Every school shooting invites a great deal of discussion. What the problem is, what “the solution” might be and so on. What becomes evident fairly quickly is that there’s no magic bullet, so to speak, that will prevent these atrocities. There are, however, a number of smaller things that can significantly reduce the odds of a school shooting happening.
It’s obvious an “assault weapon” ban simply won’t do the trick. It’s obvious that universal background checks won’t likely help much in this regard, either.
But after an incident like Santa Fe, it’s clear there’s something that can and should be used to great effect. A common enough device that, if used correctly, could have prevented a number of school shootings in the past and could prevent more in the future. They don’t even cost that much; you would be shocked how inexpensive they can be.
The object is a gun safe. You just have to use it.
As Andrew Carnegie said, put all your eggs in one basket and watch that basket. In other words, the correct usage of a gun safe is to store all of your firearms, save a carry gun or a home defense gun, in said safe and lock it. When you aren’t home, all firearms should be locked away securely, as well as any ammunition.
Correct usage is also to not allow anyone else access, except perhaps a spouse. All guns go in the safe unless they’re under your control, and that’s it.
Would this prevent all school shootings from happening? Of course not. Some firearms used were purchased legally by the shooter after they had attained sufficient age, and some school shooters obtained theirs via straw purchase. However, would securing firearms prevent a good many of them?
Probably. Most school shooters, you see, obtain firearms from a parent, often by using unsecured guns or a safe that they have access to.
The Santa Fe shooter gained access to his father’s shotgun and .38 revolver that reportedly were stored in a closet. The Sandy Hook shooter had access to his mother’s gun safe, which allowed him to get the gun he used to kill her and 20 students and teachers at the school.
One of the perpetrators of the Westside Middle School shootings of 1998, near Jonesboro, Ark. had access to his grandfather’s gun collection, which is how they gathered nine guns and ammunition to carry out their attack, killing five in the process.
More examples are out there, of course.
Granted, having a gun safe, keeping them locked up and controlling access to the safe isn’t going to stop all school or mass shootings. There are other steps that could be taken to reduce their number or minimize casualties. School security needs to be much more of a consideration that it is now.
Armed guards with adequate training, for instance. Reducing ingress o schools to one or two controlled entrances with metal detectors is another. Teachers choosing to carry concealed firearms with adequate training would be a positive step, as well.
There is no panacea, no magic bullet that’s going to keep these horrible events from happening. But if there is one thing the average gun owner can do manage the risk, it’s to get a gun safe and strictly control access to it.
Sam Hoober is a contributing editor at Alien Gear Holsters, as well as for Bigfoot Gun Belts. He also writes weekly columns for Daily Caller and USA Carry.
That second picture is a poor choice, as there are videos on YouTube where a man teaches his toddler to open that style in a matter of seconds. But the others would likely keep out all but the most determined crazies with powertools.
Also the fact of “Positive Myoclonus” while sleeping. Setting of Biometric Hand Scanner usually take place during the Daytime Hours, when skin on hand is Relaxed. During Sleep Skin Muscles will contracted offsetting size of Fingerprints. Which could give a “False Positive” reading to the biometric hand scanner. Locking you out of your own Gun Safe.
That’s not a biometric safe.
Are you sure? Because it certainly looks like one!
It sure looks like one to me as well, in fact I THINK it’s this one which does say it’s fingerprint-activated:
https://www.amazon.com/GunVault-GV1000C-STD-Mini-Vault-Standard/dp/B001C601KA/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1527374498&sr=8-7&keywords=bedside+safe
Negative. These are push button. One sets a certain sequence to open. I own four of them.
Gator is correct – that’s a push-button sequence activated/opened quick access gun storage box. Bloody fingers dripping in sweat and adrenalin will still work.
Isn’t it true that all of the large safes pictured here can be cut open through their sides with a $20 Harbor Freight angle grinder and 20 minutes?
Yes, but even the worlds best vaults can’t stop a determined aggressor. Safes are like fortified defenses. They’re designed to slow and frustrate an intruder or family member. They are also effective against the lazy criminal of the smash and grab variety, who make up the vast majority of criminals. Most criminals become so because they are lazy and want things quickly. If they have to work hard or think to get something, they simply abandon the effort.
Just store your black powder in the same safe and don’t worry about. I would put a warning sign on the safe just in case. No reason to blow your house up if you don’t have to.
Concussion, forgot the number to the safe, cant get in.
Thanks, maybe I will get to go hunting after all.
We have a gun safe.
However, it’s a cheap one.
I’m pretty sure that someone with a flatbar and a hammer could get in there pretty easily,
especially if my grandfather KEEPS LEAVING THE DAMN KEY IN THE DOOR.
After purchasing a house the old homeowner said they had a floor safe in the master bedroom closet. It was for small items such as jewelry and such. I liked it because the hatch weighed about 30 lbs. and was about ten inches across and about four inches thick. Solid steel. You could take off the dial which I did when we were out of town. The old people did have a habit of writing the combo and hiding it all over the house.
I am all for increased information about firearm safety. There are lots of great bits of advice, and certainly a great market of low and high tech solutions as well. What I disagree with is one version of what that looks like becoming law.
Children are not in my wife and my future, and I have never had a youth into my home, probably because nearly all our friends don’t have kids or their kids have grown up and moved on. I have firearms and various collectable blades on displays around my home, and locks on my doors, a security system, and several 100lb + dogs. We are both usually armed as well.
Nobody should have the right to mandate how I live within my own castle.
Reminds me of an Old Neighbor I use to have, he own 15 Rottweilers. God forbid if you walked past his yard while eating something.
Any safe that is something more than TSAesk theater (a joke) is quite expensive. Like several thousand $. These are NOT a Safe just a metal storage locker.
Further I don’t want one and an not going to buy one of the POS. My minor children and not useless morons and learned gun safety as toddlers (DON”T TOUCH) and how to shoot at a young age. The ONLY reason I’d waste $ on one would be for a FIRE rated storage box. As I live in a Type 2 Noncombustible structure not needed.
https://consumerfiles.com/best-fire-rated-gun-safe-reviews/
If your children are useless morons get your house in order and stop preaching.
Amen to that! Decent number of military, law enforcement, and first responders in my family. Growing up we had several people that were gunsmiths. Guns were a normal part of life for my family, and as kids they were all over everything, homes, vehicles, etc.. Most of our neighbors were in the same boat, and I was raised in suburbs, not the country. Even saw my share of gun racks all the way up through high school kids that were free to park at the highschool of thousands, right around the time of Columbine when I was a freshman.
Not a single person in my family ever brought harm to another by use of gun. I grew up in the 80’s, so it wasn’t that long ago.
Same here, in the 80’s, too. Everything changed after Columbine, and it’s worse now. I think social media plays a bigger part than the video games, kids are shunned and picked twice a much during the school day, and then during off hours, too.
I think the problem is that we stopped allowing personal responsibility, and we forgot that bringing damages to others person or property we’re illegal. All the blame is shifting to inanimate objects, and public opinion on lifestyle conformity. Gay folks are free to flaunt out of the closet, but not my guns. Non-gun owners are free to dictate gun law, but we hardly get asked to the table unless our answers punish law abiding citizens. The media packages folks that understand guns as a minority, and as if they are the ones that don’t understand their own subject matter.
This is a culture war, not a war on safety. And unfortunately mass media gave the urban centers much more visibility so uninformed people can just ‘like’ something because it’s trending and that replaced actual values and actual research.
“I think the problem is that we stopped allowing personal responsibility,…”
No, we stopped *insisting* on personal responsibility…
@Geoff PR
Came here to say exact that. Good on you.
Requiring everyone to have a gun safe is an onerous intrusion into people’s lives. They are a great “do something” and “feel good” idea . . . until those few extra seconds or minutes you need to get to the safe, open it, and reach your weapon may be the difference between life and death if you are attacked. If I had children I might give more thought to obtaining a gun-safe but that would mean I was taking my chances on not needing a gun immediately in an emergency. Granted a gun-safe is one of life’s trade-offs but for most people its practical value is quite a bit less than its symbolic value. And that’s a problem.
I have 11 guns and keep all but my carry weapon in a safe. You are goi g to have to be responsible if your home is burglarized and some scumbag makes off with all your firearms. This is simple common sense. Are you also one of those irresponsible gun owners who thinks it’s okay to leave a pistol in the glove box in your car? This goes WAY beyond keeping guns out of the hands of children. Look at the FBI statistics for home burglaries. It’s not like they are uncommon.
It is also how must criminals get their guns is through theft (or they are buying it from someone who stole it).
No, I don’t like the government mandating crap, but let’s face it, most accidental discharges that killed a child are because that kid got access to a gun that should have been locked up. Most firearms that are stolen are stolen out of a car or out of a home where they weren’t locked up. The minority that are stolen are stolen out of gun safes/residential security containers.
If you can afford a gun, you can pretty much afford a lockable storage container. A basic steel lockable cabinet to store 5-6 long guns is going to cost you about $80. That isn’t even an expensive range trip. That’ll also stop young kids, a basic snatch and grab and mildly determined teenagers (or at least certainly obvious hearing them breaking in to it).
Requiring by law that firearms are locked up unless they are under your control isn’t some particularly draconian fascist crap. It is enforcing something that should be, but I don’t think really is common sense. Even if you don’t have kids in your home, again, most guns used in crime were stolen and most are stolen in snatch and grabs, not from someone who cut or ripped open a gun safe.
For all those saying “well me and mine have never hurt no one and all my relatives and kids and me have grown up since we were young enough to still be on the teet with guns” great for you. At least a few school shooters have as well. My kids have been learning to safely handle guns since a young age and shoot them not much older. They can have the combo to my gun safe when they don’t live under my roof anymore. When they are old enough to own something, they can ask for me to get it out for them.
I am completely against some kind of law that allows inspections of storage or the BS some countries have. I am fine if the law mandates safe storage by requiring you to show if your firearm is stolen and used in a crime that it was stolen by someone breaking in to a security container that had some kind of industry rating for security. Can’t do that, then you are legally responsible criminally and civilly.
Have two fire rated, drill resistant hard plate gun safes, plus two other pistol safes. Guns being used/carried at the moment are obviously not in them, but all others are secured. At any given time, at least two are on my person or instantly available; just my wife and I. In the extremely rare event a weapon is needed to be left in a vehicle, a TSA approved steel lock box with tether. Inoperative (and can not be made operative) firearms in plain sight with inert ammo in them in house in case of a break in for the smash and grabbers. Hope it is good enough so I do not loose anything to a worthless criminal.
Your children may not be morons, but how about their friends? Most children are morons. Most of them don’t deserve trust. You may be a good parent, but you can’t raise them all.
But try this: spy on your kids’ internet usage, then get back to us about how trustworthy they are. What you find will make you crap your pants.
I’ve been to many fires in type 2, unless you have sprinklers in your apartment and not just the common areas, you still can have room and contents fires.
My last rescue was in one just like that .
Deters the average thief…better if you have a dog and/or alarm…
at least they don’t walk in and walk out with your stuff in seconds rather than minutes…
but your choice…maybe you have a “gun room”…
your domicile IS a locked container when it is closed up and locked…as is your vehicle…regardless of what a state or other entity might say to the contrary
None of those are “ safes “ they are residential security containers. They are rated to hold up for five minutes under an attack with hand tools . That may or may not work for you , but one should know going in just what you’re beening sold .
Yes, safe storage of guns is paramount. Many criminal uses of firearms result from unauthorized use of improperly stored guns.
I have a relative who once had a favorite rifle stolen in a home burglary. To my consternation, he _still_ keeps unlocked firearms in his unlocked house. I would be terrified of coming home and finding some home invader pointing one of my own rifles at me.
I’d like to see NRA make a major push on this advice. We care more about firearm safety than just about anybody, and we need to get on the right side of this issue by heavily promoting safe storage.
That ” advice” may quickly turn into a government mandate. This would make it very challenging to own firearms if you are poor, or live in an apartment. It would also greatly restrict our ability to use a firearms in self-defense. ( That which is locked away can not be easily locked and loaded)
I oppose a govt mandate on safe storage. It’s up to us.
For self-defense, I’ve got my mousegun on my _body_ at all times, except in shower.
For home defense, while home, I have a carbine handy, out of storage. When I leave the house, the carbine goes into storage.
I try never to be complacent about safety. I like to think I know my way around rifles and handguns, but I don’t let that pride allow me to think I’m safe enough. I can always learn to shoot better, and I can always learn to be safer.
sounds pretty reasonable…
maybe houses should come equipped with safes for valuables (not just guns)…locking medicine cabinets…locking cabinets in garage and laundry
would prevent so many poisonings and ODs…
“That advice may quickly turn into a government mandate. . .”
It already is in Australia. There the cops have the right to enter your home to verify that your registered guns are properly stored in their gun safe.
No, they do not have the right. The law and their gestapo procedures may allow it but that’s not the same.
See, this is why I don’t have kids.
If your kid is so dangerous that you need to keep all firearms under lock and key, then you have a much bigger problem than storage.
I also do not think safes were designed to keep out someone who has years to figure out the combination. I was able to figure out how to break combination locks at age four. A locked item is an exciting challenge to some kids.
“If your kid is so dangerous” That’s the thing. We tend to underestimate how dangerous kids are, especially in groups of 2-4. We trust kids too much, and our justice system is too lenient on them.
Kids have no experience, little knowledge, undeveloped brains, hysterical emotions, too much stimulation, and are fed a great deal of pernicious nonsense by their friends, the schools and the media.
All of you who are good parents, bless you, and I understand why you trust your kids. But I don’t trust them. So please store your firearms safely.
It seems like the age of responsibility keeps ticking up by the century. What’s to say 21 year olds are responsible? What about the parents for that matter? John Locke said that it is the parents duty to teach reason and law to their child. How many adults can boast understanding in these areas now?
Trouts, good for you I guess. The combo lock on my safe has options from 01-99 and you can also have 3 different options on how many passes of the dial to get to each number.
That is 27 million possible combinations. I am going to guess that is going to take a 4 year old a little while. About 11 months if you can enter the entire sequence in 1 second. Since I can’t powering through it, maybe 20-30 years?
I teach my kids a lot of responsibility, but that doesn’t mean one of their stupid friends couldn’t come across something not locked up. Even trusting my kids, I do NOT trust them implicitly with my life every second and also trust that my placed trust will never change. It would suck awfully much if either I find the trust misplaced, or find that I suddenly don’t trust them and need to try to change things.
A real basic gun locker is dirt cheap and even for a poor person, $30 for a locked handgun box is a lot cheaper than the $200 used Taurus that they bought or $60 for a gun locker to stash a cheap used shotgun in. And most gun owners aren’t real poor and that $30 or $60 or even 80 or 100 or even $600 for a basic real “safe” isn’t any real hardship. And if everyone followed it, it probably would be hundreds less accidental deaths and suicides as well as a hell of a lot less stolen guns.
This secure-storage notion troubles me. I can see the argument on the one hand; yet, I can’t square it with my personal experience.
To some extent, school shooters obtained their guns from “family” gun-stocks. In these cases, some might have had difficulty tapping into the black market. From childhood through adulthood I’ve always known how to buy a gun legitimately; but, it would have taken ME some considerable effort to tap into the black-market. For an inner-city youth, the proposition would be reversed.
Let’s imagine we gun-owners adopted a “best practice” of keeping guns locked-up; except, of course, while carrying, range-shooting, hunting, etc. I can see how it would be that young children, even middle-school children, would be successfully deterred by relatively simple, inexpensive, cabinets and locks.
But what about high school kids? By the time I was in high school no lock my father would have used to secure the family guns would have prevented me from accessing them had I been determined to do so. The school shootings we contemplate speak of determined youths who would not have been deterred from breaking into safes, cabinets or locked closets.
In many of these areas it’s commonplace for teenagers to plink, target shoot or hunt unsupervised. Typically, they keep their own guns in personal closets; sometimes they take a family gun out of their parents’ armory. OK, lock them up. So, now, the kid says: ‘Mom, I want to go plinking. Can I have the key to the gun safe?’ Mom/Dad will have habitually said sure; here it is. Perhaps handing the kid her key-ring where she keeps her car key and house key. The same key-ring the 16 year-old kid uses when he drives to the grocery store. In one-in-a-million such requests, the kid’s plinking venue is at his high school.
The fact of the matter is that in “gun culture” families, a gun isn’t regarded as particularly unusual. I had my own gun under my own control and went about within and outside the city limits unsupervised at 13. My mom didn’t let me drive until I was 14. I got my driver’s permit at 15. How could such a gun-culture alter its habitual practices to any real effect on teenagers?
Yet, magical things happen. So, let’s imagine the magical new universe is created. All guns are locked-up and kept out of the hands of those under 18. How do we un-invent the Dremel? The electric drill? All cutting tools? The teenager bent on shooting up his school will not be deterred by want of adequate tooling to defeat the family gun-safe.
It really is possible to buy a safe that will resist an intense attack for 30 or 60 minutes. These are costly commercial safes. But, they are certainly not enough to stop a kid who has 6 hours to break into his parents’ safe following their departure for work and before school let’s out.
It really is possible to buy a safe that will resist a professional attack for 48 hours. I bought one 30 years ago. It cost $25,000; albeit it was too small to hold a long-gun. (I was paranoid and had a compelling application.) So, this is absurd.
Inexpensive gun safes are suitable to restrict access by children too young to use guns unsupervised. They just won’t serve that purpose when they are old enough to use guns unsupervised – authorized or not. So, I don’t get it. I really don’t understand how locking-up guns changes the risk of school shootings.
Thanks for a well stated commentary about how normal firearms are to some families. The only secured storage systems any of the households I know use, are only there to deter criminal action, while the whole household, even the kids, know how to access.
quote——————————–Inexpensive gun safes are suitable to restrict access by children too young to use guns unsupervised. They just won’t serve that purpose when they are old enough to use guns unsupervised – authorized or not.———————–quote
The average suburbanite and inner city kid today is a far different breed of cat than children of the past generations. Today the average teenager cannot even change a flat tire let alone figure out how to cut into a safe. And remember even if he did figure it out where would he get the money to buy some fairly expensive tools to cut into one if his Dads safes if his dad did not have the tools lying around. I am very handy with tools and repairs but have yet to buy a grinder powerful enough to cut into a safe and not burn itself out before the job was even half done. And no even a dremel tool (assuming he even had one )would not enable a kid to cut into a safe as the cutters are so expensive he would have to come up with some money to buy several dozen of them to even attempt to cut into a really low cost safe.
In conclusion yes the idea of mandatory safe storage is long over due and like all laws no its never 100 per cent effective but laws against rape, murder, child rape, and theft are not 100 percent successful either but that does not mean we should scrape all laws because they are not 100 per cent effective.
You can buy the tool and the wheel for half the cost of a good bag of dope. Get it even cheaper on craigslist or a pawn shop.
I assume they would do an internet search and watch a few videos. My boss thinks I’m some kind of genius handyman, but I just watch a lot of you-tube.
I’m willing to bet you would not have capable of breaking into a TL-30 rated safe when you were a teen. Also, Stainless steel plating would slow most power tooled attacks, such as a Dremel, etc.
An RSC, sure, most can be broken into with a claw hammer and small pry bar.
TL-30? Are you insane or just trying to make firearm ownership a burden?
All the school shootings have one thing in common besides guns, and yet nobody is willing to face facts.
Every school murder was committed by a student psychopath created by the school system. The guns were just along for the ride.
Sooner or later, the little bastards will develop their bomb-making skills, and then the casualties will grow exponentially.
Not particularly worried about my 20something sons going on a rampage or residential burglary. When I’m away my meager gun collection is secure. It IS troubling so many of the recent punkazz shooters stole them from daddy(or WORSE daddy or “guardians” just gave him back his gat). Waffle House dad should get a prison term….
As a locksmith who sells gun safes. Most are sold with the knowledge that. It main purpose is its there for is prying fingers and invited guests. If someone wants a truly bugler resistant safe. They begin in the several thousands of dollars. Even a top rated TL safe is only rated for 15 0r 30 minutes. Thats the amount of time someone with the proper knowledge and tools it should take to get into it. Properly. That’s not using force. That’s tools and knowledge.
Please don’t fool yourselves that household safes are……. well safe. They are just buying you time. The better the box. The more time your buying.
I don’t think you’re giving TL-15 and TL-30 rated safes enough credit. The lock smiths who take 15 or 30 mins to break into these UL rated safes have the blue prints of the safe internals beforehand, and have a whole host of power tools, etc., that they know they need specifically to break into a safe. They are allowed to study the plans prior to the break-in tests and develop a break-in plan. Not to mention they are professional safe-crackers – not some random thief. A random criminal, or even a somewhat sophisticated one, will not be able to break into a TL-30 safe in 30 minutes. Likely, many times longer than that. A smash and grab thief or disgruntled teen? Don’t think so.
I believe that the weight of the safe was a contributing factor in the sinking of my watercraft.
Gunsafe is one of those terms like assault weapon, most people slip into using it inaccurately as a general term.
I have a locked steel gun cabinet that provides a reasonable but minimal layer of protection.
If you have kids, they will with time figure out the combination / location of the key. They will also figure out how to hack into your computer and know exactly what you and your spouse do in the bedroom. Kids are not stupid and they live with you for a couple of decades. They will know everything. Bring them up right and they should be trustworthy long before the time they figure these things out.
The locked gun cabinets are fine, I have one and use it. It avoids issues with the kids friends doing stupid things and a casaul theif looking for a quick score. It is one layer of what should be a multi layer defense system. Mine includes an alarm, cameras, dogs, nosy neigbors with my cell, etc…..
Because making your firearms inaccessible to your teenagers is far more important than enabling them to defend themselves when you aren’t home…
https://nypost.com/2000/08/25/madman-slays-2-kids-with-a-pitchfork-three-siblings-flee-from-calif-psycho/
Man, you sure know how to guide a guilt trip. Toddler Grandchild here, another on the way, and I would need to sell the few weapons I have to come close to affording an “inexpensive” gun safe.
Depends on how much your willing to spend! Try a Refurbished Coke Machine Half and Half. Half Gun Safe and Half Functioning Coke Machine. Hide it in Plain Sight and make Money at the same time.
Awesome idea. Thanks.
Why should we have to buy a safe rated for guns, when a locking file cabinet or other type of locking cabinet will do the same? Why should I be forced by law to buy a special place to keep guns locked up, when a mechanic’s tool chest does the same job?
You can bolt said chest to the floor(if you want to).
No, it doesn’t protect firearms from fire or water damage, but does stop the honest or slow down the crooked, from access to your firearms. If someone wants them, they will find a way and ruin your expensive safe.
Yes, I believe that firearms should not just be all over to house ready to be stolen, but how you keep them is up to you and a locked box that is too bulky for one person to carry out should be good enough.
“Ready to be stolen” = serious blaming the victim, you’re part of the problem if you ever seriously think that.
Safe storage practices should be encouraged.
Safe storage practices should never be allowed to become government mandated.
Three guns unlocked, a BB Gun, my side arm pistol, and my 22LR rifle. I have a Kid, (kid) knows not to mess with the 22, and it goes boom, and can kill squirrel. Friends come over i put it up, and im watchful.
But bad people will do bad things. Likely if they dont get a firearm they will use knives, machete, axe, a ball bat, or like some terrorists have done take a vehicle and drive it into a crowd.
A safe is intended to keep outsiders out. If i felt my kid, or wife would use a firearm wrongly i would only have one, my old two shot pistol.
It is amazing how the gun community sends out mixed messages. The author says ” Correct usage is also to not allow anyone else access, except perhaps a spouse. All guns go in the safe unless they’re under your control, and that’s it.”
Yet when a 14 or 16 year old kid home alone defends themselves or a little brother/sister with Dad or Moms gun we heap praise on them. We hold them up as evidence of the purpose of the 2A self defense.
So I am guessing the author would just rather have the 16 yr old girl get raped or murdered ?
Slowly but surely the gun community is buying into all the anti-gunners doctrine.
You might as well announce it on the 6 o’clock News that you have a Gun Safe. The old adage that “Dead men don’t tell secrets”, is a valid one. Just telling your family is a HUGE risk of unforeseen problems that can and will bite you on your a$$.
Store the bolts out of the firearms. Put each in a marked bag and store in a SMALL safe bolted to the floor. 1/5 the cost. Criminals and nuts do not carry extra parts.
That’s another compromise solution. The smaller the safe the less expensive it will be. The easier it will be to conceal in an inconspicuous place. Indeed, one could simply hid the bolts in the ceiling of a basement; no safe required at all.
The question arises under your idea is whether a burglar will be inclined to steal a gun without a bolt. It’s value for resale is substantially compromised because the fence needs to find the right bolt, buy it, have it shipped to him, install it. Is a burglar willing to risk being caught with a stolen gun when he has to sell it at a substantial discount?
I have a good size safe that hold a dozen rifles along with several shelves. I keep more than firearms inside. Coin collection, medication, valuable paperwork. I wanted this stuff protected from smash and grab home robberies. We live a ways out of town so if someone wants my stuff they are going to have to bust a nut getting it open. One more thing you never know how your kids are going to turn out. One of mine turned to drugs and would steal from me in a second.
Same Storage laws seem to come in two flavors:
1. If you don’t secure your weapons AND your kid gets into them and does something stupid with them, a prosecutor and a jury can decide if you should be held responsible
2. if you don’t secure your weapons, you have committed a crime.
I support the former, not the latter
Thinking that two steps would end the risk of guns taken from parents by children:
– Ban future production of children
– Announce to family and friends that you have guns in the house, and you have no intention of making your home/apartment “child-proof”.
Wouldn’t it be cheaper and more effective to leave the guns out and lock up the kids?
“Wouldn’t it be cheaper and more effective to leave the guns out and lock up the kids?”
There goes that “logic thing”, again.
Yeah, so logical. /sarcasm
Observing youngsters over the last two decades, the “lock ’em up” method for securing guns from children.
The logic is good; the logistics might be a challenge.
I’m all for the shooters getting the needle and the schools becoming hard targets…
Civilized Nations for decades have required the mandatory use of safes. When you do not comply you lose your right to own a firearm because you are an irresponsible moron who is a danger to children because of accidental shootings and all of society by allowing criminals to just walk in and walk off with deadly weapons that go onto the black market.
Many of the school shooting would never have happened as well.
In Japan in order to get a firearms card you need to store your guns in a safe which is approved by the government as being of proper quality. You will be subject to surprise inspections and if you have not complied you lose your gun collection and all rights to own future firearms. THIS IS HOW CIVILIZED COUNTIES PREVENT NEEDLESS CHILD FATALITIES, CRIPPLING’S AND WHOLESALE THEFT OF GUN COLLECTIONS.
In Germany you are required to have a safe to store your guns in. Other European countries have their own variations of safe storage which vary from country to country as would be expected but the important thing to remember is that ONLY THE HILL JACK U.S. DOES NOT GIVE A FK THAT 1,300 U.S. KIDS GET KILLED A YEAR AS WELL AS MANY MORE THAT GET CRIPPLED FOR LIFE NOT TO MENTION THE THOUSANDS OF GUNS THAT GET STOLEN AND GO ON TO THE BLACK MARKET. All because we have not mandatory safe storage laws.
NOW WHAT PART OF THIS DO YOU IGNORANT HILLBILLIES NOT UNDERSTAND.
And before you ignorant Out House Denizens start screaming no law is 100 per cent effective neither are laws against murder or child rape either but that does not mean we should not have laws against this sort of thing as well as laws against Morons not safely storing guns.
If your home is locked and alarmed is that not a safe storage location?
Please list the ‘uncivilized countries’ for my edification?
That statement about your home being locked and alarmed is exactly my point. I agree completely. Those kids that we herald as good guys with a gun are also likely to have access to the guns, lock box or not because up till the one in a million does something stupid, they are trusted and often taught how to access things in an emergency.
If you are so concerned about the contents of my home to want me to have inner walls with locks, inside my outer walls with locks, then we are not talking gun safety anymore and really saying that no home is built safe enough for any of the contents. If we want to up building codes to make my entire house, it’s contents, and my family more secure, then I am more likely to listen. Otherwise it just sounds like someone that is wanting to do anything to interfere with law abiding citizens because they have an agenda. Make ownership burdenensome enough and it will discourage people from doing something you disagree with. Less people attempting to get into it because of barriers and hoops, and you win by attrition.
Last I checked we don’t push for breathalyzer key boxes installed in homes or installed in vehicles to ensure that standard typically lawful citizens aren’t driving while intoxicated. People still make those bad choices and lives are lost, families ruined.
I also never saw legislation for a medication dispenser in your home or car that prevents people from driving when taking the thousands of OTC or prescription medication that tell you not to drive or operate machinery. People still make those bad choices and lives are lost, families ruined.
Again, I see a culture war and nothing more.
Oh, look, everybody. The name calling 13yo is back.
Fucking retard.
From your last sentence, how are you any different?
Every comment this guy makes is designed to prove he’s an asshole of great proportions. Why does it surprise you that someone would use his own style against him?
Am I supposed to turn the other cheeks while he happily denigrates all of us?
Isn’t that the fault of the Moderator of the Forum! He’s or she’s the one suppose to be the enforcing policy.
By all means. Contact the moderators and have his comments reviewed.
Good luck, new name.
I haven’t been on One Website where the “Moderator” didn’t favor one person/party over another person/party.
@GUN FREE SCHOOL ZONES ARE A CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY
I agree that the only reason he is here is to cause trouble and gain attention
he obviously isn’t here for useful and productive debate, so lets just ignore him.
no censorship needed he’s just like an annoying pop up, dismiss and move on.
don’t let him dominate the thread, continue the same line of conversation that was taking place before his comment.
I totally agree that his intentions are self seeking and counter productive.
In the civilized country of Japan you have to be Japanese. No immigration. Pretty much a closed culture. They don’t really have any significant minorities to deal with. Are you advocating that also? Oh and us ignorant hillbillies understand things like punctuation, capitalization and syntax and sentence structure. Maybe you should just put your keyboard away, observe, shut up,and try to learn something, kid.
To Huntfailure
Quote——————————————-In the civilized country of Japan you have to be Japanese. No immigration. Pretty much a closed culture. They don’t really have any significant minorities to deal with. Are you advocating that also? .————————————–quote
I love responding to the “unwashed” I do not need to make a fool of you as you shout to the world that you are an uneducated out house denizen.
Japan has had minorities for centuries as well as people considered “untouchables” much as it is in India its just that they are labled differently.
As far as your ignorant statement that Japan has no minorities and am I advocating it? Yes I am indeed advocating it but that is besides the point because the Japanese Government is now advocating it as they are suffering from a lack of workers and now have a program in place to “import” minorities including Americans that cannot find jobs and they have no trouble filling such vacancies as their low crime rate (civilized gun control) their social programs, their 6 weeks vacation the day you start work, their prescritpiton drug programs, their affordable education , their safe roads and bridges are just a few of the superiorities their country has over the hill jack U.S. of Captialvania.
Its interesting to note that when the big Tsunami hit a few years ago they put up temporary bridges in only one day. It too the American Hill Jack’s several months to put up a bridge that fell down in my area and another 2 years to replace it all the while raping the tax payers to do the work and all of sub standard quality as well. Love that rip off Capitalvanian country I live in. It just makes you want to shit all over everything including their bridge. sub standard trash bridge.
And lets remember that Japan had an unusual natural catastrophic that destroyed their bridges and roads while we had no such excuses. We on the other hand just let our roads deteriorate and our bridges fall down and kill people.
If you were not so ignorant you might care to watch foreign news programs like NHK News as the plan was broadcast only last week to the world so that more and more foreigners that need jobs would be aware of the program.
Now Jethro don’t you wish you would have researched this before making a complete fool of yourself.
Hey Troll, where did I make the following statement and question” Japan has no minorities and am I advocating it”? I didn’t. You’re just a bunch of blather. It’s called throwing a bunch of @*# against a wall and hoping something sticks. You do know that we are on to you, don’t you? Again, Japan has no statistically significant minorities…
Hey, Troll, “Japanese society is 98.5% Ethnic Japanese.” – CIA Library, “The World Factbook.”
to Hunt Failure
Quote—————————Hey Troll, where did I make the following statement and question” Japan has no minorities and am I advocating it”?———————–quote
Go back and read your own post. I think you really are on drugs.
to Hunt failure
Quote——————————– They don’t really have any significant minorities to deal with. Are you advocating that also?———————————-quote————————
Damn straight I am advocating it as I am not a racist Nazi like you are. Historically in all countries not just the U.S. they have always been an asset to a country. This Nation was built by immigrants the very people you hate. Tell me when is your next candlelight parade like the one you marched in at North Carolina. Surely you too like your leader Herr Drumpf consider the U.S. Nazi’s “nice people”. Christ give us all a break and go somewhere else.
@Cisco Kid
These United States created laws by which to legally cross our borders, and those that you refer to as “immigrants” have broken those laws as their first act in these United States.
Breaking the law is a crime in this country,
those that break it are criminals
Is anyone going to point out how this is the second instance of this comment section where he openly admitted to wanting an ethnic cleansing of the US?
He also doesn’t seem to grasp that that is what he is admitting
“When you do not comply you lose your right to own a firearm”
If that is the case, one never had the right to own a firearm in the first place. I do enjoy how you talk about country’s that don’t have a constitution like the USA has.
And by-the-way, if a kid wanted to cut open dads safe, the cost a angle grinder plus a metal cutting blade is less then $50 at Home-depot. It is not as expensive as you think.
to ACP Unarmed with brains
quote—————————————–“When you do not comply you lose your right to own a firearm”
If that is the case, one never had the right to own a firearm in the first place. I do enjoy how you talk about country’s that don’t have a constitution like the USA has.
And by-the-way, if a kid wanted to cut open dads safe, the cost a angle grinder plus a metal cutting blade is less then $50 at Home-depot. It is not as expensive as you think.——————————————quote
As I have said before just because a law cannot be 100 per cent effective is no reason to repeal laws against murder and rape either. And Genius boy you deliberately failed to mention the 1,300 young children that get killed each year from guns that are not locked up.
As a matter of fact the average teenager has never even heard of an angle grinder let alone know what one is used for or how to use one.
Try again Genius your only making a fool of yourself.
“As I have said before just because a law cannot be 100 per cent effective is no reason to repeal laws against murder and rape either.”
The thing that keeps flying over your head about what I’m saying is if it was the law that people had to lock up their guns what are you going to offer in response to someone breaking open a safe? If the guns were locked up but still stolen, would I still be charged with proving a gun(s) to a killer?
And by the way, laws don’t stop things from happening, laws just give a means to punish someone for the act.
“And Genius boy you deliberately failed to mention the 1,300 young children that get killed each year from guns that are not locked up.”
And how many of those 1,300 children are gang members involved in criminal activity?
“As a matter of fact the average teenager has never even heard of an angle grinder let alone know what one is used for or how to use one.”
There’s this thing called YouTube that will show you how to open a safe and other things with a video, you should try it.
Try again Genius your only making a fool of yourself.
You said it, not me.
To ACP unarmed with brains
Quote———————————————“As I have said before just because a law cannot be 100 per cent effective is no reason to repeal laws against murder and rape either.”
quote————————————–The thing that keeps flying over your head about what I’m saying is if it was the law that people had to lock up their guns what are you going to offer in response to someone breaking open a safe? If the guns were locked up but still stolen, would I still be charged with proving a gun(s) to a killer?————————quote
Don’t dodge my original statement i.e. the law is long overdue as too many people do indeed leave guns lying around for kids to steal or pick up and accidentally shoot another kid or go to a school and commit mass murder.
quote——————————-And by the way, laws don’t stop things from happening, laws just give a means to punish someone for the act.—————————-quote
None of your fact dodging should mean we should not have a safe storage law that all other civilized countries have had for decades and their lower accident rate proves it beyond all doubt.
“And Genius boy you deliberately failed to mention the 1,300 young children that get killed each year from guns that are not locked up.”
quote—————————–And how many of those 1,300 children are gang members involved in criminal activity?———————————quote
And your a racist Nazi pig, the scum of humanity. You make wild statements that all kids who get accidentally killed are gang members who deserved to be killed. What a warped racist sick mind you have. Its Nazi’s like you that are everything that is wrong about America.
“As a matter of fact the average teenager has never even heard of an angle grinder let alone know what one is used for or how to use one.”
quote——————————-There’s this thing called YouTube that will show you how to open a safe and other things with a video, you should try it.————————–quote
Your making a fool out of yourself once again. The kids these days have never even heard of an angle grinder and so would not be searching for one the internet. And little children who are often the ones accidentally shot could not even hold up the weight of one nor would any of them have the money to buy one or to get to a store to buy one. The last time I checked underage kids do not even know how to drive. Now try and lie your way out of this one.
Try again Genius your making a fool of yourself.
You said it, not me.
#1
Did I say there should not be any laws? No! For a safe storage law to work you have to know where the guns are. A registry would be one way but given how few people registered their “assault weapons” in Connecticut I don’t think it would work out as well as you’d like. The police could go door to door, but that would cost a lot of money to pay for all that overtime, something people wouldn’t care for given the police would be occupied going door to door and not out patrolling the streets for criminals.
#2
Where did I dodge any facts in that statement I made?
#3
I make wild statements?!?! Pot, meet kettle.
At no point did I bring up race, you did. A gang member can be white, black, brown, and I never said “all”, you did. Given you didn’t provide a source it leaves the the statement you made nothing more than that, a statement.
#4
They would if they found out they would need one to open dads safe.
#5
I swear I’m not lying, I don’t know where that stat you keep talking about is from.
“Try again Genius your making a fool of yourself.
You said it, not me.”
Sorry you’re too late for the party. I served it first.
I like how the old version of me holds up 2 (of 2) examples of countries as beacons of civilisation who both actively committed genocide within the last 75 years.
To fake moniker
quote———————————-I like how the old version of me holds up 2 (of 2) examples of countries as beacons of civilisation who both actively committed genocide within the last 75 years.————————————–quote
Its too easy making a fool of you as you make a fool of yourself. How about the U.S. when it invaded China in 1896 and murdered 1 1/3 million Chinese. Or how about before that war even ended the U.S. invading the Philippine Islands and murdering 3 million civilians so U.S. Businessmen could rape the country for 75 years and ditto for another 3 million civilians murdered in Vietnam also by U.S. Storm Troopers.
Yes tell me about genocide dear “unwashed one” as when you point your unwashed finger at other nations you have 3 unwashed fingers pointed right back at yourself.
As I recall, that was the Boxer Rebellion of 1896! Twelve Nations including the United States and the Chinese “Qing” members were involved in a 55 day siege. In total ~34,200 were killed! Of those ~34,200 Killed, were ~32,000 Chinese Christians and ~200 Christian Missionaries ALL killed by the Chinese in the Rebellion.
Sich
Quote——————–As I recall, that was the Boxer Rebellion of 1896! Twelve Nations including the United States and the Chinese “Qing” members were involved in a 55 day siege. In total ~34,200 were killed! Of those ~34,200 Killed, were ~32,000 Chinese Christians and ~200 Christian Missionaries ALL killed by the Chinese in the Rebellion.——————————-quote
I suggest you do a little more research on the invasion of China by the foreign powers as there was indeed 1 1/2 million Chinese killed by the foreign powers including the U.S.
I suspect that then your referring to the First Sino-Japanese War of 1894 to 1896. Approximately 350,000 Chinese died in Combat, while and the 800,000 Chinese died of Starvation. Because the food was given to those Chinese fighting the war. The “Qing” Dynasty was extremely brutal amongst their own people. Even the Japanese of the Late 19th Century were sickened by the Random Brutality of the Qing Dynasty. But then again Mao Zedong (the Pedophile) was Brutal on his People too. He killed nearly 65-Million of his people taking power of China.
Hey Troll, “Japanese society is 98.5% Ethnic Japanese.” CIA Library, “The World Factbook.
A government approved safe of approved quality?? HAHAHHA. Kind of like the piece of junk safes that California says are reasonable gun storage devices? CA approved? HA! Many of those that CA lists as approved gun storage devices can be broken into with a paperclip. Heck – I’ve seen some broken into with a drinking straw.
To Flaming Nut Case
Quote—————————-A government approved safe of approved quality?? HAHAHHA. Kind of like the piece of junk safes that California says are reasonable gun storage devices? CA approved? HA! Many of those that CA lists as approved gun storage devices can be broken into with a paperclip. Heck – I’ve seen some broken into with a drinking straw.————————————quote
Still trying to lie your way out of the real truth and that is that the many of the kids killed are little children and no they do not break into safes with straws. Really have you been hitting the booze or drugs harder today than you normally do. Or perhaps your supply of Prozac has run out.
No, not at all lying about anything. I believe gun owners should safely lock up their firearms, as I do, unless they are carrying it on their hip (as I am right now). But regarding a “government approved safe” – my point is the gov’t approves safes that are so poorly conceived and built that some gov’t “approved” safes can be broken into very easily by anyone with access to Youtube. I don’t trust gov’t approved. I trust my research and I know what makes a quality safe (hint – big box store safes are not “quality” safes and can be fairly easily defeated). B-rated burglary construction, at minimum, or bust (except for Sturdy Safe – they make formidable safes with great bolt work). B-rated safes have 1/2″ thick solid steel doors, UL listed locks, and contain much higher quality bolt work than most gun safes and RSCs.
Keeping your gun locked up isn’t gonna save you from meeting Jesus. You need to be on point and ready to defend against a threat. I do think safes are a good slow down for getting something in the wrong hands of a monster. I remember a day when you heard of an occasional suicide committed at a public school, but never a massacre. But that was when God was welcome and didn’t offend all the people with issues on it. Maybe we can see a day when we welcome him back and he will protect us again. More safes will create some good manufacturing jobs. But won’t stop crazy from attempting to kill you. It’s just common sense, one thing for sure we all are going to meet the maker. Preserve your existence for the future of your family and yourself and keep a nice piece on your side, then cowards won’t try to kill defenseless innocent people. It’s just common sense it’s your rite in the constitution.
I’m starting to wonder if it might be more prudent and effective to put the KIDS in the safe and leave the guns out in the open.
I keep all of my guns, loaded or empty, locked in gun safes 100% of the time – except of course when I am carrying at home or elsewhere. The my only unlocked gun is the one I am carrying.
I am amazed every time I read another story about some little kid who shot himself or someone else – all because the irresponsible adult kept their loaded gun at home unlocked. How irresponsible. Perhaps they should be prosecuted for their irresponsibility, and perhaps some of them are, or have been.
If you are a responsible firearms owner, then you are responsible for anything that is done with your firearms. If you allow them to be accessed by other and they are used in a crime, you are an accomplice to that crime. If they are stolen and you don’t report that, then you are still responsible. (Side note, I don’t know why someone would not report a firearm stolen when that person would most likely be the last person that firearm could be tracked to.) I live alone and don’t have kids in the home. My firearms are locked in “residential security container” (which is what most “gun safes” are) unless I’m carrying them, working/cleaning them, or they are packed up for a range trip.
We need to set the standard for ourselves.
You pose an interesting standard. Question: would you impose the same standard for any other item stolen and used in a crime? For instance, a nine-pound mallet used to crush the skull of someone in an alley? Or a car stolen out of a garage, and used in a robbery? Or maybe a steak knife stolen along with the family silverware? Or stolen jewelry that is the centerpiece in an attempt to fence the items, but the thief was murdered by another thief?
Sam,
I’m not going to get into absurd arguments. In the case of items that kill and can easily kill, the answer is yes, IF the theft is never reported. My main point is that as firearm owners, we are responsible for our firearms. IF your firearm is stolen or “lost” and it is never reported, then the “owner” should still be held accountable. I’ve just seen too many people on the internet say that they wouldn’t report a stolen firearm because they “don’t want the government to know that they had a firearm” or if they sold it and the police ever come to them because it was used in a crime/found at a crime scene they are just going to say they “lost” it.
We need to be responsible for our actions.
So, IF you make the original purchaser responsible:
They may check their firearm collection/storage to make sure nothing is missing.
They may think about going through a FFL when selling a firearm to a stranger or at least have a record of the sale because.
IF the last person known to own the firearm is responsible for it.
It’s just an idea I’m thowing out there.
A stolen 9 pound mallet, a car, and a steak knife are not “things that can kill”?
Where is the right of government (or citizens) to demand that items stolen from people must be reported? Also, not quite sure there is a qualitative difference between a item reported stolen, and one not, being subsequently used in a crime. Or is it just “guns”, because “guns”?
Also not sure where the idea that individuals have the responsibility to deter crime comes from. While it is interesting to posit that victims of theft become accomplices in crime, where is the line? How much security is sufficient? Or does you thinking turn on the idea that only when stolen items are not reported the victim of theft is somehow liable? Which circles back to where private citizens have an obligation to make it hard for thieves. I have looked at laws regarding theft, burglary and robbery. Not finding any caveat making those crimes less criminal if the victim fails to take measures to prevent the crimes, or to timely report the crimes. (yes, there are some states that make it mandatory to report stolen guns).
I guess we better start locking up our steak knives.
” The Sandy Hook shooter had access to his mother’s gun safe,”
Are you freaking kidding me? That kid TORTURED AND THEN KILLED HIS MOTHER when he got the combination to the safe.
The author is an idiot.
Maybe they should figure out why kids want to kill each other and do something about it. . That would go a long way. Start charging the parents of the shooter with the crime their kid committed.
I’m glad you talked about the importance of having a gun secured! The other day, my cousin said she wants to buy a firearm and keep it at home. My cousin wants to protect her family from armed robberies, so I’ll be sure to suggest she invest in a quality gun safe! I appreciate your intake on gun safes and how they’re a must for any gun owner!
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