proposing that anyone who wished to be armed and is not prohibited by law to possess a firearm should be allowed to be armed.
merlin,
Sorry, can’t agree. No everyone is willing/able to become a competent shooter, and NO ONE should be required to carry a gun. To say that the skills that make a competent teacher (of which we have WAAYY too few), are NOT the skills that make a competent shooter/sheepdog. While I would absolutely support the right of a teacher or staff member (willing to put in the time and get the training) carrying, I would never require it.
Yes, let those who are willing carry, but put our efforts on hardening schools, TRAINING teachers/staff in responses (other than carry; that should be a separate program), and providing armed response. Numerous veterans on this forum have indicated their willingness to volunteer to provide security, and if we have enough money to piss away $40 BILLION “arming” the Ukranians, we have enough money to pay for school resource officers who are ACTUALLY THERE, and have decent training.
“Educators” are already “mandatory reporters”, so . . . why aren’t they reporting?????? Nearly every perpetrator of school shootings over the past decade has had numerous “red flags” which were ignored. These troubled folks need, and should get, medical/psychiatric help – too bad dacian the stupid, MinorIQ, and their Leftist/fascist pals (including the execrable Warren Court) killed mandatory institutionalization for the mentally ill.
We need to focus on responses that will actually work, not wishcasting like “ban all AR-15s”. Arming teachers on a voluntary basis could be part of that, but requiring teachers to be armed is just stupid.
“…competent teacher (of which we have WAAYY too few)…”
On one hand, I have to agree with Lamp. We have enough trouble requiring teachers to be competent at teaching. I mean, if a teacher doesn’t care enough to actually do their teaching job well, how can we expect that teacher to care enough to be a front line defender?
But then on the other hand, giving the sjw teacher crowd a choice–arm up or bow out–will surely thin the ranks of the ones that we want thinned out for other reasons. They can go back to being social influencers and “journalists” and flip burgers at fast food joints whenever that dries up, to pay off their student loans. Or move to Venezuela.
hawkeye,
Cold. But probably accurate.
California law bans teachers, or anyone else with a CCW, from being armed on a campus, the only exception being LEO.
Man’s laws are not in the same category as the ten commandments. They can be changed. Just because the Peepuls Republic of Kallyfornicadia is hoplophobe country doesn’t mean that the other states have to follow them down the rat hole.
The real problem is that we don’t involuntarily confine people in mental health hospitals unless they are suicidal, homicidal or catatonic. Just plain ordinary crazy gets you 3 hots and a cot for 72 hours then kicked loose with a bottle of meds and instructions to return for more when those run out. Of course, being mentally impaired the individual follows those instructions dutifully. We wouldn’t do that to someone with a broken leg, why should we do differently with someone who is mentally ill?
You haven’t witnessed bureaucratic insanity until you have watched a black moo-moo clad judge attempt to discuss the fine points of judicially prescribed civil rights to an individual who’s is sitting with his arms and legs twisted tightly together, while rocking back and forth crooning to himself in some tuneless manner. It’s so ridiculous in the Peepuls Repubelik that in addition to having a lawyer from the public defender’s office represent the mentally ill person, there is also another attorney present who is the “patient’s advocate” to check up on the public defender to make sure he is exercising all the patient’s rights. Were I a public defender under those circumstances I would quit my job. If, as a lawyer, I didn’t do everything ethical in my power to see that every single right was fully extended to my client, then I should be disbarred. Every public defender I ever knew always represented his clients to the best of his ability. That said, some had less ability than others, but that didn’t mean that they didn’t give it their all. We all want Clarance Darrow at our table, but unfortunately not everyone able to pass the bar exam is a highly capable trial attorney. There are those who are merely adequate and some who haven’t been screened out yet who should have followed another line of endeavor. It’s not a perfect world. We try to do the best we can and sometimes we fail. If we fail at a crucial moment, perhaps it is time to reconsider our choice of life’s work. That’s why there are appellate courts, to review the work of judges and attorney to try to ensure that the accused or the patient’s rights have been preserved.
You guys posted the guidelines for “Averting Targeted School Violence” put out by the Secret Service. I think it was linked last year as well. Do we have an official after action report to list everywhere “the system” failed? That should be a requirement. We shouldn’t be making the same mistake more than once. We need two more sets of guidelines. One for hardening targets and one for what to do once the threat is near or in the school. Do these exist?
We have enough gun laws they need to be enforced
Sandy hook was herendous but the mother was murdered by a crazy son
I own guns and mine have nothing to do with killing children or anyone else
They aren’t trying to solve school shooter issues by going after your guns. They’re being disingenuous, as usual. They’re just using this as an opportunity to do what they’ve been trying to do anyway which is disarming everyone outside of law enforcement and gangbangers.
“Ban the 9mm! It says so, right on the box: Parabellum. Prepare for WAR! The 9mm is a weapon of war that will blow your whole lung right out of your body! No one needs a weapon of war!”
The President of the United States said it so it must be true. Right? Bueller? Bueller?
“No one needs a weapon of war!”
I think you just hit on a clever justification for war: protect the supply chain for weapons of war.
Why is it those thinking themselves 2A defenders seem to focus entirely on self-defense. 2A presumes war will evolve between the people and government. 2A is all about citizens having weapons of war equal or better than government. 2A is about war.
There ARE solutions to all this madness but we cannot get there for so many people thinking it’s the guns’ fault.
Banning guns or even specific calibers is NOT the answer. Do that ignores the problem.
Police Need not to take criminal illegal orders from FBI and Deep State dirt-bags
Everything should be local including (all) funding. However, the locals don’t have the resources to put together a comprehensive assessment like the federal government can. This is how our government should work. The fed should put together the assessments and recommendations, and it should be up to the local jurisdictions and states to implement it. They’re free to implement their own system, and the citizens are free to vote them into or out of office.
BS. The Feds can’t find their ass when playing pocket pool. The FBI is a joke. Secret Service is all about hookers and booze.
Perhaps you’re thinking to have the Postal Service gun bunnies take care of this.
So I looked up gun bunnies… Unfortunately, no one looks like that at my local post office.
On a serious note, I’m sure someone from the private sector could put together better assessments and recommendations. Realistically, that would likely be ignored by the school systems and local governments. If it’s put together by the federal government and distributed to all localities, then there’s a quasi official rule of thumb to fall back on. That doesn’t stop localities from making their own assessments, but at least we would have a starting point.
Dude, the NRA did it.
https://www.nraschoolshield.org/
Most systems probably wouldn’t touch anything from the NRA with a ten foot pole. It would be political suicide for Dems to acknowledge that the NRA is trying to help the situation. The Dems have already identified them as the reason we have school shooters.
Let’s be completely transparent and painfully honest: government law enforcement has demonstrated several times that they often will NOT neutralize a spree killer in a timely fashion. That is a simple and indisputable fact. Why government law enforcement often fails to neutralize a spree killer in a timely fashion is a moot point.
Given the above indisputable fact, all legislators and policy makers who deem it illegal for adults to be armed for self-defense are accessories to the spree killers who murder us. And, since it is a serious criminal felony to be an accessory to murder, all such legislators and policy makers should face the same exact punishment/justice that our criminal-justice system hands out to anyone else who is an accessory to murder.
“if they [police] proceeded further without knowing where the suspect was at, they could have been shot, they could have been killed.”
“All societies are based on rules to protect pregnant women and young children. All else is surplusage, excrescence, adornment, luxury or folly which can – and must – be dumped in emergency to preserve this prime function. As racial survival is the only universal morality, no other basic is possible. Attempts to formulate a “perfect society” on any foundation other than “Women and children first!” is not only witless, it is automatically genocidal. Nevertheless, starry-eyed idealists (all of them male) have tried endlessly – and no doubt will keep on trying.” – Robert A. Heinlein, The Notebooks of Lazarus Long
Cliff,
My only beef with that Heinlein quote is that all of the “starry-eyed idealists” are DEFINITELY not male. Even a significant number of the biologically male are not “male”, cf., dacian the stupid and MinorIQ.
Speed. Sigh. Reacting after the fact is always a shit sandwich unless you can move faster than life. Hope is not a strategy. Obviously, speed reduces deaths. But that’s not the real issue is it. Prevention beats Intervention and Postvention. An ounce vs. pounds…
I could be wrong. But I believe it was the FBI’s hostage rescue team, that assassinated Vicki Weaver as she was holding her baby in Ruby Ridge Idaho.
Also the FBI employing criminals black and white like Whitey Bulger. And black panther informers. Both of which committed crimes including murdering people. All the while the FBI monitored their activities.
And if the libertarian historian that I listen to is correct. President Trump was the near victim of two possible assassination attempts. Planned and possibly going to be conducted by FBI CIA or a combination of government entities.
About the only thing left of the credibility of the FBI is possibility their research division.
I have no faith in government. Period. I am my own 1st responder. The USA has turned into a dystopian nightmare…
Yes the cops took “off time” from doing “nothing” to going to the school and resuming “doing nothing”.
FOOD FOR THOUGHT THAT ONLY SANE PEOPLE CAN FATHOM:
If the age to buy all firearms including second hand ones was at least 21 years of age most of the school mass shootings and other mass shootings would never have happened. But the problem is the paranoid Far Right cannot understand just plain common sense laws.
Of course all that is about to change and soon. This time it looks like the prostitute Republican Congressmen are being forced to do something to help reduce the madness and chaos and mass murder.
The Police Chief Moron needs to be sent to prison and put in a cell with the worst of the rapists and murders. What goes around comes around.
🤪AnYoNe WhO dOsEn’T aGrEe WiF mE aM iNsAnE🤪
A most pathetic statement, not surprised it came from the lil’pedotard though. 🤔
Pound sand you loser.
My youngest son would be DEAD if he wasn’t allowed to purchase his rifle before his 21st birthday.
I’d call you a pathetic POS, but everyone here on TTAG already know that.
21 will turn into 25 if you allow the politicians who hate guns and who hate gun owners to raise the age limit for a firearms purchase. Just keep in mind that these are the same people that believe illegal aliens and 16 year olds should be allowed to vote in elections. Killers will always find a way to kill. All you have to do is look at the Happy Land dance club Massacre from 1990. An impulsive and drunk killer managed to kill 89 people in under 10 minutes with no pre-planning and a budget of under $20. Where there is a will there will always be a way. I also have to point out that the highest body count battles that have ever occurred in history happened prior to the invention of semi-automatic or automatic firearms.
We really need an edit button. I deleted several sentences while correcting punctuation in my above post prior to hitting send
Since you flunked phycology classes, assuming you ever even had any, you would know that the vicious, male, naked ape does not even become fully mature mentally until age 25. Your damn straight they should raise the age of purchasing a firearm to 25 years of age.
So, you wish my son had died before his 21st birthday.
You’re a total POS lil’dtard.
Oh and besides, make the min voting/alcohol/legal marijuana/military service age whatever you propose the age should be for legal firearm purchase, THEN came back to discuss the restrictions to the 2nd A.
Until then F off!
Guess what? The answer will STILL be no.
‘……..make the min voting/alcohol/legal marijuana/military service age whatever you propose the age should be for legal firearm purchase….. ‘
Add hormone treatments/gender reassignment/signing of legal agreements……….
You played the ’emotionally immature’ card moron🤪, not me.
Brings up all sorts of issues that need to be resolved BEFORE 2nd A rights.
Get out there and tilt all those windmills/established norms. First step is leaving mommies basement.
And then 30, and then 35, and why not 50? How about 64? I could easily see you trying to make the argument that by the time someone retires they’ve contributed enough to society that we can trust them with a fundamental Civil Right and that is when we should allow them to buy a gun. If someone is old enough to decide that they’re no longer a man and want to become a woman or if they’re old enough to vote or old enough to be drafted and forced to fight in a war then why shouldn’t they be allowed to have firearms? People on your side make the argument that they’re not old enough to buy beer at 18 but I have to point out that most states allowed 18 year olds to buy beer until the feds twisted their arms by threatening to cut off Highway funds if States didn’t raise the drinking age to 21. Why is 21 a magic number? You’re claiming the magic numbers 25 . Once you get 25 you’re going to claim the magic number is even higher so why should we listen to you ? Even when my children weren’t fully mature I expected them to behave properly, to contribute to the household in the form of doing chores, and to obey laws and their parents.
He’s right, you know.
None of us have ever had a phycology class.
So, dacian the stupid, you are advocating increasing the age of majority (voting, driving, draft, ability to contract) to age 25??? Not saying I agree, but I could at least compromise on that, IF it were applied across the board. If someone 18, or 21, is too immature to own a gun, they are too immature to vote, drive a car, buy alcohol, sign a contract, etc.
I’d suggest you remove your head from your fourth point of contact, but the resulting suction would likely create a black hole and swallow the Earth. You are too stupid to insult, dacian the stupid.
Which classes?
But he also wants to lower the voting age as a lead in to lower or eliminate the age of consent. He has to keep the NAMBLA members of his antifa cell happy.
dumpcian, my ex has a degree in psychology, as well as physical therapy and something else. I forget. My sister has a degree in psychology and a master’s that required her to live in a Thai Buddhist temple to count tree frogs, tag sea turtles off the Baja peninsula and then she had to live on a boat for month while she dove on the Great Barrier Reef to measure coral. In the real world they are two of the most stupid humans I’ve ever met. That said, both admit the psychology degrees were a waste of time and money.
Getting married, voting, going to war, driving a motor vehicle on public highways, entering into contracts, becoming politicians, entering any profession affecting peoples’ liberty, safety, health, financial well being, Okay, I would agree with you. It is either you are an adult for everything or not an adult for everything. If you can go to war and carry a gun to defend the country, then you should be able to carry a gun to defend yourself. If you can carry a machine gun to defend the country, then you are capable to carry a machine gun in civilian life. We can’t have degrees of adulthood. It is an all or nothing proposition. There are no semi-adults. We don’t have a test for adulthood, unfortunately, so the next best thing is an age test. Let’s make it old enough so that most folks have had time to grow up.
@dacian
“If the age to buy all firearms including second hand ones was at least 21 years of age most of the school mass shootings and other mass shootings would never have happened. ”
Thats a lie.
That’s how he rolls.
Democrats don’t want to stop school shootings. In fact, they want the death toll to be as high as possible. Then they want to use it as leverage to pass ineffective gun-ban bills that criminals will ignore.
Democrats plainly told us this when earlier this week, they blocked the Republican School Safety Bill named after two Parkland victims.
“Hardening schools would’ve done nothing to prevent this shooting. In fact, there were guards and police officers already at the school yesterday when the shooter showed up,” Schumer said. “More guns won’t protect our children.”
Gee, dacian the stupid, are those the same cops you and your BurnLootMurder/ANTIFA friends/goons have trashed for years, and want to defund??
What is your solution (other than “confiscate all the guns”)????
Y’all Leftist/fascist are just alike – you have supposedly identified ‘all the problems’ (incorrectly, but whatever), but the ONLY ‘solution’ you offer is “universal background checks” and “confiscate guns”, which DEMONSTRABLY do not work. Go f*** yourself, dacian the stupid. Go back to your circle jerk, you Leftist/fascist idiot.
A vid ‘only same people can fathom’……..
https://youtu.be/Uxslqt0graM
See what I did there lil’pedotard? 🤣
So the jackass would illegally murder only when he was of legal age to buy a firearm at 21? The same fuck nugget that shoots his grandmother in the face? Sorry to tell you, laws and age restrictions don’t stop evil people from doing evil.
People smoke and drink regardless of age restrictions. Get high, drunk and then drive, all illegally and under age. And that’s no comparison to this heinous act. It’s about what’s right and wrong. What makes people do right and not wrong have little to do with public laws, rather than private upbringing, family values and moral respect.
dacian, the Dunderhead, nothing you have proposed is “common sense”. I’ve discredited your proposals on multiple occasions.
Walter,
dacian the stupid gets b****-slapped on the daily . . . have you ever noticed it to have ANY impact on his (lack of) “thinking”??? Nah, me neither. dacian has never had an original thought in his life, never ONCE questioned the ‘revealed wisdom’ of his Leftist/fascist indoctrinators, and couldn’t think his way out of a paper sack. He is an oxygen thief, and an embarrassment to the name of our species. dacian has never been ‘sapient’ in his entire, worthless life.
A few trained teacher with firearms is FAR better then even SEAL Team 6 rolling with a 10 minute ETA. 🤔
The staff are the first responders, AND have MORE skin in the game then those rolling to the location.
Guess what. After a few school shooters get taken out by armed staff, the frequency of school shootings will go down, drastically.
POS criminals don’t like it when their intended victims are armed and shooting back.
Whodathunkit? Cooper!
“If violent crime is to be curbed, it is only the intended victim who can do it. The felon does not fear the police, and he fears neither judge nor jury. Therefore what he must be taught to fear is his victim.”
Hire vets, each school gets a four person ‘fire team’ of ‘resource officers’ military combat experienced veterans on duty all the time during school hours/events because these actually understand the concept of sudden-swift-violent. They understand an active shooter threat is a threat, period, and reaction needs to be immediate on scene then and not later like civilian police forces are trained for.
quote—————Guess what. After a few school shooters get taken out by armed staff, the frequency of school shootings will go down, drastically.———–quote
Pure nonsense. When a nut case comes in shooting he shoots people outside as well as inside and its just the body count that is in question.
Teachers have long hours and make little money these days, they do not have the money to pay outrageous prices on guns and ammo and few have the time or even access to a gun range within a short driving distance. None have combat training and few have the mind set of a viscous naked ape cop who lusts after cruelty, murder and sadism.
Teachers value human life and would hesitate to kill, they do not lust for the next gun fight as cops do.
Those same naked ape cops that you want to give the right to control our firearms to?
And what underpaid teachers? I retired from a school district. The teachers parking lot is full of mercedes, bmw, volvo, etc.
Lowering the body count is important to all but you. The more dead children the better you like it. It pushes your agenda.
Texas passed the Protection of Children Act in 2013 that provides a training program for those who wish to participate as School Marshalls, an extension of law enforcement. Grant monies are available to defray the costs.
On Wednesday, Jacob Albarado, who evacuated children from Robb Elementary School, wrote on Facebook that schools needed more armed guards.
To date please list the names of all of the School shooters that have had combat training and experience.
Have you ever heard the old Axiom that says “Can’t never did”? All I hear from your side is nothing can work except giving us what we’ve always wanted. Your side also makes the same claim about how everything would be hunky-dory in the world if only they were allowed to raise taxes even higher than they are now. Utopia is just a 100% income tax and a gun ban away……..
@dacian
I see you are still having issues with logic.
I saw on Reddit how there’s this mass attempt to disregard the statistic that more people in the US are murdered by blunt instruments (hammer, etc.) than rifles as “Facebook heresay”, and when asked to look at up they make some sort of false conclusion by not actually searching for applicable crime data and dismissing the statement out-of-hand.
Well, I mean you could make that assumption, assuming the FBI statistics are equated to “Facebook heresay”. But as seen by FBI’s aggregated crime statistics below, blunt instruments are indeed used to commit murder with more than rifles. Personal weapons (hands/feet) account for even more as means for the commission of murder.
I’ve spent the horrificly long and drawn out (5 minute) process of searching these aggregated crime statistics that many have claimed are made up–see below for references:
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-11.xls
(this is the data from 2017)
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-11.xls
(this is the data from 2018)
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-11.xls
(this is the data from 2019)
What kind of a parent names their child ‘know the facts’?
Why do you feel a pathetic need to hide behind a made-up name, pee-gee-two?
A gutless, laughably-pathetic very little boy, if you know what I mean… 😉
lol u mad bro?
Either the reading comprehension requirements were too high for the post or Mr. “PR” refers to stick to his own “heresay” (it’s hearsay, btw) and doesn’t want to admit that statistically you’re more likely to be murdered by someone’s bare hands than a rifle (based on those linked FBI stats).
You’re dang right I AM MAD!
Here is a fact, my butt… it is hurt… It is red and it is raw.
What pee-gee-2 did to me was just terrible awful things! And he did it again and again and again. 🙁
Since I have never felt the touch of a woman this was particularly unfair. 🙁 🙁
And I didn’t like it one bit… OK, maybe just a… little.
Geoff,
You’ve been on this rant for a while, now. Just FYI, this is the Internet, and Leftist/fascist trolls like dacian the stupid, MinorIQ, jsled, and our nameless, brainless, d***less troll would probably be happy to dox any one of us Constitution supporters, if they had sufficient PIE (personally identifiable information). I don’t use my “real” name (although I do us a consistent screen name), because . . . I’m not stupid. While the trolls (like our nameless, brainless, d***less troll) frequently switch names to pretend to be more numerous than they are, not putting personal information out on the Internet is just rationality.
Sorry, but you’re wrong on this one.
I am not wrong.
What pee-gee-2 did to me was terrible.
And being honest here Lamp, I think I liked it. 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁 But I don’t know because I have nothing to compare it to.
I know I come on here and brag about this woman and that woman, but they are all lies. Lies!
Are you sayin’ that my parents weren’t aliens?
There’s no way for us to know this without more info. Are you green? Have more than 2 nipples? Fur, not hair?
Is there intelligent life out there? Because there ain’t none here.
jwm,
“Is there intelligent life out there? Because there ain’t none here.”
Certainly true in respect of any comments by dacian the stupid (or MinorIQ, or our nameless, brainless, d***less troll). Leftism IS a mental disease.
This guy seemed quite credible right up until he started blathering about mass murderers shifting to high powered rifles. According to the statistics compiled by Professor John Lott, handguns and shotguns are equally popular with mass shooters as rifles. The eagerness with which media focuses on mass murders committed with rifles warps public perceptions. The disparity in media attention to these mass murders also influences mass murderers to utilize guns rather than other, even deadlier weapons such as automobiles or arson, and to use scary looking, semiautomatic rifles rather than more familiar handguns or politically correct shotguns. Mass shooters demonstrate no preference for “high powered rifles”. Most mass murders who use rifles favor small caliber, AR-15 style, .22 caliber rodent rifles. Other than the Mandalay Bay Hotel massacre in which the shooter might have employed the .308 caliber rifles that were in his possession rather than the .223 – 5.56 mm rifles with the ultra high capacity magazines and bump stocks, it has been decades since the US has experienced a mass shooting committed with a high powered rifle.
Elmer,
Obviously (which I believe was part of your point), normal “high-powered rifles” are stupid weapons to use to shoot up a school, grocery store, or mall. Heavy, cumbersome, long, and not designed for the job. Now, for a real scumbag, like the DC Shooter, they can be effective to sow terror, they are a horrible choice for a “mass shooting” in a confined area. Tactically stupid.
For concealability and ease of use, a handgun is the obvious firearm choice. Yes, a medium-power semi-automatic carbine is an option, but they are not exactly concealable. If you can carry a long gun, wouldn’t a tactical 12ga shotgun be a better option (provided you know how to do a combat reload)?
High-powered rifles are a weapon for distance. The Virginia Tech shooter managed to kill more people with two handguns than any of the school shooters using AR-15s. Simply further proof that the anti-gun fanatics, like dacian the stupid and MinorIQ, know f***-all about firearms.
All of the ideas presented here won’t work because the corrupt government won’t take action. The only way to ensure the safety of school age children is to take action yourself and remove them from the public indoctrination centers. Then you can send your child to a private school that has security or home school where you are their armed security. I’ve never heard of either one of them being shot up by a deranged madman. Anyone can do it if you have the will. You have to remove yourself from the Matrix that enslaves you.
Well then, let the $s follow the child.
Defund the federally and state funded child indoctrination centers. 🤔
Works for me. 👍
Sorry, but cops don’t run toward the sound of gunfire. They run for cover.
While using their trousers as a latrine.
If police do not want to go in, they should never try to stop a good guy with a gun(and some skin in the game – like children/grandchildren/great grandchildren). I would have fired on any LEO that wasn’t doing anything and then would not allow me to go in.
That’s the Commissar Dacian method. Motivate shirkers and malingerers with summary executions for cowardice.
It is not going to get better.
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