i hope i’m not the only sane person in the usa that hates s.a. they bought a known name and just keep trying to make money off it any way possible. they just suck.
I hate them too……but you did specify “sane” so maybe you are the only one.
They didn’t even buy the name, they just took it. And since the rightful owner of the name, the federal government, had abandoned it it was public domain.
Also; see Henry.
Ding!
The meme is really funny however unless you are a closet bigot or regurgitating what you heard from a bigot…Where a product is manufactured is of no importance or relevance.
A product either performs or has potential to perform or it’s history. And before clicking reply do not use your Made In China device to make a hypocrite out of yourself.
I cannot imagine SA going lower than Dick’s Sporting Goods and some others but if they did something must be keeping SA afloat.
Bottom line…Until the History Confirmed Darkside of Gun Control is seen by a consensus as Center X Gun Control will continue setting the pace for politically inept history illiterate Gun Owners to follow into an abyss.
That’s not necessarily true, just because our government has sold out the American worker doesn’t mean we have to.
Valuing free, fair trade, non repressive governments and living wages is not something that’s bad.
Exactly.. Check the country of origin manufacturer on your “Free” Chinese Virus test kits. As well as your “Free” N95 masks.
Bottom line…..
You have no clue what S.A. and RRA did to the state of Illinois, smaller gun shops and the people of the state and you don’t have enough interest in the situation that comes up here again and again, to even look into it.
Oh, and you forgot to add Jim Crow somewhere…..
ongoing grannypanties bunchup!
telemetry devices: umm, china. options? unawares.
firearms: endless list of country origins. purchased, turkish taffy. evil eye on one grip, hamsa on the other.
You are not
i cant be the only sane person that doesnt care what some dork ass loser thinks about a mid tier gun maker.
I’m with you, SA and RRA two traitors that I cannot forgive, as a former IL gun owner! Former as In IL, God Love Texas!
So I assume S&W and Ruger are still on your naughty list too?
Bill Ruger has been dead for awhile now and don’t think S&W is owned by the Brits anymore…..Situations change.
SA and RR may redeem themselves in the eyes of the buying public one day. Meh, probably not. I’ll try and find the crap youtube vid they put out explaining..lol.
So all the companies still selling firearms to California agencies that the plebs can’t own are A-OK? (playing devil’s advocate).
No ! Manufacturers should not sell to entities that are “infringers” including the fed but, $$$$
I wish HS Product sold crap under there own name…
HS does make pretty solid stuff.
Yes, SA sucks for betraying us.
Also, the guns should be cheaper since they are from Croatia.
I just find SA a little hypocritical. They prominently wrap themselves in the US flag as being the most ‘Murican company out there but by themselves are incapable of designing anything that isn’t derived from an ancient design. Anything contemporary from them is from Croatia. I have nothing against foreign firearms, and if XDs were marketed as Zagreb Arms or something similar I’d be fine with it. But SA would prefer that you ignore that little detail.
What’s everyone’s issue with Springfield Armory?
I have the Saint Victor, its a great gun, and I’m currently looking at the Hellcat for a concealed carry.
Betrayed Illinois. Lied about it. Cheaper from Croatia. Keep up!
Technically I think they betrayed the PEOPLE of Illinois.
The lobbyist working semi-independently did the betrayal. He was promptly fired. They then worked to shut down the law the lobbyist agreed to.
It is only ASSUMED (not actually known) that Springfield owners knew he was going to do that.
Springfield and Rock River Armory formed a lobbying firm. They said they wouldn’t oppose a law that put onerous restrictions on Illinois dealers if they were excluded from it. They also donated to antigun Democrat legislative leaders. When people found out, they pretended that it was a rogue lobby group that they happened to be member of, despite founding it, controlling it, and being the only members. The bill was killed, but then was reintroduced and passed the next year. The NRA later gave the Springfield CEO the Golden Bullseye Pioneer, despite everything they do being a copy of an existing gun (1911, M1A, AR-15, BHP) or imported (HS products). They just got the award for their BHP as 2022 Bullseye Handgun. Basically,, they paid enough for ads in magazines to get awards. With friends like that, who needs enemas.
Like gave $ to Mike Madigan aka Satan…ASSumed NO!
The guns are fine, it’s their owners that suck. If you think SA is an ethical company worth giving your money to you might also like a New York Times subscription.
Oops! By “their owners” I mean the owners of SA not the buyers of the guns.
You have to go back some years for the history…..This will get you started and please note who published this and you’ll understand the respect afforded.
Thanks for providing the link for people to catch up on.
I just don’t hate Springfield, guys. Sorry.
I don’t hate Springfield for selling Croatian guns, I rather like my XDm.
I do question whether I’ll ever buy from them again after I learned their shady backroom deals to try and sell out for fun control as long as they get an exemption.
Where a product is made is one factor of consideration. It is absurd to call that bigotry.
Loving your neighbor does not imply that you hate people who live elsewhere.
I have lots of firearms made in other countries, but also prefer to buy American made.
Globalized free trade is a scam designed to further enrich the oligarchs.
I own firearms made in several different countries. While I do have a preference for American made, a couple of my favorites are European made. As far as it goes, so long as the quality and workmanship is there, and the price is not out of line, I don’t really care if the firearm is made outside the country. Anyone who knows firearms has to admit some pretty poor quality firearms have been made here and some very high quality firearms have come from places you wouldn’t expect.
No matter what country the firearm originates from when manufactured, once its in your possession it originates from your country.
Got a Springfield Hellcat for my wife yesterday for her carry gun collection. Its nice, fits her hand perfectly. Going out to the range with it this weekend.
My SA Saint is one very nice firearm. So, exactly who elected the Illinois State legislature? I doubt the IFMA endorsed many of those mostly wretched folks. Blaming members of the IFMA for trying to survive the people’s failed politics seems disingenuous to me. However, I could fault SA and RRA for REMAINING in Illinois. Tennessee would welcome them.
If it really mattered where a gun was made german and russian surplus wouldn’t be so popular. Also all the old chicom imports.
It comes down to the fact that they, sa and rra, stabbed the people of their state right in the back.
Then they lied about it and tried to cover it up.
I only own 1 real Springfield product, a model of 1863 musket. Great wall hanger.
Sorry for the normal employees but I hope they both do bankrupt.
Smith & Wesson and Ruger have also in the past caved to government “cooperation.” They paid a pretty hefty price business wise for it too. Smith & Wesson almost vanished due to the decision.
For those that do not know the Smith & Wesson story; In 2000, Smith & Wesson, then a subsidiary of the U.K.’s Tomkins PLC, signed an agreement with the Clinton administration to escape potentially ruinous lawsuits over the cost of gun violence filed by municipalities and counties. Among other things, the company promised to bar any sale of its products without a background check. It also agreed to install locks on all its guns and to develop high-tech firearms that could be fired only by their owner.
The reaction was swift and sound. Led by gun-rights groups, dealers stopped carrying Smith & Wesson’s products, and buyers melted away. Thousands of retailers and tens of thousands of firearms consumers boycotted Smith & Wesson, the stock became basically worthless and had dropped way down to 19 cents a share and was still decreasing. The company was eventually sold for a fraction of what Tomkins initially paid. Smith & Wesson was basically ruined and was on the edge of the abyss of closing up forever. They would have gone out of business sooner with the Clinton deal to avoid the many lawsuits which would have set a precedence that would have effectively curtailed forearms manufacture and 2A rights in the country and today the gun-control groups would be deciding who could or could not have a firearm. Their hope was a deal with Saf-T-Hammer who purchased the company in May 2001 and assumed Smith & Wesson’s $30 million debt and paid Tomkins $15 million making the purchase price $45 million.
Here’s the thing; Companies do what is best for the company bottom line and their future, so it should not really be any surprise that sa and rra and Smith & Wesson and Ruger have done what they did when they did it. The results of not ‘cooperating’ would have been more devastating at the time resulting in them not being around today and furthering the exercise of second amendment rights by continuing to supply firearms. Yeah, I know some people will hold a grudge and never forgive them but it was a different time politically and financially back then and it wasn’t so easy to just pick up and move a major company back then when they didn’t have the money to do it or a new welcoming home state to move to in order to avoid cooperating.
Not trying to excuse them but things happen for a reason and sometimes the only way out is through and the path for these companies at the time was through.
note for: “… would have set a precedence that would have effectively curtailed forearms manufacture and 2A rights in the country and today the gun-control groups would be deciding who could or could not have a firearm.”
It would have set the precedence that a firearms company could be held liable for misuse of their product by someone else. The lawsuits then would be never ending and the financial drain on firearms companies over time even if they won the case would eventually run them out of business. The gun-control groups were practically having orgasms over this idea in 2000, their plan was to use the precedence to control the firearms industry by threat of lawsuit while using their back-door politics to influence legislatures to participate and aid legislation in their favor and through that influence decide how and when the second amendment could be exercised and who could or could not exercise it while doing away with firearms manufacturers and suppliers through lawsuit. They came close, until the S&W deal.
.40
Your right s&w almost when under. Ruger was a different story Bill R. just didn’t think “civilians” should have military style arms or high cap. magazines.
that’s the story people want to believe and is widely circulated, but that’s not really it. Ruger was under a lot of financial stress and under threat of having all their financing pulled by Bank Of America. Ruger was suffering and would not survive without the financing so they made concessions and thus “Bill R. just didn’t think ‘civilians’ should have military style arms or high cap. magazines.”
Like I said, things happen for a reason and sometimes the only way out is through. For Ruger the path was through so the company could survive.
A business concern “co-operating” with government edicts – or else- is fascism.
Couldn’t care less if my AR 300 blk pistol is Springfield anymore than I care that my milled AK originated in Bulgaria and my SAA is Uberti. Some things are important to me but who makes something I WANT is inconsequential.
I think the only ones I own that are NOT American made are my MILSURPS from Russia, Czheck, British, although the Rock Island is a Philippine Co. the plant is in Nevada, and when the trigger is pulled it goes BANG.
It’s not easy to find a firearms manufacturer that’s been around very long that hasn’t done or said ‘something’ that they shouldn’t have. It’s my personal decision to avoid guns made in Turkey specifically because of the kind of country that is. I completely understand the anger directed at Ruger, Springfield Armory, and others. Many people refuse to own Smith&Wesson revolvers because of the Hillary hole. I won’t disagree with any of it. My first gun was a Ruger and that was before I understood anything about any of this.
I have decided not to hold any gun owner in a negative light for owning a Springfield of any kind.
I find it interesting that I never hear anything politically negative like this when it comes to Beretta though. Perhaps over 500 years, they have learned a thing or two. The worst thing I seen is the 92’s breaking under stress during military testing and that wasn’t even about them.
mine is from a Philippian company now with U.S.A. Headquarters in Nevada, Armscor/Rock Island, this model is steel frame and slide ,the non metallic is not subjected to mechanical wear.
i hope i’m not the only sane person in the usa that hates s.a. they bought a known name and just keep trying to make money off it any way possible. they just suck.
I hate them too……but you did specify “sane” so maybe you are the only one.
They didn’t even buy the name, they just took it. And since the rightful owner of the name, the federal government, had abandoned it it was public domain.
Also; see Henry.
Ding!
The meme is really funny however unless you are a closet bigot or regurgitating what you heard from a bigot…Where a product is manufactured is of no importance or relevance.
A product either performs or has potential to perform or it’s history. And before clicking reply do not use your Made In China device to make a hypocrite out of yourself.
I cannot imagine SA going lower than Dick’s Sporting Goods and some others but if they did something must be keeping SA afloat.
Bottom line…Until the History Confirmed Darkside of Gun Control is seen by a consensus as Center X Gun Control will continue setting the pace for politically inept history illiterate Gun Owners to follow into an abyss.
That’s not necessarily true, just because our government has sold out the American worker doesn’t mean we have to.
Valuing free, fair trade, non repressive governments and living wages is not something that’s bad.
Exactly.. Check the country of origin manufacturer on your “Free” Chinese Virus test kits. As well as your “Free” N95 masks.
Bottom line…..
You have no clue what S.A. and RRA did to the state of Illinois, smaller gun shops and the people of the state and you don’t have enough interest in the situation that comes up here again and again, to even look into it.
Oh, and you forgot to add Jim Crow somewhere…..
ongoing grannypanties bunchup!
telemetry devices: umm, china. options? unawares.
firearms: endless list of country origins. purchased, turkish taffy. evil eye on one grip, hamsa on the other.
You are not
i cant be the only sane person that doesnt care what some dork ass loser thinks about a mid tier gun maker.
I’m with you, SA and RRA two traitors that I cannot forgive, as a former IL gun owner! Former as In IL, God Love Texas!
So I assume S&W and Ruger are still on your naughty list too?
Bill Ruger has been dead for awhile now and don’t think S&W is owned by the Brits anymore…..Situations change.
SA and RR may redeem themselves in the eyes of the buying public one day. Meh, probably not. I’ll try and find the crap youtube vid they put out explaining..lol.
So all the companies still selling firearms to California agencies that the plebs can’t own are A-OK? (playing devil’s advocate).
No ! Manufacturers should not sell to entities that are “infringers” including the fed but, $$$$
I wish HS Product sold crap under there own name…
HS does make pretty solid stuff.
Yes, SA sucks for betraying us.
Also, the guns should be cheaper since they are from Croatia.
I just find SA a little hypocritical. They prominently wrap themselves in the US flag as being the most ‘Murican company out there but by themselves are incapable of designing anything that isn’t derived from an ancient design. Anything contemporary from them is from Croatia. I have nothing against foreign firearms, and if XDs were marketed as Zagreb Arms or something similar I’d be fine with it. But SA would prefer that you ignore that little detail.
What’s everyone’s issue with Springfield Armory?
I have the Saint Victor, its a great gun, and I’m currently looking at the Hellcat for a concealed carry.
Betrayed Illinois. Lied about it. Cheaper from Croatia. Keep up!
Technically I think they betrayed the PEOPLE of Illinois.
The lobbyist working semi-independently did the betrayal. He was promptly fired. They then worked to shut down the law the lobbyist agreed to.
It is only ASSUMED (not actually known) that Springfield owners knew he was going to do that.
Springfield and Rock River Armory formed a lobbying firm. They said they wouldn’t oppose a law that put onerous restrictions on Illinois dealers if they were excluded from it. They also donated to antigun Democrat legislative leaders. When people found out, they pretended that it was a rogue lobby group that they happened to be member of, despite founding it, controlling it, and being the only members. The bill was killed, but then was reintroduced and passed the next year. The NRA later gave the Springfield CEO the Golden Bullseye Pioneer, despite everything they do being a copy of an existing gun (1911, M1A, AR-15, BHP) or imported (HS products). They just got the award for their BHP as 2022 Bullseye Handgun. Basically,, they paid enough for ads in magazines to get awards. With friends like that, who needs enemas.
Like gave $ to Mike Madigan aka Satan…ASSumed NO!
The guns are fine, it’s their owners that suck. If you think SA is an ethical company worth giving your money to you might also like a New York Times subscription.
Oops! By “their owners” I mean the owners of SA not the buyers of the guns.
You have to go back some years for the history…..This will get you started and please note who published this and you’ll understand the respect afforded.
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/springfield-armory-rock-river-arms-trade-opposition-to-illinois-ffl-licensing-scheme-for-carve-out/
Thanks for providing the link for people to catch up on.
I just don’t hate Springfield, guys. Sorry.
I don’t hate Springfield for selling Croatian guns, I rather like my XDm.
I do question whether I’ll ever buy from them again after I learned their shady backroom deals to try and sell out for fun control as long as they get an exemption.
Where a product is made is one factor of consideration. It is absurd to call that bigotry.
Loving your neighbor does not imply that you hate people who live elsewhere.
I have lots of firearms made in other countries, but also prefer to buy American made.
Globalized free trade is a scam designed to further enrich the oligarchs.
I own firearms made in several different countries. While I do have a preference for American made, a couple of my favorites are European made. As far as it goes, so long as the quality and workmanship is there, and the price is not out of line, I don’t really care if the firearm is made outside the country. Anyone who knows firearms has to admit some pretty poor quality firearms have been made here and some very high quality firearms have come from places you wouldn’t expect.
No matter what country the firearm originates from when manufactured, once its in your possession it originates from your country.
Got a Springfield Hellcat for my wife yesterday for her carry gun collection. Its nice, fits her hand perfectly. Going out to the range with it this weekend.
My SA Saint is one very nice firearm. So, exactly who elected the Illinois State legislature? I doubt the IFMA endorsed many of those mostly wretched folks. Blaming members of the IFMA for trying to survive the people’s failed politics seems disingenuous to me. However, I could fault SA and RRA for REMAINING in Illinois. Tennessee would welcome them.
If it really mattered where a gun was made german and russian surplus wouldn’t be so popular. Also all the old chicom imports.
It comes down to the fact that they, sa and rra, stabbed the people of their state right in the back.
Then they lied about it and tried to cover it up.
I only own 1 real Springfield product, a model of 1863 musket. Great wall hanger.
Sorry for the normal employees but I hope they both do bankrupt.
Smith & Wesson and Ruger have also in the past caved to government “cooperation.” They paid a pretty hefty price business wise for it too. Smith & Wesson almost vanished due to the decision.
For those that do not know the Smith & Wesson story; In 2000, Smith & Wesson, then a subsidiary of the U.K.’s Tomkins PLC, signed an agreement with the Clinton administration to escape potentially ruinous lawsuits over the cost of gun violence filed by municipalities and counties. Among other things, the company promised to bar any sale of its products without a background check. It also agreed to install locks on all its guns and to develop high-tech firearms that could be fired only by their owner.
The reaction was swift and sound. Led by gun-rights groups, dealers stopped carrying Smith & Wesson’s products, and buyers melted away. Thousands of retailers and tens of thousands of firearms consumers boycotted Smith & Wesson, the stock became basically worthless and had dropped way down to 19 cents a share and was still decreasing. The company was eventually sold for a fraction of what Tomkins initially paid. Smith & Wesson was basically ruined and was on the edge of the abyss of closing up forever. They would have gone out of business sooner with the Clinton deal to avoid the many lawsuits which would have set a precedence that would have effectively curtailed forearms manufacture and 2A rights in the country and today the gun-control groups would be deciding who could or could not have a firearm. Their hope was a deal with Saf-T-Hammer who purchased the company in May 2001 and assumed Smith & Wesson’s $30 million debt and paid Tomkins $15 million making the purchase price $45 million.
Here’s the thing; Companies do what is best for the company bottom line and their future, so it should not really be any surprise that sa and rra and Smith & Wesson and Ruger have done what they did when they did it. The results of not ‘cooperating’ would have been more devastating at the time resulting in them not being around today and furthering the exercise of second amendment rights by continuing to supply firearms. Yeah, I know some people will hold a grudge and never forgive them but it was a different time politically and financially back then and it wasn’t so easy to just pick up and move a major company back then when they didn’t have the money to do it or a new welcoming home state to move to in order to avoid cooperating.
Not trying to excuse them but things happen for a reason and sometimes the only way out is through and the path for these companies at the time was through.
note for: “… would have set a precedence that would have effectively curtailed forearms manufacture and 2A rights in the country and today the gun-control groups would be deciding who could or could not have a firearm.”
It would have set the precedence that a firearms company could be held liable for misuse of their product by someone else. The lawsuits then would be never ending and the financial drain on firearms companies over time even if they won the case would eventually run them out of business. The gun-control groups were practically having orgasms over this idea in 2000, their plan was to use the precedence to control the firearms industry by threat of lawsuit while using their back-door politics to influence legislatures to participate and aid legislation in their favor and through that influence decide how and when the second amendment could be exercised and who could or could not exercise it while doing away with firearms manufacturers and suppliers through lawsuit. They came close, until the S&W deal.
.40
Your right s&w almost when under. Ruger was a different story Bill R. just didn’t think “civilians” should have military style arms or high cap. magazines.
that’s the story people want to believe and is widely circulated, but that’s not really it. Ruger was under a lot of financial stress and under threat of having all their financing pulled by Bank Of America. Ruger was suffering and would not survive without the financing so they made concessions and thus “Bill R. just didn’t think ‘civilians’ should have military style arms or high cap. magazines.”
Like I said, things happen for a reason and sometimes the only way out is through. For Ruger the path was through so the company could survive.
A business concern “co-operating” with government edicts – or else- is fascism.
Couldn’t care less if my AR 300 blk pistol is Springfield anymore than I care that my milled AK originated in Bulgaria and my SAA is Uberti. Some things are important to me but who makes something I WANT is inconsequential.
I think the only ones I own that are NOT American made are my MILSURPS from Russia, Czheck, British, although the Rock Island is a Philippine Co. the plant is in Nevada, and when the trigger is pulled it goes BANG.
It’s not easy to find a firearms manufacturer that’s been around very long that hasn’t done or said ‘something’ that they shouldn’t have. It’s my personal decision to avoid guns made in Turkey specifically because of the kind of country that is. I completely understand the anger directed at Ruger, Springfield Armory, and others. Many people refuse to own Smith&Wesson revolvers because of the Hillary hole. I won’t disagree with any of it. My first gun was a Ruger and that was before I understood anything about any of this.
I have decided not to hold any gun owner in a negative light for owning a Springfield of any kind.
I find it interesting that I never hear anything politically negative like this when it comes to Beretta though. Perhaps over 500 years, they have learned a thing or two. The worst thing I seen is the 92’s breaking under stress during military testing and that wasn’t even about them.
mine is from a Philippian company now with U.S.A. Headquarters in Nevada, Armscor/Rock Island, this model is steel frame and slide ,the non metallic is not subjected to mechanical wear.
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