Never underestimate RF’s ability to sidle up to just about anyone and extract some significant scoopage. His latest victim: George Zimmerman attorney Mark O’Mara who is adamant that, given the preponderance of evidence in his client’s favor, they’re not looking for a deal to avoid going to trial. In his estimation, the broken nose Zimmerman suffered at the hands of Trayvon Martin (moreso than the cuts on the back of his head) is proof positive the altercation was started by the Skittles-scarfing yoot, and that GZ acted in self defense. O’Mara also let slip that, in order to try to catch Zimmerman in a lie, the Sanford police told him they had a surveillance video of the whole thing. Only they don’t. And Zimmerman stuck to his story. So there you have it — still more confirmation that the best course of action when dealing with the local constabulary (until your lawyer arrives) is to STFU.

RELATED ARTICLESMORE FROM AUTHOR

189 COMMENTS

      • What evidence do you speak of? Most all witness testimonies, the autopsy, and GZ’s post-attack doctors visit corroborate his side of the story. Really the only “evidence” they have against him is circumstantial. He might be guilty of being an overzealous mall cop, but he didnt commit murder 2.

        • JoshinGA,

          I suggest you go back and read the evidence again. Zimmerman is toast. He is headed for life in prison. A cell with his name awaits him.

        • LOL at corroborates his story

          Dont you mean Zimmerman’s stories in plural?

          & which one of the stories?

          Why did Zimmerman have to come up with so many different versions of what happened?

          What proof legally does he have that he can stalk and chase an unarmed teenager with a gun?

          What proof does he have Trayvon punched Zimmerman in the nose? Who witnessed that and is a credible witness? Is there forensic evidence to back up that Trayvon hit Zimmerman? If its proven, why would Trayvon hits Zimmerman, and was Trayvon’s force justified?

          BTW, all the witnesses already blow through one of Zimmerman’s huge lies, which is that he never went after Trayvon down the back pathway. Zimmerman even admits in one of his many stories that he did continue looking for the teen. Zimmerman also admits to overpowering the teen, and controlling him, took enough care not to shoot his hand that was holding Trayvon’s chest, aimed and shot.

          How does any of these confessions by Zimmerman show that he was in imminent danger of great bodily harm or death?

          Perhaps you should actually go over the evidence.

          BTW, Omara cant submit any of Zimmerman’s statements through him otherwise it constitutes hearsay, so Zimmerman’s only choice is to take the stand, as he is the only witness to any self defense encounter

        • Oh Ive read all the most recent accounts. GZ definitely walks on murder 2 in a fair trial. Not like hes going to get one of those, unless they discover intelligent life on Mars, assuming Mars doesnt get CBS evening news.

        • What “evidence” is it that you people are talking about? Is there some secret videotape of the incident that I missed? If not, GZ’s injuries, the autopsy, and witness statements all point to TM attacking GZ (for following him, which is irrelevant).

        • Sorry but the autopsy is what is going to nail Zimmerman. There was NO Zimmerman DNA found on Martin at all! How could Martin beat, suffocate and bang GZs head without getting a speck of GZ DNA in the process? Maybe you read a different autopsy report but there is ZERO physical evidence of a fight at all. Try again to justify how GZ killed an UNARMED TEEN without provocation.

        • Zero physical evidence? Like Zimmerman’s grassy and wet shirt from laying on the grass, busted up face, broken nose, black eyes, the back of his head busted open, and the DAMANGE TO TRAYVONS KNUCKLES FROM PUNCHING ZIMMERMAN’S FACE INTO THE GROUND?

  2. Even to an uneducated guy like me it makes no sense for gz to plead out. If he pleads he’s guilty, just another felon with no future.

    If he goes to trial and is found innocent he has a clear record, a reasonable defense against civil actiona and after beating the charges in court it’s a good bet that he’ll get someone to ghost write his side of the story and make a pretty penny on it.

    The one that’ll have a felony conviction out of this is his wife. Her crime is indepent of what gz’s been charged with.

    • “If he goes to trial and is found innocent he has a clear record, a reasonable defense against civil actiona and after beating the charges in court it’s a good bet that he’ll get someone to ghost write his side of the story and make a pretty penny on it.”

      Just like O.J. Simpson.

      • Only OJ was in the anti-rights sewer of California and GZ is in Florida.
        “776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—
        (1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.”

        With that law on the books a lawsuit after GZ is found NG is theoretically possible but not probable.

        • Maybe you haven’t heard yet, but those laws will not protect GZ. The very creators/authors already said so on record! And so does the state of Florida. That’s why he’s charged with murder, he never bothered to read it…

        • If you read it, it specifically says

          “for the use of force”

          so they can go after Zimmerman for other things related to the incident

          plus

          if there is any fraudulence found during trial, Zimmerman can be tried again, as it is a double jeopardy exception, as using fraud to gain a not guilty, means that individual was never in jeopardy…

          considering Zimmerman’s in and out of court actions of dishonesty and manipulation, as well as the fact he made 7 or more different stories, its obvious Zimmerman is using some fraud in the trial

  3. They need to let G.Z. go and stop all the fear about what the blacks might or might not do… Give out some justice and be man…

    • If you read anything besides gun news, you would know that both forensic and witness evidence indicate that GZ is lying about the entire fist fight. In fact, there is ZERO evidence that GZ had a broken nose. It was just a small nosebleed that stopped on its own. By his own admission, Zimmerman has indicated he followed a teenager that was NOT doing ANYTHING criminal at all, just walking home in the rain chatting with his girlfriend. This man is dangerous and needs to spend those 25 years-life away from law abiding people.

      • Trayvon was casing houses, that’s why it took him over 50 minutes to walk 6/10 of a mile. He was actively casing houses. That’s why Zimmerman was following him. Not that that matters. Even if Trayvon was just walking home, there’s nothing wrong with following someone that looks suspicious. The problem we have is all the injuries on Zimmerman with only two on Trayvon – gunshot would, and lacerated knuckles from punching Zimmerman.

  4. If GZ is offered a generous plea, he’d be crazy not to take it. Even a conviction for invol. man. can cost GZ fifteen years in FL. A voluntary conviction would be worse. Of course, since the prosecutor clearly wants to make an example of GZ, any plea offer will be onerous rather than generous.

    What a f^cking mess this case is.

    • Absolutely not. He should not take anything other than a full dismissal of the charges or go to trail. An invol. manslaughter automatically makes him civilly liable for damages and he will be financially ruined for the rest o his life.

      • Don’t worry. Angela Corey will not offer any plea deals. This menace to society will be tried, convicted of Murder2 and sentenced to life in prison. Zimmerman’s a dangerous psycho who has to be removed from society. You cannot have a loose cannon on the streets snapping in a moment’s notice and killing innocent kids because of his drummed up assumptions. He can rot in prison and from there.. go straight to his own place.

        • Where did you and the other two cronies come from? Mikey#s is that you? This is laughably bad. You really love ignoring facts even though they’re staring you in the face dont you? I bet you believed that Paul Ryan’s nickname for Romney was “the Stench” didnt you? Didnt you?

        • I’m Sky_Light! And let me give you a tip. What Zimmerman claims is not facts or evidence. Maybe if you remove the scales & adjust your eyes you’d see Zimmerman stalked, chased and murdered the kid in cold blood.

  5. The forensic evidence is overwhelmingly AGAINST Zimmerman. If people would look beyond the gun issue, you would see that this case is NOT a gun issue at all. In this case, you had an armed deranged man pretending to be a cop, follow an UNARMED TEENAGER, terorize and kill him. No, GZ won’t plead; the prosecution won’t offer one because they don’t need to. And when has GZ EVER STFU? He’s on Hannity saying he has no remorse over killing an unarmed teen, he’s online thanking “the masses” for their support… gee it would be NICE if GZ and his entire money-grubbing family WOULD STFU!

  6. Get real! Zimmerman is a murderer and there is NO LAW in existence that would excuse his crime. He has NO chance of an acquittal. And any gun charge with a death is a mandatory min of 25 years! There will never be a plea bargain offered. Why bother, it’s better for GZ to go to trial, get convicted by a jury, and sentenced to life in prison when he belongs, just like all the other common criminals. No better no worse.

    • I would say you’re crazy if you think he’s going to get convicted by a jury, but then I remembered how the mass media poisoned the jury pool. All I can say is good luck to him in getting a fair trial.

      As far as Im concerned, the evidence as Ive seen it thus far makes it appear that Zimmerman fired while he was on his back, with Martin on top of him. How it ended up there doesnt matter. If GZ followed TM, so what? That doesnt make it right if TM attacked him, nor make it any less lawful for GZ to use deadly force against a threat. As I said, this is just based on what evidence Ive seen. YMMV.

      • Maybe you need to read better articles about the forensic evidence. The bullet went in STRAIGHT, front to back, which is IMPOSSIBLE to do from on your back from about 4-6 inches without an angle. The only threat that night was GZ stalking a kid and never identifying himself as the Neighborhood Watch. It IS illegal to stalk and terrorize someone who has been doing NOTHING criminal. It is ALSO illegal to kill someone who is NOT posing and immediate and deadly threat to you. Martin was 52 pounds LESS than GZ, was not an athlete nor any kind of fighter, and was seen by witnesses as running AWAY from GZ because he was afraid. How can you justify killing an 11th grade kid?

        • Anti-stalking laws are in place to prevent people from serially following people. Not following someone in one instance.

          Secondly, you mean articles like this:
          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-dershowitz/new-forensic-evidence-is-_b_1527972.html

          This one is good as well:
          http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/5/27/44552/1872

          Also, read the autopsy, page 3, evidence of injury here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/17/trayvon-martin-autopsy_n_1525763.html

          Summarizing that part of the autopsy, the bullet was fired at intermediate range, with a ring of soot and stippling (caused by gases/unburned gunpowder exiting the barrel of a gun close to skin) was present. Also, TM had an abrasion on his left hand finger (could be from striking someone). Basically, GZ was very close when he fired that shot, and TM had probably struck someone with his left hand the night he died (presumably GZ). Eye witness reports of GZ on his back with TM on top of him provide an excellent addition to this autopsy info.

          Maybe you should do your own research instead of parroting the crap the mass media spits out.

        • Josh- wow! You can read! Lets look at your points, shall we? 1) Dershowitz has been proven wrong do much on this case that he’s shut up. He’s done irreparable damage to his professional reputation. That’s what happens when you talk with no evidence available. 2) intermediate range is anything from 2 inches to 18 inches, depending on the “expert” you quote. But it wasn’t a muzzle in skin shot. The distance doesn’t matter but the ANGLE does. By GZs admission he “aimed, made sure he didn’t shoot his left hand and shot”. It shows premeditation. The shot was perfect and done from a standing position (most likely). 3) yes a small wound was found on the inside of Martins hand. But NO GZ DNA so no, he had not used that hand to hit GZ. 4) and finally that witness has recanted his entire testimony. No MMA style hitting, and not sure who was where. In other words there are still no witnesses that saw who was on top. In fact, one witness, a school teacher, saw the man on top from her 2nd story window. That means GZ was on top. So again I ask you: how can you justify GZ killing an unarmed teen?

      • Okay since you feel its okay for people to stalk and chase people around with a gun, I hope it happens to you… when the guy shoots and kills you… I will be the first to tell others what the guy did was perfectly fine since its self defense according to what you stated… I dont feel its self defense but hey, thats how you feel, if it happens to you, thats how you feel… who am I to go against your wishes

        • Someone could follow me all they wanted. Id call the cops. And I certainly wouldnt follow them as they headed back to their car to attack them. TM unfortunately made a fatal mistake since the guy he attacked was armed.

        • I found this on another blog and it’s so true.

          Rule 1. If Zimmerman says it, it’s true.

          And even better, it’s evidence.

          So it’s really, really true.

          If Zimmerman says A is true, then it is.

          If Zimmerman says B is true, then it is.

          If A and B contradict each other, see Rule 1.

          If the re-enactment contradicts both A and B, see Rule 1.

          If all of them are contradicted by what’s on the phone call, you’re listening to it wrong, and what don’t you understand about see Rule 1?

      • Uh, Joshin GA, I’m afraid you haven’t looked at the discovery evidence in detail. For GZ to have been pinned on his back would result in debris in his clothes. The lab report provides the finding of debris on Trayvon’s hoodie, sweatshirt, and shoes. The only debris found on GZ was on his left boot.

        GZ was not in reasonable fear for his life when he killed Trayvon. If anyone believes his story, then by his own admission, he had removed his head from the concrete, restrained Trayvon’s arm, and had him in a wrist lock when he pulled his gun from its holster. If anyone believes his story, by his own admission, the only thing Trayvon was doing at the time GZ killed him, was talking smack.

        • The cops wrote in their report that the back of Zimmerman’s shirt was wet and grass stained as if he had been on his back. Did they make this up in a conspiracy to protect him?

  7. This is more of a test of my avatar than anything else but there are some people who seem to be living in another universe and have a total lack of understanding of the discovery process. If Martin weighed 52lb less than Zimmerman he would we in at 140lbs or so.

  9. You anti Zimmerman guys are hallucinating. Your hero TM was a drugged out thug wanna be with a self-created online handle of “No Limit Nigga” who bit off a whole lot more than he could chew. Thug meets gun. No amount of posturing and bull$hit on your parts will convict Zimmerman.

    • LOL! WE don’t have to do anything! The evidence and GZs own words will send him to jail. Martin was not a thug but an 11th grade nerdy student. There were no drugs found in his system except for traces of weed that indicate he had smoked it about a week prior. Hardly “drugged out”. Besides weed makes one mellow. Not likely to cause anyone to do anything physically strenuous. If anyone is hallucinating its you pro- Z people. Again I ask, how can you justify killing an unarmed teen?

    • Dream on Zimbot. And you certainly are not eloquent. You are a racist , which is what unfortunately, so many of his supporters have shown. It’s sickening. Makes me want to take a shower. Ick. GZ was the THUG. Not Trayvon. You people are scary. You act normal and civil, yet hide behind your racist comments. And yet you walk amongst us. And pretend you are normal. Truly frightening 🙁

      • You know who the true racists are? The people who keep crying for GZ’s blood, despite facts that show he was attacked, not the other way around. Oh wait though, according to Eric Holder that cant be racist, since GZ isnt black. You’re right though, it is sickening that you people are among us.

        That “No Limit N**ga” hit his limit.

        • Do you know “No Limit Ni**a” is a reference to music? It was a Twitter handle referencing music. The kid loved rap music. Some folks like jazz, funk, heavy metal, hard rock, pop and country. He liked rap. The handle means nothing. There is no there there!

    • Trayvon Martin exposed the real thugs to the world. George Zimmerman, Bill Lee and the Sanford Police department.

    • Well, Not Too Eloquent, when a prisoner kills another prisoner, that perpetrator is still charged and provided due process. So, even a dead, convicted prisoner has rights. The same is true for prostitutes, members of the mob, and every human being. Our American justice system does not judge the value of human life based on purported superiority.

  10. Prove to me GZ was attacked by TM and then we’ll talk. You cannot prove it. You only have GZ’s words. And he’s a proven LIAR.

    • The autopsy shows abrasions on TM’s left hand (ring finger I think). Probable that he struck someone on the night he died. Couple that with GZ’s broken nose, bruised back of his head, etc (from his doctors report) and Id say he has a pretty solid body of evidence backing up his account that he was attacked.

      • JoshinGA,

        There is zero evidence of Zimmerman having a broken nose. Those abrasions he received didn’t even require a band-aid. His story doesn’t add up and his injuries are inconsistent with the tall tale he is telling. He can’t keep his lie lies straight.

      • One small cut on the ring-finger on the left-hand, below the knuckle on the inside of the hand. Hardly anything resulting in using fists, but more along the line of a defensive wound, such as warding off a blow from a tactical flashlight. You know — the tactical flashlight that GZ never mentions dropping? The tactical flashlight that GZ would have us believe that he held onto for 40 ft while having his head smashed and doing the shimmy to the sidewalk? That tactical flashlight.

      • An abrasion, not abrasions. How does an abrasion to a finger of a left hand show he probably struck someone?

        • an abrasion is a wound caused by superficial damage to the skin, no deeper than the epidermis. It is less severe than a laceration, and bleeding, if present, is minimal. Mild abrasions, also known as grazes or scrapes, do not scar or bleed, but deep abrasions may lead to the formation of scar tissue. A more traumatic abrasion that removes all layers of skin is called an avulsion.

          Abrasion injuries most commonly occur when exposed skin comes into moving contact with a ****rough surface,**** causing a grinding or rubbing away of the upper layers of the epidermis.

          rough surface – not a nose!!

  11. I’ll say it once, and I’ll say again: responsible gun owners that choose to fly their banners in favor of Mr. George Z. do so at their own peril. I think we’re all better off distancing ourselves from association with this guy until the dust settles, and the case is resolved. I don’t think he’ll be convicted of 2nd murder, but manslaughter seems pretty likely at this point.

    There are plenty of other DGU stories that are far more praiseworthy and respectable than GZ’s shooting of Trayvon Martin. I’d rather those get more attention from the press… but they won’t as long as we insist that GZ is some sort of modern day firearm hero.

    • I don’t see any gun owners here “flying a banner” for GZ or considering him “some sort of modern day firearm hero”. I see an attempt at rationally discussing the known facts of the case. HUGE difference.

    • g,
      Allowing the railroading of a gunowner who *possibly* used his gun in self defense doesnt help the cause. It hurts it. It paints gun owners as homicidal maniacs, which most all of us arent, not matter how much the antis want to paint it as such. Logically pointing out the evidence, which in this case seems pretty tough considering the preponderance of mass media brainwashed commenters on this story, isnt a bad thing for the gun community.

      • Josh- and yet you REFUSE to acknowledge the evidence! Where is the DNA that should be all over Martin and yet isn’t. Where is the blood that should be all over Martins hands? GZs injuries were so minor that the EMTs didn’t even give him any band aids. The nose was not x- rayed thus there is zero evidence the nose was broken. You say you want to have an intelligent debate well then ADDRESS the forensic evidence. Repeating your mantra will also not prove your pint nor save GZ from decades in prison.

    • G – What a breath of fresh air. You are absolutely correct. Those of us who support 2nd Amendment Rights and work to encourage others to train properly, and to know the laws associated within their state are doing a service to our families, our neighbors, and our country. The armed community as a whole is a down to earth, patriotic group who believe in the values of our founding fathers. All of these people never intend to shoot a person. They purchased a weapon knowing that if they were attacked, they would protect themselves.

      The main thing we all fear is when a person exercising their 2nd Amendment rights to own and use a firearm steps outside the lines of the law that causes a backlash against responsible gun owners. The vigilantes or the instigators among the gun owners, impact all responsible gun owners.

      Zimmerman may not have had a problem with all black people, but he was clearly racist in his prejudice about black male adults he didn’t personally know, making the assumption that all of them when seen in his neighborhood and surrounding area were criminals, based on his calls to law enforcement over an extended period. That shows he operated on assumptions that were both false and negative, and was willing to exceed reasonable force and authority, which also supports him wrongly shooting Trayvon Martin.

      Zimmerman’s first mistake was getting involved beyond the phone call to NEN. I carry a concealed weapon for one reason and one reason only, to defend the lives of my family and myself. I own nothing that is worth a human life, nor do my neighbors. If I pull up in my driveway and see a suspicious person carrying off my television set, I am going to call LE and let them deal with it. If you breakdown my door where I and my family are, I am going to assume you are going to do me or my family harm, and I will shoot your ass.

      As responsible gun owners, I am voicing my opinion because a juvenile who was doing nothing wrong and was where he belonged was needlessly murdered because of one irresponsible vigilante gun owner. And just as I suspected, anti-gun activists are beating down the doors to curb people’s 2nd amendment rights. The only way to counter that is to demonstrate that as a responsible common sense gun owner, I can see the difference between true legitimate self-defense circumstances versus a lame excuse of self-defense in an attempt to avoid being held accountable for the actions of a delusional wanna-be cop. Zimmerman alone is personally responsible for his actions. Trying to connect this to law abiding permit holders is as egregious as trying to connect the Muslim faith to a few terrorists.

      Responsible gun owners would do well to recognize that Zimmerman’s actions does not represent conduct that is considered responsible or in good judgment as a gun owner.

      Thanks for having the nerve to speak up G.

  12. “Cielo Perdomo says:
    September 29, 2012 at 22:39

    Maybe you need to read better articles about the forensic evidence. The bullet went in STRAIGHT, front to back, which is IMPOSSIBLE to do from on your back from about 4-6 inches without an angle. ”

    The statement above is inconsistent with the known facts and presumes to indict Zimmerman by delving into geometries that are not only possible, but highly probable.

    Moreover, whereas the medical examiner called the shot as being of “intermediate range” which is accepted to mean from 1 to 18 inches, the subsequent FDLE lab report dated March 22, 2012 examined both garments worn by Martin and concluded: “Both holes display residues and physical effects consistent with a contact shot”.

    J.

    • Amy Siewert is the firearms expert and her report was in the first document dump. She described the locations of the two holes in the sweatshirts. Siewert said the holes in the sweatshirts aligned with each other and were 7 inches below the shoulder/neck seam. Dr. Bao said the entry wound was 1 inch to the left of the midline and 1/2 inch below the nipple.

      We have yet to see the final report, but the distance between the holes and the entry wound and determine the angle of their displacement from the vertical is approximated at 3 inches with a displacement toward the left shoulder. If correct, this would support a finding that at the time Trayvon was shot, someone or something was pulling or holding onto his hoodie sweatshirt.

      The prosecution team has most likely followed up with Siewert and Dr. Bao to nail down this point as well as the apparent discrepancy between her characterization of the hole as having been caused by the muzzle of the gun in contact with the fabric and his characterization of the shot having been fired from an intermediate range (i.e., 0.5 centimeters to 1 meter).

      For the record that Dr. Bao described the entry wound as 3/8 inch in diameter with a 2 X 2 area of stippling around the wound. Stippling is caused by unburned gun powder that enbeds in the wound and its periphery. The farther away the muzzle of the gun, the larger the area of stippling. With handguns there is no stippling apparent when the muzzle of the gun exceeds 1 meter from the entry wound at the time the shot is fired.

      Contact wounds characteristically cause the skin to tear. This condition is called starring and it’s caused by the expanding gasses released by the burning gunpowder.

      Siewert observed torn fabric that spread out from the holes caused by the shot. She prepared some cutouts using fabric from the two sweatshirts (actually the interior one has been redesignated as a shirt by the DNA analyst) and test fired Zimmerman’s gun using the same ammo from several different distances, including a contact shot. The tearing in the result from the experimental contact shot matched the tearing in the hole in the sweatshirt and that is why she concluded that it was a contact shot.

      Dr. Bao did not note any tearing or starring around the entry wound.
      D. Vincent di Maio, a respected forensic pathologist and the former Medical Examiner for Bexar County, Texas (San Antonio) reviewed Dr. Bao’s autopsy Report and estimated the muzzle of the gun was 2 to 4 inches from the entry wound when Zimmerman fired the fatal shot.
      Dr. Bao characterized the fatal shot as “Directly, front to back.”

      This is all the evidence there is thus far.

    • Amy Siewert is the firearms expert and her report was in the first document dump. She described the locations of the two holes in the sweatshirts. Siewert said the holes in the sweatshirts aligned with each other and were 7 inches below the shoulder/neck seam. Dr. Bao said the entry wound was 1 inch to the left of the midline and 1/2 inch below the nipple.

      While we have no reports as to the distance between the holes and the entry wound and the angle of their displacement from the vertical, it is approximated at 3 inches with a displacement toward the left shoulder. This would lead to the conclusion that someone or something was pulling on Trayvon’s sweatshirt/hoodie at the moment he was shot.

      The prosecution team has most likely followed up with Siewert and Dr. Bao to nail down this point as well as the apparent discrepancy between her characterization of the hole as having been caused by the muzzle of the gun in contact with the fabric and his characterization of the shot having been fired from an intermediate range (i.e., 0.5 centimeters to 1 meter).

      For the record that Dr. Bao described the entry wound as 3/8 inch in diameter with a 2 X 2 area of stippling around the wound. Stippling is caused by unburned gun powder that enbeds in the wound and its periphery. The farther away the muzzle of the gun, the larger the area of stippling. With handguns there is no stippling apparent when the muzzle of the gun exceeds 1 meter from the entry wound at the time the shot is fired.

      Contact wounds characteristically cause the skin to tear. This condition is called starring and it’s caused by the expanding gasses released by the burning gunpowder.

      Siewert observed torn fabric that spread out from the holes caused by the shot. She prepared some cutouts using fabric from the two sweatshirts (actually the interior one has been redesignated as a shirt by the DNA analyst) and test fired Zimmerman’s gun using the same ammo from several different distances, including a contact shot. The tearing in the result from the experimental contact shot matched the tearing in the hole in the sweatshirt and that is why she concluded that it was a contact shot. Dr. Bao did not note any tearing or starring around the entry wound.

      D. Vincent di Maio, a respected forensic pathologist and the former Medical Examiner for Bexar County, Texas (San Antonio) reviewed Dr. Bao’s autopsy Report and estimated the muzzle of the gun was 2 to 4 inches from the entry wound when Zimmerman fired the fatal shot.
      Dr. Bao characterized the fatal shot as “Directly, front to back.”

      That is all the evidence there is thus far.

      • Is it possible that all three experts cited are correct? The simple answer is Yes. How could that be? Well, this way: the muzzle of the firearm was in contact with the garments, while the garments were hanging “2-4 inches” away from the skin. Now, how could that happen you might ask? I’ll let you figure that one out…. (hint: gravity)

        Best,

        J.

        • Jose – we are both entitled to our opinions, but the only ones that will count are those that are presented at the dispositive hearing of this case, whether that be through a NON-SYG hearing or Trial.

  13. Who’d want some punk taunting residents in their neighborhood with a foul mouth who constantly get’s booted out school, just one stupid decision after another.

    GZ the gentle one with no history of violence (unlike TM) has told the exact same story over and over.

    There’s nothing lower than a rotten cheap shot artist and money grubbing parents who can care less for all the innocent people attacked and the lives they destroy for personal & financial gain.

    • “GZ the gentle one with no history of violence (unlike TM) has told the exact same story over and over. ”

      EXCUSE ME??!!! Are you confused? What “history of violence” does Trayvon have?

      George has 3 arrests – granted no convictions (helps to have family/friends) but there were ARRESTS.

      Ask Veronica Zuazo about his violence. Ask Daniel Osmun about his violence.

      And who is it who was fired from his bouncer/security job for (illegal) house parties after 4 years because he was too aggressive?

      There is NO evidence of Trayvon Martin being aggressive – there is talk, but NO evidence.

    • nomamizeerf

      You are seriously misinformed. Trayvon Martin had no history of violence. He was never arrested. So where is the history? The kid was an honor student, loved by his parents, his teachers describe him as cheerful, very creative, a kid with a very bright future. George Zimmerman has a pattern of violence and bullying, a criminal record, domestic violence, assaulting a law enforcement officer, arrested 4 times, abuses defenseless animals, molested his cousin, threw a woman across the room, turned off his mother’s electricity, hit his ex-girlfriend in the mouth for chewing gum, had a restraining order against him, bullied a co-worker, fired from a job because of his aggressive behavior and killed an innocent kid who was only carrying candy and a drink.

      While the state law enforcement agents were processing the prisoners, George Zimmerman approached one of the prisoners and asked the prisoner what was going on. Fleischman informed Zimmerman that he was a state law enforcement agent, showed Zimmerman his badge, and told him to wait off to the side and Fleischman would explain to him what was going on after the agents were finished with the prisoners. Zimmerman had an angry demeanor and told Fleischman that he did not care who he was. Fleischman attempted to escort Zimmerman away from the scene. Zimmerman then shoved Fleischman, at which point all of the agents on the scene pushed Zimmerman onto the hood of Fannin’s car and placed him under arrest for battery on a law enforcement officer.

      http://www.scribd.com/doc/99926375/99916379-Documents-Given-to-the-Defendant-R-1

    • @nomamizeerf

      Who’d want some punk taunting residents in their neighborhood with a foul mouth who constantly get’s booted out school, just one stupid decision after another.

      You mean such as the foul language on GZ’s 911 call? A 28 yr old man who failed required college courses and barely passed others in his major, such as Introduction to Criminal Justice? A foul mouth 28 yr old man who says he is ADHD, taking Adderall, with contains the same ingredient as Ecstasy? A foul mouth 28 yr old man who is a college failure with ADHD who was fired from a job as a bouncer for being too physical? A foul mouth 28 yr old man who is college failure with ADHD who was fired from his job as a used car salesman after hazing an Asian co-worker? The same 28 yr old who, when he killed Trayvon Martin, knew nothing about Trayvon other than his physical appearance?

      Yep. That’s the one who awaits trial for 2nd degree murder. His name is George Zimmerman — not Trayvon Martin.

  14. I would compel readers study the evidence, listen to the tapes, and Zimmerman’s many statements and reenactment. People need to remember that GZ had been stalking/following Trayvon by vehicle and then on foot for at least 10 minutes before he ever called the NEN dispatch. Zimmerman states to the dispatcher that Trayvon was running. DeeDee substantiates that Trayvon was afraid and ran, and once he got to a certain point, he felt that he had managed to get away from Zimmerman, but then Zimmerman reappeared.

    In a nut shell, you have a 28 year old armed man chasing a 17 year old in the dark between apartment buildings. GZ is not telling Trayvon that he means him no harm, that he simply is with the neighborhood watch and wants to know what is going on. There are also statements in the discovery which indicate GZ was yelling at Trayvon in a deep, authoritative voice. Therefore, was Zimmerman committing an assault upon Trayvon before any altercation happened? I think there is good legal argument that he was. Assault is defined as “an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent”. Stalking is also another form of assault. The question then becomes, “Is chasing someone unprovoked at night an act which indicates a threat to do violence?” I can tell you that if I am walking to my home at night and someone starts following me, first in a vehicle and then on foot, I am going to assume the person intends to hurt me. The bulk of Florida cases where an act is deemed to be a threat are where a person is driving a vehicle towards someone (usually law enforcement). The case law says that, whether or not an verbal threat is made, if a person drives a vehicle toward another and that person reasonably fears imminent danger, the driver has committed an assault. The case law supports this as an assault even if the vehicle only moved a few feet. Isn’t stalking and following someone unprovoked the same thing? Especially if the person following you is physically bigger and, most especially, armed? There is some very recent case law from the 2nd District Court of Appeals which says that in an assault “the State must prove that the defendant did an act that was substantially certain to put the victim in fear of imminent violence, not that the defendant had the intent to do violence to the victim.” Under this scenario, it wouldn’t matter whether or not GZimmerman intended to harm Trayvon when he followed him in his vehicle and then on foot, only that Tayvon reasonably feared imminent violence. I think the State argues the threat was the manner and length of time that Zimmerman was stalking/following/chasing Trayvon down.

    Ultimately, Zimmerman has ruined his own self-defense claim, because it rests upon Trayvon going for his gun. The trouble is, his gun can’t be the source of his fear for his life, since it is the only weapon and he is the one who brought it to the scene. If TM went for the gun, it counts as part of Trayvon’s self-defense. If Zimmerman keeps control of it, the law only recognizes Zimmerman’s right to retreat. O’Mara has apparently now come to the same conclusion and is going to claim that Zimmerman could not retreat because Trayvon was sitting on top of Zimmerman – this issue will come down to forensics, as I believe the bullet trajectory could not have occurred as it did with Trayvon being on top of Zimmerman. But even assuming Zimmerman was on bottom, Zimmerman states that the two were struggling over the gun – this necessarily means that Zimmerman was no longer in fear of imminent death or serious injury at the hands of Trayvon, but in fear of what would occur if Trayvon gained possession of the gun that Zimmerman himself brought to the scene. Zimmerman states further that in the struggle for the gun, he got Trayvon in a wrist lock, gained control of the gun, positioned his left hand so as to not shoot it, aimed, and fired “one shot.” Before pulling the trigger, he does not give Trayvon any warning or exhaust every reasonable means of avoiding killing Trayvon. Even a law enforcement officer is required to announce his/her intent to shoot before doing so. These very statements have ruined Zimmerman’s self-defense claim under any of the Florida self-defense statutes since you cannot possibly be in fear of imminent death or serious injury if you have control over your assailant and control over the only gun at the time you pull the trigger.

  15. All the shit house lawyers on parade here. The emotion and rage shown by both sides in this argument proves one thing beyond a doubt. There’s no hope for gz to get a fair and unbiased trial. Whether we like it or not he’s going to walk. All it takes is one juror to hold out.

    But it shouldn’t go that far. Any judge worth the title should recognise that there’s no way for a fair trial to happen and let gz out.

    • Lonnie Starr wrote

      It isn’t hard to disprove since GZ has already disproven it with his own words. He held the kid with one hand, while aiming his gun with the other! So, now he has to explain, what possible threat of imminent death or great bodily harm did he face at that moment when he decided to pull the trigger? That Trayvon could some how kill him almost instantly if he didn’t shoot him then and there?

      Like the martial artist says, people don’t scream for help while they’re fighting. If they’re screaming for help that means they’ve stopped fighting. When you are fighting you are helping yourself, there’s no mental capacity left to scream, because you’re focused on fighting. Only when you surrender is your mind free to do other things like scream for help. Clearly a person with one hand holding your clothing, while their other hand is holding a fire arm, is not in any danger and has no need of help.

      Zimmerman’s failure to show that he faced an imminent threat of death or great bodily injury AT THE TIME HE PULLED THE TRIGGER, means that he is guilty of murder. Because Trayvon had no means of either killing him or even doing him great bodily harm at that point in time. MOM has no other defense so he has to cling to the idea of self defense and hope that a jury will agree. Obviously the evidence he has will not be convincing.

      I think that at some point, either GZ will do something stupid or the SP will level another charge and bail will be either raised or revoked. Because GZ isn’t taking his case very seriously at all. He still thinks that his brand of insanity will win the day. But either way there’s no hope of a plea deal, this case is an international display. International cases can and do impact foreign policy and national security. Just like anything else that becomes a global affair. As such the pressure is on the state to prove it’s case now. The time for bargaining has passed.

      http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/2012/09/27/zimmerman-why-no-amount-of-lawyers-guns-and-money-will-save-him/

      __________

      George Zimmerman is going to spend the rest of his miserable life in prison for murdering an unarmed innocent kid who was only carrying a drink and candy. He is a threat to society. Cage this animal!

    • @JWM – Let’s say your barely 17 year old daughter is skipping home from the local corner store headed home and Zimmerman decides she is suspicious – she isn’t doing anything wrong, merely meandering home, skipping, as she talks to her boyfriend on her cell phone. Zimmerman follows her in his vehicle, then on foot, and manages to finally confront her. Your daughter asks why he is following her – instead of saying he is part of the neighborhood watch program, he demands to know what she is doing there – five minutes later, your daughter is lying under a yellow tarp dead and Zimmerman, who has a few scratches on his head, no one saw the fight, but Zimmerman says he had to kill her because she hit him so he pulled his gun and shot her in self-defense. Are you content with the Judge just turning him loose?

      As a responsible gun owner I know that not all violent situations justify the use of a handgun. For example, a hostile confrontation with an enraged but unarmed individual doesn’t justify self defense with a handgun. Several factors must exist in order for you to legally use a handgun for self defense.

      The bottom line is, you must also rely on your own common sense and intelligence. A handgun places you in the position of judge, jury, and executioner – all in a matter of seconds. Once you make that decision to shoot, you must accept responsibility for your actions. If you are a hot-head or the type of person who instigates violence and then relies on packing heat to be your defender, you will most likely find yourself behind bars and rightfully so.

      If I am going to insist on my rights under the 2nd amendment, I figure I must also insist upon my rights under the 6th. In America, we still have the rule of law. And that means that no one is above the law and no one is beneath it. Everyone is subject to the law, and the government may not exclude anyone from its protections. That is the essence of our system of justice. It is mandated by the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, and its preservation is the reason we have fought our just wars.

      The term fair trial is a legal and ethical concept used to describe the procedural rules of a court and the treatment of those accused of a crime. According to democratic ideals, a fair trial is one in which the defendant’s rights are respected throughout the trial, the trial is handled according to due process and established law, and the judgment is handed down by a neutral body. In criminal cases, the defendant has the option of choosing a jury or a judge to be the trier-of-fact. If Zimmerman believes he cannot receive a fair trial by jury, he has the option of allowing the judge to decide his case.

    • @jwm. Maybe you are putting the cart before the horse. GZ will need to proceed on an immunity hearing first. That is decided by the judge. If he’s granted immunity from prosecution, then the case is dismissed. If he’s not granted immunity, then the case proceeds to trial.

      If there is anything that prevents GZ from getting a fair trial, it is his own tainting of the jury pool. Before he was charged, GZ’s family and surrogates litigated his position in the media. GZ’s brother is the latest surrogate to try and taint the jury pool, and who followed Mark Osterman, GZ’s BFF. Shall we also mention GZ’s youtube and website?

      The prosecution is not in the media litigating the case, trying to impress the potential jury pool on GZ’s guilt, are they?

      • Let me be up front about this. I could care less about gz or tm for that matter. I have stated here many times that there was enough stupid on the street that night to go around for all.

        The facts are that gz put himself in a position that was easy to avoid.

        But tm also put himself in an unwinnable position. Tm was 17 and in good health. He could have easily outrun and out manuerved gz in the dark and with the rain coming down. If the cops had been after tm they would have had to blanket the area with men and probably brought in dogs or a chopper.

        Tm was talking to his girlfriend on the phone. Instead of calling the cops about the man chasing him or calling his father who was nearby he continued talking to his girlfriend.

        Gz was a failed cop wannabe and if the pictures are anything to go buy he was an out of shape cream puff. Once tm lost him in the rain he should have been safe but he gave that advantage away so he could prove his street cred to his girlfriend. That’s what got tm killed. The arrogance and pride of a 17 yo who thought he was bad.

        Again, I could care less about gz. But when even the president feels compelled to make a statement about this incident I know that there’s not going to be a fair trial.

        Gz will walk. Had the DA charged him with manslaughter first there would have been a possibility of a conviction. But this Corey person doesn’t look to competent.

        And if you’re going to call me a racist at least get it right. I’m an OFWG . So since neither tm or gz are white why should I take sides.
        but the truth is I think gz is gonna walk.

        • TM had walked nearly a mile both ways and he was also not an athlete. He was tired by the time GZ cut him off on his way back to where he was visiting. No , he didn’t hang around trying to impress his girlfriend. His way was blocked by GZ. The evidence, specifically the forensics, will nail GZ. He will get a fairer trial than most people but it won’t save him.

        • Ironically Cielo posts about TM not being athletic right above his/her buddies post about TM’s football coach saying he was a good kid. LOL.

        • @jwm

          Gz will walk. Had the DA charged him with manslaughter first there would have been a possibility of a conviction. But this Corey person doesn’t look to competent.

          You do realize that jury instructions provide for the jury to find guilt for lesser offenses, such as manslaughter and criminal assault with a deadly weapon? Corey didn’t successfully complete college, 3 yrs of law school, and pass the Bar to need validation from you or anyone else who disagrees with her.

        • Xena, Rachel, Skylight. Your opinion is no more valid than my opinion on these forums. I’ve put myself in tm’s place and war gamed it in my head. I came out of boot camp at 17. From personal experience and training i know just how hard it is to come to contact with a specific individual on a rainey night.

          If tm was being confronted on a street at night by a total stranger he had to assume that stranger was armed, this is America after all. The outcome of this event tells me that tm didn’t try hard enough or at all to escape and evade.

          and why when all this was happening did he not call the police or his father? gz found time to call 911.

          Again, personally I don’t care if gz gets the needle. But let’s not kid ourselves and claim this is about justice or a fair trial.

          And none of us has a crystal ball so we’ll have to wait for the trial to play out. I’ve seen nothing to change my prediction that gz will walk and then make money off his memoirs. And if it means anything to you, I’m not spending a dime on the book.

      • Xena, are you serious?, this case is all about Corey framing and smearing GZ in the media.

        How is it possible people are so BLIND ?

        • @nomamizeerf

          Xena, are you serious?, this case is all about Corey framing and smearing GZ in the media.

          How is it possible people are so BLIND ?

          Blind, like SA Wolfinger? When Corey was appointed special prosecutor, she conducted an investigation. When Wolfinger refused to arrest GZ on a Capias for manslaughter, he had not obtained any physical nor forensic evidence.

          When Corey proceeded on investigation, she obtained phone logs, and videos.

          When Wolfinger refused to arrest GZ on a Capias for manslaughter, he had not obtained any phone logs or videos.

          Those not fully informed of the available information are ignorantly blind, while others are willfully blind. If you don’t have time to examine the discovery material and understand it, then it’s best not to practice willful ignorance.

    • And all the people on gz’s side say he wasn’t a racist and mentored black kids. We can go back and forth all day but the end results are going to happen in the court, not the interwebz. All this talk does is add to the defense’s claim that gz can’t get a fair trial.

      • Listen to yourself….And all the people on gz’s side say he wasn’t a racist and mentored black kids. Good grief! Is that suppose to excuse his crime? You can’t be serious? I don’t care if he mentored 50 black kids. He committed murder of an unarmed innocent kid for walking while black. BTW…where are these black kids? Pray tell? How could he possibly mentor anyone? His GPA is below a 2.0. He failed at college like he has with everything. If I were you I wouldn’t ever bring up the word “mentoring” and George Zimmerman in the same sentence?

        Lastly, you need to start blaming O’Mara and his client about not getting a fair trial. They are the ones who went on Hannity trying to taint the jury pool. So cry me a river.

        • He didnt say tutored skylight, he said mentored. More or less big brother/big sister sort of stuff Im guessing is more along the lines of what GZ did. And how is bringing that up any different than any of the character statements released by the TM camp? Oh, its not? Thats what I thought.

          “He committed murder of an unarmed innocent kid for walking while black.” Ah, got it. You think he’s a racist. Takes one to know one.

        • Mentored them through a program or on his own? Mentored them in what? Where are these black kids? Why aren’t they coming forth?

      • Skylight, gz hasn’t committed a crime. He stands accused of a crime and until he’s found guilty in court he’s an innocent man.

        Don’t try so hard to prove your liberal cred.

  17. @Jose – So far, according to the discovery released to date, we know that there is one actual eye witness to the shooting. She says in her statement that at the time of the shooting the “larger” man was on top of the smaller man, and that when the shot was fired, the “larger” man got up and walked north in the direction of the “T”. This is in direct contradiction to what Zimmerman is claiming. Other witnesses who claim to have witnessed Trayvon as being on top of Zimmerman were all back in their apartments and were not observing the altercation at the time the shot was fired.

    Amy Siewert is the firearms expert and her report was in the first document dump. She described the locations of the two holes in the sweatshirts. Siewert said the holes in the sweatshirts aligned with each other and were 7 inches below the shoulder/neck seam. Dr. Bao said the entry wound was 1 inch to the left of the midline and 1/2 inch below the nipple.

    Although we do not have a report on it yet, the mark representing the hole in the sweatshirts is displaced toward the left shoulder and it is approximated at 3 inches with a displacement toward the left shoulder. In other words, this could conclusively prove that at the moment Trayvon was shot, someone was holding onto his sweatshirt/hoodie.

    While the prosecution team has most likely followed up with Siewert and Dr. Bao to nail down this point as well as the apparent discrepancy between her characterization of the hole as having been caused by the muzzle of the gun in contact with the fabric and his characterization of the shot having been fired from an intermediate range (i.e., 0.5 centimeters to 1 meter), we won’t be privy to that information until depositions are taken or expert reports are exchanged.

    For the record, Dr. Bao described the entry wound as 3/8 inch in diameter with a 2 X 2 area of stippling around the wound. Stippling is caused by unburned gun powder that enbeds in the wound and its periphery. The farther away the muzzle of the gun, the larger the area of stippling. With handguns there is no stippling apparent when the muzzle of the gun exceeds 1 meter from the entry wound at the time the shot is fired.

    Contact wounds characteristically cause the skin to tear. This condition is called starring and it’s caused by the expanding gasses released by the burning gunpowder.

    Siewert observed torn fabric that spread out from the holes caused by the shot. She prepared some cutouts using fabric from the two sweatshirts (actually the interior one has been redesignated as a shirt by the DNA analyst) and test fired Zimmerman’s gun using the same ammo from several different distances, including a contact shot. The tearing in the result from the experimental contact shot matched the tearing in the hole in the sweatshirt and that is why she concluded that it was a contact shot.

    Dr. Bao did not note any tearing or starring around the entry wound.
    D. Vincent di Maio, a respected forensic pathologist and the former Medical Examiner for Bexar County, Texas (San Antonio) reviewed Dr. Bao’s autopsy Report and estimated the muzzle of the gun was 2 to 4 inches from the entry wound when Zimmerman fired the fatal shot. Dr. Bao characterized the fatal shot as “Directly, front to back.”

    That is the evidence we have thus far. And while Zimmerman has already destroyed his self-defense claim, the prosecution will put on their full case in chief to the jury so that there is no confusion as to why Zimmerman is charged with Murder 2. In doing so, the bullistics and trajectory are going to be a major issue come trial or the Non-SYG motion.

    If nothing else, Zimmerman will go down in history as a reminder for all of us gun owners of what not to do when we find ourselves questioning someone’s motives and intentions within the community – he will most certainly be on the lips of every law professor explaining what a client should not do when facing criminal charges.

  18. Rachael says
    “George has 3 arrests – granted no convictions (helps to have family/friends) but there were ARRESTS.”

    That is exactly what i’m talking about 3 arrests is utter BS, he was arrested one single time … and we all know it was a horrifying and shocking stunning event.
    HE pushed an ABC undercover who was assaulting his friend, you all would’ve done the same thing unless your a coward.
    But OMG a push, WHAT SHOCKING VIOLENCE !.

    Going to court and winning a speeding ticket and having a non contact order is NOT an arrest….LOL !.

    Get your facts straight instead of falling for PROPAGANDA !.

    His ex said GZ would never ever hurt or start a fight with anyone.

    TM’s record has been sealed, you have to have at least one arrest to seal the record, “but it’s as long as my arm” said the leaker.

    Nobody can say anything publicly about TM without destroying their own lives … so wake up FEEBLE !, this is a scam started by Julison for $$$$$$$$.

  19. Zimmerman didnt even go to the doctor for his injuries he went to get a release form for work because he had just committed murder. Zimmerman didnt go to the ENT to get xrays to prove his nose was broken… Why? because it wasnt. GZ had to small lacerations on the back of his head and that very mild for being in a fight and claiming that your head was banged on cement numerous times. GZ set out to kill Trayvon that night and that is what he did and he must now pay for that. …… Oh and to whomever said he doesnt have a violent history YOU have not been following the case to well. He was entered into the diversion program for assaulting an officer and his conviction was removed. That is the only way he received his CCW permit.

  20. CherokeeNative says: “If Zimmerman believes he cannot receive a fair trial by jury, he has the option of allowing the judge to decide his case”.

    Yes, the judge will decide the hearing, as WE all know !

    TM was a laying in wait thug, TM knew exactly what was happening and decided to attack and try to crush the the skull of GENTLE GEORGE, who unlike TM was working full time to support his wife and going to school, quite a load for someone with ADD, but he still tried and even went to a doctor for help.

    TM needed big time help but ran wild instead .

    Check his tweets, they sum it up.
    TM was not only kicked out of school repeatedly but lacked all class as a person.

    • Too bad for you, nomamizeerf, that Trayvon is not awaiting trial.

      Too bad for you, nomamizeerf, that you are apparently unaware of the clubhouse videos that the State entered into evidence and what those vids provide of GZ’s movements.

  21. People! People! Please don’t feed the trolls!! Especially since these are not your ordinary trolls, but rather rabid, Leatherman trolls.

    The worst is Cielo, who says:

    ” There were no drugs found in his system except for traces of weed that indicate he had smoked it about a week prior. Hardly “drugged out.”

    Problem being the toxicology report has never been made public. The chest blood was tested and THC and THC metabolites were both found which indicated levels suggestive of both recent and frequent use.

    So just remember, John Wayne Gacy was a wonderful human being except for all those boys he raped, murdered, and buried in his crawlspace.

    Got it! Trouble with trying to reason with trolls like Cielo is that you will only make them more rabid. Stop feeding them and they WILL go away. They feed on attention.

    Just remember, TM had no drugs in his system except for the drugs in his system! My brain hurts!

  23. The number of lies I saw listed above are amazing. I’ll skip over the bizarre and just remind people nothing bad happened until Trayvon decided to come back and approach George’s truck in a threatening manner, circled it, stared and ran. George went to see where he ran but he was out of sight. George talked calmly to the dispatcher for a while and headed back to his truck where Trayvon confronted and attacked George.

      • Umm, yes there is. Both GZ on his recorded call and Crump said DeeDee said Trayvon was going to look in the truck. The rest of the recorded call has George talking very calmly. The fact George’s keys that were in his hand wound up feet from the sidewalk that led to his truck, several witnesses that place the altercation starting there, Dee Dee backing up George by saying Trayvon spoke first, the fact Trayvon was never struck but George certainly was. The list goes on and on but you refuse to see the obvious.

  24. @nomamizeerf – I have spoken politely and respectful about both sides of this case – why do you feel the need to trash talk the victim? Do you personally know the victim or the defendant? If this was your child, would you want the same treatment for him/her? I haven’t quiet figured out what makes one think that they can lose all common respect and decency for someone just because they have the ability to hide behind a computer screen. But I am pretty sure that if this were your child, or loved one laying under that tarp, you would not be so supportive of the defendant or wanting complete strangers blogging trash talk about your child or loved one. Try to have some respect.

    If you have reviewed all of the evidence and facts, you know that Trayvon was followed for at least 10 minutes that we are aware of (maybe more if we consider that Zimmerman may have been following him before he called the NEN). We, as mothers, parents, school officials, teach our children that when a stranger follows you, someone tries to come near you, touches you, chases you, you friggin fight, you scream, you kick, you scream some more and you fight some more…..but now that the DNA results have come out, it doesn’t look Trayvon did even that once Zimmerman attempted to detain him. But in truth, Trayvon had no idea who this nut job was – he could have been a sexual predator, pedophile (which is still questionable), he could have been a gang member, he could have been a stupid dumb paranoid delusional wanna-be cop dude that had a gun attached to his butt for balls….so IF Trayvon did touch Zimmerman, he was doing what he had been trained to do since he was a little child old enough to leave his mom’s side. He had that right ethically and legally – any aggression he may have exhibited was warranted under the law and taught by us as adults. GZ was an adult and as a supposedly responsible gun owner with a concealed weapon should have realized that.

    I think other responsible gun owners will agree with me in this respect. When you carry a concealed weapon, you take on extra responsibilities and are accountable for your actions. You must be responsible enough to know that just because you have a gun on you hip such does not make you the town constible, sheriff, law enforcement or campus security guard. The defendant in this case did not use common sense or good judgment and a child lost his life as a result.

    Oh, and IF there is a pretrial hearing on Zimmerman’s self-defense claims, yes, it will be heard by a Judge. Sorry if you were confused that I was speaking of a trial – but if you go back and read what I was responding to and discussing, the topic was a “fair trial.” No mention of a pretrial self-defense motion.

    And, for everyone’s information, I am not a troll any more than the rest of you commenting here – I am a responsible gun owner who has followed this site for many months – long before Zimmerman decided to kill a child.

    • @CherokeeNative.
      When the facts are against you, argue the law.
      When the law is against you, argue the facts.
      When the facts and the law are against you, make personal attacks.

      Now we understand the reason for the attempted diversion of discussion of facts and law to making personal attacks.

    • Where is there any proof George tried to detain him? There is none. TM had minutes to just walk home but he did not. Predators don’t sit in their car talking on the phone in plain view. The DNA supports George’s story. I have no idea how you can twist basic facts into a surreal reality. The facts support George.

      • Well Mongo, glad you ask. According to DeeDee, she could hear Trayvon saying “get off, get off” which leads me to believe that Zimmerman was attempting to detain Trayvon in some manner.

        You have to ask yourself, what was Zimmerman going to do once he caught up with Trayvon? I am assuming he had some intention but that is only my opinion and not the facts. The jury will have to decide that as well.

        But at this juncture, we do have DeeDee’s statement.

        • George was just standing there in the dark talking calmly to the dispatcher. He was not trying to catch up with anyone. Dee Dees testimony helps George. When Trayvon’s voice got lower, meaning whispering to avoid detection. He was still in hiding near the scene minutes later. Trayvon approached George near the “T” and spoke first by both accounts. How did that happen if Trayvon did not confront George?

    • 1) It is a reference to a hip-hop song – Mystikal
      Ain’t No Limit

      Songwriters: TYLER, MICHAEL / LAWSON, CRAIG STEPHEN / MILLER, VYSHONN KING

      2) He was 17.

      3) 17-year-olds like to choose outrageous and shocking names.

      4) Does it shock you? If so, then it sounds like he was a pretty normal 17-year old.

        • Actually, I think it is the song No Limit Niggas – Kane & Able. I just know that “nigga” is a word often used in modern American hip hop music.
          Tupac, who has been credited with legitimizing the term, said his song N.I.G.G.A. stood for “Never Ignorant Getting Goals Accomplished.”

          Isn’t what racist? Trying to be shocking at 17?

          If you are talking about the word “nigga,” it dependens on the context. The word nigga is used among young members of all races and ethnicities in the United States as part of their vernacular.

          Some African-Americans only consider it offensive when referred to as a nigga by white Americans. In this case, the term may be seen either as a symbol of brotherhood, similar to dude and bro, and its use outside a defined social group an unwelcome cultural use.

          I guess it could be racist – if you are a racist and think it is an excuse to call African Americans that word with er instead of an a.

  26. The State’s case appears based on Witness 2’s account of a chase and Dee Dee. W2’s account was recanted. Double D’s has yet to be clearly understood. I still see no conviction.

    • Why do you say Trayvon punched George in the nose? Why do you say it was broken? A bloody nose does not mean a broken nose and there is no proof of a broken nose.

      A “broken nose” is kind of a catch-all term for an injured nose and regardless if broken or just a bloody nose, the treatment is the same – ice. It is a minor injury that causes bleeding because it is a very vascular area and it doesn’t take much for a nose to bleed. To know if it was indeed broken, x-ray confirmation would need to be made – but GZ refused followup so there is no proof of a broken nose.

      And suppose Trayvon did punch him? If you saw someone watching you, making a phone call while looking at you, getting out of their vehicle to follow you, followed you, approached you and you asked them what they were doing and they didn’t give you an answer, how would you know they weren’t after you for something bad like to rob or assault you? If that happened to me, I would punch someone in the nose too.

      But no one saw Trayvon punch George in the nose and he could have had a bloody nose just from rolling around on the ground with him trying to assault him.

      There is no proof that Trayvon punched George or that George had a broken nose.

        • Would you please show me anywhere that I said George was uninjured? I did not say he was not injured.

      • Aggrevated assault is a felony. The state does NOT dispute the FACT that Mr. Martin broke Georgie’s nose and later continued the assault on him. Public assumption to the contrary of that FACT doesn’t change the evidence.

        • Mongo, I am not sure whether the State disputes or not, because the State is not running off at the mouth. Even if they concede that Trayvon TOUCHED GZ, Trayvon had the right to defend himself.

          To say this from a litigation perspective, if not but for the fact that GZ got out of his vehicle and followed Trayvon, the two would not have come into physical contact.

        • How do you know the state does not dispute the “fact” that Trayvon broke George’s nose? There is a reason the defense fought so hard to obtain George’s complete medical records. Why do you think that was?

      • Rachael, you make excellent points. All that GZ has to support his story is his word. He has already impugned his credibility.

    • @Not Too Eloquent.

      Why did Trayvon punch George in the nose, breaking it a causing loss of blood?

      Why didn’t GZ go to the ER for a blood transfusion?
      Why did GZ tell dispatch to have the cop call him for his location?
      Why did GZ stalk Trayvon for more than 15 minutes before he called NEN?
      Why didn’t GZ drop his tactical flashlight at the T where he left his keychain?
      Why did GZ need to walk in the direction he saw Trayvon take?
      Why did GZ need to get an address on a street where he was not parked, when the house on the corner where he says he parked has an address on the front of it?
      Why doesn’t GZ have defensive wounds?
      Why does GZ believe his actions were all “God’s plan,” but yet complains about being homeless, unemployed, and unable to leave Seminole County?

      You see, GZ is awaiting an immunity hearing, so he’s the one who has to answer questions pertaining to his actions. O’Mara cannot defend GZ by asking questions that only Trayvon can answer. Trayvon is not on trial. He cannot be questioned and cross-examined so asking questions about his purported actions is completely irrelevant.

      • Since none of your leaky buckets hold water it is hard to respond, let me try.
        Why didn’t GZ go to the ER for a blood transfusion?
        Why on Earth would he need a blood transfusion?
        Why did GZ tell dispatch to have the cop call him for his location?
        Because he had trouble telling them where he was other than the clubhouse. Simple.
        Why did GZ stalk Trayvon for more than 15 minutes before he called NEN?
        What? There is no evidence of stalking much less for your lying timeframe. GZ never “stalked” TM.
        Why didn’t GZ drop his tactical flashlight at the T where he left his keychain?
        It was in his pocket by then since it did not work.
        Why did GZ need to walk in the direction he saw Trayvon take?
        To see where he ran. Why would he walk in any other direction?
        Why did GZ need to get an address on a street where he was not parked, when the house on the corner where he says he parked has an address on the front of it?
        On the driver’s side there were no addresses. TM had moved from there and perhaps GZ wanted an address closer to where he last saw him.
        Why doesn’t GZ have defensive wounds?
        He was bloodied moron.
        Why does GZ believe his actions were all “God’s plan,” but yet complains about being homeless, unemployed, and unable to leave Seminole County?
        Shut up, he is in trouble because of whacko racists like you that want to harm he and his family.

        • Mongo, I responded to Not Too Eloquent’s question and had you read it, you would know the source for the blood transfusion question.

          You expect a “moron” to answer your questions. Keep waiting. Your name calling is a level where I won’t go.

  28. Was George responsible in his handling of his weapon? I debate about whether he carried into a potentially dangerous situation. I would not think a runner would stop running but 20/20 hindsight does not count. George spent roughly a minute underneath a superior fighter before firing. Trayvon definitely had the disparity of force advantage.

    • None of GZ’s DNA or blood was found on Trayvon’s nail clippings, neither hands. O’Mara can argue about the fight based on GZ’s renditions, but the forensics do not support his story.

      • Yes none of GZ’s DNA was found in the fingernail scrapings nor would anyone expect it since Trayvon was not scratching George. His hands were never tested nor is it normal to test open skin. They test for the presence of blood on clothes etc and then do a DNA sample.

        • @Mongo. The ME used finger nail clippings AND scrapes from beneath Trayvon’s fingernails. They do that for a reason. They know what they are doing. You might want to research for the reasons.

        • There is a reason they test for fingernail scrapings and yes, they would expect to find something there as opposed to open skin where one would not.

  29. As I’ve stated before I’m an OFWG. One who was born south of the mason dixon line, I’m old enough to remember signs that read “Whites Only”. Rachel, Skylight, Exna and CherokeeNative there’s a term from that time that applies to what you’re trying to do to GZ. It’s called a lynching. You folks should look into getting some white hoods.

    As for me, I’ll wait for the trial.

    • @jwm. Shooting an unarmed 17 yr old, 11th grader in the heart with a hollow point bullet as he is begging for his life is exactly what those in white hoods would do and expect not to answer to anyone for their actions.

      • Sooth your conscense any way you want to Xena, it’s still a lynching. After the trial I’ll gladly apologise if GZ is convicted.

        Until then I’ve called it like I see it.

        Scratch that, I’ll not apologise for asking to wait to see justice done. Regardless of the verdict.

        • jwm, I’m not sure what you’re saying. At one point, you advocate on behalf of GZ. Then you say you don’t care about either party. Then you play the race card, and now you speak as though the public, on a comment board, can convict GZ without a trial. Please remember this, it is GZ and his surrogates who have given the public the majority of things to discuss based on his words. If you don’t want people interested in his case, then please tell him, his surrogates, and his attorney, to shut up.

        • If you feel that I advocated for GZ I did not express myself well enough. I was simply trying to point out that things could have happened a different way than you think.

          And honestly I don’t care about either.

          As for the race card I think I was using some childhood examples of the way things were done that we can all agree were wrong. After all, if I was a racist who’s side would I come down on. I’m white and neither gz nor tm are/were white.

          I just pointed out that by condemming gz before the trial you were engaging in what amounts to a “lynching”.

      • Trayvon was not begging for his life, he was beating George. Hollow point bullets? That is what you should use. Full metal jackets would endanger bystanders. Hollow points are standard and responsible self defense bullets.

        • That is what you should use. Full metal jackets would endanger bystanders.

          Now that you mention it, GZ said that he did not know if he actually shot Trayvon. He had no concern for where the bullet went in a residential area but instead, jumped on Trayvon’s back. The State of Florida has already prevailed on a charge of assault with a deadly weapon when the defendant claimed a SYG defense. Statutory sentencing is 20 yrs. Jury instructions in Florida allow the jury to find guilt for lesser charges.

          Since GZ has admitted that he fired a gun not knowing if the bullet hit its intended target, how do you propose that O’Mara defend GZ to avoid a finding of guilt for firing a gun in a residential area?

    • OFWG – Old Fogie White Guy? I personally think it is “railroading” but I feel sorry for George. It appears that he was attacked and defended himself so far and his entire family is in hiding. His brother was chased out of a Mall by a group of thugs.

  30. The entire time George was doing his job as a neighborhood watch captain by reporting a suspicious guy from a distance. Trayvon made it up close and personal by confronting and attacking George.

    • If George had been doing his job as neighborhood watch captain, this would not have happened. He did not watch from a distance and he is the one who made it up close and personal, not Trayvon.

    • @Mongo. How do you propose that O’Mara use Trayvon’s social media at the immunity hearing?
      Also, you do understand that if O’Mara introduces Trayvon’s social media, it gives the prosecution standing to do the same with GZ’s, meaning, his MySpace page with the photo where he appears intoxicated; his comment about hating Mexicans; his comment about having his gang handle things, do a year, and not snitch on him; and how he managed to get slapped on the wrist for beating up the cop.

      • Many people get intoxicated from time to time. What’s your point? Also, since Trayvon wasn’t a Mexican (nationality not race), what’s your point? Sorry, in a character comparison based on social media George looks like a Saint compared to Trayvon.

        • @RiseFromBelow.

          Many people get intoxicated from time to time. What’s your point?

          The “many people” getting intoxicated should not include even ONE person who volunteers for neighborhood watch while carrying a loaded gun.

          Sorry, in a character comparison based on social media George looks like a Saint compared to Trayvon.

          You missed the point. First, O’Mara has not subpoenaed any social media source. That in fact, his subpoenas for Trayvon’s school records were filed pursuant to Florida Rules of Civil Procedure rather than Florida Rules of Criminal Procedure. Subpoenas to third-parties in criminal cases have to be approved by the judge. Thus, there is a hearing scheduled for 10/19 for the judge to decide whether to issue the subpoenas for Trayvon’s school records.

          When George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin, he knew nothing about him other than his physical description. IF O’Mara should discover anything evidencing that Trayvon had propensity towards physical violence, then GZ’s propensity towards violence is also open to presentation during immunity hearing and trial. His records already provide that GZ was physically violent. He obtained a license to carry a gun after demonstrating that violence.

          His reference to hating Mexicans is not to his benefit, especially since he wrote of having them pull knives on him. GZ’s gang tattoo questions why he came into contact with Mexicans who pulled knives on him, conveying a possible relationship with gang activity.

  33. “None of GZ’s DNA or blood was found on Trayvon’s nail clippings, neither hands. O’Mara can argue about the fight based on GZ’s renditions, but the forensics do not support his story”.

    Who cares, every chest compression was washing TM’s hands in sopping wet grass, all the movements and him laying in the rain says it all, no coherent human would expect DNA in such an event, BUT it doesn’t matter if it was there or not.

    Only Bozo TRUTHERS drown in the nonsense babble of this case.

    Last but not least: The CLUBHOUSE VIDEOS conspiracy ! !

    Yes it backs up GZ’s account all the way.

    They also back up DeeDee as a Liar, Trayvon was never at the “mail thing”

    • Who cares, every chest compression was washing TM’s hands in sopping wet grass, all the movements and him laying in the rain says it all, no coherent human would expect DNA in such an event, BUT it doesn’t matter if it was there or not.

      So are you saying the photos of GZ’s head with blood are faked, because GZ was subject to the same weather conditions.

      • No, the police arrived and put him in a police car within a minute. Also, his injuries were actively bleeding as seen by the police station pictures where he had fresh blood even after the EMT cleaned him up at the scene. Where do you get this crap and do you honestly expect anyone with even a passing familiarity with the case and evidence to believe your BS?

        • The only ones spewing bs are the Zimmerman supporters who cannot and will not accept the truth. Why is that?

        • @ Sky_Light.

          The only ones spewing bs are the Zimmerman supporters who cannot and will not accept the truth. Why is that?

          So you see the double-standard also. The argument that rain would wash blood and DNA off Trayvon’s hands (which were under his body), but not wash it off GZ’s head, which was not covered in any manner and directly exposed to rain, is so idiotic that one can only sigh and carry on. You can’t teach stupid.

  34. Why are Trayvon’s parents traveling the country to African-American Churches with Benjamin Crump, Esq., collecting trash cans full of cash?

    • Why does George’s parent’s have a website begging for money? At least we know one thing for certain – Trayvon is not a flight risk.

    • What does anything Trayvon’s parents are doing at this moment or since the murder of their son have anything to do with GZ’s defense to Murder 2 charges? I can guarantee you it will not be a point of contention during the NON-SYG hearing or the ultimate trial of the case. So I fail to see the point or purpose.

      This case should be important to responsible gun owners to the extent that we should want the ultimate outcome to demonstrate to the country that we as a gun owner society understand the responsibilities of gun ownership, understand what true self-defense entails, and do not condone the irresponsible use of a gun under the pretense of self-defense.

      So let’s get straight where I stand so that I’m not labeled erroneously. I’m a gun owner. I’ve gone through CCL training for my state and am currently hold my CCL. I have no problem in carrying a weapon and I have no problem in using it if some freak goes postal on me.

      However, none of the self-defense laws allows you to pursue a potentially dangerous situation that could result in you having to use lethal force when the pursuit could have been avoided. GZ’s conduct that night was not demonstrating anything near responsible gun ownership, common sense, or good judgment.

      It doesn’t really matter which scenario you want to accept from GZ on what led to him shooting Trayvon and resulted in Trayvon’s death. When GZ exited his vehicle, a vehicle he could have stayed within and kept law enforcement on the line, or he could have fled the scene (a scene which did not include imminent danger while in his vehicle!), he removed himself from a SYG defense. O’Mara understands this and that is why he has stated he is going for a mixture of the various self-defense statutes. But ALL of the self-defense statutes require that you reasonably fear imminent death or serious injury in order to use lethal force, all of the self-defense statutes with the exception of SYG require that you attempt to retreat before using lethal force.

      Zimmerman’s own statements have destroyed his claims of self-defense under any of the Florida self-defense statutes. Although the DNA forensics and the minor extent of GZ’s injuries do not support this, GZ states that Trayvon was on top of him pummeling him, hit him 20-25 times in the face, bashed his head into the concrete up to 35 times, and at the point that he pulled his gun, Trayvon had one hand over his nose and the other over his mouth, attempting to suffocate him. GZ further states that at the time that he pulled his weapon, it was because Trayvon was attempting to reach for it, and the two were wrestling to get the gun. He explains that he managed to get Trayvon in a wristlock and had the wherewithal to position his other hand out of the way so as to not shoot it, aimed, and pulled the trigger and fired one shot. He does not warn Trayvon that he is about to shoot, nor does he do anything else that could be construed as attempting to retreat – he focuses on the wristlock and making sure that he is not going to harm himself, aims and fires. Even LE officers announce that they are going to shoot before pulling the trigger. It was only after GZ had control over the situation through a wristlock and gun control —and not during an attack on GZ—that Trayvon was killed. Because Defendant was not under attack, but had gained control of the situation, there was no reasonable belief that deadly force was required. Although Trayvon was younger than GZ, GZ was larger and heavier than Trayvon, and under the circumstances, a jury will most likely find that Trayvon’s size did not cause any reasonable belief of danger. Indeed, GZ readily admits that he was not afraid of Trayvon. As such GZ cannot prove that Trayvon’s actions created a reasonable belief that deadly force was required to prevent imminent death, great bodily harm, or the commission of a forcible felony. See, e.g., Florida v. Dooley.

      GZ instigated the encounter, and GZ was the one who chose to arm himself while pursuing a teenager who was rightfully in the neighborhood and doing nothing wrong; GZ was the one who chose to exit his vehicle looking for the teen, even when he was told not to do so by police dispatch; It does not matter that GZ states that he was “returning to his truck” – Trayvon did not know that, and GZ took no action to insure that Trayvon knew that – Indeed, Trayvon asked a very good question, “why are you following me?” and GZ ignored that question – when he could have easily explained that he was a Neighborhood Watch Person; so GZ was the one who created a situation where, if a shoving match occurred between him and Trayvon, he could then argue that, the fact he was armed, made an unarmed teen a potentially lethal threat that put GZ in fear of his life, because GZ knew he had a gun that the boy could theoretically steal. “A killing is not justifiable or excusable if the defendant brought about the necessity therefor through his own wrongful act or without being reasonably free from fault in provoking the difficulty in which the killing occurred.” Lovett v. State, 30 Fla. 142, 11 So. 550, 17 L. R. A. 705; Ballard v. State, 31 Fla. 266, 12 So. 865; Padgett v. State, 40 Fla. 451, 24 So. 145. GZ admits that his fear was over Trayvon possibly gaining control over his gun. You cannot claim self-defense when the struggle is over a weapon that you brought into the equation where otherwise there would have been none. This is important to responsible gun ownership.

      As I have stated earlier in this thread, there are other reasons that GZ’s self-defense claims will fail, but the above is the crux of why GZ will not be able to prevail. It will most likely be shown at trial or the NON-SYG hearing that GZ’s conduct that evening constituted an assault on Trayvon according to Florida Statutes. This alone is sufficient to disqualify him from relying on the claim of self-defense.

      GZ isn’t being lynched. He is being held accountable for responsible gun ownership and his conduct that night. Along with the right to carry a concealed weapon comes a huge responsibility to utilize good sound judgment. Grand illusions that one is somehow an extension of law enforcement or protector of the universe because one has a weapon on his/her hip are not using common sense or good judgment.

      Responsible gun owners know this, and people like GZ only provides fuel to support those who want to take our 2nd amendment rights away. My purpose in speaking out against this tragedy, besides the fact that an innocent teen was murdered for no reason and his killer was going to walk away from any charges, was to demonstrate that as a responsible gun owner, I can see the difference between true legitimate self-defense circumstances versus a lame excuse of self-defense in an attempt to avoid being held accountable for the actions of a delusional wanna-be cop.

      I’ve said it above, and I will say it repeatedly here – bashing the victim or the defendant is doing nothing towards seeing that justice is served. The fact is, it would not matter if Trayvon had been a “goon” or “thug” – he was still a human being who had the right to be where he was that night and he was doing nothing wrong to warrant being treated differently – GZ would still be charged with Murder 2 under the circumstances that GZ created. Nor does making up lies about what is or isn’t in evidence change what facts and evidence will ultimately be presented come the NON-SYG hearing or trial.

      • You can’t argue with stupid. You can’t cure stupid.
        You can ignore the Leatherman trolls.

        CherokeeNative gave us a very long post highlighting his ignorance of Florida law.

        Oh! And he lied about what happened that night.

        My head hurts!

        • Clan – What you fail to realize, or chose to ignore in order to try and slander people for having a valid opinion supported by the law, facts and evidence is this: Florida law, is the law – it doesn’t change depending upon who is reading it. Likewise, the facts and evidence that are known to date, are not fluid and do not change. Therefore, it is not hard for educated people to be able to figure out the same legal analysis as it applies to the Zimmerman case.

          Why are you so threatened by this case? If you disagree, why can’t you support your position with the law when applied to the facts and evidence? Why do you insteand need to resort to name calling and making accusations of things you know nothing about? I have not searched you out – I am entitled to my opinion.

      • @CherokeeNative

        So let’s get straight where I stand so that I’m not labeled erroneously. I’m a gun owner. I’ve gone through CCL training for my state and am currently hold my CCL. I have no problem in carrying a weapon and I have no problem in using it if some freak goes postal on me.

        However, none of the self-defense laws allows you to pursue a potentially dangerous situation that could result in you having to use lethal force when the pursuit could have been avoided. GZ’s conduct that night was not demonstrating anything near responsible gun ownership, common sense, or good judgment.

        (Applause)

        • Sorry. Your knowledge of the law is wrong. Under what statue of Florida law was GZ not permitted to exit his vehicle?

          Just asking.

    • Who cares. It has nothing to do with the case against Zimmerman. Your question assumes facts that haven’t been qualified so far as I know and I don’t care to know. Not pertinent to the case.

  36. Why did Trayvon’s parents hire a Public Relations firm within a few days of his unfortunate passing?

    • You are not addressing your questions to me – so I don’t know who you are asking these questions of. As far as I am concerned none of these questions or the answers play a part in the State’s case against Zimmerman. So, I do not care – it is complete fluff. So, unless you are addressing your question to me, AND it is a question that is relevant to the case against Zimmerman, I am ignoring them. I don’t fall for the tit for tat games.

  37. Could the two fists of a a 17yo tall, strong, muscular football player be considered deadly weapons?

      • Quite serious. Given the element of surprise, darkness and a concrete sidewalk, I could literally beat to death the vast majority of the today’s American citizens with my bare fists, and I’m in my 40’s. Fortunately, I am not so inclined, as Trayvon was.

      • Florida law says you are wrong.

        My broken nose and bloody head should be all the proof a reasonable person would need.

        But we know you are not reasonable.

      • Sky – you and I know an unarmed person, especially a juvenile, is no match for a handgun – this is why you are only allowed to meet force with like force under the law. There is no evidence to support GZ’s claim that Trayvon inflicted the injuries he had to his head and there is no proof that GZ’s nose was broken. Except for GZ’s statements, these injuries could hve been caused by slipping, falling and hitting his head. There is a witness who states that he saw a person on the ground by himself groaning in pain prior to the shooting – this may have been when GZ fell and injured himself. No matter, whether or not GZ’s injuries were caused by Trayvon will be for a jury to decide – not people who choose to broadcast a combination of false statements, opinions presented as facts, transparent distortions, and ignore the most relevant details of this case. Not worth your time. Educated, reasonable, and responsible people will simply scroll past by the trash talk and accept it for what it is.

    • @Mongo. I asked you a question upthread, and the same applies to your recent comment. How do you propose that O’Mara use Trayvon’s social media at the immunity hearing?

        • To show he was a violent, multiple-drug abuser?

          That is actually not beneficial to GZ’s “reasonable person” defense. GZ said in his NEN call “He looks like he’s on drugs or something” yet he still got out of his truck to follow that “suspicious person” who ran from him. IOWs, O’Mara doesn’t have to confirm GZ’s profiling of Trayvon. Rather, he has to argue whether a reasonable person believing that the person is on drugs or something, would expose themselves to coming into direct physical contact with such a person.

  40. Are Sky_Light and CherokeeNative sock puppets? Or is there just a lot of plagerism going on?

    Lots of these people showing up at “CTH”. If we kick Obama out of office and the economy improves, they should be able to move out of the basement.

    Just sayin’!

    • I see them more as unemployed middle-aged women who don’t really fit in with society, possibly divorced, if not, call their husbands “DH” on line, with nothing to do really but to spend their days devoted to the Zimmerman case. This is the current “cause” in their lives.

  41. @KobeClan .

    Under what statue of Florida law was GZ not permitted to exit his vehicle?

    There are many privileges that Americans have, but using them in bad motive is what can make it unlawful. Additionally, those privileges cannot be exercised when the rules or laws say otherwise. For instance, GZ had a conceal carry license, but he (as an undeputized person) could not enter a federal building on the excuse that he is following someone or looking for an address. The same is true for airports, circuit court buildings, jails and any other building with metal detectors or that have no weapon entry rules.

    GZ’s problem is that he put on his NW hat when he called NEN. He was then subject to the rules of NW.

  43. Injuries do not mean self defense. George started it. No witness saw Trayvon beating GZ. GZ was the angry one, calling names and confronting TM, who was not breaking any laws. He was not in danger when he pulled the trigger! The evidence points to 2nd degree! Period!

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