At IWA Walther was showing off some new handguns for the self defense and competition markets, specifically their five-inch PPQ and their new CCP line of pistols. I was able to get my hands on the guns, and I was actually pretty impressed . . .
The five-inch PPQ is a damn slick gun, sporting an extended magazine release button and a fiber optic front sight that would make it perfect for competitive shooting. The trigger is crisp and clean, and the trigger shoe is flat and smooth. The gun even feels good in my hands, which is both a blessing and a curse — if it feels good in my gigantic mitts, then the molding might not work for those with smaller paws.
The CCP is designed more for the concealed carry crowd, with a shorter grip and barrel length, but still sports some of the features of the PPQ. That includes the same nice feeling trigger, an accessory rail under the barrel and the molded grip. The grip on the CCP didn’t quite fit me the same way the PPQ did, but that’s going to be down to personal preference.
Both of the guns seem to be well-made, but the real test will be in seeing how they handle on the range. I’ve asked for some samples to test and we’ll let you know how they do as soon as possible. [Jeremy S. EDIT: I just finished up testing out a new PPQ M2 5″ and it’s shipping out to Joe Grine tomorrow for him to test. This will result in a joint review going up on TTAG here in the not-too-distant future. On a related note, the ergos were great for me also, plus it ships with S, M, and L swappable backstraps to accommodate various hand sizes. Also, the U.S. version has standard 3-dot sights instead of that fiber optic.)
Am I the only one that thinks Walther makes goofy-looking pistols?
Yes, you are the only one that thinks that, Walther make great looking guns. Bet you are a Glock person.
Good to know. I’ll just carry on thinking that all by myself, then.
Lol….
They look a bit off ( just distinctive maybe?) to me. I can’t put a finger on it though…..
Yeah, a Glock guy, most likely… Glocks faced the very same accusations when they were introduced into the market. So think about THAT.
Actually, Glocks look clumsy to me, but it is your right to love them.
The Walther pictured, to me, is in-between beautiful and awkward-looking. But I can dig it for what it is: a nice-looking, functional handgun. I would not toss it out of bed, ever.
Nope, not a Glock guy.
But do like the look of Springfield’s XD and XDm, so that probably puts me in the same aesthetic camp as all the Glockers. You might call them blocky, but I love the utilitarian, purposeful look of the Springfields; to my eye, the Walthers have too many converging angles and fussy details.
I’m not saying anything about how these Walthers actually perform. Never shot one or even held one, so I don’t know. I wouldn’t turn down the opportunity based only on looks, that’s for sure.
I don’t much care for their looks either. They all look like ultra-modern pellet guns intended to cater to the aesthetic sensibilities of twelve year old boys.
It doesn’t really have much to do with aesthetics, but rather ergonomics. It flat out feels like it was molded to your individual hand and becomes an extension of your arm. And the trigger is better than that of any polymer, striker-fired pistol on the market, hands down. I originally rejected it on the basis of how it looks, but even its appearance has grown on me. And for those like me who don’t like to carry tiny guns with minimal capacity, this gun is just the right size. The grip ends right at the bottom of the hand and holds 15 rounds.
Steve’s right. When Walther started making polymer guns, they decided one way they could out-do Glock was ergonomics. The P99, introduced in 1997, had a grip designed by one Cesar Morini. He designs grips for and makes Olympic Match pistols and such. It was also the first pistol to offer adjustable backstraps, which Glock finally started offering in 2011.
Walther has retained the same basic shape of their pistols, and the grips, since (excluding the PPS, vintage designs, etc.).
Try shooting a PPQ sometime.
As long as you don’t shoot my BBQ!
I’d say moderately ugly. I’m sort of a Glock guy, but I don’t think Glocks are pretty. 1911’s and Smith revolvers can definitely be beautiful.
I do like the classic Walthers a lot better, myself–the ones that were made out of steel. Sorry, I just don’t like plastic guns.
I don’t care for the two-tone slide/frame contrast on that one, but Walther’s not the only one who offers that. So I can’t really single them out for it. Other than that, I don’t get the ribbing on the slide, I suppose it’s emphasized like that for people who rack using their thumb and index finger and need some grip. I rack whole hand from the top, which people should do, so it’s not really a benefit for me.
If I had to complain, I’d say a design shouldn’t make it easier or more comfortable to do what shouldn’t be done in the first place, like racking with thumb and index finger; but it’s probably not that big a deal.
Why do you say people should rack with their whole hand from the top? I prefer thumb and index finger because I know the muzzle is pointed down range. I have seen a lot of people racking over the top point their pistols at the guy in the shooting stall to their left. And I have always been instructed to not rack that way for that reason. Genuinely curious on this one.
I’ve seen that, too, and that’s a serious drawback, because that’s a natural motion from the shooter’s perspective. I rack with the firearm directed down range, tilted about 90 degrees to the left, and rack whole hand with my left hand, webbing facing forward. The ones who point left, even if upward to the left, aren’t considering safety, I agree.
Between the combination of sweat, possibly blood, maybe rain, injury to either digit, grip strength, and the inherent fine motor skills required, I’m just not convinced that thumb and forefinger racking is a reliable method in a defensive gun use.
Whether that’s to chamber the first round, as some carry empty, or to clear a malfunction, being able to rack the action in one attempt could be the difference between life and death. So I use the whole hand method, aiming downrange, thumb/forefinger webbing across the top of the slide. I just manhandle the action, without babying it, to ensure smooth clearing/chambering. The trick, especially on pocket pistols, is avoiding catching your thumb on the open chamber. I don’t have a great answer for that, though, other than practice.
I shouldn’t have declared this the best or right way. There’s a strong argument in its favor, though, and I’d expect it would suit more people’s needs all around.
They look way too much like a Hi Point for me to bring myself to buy one. The PPK and PPS are the only exceptions.
I’ve seen these comparisons with Hi Points online and when you actually look at this pistol side by side with a Hi Point they have nothing in common at all.
Glad I’m not the only one to see the Hi Point resemblance–put an outsized slide on that frame and grip and voila’ !
I’d really like to give that CCP a try. I liked the size of the PPS, but hated, hated, hated the ergonomics of the grip.
Nick can you ask the rep if they intend coming out with the CCCP model this year? I hear it will be called informally the PUTIN model.
In Soviet Russia, gun fires you!
I laughed, but Soviet Russia gone long time! Now USA far more Soviet than Russia.
In Soviet America….
gosh, I don’t know….
Allegiance pledges you?
http://bit.ly/1m1BKKg
Coming out in 9mm Markov details here…
http://bit.ly/4kb77v
The PPQ is sure good looking. I think I just added another semi auto to my wish list. Lemme see… in CA, at a “one-per-month” rate per the screwy laws… I ought to be able to get one about 2016.
Love to see a review. My brother has a 9mm PPS and loves it. Very thin and concealable.
Own Glock and Walther. Like both but prefer the Walther.
Why does the slide release almost disappear on the concealed carry version? You’d think people would want a large slide release on a defense gun.
I think the PPQ and CCP are good-looking, but then again I carry a P30. Also, what’s with Walther working for other companies? From what I’ve seen Walther helped H&K make the P30 and S&W make the M&P.
Smith and Wesson used to be the sole importer of Walther into the USA. They have since ended that arrangement but still have some sort of partnership. S&W actually makes the PPK for Walther, as a means of getting around import laws. In the 1990s, S&W kinda let their offerings get a little stale, so for a time they imported Walther P99s, with Walther making the frame and etc. and S&W providing the slide and barrel; they were marketed as “SW99” or “SW99” and were actually pretty popular among Police Departments until S&W made their polymer M&P line.
Walther and HK have not collaborated on pistol design. IIRC, the P30 (introduced 2001) was HK’s direct response to the P99(introduced 1997). The PPQ was influenced by the P30, but came about originally as P99 reconfigurations to meet contract requirements, and it did well enough they released it commercially. Internally Walther considers the PPQ to be a P99 revision, like the discontinued P99QA and P99DAO.
Walther contracted Cesar Morini of Morini Competition – Products, an Italian Olympic pistol grip designer to design the grip of the P99.
HK outsourced the grip design of their P30 to Karl Nill, which also makes world class Olympic pistol grips.
It’s funny, because the trigger-guard mag release was introduced in 1997 on the Walther, and copied by HK later, but I hear and read many people calling it an “HK-style” mag release; HK designs are praised for innovation in the gun mags, while the same writers grumble something to the tune of “…what was Walther thinking with this mag release? It hurts my fingers. I’d recommend this if it came with a push button…but as it is I just can’t…”
According to the guys at Cabelas the Walther PPQ in 9mm is the most overlooked pistol ever, even though it’s the same size as a glock 19 with the same capacity.
Does anybody have expirerience with the STI Duty One? I’m seriously considering the 5″ model. Any advice would be great
I want to like the PPQ, I really do, particularly because of the ambidextrous controls. I got to hold one at a sports show last month and I don’t know, just didn’t impress me as much as I’d hoped. I’ll have to shoot one to be sure, maybe side by side with an FNS 9 to sort things out.
Wiregrass, I have both the PPQ M2 and the FNS 9. They happen to be my favorite pistols. I am constantly torn between the two, because they both have outstanding features and both shoot wonderfully. I like to carry a full size gun, and I find that I go back and forth between the two. Try the PPQ, I think you will like it.
I own almost every Walther up the line of caliber’s and can honestly say that of all the incredible quality guns on the market, these will take the cake for me every time. I’ve never held a gun like the P99 (9mm), that points so naturally and is just a treat to shoot. Fits in my hand perfectly, which is subjective. Also have heard phenomenal remarks about the PPQ trigger.
The comments on the Q’s trigger are all true! I have a 1st gen PPQ and it has the best trigger of any polymer handgun i have ever fired. Combined with what feels like a 2mm reset… center mass double tabs are just afterthoughts!
Agreed. Its the super-short, highly-tactile reset that sells it. Its a magnificent trigger for stock. Extremely underrated pistol.
Prefer my Gen1 with lever mag release. Never will it leave my possession. Never.
Yes Sir!!
IMO, the PPQ M2 has the best trigger of any polymer gun there is. It is smooth. The gun feels extremely comfortable in ANY hand, the grip is very smartly designed. The bad… subjective yes, but I find it to be extremely UGLY to look at. Also the plastic has a weird feel, very unlike glock or M&P or the extremely high quality P30 plastic. The gun is also very flippy although it is a soft shooter. Personally outside of the range, I would be uncomfortable carrying it or use it for HD. The trigger is so smooth and easy to pull, it seems downright dangerous. If I didn’t already have a great range gun, the PPQ would be appealing but as such I don’t have a use for it.
I agree on the PPQ trigger.
I have an M1. Awesome trigger but…way short and slick in my paws to the point where I would not carry it. When I hand it to someone who has never shot it before unintentional double taps are common. I do love it as an excellent range toy.
I saw listed on the CCP specs that it has 2 mm less travel than the PPQ. I’d like to try one, but I don’t know if I’d personally feel okay carrying it with such a slick trigger.
Yeah, yeah, I know all the rules. But I got iron monkey claw powerful hands to where a Glock with NY1 or NY2 spring feels about right to me. YMMV of course.
For a while after getting the PPQ M2 I also was unintentionally double-tapping. The trigger takes some getting used to, but I progressively learned to master it. I now have 2250 rounds through the gun, and I have it down. It’s worth it to train with this gun and gain the experience needed to properly operate it. I really love this trigger!
Unless you are into full size carry, the CCCP is too large, too thick and too tall for CCW. Except for length, it is almost as big as a Colt Commander. 6.22″ long, 1.2″ thick (and its just a single stack nine) and 5.12″ high.
To me those dimensions say “pocket pistol.” Really. I pocket carry a G36 often enough, and it is slightly longer but slightly thinner than the dimensions you provide. If I holster carry it is a G30S. I occasionally holster-carry a PPQ as I get used to having at least one 9mm.
I’m hoping that measurement of 1.2″ for the width is measuring at the safety. If that is the actual slide width, then it is just too wide, and of course, as wide as the Glock 9mm’s. For concealed carry, I don’t mind a double stack, as long as the slide is thin (ie. the part that’s actually inside the waistband). The Bersa Thunder 380 plus has the right idea in this regard. It has a nice 15 round double-stack magazine, but the slide is thin, which should make it more comfortable to carry (for someone who didn’t mind the caliber). Why don’t other manufacturers do that? Everybody’s trying to make the grip thin with single-stack configurations, but the grip is not what’s causing me a problem; it’s the 1.18″ slide. Skinny up the slide like a Tokarev or 1911, give me a 12 round mag, keep the weight to about 27 ounces (loaded), and I’d be happy (if I could find an IWB holster for it).
Some folks on the Walther Forum think the CCP will be marketed to women CCW’s. It features a “Softcoil” reduced recoil system and the slide racks with very little effort, all built around a very accurate fixed polygonal barrel. And it’s got the legendary Walther trigger – the CCP’s trigger pull weight is the same as the PPQ, but the pre-travel is 2mm less. Don’t shoot a Walther unless you can deal with wanting to sell your Glock, M&P or XDm….
Sell?! Just make room in the safe 🙂
The Walther PPQ M1 9mm is superior to the Glock Gen4 17 & 19 without question. Better reliability (Yes it’s true OMG) and ergo’s not to mention the trigger reset is without question one of the best in the world. People get so hung up on Glocks and there supposed reliability. Even get mad when you say otherwise. HK and Walther make a superior handguns.
I have owned my Walther PPQ M2 for about a year. I’m not loyal to any one brand. I held it, fired it, and bought it. The PPQ M1 range weapon at my gun range has over 20,000 rounds without any mechanical failures. It retains all the original parts. When you rack the slide, it feels as tight as the 5″ M2 my buddy bought two weeks ago. It is a fine weapon.
Why is the CCP any better than the competition, almost all of which is more compact? E.g. M&P Shield. Or walther’s own pps?
This is a PPQ for the subcompact/compact Glock crowd. Someone who wants a bigger package than the PPS.
So basically, people shopping for a worse gun.
Spray a brick with black paint and you have a PPQ. Except the brick is a few ounces lighter.
Silly comment. It weighs 24 oz.
The same can be said about pretty much any polymer framed gun…
Delbert I am not sure how to say this in an easy way for you to understand, but you are an idiot. Your comment above just tells me that you have not even picked up a PPQ, much less shot one. This gun is possibly the best feeling and opperating polymer right out of the box that there is. And if it is too heavy 4 you, try letting ur husband use it instead.
I’ve owned P99 since the introduction.
While I agree, they “appear” awkward, the ergonomics of the P99 are excellent.
I don’t think that I have ever fired an auto that sits more comfortable in the Web of your hand.
I’m a glock guy too, but I feel that Walther is a higher quality handgun.
If you shoot a PPQ you will want to own one. It is that much of a pleasure to shoot. The trigger rocks.
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