Hype. It’s a word synonymous with 10mm Auto. Developed by Col. Jeff Cooper, carried by Sonny Crockett, known in the firearms fraternity as “the cartridge the FBI couldn’t handle,” 10mm Auto has achieved near mythological status. If everything on the interwebz is to be believed (tip: it’s not) the 10mm auto was so powerful it was putting petite FBI agents on disability. To separate fact from friction [sic], I contacted Glock to get a full-size G20, deep diving into the veiled world of 10mm auto aficionados. First things first . . .
The Glock 20 is a big gun. In its non-short frame (SF) configuration it’s a tenth of an inch wider than a G17 and three tenths of an inch longer. Believe me: you feel every tenth of those inches. At 27.68 ounces the G20 outweighs its somewhat comparable cousin by almost 6 oz. Even without considering the recoil issue, that’s some heavy firepower.
Gen3 Glocks have always felt big in my hands. The G20 is certainly no exception—and then some. That said, with a two-handed grip, the Glock 20 felt comfortable enough for a large framed gun. When I tried it with a one-handed grip I felt as uneasy as a Mormon at the First Baptist Church of Dallas, Texas.
At first I attributed my enervation to the Glock’s grip size. That wasn’t the whole problem. I’m an aggressive grip texture kind of guy; the Gen3’s somewhat smooth side panels made the big ass G20 feel a bit slippery in my palms. A bit of grip tape and the G20 was GTG (Good to Go).
I won’t bore you by describing the Glock’s design characteristics. By this point I think we can all agree that Gaston’s guns are black, they aren’t known for their looks and they have one of the best stock triggers found in striker fired pistols.
One nice touch to this particular G20: Glock sent it with night sights. I’ve never been a fan of the stock Glock dot-in-¾’s-of-a-box sights. These tritium filled 3-dots fit the bill perfectly; they’re easy to see in the day, easy to see at night and make target acquisition as simple as Forrest Gump.
For my first range trip with the G20 I headed-out to my local sports store and to buy whatever 10mm ammo they had hanging around. I ended up with Remington 180gr FMJ target loads. All my slow fire shots were touching, my rapid fire strings were beautiful and that Glock trigger was as crisp as an autumn morning in the Bridger Mountains.
Hang on. Where was all this battleship-level recoil I’d read about? Why did I feel like I was just shooting a huskier G22? Slightly disappointed, I dutifully shot up the remaining ammo and returned home to do a little research.
Turns out that when the FBI decided they couldn’t handle the full house 10mm loads, they dumbed them down to something called the 10mm lite or 10mm FBI load. Eventually Smith & Wesson realized that they could replicate the ballistics of that load in a smaller cartridge. Thus the .40 S&W revolution was born, effectively relegating the 10mm to historical obscurity.
With the new information in hand I set out looking for some serious 10mm rounds. Slightly more than a week later, my friendly UPS guy brought me a box full of goodies from Double Tap Ammunition. Wanting to get a full spectrum for testing, I procured some 200 gr hard cast and 135 gr JHP to test as defensive loads. I also ordered some 200 gr FMJ target load to compare to a similar offering from Blazer. The table below lists the rounds’ advertised velocity and energy.
| Type | DoubleTap 200 gr WFNGC Hardcast | DoubleTap 135 gr Nosler JHP | DoubleTap 200 gr FMJ | Blazer 200 gr FMJ |
| Velocity at Muzzle | 1300 fps | 1600 fps | 1275 fps | 1050 fps |
| Energy at Muzle | 750 ft/lbs | 767 ft/lbs | 722 ft/lbs | 490 ft/lbs |
For testing, I fired a five-shot rapid fire strings from 7 yards at a Birchwood Casey Shoot N’ C bullseye target. I went with the 200 gr hardcast and 135 gr hollow points first.
Needless to say, the G20 gun was bucking a bit more with the big boy rounds, evidenced by my throwing a round off target in my first string. The G20’s heavy slide and polymer frame soaked up enough of the recoil to make it comfortable—while retaining enough oomph to let me know I was shooting a very aggressive gun. I needed to work a little to keep the G20 on target, but that’s not what I call “work.”
Shooting the slightly less powerful target/practice ammo, I again managed to throw a round on each of the strings. A little disappointed in my shooting, I tested the viability of the G20 as a duty weapon. I ran the qualification course we use at the Sheriff’s Office utilizing the DoubleTap 200 gr FMJ.
In short, the course requires that a shooter fire 18 rounds and start from 25 yards moving towards the target, utilizing cover, performing two reloads and firing two one handed strings. The results of this test were more than satisfactory. I hit 18 out of 18 for a perfect score. Obviously this would be a very viable and powerful choice for LEOs who can handle such a large handgun.
In the end, I don’t think recoil is what turns people away from a gun like the G20. Contrary to internet lore, the recoil was pretty mild for a cartridge that’s putting up better ballistics than a .357 Magnum. The problem is size.
It takes a relatively large handgun to handle this round; that can be a serious turnoff. I’ve grown more comfortable with the gargantuan G20 as the weather has gotten cooler in the mountains and people have started donning their coats. But this is not the EDC you’re looking for.
As an open carry gun, the G20 has a loyal following among outdoorsmen as a good defensive weapon against all sorts of two and four-legged creatures. So much so that Denmark outfits their Sirius Patrols in Greenland with the G20 to defend against polar bears.
And that, my friends, is where the G20 has found its niche: as an uber-reliable gun that can take any abuse you throw at it while shooting a hard-hitting round that will incapacitate large angry targets in a hurry. The G20 in 10mm isn’t entirely suitable for urban conflict (unless it is), but it’s the perfect hiking companion.
SPECIFICATIONS:
Caliber: 10mm Auto
Barrel Length: 4.60”
Overall Length: 7.59”
Weight: 27.68 oz
Finish: Parkerized Tenifer
Capacity: 15+1
Price: $590 MSRP
RATINGS (out of five stars)
Style *
One star for anti-style style.
Ergonomics * * *
If you’ve got small hands you’ll think you’re in The Land of the Lost. But the G20’s comfortable to hold and fire.
Reliability * * * * *
It’s a Glock. It ate everything I fed it with unwavering reliability.
Customizable * * * * *
Like its lesser caliber brothers, accessories abound for anything and everything Glock.
Carry * * *
About as concealable at Peter North’s third leg. But you’d be hard-pressed to find a more effective handgun for bear country. So that counts.
Overall Rating * * * *
An excellent defensive handgun suited for nightstand duty and woods carry.
Briefly, I worked for the company that most of the Freedom Group management came from and if Kevin had talked to anyone from that company he never would have entered into the agreement he did with them. Thankfully, given their total incompetence in so many areas he won what never should have been an issue. Hope he will go on to do great things in the silencer arena. I also read the entire 117 page judges ruling in the case
“Ergonomics * * *
If you’ve got small hands you’ll think you’re in The Land of the Lost. ”
Is that not why they offer the SF?
Thanks for the review. The G20 is on my short list for a White-Tail deer hunting sidearm. Also already considering adding a longer aftermarket compensated barrel.
If your still looking at getting a Glock 20 and a Aftermarket longer Barrel you might consider a Glock 40. It comes with a 6″ barrel and ready for a MOS tactical sights.
Thanks for the fine review. Now I want one but we only have black bear around here to contend with on hikes. I do wonder though: will one of these really ward off a polar ( or grizzly ) bear?
Probably not. If you really want a to use a plastic gun as a last resort on a bear, convert a 45 ACP (Glock 21, FNP45, probably others) to 40 Super or 45-08, both have energy levels similar to 44 mag.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.40_Super
http://www.armco-guns.com/bulletin_board.htm
Depends where you hit it. 🙂
On my one and only trip to the artic regions I noted that the Inuit and Athabascan women carried the Ruger sp101 in .357 magnum with a three inch barrel. I figure they knew what they were doing. If this gun outperforms the .357 revolver cartridge it should be adequate. My guide did say they carried the guns to “discourage” bear attacks, not to actually kill bears.jd
A.357 Magnum on a Grizzly or Polar Bear with ANY length barrel would not be effective against them. . . . I wouldn’t pack less than a .500 Smith & Wesson as a sidearm to a .375 H&H rifle. . . . . Even 30-06 rounds have been know to bounce off the foreheads of the big bears. . . A .357 Mag would have to be a direct hit in the eye to stop a big bear, and I’d hate to bet my life on even that.
A Jacksonville doctor salmon fishing in AK about 15 years ago, killed a charging brown bear with a .357. Dumb luck? Maybe, but it only took one round to the noggin.
JLin, the key word here is “effective.”
Yes, that doctor was able to kill a brown bear, and yes, it’s unquestionable that a hit in the brainpan with even a .22 LR beats a miss with a .500 S&W.
But the whole point is that you have a much smaller margin of error with a .357 against the big Alaskan bear compared to the more powerful calibers with a properly constructed (either a heavy hard cast or thick jacketed flatpoint) bullet.
For example, if this particular bear had lowered his head a particular way, that .357 slug could very well have bounced off, turning what should have been instant lights out into one massively pissed off bruin.
You get a greater certainty of penetrating heavy bone and muscle with the bigger stuff.
I’ve read more stories of bears who withstood handgun shots to their torso, including but not limited to, a .44 magnum. One bear who killed two campers, was shot a number of times with that .44 at close range (he was in their tent). The bear died sometime later from its wounds but “LATER” was too late for these two men. Iit proves to me that handgun rounds are not effective to STOP dangerous game when fired into the torso of a large, angry and determiend bear. The operative word is STOP – not KILL. That AK dentist was lucky IMO.
I’ve been carrying my Glock 29SF for 8 years. There is no other caliber I would carry because the 10mm has excellent stopping power when used against humans. It is an important issue to consider today when we are increasingly faced with deranged criminals or perps who are “high” on bath salts, PCP, cocaine or other drugs that significantly increase their ability to withstand one or more shots to their torso. The shooter is experiencing typically elevated adrenalin levels that could affect his aim, so a torso shot would need to have enough energy and velocity to dispatch the threat especially when the perp is closing distance quickly. Ten milimeter meets the demand.
My Glock is not difficult to handle. I added the Glock 20 mags to give me 15+1. I carry full power Double Tap 180 gr. hollow point 10mm. It is not a problem for follow up shots to stay accurate. I have a “Lightning” trigger, nite sights and upgraded springs – that’s it. It’s reliable and shoots every load I feed it. I wear the gun on my hip comfortably using a leather holster and a thick 1-1/2″ gun belt. It hides well under my shirt. A barrel swap allows me to shoot .40 and .357 SIG.
It is also the loudest handgun at the range. 🙂
– Rick
I doubt you have much experiece with big bears! It all depends on where you hit them. I have killed Brown bears, grizzlies and black bears with everything from a .375H&H to compound bow. Use a weapon with a well constructed bullet that you can shoot accurately. 06 bouncing of a bear skull….no way. Might have been a glancing shot but come on….
Exactly what I thought. The 06 isnt that far behind the 30 magnums and Ive seen them go through some pretty thick tree trunks.
That’s what I was thinking, ain’t no way! It must have been a dinosaur!
I find more credence in a 10mm killing a large bear (gizzly or polar) thatn I do a 30.06 ‘bouncing off a bear’s head! Im mean, come on! I’ve shot a lot of 30.06 and that round goes through railraod spike plates at 100 yards no problem and a steel railroad plate is harder than a big bear’s skull, although maybe not for the skull of the person who tellsa tall tales about high velocity .30 caliber bullets ‘bouncing off’ a bear’s skull!
This is just a bigger version of an already ugly gun.
I’ve been tossing around the idea of the G20 for ages. I found that only DoubleTap and BuffaloBore are offering full power 10mm loads and that they aren’t cheap. If it’s not as impractical for plinking as the lore would have you believe I may get one simply for the novelty but since I used to be on the .40 wonderbullet bandwagon (with a G23) I should probably get one to see what the fuss is really about anyway.
What’s your opinion of how it handled one-handed with the full power rounds?
The muzzle jumped a good bit more, but it wasn’t uncontrollable. I was able to get all rounds on target from about 12 yards when shooting three from my strong hand and then three from my weak hand during the qualification run.
Recoil? What recoil. It’s not a 45.
Forgotten how much I enjoy reading your writing. Excellent review. Thanks!
Thanks Tyler
Try the G29 sometime, it’s even more fun.
I have a G20 SF. I also have a G21 with standard frame. The G20SF fits me better, but my hands are not huge. I like it.
I do get slightly annoyed with the 10mm hype. No doubt it’s a powerful round, but I hear a lot of guys (who more often than not don’t even OWN a 10mm handgun) treat it like a magical death ray that kills anything it touches.
My biggest issue with 10mm is ammo price/availability. To me, it’s a caliber for the rich or the serious reloader. I’m perfectly happy with my .45ACP anyways.
Certified 10mm fanboy here 🙂
I agree on the recoil. To me, it feels like a slightly punchier .40 but I’m not really recoil sensitive.
And it’s really not all that huge. It works well under a coat or jacket like you said but mine also hides surpisingly well under a Charlie Sheen shirt.
Although it can out perform the revered .357 mag, I don’t get real carried away on the uber “stopping power” of the 10mm. I mostly picked it because it was everything I liked about the .40 (a very nice balance or overall energy, bullet diameter, jacket mushrooming, and penetration) only better.
“Believe me: you feel every tenth of those inches”
Giggity.
hehe
Get the Lone Wolf conversion barrel and shoot .40 SW all day. Save the 10mm for hunting. I’ve had both G20 and G20SF, and the SF is almost imperceptibly different.
I havn’t owned either but shot both. I have larger hand and had no problems with the 20. the 20sf asked me to put a bit more finger on the trigger than i like. I also have shot the 29 its little brother and enjoyed how the kick came back instead of up. or at least that’s how it felt. I’m buying the 20 as long as its around and if it isn’t the n i’ll go with the 29 and loose some of the ballistic performance
The 10mm round was really hampered by it’s history and by most of the guns that fired it. Its first gun, The Bren Ten, was an epic fraud (thanks, Col. Cooper) and it was followed by the underwhelming and gargantuan S&W 1006 and the overpriced Delta Elite and its initial durability problems.
The G20 is the best gun to ever chamber the 10mm, and there are plenty of shooters out there who just don’t like Glocks much. I was always hoping for a compact semi-automatic 10mm carbine, which could be dynamite for defense *and* big-game hunting.
But it never happened. The FBI abandoned it,and the 10mm’s thunder was stolen by the .40 S&W. The carbines and N-frame revolvers never materialized. It’s been left as a formidable but almost orphaned cartridge for handloaders and collectors.
N frames? What’s wrong with .41 Mag? Slightly better ballistics, especially with heavier bullets (250 grain Cor Bon hardcast at 1325 fps) and no moon clips.
H&K dallied with an MP-5/10 in 10mm. The ultimate subgun in my opinion.
S&W has two N frame revolvers in 10mm, the 610 and the 310. The new 5 shot L frame .44 would make a nice 10mm launcher.
http://www.gunblast.com/SW-610.htm
smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_766207_-1_757797_757797_757797_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y
Want a carbine? Some ARs are converted to ten. Then there is the Mech Tech.
http://www.mechtechsys.com/glock.php
One outfit used to convert M1 carbines to 10. Now that would be fun!
Class 3? The MP5 was chambered in ten. I used to get a lot of brass from the Illinois State Police when they practiced with it. Sounds like the ultimate sub gun to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=963-B2Al428
I have the Glock 20SF picked up with case and spare mag barely used for a very good price,
I have shot handguns for 47 years and a lot of 45 ACP and Colt in that time as well as 357 and 44 Mags.
I find the Glock 10mm to have a recoil no worse than a 45ACP+P-a lot less punishing than a 45 Colt Georgia Arms “Deerstopper”out of a Blackhawk.
The drop in barrel convertible aspect is also good.I have a Lone Wolf conventional barrel for lead rounds and am thinking of getting the 357 SIG and 40 S&W barrels,but am slightlty concerned because the 10mm uses a large pistol primer and the other two a small pistol primer.If the firing pin is hitting anywhere but dead center,it could pose a problem.
Thousands of .40 SW through mine with no problems.
I fail to see what the 10mm does in a pistol that the .40 S&W does not. However, I also think full power 10mm is an excellent, if not ideal, sub-gun/PDW round.
50% more energy, and typically heavier bullets with a greater sectional density. The same reason why most people choose 9mm over 380 Auto.
The big thing that 10mm offers is muzzle energy. Against a human target the ballistic increase may not be needed or warranted as the extra velocity will aid richochet in an urban setting more often but this is what you’d like in the woods with you. Heavy bullets, high velocity and you can break through the heavy bones and skin of wild animals too dangerous to gamble with a 9mm or other EDC flavor that’s more common. The .40 is more suited for concealed carry and human target incapacitation. If you’re talking strictly the bullets themselves, they are identical usually. The powder charge is the only magic there is and only then if you’ve got the full power loads.
I enjoy the baby 40 but in its hottest load found it cant even come close to a mans10 mm! I shoot all d tap or underwood ammo in my combat coly 45 acp… my 9 year old shoots all my full power stuff, the 40 is for wimps!!!!!The power of hot 10 mm id about the same recoil as my 45!! i have a g 29 inuse my hottest 10 s in ,, shoot a wimpy 500 round 9 mm or use a 10 mm ,, one shot!!! I shot 45 super all the time in my colt, felt like 10 mm, spray and pray,, ask ourvtroops about the 9 mm,, its a joke and needs giaint clips, Marines are getting 45s again and planninf on 45 super ammo!!! ive had 10 mm for years,, Anyday ill stand behind a 10 mm, sorry girls, tell my 9 year old grandson????best auto cart ever made, i like 40 cal but it cant ever be compared ta full power 10 mm ,, put jeans and boots on metroman,, ha ha ha lol
Brad,, agreed have owned a g 20 since the clinton era with mepro light sights , ive had rookies shoot it and very easily ,,it soaks up the recoil and is one of my most accurate glocks im thinking about a 29 for carry ,,metro s need not apply ,,lol
I am also very impressed with how I shoot 10mm, but the going price of ammo keeps me from adapting to it fully.
For those who do not like the Glock grip/Feel, do not dismiss the 10mm Sidearms offered by EAA. http://www.eaacorp.com/
I have a Full Size Polymer Witness, which feels very much like my Jerichos, and shoot very well in 10mm.
And, if you didn’t already know, .40 S&W stands for “Short & Weak”.
🙂
The FBI dropped the 10mm because women and men with smaller hands couldn’t easily handle weapons chambered in the round, from what I’ve read.
I have heard the same stories as well, to which I can only retort, ‘Annie Oakley was only 4 foot 10 and she was able to shoot every firearm better than any man and these firearms were full-size caliber and full-length weapons to boot. Back in Annie’s day, men and women were made of sterner stoock and didn’t complain like little children about ‘everything being too hard, make it easier for me Mommy and Daddy’.
Gentlemen,
I owned a G20 and was shooting big-boy ammo and the kick was not unpleasant but my wife hated it. The G20″C” models comp is awesome. My petite wife can shoot it one-handed now. She LOVES it. The power when loaded with “real” ammo makes it an everyday carry for me. I use an IWB carry rig with pants deliberately bought 2″ bigger and it disappears under a decent shirt. I’m 5’10” and 200 pounds, so not a huge guy. I’m not sure what “too much power” is, if the weapon is reliable and controllable. Try the comped one if you get a chance…I now own 3.
I have the S&W 625 in .45ACP and the 610 in 10mm and I think both are great, I got rid of the S&W .41 cal once I got the 10mm. Oddly enough the wife loves the 625, and I favor the 610. I probably like the 610 better because in seems to be a tad more accurate, plus when I go out to the range I like to shoot more rounds, the .45 isn’t what I’d call an endurance shooter. Yes the moon clips are a pain, but I have plenty of them and they are always full.
The 10mm is under rated IMO, and while the Glock sounds like quite a nice auto, I have more than enough guns as it is.
i have been shooting the 10 mm now since the 80s i have 3 G20, smith 1006,and a kimber target since recoil isnt a problem with me i load it full power i love it and i would carry it anywhere and anytime i can tell you when you turn one these rounds loose you know its a horse where can you let go a 200 gr bullet running well over a 1000 fps with 16 rounds thats 41 mag ballistics in a pistol
“About as concealable at Peter North’s third leg. But you’d be hard-pressed to find a more effective handgun for bear country. So that counts.”
This is only true if you wear dorky, tight pants. 5.11 makes plenty of great pants that allow a person to EASILY carry the full size G20. Their pants have double, reenforced pockets that include magazine slots, and are perfect for CC of virtually any handgun….even large ones like the G20.
Anyway, I love this gun because it is more than suitable for four and two legged creatures. I don’t have to carry a special gun while hiking in the backwoods, and it fits in my pocket for normal carry. It is my idea of a perfect handgun….a modern day dragoon.
I bow hunt in grizzly infested western MT. Last fall I had a sow and 2 cubs within 30 tense yards. She was jaw popping but never charged. I typically carry a 51/2″ SBH but the dang thing gets really heavy hanging off my belt. This year I am switching to a G20 in a drop thigh holster.
I bow hunt in grizzly infested western MT. Last fall I had a sow and 2 cubs within 30 tense yards. She was jaw popping but never charged. I typically carry a 51/2″ SBH but the thing gets really heavy hanging off my belt. This year I am switching to a G20 in a drop thigh holster.
Geez, I can’t believe how many people have an issue with a gun that has a large grip or a bit of recoil. Mountain ?…meet Molehill…. ( the lineup for 22 Colts is forming to the right, girls. ) Sorry if I seem a bit sarcastic but really, ladies… join the FBI or something. I have a Gen 4 G21 and it fits my hand well and I don’t even notice the recoil. ( I’m 5’8″ and 160lbs of ‘fang ‘n claw’ ) The only reason I bought it over the 20 is because of ammo cost and availability….that’s it. If I had to have a duty gun or needed it for the bush, I would get the 20….no question.
You should probably test fire the other weapons chambered in 10mm. The colt delta and the older SW models are the ones with more recoil. The G20 is relatively light on recoil due to the glock design. The Colt kicks a hell of a lot harder than the glock.
Also, you put a lot of emphasis on the shape and bulk of the weapon, but never mentioned that people with big hands don’t have a single problem with the size of it, and if you have girl hands, you should get a sw40 or a SF model of the 20.
The 10mm is useless if you don’t use the real loads. The boxed ammo from people like remmington is basically the same as a +p .40. It makes no sense to carry the 20 loaded with weak practice ammo. The gun should only be carried with the fully loaded rounds, otherwise it is just a +p .40.
The “hype” is quite real, if you consider there are no other auto pistols that carry this amount of fire and “knock down” power. The 20 has the ability to carry 16 rounds, and if you carry a few extra mags, you have more than enough to lay down enough fire in any given situation you are in. The 10mm is not a revolver round, and should not be compared to the 357 or 44 mag. If you want the power of a 44, then carry a 44 revolver. The 10mm is not for you. The 10mm is for people who need an auto pistol, but also need longer range and more power from the muzzle than the other auto pistol rounds.
If there is one undisputed area where the 10mm actually lives up to the “hype,” it is the increased range of the round. The 10mm can reach out past 100 yards, and carries more energy at that distance than a 45acp does from point blank range. It’s flatter trajectory as a result of it’s shape and velocity ensures that it can travel a longer distance than any other auto pistol round.
I believe you had bias prior to conducting this review, and suggest you try again in your assessment, and try to test fire more than just the g20 to realize how well the glock actually operated with the 10mm round.
Is it in fact as easy to convert a 21 Glock .45 to 10mm by swapping barrels and mags? What about the recoil springs? Thanks Dun
My research on that subject over the internet is that the question has been asked many many times before. Lone Wolf used to sell Glock 20 Barrels, but I don’t think they do anymore for that reason. People with G21’s like me would simply buy a conversion barrel and mags and just convert. While it could work in theory, the extractor on the G21 is not the same as the beefier extractor on the G20; thus, while you could do it, you would most likely not have the reliability from that. Actually, if you check Glocks website, the dimensions of the full size G20 and the full size G21 are exactly the same except the G20 weighs about 1 oz. more, and is a little more reinforced from what i have heard. I would not do a conversion, but i would buy a G20 and make sure that if I was using very hot ammo, I would probably get a better spring and guide rod depending on how good the G20 one was.
One thing you could do is buy a .40 S&W barrel from Lone Wolf, change to the .40 mags, and shoot .40 out of your 10mm all day and save some money over your expensive 10mm loads.
Just sayin.
my friend’s 5’4″ girlfriend loves shooting my g20sf,she placed 15 rounds in center of mass on the target from 40ft away,and says any man that cant handle it needs to get a sandwich and check his package lol!best handgun ive ever owned and absolutely no thoughts of selling it.
I was always a 1911 man.I hated Glocks.Then, I bought a G-19.That was followed by more Glocks.Now, I`m a Glock man, and I hate 1911`s. Thats life…
Awwwww….crap.
I hoped I would read a review that would conclude, “Nah, don’t bother, this really is just a gimmick”
But…
Well, thanks a lot bro, my order has been placed for one.
It goes completely against my nature to say so, but your thinks fits exactly with mine. My Glock 20c is not my every day carry gun, not by a long shot. I’m an old guy who prefers a small revolver or my Springfield XD45 for that purpose. The Glock 20c is what I bring along when I want a really powerful automatic. I take it along as a car gun on road trips (on the theory that the 10mm can buck an obstacle or two), and sometimes as a trail gun. It is particularly attractive because it is so durable, and at the same time (to quote you) it will adequately handle any two or four legged creature I encounter.
Oh, and the 15 round capacity is reassuring.
Thank you for giving me the chance to say, “I agree,” for a change.
I have several 10mm handguns, my first being a Springfield Omega with a 6” ported barrel and slide, then a first Generation G20, and finally, the dreaded AMT Javelina with a 5” barrel.
I will confess that I am a wussy and I am recoil sensitive and, of course, have small hands. All purportedly problems with “large” guns.
The Springfield is essentially a 1911 frame with a 6” linkless barrel and slide. It’s fun to shoot and handles Double Tap ammo just fine. The flames emanating from the ports is very nice and really gets everyone’s attention at the range.
The G20 was my second 10mm and I shot it for a couple of years in IDPA using a KKM 10mm to .40 conversion barrel. It ran flawlessly using stock 10mm mags. I was forced to shoot in the ESP (Enhanced Service Pistol) class because the “FrankenGlock” is a .40 conversion and the largest frame Glock (G20 and G21) was not offered in .40. I have small hands but am able to handle the gun just fine. I practice using the .40 conversion for familiarity with the gun and controls, then move to 10mm for some drills. It saves on the price of ammo. It is very large gun, but not really any bigger than my 1911s or Beretta 96.
My most recent 10mm acquisition was the AMT Javelina. I have several other AMT 1911s and had been wanting a Javelina. It’s an odd barrel length (to me, at least) for a Javelina. I understood that they were made in the 7” Longslide and that’s what I was looking for when this became available. It’s essentially a stock 5” 1911. It shoots well and is quite manageable.
I will say that there is, as observed by others here, a world of difference between 10mm gun shop “shelf ammo (Remington, etc.) and those like Double Tap that offer Target (quite stout) and full house ammo. The shelf ammo is like a semi-hot .40 while the DT will show you what a 10mm is all about.
I like the ballistics that 10mm makes available in a semi-auto.
Matt G
You are a pussy if you honestly believe a .45 has more punch than a 10mm. You have all let me down as men. With 15 rounds per magazine and stats better the .357 mag and just below a .44mag, you cannot beat this pistol. I concarry everyday with this beast. Man up! Just got some pinky extenders and grip sleeve if yall want to try my wifes Taurus TCP in .380 if you can handle the “recoil”
Ok…but what about the “pressure” capacity of the G20? Shelf bought 10mm is fine, but the hotter loads create much higher pressure. Does anybody have the info on how much a G20 can handle without going through customized changes? I don’t want to swap barrels/etc, and I don’t want to ask a G20 to fire a cartridge with the higher pressure created…if it’s more than the manufacturer recommends.
I love my Glock 20 but the cost of ammo is driving me back to 9mm. This is not the gun to have for EDC or if you like to just put rounds down range. The cheapest plinkers I can find are $25 per/50 box. Mid-power JHP run $35/50 box. That is just ridiculous, considering when I bought the gun 3 years ago, a box ran me $15. Love the gun, just can’t afford it anymore.
I’m a Mormon, and I’ve been to a First Baptist Church and I’m a Texan. Your metaphor is just silly, I’ve visited many churches including Catholic, Church of Christ, Living Stone, and a Synagogue.
You’re probably unfamiliar with our faith, because we often visit other churches with friends and have them visit ours.
Shhhh…don’t point out the facts. Messes with the gun grabber’s agenda. Just take this blue pill and get back into the Matrix. No red pills available.
Update
I went deer hunting with my “REP” stamped Marlin 1894 .45 Colt round barrel (standard model, NOT the Cowboy Limited) last November, taking my first ever deer at between 60 and 70 yards easily.
The doe fell literally without taking a single step, with the 225 grain Hornady FTX (yes, the same bullet used in Hornady LeveRevolution factory loads) through the front of the lungs, breaking the spine before exiting the neck.
I’m entirely satisfied with my Marlin.
I question whether America will finally awaken to the tyranny that’s taken hold in Washington. Aren’t Fast & Furious, the Boston Bombers, Fort Hood, Benghasi, the helicopter shootdown in Afghanistan (30 killed including 22 Navy SEALS) and the PC ROI’s which cost us thousands of lives enough? All these incidents, and dozens more, beg the question as to why these leftist bastards are allowed to constinue in their quest to whitewash the Islamic threat against our beloved nation – an existential threat which clearly overshadows that which was posed by the Third Reich. What about our debt to those who have made the supreme sacrifice so we could live free?
While HUSSEIN Obama campaigns to disarm us in the name of “Common Sense Gun Control”, he’s simultaneously arming the enemy camp (al Qaeda and the terrorist Muslim Brotherhood) with sophisticated weaponry – including manpads.
Ok, now we’re really fscked. Double irony that I read this on my phone in the parking lot of the Chabot range where there are hundreds of people shooting on a beautiful spring Saturday.
The .40 cal WAS obtained from shortening the 10 MM case length and somewhat lightening the bullet weight, but the .40 has nowhere even near the ballistics of the original 10 MM FULL LOADS. . . Double Tap Ammo still makes the full load 10 MM’s and they are in the range of a .41 magnum. . . . . The watered down versions of the 10 MM even pack more punch than the .40 cal. +P+ loads, so to compare the two as remotely equal is lunacy. . . . Add the 6″ hunting barrel to your Glock 20 or 29 and you have a h3lluva hunting handgun. . . . Also the 20 SF is quite manageable with my smaller hands. . . . I have a Colt Delta Elite also, but I’ll take the Glocks with the Lone Wolf Match Grade barrels over it any day. . . . They are tack drivers and very comfortable to shoot with even the full load 10 MM Double Tap Ammo. . . . Best to use a buffer in any 10 MM though, so you don’t crack a slide.
Does anyone have any experience with the LAR Grizzly 10mm conversion?
Wow. We really need to get a vote down or hide button on the replys to get rid of the advertisement garbage. I was looking at a kimber eclipse II but i read everything here and looks like ill be money ahead to get a g20 and lone wolf long slide and barrel, and even a compensator. And have a much cooler looking rig for whitetail this year.
AlenE, if you see a bunch anywhere in the future, just let them know about it at guntruth@me.com
I’ve already added these to my list for deletion, so you don’t have to worry about them.
are you kidding me? a 10mm not taking down a black bear? just last weekend there was a little girl about to get snatched up by a black bear out near the Kenai River(I think) here in Alaska and he took down the bear with the 10mm no problem. A .45 or .40 wouldn’t work because the round is so short, so it can’t get the velocity to penetrate. A .357, 10mm, .41, or .44 are your ideal pistols in bear country. I rock a G20 with an aftermarket 6.6″ LoneWolf barrel and a magazine of 200gr hard cast rounds. That would easily kill a bear up here.
The 200 gr. WFNGC cartridge is the primary cartridge used in a G20 with a 6″ bbl, extraheavy spring and titanium guide etc.,etc. by us poachers up here in Northern Maine. This cartridge is extraordinary in that the animals are usually dead before they hit the ground……which means we don’t spend any time tracking wounded game at night. Black bear and moose quiver when they hear this gun ‘s report! 5 stars for this combination!!
H.B.
no doubt. Last weekend i killed a big ol pickum up truck with my glock 29. It will kill anything inits path brother, and yea that one dude is a pussy, stick to your 45 man, cuz the tens recoul is toomuch for ya. Yourol lady iz cheayin on ya to. Ya loser.
rocco, PLEASE go away and get back to your Call of Duty game.
I reckon a Marine with a 1911 is something you don’t want to be against ya. Good deed and a good story.
I love how the marketing droids just LOVE to spin everyone up. Now HDLS SWAT cops have turned into “law enforcement operators.” To me that conjures up someone who did a bad, wound up on the Bow and Arrow Squad, and is answering phone calls for the station. Law enforcement operators. Bullsh1t.
Cops aren’t outgunned. They all carry 9mm or .40s, which are sufficient to kill people at close range. The military carries rifles because on the battlefield, range is king. Cops don’t make hundred yard shots. Hell, they don’t even make 15 yard kills. If they need more than seventeen shots in a crowded urban environment, well, a lot of bystanders are getting hit.
I have lived in Alaska for 50 years, born and raised. I have carried them all, .357, 44’s, 45lc, and the 10mm. The 10 is adequate for a black bear. For anything else bigger rules. I did have to kill a small 9 ft grizzly once. I used a 44 automag. But my heart was beating, and I thought I had to clean my drawers. If you are going to put yourself in those conditions carry the biggest gun you can handle.
The issue the FBI had with the original 10mm full power loads wasn’t that they couldn’t handle it, but that many shooters developed a flinch from the report or the recoil so had accuracy issues. Thus they went to the cut down loads. Not a problem with the gun or rounds themselves.
For those that practice and control that flinch, there really is no better autoloader available. In terms of stopping power, firepower and ranged capability there is no equal to the Glock 20 as any other gun/caliber falls short in one or more of the 3 categories. I have 2 of them, one tricked up much like the Captain’s above (albeit mine has an RMR parked on top instead of ghost ring nights). The drawback on my modified one is it MUST use full power loads or I get feed issues (the pathetically underpowered commercial target loads aren’t even up to .40 S&W standards and won’t fully push the slide back with a metallic spring on board).
The gun is a cannon, or howitzer as some say. But if you have to defend yourself against all possible threats with a carried handgun, this is probably the best all around (other than conceal ability in warmer weather).
When are Kel Tech going to release the Sub 2000 in 10mm using Glock magazines? Wouldn’t it be a good trunk duty carbine for back up to go with Glock 10mm?
Several things strike me about this thread:
1. The trigger: give the Glock trigger a chance. Spend some time, it will grow on you.
2. The ammo cost: A new scientific discovery has been made to deal with this. Those of us who do it call it “reloading.”
Patrick.. MecTech makes a carbine conversion kit for the g20.. Which sounds to me like it would be very fun/ practical in the truck.
Good heads up, Royal T. I haven’t seen the MecTech kit yet, but will check it out. I was looking at the Roni kit but apprehensive about the $379 price tag. They do seem to do very well though. http://www.amazon.com/CAA-Tactical-Pistol-Chassis-Glock/dp/B00HXWS8YS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401010275&sr=8-1&keywords=roni+glock+20
I have a Glock 21 SF with a Storm Lake barrel for 10mm. This conversion is AWESOME. No problems at all. Only changes were the barrel, mags, and guide rod with spring. Switched to a 20lb spring. No problems at all except for some reason Underwood 220 grain hardcast will fail to feed about 1 round in 8-10. All other rounds like DoubleTap 200 grain and Underwood 200 grain FMJ have zero problems. Recoil is heavier of course than 45acp. When firing this round, everyone at the range takes notice. Storm Lake support is as good as it gets. Glock 20 is good, but Glock 21 is great. Best of Both worlds.
The 357 magnum is a more powerful cartridge than the 10mm. It has more case capacity and will shoot the same weight bullet faster in the same type of gun. As the barrels get longer the 357 leaves the 10mm in it’s dust. 125 grain bullets at 2300fps, 140 grain bullets at 2000fps and 158 grain bullets at 1900 fps is way beyond what the 10mm is capable of. The 10mm fanboys are delusional with their craptastic Underwood ammo that blows up guns.
Jerry, you are a troll, and not even a very good one at that.
“Craptastic” Underwood ammo?
Were you even aware that Underwood is still Saami spec?
Were you even aware that the absolute max loading of .357 Magnum is a 158 grain loading from Buffalo Bore that registers 774 foot pounds?
But wait, there are dozens of loadings for 10mm Auto from Buffalo Bore, Doubletap, Corbon, Underwood, and even Norma, that all register well over 700 foot pounds, including Underwood’s 155 grain load that registers 775 foot pounds.
Further, I have clocked my own handloads with my Shooting Chrony F-1 to find that they were generating between 635-650 foot pounds.
And these weren’t loads I just threw together without following the manuals; they were listed in black and white in my Speer, Nosler, Hornady, and Barnes manuals.
Further, I get not a hint of pressure signs with any of these loads out of my S&W 1006…no bulged or blown case heads, no flattened or blown or flattened primers, no split cases, nothing but 100% feeding and ejecting reliability, not to mention 4″ five shot groups offhand at 25 yards.
Then, as if you didn’t look silly enough, you start describing the velocity of .357 Magnum out of rifle length barrels vs. 10mm out of handgun barrels?
Seriously?
Does the old saying “Apples and oranges” come to mind?
You’re wrong, and any ballistician or experienced handloader can prove you wrong with the data.
Now, run along junior.
I hunted brown bear this past April w/my .338 win mag. My G20 w/Buffalo Bore was my tent gun + conceal carried a couple days around Anchorage
Lets make this very clear. A 10mm or a .357 WILL kill any bear. If you arent a good enough shot, or dont know where to shoot a bear, then you should not be hunting them because they will jack you up. I personally shot a brown bear with a 10mm, hes dead
What most people don’t know is you can fire a 357 sig out of a 40, or a 10. But your best bet is converting your 10mm or 45 to a 50 cal. One good tip, if the 10 mm grips are too big- file them down. Then wrap them in duct tape for a professional look. A half dozen .25 autos will stop a bear. So will one 9mm. Kill it? No. As for a 30-06 bouncing off a grizzly head? Please… Lmao.
Now then, back to me telling you stuff you don’t know- the best way to store a handgun is to fill it with toilet bowl cleaner or drain opener and freeze it. Then put the ammo in your microwave on high for 8 minutes. Add a tsp of vanilla to taste.
A 357 mag not stopping a bear- the biggest and meanest bear- is absurd. I’d rather use a 22lr shot shell. The 10mm is pretty much useless. Unless you’re hunting, or even if you aren’t, a 357 sig will be easier to handle. Viagra and enzyte is cheaper than a box of real 10mm. A 44 mag as defense is equally absurd. Hunting, not so absurd. A 500 s&w is a little mans gun. Period. A monster truck or a Harley is less likely to stress fracture your wrists, and they serve the same purpose.
The notion that a bonded 9mm won’t stop a bear is just silly. Here’s what the bear is thinking…” Ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch”.
What hurts worse? 17rds of zombie max or a squirt of pepper sauce? Bear mace works. Shucks, boat horns work. What do I know? I’ve only seen a half dozen bears run at the clap of my hands.
” look out jimbo he’s comin right fer us!!!”
Just don’t let Obama take your guns…. Actually thanks to him, maybe you’ll be able to actually use that mythical 500s&w as you legally carry it in a damn park.
500 s&w a little mans gun? Are you serious? I was 12 years old when my father bought a brand new 500 when they came out. I bet you haven’t even shot anything besides a 9mm. Go back to googling and play call of duty little boy
Btw, no question a 10mm out does a 357.
Btw, no question a sledge hammer out does a 24 oz claw hammer.
So go frame a house with a damn sledge hammer.
Good lord.
Is Joe expert a troll, or is he really that unintelligible?
Made sense to me. I don’t know that I agree with him, because I really don’t have an opinion, but I understood perfectly the point he was trying to convey.
I love my glock 10 mm I have three and the 10 mm is my baby but the only problem most guns stores do not carry bullets for the 10mm but there is no love lost 10 mm is still my top gun
Great article but I have to disagree about the 20SF not being a great EDC gun. I carry mine everyday in a sticky holster. If it’s not in it it’s in a serpa level 2. I’m sure my build has a lot to do with it but for me I wouldn’t have anything else.
I know this is an older review, but I thought it should be mentioned that Alaska State Troopers (brown shifts I think they are called) carry the G20.
Personally I carry the G29SF and a concealed carry. I’m about 5’10” and 145lbs. No probelms.
I simply do not understand why someone would carry a semi-auto in dangerous game country. I’ve shot my S&W M27 (6″) with hot hard cast handloads for thirty years. I’d not want to take on any bear with a handgun, but I would not feel unarmed against a black bear. Also, I’ve backpacked with a S&W M57 (8-3/8″) and/or S&W M657 (6″), both in .41 mag for at least 25 years. I’ve shot both in IHMSA matches for at least that long. I don’t have malfunctions. My .41 handloads shoot all the way through wild hogs. Dangerous game does not need 15 rounds. Anybody who believes that a 10mm will outperform a stout .357 or bigger magnum in a wheelgun with a decent barrel simply is not adequately informed.
I think i need one of these fine shooting tools! My carry piece is a glock 26 with glock 19 mag. They never jamb i feel their reliability is almost as good as a revolver.
George Coolney Rosemary Clooney’s no good litle snut bucket nephew who did’nt get enough trips to the woodshed too bad he has turned out to sucha freakin idiot we need to boycott his putrid movies
I’ve never owned a Glock 20 but I did try one out at a rental range one time and was VERY impressed with it. They told me they hand loaded the ammo (the range was Bulleseyes in Lawrenceville,GA-an awesome gun shop and range [maybe one of the best in the South-no kidding]if you’re ever in the Atlanta GA area).
My question to all the 10mm guys and hand loaders is-can the Glock 20 hit accurately (i.e. Human or deer torso sized targets)at 100 yards with standard factory fmj target loads and hollow points? How far will it reach out-200 yards?
I’ve shot Beretta 92s and it’s easy as pie to hit B-27 sized silhouettes at 100 yards with fmj target ammo. I love a gun that can do that-only other that was that good @100 yards was a Sig P226 in 9mm. 1911s tend to sink like a stone and the Glock 21 is abysmal at distances and even struggles at 30 yards. The Glock 20’doeant even feel like it’s getting started at 30 yards (would’ve shot it further but the range was indoor and 30 yards was all it had). I love shooting pistols at 50 and 100 yards just to see what they’re capable of.
When people talk about good trajectory/flat shooting in a round I agree 100%. Some bullet weight and mass matter too-one day I shot an 20″ 5.56 Ar-15 in 20-30mph winds and was having trouble hitting paper @100 yards (pathetic in my book$ but this guy had a Stg58 20″ 7.62×51 FN FAL and we could both hit with ease @100 and 200 yards in those kind of winds. Heavy bullets buck the winds.
So fellow firearms enthusiast-
Is the 10mm THAT good? Can kill lower 48 game, can buck the wind, can you hit steel plates or B-27s @100 yards or better, etc?
Gentlemen,
An interesting read on a viable topic. As a Federal LEO of some 27+ years, I’ve seen calibers and guns come and go like winter snow.Yes. I have large hands and yes, I loved the 10mm until it was taken away and replaced.
Yesterday I ordered a G20 SF and I expect to love it! I live above 5000 feet in central Arizona. About the only real threats are cougars and bears. When camping or afield I carry a .44 and a 12 gauge slug gun but have never used either in 12 years here. Best wishes to one and all, Sandy
I bought a G20C barrel/slide assembly from a company that sells gun parts minus the registered receiver, the receivers are destroyed… the guns were police confiscations and they sell the parts but no receiver…I found a G20SF frame complete and put my 20C on the 20SF; this gun shoots so nice. Recoil is light and the SF frame fits my hands well. The 10MM is a great cartridge!
The gun grabber ideology is just a bunch of talking points, not a logical and reasoned consensus based on evidence and realities.
I think any of us, including myself, who have had any form of dialogue with the average gun grabber can conclude this.
I am actually somewhat happy, for lack of better word, that the ANTIFA (though I’m have not seen any compeling evidence the shooting was directly related to them) folks are acting as they are right now.
They are helping left the veil we gun folks knew was already there.
“Outback Steakhouse, Carrabba’s Italian Grill, Bonefish Grill, Fleming’s Prime Steakhouse and Roy’s — are “gun free zones.” Unless you’re a cop”
BOYCOTT THEM ALL.
NATION-WIDE.
I love reading the feed back on all the firearms, ballistics of ammo, and the love someone has for their EDC. I carry several hand guns and the 9 mm has been and is still the best controlled firearm to many, but there is many others to compare. Not everybody can handle a 9 mm +P, .40 SW, 10 mm, .45 ACP +P, .357, .44 Magnum, or any larger or hotter round. We are not all the same. It takes time, practice, and expensive work to be the best and I have seen a young lady and a house wife out perform in military training with a AR 15 (.223), she out ran 12 other women with more training. Please be safe, train hard, and everyone is the best. Here is the last note: At 5 yards or 15 yards, a well placed shot from a firearm is deadly and not everyone goes BEAR hunting.
I have a G40 and bough a Lone Wolf threaded barrel. It would not feed two different brands of 10mm ammo. I sent it back for a refund and got a KKM threaded barrel. It works perfectly.