For some reason, finding out what gun George Zimmerman used when he shot Trayvon Martin has been harder than catching a glimpse of a Higgs Boson particle. While early reports had it as a Kel Tec, even the original police report was bereft of details. But Mas Ayoob is reporting that the neighborhood watch captain was carrying a Kel Tec PF-9 on that fateful night. For those who aren’t familiar with it, the PF-9 is a slender, highly concealable 7+1 9mm pistol. Typically selling for well under three bills, it’s easy on the wallet if not exactly a joy to shoot . . .

It’s such a popular toter’s gun, in fact, that we’ve posted three, count ’em three reviews of the tiny niney by Don Gammill, Chris Dumm and Caleb Longstreet. According to various reports, the gun was found with a full mag and only the chambered round had been fired – meaning the gun didn’t cycle after it went bang. While, as Mayoob indicates, this could be evidence of a struggle for the gun, Kel Tec haters – and they are legion – will likely have a field day. Let (even more of) the speculation commence.

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60 COMMENTS

  1. One of the reports I have seen on this incident included a witness stating that Zimmerman was on the ground, underneath Martin (with Martin hitting him) when the shot was fired. In police reports, Zimmerman was reported to have a bloody nose and blood on the back of his head, plus grass stains on his back. These reports are based on local news interviews with the witness and the police. IF these reports are correct, they would explain why the PF9 did not cycle – it was probably pressed against Martin’s body when Zimmerman fired.

    If these reports are correct, it would also explain why the police did not arrest Martin at the scene. It is interesting that the national news’ photo most often shown of Martin was taken when he was 14 – he was actually 6’2″, and a high school football player (and on a 5-day suspension from school for reasons not known) when he was shot. None of these facts are meant to condemn Martin or exonerate Zimmerman, but it is very interesting that the only place you will find them reported is on the Drudge Report and on http://www.examiner.com. The complete lack of any national reporting on these issues would be explained by the agenda the leftist media is now pushing – “concealed carry is evil, stand your ground laws are evil, mandated CCW license reciprocity is evil, guns are evil, it’s all about racism, yadda yadda….”

    • Dude, can you at least modify your repetitive post a bit more so that it fits each of these articles? I’ve been reading the same copied and pasted comment from you several times.
      Also, he was suspended for being tardy to class too many times. That is known.
      He was NOT a high school football player. He played in a youth league a few years back.
      Also, he was tall, but only weighed 140 pounds. Nickname of “Slim” fits. Not the most physically imposing guy when you take his tepid weight into account.
      Drudgereport has its own angle on all this, doesn’t mean its correct, just Right-leaning. By definition, if a bunch of African-Americans are on one side of an issue, you can bet Matt Drudge will take the opposite stance, while showing the most unflattering and threatening photos of black protesters he can find. Only black guys I’ve seen him pull for are Clarence Thomas and Herman Cain.

      • the pathetic attempts to criminalize Martin through a “school suspension” is ridiculous. This especially true when looking at Zimmerman, WHO WAS IN COLLEGE FOR 11 YEARS and did not graduate, sponging off of the free college tuition citizen in FL receive. So exactly, who is a bum between these two? Martin who had not yet had a chance yet to live, or Zimmerman, who was milking the system and daddy’s clout as a former magistrate judge?

        • I understand where you are coming from, but I don’t think either of these guys should be criminalized or tried in the court of public opinion before all the facts are known.
          I don’t know the details of Zimmerman’s life… some folks need more time than others to finish school… I won’t judge him. I can judge some of his actions leading up to the encounter, and can say without a doubt that they don’t line up with those of a responsible armed citizen.

        • “sponging off of the free college tuition citizen in FL receive”

          As a native-born Florida resident, I’d like to know where to get this “free tuition,” because I had to pay for mine.

        • sdog…did you complete 4th grade? First sentence: no capitalization of “the”; second sentence: no verb used, (you meant “is true); second sentence: “citizen” should be plural (citizens); third sentence: misplaced modifier,
          dangling participle and rambling structure. Otherwise, your statement mad little or no sense.

        • The animal that was shot was a low life peice of garbage and he had it coming.. There WAS nothing good about him you brain dead moron. Zimmerman was neighborhood watch which means he volunteered his time to patrol the neighborhood you liberal idiot..What did the animal voluteer for… NOTHING.. Go back to sleep and smoke your bong you pathetic obama lover.

      • It seems to me that in my morning read (FT, WSJ, NYT, WaPo) I read again and again a recitation of Trayvon as a good student, angelic, up against a Zimmerman who is shown via a mug shot, and tagged with an arrest, but not conviction, that happened years ago. Then I finally see in a Florida paper a recent photo of Trayvon looking, uh, nothing like the President, with gold-leafed teeth, looking heavier than 140. Nobody seems to dispute the scraped facebook wall with a friend of his asking for some weed, nor the fact that he was “@no-limit-nigga” on twitter. The whole thing seems odd. Why is the press touting a 12 and 14 year old Trayvon against a 28 yr old George…and leaving out every recent detail of Trayvon’s life. Why is his suspension stated wrongly as to cause and duration? It all seems a bit odd, or rigged. Why rig the press impressions presented? Won’t it be a big embarrassing to newspaper reputations once a more recent Trayvon is portrayed. I would think so.

        • The facebook scrape was another Trayvon Martin… (yes, there is more than one.. ) So pic isn’t valid.
          Kid was 140 pounds, so definitely slim.. but 6’3″… a lanky dude… classified as underweight by most standards. Suspended for either tardiness or having some weed on him… neither makes him sound particularly violent.
          Zimmerman is 5’9″, and weighs 250… Short … but stout to say the least. He’s either pretty strong, or one fat bastard. Maybe somewhere in between… definitely obese though, unless he’s gotten a lot fitter since his mug shot from ’05. Maybe his physical condition is the reason he didn’t try out for real to join the police?

          • Umm, no.

            The Facebook scrape is real.

            I saw it first hand, no media BS.

            He has all of his friends write RIP on the wall and the birthdays match.

            It also does have the back and forth about one of his friends needing plant from him.

        • Well we learned another thing also & thats if a black guy follows a white guy its ok for the white guy to kill him. We better get some of the big magazines & AR’s off the street before GZ goes free. Randy

    • I was torn between the PF9 and the LC9 at a recent gun show. I settled on the PF9 due the the LC9 obtrusive loaded chamber indicator, ridiculous mag disconnect safety, and unnecessary external safety. For all these lawyer inspired constraints you get the pleasure of paying more money. It a real shame because I love
      my Ruger P 95.

  3. Zimmerman must have had a second gun. We all know it is impossible to stop a threat in one shot with any caliber that doesn’t begin with .4

    • He must have used a Heizer Doubletap in .45 and hid it somewhere that the Cops couldn’t find

  4. If Zimmerman wasn’t stalking Martin, none of this would’ve happened.

    Zimmerman was getting his ass beat for being a creepy asshole. Following people around in a threatening manner will trigger a fear response and a confrontation.

    Is it self-defense if you start it?

    • Was it stalking, following, observing, searching for, etc? If stalking as in hunting why didn’t he already have his gun in hand to shoot his alleged prey as would a stalking hunter? How did the ‘prey’ end up on top of hunter punching him in the face with the stalker flat on his back? Did the prey ambush the hunter? If the hunter had a gun in hand already how did the prey manage to pin the hunter underneath him and to deliver physical blows to the hunter’s face?

      There is far more that we do not know about this case. The Courts are far from perfect and places of justice yet they are often better than judging a person in the circus media using a crystal ball.

    • Remember when the “justice” system had a principle referred to as “innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt”? Kind of a crazy idea, wasn’t it? It is SO much quicker to try and convict someone in the court of public opinion. And hey, various good leftist groups have already passed a death sentence on Zimmerman. THAT will save the state a lot of money on any investigation and trial.

      • These days, it is modern liberals that are often passing these judgements in the court of public opinion (ex: Duke players) more than modern conservatives seem too. Historically, sadly many innocent black men have been lynched by white mobs based on nothing more than white group hysteria (racism) against the black men of murder and rape of white women and girls. People can be morons.

      • Funny how they want this man murdered without any sort of trial or hearing and without knowing any facts besides what the cop hating media throws at em but theyll protest for days on end to try and save the life of a convicted murderer. (Troy Davis, Stanley “Tookie” Williams. ect)

    • Is it self-defense if you start it?

      In some circumstances, yes. Obviously, it depends on the facts. Someone being “creepy” does not necessarily give anyone else the right to beat the tar out of the “creep.” If the “creep” was in reasonable fear that his life was in danger during the immidiate moments / seconds prior to taking the kill shot, it is self defense, regardless of the fact that he may have initiated contact.

      • “If the “creep” was in reasonable fear that his life was in danger during the immidiate moments / prior to taking the kill shot, it is self defense, regardless of the fact that he may have initiated contact.”

        I am not an attorney and do not claim to know all aspects of what constitutes self defense. Still I have to disagree with you on this.

        Let us suppose for a moment.
        You and I are involved in a minor fender bender.
        You get out of your car, examine the damage, and prepare to report the accident.
        I get out of my car and start beating the crap out of you.
        At some point you gain the upper hand and start beating the crap out of me.
        At which point I shoot you dead.
        Does the mere fact that I am now losing the fight give me the right to kill you?
        Does having a gun in my possession give me the right to go around picking fights with people and then killing the ones that are kicking my ass?
        According to the above statement it does.
        I do not believe it does and I do not believe a jury would either.

        • That’s a horrible example.

          It’s more like a guy walking around near your house looking suspicious (especially given recent robberies, and how he appears to be trying to pick a good home to target), and you approach a bit closer to get a good description to give the police, they recommend that you vamoose, and while you are complying with that request, you get jumped from behind and end up shooting the other party whilst in fear for your life.

          This, in essence, seems to be what Zimmerman contends happened. If it is true, then the shoot was probably legitimately self defense.

          Otherwise, it may not be.

          Regardless, we don’t have enough details to make an informed decision.

          That said, the more I see and hear, the more I am disgusted by the agenda at work in the MSM. One TV news video had a group of black panthers chanting “black power” —if my buddies and I all got dressed in a similar manner, and were shouting “white power” they’d call us racists, but they didn’t say one bloody word about the BPs.

          • My example has nothing to do with the Zimmerman case. Nor did I refer to the case.

            I was referring to and only to the remark that self defense is a justifiable defense regardless of who initiates contact.

            While I have read all the comments on the Zimmerman case posted on TTAG,I have not posted myself, because I don’t believe I have enough facts to make an informed argument one way or the other.

            • By the way HSR47,
              with the exception of the ” horrible example”remark, I agree with all that you said.

            • “I was referring to and only to the remark that self defense is a justifiable defense regardless of who initiates contact.”

              Actually, that’s not what Joe said. He qualified it as depending on the facts. Certainly in the example you gave, self defense would not be a defense.

              The difference here is how the contact is made, whether you walk up to someone and start talking or get out of your car and start beating them up.

              • The legal principle I heard is that the one who swings first is the aggressor, words don’t count.
                Self-defense is the prerogative of the one who was swung at. Of course if there are no witnesses, how can this be determined?

              • In Louisiana if you attack me and give up and say something like “Dude, I’m sorry. Please forgive me” and I then in turn start beating the everloving sh1t out of you, you have the right to shoot me.

    • Agreed, things get complicated when you don’t take EVERY opportunity to avoid confrontation. I would be willing to bet that if zimmermen had the chance to do it over again how would not place possessions/pride (or whatever it was) over the freedom he has lost to this point. The correct choice would been to let Mr Martin flee even if it meant him (not a thief) and 1000 thieves get away.

  7. “Typically selling for well under three bills, it’s easy on the wallet if not exactly a joy to shoot . . .” and it saved Zimmermann from possibly being beaten to death by “poor, innocent” Trayvon.

    • The socialist meeting that is anti-gun and anti-liberty is down the hall. BTW, go to the JPFO.com site where they have documented how governments and their anti-gun policies proceeded all the many genocides of the last century. TTAG is one of the few sites willing to rationally discuss and consider all the political, criminal, and legal angles of the shooting.

  9. @Aaron: thank you for closing the door so quietly. Also glad it didn’t hit you in the ass.

  11. I’m staying out of the discussion on the shooting to say the PF-9 was WAY too snappy for me. I suppose I could get used to the gun (50 rounds at a time) and it is nice and small but that pistol is not for me.

  13. Oh geez, what’s next? What kind of bullet was used? I don’t see why the exception has to define the merit of the rule.

  14. The kid was 6’2″ and 140? So he was just a bit bigger than Tommy Hearns, and the Hit Man was beating the sh!t out of experienced prize fighters when he was 17.

    I’ve personally known 17 yo kids who were a lot smaller and had no trouble killing people with their bare hands. If you’re disbelievers, I’d be happy to give them your address so they can visit you when they get out of prison.

    I’m not saying that Martin was like that. For all I know, the kid was a choirboy. I am saying that “only 140” and “only 17” are absolutely specious remarks.

  16. On youtube there is a recording of a 911 call where it sounds like shots were fired more than once. Listen to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL72w4xiTVU&feature=related Below please find partial transcript of tape at instances in question. Sorry if any errors. Call was already in progress, I started at first mention of shots.

    0.24 Sound of shot(s) being fired. Caller to 911 operator: “Send someone quick, there’s shots”!
    0.27 911 operator: “Does he look hurt to you”?
    0.29 Caller: “I can’t see him, I don’t wanna go out there, I don’t know what’s goin’ on…” (Male voice: “I have to warn you Sarah…”)
    0.32 Male voice: “Did you call them or not?”
    0.34 Caller: “They’re sending…” (high pitched cries continue)
    0.37 911 operator: “So you think he’s yelling ‘help'”?
    0.39 Caller: “Yes”
    0.40 911 operator: “Alright, what is your name and number?”
    0.41 Sound of gunshots…crying sounds stop
    0.42 Male voice: “OMG”!
    0.43 Caller: “Just…there’s GUNSHOTS”!
    0.46 911 operator: “You just heard gunshots”?
    0.47 Caller: “Yes”
    0.48 911 operator: “How many”?
    0.50 Caller: “Just one…Jeremy, get down”!
    0.51 Jeremy: “I won’t”! (Apparently, while the caller and her male companion were hiding upstairs young, disobedient Jeremy was downstairs and who knows what he may have heard or seen?) According to the caller, Martin and Zimmerman were in her backyard, outside of her downstairs window.

    So after listening to this, and taking into consideration that the caller told the 911 operator that she heard gunshots being fired more than once, how many gunshots did YOU, especially you experienced gun-toters, hear?

  18. Zimmerman initiated this whole messy tuiiatson. IF, and it’s a big IF he’s telling the truth regarding Martin attacking him he still started the whole friggin thing.There are plenty of inconsistencies in his story or stories that have appeared in the media. It will be interesting to see what the FBI determines regarding the screaming for help during the fight. If it was Zimmerman screaming he will likely get off given Florida’s screwed up SYG law. If it was Martin………..he should take a plea.Trying to defend Zimmeman is not helping the gun rights cause. The truth is if you give cops or civilians gun they are on occasion going to shoot people who didn’t need to be shot. Hell, even Navy Seals screw up on occasion. Like my gramer dere ain;t no perfection in this life.As for any chicken, Pedro, I don’t drink much. You’d be better off paying for the drinks. My late dad was a alcoholic with anger issues. I just have anger issues.

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