VEPR-12, c Nick Leghorn

The problem with shotguns is that the ammunition is huge and awkward. As a result, the traditional way to keep a shotgun running has been a tube magazine running along the bottom of the barrel. It works well for things like skeet and hunting, but when you get into “tactical” uses or competition shooting the game becomes a test of who can stuff rounds in their gun faster. The VEPR-12 semi-automatic magazine fed shotgun from Molot seems designed to change the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwzV5-y8Od8

Semi-auto AK-style shotguns aren’t new, and we’ve reviewed them before on the site. My Saiga-12 shtogun review comes to mind, in which I detailed exactly why the gun was a piece of crap and the fan boys retorted with “well, obviously you need to fix the gun before you test it! You didn’t give it a fair test!” To which I reply that guns are tested in factory condition, and a gun that needs to be “fixed” before you can actually use it is a pretty piss poor gun. With the VEPR-12, it looks like some of those problems have been fixed.

VEPR-12, c Nick Leghorn

Most obvious is probably that the gun comes from the factory configured the way you’d want it. Instead of the traditional stock there’s a skeletonized tubular stock and a pistol grip. There’s a full length rail along the top of the receiver for your optics and other gubbins. And instead of rocking the magazines into place like on a standard AK, they simply slot straight into the receiver. Oh, and the best part:

The bolt is held open after the last round fires. No longer do you have to count your rounds and then muscle the new magazine into place with the bolt forward, it locks open just like an AR-15. It’s much more convenient and a lot quicker to reload.

The effect of these changes is that the gun is a lot easier to handle straight out of the box. reloads are quicker, movement is much more fluid, and the manual of arms is much more similar to the AR-15 rifle. But still, there are problems.

VEPR-12, c Nick Leghorn

First on the list of gripes is the safety. Instead of being a straight AK-style safety, Molot has added a flap that extends down near the pistol grip with the idea that you can then use your trigger finger to manipulate the safety. It’s good in theory, but in practice it’s annoying and somewhat sharp. I’m not a big fan of thin pieces of metal jutting out off a firearm, especially near my hand, and especially when I’m going to fire slugs through it. It made firing the gun somewhat uncomfortable for me.

In the same area is the bolt release. Positioned about in the same spot that the bolt hold open tab was for the Saiga-12 shotgun, the tab now works as a bolt release allowing you to press this one tab and let the bolt slide home. Ignoring for a minute that it’s inside the trigger guard which is a huge safety concern to some people, the role reversal means that there’s no easy way to lock the bolt open when the gun runs dry. You need to insert and empty magazine and then rack the action back, which is an extra step for something so crucial.

VEPR-12, c Nick Leghorn

The sights are nice, and the full length rail along the top is a very nice touch, but it would be more useful if the stock wouldn’t get in the way so much. There’s a rubber pad on the stock that wallows from one side to the other much like the cheek pad on a SVD rifle, and while it seems like a good idea in practice it tends to move around quite a lot and just get in the way. With the cheek pad in place I couldn’t get a good sight picture, and with it removed I couldn’t get any kind of cheek or even chin weld on the stock. It’s annoying and frustrating, and if this were my gun that would be the first thing to go.

VEPR-12, c Nick Leghorn

There are some really nifty features on this gun, and it definitely is an improvement from the Saiga-12, but I’m running into the same problem that I ran into with the Saiga: what do you use it for?

If you’re thinking about home defense, that’s probably the best application I could think of for the gun. Get yourself some higher capacity magazines and prop it by the bedroom door loaded with buckshot and you’re nearly guaranteed to kill whatever busts down your door. But the form factor of the magazines limit your capacity, and are you really going to take the time to strap on extra shotgun magazines before checking on what that noise downstairs was?

Trap and skeet shooting? The gun suffers from the same parallax issues that the Saiga had, since the sights are over an inch above the top of the barrel, and if you’re spending this kind of money on a dedicated trap or skeet gun there are much better suited choices out there.

3-gun competition? If you’re running in open division then this is definitely an option, but consider that for the same price you can have a Mossberg 930 with an XRAIL and have 22 rounds at your disposal before needing to reload, and still have a normal shotgun in every other way. The biggest magazines I’ve seen fro the VEPR-12 are 12 round magazines, and those require compliance with that pesky Federal statute 922(r) before using them in your gun. Even with the availability of Saiga-12 and VEPR-12 shotguns, the pro 3-gun shooters still don’t use them.

VEPR-12, c Nick Leghorn

The VEPR-12 is definitely an improvement over the Saiga-12, but as far as I can tell it’s still a solution looking for a problem. A nifty range gun no doubt, but if I’m spending this much money I’d like to actually be able to use it for something.

VEPR-12 Shotgun

Specifications:

Caliber: 12ga
Barrel: 19 inches
Capacity: 4+1
MSRP: $1,199 (Buds)

Ratings (Out of Five Stars):
All ratings are relative compared to the other weapons in the gun’s category. Overall rating is not mathematically derived from the previous component ratings and encompasses all aspects of the firearm including those not discussed.

Accuracy: * * * *
There’s an issue with aiming this gun, thanks to the parallax resulting from the sights being an inch above the top of the barrel. You can adjust, but shooting at different distances will be an issue.

Ergonomics: * * * *
It’s better than the Saiga-12, but the safety is an issue for me and the gun feels like it has very sharp edges and rough machining.

Ergonomics Firing: * * * *
Not bad, actually. Light recoil for a 12 gauge.

Customization: * * * *
Rails all over the place, and more after market mods than you can shake a stick at.

Overall Rating: * * *
The Saiga-12 costs about $610 these days, and this gun retails for nearly twice that much. It’s an improvement over the old Saiga-12, but I wouldn’t judge it being twice as good. Bring the price down around $800 and we’ll talk. In the meantime I’m giving it one more star than I gave the Saiga-12.

RELATED ARTICLESMORE FROM AUTHOR

107 COMMENTS

  1. ” The biggest magazines I’ve seen fro the VEPR-12 are 12 round magazines, and those require compliance with that pesky Federal statute 922(r) before using them in your gun. ”

    nobody actually cares about 922r

        • That may be. But I’m not volunteering to be the test case. I keep my nose clean when 922R is concerned. ATF is always looking for a new avenue of prosecution.

        • So,wouldnt it be embarassing to be the 1st person to be done in by it? While I get the point the 922r Law is stupid, stay safe and dont give them anything to hang you with.

        • it would be embarrassing.

          I’d also be really embarrassed to show up at work without pants on, but it’s just about as likely.

      • As a practical matter, 922r compliance is something the feds care a lot about IF you are a large scale manufacturer, but not if you are the end user. I’d hate to be the test case, but it seems likely that if anything, the test case would likely be a “pretext” prosecution (i.e. similar to taking down Al Capone for tax evasion).

    • I just bought one of these for $699 out the door with tax shipping dros was $915. The benelli M2 tactical starts at 1,499 plus tax plus dros. I think for what it is not priced bad at all. Cost the same as a base model AR or AK does

  5. Umm the XRAIL is $$$ ( I could buy two JM Mossburg 930s instead )– and puts a huge weight WAY out from the shooters body, so for less money I can pickup a 25 round drum magazine that I can slot in and out much easier than reloading the XRAIL. sure I’ll have to replace a couple parts — but the mag does count as one of them…

    • I’ve never seen that XRAIL system before. Man, does that look awkward and ungainly. How much does a shotgun with that thing on it weigh, fully loaded?

      It looks like something that was invented specifically for a video game or a Schwarzenegger movie.

    • And I’d be swapping the stock for something that’s not welded open and awkward, so might as well get something American while doing that, giving you another compliance part.

  6. Call me vain, but my second reason for buying a gun after having a use for it is aesthetics. If I were looking to drop that kind of scratch on a semi auto 12 gauge it’s going to have pretty wood furniture….

    • $699 classic firearms they can’t keep them in stock tho sell out with in one two weeks and takes a second for em to get em again

  7. So each category gets 4 stars but somehow the overall drops to 3 stars? Not to mention your “problems” are things that others (such as Tim over on MAC) love, and I’m thinking Nick just hates the idea of an AK shotgun period and will find any excuse to bash them.

    • Price wasn’t a prior category. I’ve done similar things on my reviews. The overall includes everything — overall subjective opinion and shooting experience, price considerations, etc — and is not simply an average of the limited preceding categories.

    • First, there are four (4) ratings before the overall. I think you mean (4+4+4+4)/4. Still, your point remains. So… Second, see my comment right above yours.

      • Then the question become: why have the rating system at all? A similar question could ale be asked: why not include price as a gradeable category?

        • In no way do I represent the opinion of TTAG when I say: if you don’t like the subjective ratings, then simply ignore them. On the flip side, you have to draw the line somewhere and if there were a rating category for every possible facet of a firearm then the ratings would be longer than the review article. If there were only a single “overall” rating, it may not reflect what’s important to some people vs. others. That said, I’ll admit that in the reviews I have done I’ve tried to add any categories that I felt had a direct affect on the overall score so the overall did make more sense when taking into account the stuff above it. Price is a super hard one, but “value” could be a legit thing to rank in cases where it actually does affect the overall (and, btw, I’m completely guessing as to why Nick’s overall is lower than the average of the categories… it could be value plus 1,000 other tiny things that didn’t deserve categories of their own but brought the average down)

        • Sometimes price is included in the ratings, and usually it is in the discussion. A lot of TTAG’s overall star ratings mention that they’re comparing the gun to similar guns in a similar price range.

          Speaking only for myself, I’m glad to trade the pretense of mathematical objectivity for reviews that are an honest reflection of an informed person’s opinions and preferences. TTAG is one of only a few places where you can get that.

      • It must be that new STUPID CORE Math …..you know the Obammy way of doing things………….. .I saw this as a news story on C hicken N oodle N ews……..

  9. Another use is deer/hog hunting. I live in the shotgun only part of Michigan, and I’ve been using a saiga with an eotech for the last two years. No complaints thus far. That and my EAA Match 10mm.

  10. I’ve yet to see an XRAIL that actually works reliably. I’ve beaten competitors much better than me that used those in Trooper division simply because their gun didn’t work.

    Why aren’t top 3 gun shooters using it? Let’s be honest, the importers aren’t sponsoring them. Give them the right sponsorship contract and they would be using it.

    Overall the VEPR-12 is a dramatic improvement over the Saiga. It actually works and is much easier to use.

    • Ding ding ding! We have a winner.

      Top competitors compete with what their sponsors tell them to so they serve as walking advertisements.

  11. What do you use it for? Trench clearing. Urban warfare. Exactly what the second amendment is primarily for, to have a well regulated militia.

    Does it have a bayonet stud?

  13. There is a little round button just behind the mag well, press that bitch up and rack the bolt. That is the bolt lock. Very easy to do.

      • So what if it is made in the USA? Honestly are trying to be funny (satire)?

        But I think that where a object/device is from shouldn’t count into your considerations when buying said item. What if American gun manufacturers decide to cut corners (and then cut some extra corners) because they know that people will buy American no matter what? What would happen is the quality would degrade. Dyspeptic Gunsmith can probably answer this better and more eloquently than I can.

        And to Nick: feelings shouldn’t really affect things. It’s a bit funny for me to read: “…the gun FEELS like it has very sharp edges and rough machining”

        (Caps added for emphasis)

        Either it has sharp edges (you cut yourself or the gun grinds when using it) or it doesn’t.

  15. My Saiga 12 works flawlessly if I have the gas adjusted correctly. And it accepts 10 rd drums … At the same height as a 5-rd stick magazine.
    A Saiga that runs well coupled with a 10-rd drum is a solution to many questions.
    I don’t see the Vepr as much of an improvement.

  16. How does “Rails all over the place, and more after market mods than you can shake a stick at” net a mere 4 for customization? Hell, you gave that GI 1911 with sights part of the slide and no rails a 5.

  17. “To which I reply that guns are tested in factory condition, and a gun that needs to be “fixed” before you can actually use it is a pretty piss poor gun.”

    So I suppose you ran your 3 gun AR bone stock with zero modifications then. Yeah. That’s what I thought.

    • A stock AR15 generally works and could be used to compete in 3 gun though not optimally.

      Stock Saigas often simply didn’t work at all. I went through 8 guns to get 3 that worked.

    • Fixing in order to achieve basic function and modifying to improve/change function are totally different things. It’s pretty reasonable to expect a new gun to work (feed, fire, eject) as it comes out of the box. Maybe a little break-in in some cases makes sense, but having to “fix” it — like replacing parts with aftermarket ones or polishing stuff, etc — before it cycles properly is not a good thing and nobody should expect that with any modern firearm.

      • I have seen people complain about the S12 not cycling light target loads. That’s like complaining that your 22lr wont cycle 22short. First off the S12 was designed for heavy brass. Second if you want to shoot light loads you have to adjust the gas system and set it to pos. 2. True the manual from I mash is terrible, but 10min on the s12 forums fixes that problem. Everybody who I have personally seen that had an s12 that ftf’d didn’t set the regulator correctly.

      • I’m not gonna get into the whole “bias” argument….I would just like to point out that only AFTER reading the entire review, and well into the comments section did I see someone correct you on the fact there IS a manual bolt hold open on this particular weapon. This does two things for me. One, makes me not the least bit interested in any more reviews you personally write and second it makes me question the vetting process for reviewers/writers here at TTAG. I believe completely that there is room for personal opinion on a review…but no reason whatsoever to leave out/ get WRONG tec.data. Maybe the new name should be THEMODERATLYBIASPOINIONSONGUNS.COM

        • What exactly do you mean by a manual bolt hold open? I own Vepr-12 shotgun and the it has a last round bolt open feature. However, it does not happen all the time, especially if you are using light loads. It’s not like an AR-15 where you can manually set the bolt open without the magazine if that is what you are referring too.

      • Uh – then I might suggest you not buy a Kimber 1911 frame in .45 and shoot flat front ball ammo. Pre-break in its a little pesky. Post break in, it’s one of my favorite handguns. I slicked up the feeding ramp on my first one… But in hind sight that was just lazy. Getting to know her… working her in with stroke after stroke after stroke… makes for a better relationship. [Get your minds out of the gutter]

  18. “There’s an issue with aiming this gun, thanks to the parallax resulting from the sights being an inch above the top of the barrel. You can adjust, but shooting at different distances will be an issue.”

    It’s a shotgun, anything more than a brass bead and you’re over thinking your shot.

    • Beads only work when mounted directly to the barrel and people honestly miss with them a lot. The height over bore with a VEPR-12 or Saiga makes a bead not work well.

      Iron sights on the VEPR-12 work decently because they can be zeroed and give the shooter 2 aiming reference points. I have an aimpoint M2 on mine.

    • Even a brass bead is over thinking it in my book. I think shotguns are the best home defense weapon – point it in the intruders general direction and you’re likely to really ruin their day.

  19. My Saiga 12 is mostly a range toy. I have a few 10 round stick mags and a 20 round drum. I will be doing a conversion on it in the future so for now I will stick with the 5 round mags until it meets 922R. For full power buckshot loads it runs flawlessly. It is a lot of fun to blast a bunch of lead pellets at pumpkins or other deserving food items. I haven’t run birdshot through it yet so I can’t comment on function with low brass loads. I have thought about using it to hunt with in the future as I can buy 2 round mags. I also paid $630 for it during Firearmageddon last year. Other places I looked at wanted $1000-1200 for a new unconverted Saiga.

    Since the Saiga puts you in the higher classes of 3 gun I bought a Mossberg 930 SPX. It cycles every type of ammo I throw at it. I also like shotguns a lot, so having a few choices now is nice.

  20. Watch the video and notice how the bolt carrier bounces off the receiver when it slams home. Is that normal?

    • yep, just about all AKs have some contact of the rear trunnion with the carrier. people get all fussed about it and do things like add recoil buffers or extra strength recoil springs, and then scratch their heads at the occasional short-stroke or double.

  21. Okay, in the first picture, it says 12×76 on the receiver. Is that how Europeans/Russians refer to 12g? Do they use the metric designations for shotguns calibers as well as regular cartridges? Except the “12” is still gauge rather than diameter in millimeters… I DON’T UNDERSTAND!

  22. One thing I noticed that was left out of the review that is worth mentioning. That skeleton stock is actually a left hand folding that has been pinned open due to 922r. About 5 min with a dremmel and you can add a little more value to your gun, of course you should always .make the gun 922r compliant first.

      • While I understand the concept, that’s not exactly the truth about the gun. I mean, it’s the truth about how this gun comes from the factory, but it’s not the truth about how great this gun can be with 5 minutes of time in my mechanically inclined hands. Maybe your reviews should mention some of these things, or maybe you’re not so inclined. Mechanically, anyway.

        • Depends how you look at it.

          Modifying it goes sort of against the whole straight-out-of-the-box concept. But what if it is intended to be like that? I mean if the stock has been welded open it would mean that straight from the factory it was intended to fold but was welded for some legal reasons.

          So what is the correct thing to do here?

  23. One of the things I appreciate about your reviews is that they’re real reviews. You take equipment from the factory and are willing to pan something if it’s bad.

  24. funny that the shotgun is marketed as the premier 3-gun shotty.

    “The Vepr 12 gauge shotgun is known around the world as one of the finest IPSC and 3 Gun shotguns made.”

  26. Does anyone know if the 20-shot drum magazine (for instance for Saiga) operates with this Molot Vepr? Are there otherwise drum magazines to this weapon?

  27. “the role reversal means that there’s no easy way to lock the bolt open when the gun runs dry. You need to insert and empty magazine and then rack the action back, which is an extra step for something so crucial.”

    They included that button on the bottom of the receiver… it is in front of the trigger… this allows you to lock the bolt without an inserted magazine….

    • amen to that. but we are fanboys with no concept of “purpose” or ”usefulness”.

      i would like to see an update to the review considering 800 is the new price…..

      • +1
        I am not aware of any shotgun that is as capable as the V12 in the $800’ish range.

        I repair a lot of tube fed guns. Believe it or not, many more pumps than autos. Mainly tweaked cartridge stops and ejectors, and worn bars. They just aren’t as durable as people would like others to think. The V12 will go for many more rounds without breaking than most pump guns will.

  29. Classic Firearms just put these on sale for $799/shipped. Considering unconverted Saiga’s go for that…its a great deal. $1200 is way too much.

    • In comparison to what it would take to get a Saiga 12 to the Vepr 12 level of quality, $1200 was still a great deal. I am glad to see them at $800 though.

  31. I don’t get the part about magazines and home defense. I feel fine with my Mossberg 590 for home defense and it only holds 5 rounds. I’m not worried about needing more than 6 rounds of 12 gauge for home defense. Why is that? Well I’m a good shot and either they will be dead or I will before I’m done with the six rounds. I heard an intruder in my house once and grabbed my Vaquero. Fortunately for them they took off before I got downstairs. The point is though, I wasn’t worried about reloading.

    • I get what you saying. I never beat my dogs downstairs though and it is over so fast I don’t get time to even fire one round.

  32. I hope my previous comment doesn’t seem anti-2nd. I don’t believe the 2nd is about home defense. I have several ARs and a hundred or so 30 round mags. But for home defense, I just grab the Vaquero or the Glock 21 or the Mossberg and I feel fine with that.

  34. I have heard that the dis-assembly pin tends to warp or mis-align relatively quickly on this firearm. Have they solved the dis-assembly pin warp problem on the VEPR 12 yet?

    • Yup–Thanks to BHO. I get that the Russians suck and always will pertaining to their foreign policy as well as their Red Brethren China. Yet I do not like the embargoes pertaining to Russia or China as it really only adversely effects respective citizens in both countries as well as the U.S..Now, transferring high-tech military type technology I get…

  36. This review almost had me until two things happened. First, your limited thinking can’t come up with all the tactical and practical applications for a semi-auto shotgun that reloads quickly and easily? Shame on you. Then you mention the xrail as if it is a viable and useful alternative instead of the uber-expensive, unreliable, heavy piece of crap it is in reality? Double shame for being a shill.

  37. Wow–lots of Russian shotgun hate…Too bad as while granted the Saiga only ran High Brass out of the box (at least mine did as well as others I have seen) the Vepr runs ALL ammo (bird-slug) absent one single modification for WAY <money (prior to the BHO BAN on AK's) then an BM4. I can't even say that about my Remington 1187P (perhaps the R12 will correct this..?). My Turkish Hatsan's also required some work for <full-power ammo..

    I guess I'm different in that I never look for a "end-all-be-all" firearm be it hand/long. If you are a person that is looking for ONE gun then do your research and grab it but why badmouth others…?

  38. Hey

    I was looking for a buttstock for my Vepr 12 Molot. Wanted to obtain a collapsible
    and if possible side folding stock, but most of available options required a special adaptor.
    Chinese products were not taken into account as in the past already had some issues with them.
    After a detailed search i’ve found this option from Israeli company Fab-Defence:

    http://www.idf-tactical.com/Buttstocks/ShotgunsStocks/M4-VEPR-FKSB

    I am familiar with their products for a quite a long time, but now they got a buttstock with adaptor
    for Vepr built-in. In the buttstock there is shock-absorbing system and T6 hard anodized aluminum buffer tube.
    Everything has passed very smoothly and after the order has been made in 2 days the parcel was sent out.

    In case you look for improvement and tuning of your rifle i warmly suggest to consider this option.

  39. It was immediately clear (especially after reading this authors Saiga 12 review) that he didn’t want to like this gun.

    This review is full of inaccurate information.
    The slide locks back easily by pushing the little button in front of the trigger guard (just behind the magazine release paddle). Although the slide release is inside the trigger guard, you have to put your finger behind the trigger and push quite hard to release. It is well designed and in a place that makes it easy to reload and shoot without moving your hand much. I just cannot see how this can be dangerous.
    I fire the magnum slugs, I don’t see how the safety is a problem, no sharp metal jutting out.
    The cheek pad is remarkably well designed, it can be moved out of the way, no problem for me, besides, most people will no doubt use a red dot sight, so sight picture will be unaffected.

    And lastly, just my opinion, If paralax is an issue and you can’t compensate for 1″ then maybe a different hobby is better for you.

  40. It sure has hell seems like a lot of people commenting on here have never even handled a Vepr 12….

    I just bought a Vepr 12 a few weeks ago. Price was 799.99 and was from Classic Arms. It came with the fixed stock. I actually decided to put the Molot muzzle brake (well, the Carolina Shooter Supply brake knockoff) and YES, it significantly reduces recoil on the gun! I’ve gone up and down and read all these idiotic comments on how the muzzle brake won’t do anything…my god, people on here are retards. Shooting slugs from this shotgun was an absolute breeze…I was actually able to double tap quite frequently.

    I also own a Mossberg 930 and I’ve fired slugs from my friend’s Savage 12 gauge. Although I like both these guns, shooting slugs from them can be painful, especially after a dozen shots. With the Vepr, I went through about 50 and didn’t have a sore shoulder.

  41. got question how many atf going strp down one these just see ifi it complinant. fack is most usa parts not mark
    atf got so so bussy they got better things to do the strip down your gun see if compliant probe is they need
    cause to beleave its not they just cant arrest us or hold u, they need reason befor they ack,
    once they have reason they check all your guns, but u have do ack break the law make atf see u,
    u got stick out to them, no judge would give them cort order because they think your guns not complant
    and yes they first need judge order or arrest u, there arrest found not sound leave them open to law sute
    best point this is ohio man was open carry a gun wich is leagle police detain him with out cause orther then the gun they found he can sue the state and police. they said no one should be detain because of open carey of a gun, so u first need break the law, some kind law they take your gun do they have just cause to beleave gun not leagle ? is 2ed probem if gun not part of the arreast or being stop they cant check it, u need be on radar of atf or fbi, , saying this stay in complace of the laws u wont have probems the law can be challenge and defeated makes no sence , ack upgrading the gun to usa parts can make gun more latheal don’t they even know this,

  42. Bet this gun would be ideal for sasquatch hunting. Alternate 00 buck with slugs and rock and roll the big apes.

  44. Shame on you TTAG. This is the most obviously biased and uninformed review I’ve ever read on this site. First, the Saiga and the VEPR are completely different guns. You simply can’t hold the shortcomings of the Saiga against the VEPR. That’s no different than saying “I tested a Delton AR15 that jammed so this Daniel Defense AR15 is an inferior weapon to a Winchester 70.”. Second, ITS NOT DESIGNED TO RUN LOW BRASS BULK BIRDSHOT. I find it laughable that you recommend a Mossberg 930 over the VEPR. I’ve owned both. I had TWO 930 SPXs and BOTH choked on everything I fed them. I bought a single VEPR 12 (for under $700 shipped btw) and its FLAWLESS. It actually DOES run the 3 dram bulk pack birdshot that my 930s wouldn’t (despite the fact that it’s not supposed to). Third, I say uninformed because as was covered by other responses there is indeed a bolt hold open button that eliminates the supposed need to use an empty magazine to lock the action open. How can you as a journalist allow personal bias against a COMPLETELY different firearm affect your opinion of this one? Let alone write a review without reading the freaking owners manual?

  45. You are all CRAZY. This is quite obviously no better than a brick for home defense. I keep my mini-Vulcan leaning on the wall next to my bed… with two belt filled cans. I might cut my house in half, but there is no way in hell anybody is leaving that place alive. And, since my kids all sleep upstairs, I can simply keep the weapon at less than horizontal + 15 degrees and they are totally safe. I can see MAYBE using the VEPR 12 with a 20-round drum of Dragon’s Breath to fry the crippled bastard after I’ve tartar’d his @$$… but that’s just to make sure they don’t get up again like in a horror film.

    Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean that people AREN’T watching! Bwahahahaaaaaa!!!

  46. I have fired several hundreds of rounds with my Folding Stock, VEPR 12. I am 922(r) compliant and added a tank muzzle break, this helps reducing muzzle flip. (not one FTF or FTE. This has functioned flawlessly and very accurate, I have used all sorts of OEM and after market magazines, in fact recently purchased a few of the 25 round drum magazines. (They are too bulky to be practical but lots of fun otherwise).
    For a purchase of 700 (on line all day long) and another, perhaps 100 or less, to make it 922(r) compliant, you cannot find a more reliable shot gun that can shoot assorted types of ammo without adjusting the gas. same concept as the ar15 and ak47, lots of loaded mags and fire away, amazing with Pumpkin shoots!
    I did add a forward grip, get a picatiny rail, two allen screws with anchors, remove the bottom stock, install the two screws with anchors and reassemble. This is the best shotgun for the money, a lot easier to reload than filling a tube magazine.
    And yes, as the previous reviews said, not the same as a Saiga, this has auto adjust gas and can fire various types of loads from the same magazine or from magazine to magazine.

  47. Have to agree with the author. Had a Saiga 12 and it was a fun range gun. Had some MD 20 round drums and standard factory 5 rounds. Of all the magazines I tried only the 5 rounders were reliable and even those had occasional jams. But a fun range gun with 20 round drums.

    Sold it when I was stationed in California because the AK platform is per se illegal in the state and I play by the rules. But it was an easy decision. As the author said, it was a solution looking for a problem. I thought about the annoyance of trying to load magazines (can’t leave them loaded for years on end or the springs get even less reliable), rock & lock, and engage an intruder – I’d have to ask for a time out – and heaven forbid the darn thing jams as sometimes happened at the range. Also considered potential liability at trial. Was imagining a jury looking at this tacticool monster “AK 47 assault shotgun” – in the event I actually used it for home defense, the intruder gave me time to load the thing, it didn’t jam, and I actually hit that at which I was aiming. Guilty!!!

    Then of course the possibility of violating firearms laws in a different state. I considered giving it to a friend for safekeeping – but everyone knows how that goes. Friend lose things. Sometimes those things find their ways into the wrong hands. Didn’t want that to happen to a gun registered in my name. I rarely loan money to friends unless I have no intention of ever having it paid back. Gifts – sure. Loans – no. But it was a fun range gun. Everyone wanted to play with it. But practical use…

    Then I looked at my ugly but 100% reliable $200 Mossberg 500 with 8 rounds and a wood stock. A jury would look at it and think I borrowed it from grandpa. Yet it never fails. It is accurate. It holds enough ammo for any situation and is easy to load on the march. If something goes bump in the night – just grab it and rack the slide. Finally, if stuff happened and it was confiscated, I’d just buy another…no drama.

    Given that, it was easy to let the Saiga go…guessing the Vepr wouldn’t be much different.

  48. I purchased this gun for right at $1000 bucks. I really didn’t have a good reason to buy it other than the fact that they aren’t being imported anymore. Thats a piss poor reason to buy a gun but some how it came home with me anyway. I think the best point in this review is what do you use it for? I keep a competition Beretta for skeet shooting and my mossberg 500 and Benelli m4 share the roll of home defense. This thing isn’t replacing any of them so maybe I’ll keep it maybe I won’t. I just don’t get that feeling of reliability like I do with the others. Maybe in time that will change.

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  54. This is a really poor inaccurate review. I recommend the reviewer READS the owners manual first before in touches any gun. He might learn something. There is a bolt hold button on this gun that he is getting confused with the bolt release lever. The button is located smartly ahead of the trigger guard in the middle of the receiver. It was wisely placed here making it ambidextrous. Just pull the bolt back with your right hand, push the button with your left index finger while gripping the rifle and it locks back. The bolt release tab then protrudes out indicating you have a locked colt. You can either bush the tab in or pull pack on the bolt, allow it to slap back, to release it. The Only Time the tab is visible is when the bolt is locked back. So unless the river is running around with bolt locked back which is stupid, that’s the only time the tab could be an issue. And with it locked back, the trigger is locked. Again – read the instructions! The other point is gun is great COMBAT gun for which it was designed. Trying to make it a skeet gone is a joke. Home defense, war, Armageddon is what it’s designed for. His point about magazines, there are 5, 8, 10, 12 round mags available and various drums too. I prefer 5, 8, and 10 rounders. You can also connect 2 together doubling your capacity. Two groups of 8 rounders = 32 rounds and is way less cumbersome than the drums and reloads leave other semiautos and pumps in the dust. So bottom line, great gun. If you don’t like the stock, replace it with something else like you would do on an AR. Most importantly, read the manual before you fire any gun.

  55. Spelling correction above – when the bolt release tab is visible it indicates the bolt is locked back …… not that the bolt is closed

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