I dunno, I’d take up an RFB or RDB in that circumstance. I’ve shot ’em both relatively extensively, including an RFB to 800 yards in single-digit Wyoming weather, and they’re pretty capable.

 

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53 COMMENTS

    • And almost any firearm is very useful in close-quarters combat.

      Okay, so a “duck gun” (shotgun with 28-inch barrel) isn’t very useful for close quarters combat. But you get the idea.

    • jwm.

      Dunno about you, but if I’m going “in harm’s way”, I want a freakin’ gun that will go “bang” when I pull the bang switch. I guess I’m just picky that way.

      • I get it Lamp. And this meme is just humor and does not represent what the Ukies actually think about their donations.

        The Ukies are doing better and the Russians are doing worse than I thought they would.

        • The “new” Russian army is much like the old Soviet Army. Authoritarian, strict control, no initiative from junior ranks.

          No wonder they are losing officers. Some are even getting attacked by their own troops.

        • Dude, yes. Only the Russian paras and spetsnaz had the really good gear and they’ve been all but wiped out. Most AK12s have empty rails. AK74s have been spotted.

          Even though the BMP 3 and 4 are the latest the Russians are using mostly 2s and even 1s. Are they being held in reserve or the Russians don’t want to lose them.

          The Mil24s look like D or E models. The later models were cheapened with fixed undercarriage. Aside from more modern AA defense, most vehicles don’t look later than the 90s.

          The Russian army appears to be poorly trained, badly led, minimally supplied, and having increasingly worrisome (for Putin) morale and discipline problems. In the news today was and article about how a Colonel was deliberately run over by a tank, crushing his legs, after the driver was angry about his friends being killed in fighting.

    • I only complain about the lack of free weapons. I mean, it’s our right, right? Unlike welfare or socialist medicare…

    • Those “free weapons” won’t amount to a hill of excrement if they don’t come with some ammo. The proposed movement of Migs from Poland had me wondering: Will there be armament, armorers, plane mechs and techs, spare parts, all the things that keep a system from being grounded? In the Biden Wimp era, I suppose warriors like Austin think the sight of an old Mig waggling its wings at Ruskies below would be some sort of victory lap.

      • you do realize that Ukraine actually has a Sukoi aircraft factory, or did before the war, in their territory. They literally BUILD or built SU25 Frogfoots.
        They know how to fly and maintain aircraft

  2. With most of the gunms that are being given to to Ukraniums they’re probably thinking we ain’t so well armed after all.

  3. Own a couple of Kel-Tecs. Some of their models express brilliant design (their manufacturing and QC purely suck @$$), some are more in the “nice try” category. Don’t agree with those who automatically dismiss Kel-Tec as garbage but . . . I’ve never met a stock Kel-Tec that I would rely on. BRILLIANT (occasionally crazy) designers, and their manufacturing and quality control are enough to make a sane man shed tears.

    • Agree about the RDB & perhaps the SU-16. Anything else not really. Yes I had a PF9 & a Sub2000. Underwhelmed by the QC. Beggers can’t be choosers(don’t give your nukes away or bribe certain American’s).

    • Lamp, I have two complaints with Kel-Tec. First, they seldom work. Second, they often break. Just my personal observations. Other than that I think they’re fine firearms.

      • Gadsden,

        I bought a Sub2000, because I liked the design, and there is no smaller, more “portable” PCC out there. Trigger was s***. Feed ramp was plastic. Sights were crappy. I bought the complete MCARBO upgrade kit (trigger, feed ramp, recoil spring, etc.). Spent about 8 hours doing the upgrades. The gun retains its really nice portability, but now when I pull the trigger, it goes boom pretty much every time. A solid firearm . . . now. Needs to be cleaned frequently, but since the upgrade, I have only had one misfeed (I do use decent factory ammo in it). GREAT design, s****y execution. A new trigger, springs, feed ramp, signts, etc. Kel-Tec could have upgraded the parts I swapped out (given volume discounts, etc.) for $50-$100 bucks; I spent almost $800, plus nearly 8 hours of time. Ended up costing me about what a Ruger PC9 would have cost (so not really a lot of “savings” there), but I still got a gun that folds up into my backpack, is pretty accurate out to 100-150 yards, and is easy to shoot. Like I said, BRILLIANT design, lousy execution.

      • Southern,

        At least as to my Sub2000, once I replaced all the crap parts, it works pretty well, and the design is brilliant. Stock from the factory, they suck @$$. TERRIBLE triggers (I’ve never encountered a Kel-Tec that didn’t have a s*** trigger), weak recoil springs, plastic feed ramp, crappy sights. For some reason, Kel-Tec would rather produce cheap crap than honor their (sometimes) brilliant designs with decent QC. I bought the Sub2000 because there was no other PCC out there that was as compact. I often love their designs, I HATE their manufacturing and QC. Have a friend who bought one of their older handguns. Damn thing jammed more often than it fired clean. Literally had to clear at least one jam per magazine (with decent factory ammo). Piece o’ shite. Still, they have some brilliant designs. If you’re willing to spend the time and money to upgrade them, they aren’t half bad. Now if Ruger’s PCC was half as light and portable, I’d buy that. Still don’t regret buying the Sub2000, just wish it had been better quality.

      • I had an opportunity to shoot a KSG (dual tube bullpup 12-ga shottie). Absolute worst ergonomics and sight picture. Fired off perhaps five shells, handed it back to the owner. As he smiled and asked how I liked it, I said I didn’t.

        Haven’t touched a Kel-Tec since.

  4. Use it to get yourself something better the other guy was carrying
    Think Tsun Zu said something bout that too

  5. Never owned a Kel-Tec product. Nor fired 1 to my knowledge. The few people I know that have owned such or have used them have not been too impressed. However, there have been several military weapons issued that ended up being considered throwaway or disposable weapons. 1 that comes to mind is the British Sterling sub gun of WWII. Use it as long as it went bang. And when it didn’t, you tossed it and grabbed whatever was available.

      • The Sterling was a later and more refined design. Even so. The STEN was a front line weapon (crude though it was) and never intended to be deliberately discarded. That said, I’d have swapped one for a rifle, any rifle, that I was sure I’d be able to get ammo for. Got to say though, the STENs I shot worked.

        • The STEN had the common problems of badly made double-stack single-feed magazines. If a Lanchester magazine was used the STEN would work fine.

          I’ve seen historical photos of British troops using MP40s into the mid-1960s because they were thought better than the STEN.

          Interesting that the Thompson, Owen, and later Stirling used double-stack double-feed magazines.

  6. I love my Sub-2000 in .40 cal and I don’t care who knows. Wouldn’t be the first one I grab when SHTF, but I’m just sayin…

    • I’d be very interested in a “long term” report after you’ve put maybe 2-3 thousand rounds through it. I opted for the 9mm because I was concerned about how it would stand up to the .40 on a long-term basis. I wouldn’t consider my 9mm Sub2000 to be a “I’m going to get 10,000 rounds of service out of this” kind of weapon, but it is great for what it is (now). If the .40 works, I’d rather have that, but just didn’t trust the basic Sub2000 to stand up for long term. Let me know how it does.

  7. I’m just hoping they end up getting surplused back to the US so I can’t one cheap from AIM Surplus.

  10. The best of just about everything in the Soviet Union including the warriors came from Ukraine.

    • A lot of the Ukrainian military probably served in the Soviet military. They know the Russians’ doctrine in attack and worked out a surprisingly good defense.

      It should not be a surprise to Russia as they had exactly the same problem in Grozny in 2000. And they had their asses handed to them there.

      But why the Russians would attack in the rasputsa (the mud season) is something to wonder. It severely restricts their mobility with even tracked vehicles restricted to roads.

      When the vozhd makes the order the army moves. Note vozhd means leader or boss. It is an unofficial title given to Stalin.

      • “But why the Russians would attack in the rasputsa (the mud season) is something to wonder“

        Putin’s time is limited due to his terminal illness, he wants to establish his legacy as Czar/Stalin before he shuffles off this mortal coil.

        • If that’s the case, the imminent infighting over the power vacuum will quickly undo any gains made.

        • Yeah, drednicolson, but (for once in his life) is right about this – Putin doesn’t give a s*** about what happens after he’s gone. He’s the kind of leader (like Senile Joe the Serial Pedophile) that you get when you have a basically authoritarian system. Putin overbet a mediocre hand, and now he has a very real chance of losing outright. Since he’s a sick f*** of a dictatorial Leftist/fascist, he may go completely bugf*** nuts and start slinging nukes and/or bioweapons. He’s crazy. Fortunately, Joe’s just stupid and senile. Joe may INSTIGATE a war with his idiocy, but he will always be the instigator, not the one who actually starts s***.

  11. Once you choose sides in a war, you’ve “chosen sides”.
    Good luck with that.

    Eff ’round & find out.

  12. Lampofdiogenes, (I hope I spelled it correctly), I felt exactly the same. I bought the Sub2K because of the design until I realized it was assemble with the cheapest, most temporary materials possible. I also bought the whole Mcarbo rebuild and because I happened to know an extraordinarily capable gunsmith, I handed both the 9 mm and the parts to him. It’s an great concealer and shoots everything. In hindsight I wouldn’t do that again but I hope the company loads the Sub2Ks rebuilt into the shipments instead of the stock shooters. Plastic feed ramps, for God’s sake.

  13. I have found Keltec’s long stroke rifles like the SU-16 to be both reliable and lightweight to boot. Given the spray-and-pray combat shooting footage in Ukraine that I’ve seen from the AK types, a Keltec wouldn’t be a bad choice?

    IMO, Keltec caters to the budget minded prepper crowd, not the hardcore tacticool types running multi thousand dollar kits.

  14. I’m glad that the military-industrial complex produced Atomic weapons. Because they kept everyone safe. That is until Ukraine got rid of them. With the promise of President Clinton that he would protect Ukraine.

    The Democrats want you to give up your weapons, give of your bombs, give up your guns.

    And they the Democrats will keep you safe.

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