With our editor’s continued blessing, I’ll be presenting reviews and profiles of exceptionally affordable yet dependable firearms. Aesthetically-challenged guns that will never command a collector’s premium. Guns that were often made by the tens of millions, in countries that either no longer exist or whose names cannot be pronounced by Western tongues. Guns that attract sneers and looking-down-the-nose condescension from the bespoke shotgun crowd at your shooting range. Guns, in other words, for Cheap Bastards. Or, in this case, paranoid cheap bastards.
If you find entertainment in marginally informed but strongly-held opinions, you’ll never be bored with sports bars, talk radio and firearms bulletin boards. After interminable discussions of “the best carry gun ever” and “is my AK clone 922(r) compliant?” you’ll be regaled ad nauseum on the subject of gun for SHTF (Shit Hits The Fan) or WROL (Without the Rule Of Law).
When SHTF and society is WROL, it is opined, you’ll want a handy and reliable rifle at your side, as you try to survive or escape the ensuing Hobbesian jungle where life is “nasty, brutish and short.” Where anarchy provides liberty only to the strong and ruthless.
Let’s add IMHO to this theoretical search for a SHTF WROL firearm that you can stash away for a very rainy day, along with several hundred rounds of ammo and a can of dessicant, for two or three Benjamins. I recommend the Mosin-Nagant rifle as your new GBFF (Gun Best Friend Forever).
History
The Mosin-Nagant rifle fought the enemies of the Russian and Soviet Rodina from the 1890s until the early 1960s. The weapon’s history is a 70-year lesson in what life is like when you don’t get on well with your neighbors. The Russians used their Mosin-Nagants against the Japanese, the Germans, their fellow Russians, neighboring Finns and, finally, more Germans and more Japanese.
The Mosin-Nagant earns no great distinction in having been used and abused by millions of illiterate peasant soldiers and Soviet conscripts. It wasn’t the best all-around infantry rifle of its time. Truth to tell, the Mauser 98 and the Lee-Enfield would be superior SHTF rifles in almost every category—except reliability and price. Nothing holds a candle to the Mosin-Nagant when it comes to price and reliability.
It’s not just a beer-budget blunderbuss. During World War Two, the Mosin-Nagant was the weapon of choice (and necessity) of Soviet and Finnish snipers. These grim reapers of the eastern front used the Mosin-Nagant to single-handedly kill entire companies of enemy soldiers.
Sniper Vasiliy Zaytsev, fictionalized in “Enemy At The Gates,” used scoped Mosin-Nagants to snuff 242 Wehrmacht Soldaten in four months. His sniper girlfriend, Tania Chenaya, (who may or may not have looked anything like Rachel Weisz) gave at least 80 Germans a dirt nap with her own Mosin-Nagants. Lyudmilla Pavlichenko was even more effective: she and her Mosin-Nagants had 309 confirmed kills.
Even these Russian die-hards couldn’t keep up with Finnish sniper Simo “White Death” Hayha. He killed 505 Soviet soldiers in just 100 days during the Winter War of 1939-40, using only his Finnish-made Mosin and its iron sights. Gangsta!
It may be ugly and antiquated, but a Mosin-Nagant in the right hands (and a target-rich environment) is a nine-pound weapon of mass destruction.
Today, Mosin-Nagants are the Mother of All Budget-Minded SHTF WROL WTF is that rifles. With perhaps 50 million weapons rattling around worldwide, they’re cheap as chips. Big 5 will sell you a Mosin-Nagant for $120 ($89 if you wait for their biweekly ‘sales’). Prices are even better at gun shows and gun stores. My own M44 carbine, IIRC, cost a whopping $65 in 2008. Your mileage may vary.
The Trick to Training a Dog?
Buy the right dog. Not every Mosin-Nagant is worthy of your zombie panic-room. Triggers run from good to hideous, as do their bores. It’s important to buy a [relatively] good one from a rack full of candidates, if only because you can.
If you go Mosin-Nagant shopping at a gun show, you’ll have to convince the dealer to snip the zip-tie so you can check the trigger and barrel. If it’s a busy gun show, he’ll have other, more profitable sales to chase. Don’t be surprised if you’re SHTF gun elicits a TILI (Take It or Leave It). in that case, get thee to a gun store. Preferably on a slow day.
There’s nothing magic about picking a good Mosin-Nagant. Find one with a nice bright bore that doesn’t look too beat-up and locks up tightly. Test for a decent trigger pull. Mosin-Nagants have so few moving parts—there’s not too much else that can go wrong. As a bonus, many of them have been arsenal-refinished. Don’t worry about “collector value.” Unscoped Russian Mosin-Nagants have less collector value than remaindered Stephen King paperbacks.
Now what?
As we’re asking a new (70 year-old) Mosin-Nagant to perform SHTF duty, you’ll need to function-test it and sight it in before you oil it up and put it in storage with maybe a thousand rounds of ammo. And hope you’ll never need it.
Where’s the fun in that? Once the Big Brown Truck drops off your crate of ammo, go ahead, make it pay. Blast holes in paper targets, tin cans and big game (void where prohibited by law). If you’re using steel-core ammo, have a go at any metal plate less than .5″ thick. [NB: If you’ve loaded you Zombie Plague rifle with steel-core bullets, keep in mind steel core bullets don’t expand. Hint: aim for the head.]
7.62x54R ammo is cheap. Russia and Eastern Europe produce hundreds of millions of rounds each year. An online bulk retailer will ship you a sealed 440 round ‘spam can’ for as little as $82.50 plus shipping. Compare that to the cost of commercial .30-06, and you’ll notice that your Communist rifle has a strong Capitalist charm.
This cheap ammo is no slouch, either. Depending on barrel length, the Mosin-Nagant typically drives a 147-grain bullet at a velocity of 2600-2900 fps. Some of the cartridges feature a mild-steel bullet core. It’s banned from some shooting ranges, it’ll punch holes in almost anything. CBs (Cheap Bastards) note: surplus 7.62x54R ammo is made with steel cases and Berdan-type corrosive primers. No reloading for you.
Another crucial tip: corrosive primers require you to give the rifle a quick cleaning with Windex or another ammonia-based cleaner promptly after shooting, followed by a regular cleaning with your favorite gun cleaner like CLP or Hoppe’s No. 9.
Cleaning a Mosin-Nagant isn’t difficult or terribly time-consuming. But failure to do it even once can ruin the bore and trash the gun. Alternatively, you can buy non-corrosive, non-reloadable ammo from Wolf and Privi Partisan starting at $8.60 per 20-round box plus shipping, which is still a hell of a deal for full-powered rifle ammo.
Ergonomics? We Don’t Need No Stinkin’ Ergonomics!
When it comes to shooting comfort and ergonomic controls, the Mosin-Nagant’s got nothing. The nicest thing you can say about the club-like stock is that you’re not likely to break it by accident. It features a straight grip, a dismally short length of pull and a contusion-inducing steel buttplate.
The short pull length was meant to allow a proper hold while wearing incredibly bulky Russian winter uniforms. What’s good for Igor the Soviet Conscript sucks for you. If you’re taller than 5’6″ or if you’re wearing normal clothing, you’ll have the bolt cocking piece nearly in your eye socket—unless you attach a thick recoil pad.
The butt end of the Mosin-Nagant resembles a steel-clad cudgel, destructible only by fire or chainsaw. If Barry Bonds tried to snap one over his knee like a misbehaving Louisville Slugger, he’d be carried off the field with a shattered and protruding femur.
Like most of its contemporaries, the Mosin-Nagant sports a clumsy bolt handle that sticks straight out from the receiver at 3 o’clock, instead of bending gracefully downward. It’s ugly and awkward; doing exactly nothing to improve the slightly balky cock-on-opening action.
The Mosin-Nagant isn’t buttery-smooth like a Lee-Enfield, or a masterpiece of clockwork German engineering like a Mauser. It is what it is: strong, ugly, cheap and functional.
I Spit on Your Safety!
TheMosin-Nagant’s ‘safety’ mechanism isn’t just clumsy; it’s a useless failure. Engaging it requires griping a small, slippery cocking piece on the rear of the bolt and pulling it back with 20 to 30 pounds of force while twisting it counterclockwise.
Disengaging it requires the same knuckle-crushing manipulation in reverse. This is challenging for iron-fingered rock climbers, difficult for mortal men and completely impossible for those with arthritis, gloves or cold fingers. Unless you go aftermarket, a Mosin’s only ‘safety’ mechanism is an empty chamber, or removing the bolt and carrying it in your pocket.
Hindsight is 20/20
Mosin-Nagants don’t do too badly in the sighting department. Its robust open sights are optimistically calibrated out to 1.5 or 2.5 kilometers. The carbine models (M38 and M44) are more challenging to shoot well because of their shorter sight radii, but benefit from much quicker handling. Aperture sights? Nyet. Scope attachment? Nyet. But M44s do come with a permanently attached side-folding bayonet which can stab your left middle finger if you grip the stock the wrong way.
Recoil
Perceived recoil depends on the type of Mosin you’re shooting. Without a recoil pad, carbine-length M38s and M44s kick like a short barreled 12-guage shooting 3″ rifled slugs. Or maybe like a featherweight .35 Whelen. Either way, the undersized stock and the steel buttplate don’t help things. You’ll want a beefy recoil pad which adds perhaps an inch of pull to the stock. Long-barreled 91/30s are heavier and the mass soaks up the recoil, but they will still fit you better if you add a thick recoil pad.
Accuracy
I’ve fired many hundreds of rounds through various Russian Mosin-Nagants, long and short, with iron sights and scout scopes. Not all of them were guns I would have bought; some had horrid triggers and some had rough bores.
A good Mosin can shoot 3″ groups at 100 yards with surplus ammo—if you’ve got better eyes than mine. A bad one won’t keep five shots on a Domino’s pizza box. Family size. My own M44 with a scout scope will shoot 3″-4″ groups all day long, or at least until my pounding headache starts to impair my shooting.
The Mosin-Nagant isn’t a tack-driver. Buut it handles quickly and points instinctively and hits what you aim it at (if your target’s big enough). I’d like to spend more range time with a scoped 91/30 and its longer barrel (and its reduced muzzle blast) to really see what a Mosin-Nagant can do from the bench with optics. But then . . . reliable, accurate or cheap. You’ve already chosen two.
Reliability
You will not find a more rugged or reliable firearm on earth. Other than poor triggers and mistreated barrels, which you’ll discover before purchasing, the only common functional flaw is difficult extraction once the gun heats up. This is usually caused by baked-in cosmoline in the chamber. A thorough cleaning while the gun is hot and you’re G2G.
The 7.62x54R is a rimmed cartridge; that’s what the “R” stands for. While the rim provides extremely positive extraction of spent cases, it requires special attention when loading. Each inserted cartridge must be pushed fully to the rear of the magazine before another is inserted on top of it. This makes reloading slower if you’re not using stripper clips.
Your Hurt Your WHAT?
The Mosin-Nagant is a ‘blast’ to shoot, on two levels. It’s all kinds of fun to go trigger-happy with a powerful rifle knowing you’re only spending $1 each time you empty the five-round magazine. The short-barreled Mosin variants (M38 and M44) are also amongst the loudest small arms ever built.
DO NOT fire them without hearing protection, even once, unless your life depends on it. I won’t fire mine without double hearing protection: plugs and muffs. Failure to double up sentences me to a splitting headache, which lasts for hours.
Surplus 7.62x54R ammo is optimized for light machineguns and Dragunov SVD sniper rifles, not for 20″ carbine barrels. When those bullets leave the muzzle of a 20″ barrel, they’ve still got burning powder behind them which blows out of the barrel and produces a dazzling blossom of flame, anywhere from six inches to three feet in diameter. It also subjects you and your fellow shooters to a grenade-like concussion.
Accessories and Modifications
The Mosin-Nagant has frugal charms and ergonomic flaws. It’s only a matter of time before you’ll start to wonder how you might be able to improve it a little bit. Maybe you could improve the trigger pull a little, or give it a functional safety mechanism, or replace the stock,or add a scope, or . . . whatever.
Don’t go there. I know the above video (and many more like it) show enthusiasts firing modified Mosin-Nagant’s at—and occasionally hitting—targets that are eight billion yards away. [ED: I blame Zaytsev.] But the Mosin-Nagant should be first and foremost a cheap gun.
The Mosin-Nagant aftermarket is thriving; you can transform your $89 STFU gun into a modern scoped hunting rifle or a tricked-out’Tacticool’ scout-sniper. You’ll end up dropping $400-$500 on a 70-year old gun that’s only cosmetically different from the $89 beater you bought. If you want a modern scoped rifle for $400-$500, there are plenty of better choices out there.
That said, some of the Mosin’s flaws can be addressed fairly cheaply. The safety, the bolt handle and the trigger can be collectively upgraded for about $120. These three modifications will make your Mosin a more accurate, comfortable and safe gun without compromising its character or reliability.
Safety and Bolt Modifications
Various third-party vendors offer Mosin cocking pieces with a steel ring welded to the safety knob, after the style of Swiss Schmidt-Rubin rifles, for around $25 plus shipping. This photo of a friend’s rifle also shows a $60 professional bent bolt modification. Steer clear of DIY bent bolt kits. Bolt handles are subjected to enormous stresses, which can shear the tiny machine screws that secure DIY bolt handles to the body.
Trigger Modifications
Mosin-Nagant triggers are all over the place in terms of creep, weight, overtravel and grittiness. You should have selected a good trigger when you cherry-picked your rifle. If you didn’t, you can drop in a Timney match-grade trigger group for less than $100. Or you can get a $55 ball-bearing trigger modification from Huber. [ED: Next time, pay attention in class.]
Optics
Mounting a scope on a Mosin is tricky. A gunsmith can drill and tap the receiver for specific Weaver-style bases, but you’ll need a bent bolt to clear the scope. This combination of parts and projects can easily cost $200, so . .. stop already.
To avoid the expense of a bent bolt, you can opt for a long eye relief ‘scout’ scope mount. There are many cheap ‘no-gunsmith’ mounts, costing less than $50, which attach to the rear sight base. Most are too flimsy to withstand the recoil or hold their zero. S&K makes the onlyhigh quality no-gunsmith scout mount for the Mosin-Nagant, for about $90.
My own DAIS NAID (Do As I Say, Not As I Do) M44 wears an S&K mount. It’s proven to be durable and reliable through 300+ rounds fired. Degreasing it thoroughly and applying blue Loctite to all screws during assembly was crucial to holding zero.
Muzzle Brakes
Don’t be tempted to bolt an AK-style muzzle brake on your M38 or M44, even if the recoil beats the stuffing out of you. First off, they make these guns even louder. They also attach rather weakly to the front sight post, which is only pressed onto the barrel proper. The violent recoil and muzzle gasses from these guns can either permanently damage the front sight post or physically tear the muzzle brake apart. I have a twisted paperweight that used to be an AK-style muzzle brake on my Mosin-Nagant.
Summary
The Mosin-Nagant isn’t pretty and it’s not the sweetest shooting rifle in the world. It could be pressed into hunting or defensive service, but it’s not the first choice for a hunting rifle and it would make a lousy home defense carbine. For an SHTF WROL OMG you bought THAT? gun it doesn’t get any better—that’s to say, cheaper—than this.
Two-hundred dollars and change buys you a rock-solid rifle—and 440 rounds of ammo. Every time you load it and pull the trigger, it goes BANG and blasts a big hole in whatever it’s pointed at. Works for me.
SPECIFICATIONS:
Caliber: 7.62x54R
Barrel: 20.2″ or 28.7″
Overall Length: 39.9″ or 50.7″
Weight: 7.5 lbs (M38) 8.8 lbs (M91/30) 9.0 lbs (M44)
Action: Magazine-fed bolt-action
Finish: Blue steel, wooden or laminated stock
Capacity: 5 round internal box magazine
Price: $90 to $120
RATINGS (Out of Five)
Style * *
It’s got a rugged and rustic Partisan charm, but has never won and will never win any beauty prizes.
Ergonomics * *
Nobody likes straight stocks or straight bolt handles. Stout recoil and a short length of pull give the carbine models punishing recoil. Add a ring safety and thick recoil pad for 2.5 stars.
Reliability * * * * *
Load, aim, pull trigger, and BOOM. Every time.
Customize This *
Trigger, bolt and safety can be upgraded cheaply, but proper scope mounting is costly. Buyer beware aftermarket muzzle brakes and DIY bolt modifications.
Overall Rating * *
Two stars is still a lot of gun for $89.
Amen.
It looks like Hitler’s mistress (Miss Eva Watts) is pretty pissed too. Always a good sign for freedom…
Great video, Wow! A machine gun for pennies. If you like it, you better build it and use it fast, before all the new laws come out, and rest assured, they will.
Speaking as a St. Louis NRA member and somewhat educated urban type, the first thing they need to do is can old Wayne. I know a lot of more or less liberal types who are 2A supporters, but are really embarrassed every time he opens his mouth.
Okay…….almost choked on my beer as I watched the video of this mini abomination. A bit complex to get going, waaay too expensive. Kind of like a solution in search of a problem. In my opinion, there are far too many options in affordable, readily accessible firearms which can accomplish the task required. This little gadget will likely end up serving as a collector’s curio.
+1000000 R.F. Let the trolls leave. May I add I believe most Democrats have a God shaped vacuum in their hearts. The Truth about Evil. Feel free to flame me.
Coming to a neighborhood to you very soon.
Smart guns and stupid politicians is a bad mix.
Love my 1911’s but they are for play, If the SHTF only a Glock 21 SF will be on my side.
Dual AA-12’s just like FPS Russia.
@WillCook, I think that is crappy customer service, $75 to sight in a pistol, I am in the wrong business !
Obviously most of you fella’s haven’t heard of my newest “acquisition to be” in scatterguns. Take a look at Arrieta.
New puppy coming and she’s been named Arrieta… so I get a new toy named the same 🙂 Did the same thing for the other dogs, one name Remington Woodlands, and the other Weatherby Bear.
When the men of the American 339th Infantry deployed to Northern Russia in September 1918 they carried Mosin-Nagant 91s. The MN91s were issued to them by the British War Office, which was in charge of the operation, for logistical reasons. Allied commanders believed a large cache of 7.62x54mmR ammunition was in the vicinity of Arkhangelsk, but this turned out to be not the case. Though they were given sufficient time to familiarize themselves with the MN rifles, both the enlisted men and officers of the 339th, accustomed to M1903 Springfields or M1917 Enfields, hated the Russian rifles, calling them "worthless weapons" and remarking, "No wonder they [the Russians] lost the war." Interestingly, these rifles were American-made, either by Remington or New England Westinghouse under contract with the Imperial Russian government, and were surplus when the Bolsheviks cancelled the contract. The only weapon which more infuriated the "Polar Bears" (as they have been called ever since their Winter of 1918-1919 combat tour in Russia) was the Vickers machine gun. The British, who were actually in charge of the entire American North Russia Expeditionary Force, in their infinite wisdom equipped the 339th and the other units of the ANREF with the water-cooled Vickers, knowing full well the men would be in Russia the entire winter. They also fed them British rations, which warmed the cockles of no man's heart.
Personally, if planning for a SHTF WROL situation (one I hope doesn't ever occur), I would be inclined to heed the experience of the Polar Bears and spend a little extra money to get a better rifle than the Mosin-Nagant, in a cartridge more readily available in post-ROL United States. You might pay more on the front end, but as the saying goes, "Garbage in, garbage out."
Detlef:
I'm glad you mentioned the US-made Mosin-Nagants. A late riend of mine owned a well-worn Remington contract Mosin-Nagant, and I had the chance to shoot it on a few occasions. I wish I had bought it as a collector piece; it was an interesting historical oddity, and one of the only Mosin-Nagants with any collector value. Original scoped 91/30s and Finnish-made Mosin-Nagants are the others.
The 'Polar Bears' were quite right to prefer their own M1903 Springfields and M1917 Enfields, which were superior weapons in almost every regard. Mausers were just as rugged and much easier to shoot, Lee-Enfields were much quicker and had twice the magazine capacity, and Springfields were far more accurate than Mosin-Nagants. Mosin-Nagants were *never* the first choice for an infantry rifle, except to the Imperial Russian ordinance officers who chose the design based largely on simplicity and ruggedness.
Certainly not a SHTF gun for me, but I do enjoy shooint my 1938 Izzy-made 91/30 often. I use modern rounds so I don't have to deal with the corrosive primer issues. For an extra $0.15 per round, I save $3.00 on ammonia and having to deal with it. I can consistently shoot a 24"-square steel target @ 300 yards with open sights at my local range. I thought I was a ZIT (Zaytsev-in-training), but others that have shot the gun can manage the same feat (although not quite as often as me, I'm in the 6/10 hit ratio). Fun gun to shoot and a nice little piece of history.
So far as I know all of Mr. Zaytsev's achievements were in Stalingrad. Id' guess 300m would be considered a VERY long shot in that environment.
Hey Chris,
Nice write-up. I appreciate your effort to give some very insightful and practical advice.
Well done.
Nice writeup. I enjoyed it.
I've a number of M-Ns with my favorites being the M44s. I like the noise and flash plus the strange looks I get when I extend the bayonet to shoot (it does seem to make a difference on where the bullet lands). The least I paid was for two laminated M44s from AIM about 10 yrs back for $29 each. On the high end it was $159 to SAMCO for a Finnish SAKO M39 which can shoot better than these 64 yr old eyes can ever do with it. Then there are about a half dozen 91/30s and a couple of M38s in the batch.
You're right that they are solid, dependable long guns and the ammo is very reasonable although I rarely buy anymore as I've dozens of Spam cans of the stuff (and 8mm and .303) stashed out in the barn. So, if SHTF occurs in my neighborhood I think I'm ready.
Again, good writeup!
I purchased mine at the monthly gun show here in KC for $130 usd and I did dig thru a green rifle box of about 25 rifles in it. PIA yes. but I dug out a Hex 1925 with a fairly good trigger and a supurb bore in it! so the only other expense here was the sling and stripper clips . being a fully retired old fa–. it is fun to shoot and all of my 06 cleaning gear works just fine . but a couple of pulls with the bore snake makes it look very good . and maybe I will try the bent bolt handle later on . BUT just out of the box for the price it cant be beat ? unless we can force the Obama and Clinton to bring the approx 1 mil. yes 1mil of used garands and 30 cal carbines back int the country? got to work on that one. and yes it realy barks hard so the double ear protection is a MUST …..just know that TSHF an autoloader will probably be the ticket cause it takes a long time to jack the bolt and resight . probably for me cause I am getting slower in my oldness ??? but the weight of it and 5 rounds feels good on the range !
I once owned a 1914 M1891 made into a 91/30. Solid bore, not the smoothest bolt I've worked on a mosin but it was still quite workable even if it did get stiff once the thing had a few dozen rounds through it. Reliability? Superb. The only times I ever experienced a legit jam was when one of the rimmed cartridges would wedge itself at an angle into the magazine well, usually caused by a rapid and sloppy loading with a stripper clip. Sometimes this necessitated removing the magazine, but not always. I highly recommend getting quality stripper clips. Examine each one, if it's stiff or gritty on the inside polish it up and loosen it by spreading it apart against a table etc. Practice loading with them also, obviously. From a SHTF standpoint, this weapon has: extreme reliability (huge bonus for any weapon), excellent stopping power even against big game, solid potential accuracy and range, and really nothing else. It's long (excluding the carbines) fairly heavy, has some awkward features and quirks, and obviously can't generate the kinds of firepower of any semi-auto. Don't get me wrong, I could work that bolt FAST, fast enough to feel confident defending my life with it, even against someone with a gun much more capable. Against multiple targets? Not hardly. Man on man, preferably with things like concealment and surprise at my disposal, you bet. Realize that tesshese weapons are still encountered on modern battlefields, it's a damn old design but that doesn't turn it into a usel relic. The Mujaheddin used them to good effect against the soviets in A-stan by using irregular tactics and ambushes, which is how I would see these as being effective in a SHTF scenario. As a side note, you might want a good magazine pouch for those stripper clips huh? Look no further than the standard leather dual pouch that often comes with mosins. The flap can be opened instantly but stays closed when you need it to, the leather is stiff enough to allow easy retrieval of the clip without it getting hung up in a loose cloth bag, and the downward orientation of the rounds keeps the cartridges from wanting to slip off the ends of the clip. In closing, for such little money, you have a helluva boomstick. This isn't the greatest rifle on Earth, but it is in it's price range.
Norma , winchester , and seller & belloit make soft point ammo for these that work well for hunting. the norma stuff costs a fortune , but it is ammazingly accurate. That said these are great fun guns. get a slip on recoil pad
(9 about $10) and you are good to go. I don't shoot mine form the bench, standing with a shooting stick or sitting are a good way to go, a lot less felt recoil.
You guys think a 20 in barrel carbine , makes noise and has a big flash, I picked uo a 91/30 with a damaged barrel, it fell over in this guys barn and a tractor ran over it, put a good bend in the barrel about 6in back from the muzzel, I dissasembled and inspected the rifle, and when I was done cutting the barrel was 16 in long, I was useing the surplus ammo, and not only does the gun throw fire like a flame thrower, it make a noise so load it scares animals 3 miles away, and now after 15 or 20 rds, I have a tennis ball size black&blue mark on my shoulder, it hurt but it was ALMOST worth it, seeing the reaction of the guys at the range
Thanks for sharing. Please send video file or link of your hands cannon to guntruth@me.com. Oh please.
Very VERY interesting article!
My bro-in-law gave me a “wonderful Christmas gift” last week. He gave me his old Mosin-Nagant–not sure where he got it–along with a big metal box of 800 rounds of surplus FMJ. (Knowing him, I should never have thought he was doing me a nice turn. After reading this article, I now know his real intentions!
I never saw such an ugly-looking thing in my life! (I grew up in a house full of ’06 weapons–mine was the 1917 Enfield). He handed it to me–it looked like a mower shaft ruined by a froze-up bearing (probably due to 1943 manufacture during the Nazi occupation of Western Russian Homeland?). I assume the wooden sheathing was to cover up the tooling striations on the barrel. I looked at this Christmas gift thing and wondered what in the world I was looking at!!!
I took it home and tore it all apart–re-worked the sear and bolt a bit–and got seriously impressed with the simplicity and ruggedness of this cumbersome clunk.
Now, reading the article, I think I might really enjoy blasting monstrous noisy holes in the sky–and anything else in front of this carbine (I don’t even know what model it is). Just hope I got the firing pin adjusted down so that it doesn’t bore a hole in the primer and blow hot crap all over my head–everywhere not covered by googles and earpads.
But the most interesting thing is all the WWII research this thing caused for my over-60-Baby-Boomer curiosity.
Very, very interesting piece of history my less-than-well-intentioned bro-in-law gave me! And thanks much for the very humorous article!
I purchased a 1926 91/30. $99.95 from a dealer in smyrna, ga. Floated the barrell in an ATI stock, 3-9×50 tasco scope, ATI scope mount, walmart bi-pod, $10 ak47 muzzle brake ( reamed out, set screws to center and then brazed on), my own bent bolt from a 5/16 stainless bolt ( also brazed on), drilled and set screwed trigger, and polished sear, reduced firing pin spring unsprung height ( helps ease cocking of bolt and no failure to fire yet). All of these upgrades cost $150 additional . At the range, 100 yard lane, I hit paper without even sighting in. 20 rounds of wolf ammo, I am shooting 2 inch groups. But let me qualify this. All five rounds are spaced within 2 inchs horizontally. The same 5 rounds do not vary more than 1/2 inch vertically. Hence the shot patten was rectangular 2″x 1/2″. I believe the width of the group can be drastically reduced if i were more steady . However this was the first 25 rounds through a gun i just bought. I am thrilled with it. Suprised with its performance. Every gun nut i know puts it down. I believe most people associate performance / reliabilty with name recognition. It reminds me of my brother in law who works for oxford industries. They make clothes. The most expensive pair of pants they make cost $4. They sell these pants to Polo Ralph Lauren which in turn sell them for $130 at Macys or Parasian. If your in Hiram, ga, look for mine at local ranges. I will be glad to let you shoot it. It will suprise and exceed expectations . The Mosin Nagant is the Rat rod of rifles.
I’m somewhat amused by the fact that the first picture shown after the part talking about horrible ergonomics and a straight stock is . . . a pistol grip M39.
Finns are the only Mosins worth having. I have several M39s (my pride and joy is a ’42 Sk.Y, even the original Sk.Y stock is numbered to match with is exceptionally rare), all with perfect barrels and all of which are at or near MOA capable. The standard of acceptance for the M39 was that each rifle was required to be able to put three shots in a row in a 1.3 inch circle at 100 meters. No other country in history has ever been so demanding of accuracy in their infantry rifles. Even my beat to shit Finn-rework ’39 Izhevsk 91/30 (brass shims still in place, in a Finnish two piece stock . . . ahhhh, proper length of pull, barrel that looks nasty and pitted on a good day) can do 2″ groups at 100 yards. Funny thing is, it was imported from Russian not Finland . . . but had never been rearsenalled by the Russians. Those guys at SAKO and Tikka and VKT really, REALLY knew how to make a rifle tick. Still do for that matter, making Mosin barrels better than any Mauser or Enfield ever made is how SAKO earned their name.
Hah, though, even the Finns couldn’t do anything to reliable make that clunky if indestructible bolt any smoother. I’m surprised though that they didn’t use the Mauser-style turned down bolt from the M27rv more widely, even just that is such a huge ergonomic improvement.
You might want to add that the Mosin rifles were also used against the Polish, Lithuanians, Mongolians, Ukranians, Latvians, Estonians, Georgians, Austrians, Hungarians, Turkish, Bulgarians, Romanians, and even the British, Americans, Czechoslovakians, French, Greeks, and Italians.
Most of these are a result of the Russian Civil War and only saw limited use against some of these powers, but it did happen. It’s certainly an interesting aspect that this rifle has engaged nearly every European and American country in existence.
I’ve got my own 1930 Izhevsk Mosin Nagant 91/30 that I picked up from a private dealer. Very nice rifle, the bore is immaculate and the stock is in pretty good shape for an 80 year old rifle. The numbers match but I personally think that the ones on the bolt and floorplate were stamped, and the butt plate was lined out, but whatever. The bolt is smoother than some of my modern day rifles, and giving the chamber a good cleaning is a good solution if you have sticky bolt. I finally got a chance to shoot it this past weekend and it went very well. I shot about 20 surplus rounds and about 5 commercial rounds. The recoil really isn’t that bad, and I’m only 150 pounds. I wasn’t even using a rubber butt pad, just the steel one. As long as you hold it good and tight, you’ll be okay. Shooting 148 grain surplus is also good for recoil as I shot 182 grain Prvi Partizan ammo, which had more felt recoil. The surplus does not “kick like a mule”, contrary to what other people might say, even the heavier stuff doesn’t kick like a mule. You want something that kicks like a mule? Shoot a 7mm Remington Magnum in 175 grain bullet for some recoil. The Mosins really aren’t that bad. But anyway, I love the rifle, it has become my favorite. It’s a little piece of history that happens to shoot well. And like others said, you can’t beat the price.
Having ownership of each of the several countries rifles of the time period they were used I would agree with all of you. Each has its own flaws and positive points. But I will stick with my 91 with a laminent stock. OOOHHH pretty amber red color. I went and spent some money on the young miss and gave her some optical improvement by installing a PU scope. Perfect set up. How many of you have set up your AR to have optics AND back-up iron sights for mucho dinero? Well the nagant was the first to be prepared. As far as caliber goes, the 30 cal will always be the preferred cartridge no matter what part of the world you are from. I guess I got lucky with a rifle that shoots 2 inch groups at 100 yards. not shabby at all for the price. Mausers ar enfields or springfields 3 was considered just fine and is usually what you will get with any of these rifles. usually.
Ok must go now a metal target plate is talking trash about my baby.
Gotta give it some lessons in courtesy and respect.
well the scope mount you talk about shouldn’t even be on it, it should be a PU scope a regular scope just looks like crap on it while the PU is historically accurate and doesn’t require rifle modifications
I own a mosin 1891/30, made at tula in 1933. The rifle is a great bargain and value at $89.95 online. I shoot 203 grain soft point commercial ammo. at $8.95 for a box of 20, also online. I find the mosin comfortable to shoot and handle. It sometimes takes a little muscle to cycle the bolt, especially after it heats up, but this rifle has never failed to operate. The cartridges will rimlock occasionally, but a sharp slap on the bolt handle is enough to easily chamber the round. More often than not, I use the palm of my hand to slap the bolt when cycling the action anyway! This is one tough, reliable and simple rifle! Smooth? nyet!, but it goes BOOM every time!
I have a 1943 M 91/30 which I bought in a unfired/unissued state. Unfortuanatly here in NZ we get the sharp end of the stick price wise, mine cost $300.00 nz dollars. I am currently looking to purchase from a dealer another mosin M 91/30. He too has a stock of unfired/unissued rifles, Hex and round reciever models from the Tula and Izhevsk factorys. He has agreed to let me select from his stock so I am keeping my fingers crossed I can find a real treasure amongst them.
After paying $300NZ fora Mosin, I hope you’ll at least be able to buy cheap ammo! When it comes to hunting and shooting, we sometimes forget how good we have it here in the States, and how difficult and costly it can be for people like yourself in other modern democracies.
I would love to know more about the shooting sports and self-defense in NZ. Has your government gone as far as the Australians have to demonize and restrict gun ownership?
Hi Chris, our gun laws are not as bad as Australia. After sitting a basic licence, theory and multi choice written test we get a A category licence. This allows me to own most shotguns and rifles except pistol grip semi autos and pistols. Semi’s on a A cat need to be pinned so the mag holds no more than 7 shots. We have rifle ranges varying from 200-1000 yards around the country and pistol clubs etc. A good forum here is http://www.fishnhunt.co.nz
I own a Mosin 91/30 and an M44, they shoot as I had expected after reaserching them before purchasing. They are among the easiest to disassemble and clean. I was a Navy Corpsman and served with the Marines and have had the pleasure of shooting some of the most exciting and exotic weapons on the planet earth. The Mosin in comparison is dependable, shoots accurately and I know no matter the elements this gun will shoot – it is a BUG(Big Ugly Gun). I have the most fun at the range with the M44 when I shoot as the people around me are going pop-pop-pop, then I come out and go B A N G -B A N G, damn get the fire extinguisher – people stop and look wondering what I am shooting. All in all the mosin is a reliable fun and affordable gun to have in any collection.
I have owned two finn m39’s. a 1970, and vkt 1942. Couldnt hit the inside of a barn with either one of them. Have a 44 tikka 91/30 with the blade front sight that is deadly! Far better rifle for sure. One M/N that suprises me is the 91/59 carbine! Dead on deadly! they took time to get the sights right on these. carol
Who says Mosins aren’t tack-drivers? With a Mojo ghost-ring sight and Partizan factory ammo, my 1940 Tula long rifle will always put 5 shots in a 1″ group at 100 yards if I hold it straight.
I think Mozzies get a bad rep because of the atrocious milsurp ammo they tend to get fed on and the relatively crude ladder sights. Good modern commercial ammo or handloads plus a decent aftermarket sight (*not* the made-in-a-tractor-factory Soviet issue scope with its massive but unstable iron mounting plate) turn the Mozzie into a contender out to 300 yards.
Tom sooo damned right about the grade of ammo and accuracy achieved. My Finnish mid war rifle….D …SA…and Tula made markings on it…1939 vintage is a straight shooter and can be irratic
as well. Having fired approx. 500 rounds through it using ammo from 147grain to 203 grain for dropping
a 350 lb boar…..one shot and three steps…all she wrote….at about 180 yards…the secret is better grade
ammo and a 147-174 grain max round. It tends to shoot flatter and more consistent than older mil-spec
ammo. Results are consistent tight groups. I use a long view4 power scope on an SKS frame mount
over the original sight base. Off the bags it hits five rounds inside 3inches at 100 yards…..THAT will
end life in anything you dare shoot at! Off hand position hits groups about 5-7 inches consistent using
147 Grain Wolf ammo. Using “can-packed” cheap ammo nearly doubles the grouping size
My mosin is a beast,
It’s a 91/30 and for the longest time I ve fired bulk ammo( 440 rounds for 85 dollars) . I can have a 3-4in grouping, standing up, iron sight, shooting at a foot and a half by foot and a half plate at 115 yards.
Have you ever put the bayonet on a 91/30 ? It’s a shorter javelin. No need to get close and personal with the mosin at all.
I will agree It’s not so good for a massive horde of zombies or a shit load of people coming at you(5 rounds…), but if you want to drop someone with heavy body armor, kill an animal 3 times your size, hit someone from a greater distance, or just want to scare any predator away in a mile radios , the rifle is perfect .
I think $ to gun ratio you can’t find anything better.
I have developed a cam type safety for the 91/30 and make scope mounts with or wihout open sights. The bolt handle must be bent and extended to provide clearance for the scope.
Do you sale your mounts?Pics?
Some more interesting things. First there are dovetails under the site. Just punch out the two pins to get to them. Then standard .22 scope rings can be used to mount a scout scope (aka Long Eye Relief / LER / hand gun scope)
[IMG]http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu47/grapefarmer/scopemount2.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu47/grapefarmer/scopemount1.jpg[/IMG]
Also, for the small varmint there is a cheep bore adapter (purchased from sportsman guide) that allows you to shoot 32 S&W Long and 32autos hand gun ammo. It like shooting a .22 – Its a one shot deal, shoot then manually load the adapter again. Its as quite as a .22 too.
[IMG]http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu47/grapefarmer/32_adapter.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu47/grapefarmer/32_adapter2.jpg[/IMG]
I have two M38 Mosins and a M 91/30 and I think they are great.
I got a turned down bolt body from Rock solid industries for $ 60.00
and it is rock solid, love it. Put it on one of the M 38. Had to notch the stock
but no big deal. Also put recoil pad that adds about an inch to the stock, and
is made of leather that has velcro on it and I can easily change from one Mosin to another. I re finished the stocks without loosing any of the markings and was asked
at the local Gun shop how much I would charge to do a couple for him. I haven’t
come up with a price as of wet.
I bought my Mosin-Nagant from Big-5. Heavily cosmolined, but good bore and action. Cleaned it up using Easy Off Oven Cleaner, hot shower, fine steel wool and boiled linseed oil. Gets lots of attention at the gun range…everyone wants to shoot it.
What are some scopes that work with that S&K mount?
The Mosin rifle is the most fun to shoot,Big Bad-Ass rifle a guy or gal can legally own ! It is super affordable , the ammo is in the 20 cents each range for bulk surplus and they are generally rather accurate . We enjoy busting concrete blocks at 100 yards , making geysers out of 2 liter plastic soda bottles and shooting zombie targets . I brought one to a family gathering recently out at a farm owned one of the family .
All the men and a couple of the gals wanted to shoot it ! Everyone got a chance to pop a couple of rounds ; but I had one big complaint : YOU ONLY BROUGHT 30 ROUNDS OF AMMO ! ! ! ! BRING MORE NEXT TIME !
I mounted a B-Square mount, and slapped a used leupold 4x compact, bent bolt kit, and recoil pad. Total with labor was about $275 to do, with $100 for the rifle, so I now have just under $400 in it. But shooting at 18 cents per round for 7.62R compared to surplus 308 at 50 cents per, the rifle will pay for itself soon enough! Cleaning the corrosive out of the barrel is easy with hot soapy water. On a good day I can get 2-inch groups. The Bulgarian surplus ammo shoots just as good as Brown bear with 2-3 inch groups. Easy shooting out to 400 meters
The best thing about having a 91/30 is that for a hundred and twenty bucks, I got a SHTF/WROL weapon, a deer hunting weapon, a rabbit hunting weapon (after I convert a bunch of these “non-reloadable” steeel/Berdan cases to use shotgun primers and load them with tiny charges of pistol powder and round balls), a zombie slayer, a car stopper (it’ll punch half inch steel at more than a hundred yards), a fun shooter (yeah, it pounds my shoulder, that’s part of the fun), a genuinely brutal club, and a top-notch pry bar — and the whole kit only weighs about ten pounds (including the cleaning/servicing tools and bayonet). A case of ammo will cost more than the rifle did, but that’s enough to shoot fairly intensively for a year. Hunting ammo (in reloadable brass/Boxer cases) is still only about a dollar a round — and mine, at least, is accurate enough with forty year old Bulgarian surplus rounds to depend on hitting the kill zone of a whitetail out to 200 yards or more with the iron sights (it should do at least that well with Prvi Partizan or handloads).
I’m seriously considering getting another to bury in a plastic pipe with twenty or so packets of rounds…
You cannot have too many Mosins. I have “new ones” (armory refurbs), old ones, Finn ones, Finn-captured ones, a bunch. I think they are beautiful, shoot great, are indestructible and make a very big hole in anything they are shot at.
I find that adding about 3/4 to 1″ pad of paper towels, I used old brown plain paper towels the military used, traced around butt plate and cut out, stuffed into a slip-on butt-plate shoulder pad reduced the recoil quite a bit! I believe the air space retained in the paper towels acts as a shock absorber, like you have on your car! May not look kosher, but sure saves your shoulder!
I got this Mosin-Nagant (1942) a short while ago. Spent hours cleaning it. Baked it in the sun. Got El-Cheapo Russian ammo, 440 rds for about 85$. Spent two hours
trying to open it. Four letter words became eight letter words. The cat hid, the wife
was in shock.
Tried it out first time. One boom, two booms, three booms, and the bolt jammed.
Slapped him hard. It loosened up. Range people got bent out of shape. Apparently ammo was not brass (Openrange near Louisville, KY). So, now looking for range
that accepts steel Russian ammo! Other than that, I may not have Bridget Bardot in my hands, but ‘Olga’ here is very rugged and has a charm of her own.
“Hanlon’s Razor baby: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”
Heinlein dammit, Heinlein’s Razor.
Have a VZ 24,which is the Chezchoslovakian version,good shooter,heavy though,plan to add a rail and scope.Only thing I don’t care for is the straight bolt handle.
Everybodys all “Texas this Texas that yeehaw alamo”. For those of you complaining that it’s a blue state in disguise, come to Alabama. Down here, we’re red as the blod in my veins. We may have shall issue soon.
I remember after Oklahoma City, there was a call for chemical tracer tags to used in propellant powders to ID suspects, even though OC was done with a fertilizer bomb. The propellant makers said no because the tracer tags specified would “decompose with an exothermic reaction” after a few years on the shelf. Basically, the tracer tags would cause the powder to combust or explode spontaneously.
Wait and see, but I can predict a run on propellant powders in anticipation of restrictions or bans.
The only thing better than his shooting is his mustache.
Ev’ry decent gun
Is now in a cop’s home safe.
The junk guns get crushed…
Need to add a widget for one-click FaceBook sharing on these.
Seriously, this is the best Mosin review EVER. Spot on, man. Funny, informed and well written. Keep it up!
Have an M44 in the Transfer-flow tool box/50 gallon fuel tank (it locks). It does not go into Mexico with us (Yucatan the last 3 years). With bayonet fixed it does group around 5 cm at 100 m (2″ at 100 m). Greatly appreciated the video on properly utilizing the chargers. Put some lithium grease on the inner lips of the chargers and they work superbly. I patrolled for 8 months as a 173rd LRRP and no on with more than a few patrols called the VC and NVA (PAVN when we deployed as 1/501 PIR to become 4/503 PIR in 1966) anything but Mr. Charles. We got to see them “at home” on movement and while observing base camps. I must admit I prefer my H&K 91 but am not about to leave in the pickup.
These weapons destroyed the best the germans had to throw at the russians,just like a ak-47 its simple,affordable,indestrutable,and all that adds up to a weapon id be proud to own just for the historical side.
I own a nagant – they are a fine weapon. Or at the very least, they do what a firearm is supposed to do. It will hit your target. Doesn’t matter when it was made, how much it costs, who thinks what about it. Does it hit the intended place you were aiming at…yes. Nuff said.
Avoid wasted cost of mucking with bolt to fit a scope… instead….
Use a cheap 10$ mount and a $50 LER scope http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/mosin-nagant/65210-updated-info-scout-scoping-m91-m91-30-m91-59-a.html
If you want to splurge … buy a $30 Limbsaver slip-on butt pad (#10546 SMALL) that also gives you an extra inch of pull.
For all you Mosin Haters out there I have only one thing to say to you. your all a bunch of whinny little girls, I am sooo sick and tired of the BS comments from enfield and mauser owners complaining about how the mosins bolt is not as smooth and a mausers or enfields , who cares? I have seen all the torture tests done on the mosin and every one of those tests concluded that the mosin nagant is nearly indistructable . and are far more reliable than its world war two peers. and so what if its not the prettiest rifle, do you honestly think that your perty little enfield is going to make a damn bit of difference?. I could care less whether the M91/30 Mosin Nagant is the prettiest or the most accurate rifle now or then. I care that its reliability and durability far exceeds that of nearly all modern hunting and many military rifles of today and sures hell beats the crap out of the mauser and fricking enfields. mosins have earned their reputation and deserve your respect, so if you can’t do that then can it , your opinions are crap and not based on historical real world fact.
Hahahaha. Preach, brother. Mosin Nagant is life.
Hey there James Crandall…Tell us how you really feel !…LOL…I totally agree with you. Although I do respect, admire and love my Mausers and Enfields,I would never put down a Mosin Nagant, evident by my prior post. The action on every Mosin I own is just as smooth as my Mausers and Enfields. I doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out how to make them operate smoothly. For all the so called drawbacks of the Mosins, there is a simple and inexpensive solution that only takes a little TLC and patience to correct. As I said once before, ya gotta give credit where credit is due. The Russians held off the Germans with the Mosin during WWII, inflicting some serious damage. It may not be as stylish as the Mausers and Enfields, but it hits what you aim for and if that be a deer, bear, coyote or human its gonna incapacitate them if not kill them. If 1″ groups is what you are after, just don’t take your Mosin to a target match. I’m just finished working on a 91/30 that Bubba had got his mitts on prior to cashing it in at the pawn shop where I found it. The barrel had been cut as well as the stock, but the bore was shiny with strong rifling and no pitting, which amazed me in itself. A little TLC, re-crowning, pillaring the action, installing an adjustable ball-bearing trigger ($15) refinishing the stock and installing a new CNC see-through LER scope mount ($45), which gives you iron sights by replacing the original Mosin rear sight as well as allows you to mount a LER scope and a CNC replacement front sight ($25, silver soldered in place), threaded and silver soldered a CNC muzzle break ($25) and adding a $65 LER scope, I have myself a good SHTF scout rifle for less than $250. I took it to the range yesterday and like my other Mosins, it shot 3″ groups at 200 yds all day with Wolf S.P. ammo. The muzzle brake definitely helped calm down the recoil and it didn’t sound any louder to me. I have another one that shoots 2″ groups at 200 yds that I gave some TLC to for a total investment of less than $250. The satisfaction I get from bringing Bubba’d old warhorses back to a meaningful life is priceless…but the fact that they both out-shoot a new Mossberg 100 ATR .270 tells me my investment in both rifles is not a case of “garbage in, garbage out”… Rugged, reliable, cheap…yes… A waste of money on a piece of junk…Definitely not ! Bottom line is : Mosin Nagants make for a good base to build a inexpensive rifle for hunting and SHTF defense.
Has anybody tried Magna-porting one of these things?
I have been wanting one of these for a while, but I just don’t know if I’m ready for one. What would be your number 1 reason for owning a Mosin-Nagant?
My number one reason for owning a Mosin Nagant was reliability . Put simply there really isn’t a rifle that can match the Mosin in this arena. The Mosin Nagant can take anthing you throw at it and keep going. you can see proof of this on youtube, just type Mosin Nagant Torture test in the search window and watch what these men did to try and break there mosin . and they had to go to unbelievable extremes to break it. they tied the rifle to their pickup dragged it at full speed threw streams, mud , gravel. then they slammed the but on several cinder blocks crushing everyone to rubble. then they packed as much pure gun powder in a round and tried to blow up the receiver and THEY COULDN’T DO IT. at the end of the test the mosin was still functioning with only a cracked stock and a stuck bolt. beyond my number one reason, the Mosin Nagant is very accurate, and is capable of bringing down any large game on the continent and yes it can bring down a full sized kodiak bear. and the largest elks or moose. so what are you waiting for, get yourself one two or even three LOL and stock up on ammo, also make sure you use windex to flush out the bores the military surplus ammo is corrosive and can rust the barrel if you don’t clean soon after the rage. this is frankly the Mosin Nagants Kryptonite .
sorry LOL I meant to say range not rage lol
I have a remington mosin naget with the czar stamp; soviet star and north Vietnam. It was captured by a killed VC sniper. It made its way back around the world.
Mine signature is in there as well. I don’t think it’ll make a difference, but I’ll fight this BS legislation as long as I’m in CA. Heck, I’ll even fight it after I leave this state.
Shooting prairie dogs is wanton destruction compared to killing bear. You are just stimulating their capability to produce larger litters while doing nothing significant to control population. Meanwhile creating huge suffering. All those dogs get reared, and educated, etc… You blow them up and for nothing. Not that I am actually against it. And sure, with enough shooters, they will thin out.
On the other hand to hunt bear legally around here is to eat them. You can trophy hunt, or control hunt, or rug hunt, or whatever, but if you aren’t eating them, you are breaking the law. At the same time one is controlling populations, beating them back into the bush so they know their place, securing a good rug, as well as the food. Cool animals, but at least there is a purpose.
SIG.. just because the HK reminds of a porsche no matter how hard you try the Porsche is still based off a beetle.
For those of you that may have forgotten look at this.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/10/foghorn/new-pistol-caliber-carbine-aero-survival-rifle/
First time I heard of this is on TTAG.
The money shot: ” a member of the project’s volunteer resident watch and a public housing resident for 40 years.”. Really? Forty years? So much for the American Dream and upward mobility or a rising tide lifting all boats. The “Blue Model” has been an abject failure and has done incalculable damage to our country’s social fabric. God damn the progressives and every last little thing that they stand for.
That sign basically advertises that this is a victim zone and the chance of a bad person being met with force is significantly reduced.
Fortunately there are other places to get a beer and burger.
The last animal I killed for sport was also a bird. I was 15 and I shot a male cardinal with an RWS pellet gun just to prove I could. I had shot a lot of birds for fun but this one bothered me. One shot to the head from about 10 yards. It was cold and I remember the blood steaming from the half of his head that was left. I felt sick. Never again. Glad to see I’m not the only one who felt like this.
My son who is 13 can operate the “safety” quite easily
He has a future doing something. I’m not sure what. But, something involving strength, and dexterity.
Sorry to change the subject:
Do any of you fine gentlemen know if the current batch of Mosin snipers offererd by AtlanticFirearms are authentic, or faked? I could not get a response to an email I sent to Atlantic over 8 days ago asking very detailed questions. And of course no one is available to answer the phone. Their website has detailed info, but not detailed enough to answer if, for example, rifles are ALL matched to scope base and/or scope, if rifle has serial # on barrel shank, etc. I’ve done searches on this and no one has offered any evidence either way.
Please let me know if you’re looking for a writer for your blog.
You have some really good posts and I believe I would be a good asset.
If you ever want to take some of the load off, I’d love to write some articles
for your blog in exchange for a link back to mine.
Please blast me an e-mail if interested. Thank you!
Terrific work! This is the kind of info that should be
shared across the net. Shame on the search engines for no longer positioning this post higher!
Come on over and talk over with my site . Thank you =)
Mosins may not be all that precise with the cheap milsurp ammo, but they take on new levels of precision if you handload. The rifles do shoot straight, and I’ve got an M91/30 that is actually just under MOA with modern Prvi Partizan ammo. Yeah, I got lucky and found a gun that likes that load. Remember, Simo was nailin’ enemy Soviet army troops, with irons, at 400+ meters with his Mosin, out in the woods. Several of those were headshots.
Also, like M1903A3’s, Mosins are very cast bullet-friendly. That means you can take your handy M44 (or similar) carbine, load it with Ed Harris’s “Universal Load”, and go deer huntin’ with it in the woods. A full-length M91 will do just as well with that load.
Given their recent popularity here in the good ol’ U-S-of-A, say you’ve got a Mosin with a messed-up barrel. If you want to have a little fun with a project gun, aftermarket barrels from McGowan and such are available. They’ll even do it in 0.308″ so you can use the better bullets found over here like the Hornady A-Max.
– T
You should learn history detlef by saying Russia lose the war me by they have crapy rifles but for some reson they end up in USA and people enjoying them . If you say usa won’t the war check the date when usa joking the ww2
Nice write up if a bit condescending. I enjoyed the tongue in cheek remarks. But, I want to disagree with a few points, one strongly.
Collectibility. To many take a look a Mosin and figure it automatically =$0. No automatically so. There are many variations of these rifles. Sometimes, and as is so often the case in collecting milsurp rifles, a marking can be the difference between cheap and valuable, sometimes VERY valuable. Before tampering with any old gun (or anything for that matter) know what you have! I am a moderator collector’s forum site and have very often seen valuable guns RUINed in ignorance. There was a fellow that came and posted that he had scrubbed and cleaned the stock of his Civil War Spencer carbine and what should he do next. All I could tell him was “cry.” You the picture. Of course, I once paid $97 for a Finn M28 because a pawn shop owner thought all Mosins were cheap 91/30s. (:>D
As for the safety, the image shown is part of your problem. Wrong technique. Get your first and second fingers over the knob, pull back and twist. It works pretty well. At least you KNEW the gun has a safety. Many will tell you it doesn’t.
One more thing, re cleaning. You wrote; “Another crucial tip: corrosive primers require you to give the rifle a quick cleaning with Windex or another ammonia-based cleaner promptly after shooting…”
That is a myth. Oh, it won’t HURT anything. But the crucial element is water. Just plain old H2O. Nothing more is needed to dissolve the corrosive salts from the primers. Ammonia is good for copper fouling but there’s nowhere near enough in blue window cleaners to do for that and ammonia has nothing to do with it. Myself, I like a formula of dawn dish soap and water. The soap removes the carbon fouling very well.
Question for all Mosin lovers who may know:
Having purchased two Ishevsk Mosin snipers from Classic, I am stumped by this… Each rifle is stamped with a “C” within a circle, along with the usual markings, serials, etc. Only Ishevsk Snipers are apparently stamped with that. We all know the Tula’s are “CH”
Why do most “experts” (including the official sites on Mosins) only ever acknowledge Tula CH sniper markings, but not Ishevsk C marks?? I only ever found one blog where a guy with an Ishevsk sniper commented that they all have that. Again, it is clear that Ishevsk DID mark their snipers with a “C” inside a half circle as ID.
My Marines purchased a Mosin Nagant M44 for me as a parting gift and I guess I was blessed because my rifle can hit 1″ groups at 300 yards. I have never had a more accurate rifle as this Lil guy! Kicks like a mule, but gets the job done. SEMPER FI!
You didn’t say what ammo you were using. I have a Tula 1934 91/30 that will shoot 2 inch groups at 200 yds with 1971 Russian surplus. I’ve shot some Privi match that brought it down to less than 1 inch in that same 200 yds. This is with a Rock Solid Ind. mount, and 4-9 BSA scope. I sure would like to know what you were running down that barrel.
And now it’s time for two cents from the peanut gallery!
Those of you looking to get a scope mount, please be aware of the Brass Stacker scope mount. Having run around half or 2/3 of a spam can through this gun using the Brass Stacker mount and an NCStar pistol scope, I can say it’s plenty durable. It requires no drilling or tapping, and it even mounts in such a way that your stock ironsights are still usable if SHTF whilst scoping zombies from 500 yards away.
Dear Sirs;
I enjoyed the article and the comments regarding Mosin Nagant Rifles.
I purchased one and haven’t fired it yet. Still learning the weapon .
Can someone explain how to use the rear sight ? I’m not familiar with that type of sight.
Also, what holds the front sight in place?
Thanks,
Tom Mercure
Unless you’ve found a dragoon, or foreign contract Mosin, the rear sight is a simple notched blade. The numbered graduation on 91/30 Mosins is in meters. Earlier rifles were numbered in arshins, an obscure Russian measurement equal to, I believe, about 27 inches. Since most Mosins have been re-arsenaled You rear sight is probably in meters. You simply squeeze the pads on each side, and slide it to whatever yardage you’re shooting at. Anything 200 meters, and under just use the lowest setting. In fact most Mosins shoot 8-12 inches high at 100 yds. That has something to do with how the Russian army trained their soldiers to shoot.
The front sight is simply “drifted” into a dovetail notch in the top of the barrel. It can be adjusted by drifting, or using a special front sight tool, or making a tool to do it. I use a small padded vise, and some little pieces I made to fit on the vise.
Elevation adjustment can be done by using heat shrink, and adding height to the front sight.
Adjustment on the front sight should be toward the point of impact. In other words, if your shot hits high you need to raise the front sight. If your shot hits to the right you need to move the sight to the right. If it’s to the left, go left. These are done in really tiny little increments. A thousandth of inch at your front sight might be a foot at 100 meters.
http://www.smithsights.com has elevation adjustable front sights for your Mosin. Windage adjustment tools are available on line, but aren’t cheap. I did my first windage adjustments on a Mosin using a Visegrip, and little pieces of shim stock. (AKA old steel cases cut with a Dremel tool.) I’ve also used pieces of trimmed electrical wire. It’s a trial, and error/hit, or miss proposition. But, it works.
I’ve had a few Mosins over the years. My first one I paid $60 dollars for. The price has risen sharply in the last few years. For a few years I bought Mosins, cleaned them up, did some fine tuning on them, and gave them to family members for Christmas presents. They were that inexpensive. All the Mosins I’ve had were “decent” shooters. Three have been exceptional. One I’m working right now has a Rock Solid scope mount on it, and is shooting very well out to 200 meters, using Privi Partisan HPBT Match ammo.
I’ll keep messing with Mosins until the ammo, or money runs out. They’re fine rifles for the money.
Here’s how to spot a fake Mosin PU sniper:
1. Year of production other than 1942-1944 (a few 1945 are rare).
2. Caliber outside the 7.62-7.64 mm range.
3. Rough finish, receiver not machined outside. Most sniper rifles were specially produced by highly skilled workers, and following pre-war standards, not selected from mass production as some believe.
4. Frivolous scope number on the left side of the barrel shank. The number of the original scope is usually stricken out. PU scopes were produced at 5 different factories, each with their own numbering system.
5. Bolt handle welded on or not one piece of metal with the body.
6. No dent on the lower surface of the bolt handle stem where it is bent.
7. Old style factory markings on the bolt (Sestroretsk arrow, Izhevsk bow, or Tula hammer).
8. Scope mount precision cast (not milled), with smooth surface and indistinct markings.
9. Vertical adjustment screws of the mount are not pinned.
Where are people finding this price??? 89 bucks?? Yeah, maybe for a stock
Yeah. I wonder too. For a long time you saw them from $80-$90. But, those days seem to be gone. I haven’t seen one locally for less than $160.00 in maybe 3 years. The one I paid $60.00 for was probably the worst one I ever bought, but even it shot well after some tuning.
Somebody up there told how Mosin Bulets were flying through hanging metal targets although he did not mention how thick was the metal. Please take a look what we experienced with a 3/8″ (10mm) metal piece: http://www.meetup.com/Orange-County-Russian-Friends/photos/21688902/#360494232
cool
One Mosin Nagant is a curiosity not a SHTF gun. A crate of Mosin Nagants on the other hand is a SHTF arm your whole neighborhood gun. You can still in 2016 buy whole crates of these at a time for very reasonable prices.
while also following months and holidays.
Butt ugly, fires rimmed cartridges, least ergonomic rifle ever made and the weapon of America’s enemies. All you sycophant Moyzin fanboys need to quickly find the nearest Democrat buy back program and dump those POS things as fast as your little footys can get you there. Seriously?? Moyzins? ROTFLMAO!!
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Very well done.
I picked mine up for $100 years ago and 2 tuna cans of ammo. Total was $300.
I have since upgraded the stock to an ArchAngel style to mitigate the recoil.
I had it tapped for a scope and had the bolt turned down and swept
Back slightly.
I had a cheap 5-25x scope on it for awhile.
Then I ruined the barrel while cleaning. A buddy said I had to use ammonia to get the corrosive primer residue out. But I got distracted and walked away. Now the barrel looks like an ocean scene inside.
But with hundreds of rounds of ammo it back to doing an upgrade.
Took it to my gunsmith for a new #4 barrel 27” threaded SS barrel with 1/10 twist. Upgrading the trigger to a timney 2# trigger and a new coating overall.
My new Vortex Venom 5-25x56FFP scope (https://vortexoptics.com/optics/riflescopes/venom.html).
It’s not going to be my best rifle but it will be one of my more capable long range guns.
I am in my mid 50s with 2 new knees so I am not a door kicker or runner. I am more of a stand off shooter and take out Zombies from a terrain feature away.
Email me and I will send you pictures when I get it back.
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always great post out there