The M16 rifle is more than just a tool of war—it’s a symbol of innovation, resilience and tactical supremacy. For more than 60 years, this rifle has played a pivotal role in shaping modern military conflicts, proving its worth on battlefields from Vietnam to the Middle East. In this article, we’ll dive into the history, evolution and lasting impact of the M16, revealing why it remains a cornerstone of military arsenals worldwide.
You’ll not only discover the origins and design advancements that set the M16 apart but also gain insight into its real-world performance from the perspective of a Marine Corps infantryman. Whether you’re a military enthusiast, a firearms collector or someone intrigued by how guns change the course of history, this article offers an in-depth exploration of a rifle that forever altered the landscape of modern warfare.
The Birth of a Legend: From AR-15 to M16
Working with Armalite in 1956, Eugene Stoner designed the AR-15, which later evolved into the M16. Initially, the M16 faced significant challenges in gaining acceptance within the U.S. military. The Army Material Command initially rejected it in favor of the M14, but an investigation found that the tests were biased. Despite this, the U.S. Air Force adopted the rifle in 1962, followed by the rest of the military.
However, the M16’s introduction to the Vietnam War was fraught with problems. Soldiers were incorrectly informed that the rifle didn’t need cleaning, and no cleaning kits were provided. The wrong propellant was also used in the 5.56mm ammunition, leading to reliability issues. Despite these early setbacks, the M16 quickly proved its worth on the battlefield, thanks to its lightweight design, accuracy and firepower.
A Rifle Built for Adaptability and Success
One of the M16’s greatest strengths is its adaptability. Since its original design, the rifle has undergone numerous upgrades, each improving its performance and versatility. The M16A2, introduced in the 1980s, brought key advancements, such as a heavier barrel for increased accuracy and durability. This version also included improved iron sights and firing modes, allowing soldiers to use semi-automatic and burst fire.
The M16A4, which followed in the late 1990s, introduced a modular rail system, allowing soldiers to attach optics, lasers and other accessories. These advancements made the rifle more customizable for various combat scenarios, ensuring it remained relevant in the ever-evolving landscape of modern warfare.
The M16’s modularity has stood out as a key feature throughout its lifespan. It was easily adapted into shorter, more compact versions like the M4 carbine and other variants used by special forces. These updates, including the ability to integrate advanced technologies, made the M16 one of the most flexible weapons in military service.
The M16’s Impact in Combat
The M16’s battlefield performance is one of the reasons it has remained a mainstay in the U.S. military for over six decades. Its use of the 5.56mm cartridge, which is lightweight yet highly effective, allowed soldiers to carry more ammunition, providing a distinct tactical advantage.
Furthermore, the M16’s direct impingement operating system contributed to its reliability, making it a go-to weapon in diverse environments, from the jungles of Vietnam to the deserts of the Middle East.
Another testament to its design is the rifle’s adaptability to different combat roles. For example, the Mk 12, a designated marksman’s rifle, was developed from the M16’s base design. Whether in standard infantry roles or specialized operations, the M16 has consistently delivered the firepower, accuracy and reliability required by modern soldiers.
My Experience with the M16-A2 in the Marine Corps
My introduction to the M16-A2 rifle took place at Marine Corps Recruit Depot, Parris Island, during the 13-week boot camp. Early training focused on mastering the weapon’s mechanics—disassembly, cleaning and reassembly—before we were allowed to engage in live fire exercises. As part of our nightly routine, we recited the Marine Rifle Creed, emphasizing our reliance on the rifle and its significance.
Qualifying with the M16-A2 was no easy task. We were required to engage targets at distances of 200, 300 and 500 yards, which was especially challenging using only iron sights. The front sight post would cover the target at that distance, forcing us to rely heavily on DOPE (Data on Previous Engagements) and trust in our training.
Following boot camp, I was issued the M16-A2 as a service rifle. I used that rifle almost every day of the week for training, weapons maintenance or inspections.
That rifle accompanied me on training exercises from the jungles of Okinawa to the Negev Desert in Israel and everywhere in between. No matter the environment, that rifle performed. Take care of your gear, and it will take care of you.
The enhancements in the A2 model, such as the improved barrel and iron sights, were crucial in ensuring we could hit targets consistently at long ranges. These experiences cemented the M16-A2 as a reliable and effective tool in my military career.
Controversies and Competitors: Why the M16 Endures
Over the years, multiple attempts have been made to replace the M16 with newer rifles. The U.S. military explored options such as the SCAR Mk 16, Stoner 63 and, more recently, the SIG Spear as part of the Next Generation Squad Weapon program.
While some of these rifles offered minor improvements, none have been able to fully replace the M16 due to the logistical challenges and cost implications of transitioning to an entirely new rifle system.
One of the most notable rivals to the M16 is the SCAR Mk 16, which performed well in tests but failed to surpass the M4—a shortened variant of the M16—used by U.S. forces. Even in special operations units, where soldiers could choose, the M4 was the preferred weapon. The consistent choice of the M4 over other rifles further highlights the M16’s enduring capabilities.
Evolution and Legacy: The End of an Era?
Although the M16 has served the U.S. military for decades, its gradual replacement has begun. The U.S. Marine Corps has started using the H&K M27 Infantry Automatic Rifle (IAR) for combat arms forces, while the Army has selected the SIG Spear as part of its modernization efforts. However, the M16 will continue to serve in support roles for the foreseeable future.
The M16’s influence on modern firearms cannot be overstated. Many of the design principles introduced by Stoner—modularity, accuracy and adaptability—are present in today’s cutting-edge rifles. Even as the military adopts new technology, the M16’s legacy lives on, both in its direct successors and in the wider development of military firearms.
Conclusion: A Rifle That Defined an Era
The M16 rifle is more than just a weapon; it symbolizes innovation and resilience. From its early struggles during the Vietnam War to its evolution into a highly modular and adaptable platform, the M16 has cemented its place in military history. Its longevity is a testament to its effective design and battlefield performance, proving time and again that it is a rifle built to last. As it slowly phases out of frontline service, its legacy will continue to influence future generations of firearms, both in the military and civilian worlds.
The M16 remains one of the most influential rifles ever made, and its impact will be felt for years to come.
From what I hear the M16/M4 variant reigns in the Ukraine war supplanting the AK. Even the Russian’s using it. My variant is safe & sound residing in a free state a few miles away awaiting renewed use. Trump/Vance 2024!
The people who wake up and go to bed hating on it will never change. As Yogi Berra said, “Anyone popular is bound to be disliked.”
SIG Spear = Monumental Waste of Taxpayer’s Money
Fixing what ain’t broke.
What IS Broke is our Treasury. US Federal Debt = $105,000 for every man, woman & child, PLUS another $35,000 each for unfunded Benefits, Pensions & Perks for the morons who have looted our treasury. 90% of Americans cannot even pay the Interest on their $140,000 obligation.
“What IS Broke is our Treasury. US Federal Debt“
You sure got that right
“Trump added twice as much to the national debt as Biden: Analysis
The Hill
BY TOBIAS BURNS 06/24/24 11:12 AM ET
The fiscal policies of the Trump administration added twice the amount to the national deficit as have President Biden’s, a new analysis has found.
Trump’s administration borrowed $8.4 trillion during the former president’s time in office, while Biden has borrowed $4.3 trillion, according to an analysis by the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget (CRFB), a Washington think tank.
Ignoring the pandemic relief measures enacted by both presidents, the proportion of debt addition still holds around 2-to-1, with former President Trump adding $4.8 trillion in non-pandemic-aid fiscal debt and Biden adding $2.2 trillion.“
Trump’s spending was CAUSED by Democrat-Chinese Covid19 Collusion to wreck the USA and bring down Trump. That spending belongs in the democrat column. You are utterly clueless. Regardless, WE ARE BROKE.
“Democrat-Chinese Covid19 Collusion to wreck the USA and bring down Trump“
You’re a little early, tinfoil Tuesday is the day after tomorrow
Bullshit. Never Trumpers. Beria Wannabes and Commiecrats are traitorous scum.
So how bad did it piss you off when Crooks missed?
Considering the shooter was a registered Republican from a Trump supporting family, its unlikely the Democrats had anything to do with the incident.
“Thomas Matthew Crooks Had Donald Trump Signs in His Yard—Neighbor
Newsweek
Published Jul 16, 2024 at 5:38 AM EDT
Updated Jul 16, 2024 at 10:13 AM EDT
A neighbor of the 20-year-old who tried to assassinate former President Donald Trump said there have been pro-Trump signs on display in the yard of his family’s home.
A neighbor in Bethel Park, the Pittsburgh suburb where Crooks lived, said they saw pro-Trump signs in the family’s yard as recently as a few months ago.
“There absolutely was MAGA-supporting signs for a while,” Kelly Little told WTAE-TV.”
My guess is he wanted to make a martyr out of Donald Trump, assuring the shooter’s notoriety and instigating the Civil War 2.0 so many right wingers are hoping for.
When we point out that you on the fascist left are trying to destroy our nation and actively pushing for a civil war is not us ‘hoping’ for a civil war.
Hahahahaha…
Pretty bad. huh?
“Thomas Matthew Crooks Had Donald Trump Signs in His Yard”
Gasp! A sign in a yard for Trump, while the kid donated to Joe Biden.
“Considering the shooter was a registered Republican from a Trump supporting family”
Seriously? Doesn’t mean squat. He could have registered republican just to please his family or to use as a ‘cover’ to blend in.
But considering he donated to donated money to a Democrat political action committee (Progressive Turnout Project)…
None of it means anything. What does mean something is he was another mentally ill person motivated by the mentally ill radical extremist left wing ideology. And here you are yet again gleefully expressing that mental illness by metaphorically dancing in the blood again.
minor49iq…It is election time and try hard not to let demoCrap make youself look like a sinking ship trying to turn bidenomics into some kind of newly discovered success story. Since the election was stolen in 2020 the inflation you and everyone else has paid has been used to fund illegal immigration, the green new deal and other money wasting looney self serving democRat poop that belongs in a toilet.
TRUMP/VANCE 2024.
What about racism Debbie? I’m perplexed
“try hard not to let demoCrap make youself look like a sinking ship“
A sinking ship?
Do you know Debbie, it’s the Trump campaign that was playing the Titanic theme at his rally.
And of course, Donald Trump was stealing it:
“Canadian singer Celine Dion on Saturday bashed former President Donald Trump for using her song “My Heart Will Go On” at his Montana campaign rally without her permission or endorsement.
“In no way is this use authorized, and Celine Dion does not endorse this or any similar use,” the singer’s management team said in a statement, which she posted to her X account.“
Breaking News! President Trump plays song at rally, TDS left-winger upset and has temper tantrum, TDS left-winger posts about TDS left-winger having temper tantrum – film at 11.
Miner49er, if you radical extremist left-wingers didn’t have each others TDS to feed on you would have nothing at all. So be thankful President Trump exists, he gives you radical extremist left-wingers the only thing you have to give you your delusional self proclaimed relevance for your delusion that he is the problem.
“Breaking News! President Trump plays song at rally“
Yep, Donald Trump played a song about a sinking ship at his rally, kind of a bad look I’d say.
And yep, Donald Trump‘s campaign was stealing the song, not paying for the privilege of utilizing someone else’s work, it’s par for the course with the NYC con-man.
Just like he lost in court (again) regarding stealing Isaac Hayes’ classic composition ‘Hold On, I’m Coming’.
“Federal judge hands Isaac Hayes’ estate an early win in lawsuit against Trump campaign over classic song played at rallies
MATT NAHAM SEP 4, 2024 8:59 AM“
Trump is a thief who steals other peoples’s work.
Oh look, TDS49er is back again.
The executive branch only executes the will of Congress and has no say so in the appropriation of funds.
“The executive branch only executes the will of Congress”
So they’ve abandoned that whole presidential veto thing, weird, I thought that was in the constitution…
And didn’t President Trump himself claim the constitution gave him the power to do whatever he wanted?
“Trump claimed Article 2 of the Constitution gives him the right to do ‘whatever I want as president,’ but that’s not true
John Haltiwanger Jul 23, 2019, 2:26 PM EDT
Speaking to a crowd of young conservatives at a Turning Point USA conference in the nation’s capital, Trump on Tuesday said, “Then I have an Article 2, where I have the right to do whatever I want as president.”
We’re talking fundamentals of weapons use, not Trump. JSTFU.
Larry, if the topic is limited to “fundamentals of weapons use” perhaps Hund shouldn’t have brought up the national debt.
Larry, welcome to the stupid of Miner49er.
Hes an admitted democrat voter and mentally ill radical extremist left winger with a severe case of TDS, and likes to metaphorically dance in the blood of the innocent (and would probably do it actually if he could while blaming it on Trump). He sees Trump in everything, is confirmation biased, doesn’t know what context means, and doesn’t know what actual research is, and a troll.
He’s probably going to be dead within a year, maybe by his own hand.
:Laughs in Obama:
“Trump added twice as much to the national debt as Biden:”
false.
In 2016 (Trump in office) the national debt was $19.573 trillion.
In 2019 (Trump in office) the national debt was $22.719 trillion.
In 2020 (after Biden took office) the national debt jumped to $27.748 trillion.
In 2021 (Biden in office and starts printing money we can’t afford) the national debt was $29.617 trillion.
In 2022 (Biden in office and still printing money we can’t afford) the national debt was $31.420 trillion.
In 2023 (Biden in office and still printing money we can’t afford) the national debt was $34.001 trillion.
In 2024 (Biden in office and still printing money we can’t afford) the national debt ballooned to nearly $35 trillion by the middle of 2024.
The national debt in 1930 was $16 billion.
Starting with the national debt after the revolutionary war (because we borrowed money to fight the war and get the country going) and going forward to include all past presidents, Biden has literally caused and overseen the largest national debt increase in U.S. history and more than a 33% increase in the debt-to-GDP ratio which is 47% greater than any other past administration and its caused decreased economic growth and increased prices and an actual inflation that has placed us in a run-away hyper-inflation status that Joe and Kamal says, basically, they are not going to stop (because they keep making it worse on purpose by their actions and plans). And now the U.S. national debt is so high that it’s greater than the annual economic output of the ENTIRE country for the first time in American presidential history. Now Joe and Kamala and Walz want to increase taxes across the board to pay for their increasing the debt and for building homes to address a ‘housing shortage crisis’ so ~20 million illegal immigrants, that entered the country across the Joe-Kamala intentionally insecure and open border, can have a home, plus get a ‘government check’ every month (actually its a debit card funding) plus cell phones and cars plus free health, all at the expense of the American tax payer while they continue to increase the national debt and drive us towards economic collapse.
There are definitely better weapons, but only marginally so, in ways that are niche or otherwise a compromise. If I were in a fixed position I would possibly have other choices, but for a gun I was lugging around it is a first choice.
I will say I have heard the 3 round burst causes varying trigger pulls in semi auto.
The original, what was when created designated the AR-15, design was a scaled down version of the AR-10, and was intended for the civilian market as a semi-auto ‘sporting’ rifle. It was actually created as a ‘platform’ rather than a definite rifle fixed rifle design. That AR-15 platform wasn’t actually created by Stoner as his rendition came after that scale down design. The original design scale down was by Jim Sullivan.
Later, Stoner took that and made modifications and design changes to the original civilian scale down design to suit military purposes thus creating a new design but still in the same design series cycle of Armalite at the time when the civilian version as created and was rifle design cycle 15 thus the AR-15 designation meaning ‘Armalite Rifle 15’. It unfortunately still carried the AR-15 designation not because it was a military only design but simply because it was done in the same design cycle as the original civilian design. Thus there were actually two different AR-15 designs, the Stoner design being derived from the civilian version design. So in realty, the AR-15 was actually originally intended to be and was designed as a civilian rifle originally intended to be marketed to the civilian market but was set aside after Stoner, who’s only interest at the time was in military rifles, convinced Armalite to try to capture the U.S. military market because they had started looking around for a new rifle. Armalite failed to capture the U.S. military market.
The Stoner rendition of the original civilian version design was what Colt got in the patent purchase, and what he became famous for. Colt took that and did redesign/changes and marketed their redesign to the military and it later became designated the M-16. Then Colt also had a civilian version as the original intent of the Ar-15 was intended but applied their TDP to it and marketed that to the commercial civilian market. But here again that unfortunate use of the AR-15 designation… part of the agreement with Colt to buy the patent was that the AR-15 designation would be carried forth by Colt and it became synonymous with the
designation ‘AR-15’ marketed to the civilian market and what Armalite got known for only because of the AR-15 designation being carried forth by the agreement. But Colt also made a big deal out of that their redesign for the military market was the M-16 (even though some of the early lowers used had AR-15 stamped on them), then saying their civilian version (that carried the AR-15 designation at the time because of the patent purchase agreement with Armalite) used the same TDP as the military M-16 – and in doing that screw-up that anti-gun have fed on ever since (things were different back then) the connection between the AR-15 and M-16 became ‘synonymous’ in perception in the market and public eye.
The original prototype of the original design, the civilian only design, was on display in a glass case at Armalite corp for years but its seen in that picture of Stoner above. That rifle on top is actually the prototype of the first and original AR-15 design, that original design being intended for the civilian market. Its the design for that from which Stoner did his rendition he became famous for and eventually through Colt became known as the M-16.
The Armalite company of today is not the Armalite company that produced the AR-15 originally as a civilian rifle. The ArmaLite company that created the original AR-15 as a civilian rifle was that founded in 1954 by the Fairchild Engine Corporation, ArmaLite. The Armalite company of today is owned by Strategic Armory Corps who purchased the company entity Armalite.
Sullivan has done video interviews, a few different ones. In a very early interview he goes over how Armalite wanted a civilian version of a rifle that had military styling and he set out to complete a scale down of the AR-10 for its military cosmetic styling as Armalite wanted to capture a growing niche of the civilian market that wanted rifles with military styling. I posted the link to this video once before here at TTAG, but have no idea where its at now.
This just so happen to coincide with Stoners desire for rifles for the military. Stoner had joined Armalite before Sullivan and had designed the original AR-10 rifle from which Sullivan was doing his scale down so this intrigued Stoner and he did his rendition and the civilian original design got shelved as Stoner had convinced Armalite to go after the U.S. military market instead. Armalite failed because to capture that market because they submitted two hand-built ‘production’ AR-10 rifles based on the fourth AR-10 prototype in the fall of 1956 to the United States Army’s Springfield Armory for testing, and they liked it but the AR-10’s submitted used an aluminum/steel composite barrel and during testing one of the barrels failed. Armalite replaced it with a conventional steel barrel, but the failure had sealed the fate of the rifle and as a result Armalite failed to capture the U.S. military market. Stoner completed his version of the original civilian design hoping to get back into the military market but by this time the company had suffered financial troubles and ended up selling the AR-10 and Stoners AR-15 version to Colt. Thus because of the AR-15 designation (with the original civilian design being shelved) Stoner is credited as the inventor of the AR-15 and in the sense that his design is a version derived from the civilian A-15 that got shelved he did ‘invent’ his design of the AR-15 and its that which has become known. But the original AR-15 design was a civilian semi-auto ‘sporting’ rifle.
In further video interviews Sullivan says that Stoner invented the AR-15, hes talking about that which got officially put forth as the one Colt bought which was Stoners version of the civilian AR-15 rifle as that’s the context of the interviewers questions.
“Family of AR-15 Inventor Eugene Stoner: He Didn’t Intend It for Civilians
The inventor’s surviving children and adult grandchildren spoke exclusively to MSNBC, commenting for the first time on their family’s uneasy legacy.
June 16, 2016, 7:19 AM EDT / Updated June 16, 2016, 2:24 PM EDT
By Tony Dokoupil
“Our father, Eugene Stoner, designed the AR-15 and subsequent M-16 as a military weapon to give our soldiers an advantage over the AK-47,” the Stoner family told NBC News late Wednesday. “He died long before any mass shootings occurred. But, we do think he would have been horrified and sickened as anyone, if not more by these events.”
The inventor’s surviving children and adult grandchildren spoke exclusively to NBC News by phone and email, commenting for the first time on their family’s uneasy legacy. They requested individual anonymity in order to speak freely about such a sensitive topic. They also stopped short of policy prescriptions or legal opinions.
But their comments add unprecedented context to their father’s creation, shedding new light on his intentions and adding firepower to the effort to ban weapons like the AR-15. The comments could also bolster a groundbreaking new lawsuit, which argues that the weapon is a tool of war — never intended for civilians.
Eugene Stoner would have agreed, his family said.
The ex-Marine and “avid sportsman, hunter and skeet shooter” never used his invention for sport. He also never kept it around the house for personal defense. In fact, he never even owned one.
And though he made millions from the design, his family said it was all from military sales.
“After many conversations with him, we feel his intent was that he designed it as a military rifle,” his family said, explaining that Stoner was “focused on making the most efficient and superior rifle possible for the military.”
monir49iq…You should let the Stoner family know that History Confirms Gun Control in any shape, matter or form is Rooted in Racism and Genocide. It takes one lowlife, self serving, perverted, sleazy, deranged mind to participate in such a filthy, diabolical agenda…Don’t ya think?
“Eugene Stoner, designed the AR-15
He designed HIS design, which was a version of the original AR-15 design which was a civilian rifle design that got shelved when Stoner started pushing Armalite to capture the U.S. military market (that eventually led to their doom). So in that sense he designed HIS AR-15 (his design version of the original civilian design) but the AR-15 was originally designed and intended for the civilian market as a ‘sporting’ rifle.
“never intended for civilians”
The AR-15 was originally intended for the civilian market. Stoners design was not the original AR-15 design. He took the civilian design and made a new design to make changes for the military market. its just coincidence that both the original civilian and Stoners version based on that original civilian design happened to have fallen in the same design cycle 15 sequence and both were designated AR-15 with the original civilian design coming first intending to be for the civilian market, then the civilian market version was shelved leaving Stoners version of the AR-15.
“focused on making the most efficient and superior rifle possible for the military.”
His interest was only in military rifles. That’s why he was intrigued with adapting the AR-15 civilian design. The original AR-15 design was a civilian rifle, it was ‘more’ platform ‘modular’ based and used different materials mixture that Stoner had not achieved with the AR-10 and it was adaptable for his interest of military use and that’s why his design version of the civilian version was military focused.
And thanks to the efforts of you and those you support it will not be long until there will be an AR style weapon in the hands of every person in the US.
You must be so proud to know that your life goal is so close at hand.
Wonder if the family donated all that blood money to charity. Not holding my breath.
Are any written diaries or letters to back up what you say?
“The inventor’s surviving children and adult grandchildren spoke exclusively to NBC News by phone and email, commenting for the first time on their family’s uneasy legacy“
So, hearsay evidence.
I actually spoke with Eugene Stoner at SHOT Show 1990 about the history of the AR-15. I recorded the conversation with his permission, back then we had tape. I still have those tapes and one day I will get around to releasing them. But I have not released them yet because of certain legal things because Stoner in the conversation mentioned certain names (which back then I wasn’t aware of the legal ramifications that could have so didn’t think anything of it). So I’m waiting until certain people to pass away before I release them and if they do not pass away before I do I have made sure they will be released after they pass away.
Back then I was was in college and had a ‘journalism’ type assignment in a course and the assignment was to be about ‘modern day military arms manufacturers’. Sure I could have gone the traditional route with researching available material. But the instructor challenged us to get ‘first hand’ information if we could for extra credit, and I could use the extra credit. So after failing to get people to talk to me by making phone calls and them saying “I’ll send you our company info”, I went to shot show 1990 thinking it a good place to talk to manufacturers, or set up interviews, about their role for the subject of ‘modern day military arms manufacturers’.
It just so happened that Stoner and C. Reed Knight at Knights Armament had designed a prototype pistol. Colt bought the production rights for the pistol and transformed it into (what became) the ‘Colt All American Model 2000’ pistol they introduced at Shot Show 1990.
It just so happens Stoner was at the show to help promote the ‘Colt All American Model 2000’ pistol. Knowing of his association with the military M-16 I approached him and asked if we could have a conversation about it and explained what I was doing. He consented.
Briefly; In the conversation he told me of the civilian design origin of the AR-15 and how he took that design intended for the civilian market and made some military focused changes and produced a design that he wanted to market to the military. He also told me that he was somewhat dismayed that Armalite shelved that original design civilian AR-15 completely because he thought it made sense that they eventually market the civilian AR-15 and the military focused version he had done with that original civilian AR-15 design. But Armalite didn’t have the money to market both so shelved the original civilian AR-15 and pushed for the military market as he wanted but with the AR-10 because it was ready for production if they got a contract and a government contract would bring in some much needed money more quickly.
(note: we talked of various things, his history, how Amalite did their design cycles, the designs they did that never because known, and how they prototype’d firearms, general stuff with manufacture, etc….) conversation continues … now we are at more boring part mostly business type stuff about the eventual demise of that Armalite which is not the same Armalite company today that created the original AR-15 civilian design then later the Stoner rendition AR-15 – two different entities … So the original Armalite rolled the dice and failed to capture the military market eventually leading to their demise financially, and were forced to sell the AR-10 and Stoners version of the AR-15 civilian rifle patents to Colt. ok caught up…). He told me Colt took some bits of the AR-10 and his version of the civilian AR-15 designs and used them to do a redesign of his version because by that time some things had changed a little in the military requirements so to address those a redesign was necessary and Colt was eventually successful in marketing their re-design of his rendition of the original design AR-15 civilian rifle – that Colt redesign later became the M-16.
“and one day I will get around to releasing them“
Alrighty then…
Until then, as jwm would put it, its just ‘hearsay’.
correction: “never because known”
should have been
never became known
No Miner49, its not ‘hearsay’.
I’ve let various journalists listen to the tapes. One of those journalists listening sessions resulted in this at > https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2022/what-is-ar15-rifle-history-of-firearm/ > A left wing fact checking organization, part of the larger politifact organization which is one of your own left wing sources you have used to perpetuate your BS.
“The origin of the AR-15
First developed in the 1950s for civilian use…”
why has my other post, that went to moderation, not yet appeared?
““Our father, Eugene Stoner, designed the AR-15 and subsequent M-16”
False (inaccurate), maybe not intentionally but still false.
The AR-15 was originally intended for the civilian market. Stoners design was not the original AR-15 design. He took the civilian design and made a new design to make changes for the military market. its just coincidence that both the original civilian and Stoners version based on that original civilian design happened to have fallen in the same design cycle 15 sequence and both were designated AR-15 with the original civilian design coming first intending to be for the civilian market, then the civilian market version was shelved leaving Stoners version of the AR-15.
Armalite was in financial difficulties and as a result were forced to sell the AR-10 and Stoners version of the AR-15 civilian rifle patents to Colt. The AR-15 patent Colt got was the Stoner rendition of the original design AR-15 civilian rifle. Colt took bits from each design, and redesigned the Stoner rendition of the original design AR-15 civilian rifle. That Colt redesign later became the M-16.
Stoner did not design the M-16.
where the confusion lies with this is that Stoner left ArmaLite in 1961 to serve as a consultant for Colt. During the period he was with Colt he did have input for developing the M-16, but Colt engineers designed it and not Stoner.
It is cheap. Government contracts are awarded to the candidate or contractor that meets the most requirements at the lowest cost. There are many piston driven actions that are far superior to the DI. The ergonomics suck too.
There is a second part that is often overlooked in that assessment. It is also good enough and easy to support. We will see what comes of the Sig project but economy of scale and iterative improvements put this design above just about anything else available at any practical scale especially when spare parts are considered.
Yeah, parts support is a BIG thing I worry about with the Army’s new rifle. 80k PSI is gonna cause some serious throat erosion and I can’t find any information on barrel life… so it’s probably pretty bad
That’s the caliber born of better body armor, as I’m sure you know Good point about the barrels. Better keep some handy…
Well we will see re armor penetration, I would imagine lv 3 wouldn’t be a problem but lv 4 tends to handle narrower penetrators (5.56-7.62) better than larger ones (7.92+) so unless they are doing tungsten carbide or something unexpected with the extra pressure and harder steel alternative targets may still be needed for near peer conflict.
Full auto elephant guns and robots to shoot them?
It’s how much armor can you carry versus how much recoil you handle. It looks to me like armor wins eventually, given the room for advances in materials science.
The recent pics of Putin and Xi reviewing presumably elite Chinese troops were interesting. They were all toting SKS’s. Is that a ceremonial thing. or the result of a strategic decision? Or maybe just not wanting to show of their cool stuff…
Lv 4 /ESAPI/XSAPI already necessitate tungsten carbide and heavier just to have a shot at penetration and those can get as low as 4 pounds a plate from what I saw a decade ago. Armor in some ways is out developing bullets for the mass issue scale. To be brutally honest I would imagine fireteam level grenade launchers and other explosives are just as likely to be a long term solution as any super rifle even before we consider drones.
“how much recoil you handle“
That’s assuming a purely kinetic projectile.
The obvious answer is downsizing shaped charges, to deliver a jet of superheated vaporized metal to penetrate even vehicle armor.
I would hope improvements in metallurgy/coatings would be at play with such an item, but then again it is military procurement. Also it is effectively jamming a magnum rifle into a short action so……..yeah may have a range of accuracy before replacement that a individual soldier could witness.
It is not DI. It’s an internal piston system. The M-16/AR-15 bolt does double duty as its own piston.
There was a French design that was true direct impingement, where the gas pushed on the bolt directly.
Still, introducing combustion gases and unburned powder residue directly into the bolt/bolt carrier seems like a bad idea.
I have a piston driven AR that I built for my personal use, and it is the only thing that I think is an improvement on the basic AR15 design. I have done several torture tests in which I fire (slow fire, stop to load the mag after each 30 shots) as much ammo as I can before the rifle fails. I use the cheap, crappy, dirty, steel case ammo for the tests, and I start out with the carrier well lubed. With the standard direct impingement gas system, I usually get about 400 rounds before the rifle quits. I have yet to fail the gas piston rifle before my 500 round case of ammo is gone.
Post mortem cleaning if the DI rifles always reveals the bolt carrier assembly badly fouled with carbon. I even found 2 of 3 gas rings worn all the way through with less than 1000 rounds from new in one case (I usually get 2-3000 rounds when I clean regularly).
The gas piston rifle was pristine after it’s 500 round test. I was able to clean the carrier with a single patch soaked in Hoppe’s #9, really just a pro-forma exercise given how clean it was.
I have also read tales from the sandbox that when in bad and extended fire fights, the point of failure for an M4 was the gas tube bursting after getting red/white hot. This would happen after a few hundred rounds on full auto. No gas tube on a gas piston rifle.
So for me, my tool for the zombie apocalypse will be my AR with the gas piston upper.
Should note the M-16 was adopted first for the USAF Security Police after Gen Curtis LeMay got to experience firing one at a picnic in Maryland. He was impressed with the lightweight nature and capabilities.
Eventually it found its way into the US Army and other services.
“The mystique of this special rifle begins its journey from Hartford, Connecticut to Baltimore, Maryland on February 17, 1960 and ends up in Fairfield, Maine in 2011 after traveling around the globe more than two times.
According to the research of David Norman, and later confirmed by Mr. William Mullen, Vice President of Cooper Macdonald Corp., it is believed that in December of 1959 Colt manufactured 20 of their new Colt ArmaLite AR-15 automatic rifles and it is documented through Colt that rifle #00106 was shipped to Cooper Macdonald Corp. on February 17, 1960. Cooper Macdonald Corp. was contracted to market this firearm.
It was in a July 15, 1992 meeting where many of the former suspicions were realized as factual. When Mr. Mullen was asked if #000106 was indeed the rifle that traveled around the world on two occasions and the rifle involved in the famous July 4, 1960 “Watermelon Demonstration” he replied, “Absolutely.”
When asked to recount the demonstration that would eventually lead to the adoption of this weapon system Mr. Mullen recounted the day. He stated the event was actually a yearly gathering at the Macdonald’s farm, usually for recreation: in his words, “a cookout and beer-bust.” A few days before the date he was asked to bring the rifle along because there would be “…some brass there.” Little did he know that the guests that day would include General Curtis LeMay, the United States Air Force Chief of Staff.
When it came time in the day to shoot this new rifle some watermelons were placed at approximately 50, 75 and 100 yards. General LeMay fired at and destroyed two of the watermelons. The General was very impressed with the results and noted there was one target remaining. When he was asked if he wanted to shoot the last watermelon or just go down and eat it, General LeMay sighted in on the lone melon and replied, “Let’s eat the son of a bitch!” It was in the middle of a field, eating watermelon where the discussion arose about an 8,500-unit order for the Air Force. It was at that point that Colt ArmaLite #106 became the rifle that made the M16 weapon system happen.
Another piece of information that seems to follow this rifle and its history is that it was fired by President Kennedy from the deck of his grandfather’s yacht, the Honey Fitz. Though this writer to date has uncovered no official documentation, this claim has been personally seen in an ad in Shotgun News dated November 15, 1977 and more recently in several Internet sites and blogs. Though very far from irrefutable proof, it is just another bit of lore that follows this legendary rifle.
The coconut part of the rifle’s adopted nickname came from its sales trips where it traveled to South Vietnam and several other “tropical” places. Coconuts were often used as targets to demonstrate the lethality of the rifle, hence the nickname. Other targets were also used in these demonstrations but due to the number of countries it traveled to and the newness of the weapon system it was quickly associated with the most common target engaged with this new, tiny projectile from a completely different type of rifle and the nickname “coconut rifle” stuck like glue
I have never been a member of the armed forces, and I’m a bit of an amateur military history buff, so, please, forgive and correct anything that may be wrong.
I always understood the M-16’s prime purpose was suppressive fire; force the enemy to keep his head down while larger and more effective weapons are brought to bear to wipe him out — like heavy machine guns, mortars, artillery and airstrikes.
I look at the SCAR trials. The three finalists were FNH, HK and Colt. FNH came in first, HK a close second and Colt in a very distant third. Both the FNH and HK were piston designs. The Colt, DI. Reportedly, as soon as they were cleared, Delta Force switched out their DI M4s for piston action HKs. If I could, I would get a CZ Bren 2.
Jesus, I won’t even get started.
Lol k
Carried the M16 in combat both jungle and rice paddy, trained with the M14 before the M16 was issued and would have liked to carry it at least in rice paddy territory for the longer range shooting knock down power. All in all both rifles were very strong combat arms and liked by the guys carrying them. Would have been nice for a choice between them, but realize the supply issues more than one caliber would cause in the field.
In boot camp I qualified with an M-14. Later, I was able to qualify at those ranges with the M16A1
My Army basic training rifle, m16a1, had an Armalite ar15 marked lower. The whole thing was worn out. Only liked to run really wet.The ancient mags didn’t help either
My first choice from back in the day would have been the FN-FAL. Followed by the M-14 then comes the M-16. Just prefer the 30 cal over the souped up 22.
That said I do have a couple AR-15 type rifles. Including an original mid ’70’s vintage Colt AR.
What is nice about the AR pattern rifle is the modular design with adjustable stocks. It can be fit to almost any individual, has minimal recoil and is reasonably accurate.
Media hype and fear mongering is what makes it popular with those with evil or criminal intent.
Scream about how the AR is some sort of super gun that can destroy any and everything within a square mile with every shot loud and long enough and some nutcase will believe it
“the Stoner family told NBC News late Wednesday. “He died long before any mass shootings occurred”
Bullshit. Stoner died in 1997. The era of school killings started in 1966.
Further: the Model 1905 Winchester and the Model 1908 Remington were at least as capable of perpetrating massacres as the AR15. Maybe more so, considering they were of heavier caliber than the AR15, and were available to civilians in full auto until 1934. No background checks, permits, or ID required.
Why no associated massacres? It ain’t the guns.
You are looking in places that people don’t want to get answers from.
Drug leg@liz@tion. Traditional family break down. The sexualization of nearly every thing. The weaponization of government and our political discourse.
And the growing and never ending gun control movement.
The question is, are you really interested in getting honest answers???
btw
Most people think about the Texas tower shooting. But most have never heard of the San Diego elementary school shooting. The killer was a 14 year girl. Who said she was “just bored.”
From I think over 100 yards away, she killed two adults and wounded 7 or 10 kindergarten age children. I think it was in 1979.
The first modern day school shooting. By a teenager. She used a bolt action rifle in 22lr. As I remember she had a terrible family life.
Why keep posting this bald-faced lie about drug prohibition? Do you have some mental issue?
DRUGS WERE OVER-THE-COUNTER LEGAL IN AMERICA FROM 1776-1905. THEY HAVE NOT BEEN LEGAL SINCE 1905 ANYWHERE IN AMERICA.
Got it?
Spencer (school shooter) described herself as a “radical” and referred to policemen as “pigs”, exclaiming “All right!” when seeing news on TV about cops being killed and often talking about wanting to kill cops or “blow them away”.
She looks like a left wing letsbein. Shockingly, she comes from a broken home. Maybe we should look into this phenomenon to prevent further tragedies. Nah, it’ll be fine…
“Bullshit… The era of school killings started in 1966”
Yes, the collective amnesia of America is just so fascinating.
“On March 28, 1891 a man with a doubled barreled shotgun fired upon a crowd of students and faculty attending a school exhibition in Parson Hall School House in Liberty, Mississippi.The perpetrator wounded over fourteen people mostly children, with several being seriously wounded. This incident is perhaps one of the earliest reported school mass shootings in the country.
The incident that is regarded as the second mass shooting in this country happened a month after the Liberty, Mississippi shootings. On April 9, 1891 James Foster went inside St. Mary’s Parochial School in New York, and opened fire. The students he shot all survived, the trauma they experienced left a footprint that although undoubtedly hard to forget was in time actually forgotten. The mass shootings that occurred in 1891 appear to be so far detached, time-wise, that today they are little known. In 1966, when the tower shootings happened in Austin, the headlines of the day failed to recall any mass shooting that happened before the turn of the twentieth century, almost as if these had been erased in our society’s collective memory.”
That is because they are statistically insignificant.
Yes, the collective amnesia of the radical extremist left winger’s like Miner49er is just so fascinating.
We’ve had mass shootings for over 100 years, folks just don’t care to remember the facts of history when it doesn’t fit their delusional narrative:
“For instance mass shootings in the twentieth century can be traced back to 1903. On August 14 of that year Gilbert Twigg, a war veteran, deliberately fired into a crowd of people in Winfield Kansas immediately killing 9 and wounding 25 unsuspecting others. Thomas Jones a few years later also went on a murderous shooting spree on January 1913 in Houston, Texas as did Wesley Crow, a professor, who on June 4, 1936 shot and killed 5 in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.“
“Other mass shootings happened particularly those within school settings such as the mass shootings that occurred on Pasadena Public School on May 9, 1940 when 30 year old Verlin Spencer opened fire on school property killing 4. November 6, 1948 was witness to Melvin Collins’s tragic shootings. Collins went inside the boarding house he had been living in, and decided to shoot people walking outside from inside his hiding spot inside the boarding house. Collins killed eight people and injured countless more. In a similar fashion an ex-military man, Howard Unruh, shot thirteen people and wounded at least five others in Camden, New Jersey on September 1949. William Bauer left seven dead including himself, in 1956 and Principal Leonard O. Redden on February 2, 1960, opened fire at a crowd of 30 students at William Reed Elementary.“
So one every 8 years or so on average from 1891-1966, several of which were not school shootings, none committed by juveniles, and none of which can be blamed on the guns. How many does Mother Jones claim happened just this year?
The reliance of the Left on fallacy is stunning. But keep looking, there must be more.
The US population in 1903 was approximately 83 million.
Current US population is 334 million.
Obviously, with an 400% increase in population, the frequency of these incidents will increase over time.
Still less than 1 a year 1891-1966. How many does Mommy’s Jonesin’ claim for YTD?
They gave me my first M16-A1 in 1979. it sucked. So did every one I was issued/owned after that. I keep one out as a ready rifle because any AR should be able to get through 20 rds. Great ergonomics though.
Yeah, I always liked the carry handle…
As far as “sport” goes, the most fun I ever had with .223 was shooting a 788 Rem.
What would be in use today if the AR platform had not been invented?
A real rifle.
Lol, it served. But your point is good.
I remember when they used to brag on the Sherman tank as “a symbol of [US] innovation, resilience and tactical supremacy.”
Should have been better.
I carried an M16 long before I got issued an M4. I liked the M4. It’s really nice to have an adjustable length of pull. But you do lose the rifle gun cleaning kit storage, with the M4 rifle.
Even in the guard we barely saw M16’s of any version (mostly A2 when we did but did get to see an A3 once) and for M4 we only ever saw the A1 with that nonsense 3 round burst which between that and beat to shit 80’s era mags were the only times I saw anything in an AR jam that wasn’t due to some really dumb private/butter bar actions.
Spend almost three years in Nam as a Naval Gun Fire spotter 0849. Was issued M-14 upon in country. Walked through paddies, fell in patties with my submerge weapon. Shook it out cleared the weapon without taking it apart. Caught in firefight soon afterwards performed excellent. We would clean in diesel fuel. Then came the M=16. Jammed and with the purple ammo was always jamming in fire fights. Finally after almost three years was sent to Kha Sanh. (This was after Hue’) Gunny in the Armory said, turn in your 16 and here is your 14, so you can REACH OUT AND KILL SOMEONE. It was excellent and performed like it should.
Semper Fidelis
I’ve so far resisted the urge to obtain an AR. The current state of affairs may overcome that feeling. I am interested in the piston system and am pondering the PSA Jakl. It’s priced right at a decent AR price point and the “experts” on YT say get an AR instead. I guess I’m buffer-shy.
A good thing about a standard AR is that you will always be able to find cheap parts for it. I don’t know anything about the Jakl, but it looks interesting. If it’s new from PSA (or about anyone really), it’s best to wait a couple of years for them to work the bugs out.
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