Americans use guns to protect their lives and families at home every day. Plenty more use guns to defend innocent life in the workplace as well. Facing multiple intruders, a Galesburg, Illinios gun shop owner fired shots to protect himself during a forced entry last night.
Illinois gun shops have faced a persistent problem with gun thieves forcing entry, sometimes using stolen automobiles. They smash their way in, grab guns and then disappear into the night. This time, when it happened at Galesburg Guns, Gear and Ammo in Carl Sandburg’s hometown, the store owner was present.
At least one of the group of intruders received some ballistic dissuasion when they entered the store. Thanks to the shop’s camera system, store management and cops have nice quality video of the incident, along with an image of the license plate of the getaway ride.
The car’s driver dropped his bleeding buddy at the local hospital’s ER entrance before speeding back to Peoria. The guy they’d left at the hospital is now in the morgue.
Meanwhile, cops found the driver/car owner not long after. It wasn’t exactly tough detective work since the (alleged) perp used his own car. Perhaps he was unaware that the Illinois Gun Dealer Licensing Act now requires gun shops to keep their parking lots under video surveillance along with the interior of the stores.
Jakobe D. Brown, 18, now faces felony murder charges for the death of his un-named 17-year-old co-conspirator. There were others involved and cops no doubt would like to chat with them as well.
The Peoria Journal-Star has the story.
A 17-year-old of Galesburg died Wednesday following a gunshot wound, according to Galesburg police.
A Peoria man, 18, is now in custody, arrested on burglary and felony murder charges connected to the case, though he was not arrested as the triggerman.
Police responded to Galesburg Guns and Ammo on South Henderson Street Wednesday in reference to a disturbance there involving gunshots. When officers arrived, they determined that several suspects had broken into the business.
According to police, the owner of the business was inside it during the break in, and a preliminary investigation indicated that the business’ owner fired four to five shots at the suspects after they entered the gun shop.
Police say that shortly after that a vehicle pulled up to the emergency room of Cottage Hospital. A 17-year-old male was dropped off at the front door with a gunshot wound, and the others in the vehicle immediately drove away. Hospital staff provided medical aid to the teen, who later died from his injuries.
Hopefully news of this failed attempt at a smash and grab gun shop heist will help deter other underachievers from a similar fate. At the same time, it may also nudge some gun shop owners into bringing a cot to work for an occasional overnight stay.
Do we dare go back to talking about why gun store owners do not lock up their inventory after close of the business day? If the guns are not on shelves, seems less likely people would drive vehicles through the doors/windows to get at the guns.
Unless you’re installing a bank vault to keep them in, they’re no safer locked in a safe than being locked in a secure building.
The point is they are safer in an locked metal box than on the shelf or in the glass cases. A lot harder to smash and grab.
If you don’t agree explain why.
Forklifts are pretty sweet for lifting safes, all the guns are in a neat little box too. Fork lift it right into the back of an attenuated moving truck, no GPS, no cellular signals, just a box full of guns.
If you want a legitimate BANK vault, the door alone is many tons and effectively impossible to install into an already built building without being cost prohibitive, requiring construction permits, etc. A vault on it’s own is cost prohibitive.
This is also the United States of America and the law respecting should not be financially punished due to the lawless.
Still better to box them than leave on display. Forklifts aren’t really practical for 30 second smash and grab.
I would have two safes full of bricks and scrap metal as decoys just for shots and goggles.
GS650G,
Thank you for the hearty belly laugh! I needed that after recent political events!
GS650G says:
I would have two safes full of bricks and scrap metal as decoys just for shots and goggles.
You seem to presume unlimited space, and unlimited funds, with which to install your wishlist. Sure, if you own 5 acres, and you’re a multimillionaire, you can probably do this. On the other hand, if you’re opening a gunshop in an existing building that occupies a downtown lot, or even a double lot, you’ll learn quickly that things don’t all go your way.
Besides which, you’re looking a huge labor costs, setting up your store every day for business, then carting all that expensive inventory back into you bank vault at the end of business.
“You seem to presume unlimited space, and unlimited funds, with which to install your wishlist.”
Think you missed the joke.
Because of the post later of the reasoning that people “don’t grab women off the street and use them in a robbery” (you will have to read others posts below to see it) I send you these answers: 1 – “I” should not have to spend “excessive” revenue to have “unreasonable” security measures to entice YOU to follow the law! And 2. Why don’t we “chain” vehicles when not being used, to “slow” their ability to be acquired and used for crime!? See the true issue now?
“See the true issue now?”
Nope.
1) Not talking about individual storage (a whole ‘nuther discussion).
2) Do gun store owners not have a significant responsibility to prevent theft of firearms, the purpose of the theft to be proliferating crime with firearms?
3) Vehicles are not tied down because vehicle homicides are not really a thing.
4) Arguing that gun store owners shouldn’t have to spend extraordinary amounts to make me follow the law begs the question: “How much is a reasonable expense?”
Note: I do not have a per-conceived notion of how much theft prevention security a gun store owner owes the public, or the insurance company, or whomever. Simply asked a question to elicit information and observation. Cheers.
There is literally no way to lock up a gun that can’t be defeated with just a little time and the proper tools. Even the most expensive gun safe can be opened in seconds with one of those gas powered circular saws. Here’s a video of doing it just with an electric circular saw.
At the end of the day gun safes are just security theater.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1Ecd7Oyv3Q
Because my gun store is in a strip mall and I can either have space for product to sell or I can have a safe in the back room to keep them in, but not both. I’ve got bars on the windows and reinforced doors and locking display cases (with reinforced-but-still glass). Now I’ve got a dozen cameras and every other thing mandated that I have. If the government said I had to move all the product back and forth every day to a secure location, then I’d be taking the guns out of the secured store, into a van or truck, and driving them around to unload them somewhere else. That seem like a safer option? Seems like a recipe me for my employees getting ambushed.
Easier to close up shop and get a job managing a McDonalds, and a lot less hassle from people telling me how to do my business. You want it your way, go to BK.
“If the government said I had to move all the product back and forth every day…”
Whoa, ho there. No government involvement. None. Not. Nada. If government gets more involved, no one would be able to sell anything because there would be unending shortages.
“Unless you’re installing a bank vault to keep them in, they’re no safer locked in a safe than being locked in a secure building.”
Thinking glass doors and storefronts with bent steel bars do not qualify as “secure”. Also thinking it tough to haul large safes out the access doors in “the back room.” Not remembering too many jewelry stores leaving the goodies on display when the shop closes.
There ya go. Handguns in a safe, long guns chained or barred to the racks.
My safe weighs just under 900 lbs empty. It’s bolted to the floor and wall. Not all safes are built like storage lockers (yes, you, Stack-On.) Make the investment.
Your safe is for people who can afford one. My Stack On can be bolted to a floor or a wall. My choice.
Having civil rights should never cost, $$$, a citizen anything. The 2A is not for just rich people.
My Stack On is quite effective at keeping the firearms away from the children. Why, it’s almost like it does the exact job I intended it to do!
btw
There are plenty of videos of trucks ripping a safe right out buildings.
“There are plenty of videos of trucks ripping a safe right out buildings.”
Not sure those count as smash and grab. More like somebody knew something, and planned the heist?
Jim, will your safe hold the inventory of your local gun store?
@Larry
I’ve offered the vacant space in my safe to my favorite LGS…for some odd legal reasons they haven’t taken me up on the offer…I even offered to only store their “used” or “trade in” firearms (with the idea that I could periodically function test them for safety).
Jim Shockey of the Outdoor Network had his gun safe take out of his home. The empty safe was found three weeks latter. He is still hoping the guns that were inside will be found.
Your guns are only safe with a 24/7 armed guard around them. So do what you can afford to do. To keep your property secured.
Locked in a vault?
My grandfather was a partner in a bank in our village back around 1930.
The bank, a very small village financial institution, had cash on hand. The partners prudently maintained a vault in their bank to make a reasonable effort to protect the depositors’ money from burglary. OK, it wasn’t the best vault money could buy; not the great quality vault that a big-city bank could afford. It was just a decent vault. Something a gun shop might consider stretching to buy to protect its inventory.
Did the vault work? Nope. One night burglars broke into the bank and dynamited the vault door. Blew the door off its hinges. Same thing could happen if a gun shop invested in a reasonable vault for its inventory.
(Did the burglars get away with any cash? Nope. As a back-up, the bank maintained a glass jug of mustard oil behind the vault door. When the door blew the jug broke and the mustard oil vaporized to mustard gas. The burglars fled without a dime. Gun shop owners could consider this approach. Oh, but that would jeopardize the health of burglars; a consequence that wouldn’t be PC. Never mind.)
At the last store I managed the majority of firearms were kept in safes in back- all the time. There were several hundred firearms stored this way.
In the showroom there were approximately 100 handguns on display in glass cases, and approximately 50 long guns displayed on hooks on the wall behind the counter.
At night all safes were locked (with the cash drawer inside), but all display guns were left out- the glass cases didn’t even have the capability of being locked.
The showroom was, however, ringed with razor wire at closing each night.
There was only one break-in event in the four years I was there. I lived closest, so I responded first to the burglar alarm. I discovered two glass cases with their tops smashed out, five handguns missing, and a whole lot of blood (it looked like the dancefloor after Jack The Ripper had left the disco).
All five handguns were recovered when the perpetrator was arrested- he was identified from the bloody fingerprints found on the smashed (unlocked) glass cases. He had disfiguring hand and leg wounds from the razor wire.
It was an unfortunate event for the business- yet somewhat satisfying considering the outcome.
“The showroom was, however, ringed with razor wire at closing each night.”
Now, thas whut I’m talkin’ ’bout.
A lot of them do.
…as do a lot of women wear high-cut, collared shirts and long, loose-fitting pants; so that bad men are less likely to get all rapey when they see them.
Let me know when the women in your life all dress like the betrothed property of a misogynist Saudi kiddie-diddler, and I’ll go have a talk with the gun dealers in my life and see if I can’t get them to come around to the superiority of your wisdom.
Your analogy is fatally flawed. No one grabs a woman off the streets (no matter how she is dressed), and hauls her down the street to use her as a weapon to rob a gas station.
Tactical note: You see firearms sitting behind flimsy glass, you know if you break in you can get a gun. Grab a woman off the street, and you takes your chances.
That woman on the street could be a trans former linebacker.
“That woman on the street could be a trans former linebacker.”
Hence, taking chances.
“Do we dare go back to talking about why gun store owners do not lock up their inventory after close of the business day?”
Allow me to give the Pawn and Gun shop answer –
Repeated handling of the guns dings them up and lowers their value.
1 year in a display case is over 300 times the gun is taken out of the safe, placed in the display case, removed at the end of the day, and put back in the safe.
That dings them up. The same goes, but even worse, for the long guns in display racks.
Only one of the shops I worked for in years past left their guns out, and they eventually got hit.
That’s *why* it’s done. Locking them up reduces their value over time. I have seen a pawn shop use custom stackable trays for their guns, but they were the exception. They also had to factor the not-small costs of a secure safe, bolted down with grade-8 bolts, and a glass re-locker mechanism…
I understand your observations, yet…
Moving high value pieces of jewelry each night doesn’t result in dings and scratches?
I don’t think the jewelry store moves all of it’s merchandise into and out of a safe every day. Probably ONLY the high value stuff.
More, I doubt they move one piece at a time. Trays and display cases probably hold a couple dozen or more items, so just pick up the tray or case, and move it. Costume jewelry will stay parked on whatever display racks.
Again, it’s a lot of work to move a gun store’s inventory in and out of secure storage.
“Again, it’s a lot of work to move a gun store’s inventory in and out of secure storage.”
Am certain that is true.
At Jewry store markups, the product is not what they are selling. Jewry stores insure for 25% of list price, a burglary makes them money with their insurance company on a payout. There are enough underwriters for retail the scam has gone on for 50+ years.
The markup is on the order of 85% over wholesale for the entire inventory, and 95% for everything under 500 bucks. The typical jewry store puts 95% of thier inventory in a filing cabinet with a bar. 5% are items so expensive the insurance company is going to want to see POs.
Good info on the jewelry business. Have known for a long time that diamonds are as plentiful as Port Costa parking lot rocks. Also interesting that diamond producers can get around restraint-of-trade laws.
Not to mention paying employees to pack and unpack the inventory every day.
“Not to mention paying employees to pack and unpack the inventory every day.”
Employees gotta do something when on the clock. The “what” really doesn’t matter, right?
Before running my current company, I worked in two different gun shops. The main reasons you don’t lock every gun up are time, and secure storage space. It could take HOURS, every morning and every evening, to move your firearms from the safe(s) to shelves, and vice versa. Also, how many safes do you need to store 300, 500… 800 firearms? A LOT of them. Where do you put them? Also – cost. It’s much easier, and more cost effective, to “harden” the building itself, and install a robust security and surveillance system. And… it works.
“It’s much easier, and more cost effective, to “harden” the building itself, and install a robust security and surveillance system.”
Not being “in the industry”, am not schooled in the tribal practices. However, glass fronts, and lighweight bars and frames do not seem to rise to the level of hardening. Also not understanding that if a gun store has too many firearms to secure in interior spaces (i.e. take the guns out of sight at night), isn’t that an indication the inventory is too valuable to be left sitting in plain view when the store is closed? It may just be that I am so naive as to believe gun store owners want to do everything they can to prevent their inventory being stolen and used in subsequent crimes. Maybe follow-on crime and damage is just not a consideration, or the losses are considered simply a cost of doing business.
If “hardening” the store is a satisfactory solution, how are smash and grab robberies successful? I don’t live in a megaplex, so the few gun stores here are storefronts (except the gun store at the firing range). The inventory at the range must be less robust than I perceive, because the firearms are stored out of sight at night. Did read of one shooting range/gunstore where the facility is encased behind roll down steel screens on the outside. Not impenetrable, but requires more tools, and more time to get to the doors and windows, and through the doors and windows, and then into the secure interior spaces. The intent was to stop “smash and grab”, and require thieves to spend a significant amount of time overcoming the defenses even before obtaining entry to the sales floor.
‘Preciate your insight and experience.
Yeah, it’s the.victim’s fault.
“Yeah, it’s the.victim’s fault.”
Not discussing “fault”. Prudence is the issue.
But, when does a theft become the victim’s fault? Leaving doors open without regard to the possibility of theft? Locking the doors, but only using something from Walmart? Where does the victim lose responsible for securing themselves and their property, and become “just unlucky”.
Behind a locked door on private property? There ya go.
The rest is just extra safety. What you are asking is for more requirements to justify an insurance claim, which is ridiculous. When you vehicle is broken into, did you lock the door? Okay then. Doesn’t matter if they took a penny, or the entire interior of the vehicle for parts. It’s not their property.
“What you are asking is for more requirements to justify an insurance claim…”
Not actually. If my gun store were sufficiently secure to seriously reduce the risk of break-in and theft (say 95% assured?), I wouldn’t need insurance, or not much anyway.
No, you are blaming the victim, just indirectly.
So in an ideal world the gun store – or any store – wouldn’t need locks on the door because people wouldn’t steal. Some people are bad, here in the real world, so the store owner needs to make a judgment call of how much security, of what types, to put into place. Cost in money, time, labor, etc. all need to fold in to that decision.
It’s the store owner’s call, not yours, not mine.
If the store is breached and inventory is stolen, then it’s always really easy to say the store owner should have done more. You can always say that this measure or that could have prevented it. Always. Hindsight is wonderful, isn’t it? And at the same time you could also point out any measures the store owner took that didn’t matter. What a wasteful owner, spending money on things that – in this particular case – didn’t help.
But let’s start the who’s-at-fault discussion with the thrives who shouldn’t have been out stealing in the first place. Those are what we call “the bad guys.”
@No one of Consequence
^1
“No, you are blaming the victim, just indirectly. ”
Not so. I don’t personally care about blame; you make choices and you alone are responsible for the outcome. No one has a human, civil and/or natural right to walk through the world undisturbed. I am simply asking about the mitigation of risk; what is enough?
Now, I have one inch thick decorative bars on every window in the house. Even have bars on the front and back doors. We have security company signs (eng and span) at every external corner, front and back doors (all of which punished our savings severely). But, among other deficiencies, we do not have heavy concrete bollards positioned around the exterior to prevent someone driving a truck through the walls. We accept that the HOA mafia will not allow a mini-Maginot Line to be built on the property.
If our defenses are breached, we accept responsibility for not being better prepared. However, we do not expect any sympathy from anyone, should our measures fail. Our estimate of the level of risk is that the security measures are sufficient for the vast majority of types of attack we could face. If we fail, you are free to blame the victim; doesn’t matter, doesn’t change anything.
Sam, are you planning to open your gun store at any time, for instance to conduct business? Because if so you’d better have insurance, all the doodads you think would be swell won’t even slow down the guys who come through the open door during business hours, shoot all your employees and steal your inventory. You can’t just ignore insurance when your entire net worth is inside the store. Flip answers about not needing insurance add little to the conversation.
“…all the doodads you think would be swell won’t even slow down the guys who come through the open door during business hours, shoot all your employees and steal your inventory. ”
IIRC, the issue is after hours security, not the risks of operating a store during business hours. Theoretically, if I have perfect security (whatever that is), I wouldn’t need to have insurance at all.
The matter at hand is just what is prudent and sufficient security to deter after hours robbery and theft? I have no position on any of it. However, there have been some useful comments about levels of security.
Now, about “blaming the victim”…what is the appropriate level of responsibility, beyond which a person/business owner has only themselves to blame for outcomes? We all agree that the world is not benign. In a troubled world when does a person wittingly acquire blame for actions? EX: a person intentionally walks into a known gang neighborhood, at night, wearing expensive clothes and jewelry, unarmed. If that person is attacked and injured, who is to blame? Keep in mind that no one has a civil, human and natural right to walk freely wherever, whenever.
So, would you have all gun stores and store owners follow your guidelines? Would you prefer they were mandatory, so they had no choice in the matter?
Small gun shops with limited inventory and small profit margins can’t afford this type of security. You’d rather see them out of business?
“So, would you have all gun stores and store owners follow your guidelines?”
Nope. No encouraging anything, simply asking the questions. Don’t over-read things.
I have no opinion about what is a proper amount of theft prevention. The interest is in learning from others. Will the learning be useful? Not to me, but knowledge is never wasted.
Sure. If we want to place the blame on the victims.
We could also say “don’t have nice shit and people won’t rob you”.
Yeah……we can do that. Or just make it illegal to break into places and rob them. That’ll fix it.
“Or just make it illegal to break into places and rob them. That’ll fix it.”
Seems to have worked well, so far.
Can’t slip anything past you.
“Can’t slip anything past you.”
That’s easy: just make sense, I can’t deal with sensible.
Sam I understand what you mean about gun safes and security. Most FFL/gun stores are small business owners, with limited capital. They do lock up what they can. They do install steel posts and concrete deadman to stop vehicles. They have camera and alarms. They have insurance on their inventory. But there is only so much you can do to protect yourself. Most criminals are lazy, and that’s the ones you stop. The professional thieves are gonna get into some guns if they want. It’s easier to buy guns than steal them. If the kids in the above story got 50 guns, they would of got caught eventually from selling them to other criminals who rolled over on them to get off on their crime I’m thinking. These kids didnt think their crime out very good. Otherwise they wouldn’t of tried the heist when the owner was still there. Locks and safes are to stop thieves of convenience robberies.
“But there is only so much you can do to protect yourself. Most criminals are lazy, and that’s the ones you stop. ”
Agree, there are limits. But what lies between irresponsibility/negligence, and reasonable? Or can such a determination actually be made? Case-by-case even?
As a regular patron of this store, he has spent a small fortune hardening the building and installing security mesaures. Most long guns are locked to the walls and some locked to display carosels, most pistols are not in those cheapy glass cases, windows barred, ect. I personally don’t know if he does or doesn’t lock them up at night, and the article didn’t say so this thread responses tend to remind me of what they say about what happens when you ass u me something. Thieves are thieves, if they want in they’ll get in. Im glad Preston was there and is safe. This kind of thing will only increase in the days to come. Peoria is really bad these days, we call it little Shitcago around here. Its been months since I left my job in the burg, maybe I’ll go help him legally elevate some of his inventory burden and just say hi! Everyone stay safe out there, tough times ahead.
You say ‘vehicle homicides aren’t really a thing’?!
Man, you hit the wrong of the nail with that swing. They certainly ARE a thing. And to answer your original question: No. A citizen business owner is not required to take ridiculous steps to prevent criminals from doing what criminals do. Locking the door to the place is fine.
I do however, believe it should he legal to booby trap the place.
But, but, what about the CHILDREN??!!
“but, what about the CHILDREN??!!”
Good point.
“You say ‘vehicle homicides aren’t really a thing’?!…They certainly ARE a thing. ”
Compare the number of stolen guns used in homicides to the number of stolen vehicles used to commit homicide. Something isn’t “a thing” just because they do happen; volume of events makes something “a thing”.
I agree about surprised you mention.
Do we dare to stop blaming victims and not the criminals?
“Do we dare to stop blaming victims and not the criminals?”
Under your thinking, no one should be required to take any measure of security because there shouldn’t be criminals.
Seriously, asking about sufficiency of security measures is more about property protection (and avoiding downstream consequences) than “blaming” anyone. If a person, or business owner wants to leave their possessions and inventory in Condition White, fine; just don’t complain when you are disadvantaged. Simply fill out the police report, and clean up the mess.
Discussing security measures is nothing more than identifying the threat, and taking measures to eliminate or mitigate.
Does it matter in the long run? A thief is a thief. Perhaps the owner (still being there) was in the process or before the process of putting away the weapons. But really who cares? Attempted robbery is still attempted robbery. Or grand larceny or whatever the actual legal term is. The thieves are still thieves…
“The thieves are still thieves…”
Good to know, but heartbreaking to learn that because “thieves are thieves”, none of my security concerns are valid. Can’t understand why anyone needs too carry a gun; stuff just happens anyway. And you might not succeed in defense, and you might hurt yourself, and you might anger the attacker more, and…….well, golly gee.
> Do we dare go back to talking about why gun store owners do not lock up their inventory after close of the business day? If the guns are not on shelves, seems less likely people would drive vehicles through the doors/windows to get at the guns.
Ah yes… the old “If she didn’t want to be raped she should not have worn that revealing dress” defense.
“Ah yes… the old “If she didn’t want to be raped she should not have worn that revealing dress” defense.”
While that is true….
Simple, but irrelevant analogy. Asking about security measures for gun stores is not blaming anyone. But is it queer that we love blaming gun owners who suffer self-induced gunshot wounds (after all, guns should be so safe no one can harm themselves), but asking what constitutes reasonable, prudent, responsible security measures for gun stores suddenly becomes “blaming the victim”.
If you walk out your front door, and get killed, by any means, yes, you are at fault for leaving your residence. No one forced you out the door, that was a personal decision. You cudda stayed indoors, yes? Howz that for blaming?
Guess we should all have to lock up our TV’s , jewelry, wallet, etc., etc., etc. every night or it’s our fault some thieving no account rips you off ? It may be a prudent thing, but the only person reponsible for theft is the thief !!
“…but the only person reponsible for theft is the thief !!”
The person making it easy gets a pass?
I worked at the gun counter at a Sports Authority in the mid 90’s. At the end of the aisle behind the gun counter was a walk-in security closet with a heavy-duty steel door. Reserve stock was kept there, and all the handguns in the glass display cabinets went into padded cases and were loaded into a shopping cart at the end of the day. The cart was wheeled into the locked room. In the morning we got it out and put the handguns back in the glass cases. It took two of us less than 10 minutes to do.
The long guns were kept in the wall rack behind the counter overnight and had cheap locks on them, so several got stolen when a backdoor smash-and-grab happened at that store a few years after I left. The thieves didn’t get any handguns though, as they failed to gain entry to the secure gun room.
“The thieves didn’t get any handguns though, as they failed to gain entry to the secure gun room.”
Thanks for the insight.
Thanks for proving you are a 100% complete frigging moron.
“Thanks for proving you are a 100% complete frigging moron.”
Someone asks a question. Someone else gives the response above. Who’s the moron?
I am willing to bet that his inventory was locked up. You evidently know nothing about a gun store. Or the cost of weapons. Also I am thinking you’ve never fired or even held a weapon in your hands. Lastly why are you defending criminals who were out to commit theft of another persons property?
“Lastly why are you defending criminals…. ?”
Why can you not read? Inquiry is a defense of nothing, no one.
Your educators owe you a refund.
The perp looks like Stacy Abrams. A relative, perhaps?
They say everyone has a twin somewhere.
Thankfully,for all our eyes it wasn’t mayor beetlejuice’s twin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPKwTPBea-U
And this will be added to be one of the tragic gun deaths in America that Biden plans to stop by outlawing assault weapons. China Joe, there were no assault weapons used, as in most murders.
Correction: it wasn’t a murder on behalf of the citizen. THAT was self defense. Also known as NOT MURDER. His accomplices however, are all guilty of murder if they were knowingly participating in a burglary.
Jeff didn’t say “murder,” he said “tragic gun deaths,” using sarcasm.
Those gun death numbers don’t discriminate between murder, homicide, accidental, and suicide.
Probably a covid death too
felony murder? that charge won’t go anywhere. no accomplice of the accused committed murder in the commission of the crime. that da is really brain dead.
They were all three committing the felony burglary. Owner defended himself and property which resulted in the death of a participant. Because they all committed the burglary they are on the hook for the consequences. Texas has similar laws. Not every state does. Lucky for them the left got rid of the death penalty in illinois.
The DA would never charge it if he didn’t have the authority. Let’s give him a littlencredit for knowing what he can charge.
The “left” did NOT get rid of the death penalty in ILL. Gov.George Ryan from my hometown of Kankakee did. A Republitard RINO. Then he went to prison…little difference in ILLinoyed between D & R. So it’s up to ordinary citizens to “execute” judgement!
At least they send your corrupt Politian’s to prison. In California they normally are allowed to walk around until they die of natural causes.
I always thought he did that so the criminals in prison would be nice to him for the favor he did for them.
“no accomplice of the accused committed murder in the commission of the crime. that da is really brain dead.”
You might want to reconsider that statement. IIRC, if one is involved in a felony, to any degree, and someone dies, even if one did not directly contribute to that death, the charge of “felony murder” can apply. So, a perp is killed robbing someone, the getaway driver is considered a direct participant in the death of the perp; felony murder.
“if one is involved in a felony, to any degree, and someone dies, even if one did not directly contribute to that death, the charge of “felony murder” can apply.“
It will be rather interesting to see the charges accumulate for the violent insurrectionists who attacked our nations capital.
Federal law provides for the death penalty for those involved in the murder of a police officer as well.
Will the Trump supporters cry when they push the needle in… Who knows, but we’ll all be watching.
Yup, just after all the violent left-wing insurrectionests that have burned, looted and murdered all through 2020 in many cities and locales have been charged for their crimes…
Oh, I must’ve missed where BLM protesters attacked the seat of our government during a joint session of Congress, as they deliberated our presidential election.
It is interesting that you don’t understand the difference between a simple protest where pissed off people burn a few stores, break windows and otherwise expressed their discontent as opposed to an intentional violent insurrection, planned and executed with the stated goal of disrupting our constitutionally directed election deliberations by the sitting United States Congress.
Even Donald Trump has disowned his supporters who attacked our government, of course it was he who whipped them into a frenzy moments before their attack.
You have sown the wind, you will reap the whirlwind. Enjoy!
“…seed of our government…” bad mental image considering how many Democrats have been arrested or lost their elected positions through sex crimes. Possibly you meant *seat* of our government?
You really should check the definition of “Insurrection”. What your AntiFa agitators conducted over the last year(s) is the very essence of the definition.
The difference you mention is present in your mind only…I look at the facts of the crime(s) and go from there.
Just out of curiosity, Miner, what makes you think it was NOT BLM that invaded the Capitol? I would bet money that BLM and/or antifa were on the front lines wearing MAGA hats and carrying Trump flags, those people acted exactly NOTHING like the Trump supporters we’ve seen for years, and EXACTLY like the rioters and looters constantly in the news throughout 2020. We can easily determine which is the case, as if they are BLM/Antifa the FBI will mysteriously be unable to identify them.
GS is correct. The felony murder rule allows ANY participant in the commission of a felony to be charged with first degree murder in the event ANYONE, victim, bystander, or perpetrator, dies during the commission of the felonious act. The case they used in law school when I was there many years ago was the case of the getaway driver who never entered the corner store but waited in the car. One of the gunmen was shot and killed by the store owner. The remaining gunman plead out prior to trail and got 20 years. The driver took his chances at trial and ended up with a murder conviction and a life sentence. The California Supreme Court affirmed the conviction of murder and the sentence. Really sucked for him.
A similar fate awaits these delinquents in Peoria. If they are really lucky (unlikely) they will be tried as juveniles.
A similar fate awaits the insurrectionists in Washington DC.
I see ur back from DC. Did u have a good time?
As it turns out, I really didn’t need to go to Washington DC to experience the joy and thrill of thugs attempting a violent overthrow of our electoral process.
It seems the revolution was televised, by the perpetrators themselves, as it turns out, much to their dismay.
Book ‘em, Dano!
50,000+ Trump supporters, peaceful as usual, and 1,000 anarchists, and you think you have it all worked out, huh? How to spin it to make yourself appear something besides a doofus?
It flies in Arizona
You might want to check up on the laws in pretty much all 50 states. Because that’s exactly how it works.
“that charge won’t go anywhere” You must be new to the world. Welcome!
It’s known as the felony murder rule. If there is a felony being committed and someone dies during the commission of the felony all of the perpetrators may be charged with murder. It was in the English common law and was adopted into the law of most of the states
Is that Obama’s son? Kamala’s son? Oprah’s?
He’s somebody’s son…and they are probably not very proud at this point. Or…maybe they are…who knows?
They are looking for a way to sue the gun shop owner right now. When these shitheels get popped they always try to cash in.
“He was a good boy an he dn even have no gun. He wa’nt gonna hurt no body, and that gun store owner had no right to shoot him. Shoulda shot him in the laig or sumpin, not kilt him!
Sorry, I watch too many news/crime shows. The script is always the same.)
….and you wonder why your wife, kids and the dog all left you.
Mark, it seems you were correct!
Many of the insurrectionists in Washington DC are already issuing statements attempting to escape responsibility for their upcoming sedition and felony murder charges:
“I want to assure you all that I did not have any negative interactions with law enforcement, nor did I participate in any destruction that may have occurred. I was simply there as an independent member of the media to film history.”
Of course, they were kind of working against themselves with all the videos and live streaming but violent thugs crave attention.
Sounds familiar,…We are talking about AntiFa.. aren’t we?
AnTifa has never attacked the capital of the United States of America, while both houses of Congress were in joint session considering the electoral college votes, with the express purpose of disrupting our governmental process.
The proud boys, the 3% or’s, the Boogaloo’s, all are fascist invaders who attempted a coup by disrupting the constitutional electoral process.
I predict President Biden’s justice department will be unrelenting in rooting out these violent insurrectionists and bringing them before the bar of justice.
“Never”? You mean until Tuesday?
“Round up the usual suspects”
– Captain Renault
“Round up the usual suspects”
– Captain Renault
“I’m shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!”
– IBID
@Sam I Am
…as he collects his winnings..
One of my favorite movies of all time! Great actors, great lines and great cinematography.
“One of my favorite movies of all time! Great actors, great lines and great cinematography.”
Have often read that the movie was actually shot in sequence, with the actors having only enough script for the next day’s shooting, just so the actors would not know outcomes, and add uncertainty to their future, just as the characters would not know.
Also, several of the extras were actual refugees from Nazis, including the girl with the guitar.
My favorite anecdote is that, reportedly, years later, people shopped the script under the title, “Everyone Comes to Rick’s” and were turned down time and again.
You missed the part that’s the most fun, the film was made and released before the war ended, when the outcome was still in doubt. Watching the key scenes with that in mind gives an entirely new and distinctly frightening glow to the film.
Turn up the volume again:
Another one bites the dust! Hey Hey 😁
….Baaaaaahahahahaha. And I bet you call yourself a Christian.
Out of the doorway the bullets rip
Repeating to the sound of the beat
Another one bites the dust
Another one bites the dust
And another one gone and another one gone
Another one bites the dust yeah
Baaahaha?! Let me guess: you are a sheepherder. You people are an a bomination. What you do to those poor animals.
If you are referring to the taking of pleasure in the misfortune of others or not wishing harm on others neither of these are Christian tenants. They are both taken from pagan beliefs.
Kill em all, let God sort em out!
I bet he was just trying to scrape up money to enter med school.
He will make it to med school. As a dissection cadaver.
All invaders should be shot dead. At work. At home. In your car or at school.
And especially the violent insurrectionists who invaded the United States Capitol during a joint session of Congress.
“And especially…”
And? So now you agree with shooting trespassers? Where were you last year? Your comments were MIA.
Simple trespassing is a misdemeanor, certainly not worth summary execution.
But what occurred in Washington DC was an intentional attack on the United States government in an attempt to disrupt our constitutional electoral process.
Those attacks on the government buildings are not only covered under the sedition statute, but trumps executive order decreeing a 10 year prison sentence for those attack government buildings and monuments will apply.
Those attacks on the government buildings are not only covered under the sedition statute, but trumps executive order decreeing a 10 year prison sentence for those who attack government buildings and monuments will apply.
And because the Trump supporters murdered a capital police officer, they will all qualify for a ride on old Sparky under federal laws requiring the death penalty for the murder of police officers.
I can’t wait to watch the angry Viking ride the lightning, ready kilowatt!
Well you just said that you were okay with shooting them. Then, down below, you say that you’re against the death penalty, so which is it? Should they be shot or not?
Let’s put your sedition talk to the test. You sound pretty confidant. If you actually believe in what you’re saying, then these people will be locked up for sedition. If that happens, then I agree to never post here again. If it doesn’t happen, then you never post here again. How about it? Do you really believe in what you’re saying?
Dud, let me help you through this, item by item.
I am against a sentence of capital punishment, imposed by the government after a trial.
I am not opposed to the use of lethal force to prevent injury or death by an attacker.
I believe simple trespass is a misdemeanor, not a capital crime.
I believe a violent attack on our sitting government, intended to disrupt the constitutionally mandated election process by Congress, convened in joint session, is sedition.
Will these individuals be charged with sedition, who knows, that is up to the investigators and prosecutors who will be vigorously prosecuting this coup attempt.
“I am not opposed to the use of lethal force to prevent injury or death by an attacker.”
Okay, so now you’re saying that those people should have been shot in order to prevent injury of death? They ended up in the Capitol Building anyway. Were they on a rampage to hurt and kill people? No. They were walking around and posing for the camera. Really dangerous stuff. You’re full of sh!t, but you can’t ever admit it.
“Will these individuals be charged with sedition, who knows, that is up to the investigators and prosecutors who will be vigorously prosecuting this coup attempt.”
Why wouldn’t they charge them? Don’t you have confidence in the DOJ? You’re full of sh!t again. You know they wouldn’t be charged with sedition in a million years. Thank you for admitting that you don’t even believe what you keep posting.
It is really pathetic, all you can do is attack my position by mischaracterizing my statements.
You debate like a 10-year-old.
But I will keep on, I think I can detect a spark of intelligence in your posts, and I know there are many more reading this dialogue who may gain some insight that will prove valuable.
Not to mention the entertainment value of seeing so many conservatives accidentally externalize their Homo-erotic thoughts for all to see.
There should have been one or two dozen dead at the Capitol, that’s true, but the one shot dead was not one of them, that cop should go to prison. There should be video adequate to identify and capture the person who killed the cop, and that person should fry. Likewise dozens of people throughout the US for actions during the past year, or are we only going to prosecute conservatives?
“…or are we only going to prosecute conservatives?”
That seems to be the direction we’ve been going in for years now.
“That seems to be the direction we’ve been going in for years now.”
Looks like, going forward, conservatives won’t even have to do anything to warrant prosecution; just exist.
“that cop should go to prison“
So let’s examine your position, I think this will prove interesting.
The capital police officer was providing security for the legislators, the individual shot was forcefully attempting to enter a restricted area even though multiple police officers were giving her direct orders to cease her violent attack attempting to gain entry.
And for his actions, you believe the police officer should go to prison.
But what if President Donald Trump was in that room, and a group of angry protesters were violently attempting to enter that restricted area?
Your position is that the law enforcement officers should step aside and let the angry protesters enter the restricted area unhindered?
Fascinating.
It went swimmingly for those who matter, poorly for those who don’t matter.
I didn’t even need to look at the picture to know it was a Black democRat commiting the crime.
That’s why I love you, the real Deborah!
So, how many of you guys are trolls fir Bloomberg?
I applied for the job, but Bloomberg wanted trolls not possums. Prejudiced bastard .
Can possums sign NDAs? He likes ‘em to keep quiet but playing dead may be the next best thing.
Well I don’t agree with the we was robbing and he got shot so I’m charged with murder law. That ain’t right, he chose to go along. More government mind bending.
Yeah. It keeps criminal conspirators in prison where they belong. If you are going to commit a felony and someone gets killed, everyone that knowingly committed the initial felony is a murderer. Its not called government mind bending. And nobody asked if you agree.
Its the way it is.
I’m so glad to see your comment, I hope the federal prisons have enough room for all the insurrectionists who will be jailed as a result of their violent illegal invasion of the United States capital during a joint session of Congress
You seem downright giddy about this. Are you for law and order and holding criminals accountable or just jailing your political opponents?
“jailing your political opponents?“
Dud, you may have missed it, most on this list advocate for the killing of their political opponents. But not me, political dissent is the lifeblood of American freedom.
But that’s not what happened in Washington DC, we witnessed a violent Insurrection, planned and executed to disrupt the constitutionally directed electoral process.
That is the very definition of sedition, and I will advocate for a lengthy prison sentences for all involved.
Even in this case, I’m opposed to the death penalty, the government gets it wrong far too often.
Besides, I’m enjoying the thoughts of the angry Viking being introduced to his new cellmate, who may have a personal opinion about those who fly the flag of the confederacy in the halls of the United States Capitol.
Okay, so you’re only worried about sedition, not trespassing and vandalism. We’ll be waiting on that sedition charge. The death penalty for what occurred the other day would be absurd. That isn’t even on the table.
As for the confederate flag photo op, I highly doubt a Trump supporter would want those optics even if they were a supremacist. How would that help anything? So why would they do that?
I’m surprised you would ask why a Trump supporter would be flying a confederate flag, as we observed in the video and photographic evidence from the US capital.
In my experience, most Trump supporters are indeed racist, who make no bones about hating their fellow Americans with a different ethnic background.
And this isn’t simple vandalism we’re discussing, these aren’t store windows in the shopping district or spray paint on a police car.
These insurrectionist thugs were vandalizing the seat of the American government, rampaging through Statutory Hall, destroying valuable artifacts and treasures of the American nation.
These were thugs, looting through the offices of our elected representatives, pilfering desks and defacing art and effects of our nations treasured history.
This was an organized attempt to disrupt the constitutionally mandated electoral process in an attempt to unlawfully perpetuate the dictatorship of Donald Trump.
And because the fascist Trump supporters murdered a law enforcement or officer during the commission of their violent insurrection, many will indeed face the death penalty under federal law.
That’s not my decision, you conservatives are the champions of the death penalty. Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it
Your statement is at odds with your defense of the year-long rioting, looting, intimidation, destruction and deaths instigated by your black-clad insurrectionists. One sworn officer dies in the line of duty and you brand ALL the “mostly peaceful” protesters with a broad brush of deserving death, or, at the least, a very long prison sentence…sounds kind of racist. How discriminatory of you. Shouldn’t we await the results of the investigation and charge the actual person(s) directly responsible for the death?
It is the Left that has justified the lack of bail in serious crimes over the past year using a version of the following quote: “That it is better 100 guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer” – Ben Franklin (there are other versions of this uttered by various Jurists through the ages…ranging from 10, 20 up to the hundred).
To quote my departed Dad…”if it is good for the goose then it should be good for the gander”.
“…flying a confederate flag, as we observed in the video and photographic evidence from the US capital.”
There’s a picture of him holding a flag, so that proves it. Do you secretly work for the FBI? Let’s say he is a supremacist and a Trump supporter. How do you think that will help his cause? He was there for a photo op. It’s okay to ask questions instead of just defaulting to prejudice. That doesn’t mean that I’m ruling out the fact that he’s just some idiot. It’s best to keep an open mind about it instead of accepting narratives.
“In my experience, most Trump supporters are indeed racist, who make no bones about hating their fellow Americans with a different ethnic background.”
You’re an idiot. Half of the country isn’t racist. When I was younger, someone’s skin color wasn’t even a consideration. This big racial divide came about recently under Obama. It was engineered. I have to explain to my kids that it wasn’t always like this. Biden and Harris have now turned the Capitol Building riot into a racial issue when there wasn’t one. That is BEYOND irresponsible, which is no different than people like you calling Trump supporters racists.
“That’s not my decision, you conservatives are the champions of the death penalty.”
You assume to know me because you can’t see past your own prejudice. I’m not even for the death penalty. Try to see the individual for a change instead of seeing some caricature defined by your own prejudice. You don’t even get the irony of someone that is supposedly against racism. Why do you think people are racist? By the way, I personally know democrats that are FOR the death penalty.
“Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it”
And there you go again gleefully talking about your political opposition getting the death penalty.
“When I was younger, someone’s skin color wasn’t even a consideration. This big racial divide came about recently under Obama.“
I take back what I said about that spark of intelligence in your posts.
Miner, just because you obsess over skin color doesn’t mean that everyone does. I grew up post civil rights era. When we learned about what happened in the past, it was obvious how bad it was. There was a feeling of moving past that. That doesn’t mean that racism was eradicated. It never will be. I also personally witnessed second term Obama and the Left fan the flames of racism. They did that for political gain. Like I said, Joe and Kamala have picked up the torch to carry on the tradition. They’re injecting racism into the discussion of the Capitol Building mess when it has nothing to do with race.
“There was a feeling of moving past that.“
Could you entertain the possibility that your white person “feelings” are at odds with the real-world experiences of many of people of color?
Here’s a video produced by a good friend of mine, it may offer a slightly different perspective on the experiences of minorities in America.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iGClX7H4lUM
“Could you entertain the possibility that your white person “feelings” are at odds with the real-world experiences of many of people of color?”
First of all, stop reducing me to the color of my skin. That is literal racism. We’ll never be able to move past racism until everyone stops that. Of course I know that my own personal experiences are different from everyone else. I can tell you what I personally witnessed. The black people in my school were not treated any differently than anyone else. You were either cool or you weren’t. Skin color didn’t matter to us. I can’t speak for the entire country.
As far as the video goes, I feel for him. I believe in blind justice. Some of the things he listed are flat out illegal. Some of it obviously may need more context, but I’m not worried about that. I believe in holding everyone accountable, and that includes law enforcement and government officials.
I have something I’d like you to look at later and get your opinion. I’m not in a location where I can easily find it right now.
I would be happy to take a look at whatever you have no offer, I’ll try and watch for it here.
While I would like to divorce skin color from society’s considerations, unfortunately reality is at odds with the ideal.
The school I attended had no Black people, no brown people, no yellow people.
And there were 1 million abusive comments about people of color, people’s nationalities, (ever heard a Pollock joke?), and people’s sexual preference.
At the now consolidated high school in the county in which I reside, there are no Black people, no brown people, no yellow people.
And the abuse and ridicule continues, black folk know that they better not let the sun set on their ass in this county and they leave long before sundown.
“The school I attended had no Black people, no brown people, no yellow people.
And there were 1 million abusive comments about people of color…”
So now we’re acknowledging that we had different experiences growing up that shaped our worldview. I’d call that progress, and I’m not being factitious.
My best friend in the sixth grade didn’t speak English at home with his family. My very good friend in the seventh grade didn’t speak English at home with his mom. My very good friend in high school didn’t speak English at home with his family. Two out of three friends were white, but that only matters if you’re interested statistics.
*I attended a different school in 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th grades, so these were each new people that I met.
*facetious
I can tell you, here in rural West Virginia the racism is thick, as it is in nearby Kentucky, Virginia and Southern Ohio to a lesser extent.
Racism has always been here, Obama did not create Racism in America in 2009.
In the hills and hollers of West Virginia, Obama’s election outraged many people who somehow felt offended that a black man was President of the United States.
It seems having a black man with a brown name in the White House somehow eroded their citizenship.
And not just individual citizens, our political leaders are mostly conservative/fundamentalists as well.
You’ll soon see in the national news, a sitting West Virginia republican state delegate has been charged by the FBI for his role in the recent US capital insurrection. His name is Derrick Evans, and he is a rabid Trump supporter.
Or, if you follow this forum closely, you will know that he is a deep cover BLM/antifa agent provocateur, who infiltrated the good and wholesome patriotic Trump supporters in order to subvert their peaceful protest.
Watch out, he’s a master of disguise and a thorough a dangerous man!
“Racism has always been here, Obama did not create Racism in America in 2009.”
I never said he did. We’ve made a lot of progress as a country, but racism has always existed and it always will. You can’t force someone to love you. The government can’t force someone to not be a racist. It doesn’t matter whether there’s a democrat or republican in charge. What we CAN do is not pick at the scab. I noticed Obama and his administration doing that during his second term. If it was done during his first term, I didn’t notice.
I’ve since noticed that the racism rhetoric has gotten out of control. It is being used for the purpose of some to advance their political agenda. Just like it wouldn’t be right of me to call everyone in WV a racist, it’s wrong for people to casually refer to Trump voters as racists.
Miner, I can’t find the article I was looking for. It isn’t prioritized in searches. The moral of the story is that we would all be much happier if we removed skin color from the equation. MLK’s dream of people being judged by the content of their character was becoming a reality for more and more of us. As you pointed out, there will always be racists. I suspect that those areas were much less racist in the 2000’s than the 1950’s. Unfortunately, I feel like we’re regressing now. We’ll never move past it until we stop treating people differently based on the shade of their skin.
It begins with raising children. I hear idiotic SJW’s that aren’t even parents telling people they should raise their white kids to treat black people differently. My parents didn’t teach me that, so how did I learn how to treat a black person? See how ridiculous that sounds? You should only teach children how to treat people. Their shade of skin should have no bearing on it.
I never once even acknowledged any difference in skin tone with my children. Obviously people look different, and we use certain characteristics to describe people. Since my son had never heard anyone referred to as a black person, he came up with his own description. The first time he did this, I was watching an MMA fight, and I asked him who he thought would win? He said, “the dark skinned one.” When you think about it, dark skinned and light skinned makes more sense than black and white. I raise my kids to treat people with respect. Skin tone doesn’t matter.
Government Mind Bending: making someone else responsible for your decisions.
But what about BLM? When is the riot? Oops, I mean ‘peaceful protest’? Lol
Gun store in my hometown, west palm beach, was burgled during hurricane in ‘05.
Owners were watching on video feed, they were sheltering elsewhere, as perps leisurely destroyed reinforced steel back door.
Calls to cops , but it was at height of pretty severe danger.
They didn’t respond to what was a property crime.
There is too much animosity on the local firearms stores. Not all of them are created equal.
Yes, every gun or pawn shop should have bollards on the vehicle access sides to prevent the obvious. the display cabinets could have simple roll-down shutters that secure long guns. Quite certain a similar precaution could be taken with display cabinets.
But it is ludicrous to expect the staff to move all of the guns to and from a safe or vault every day. That amount of wear-and-tear on the guns would destroy their value quickly.
Don’t worry; he’ll be back on the streets soon thanks to the bail reform in Illinois.
Miner49 said: “In my experience, most Trump supporters are indeed racist, who make no bones about hating their fellow Americans with a different ethnic background.”
Typical liberal talking points nonsense response.
These liberals are not intelligent enough to come up with their own original insults.
Of course, as everyone knows, it is common practice by liberals to project their own failings unto others. So at least it is now obvious how you really feel about yourself.
It’s a real shame you’re such a racist….and why do you hate your fellow Americans..
Maybe unhappy childhood?? Or being picked on at school?? I actually feel sad for you, it must be hard to carry so much hate on a daily basis…
Do you think this shit just magically disappeared?
https://m.facebook.com/historicwaynecountywv/photos/a.591367894311059/989324074515437/?type=3
What’s that you say, that’s ancient history?
Oh wait, I guess it didn’t just magically disappear:
https://www.wlwt.com/amp/article/white-supremacist-says-kkk-group-recruiting-around-ohio/12094827
Oh, are you talking about the 100% pro-slavery democrat KKK?
The military arm of the democrat party?
Wow, that is quite amazing…..Did you miss history in school?
The more politically aware among us know that the political parties philosophies and policies have evolved over the decades.
For instants, I believe Abraham Lincoln was the greatest president this country has ever had and he was one of the first Republicans on the national scene.
I don’t let the fact that he was a Republican mar my reverence for his steady leadership in a time of great crisis.
Now, why don’t you ask some of the so-called ‘Republicans’ on this forum with their opinion of Abraham Lincoln is…
How thoughtful and convenient!
“Trump supporters erected gallows outside the US Capitol as MAGA mob rushed into the building to stop the confirmation of President-elect Joe Biden’s victory. The wooden structure had a rope attached to as Trump supporters gathered around it. Chaos ruled as armed, pro-Trump rioters stormed the Capitol, forcing House and Senate lawmakers into multi-hour lockdown.”
Yep, that’s how you can tell a peaceful protest, they erect gallows with hangman’s nooses. After all, many on this forum have advocated hanging Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer.
Wouldn’t it be ironic if those gallows, erected by the Trump insurrectionists, were employed by the justice department in a month or so once the sedition trials were concluded…
I hope the innocent shop owner isn’t treated like the innocent farmer in that area was treated the last time one of these worthless hoodlum teens decided to be a criminal.
We put all of our guns inside a specially-built vault room constructed out of cinderblocks that were filled with concrete and with reinforcing rod. Our building was a converted warehouse with three accessible doors. The front double glass door had 6″ drill pipe filled with concrete inserted into the concrete 6′ away and the parking lot prevented anyone from getting a running start at the door with a vehicle. The entry opened into a foyer with about a 10′ entryway into our large retail area. I had a steel roll-down security door installed inside the glass doors by about 3′ and the alarm panel was inside but before the steel door. Each side door/emergency exit was solid steel and had steel hooks attached to hold a security bar that was made from rectangular steel beams. We’d put those bars in place and then put a padlock through a hole in one of the hooks to keep the bar from being lifted out. The bars extended well beyond the doors and onto the concrete walls of the tilt-up concrete structure. It would have been easier to use a jackhammer through the side of the building than to remove one of those doors forcibly. I knew I couldn’t keep people out of the building if they wanted in badly enough. The goal was to keep them from getting inside, getting guns, and getting out, and for that we had a full alarm system including motion sensors, glass break sensors, door sensors, etc. that was automatically sent to the police first. I know we had been cased several times, but we had only one breakin attempt and they didn’t even get through. So, yes, it can be done but it takes planning and I spent $15K back in the early ’90s on these arrangements during a full building remodel. It’s a lot cheaper to just shoot burglars, repeatedly.
Interesting. Thanks for the report. Seems the gun store security measures are all over the place.
Thanx.
It raises my heart’s every time I hear that a store owner has successfully defended his/her property/livelihood. Hooray! Another bad guy down!
Many years ago MPLS MN they passed a law requiring gun stores lock up their handguns every night.
One evening just before closing a gang arrived at the store.
Even through the employees were armed the gang open fire killing the employees and then took all the guns.
Every action as a reaction.
Not only did they get the guns they killed two.
So requiring stores to lock up all their guns can lead to bad things also.
Here’s the story.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1992-07-08-9203010780-story.html
I know of at least three smash and grabs in the Phoenix Metro area over the past 20 years.
Two were in shops in strip malls. The gun shop was reasonably hardened, but the robbers broke into the adjacent shop then cut through the (unhardened) drywall between shops. In one case they actually cut between two shops.
One of those shops has moved into a stand-alone building. Block construction, razor wire on the roof, and owned by the owner. It’s obviously much easier to harden one’s shop when you own the building rather than renting space.
In another they just backed a stolen pickup through the front storefront, smashing out the glass and bars. Then used the newly installed light rail to depart, leaving the stolen pickup smashed up in the entry.
Mercy, People quit bitching about how you would lock up the owners guns before closing, BE Thankful that there are Weapon’s dealers still available for us to shop at. THANK you GUN STORES, But please once ammunition gets available again, bring the price back down to not a rape of us 2nd amendment advocates.
“But please once ammunition gets available again, bring the price back down to not a rape of us 2nd amendment advocates.”
Already told the LGS owner that I will take out a loan, and buy the first pallet of .22LR after “the panic”. Trying to organize others to do the same for larger calibers. What a party it would be !!
Yeah, I plan to sell it all at swap meets, flea markets, and on the corner, next to the official drug dealer.
*What* a dipshit. Enjoy prison, idiot.
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