The problem with shotguns is that the ammunition is huge and awkward. As a result, the traditional way to keep a shotgun running has been a tube magazine running along the bottom of the barrel. It works well for things like skeet and hunting, but when you get into “tactical” uses or competition shooting the game becomes a test of who can stuff rounds in their gun faster. The VEPR-12 semi-automatic magazine fed shotgun from Molot seems designed to change the game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwzV5-y8Od8
Semi-auto AK-style shotguns aren’t new, and we’ve reviewed them before on the site. My Saiga-12 shtogun review comes to mind, in which I detailed exactly why the gun was a piece of crap and the fan boys retorted with “well, obviously you need to fix the gun before you test it! You didn’t give it a fair test!” To which I reply that guns are tested in factory condition, and a gun that needs to be “fixed” before you can actually use it is a pretty piss poor gun. With the VEPR-12, it looks like some of those problems have been fixed.
Most obvious is probably that the gun comes from the factory configured the way you’d want it. Instead of the traditional stock there’s a skeletonized tubular stock and a pistol grip. There’s a full length rail along the top of the receiver for your optics and other gubbins. And instead of rocking the magazines into place like on a standard AK, they simply slot straight into the receiver. Oh, and the best part:
The bolt is held open after the last round fires. No longer do you have to count your rounds and then muscle the new magazine into place with the bolt forward, it locks open just like an AR-15. It’s much more convenient and a lot quicker to reload.
The effect of these changes is that the gun is a lot easier to handle straight out of the box. reloads are quicker, movement is much more fluid, and the manual of arms is much more similar to the AR-15 rifle. But still, there are problems.
First on the list of gripes is the safety. Instead of being a straight AK-style safety, Molot has added a flap that extends down near the pistol grip with the idea that you can then use your trigger finger to manipulate the safety. It’s good in theory, but in practice it’s annoying and somewhat sharp. I’m not a big fan of thin pieces of metal jutting out off a firearm, especially near my hand, and especially when I’m going to fire slugs through it. It made firing the gun somewhat uncomfortable for me.
In the same area is the bolt release. Positioned about in the same spot that the bolt hold open tab was for the Saiga-12 shotgun, the tab now works as a bolt release allowing you to press this one tab and let the bolt slide home. Ignoring for a minute that it’s inside the trigger guard which is a huge safety concern to some people, the role reversal means that there’s no easy way to lock the bolt open when the gun runs dry. You need to insert and empty magazine and then rack the action back, which is an extra step for something so crucial.
The sights are nice, and the full length rail along the top is a very nice touch, but it would be more useful if the stock wouldn’t get in the way so much. There’s a rubber pad on the stock that wallows from one side to the other much like the cheek pad on a SVD rifle, and while it seems like a good idea in practice it tends to move around quite a lot and just get in the way. With the cheek pad in place I couldn’t get a good sight picture, and with it removed I couldn’t get any kind of cheek or even chin weld on the stock. It’s annoying and frustrating, and if this were my gun that would be the first thing to go.
There are some really nifty features on this gun, and it definitely is an improvement from the Saiga-12, but I’m running into the same problem that I ran into with the Saiga: what do you use it for?
If you’re thinking about home defense, that’s probably the best application I could think of for the gun. Get yourself some higher capacity magazines and prop it by the bedroom door loaded with buckshot and you’re nearly guaranteed to kill whatever busts down your door. But the form factor of the magazines limit your capacity, and are you really going to take the time to strap on extra shotgun magazines before checking on what that noise downstairs was?
Trap and skeet shooting? The gun suffers from the same parallax issues that the Saiga had, since the sights are over an inch above the top of the barrel, and if you’re spending this kind of money on a dedicated trap or skeet gun there are much better suited choices out there.
3-gun competition? If you’re running in open division then this is definitely an option, but consider that for the same price you can have a Mossberg 930 with an XRAIL and have 22 rounds at your disposal before needing to reload, and still have a normal shotgun in every other way. The biggest magazines I’ve seen fro the VEPR-12 are 12 round magazines, and those require compliance with that pesky Federal statute 922(r) before using them in your gun. Even with the availability of Saiga-12 and VEPR-12 shotguns, the pro 3-gun shooters still don’t use them.
The VEPR-12 is definitely an improvement over the Saiga-12, but as far as I can tell it’s still a solution looking for a problem. A nifty range gun no doubt, but if I’m spending this much money I’d like to actually be able to use it for something.
VEPR-12 Shotgun
Specifications:
Caliber: 12ga
Barrel: 19 inches
Capacity: 4+1
MSRP: $1,199 (Buds)
Ratings (Out of Five Stars):
All ratings are relative compared to the other weapons in the gun’s category. Overall rating is not mathematically derived from the previous component ratings and encompasses all aspects of the firearm including those not discussed.
Accuracy: * * * *
There’s an issue with aiming this gun, thanks to the parallax resulting from the sights being an inch above the top of the barrel. You can adjust, but shooting at different distances will be an issue.
Ergonomics: * * * *
It’s better than the Saiga-12, but the safety is an issue for me and the gun feels like it has very sharp edges and rough machining.
Ergonomics Firing: * * * *
Not bad, actually. Light recoil for a 12 gauge.
Customization: * * * *
Rails all over the place, and more after market mods than you can shake a stick at.
Overall Rating: * * *
The Saiga-12 costs about $610 these days, and this gun retails for nearly twice that much. It’s an improvement over the old Saiga-12, but I wouldn’t judge it being twice as good. Bring the price down around $800 and we’ll talk. In the meantime I’m giving it one more star than I gave the Saiga-12.
Congrats TTAG. Love you long time!
Oh noes! He found our only weakness, monies! Oh great Bloomberg, we’ll be good, whatever you do, just don’t encourage your idiot millionaire friends to waste their…ahem DESTROY the gun lobby with your powerful monies!
Also, it’s a little known fact that the NRA, the Gun Lobby and all the other gun boogeymen absolutely heart the NFA and the wonderful stamp program it created. If you were to spend some of that money on trying to get it repealed…oh noes! I’ve said too much!
FINALLY! This is what I’ve always been saying; THE FIRST STEP IS EDUCATION. Bring gun safety back in classes. There is hope for America, yes, yes there is. Yes, WE can TOO. Bite that back, democrats.
With the success of the Monitor in battle, Jefferson Davis ordered development of personal armor to combat the Union numerical superiority.
I think I’d concealed carry anyway, no matter the law. What are the odds you’ll get in trouble? Most people are so oblivious they don’t see or hear their attackers. They won’t look at the lump in your pocket and say “That must be a pocket .380! OMG!”
I dont doubt that these will be good, while not famous for it the Russians do make good optics.
I am especially interested in the PN21K, I hope it doesn’t have IR: Is it possible to order one without the IR illuminator? I am asking this because artificial light for hunting is illegal in Norway, NV without an illuminator is okay since it doesn’t generate any light.
I note that she is a Democrat.
Not that Republicans don’t have negligent discharges, but…
“could open the door to increased violence”
This guy sounds like the stupidest kind of psychopath – one who goes around and picks fights with armed people.
Umm the XRAIL is $$$ ( I could buy two JM Mossburg 930s instead )– and puts a huge weight WAY out from the shooters body, so for less money I can pickup a 25 round drum magazine that I can slot in and out much easier than reloading the XRAIL. sure I’ll have to replace a couple parts — but the mag does count as one of them…
Oops, didn’t mention, the price of a Ford Explorer from 1998 ($900, new battery, tires, AWD!) to 2004 ($700, but, needs a $400 transmission!) and there are about 30 of them! Mine is now fitted out for Hog and Deer Hunting, with a steel cargo carrier I can slide into the 2″ Receiver Hitch!!
In July 2012 Leonard Embody was questioned/detained/arrested by some of Metro Nashville’s Finest. The video is on YouTube. Leonard can be seen wearing a ballistic vest and can be heard saying the reason he is wearing the vest is because he has a history of having police officers point their weapons at him. Honesty, I like it. So this is Leonard’s next purchase…. Stay tuned to his next video from Legislative Plaza wearing said new helmet.
African-Americans will never join the NRA en masse. Those who join now are criticized for not being black enough. Peer pressure can be a killer.
How come nobody wants to promote the Second Amendment Foundation? It seems that the SAF has done more for gun rights in the U.S. than any other organization…
He’s been crushed in the comments. Also his sentence construction sucks.
There is a little round button just behind the mag well, press that bitch up and rack the bolt. That is the bolt lock. Very easy to do.
…HK thinks you’re cool, and kinda likes you.
Still waiting on a Dune style “still suit” for desert combat. Or just an exo suit with a Gatling gun on the in of the arms.
How does “Rails all over the place, and more after market mods than you can shake a stick at” net a mere 4 for customization? Hell, you gave that GI 1911 with sights part of the slide and no rails a 5.
Because it’s not an AR. Fanbois are fanbois.
“To which I reply that guns are tested in factory condition, and a gun that needs to be “fixed” before you can actually use it is a pretty piss poor gun.”
So I suppose you ran your 3 gun AR bone stock with zero modifications then. Yeah. That’s what I thought.
Well plate armor like this is only suppose to cover the vitals in the chest.
Aw yeah, nice to see the intelligentsia gettin’ it right. 🙂
It vexes me that so few understand that causation and correlation are not the same.
Awesome.
weak
Uncool
Leupold bought redfield and are positioning their products for those of us who cannot afford leupold prices. Is a good brand with leupold standing behind it.
So, Mary. Can i facebook you?
I’ve heard that a 2 liter bottle, plastic, works as a suppressor. Never tried it.
OK, was an enjoyable first article, now where is follow up #2
I have heard that the dis-assembly pin tends to warp or mis-align relatively quickly on this firearm. Have they solved the dis-assembly pin warp problem on the VEPR 12 yet?
These are getting hard to come by. Just saw them in stock here http://www.birminghampistol.com/?product=vepr-12-gauge-ak-style-shotgun-semi-auto-folder-stock-welded-open
Yup–Thanks to BHO. I get that the Russians suck and always will pertaining to their foreign policy as well as their Red Brethren China. Yet I do not like the embargoes pertaining to Russia or China as it really only adversely effects respective citizens in both countries as well as the U.S..Now, transferring high-tech military type technology I get…
This review almost had me until two things happened. First, your limited thinking can’t come up with all the tactical and practical applications for a semi-auto shotgun that reloads quickly and easily? Shame on you. Then you mention the xrail as if it is a viable and useful alternative instead of the uber-expensive, unreliable, heavy piece of crap it is in reality? Double shame for being a shill.
Wow–lots of Russian shotgun hate…Too bad as while granted the Saiga only ran High Brass out of the box (at least mine did as well as others I have seen) the Vepr runs ALL ammo (bird-slug) absent one single modification for WAY <money (prior to the BHO BAN on AK's) then an BM4. I can't even say that about my Remington 1187P (perhaps the R12 will correct this..?). My Turkish Hatsan's also required some work for <full-power ammo..
I guess I'm different in that I never look for a "end-all-be-all" firearm be it hand/long. If you are a person that is looking for ONE gun then do your research and grab it but why badmouth others…?
Hey
I was looking for a buttstock for my Vepr 12 Molot. Wanted to obtain a collapsible
and if possible side folding stock, but most of available options required a special adaptor.
Chinese products were not taken into account as in the past already had some issues with them.
After a detailed search i’ve found this option from Israeli company Fab-Defence:
http://www.idf-tactical.com/Buttstocks/ShotgunsStocks/M4-VEPR-FKSB
I am familiar with their products for a quite a long time, but now they got a buttstock with adaptor
for Vepr built-in. In the buttstock there is shock-absorbing system and T6 hard anodized aluminum buffer tube.
Everything has passed very smoothly and after the order has been made in 2 days the parcel was sent out.
In case you look for improvement and tuning of your rifle i warmly suggest to consider this option.
It was immediately clear (especially after reading this authors Saiga 12 review) that he didn’t want to like this gun.
This review is full of inaccurate information.
The slide locks back easily by pushing the little button in front of the trigger guard (just behind the magazine release paddle). Although the slide release is inside the trigger guard, you have to put your finger behind the trigger and push quite hard to release. It is well designed and in a place that makes it easy to reload and shoot without moving your hand much. I just cannot see how this can be dangerous.
I fire the magnum slugs, I don’t see how the safety is a problem, no sharp metal jutting out.
The cheek pad is remarkably well designed, it can be moved out of the way, no problem for me, besides, most people will no doubt use a red dot sight, so sight picture will be unaffected.
And lastly, just my opinion, If paralax is an issue and you can’t compensate for 1″ then maybe a different hobby is better for you.
It sure has hell seems like a lot of people commenting on here have never even handled a Vepr 12….
I just bought a Vepr 12 a few weeks ago. Price was 799.99 and was from Classic Arms. It came with the fixed stock. I actually decided to put the Molot muzzle brake (well, the Carolina Shooter Supply brake knockoff) and YES, it significantly reduces recoil on the gun! I’ve gone up and down and read all these idiotic comments on how the muzzle brake won’t do anything…my god, people on here are retards. Shooting slugs from this shotgun was an absolute breeze…I was actually able to double tap quite frequently.
I also own a Mossberg 930 and I’ve fired slugs from my friend’s Savage 12 gauge. Although I like both these guns, shooting slugs from them can be painful, especially after a dozen shots. With the Vepr, I went through about 50 and didn’t have a sore shoulder.
got question how many atf going strp down one these just see ifi it complinant. fack is most usa parts not mark
atf got so so bussy they got better things to do the strip down your gun see if compliant probe is they need
cause to beleave its not they just cant arrest us or hold u, they need reason befor they ack,
once they have reason they check all your guns, but u have do ack break the law make atf see u,
u got stick out to them, no judge would give them cort order because they think your guns not complant
and yes they first need judge order or arrest u, there arrest found not sound leave them open to law sute
best point this is ohio man was open carry a gun wich is leagle police detain him with out cause orther then the gun they found he can sue the state and police. they said no one should be detain because of open carey of a gun, so u first need break the law, some kind law they take your gun do they have just cause to beleave gun not leagle ? is 2ed probem if gun not part of the arreast or being stop they cant check it, u need be on radar of atf or fbi, , saying this stay in complace of the laws u wont have probems the law can be challenge and defeated makes no sence , ack upgrading the gun to usa parts can make gun more latheal don’t they even know this,
Seriously….WTF did you just say??
Hold on, I speak jive…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXSLcYQHqFQ
Bet this gun would be ideal for sasquatch hunting. Alternate 00 buck with slugs and rock and roll the big apes.
I just read the review and comments section in its entirety…
Two words.
Clusterfuck Nation
s dogood is right you yankees stay up north and wallow in the mess that you yourselves created. oh and keep the red sox there as well !!!!!
Shame on you TTAG. This is the most obviously biased and uninformed review I’ve ever read on this site. First, the Saiga and the VEPR are completely different guns. You simply can’t hold the shortcomings of the Saiga against the VEPR. That’s no different than saying “I tested a Delton AR15 that jammed so this Daniel Defense AR15 is an inferior weapon to a Winchester 70.”. Second, ITS NOT DESIGNED TO RUN LOW BRASS BULK BIRDSHOT. I find it laughable that you recommend a Mossberg 930 over the VEPR. I’ve owned both. I had TWO 930 SPXs and BOTH choked on everything I fed them. I bought a single VEPR 12 (for under $700 shipped btw) and its FLAWLESS. It actually DOES run the 3 dram bulk pack birdshot that my 930s wouldn’t (despite the fact that it’s not supposed to). Third, I say uninformed because as was covered by other responses there is indeed a bolt hold open button that eliminates the supposed need to use an empty magazine to lock the action open. How can you as a journalist allow personal bias against a COMPLETELY different firearm affect your opinion of this one? Let alone write a review without reading the freaking owners manual?
You are all CRAZY. This is quite obviously no better than a brick for home defense. I keep my mini-Vulcan leaning on the wall next to my bed… with two belt filled cans. I might cut my house in half, but there is no way in hell anybody is leaving that place alive. And, since my kids all sleep upstairs, I can simply keep the weapon at less than horizontal + 15 degrees and they are totally safe. I can see MAYBE using the VEPR 12 with a 20-round drum of Dragon’s Breath to fry the crippled bastard after I’ve tartar’d his @$$… but that’s just to make sure they don’t get up again like in a horror film.
Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean that people AREN’T watching! Bwahahahaaaaaa!!!
I have fired several hundreds of rounds with my Folding Stock, VEPR 12. I am 922(r) compliant and added a tank muzzle break, this helps reducing muzzle flip. (not one FTF or FTE. This has functioned flawlessly and very accurate, I have used all sorts of OEM and after market magazines, in fact recently purchased a few of the 25 round drum magazines. (They are too bulky to be practical but lots of fun otherwise).
For a purchase of 700 (on line all day long) and another, perhaps 100 or less, to make it 922(r) compliant, you cannot find a more reliable shot gun that can shoot assorted types of ammo without adjusting the gas. same concept as the ar15 and ak47, lots of loaded mags and fire away, amazing with Pumpkin shoots!
I did add a forward grip, get a picatiny rail, two allen screws with anchors, remove the bottom stock, install the two screws with anchors and reassemble. This is the best shotgun for the money, a lot easier to reload than filling a tube magazine.
And yes, as the previous reviews said, not the same as a Saiga, this has auto adjust gas and can fire various types of loads from the same magazine or from magazine to magazine.
Have to agree with the author. Had a Saiga 12 and it was a fun range gun. Had some MD 20 round drums and standard factory 5 rounds. Of all the magazines I tried only the 5 rounders were reliable and even those had occasional jams. But a fun range gun with 20 round drums.
Sold it when I was stationed in California because the AK platform is per se illegal in the state and I play by the rules. But it was an easy decision. As the author said, it was a solution looking for a problem. I thought about the annoyance of trying to load magazines (can’t leave them loaded for years on end or the springs get even less reliable), rock & lock, and engage an intruder – I’d have to ask for a time out – and heaven forbid the darn thing jams as sometimes happened at the range. Also considered potential liability at trial. Was imagining a jury looking at this tacticool monster “AK 47 assault shotgun” – in the event I actually used it for home defense, the intruder gave me time to load the thing, it didn’t jam, and I actually hit that at which I was aiming. Guilty!!!
Then of course the possibility of violating firearms laws in a different state. I considered giving it to a friend for safekeeping – but everyone knows how that goes. Friend lose things. Sometimes those things find their ways into the wrong hands. Didn’t want that to happen to a gun registered in my name. I rarely loan money to friends unless I have no intention of ever having it paid back. Gifts – sure. Loans – no. But it was a fun range gun. Everyone wanted to play with it. But practical use…
Then I looked at my ugly but 100% reliable $200 Mossberg 500 with 8 rounds and a wood stock. A jury would look at it and think I borrowed it from grandpa. Yet it never fails. It is accurate. It holds enough ammo for any situation and is easy to load on the march. If something goes bump in the night – just grab it and rack the slide. Finally, if stuff happened and it was confiscated, I’d just buy another…no drama.
Given that, it was easy to let the Saiga go…guessing the Vepr wouldn’t be much different.