Possibly in anticipation of what Hawaii politicians consider think will be an adverse Supreme Court ruling that will require the state to actually issue carry permits to civilians, the state’s Democrats have proposed their latest piece of anti-gun legislation that’s aimed at making life for lawful gun owners as difficult and expensive as possible.
SB-2800 would would cut carry permit terms to only six months. Each new permit application would require 22 hours of training, including two hours of live fire drills. And if the bill becomes law, Hawaiians with government permission slips will also be required to strap on a TASER when carrying their firearm.
As the bill states . . .
…The legislature believes it is prudent for anyone carrying a firearm to also carry a non—lethal electric gun, also known as a taser, to ensure a non—lethal option to minimize the risk of unintended injuries or fatalities in difficult situations.
The purpose of this Act is to ensure public safety by improving the training of individuals who are licensed to carry handguns by:
(1) Requiring all individuals to undergo additional training before applying for or renewing a license to carry a handgun;
(2) Requiring any individual applying for or renewing a license to carry a handgun to undergo the same review as an individual applying for or renewing a license to carry a handgun;
(3) Reducing the term of a license to carry a handgun from one year to six months to ensure those permitted are properly trained at all times; and
(4) Requiring non—lethal electric guns, also known as tasers, to be carried when carrying a firearm.
This is clearly a punitive measure designed to discourage as many Hawaii residents as possible from exercising their Second Amendment Rights.
How bad are things in the Aloha State now? Hawaii may technically be a “may issue” state, but in practical terms, they’re a no-issue state.
The attorney general issues an annual report listing the number of firearm and carry permits that have been approved or denied. It looks like each report just reprints the last paragraph from the previous year. The 2018, 2019, and 2020 all say the same thing when it comes to carry permits issues: “all…applicants were denied by the respective county’s police chief.”
I asked Andrew Roberts, Director of the Hawaii Firearms Coalition, why would anyone propose a bill like this when Hawaii never approves carry permits anyway.
“The bill is nothing but an attempt at political grandstanding. Chris Lee, the senator who introduced it, is pandering to his political extreme left base. He knows the bill won’t move forward and has no chance of passing but introduced it to show how supportive of ‘common-sense gun laws’ he is.”
The state estimates there are over two million privately owned firearms in the state, but they admit their recording keeping is something of a mess, so that’s a wild guess.
Like most parts of of the country, Hawaii has some issues that might be of concern these days. Issues that might cause reasonable citizens to want to carry a firearm on a regular basis. Issues like not having enough police officers on the job.
The union representing Maui’s police officers said, “the staffing crisis must be addressed with a sense of urgency.” Their department is currently operating with only three out of four positions filled. Honolulu’s police union said staffing issues there are “putting people’s lives in danger,” and “Your cover officer might be coming from 10 miles away.”
When seconds count . . . .
Hawaii politicians apparently have no intention of issuing carry permits unless and until they’re forced to by the Supreme Court. And even then, they’re setting themselves up for another court fight by enacting onerous restrictions on those who choose to exercise their Second Amendment rights.
Maizie trying to flex her muscles?? Keep electing unqualified people, don’t cry about it later!
We “elected” a totally incompetent president. I plan on not only complaining, but opposing touchy Joe to the greatest extent possible.
“I plan on not only complaining, but opposing touchy Joe to the greatest extent possible.”
Did you inadvertently leave out the word “legally”?
We just decided this turd was less smelly than the other turd. We do it every four years, no reason for scare quotes.
“WE” did not do shat…you might have voted for that moron in office now
BUT I SURLY DID NOT!
Whoever is in charge is VERY competent, unfortunately, and whoever is in charge is doing an outstanding job of accomplishing their goals.
Don’t make the mistake of assuming that people you disagree with are incompetent idiots.
But then we have MinorIQ, dacian the stupid, and our nameless, brainless troll. The empirical evidence suggests otherwise – they are all too stupid to insult.
Wait!? What!? Everytime I think I’ve heard the stupidest thing I ever heard the sun comes up again.
This is actually what I envision CA doing if SCOTUS rules pro-2A in NYSRPA. No way will Sacramento want to allow open carry if forced to honor our right to bear, so they’ll opt for CCW (“may issue” would be changed to “shall”) and make the limitations severe.
“…so they’ll opt for CCW (“may issue” would be changed to “shall”) and make the limitations severe.”
The real work (and the need to fund that work) will begin if a good decision drops from the SCotUS.
You and every other POTG will need to apply a legal sledgehammer to those SOBs to force compliance.
Fortunately, the Leftist Scum have been quite instructive on the ways to do just that to other civil rights, like enforcing the ADA and affirmative action.
So, it will likely take a lot of money… 🙁
Dear TTAG,
Every time I read stories about how tyranny is expanding across the country, I purchase more ammo. Sometimes, another gun.
Do I need help?
Depends. Does your bank account enter a negative balance after said purchase?
If the answer is “no,” then this is just “creative portfolio rebalancing.”
That depends. Do you have enough money to keep buying guns and ammo? If so, you’re good to go. No help needed, continue as you were.
If not, you may need help — but I’m afraid I can’t offer any, as I’m busy buying all the guns and ammo I can afford (which isn’t very much…maybe I need help).
Ing….you have enough guns…..hoard ammo!!!! It’s gonna’ be a TRE.
“If not, you may need help — but I’m afraid I can’t offer any, as I’m busy buying all the guns and ammo I can afford…”
Mr. Ing- There just may be a solution yoy can exploit, child labor, yours, to be precise. (If you can figure out a way to get other’s kids to contribute, knock yourself out, without yourself being arrested or savagely beaten by their parents. 🙂 ).
Babysitting, mowing lawns, whatever kids do these days. Tell them they’ll need to donate a percentage to build the family stockpile. Make it a civics lesson, so to speak. They will get a tangible direct benefit from their contributions, in the form of family training days at the range… 🙂
No. You’re just sane.
I pick up three to four boxes of ammunition every week, just to add to the pile. For me, it’s like buying bulk dry goods, like beans and oatmeal, or putting meat in the freezer.
You think you have a problem; I started buying .223 ammo and I don’t even have a gun for it (yet).
“and I don’t even have a gun for it (yet).”
Go used, private sale, if you can legally swing it. No paper trail of a serial number leading directly back to *you*… 🙂
Mr. PR: Thats not good advice. I mean, what if a gun purchased via private sale has been used in the commission of a crime? Actually don’t bother answering, your comment history suggests you’re not someone I want to interact with. Have a nice day.
I live my life both in Hawai’i and Texas, and I’ve never felt the slightest need to carry in Hawai’i.
I do feel it, though, every second, in Texas.
Nevertheless, the laws in Hawai’i are rigged against the Second Amendment in every way possible and this won’t change until lu’au pigs fly.
You feel that in Texas simply because of the massive fight the left is putting out for turning the state blue.
This. People are underestimating the CA invasion of TX. If the invasion reaches the point where the cities become NYC-like “tail that wags the dog”, TX as well can fall.
It’s critical to bring 2A culture to the cities before it’s too late.
“People are underestimating the CA invasion of TX. If the invasion reaches the point where the cities become NYC-like “tail that wags the dog”, ”
From what I read, all the major cities in TX are run by Dims. Doesn’t that mean Dims rule where it is important? Dims from Californication aren’t the rural-living types. So long as they control the power in the powerful cities, what else matters?
Denim Dude,
Not quite gettin’ where that feeling is coming from. Hawaii (or at least certain areas) does have an unfortunately high crime rate . . . as do certain areas of Texas. Get away from the cities, and BOTH places are quite nice. Texas does, unfortunately, have more large, blue-controlled, cities. Stay out of Honolulu in Hawaii (there are some sketchy spots in Kona and Hilo, too) and you’re good. In Texas, stay out of El Paso, Houston, Dallas/Ft. Worth, and CERTAIN areas in the “oil belt” and you’re good.
Now do Illinois, Washington, Oregon, California, NY, NJ, RI, DE, MA, MI, MO, TN, AK.
OTOH, I feel more comfortable ANYWHERE if I’m carrying. That’s a “me” problem, but I have gotten to a point in my life where I refuse to be unarmed. If I can’t carry, I don’t go there.
Lol. Lamp the Glorified Notary Public and hate filled wife beater is the answer to the question nobody asked!
Hey, nameless, brainless troll! I see you are still (pathetically and incompetently) pretending to relevance. And failing, as you always do.
Got that GED, yet, uneducated idiot??? Still haven’t figured out Balaam’s off ass, yet, have you???
You are too stupid to insult. Go micturate up a cable.
Hawaii is just an extension of California with their restrictive gun laws.Until people out there continue to vote for these progressive liberals this B.S will continue unabated until eternity freezes over.They will find a way around a Supreme Court decision against them and all the other anti gun states.These are the same politicians deciding the fate of the average citizen while they are safe and sound with 24/7 security and live in their gated communties oblivious to what the real world and criminality is like.
Why not use the citizenry’s insouciance against them? They have let the tyrants do as they please so this bill isn’t a big deal. Perhaps the tax cows can challenge it court, should only take a few decades.
SCOTUS mandating constitutional carry would be nice. A pipe dream of course, but a nice one.
not for a while. They are more likely to mandate shall issue before they mandate no permit, as the permitting process allows the state to (theoretically) weed out disqualified people from carrying.Currently there is no case challenging onerous training requirements (tat act as implicit denials), for example the proposed law here that would require more training than most police officers typically receive in a year. ON top of which, how is there really any need to receive 40 hours of class room time a year? What are they going to teach (for one) and how much is it going to cost?
“What are they going to teach (for one) and how much is it going to cost?”
They will be directed to to instill in you that gun ownership is a dangerous and really bad idea, reinforcing it with audio/video productions of the ghastly wounds murder victims get from gunshot wounds. Really vile stuff like the Sandy Hook evidence photos.
I seriously expect them to stoop that low. Probably go so far as launch training for their side to socially ostracize gun owners and/or conservatives in general. The model they have of how they ostracized cigarette smokers will be a good starting point.
They will not just lay down and accept a SCotUS decision, look how long it took to get the Black folks accepted by white society in general, it will be a multi-generational effort. We can start by using some of those tactics that might apply…
“Currently there is no case challenging onerous training requirements…”
We can use the high school driver’s ed program as a starting point, if the kids learn when they are kids what end of the gun the bullet comes out of, training will be largely unnecessary.
We can use their bloody shirt-waving Jesse Jackson against them. What are they going to say against school training? That they want dead kids because they didn’t know not to Stop! Don’t touch it! (etc) when they inevitably come across a loaded gun while playing in another kid’s house? It will literally (and I’m using the word literally correctly) save children’s lives. Actual, not pretend ‘gun safety’.
Children are taught to look both ways before they cross a street. The same logic applies to actual gun safety…
Wait wait wait, on confused. So when you life is in sudden danger you have to deploy a ness than lethal not as reliable taser first? Or is it now we get to use less than lethal taser for situation we don’t need our gun in? How is that all supposed to work other than the harassment of having to carry extra bulk in order to carry a gun?
Point well taken. If ou are not authorized to use deadly force, you shouldn’t be deploying a taser either.
I say, if forced to carry it, Taser weak side, handgun, strong side.
What will any sane person reach for first? 🙂
It is actually a good idea to carry a non lethal method of self defense as well as a gun.
When you are attacked with non lethal force, like a punch, you are not allowed to respond with deadly force.
If you are defending property (like your car) from theft, you cannot use lethal force.
You can only use your gun to respond to a deadly force attack.
So I carry pepper spray in addition to my pistol.
You do need to carry both.
You are more likely to need a non deadly means of self defense in most situations.
And PLEASE do not brandish your gun to scare off car thieves!
You will be charged with aggravated assault.
There are a lot of concealed carriers who were amazed to be charged with a felony when they scared off car thieves and the thief called the cops.
Go out there and spray them with the hot sauce.
Only shoot if you are threatened with a deadly force attack
Requirement to purchase another weapon? Very interesting.
Plot twist: taser purchase and possession is restricted to police and military.*
*don’t know if this is true, but it sounds like something they would do.
Previously this was correct. New law legalized Tasers for non-LE effective January 1, 2022.
“Plot twist: taser purchase and possession is restricted to police and military.*
*don’t know if this is true, but it sounds like something they would do.”
There was a Massachusetts case that was heard by the SCotUS a few years back that ruled a Taser was protected by the 2A, and if memory serves, was unanimously by all 9, even Kagan.
I say, if forced to carry it, Taser weak side, handgun, strong side.
What will any sane person reach for first? 🙂
Just a few comments/observations:
Until this year, Tasers and stun guns were illegal for non-law enforcement citizens, now the State wants to require citizens to carry one? Ironic….
Tasers became legal on January 1 after the bill passed earlier in 2020. Due to bureaucratic ineptitude and probable purposeful foot dragging, not a single application for an authorized dealer has yet to be approved. Imagine how long it will take these knucklehead legislators to: A) determine what the curricula of this 22 hours of required training will be; B) determine the necessary qualifications of the instructors, and; C) vette and certify the qualifications of said instructors.
And finally, police are civilians….
Yes, they should require the police and federal agents in the state to follow the same proposed rules, I bet it would go away even quicker.
I am not sure how having a taser will “prevent unintended shootings.” If it is a negligent discharge are they hoping you have the presence of mind to negligently discharge the taser instead? You already have the option to not fire your gun unless your life is threatened, and if it is and is justified, then you should have in fact fired your gun. Judging by some recent police shootings if anything you might shoot someone while intending just to use the taser if you get them mixed up.
The fascist left is violating human and civil rights? This is my shocked face.
I blame the media, Ex Chief of Police Nakamura, and the Hawaiian Democrat party for screwing 2A rights in my former Home State. The 80s was the last great time for Hawaiian gun owners. Then unholy trificata had fucked everyone in the State since the early 90s to this day. A death of a thousand cuts with every year where gun laws keep getting idiotic.
Can we FINALLY start talking about the reality that “gun control” never affects anyone but lawful, law-abiding gun owners? If I’m already an habitual criminal, are you honestly going to argue that I will be deterred or hampered by ANY “gun control” law you pass??? If so, please cite your evidence for this prima facie absurd proposition.
What you HAVE succeeded in doing, however, is weakening public respect for ANY laws. Every truly absurd law weakens respect for ALL laws. And laws work only to the extent they are generally respected. We found out, the hard way, with Prohibition, the “War on Drugs”, the “Great Society”, ObummerCare, and a thousand other objectively stupid laws that got passed. But the Leftist/fascists never learn, never retreat, never admit they were wrong, and never stop pushing for their fantasy Leftist/fascist utopia, where the “smart people” (which always includes them) tell the rest of us what to do, and we comply.
I will not comply. I’ll ignore you. I am fully cognizant of the risks involved, and I am willing to accept the consequences . . . if “they” are willing to accept the consequences of THEIR f***tardery.
Hey, Gavin Gruesome and Gropey Joe! Call you, and raise you a thousand.
the last thing a criminal wants is an armed victim.
They like gunm law restrictions.
At least, it is an innovative proposition.
Of course, it is a bit limited. What would be really useful is a group of conditions requiring each gun owner, whenever a firearm is in hand, or on the body, to have a readily available gunshot first aid kit also on their body, regardless of location of weapon, or carry condition.
Add to that a requirement that under the condition above, gun owners must have a shoulder mount for cellphone, so as to save time finding the phone in a firearm emergency (the phone to have 911 as the first entry in the list of contacts).
And, as an added safety measure, when outside of the residence, any person carrying, or holding a firearm must have a headband with rotating, flashing orange light (a beeping signal similar to backup warning devices on vehicles and equipment).
(No need to thank me for being such forward thinking; just knowing you will be so grateful for these measures, at your DGU hearing is enough.)
I’ve just got one question for the Hawaiian lawmakers.
Is Pineapple Upside Down Cake the national dessert?
possum,
ISWYDT, clever marsupial!
Although I might suggest pot brownies are more “on brand” as the state dessert.
Has the weather in Hi lead to an overabundance of nitwit demtards/pols? What is WRONG with them.
Off-topic but tangential: I wonder what NYC will try later this year.
I fully expect all kinds of tap-dancing and fancy footwork to make it onerous as hell.
I imagine a case could be made that expecting we, the people, to be even higher level trained then the police may not pass constitutional muster.
If that’s the case, that means it’s real good chance the cops will be forced to be trained at the same standards we, the people, will have to demonstrate.
Either way, I bet the ammo industry will need to build several new ammo plants to meet the incoming higher demand for gun food… 🙂
Police training is expensive and takes officers off the street for the duration of the training. Moreover, police need to be trained to do such things as dynamic entries that no civilian is likely to ever do. That is why so little training is offered, rarely more than twice a year, and for many departments, only once. Economic realities will soon get in the way of such a plan.
Wait, dacian is a state legislator in HI?
A great inconvenience to all two concealed carry permit holders in the state.
My advice is load your magazines with gloves on and carry.
Tasers are not non-lethal, they are less-lethal.
As it, pretty much most everything else is…
Even for Hawaii, this is a VERY short-sighted proposal.
If one is going to go wantonly about with a firearm for alleged defensive purposes, then, of course, having a Taser is only logical, if one’s goal is defense (hah!). Along with the Taser, some sort of baton would be appropriate, and OC spray, and a portable 2-way radio, and a well-trained defensive dog. And training, of course–for the firearm, for the Taser, for the spray, for the baton, and vital training in manly fisticuffs, martial and marital arts, and verbal judo with which to render footpads, miscreants, and hoodlums hors de combat without permanently injuring them. And never forget handcuffs. These are useful outside of the self-defense arena, of course (see marital arts training, above).
Oh, and a partner of some sort.
And a uniform. Or maybe an arm-band. Something to warn footpads, miscreants, and hoodlums of the danger that you pose to their Way of Life.
None of these measures should discomfit any person desirous of self-defense outside the home, should they? If it saves just one felon’s life. . .
John,
I get your sarcasm.
The only problem is that the real life legal issue is that a gun can only be displayed/used in response to a deadly force attack.
So a non lethal way to respond to the common situation of a punch, force trespassers off property, or to stop car theft is needed.
You are permitted to use non deadly force in all these situations.
And you should never restrain a criminal.
That opens you up to all sorts of legal peril.
News for ya. Any strike by anything above the shoulders is considered deadly force in most jurisdictions already, at least as law enforcement policy is concerned.
Don’t yell at me. Look at the AOCs, Pelosis, and Schumers of the world.
Hard to carry concealed in Hi, when you’re just wearing flip-flops and shorts
I conceal carry a gun and pepper spray here in Florida wearing a t shirt, shorts and flip flops
In Hawai’i only tourists wear shirts….
fine
now do the 14th amendment
Can anyone ID the Colorful holster that is shown in the thumbnail ?
“(4) Requiring non—lethal electric guns, also known as tasers, to be carried when carrying a firearm.”
These are not non-lethal, they are less than lethal. An electric charge can and does kill. People with heart issues or neurological issues can and have died from tasers. Even a healthy person can die.
These people writing laws do not have a clue.
While carrying non-lethal is certainly an acceptable practice which I do on occasion, it’s not a taser but rather CS Tear Gas, which I have used twice. Very effective and rather fun I might add.
Forget what you see on Youtube, tasers are nearly useless and not effective almost 90% of the time. You don’t see the taser deployments where only one (two are necessary) hits skin or none of them do because the target is agitated or has either thick or loose clothing on.
Then if the fight goes to ground, you have an additional weapon to protect.
Most agencies discourage the use of Taser unless an overwatch officer is present.
Can we just treat Hawaii like Cuba? Keep the naval base, but grant the rest of the state full independence.
China would own them by the end of the week
Chinese nationals already own a big chunk of Hawaii…
Slightly off-topic, but it’s mentioned so it’s fair game. A “cop” complaining to me about backup being ten miles away is laughable.
I spent a law enforcement career in rural Alaska. Rarely asked for backup because it was never less than fifty miles away😅
Those HI guys just better sack up or pack up.
I remember making a traffic stop on a full sized pickup in the middle of nowhere that turned out to have four Samoans in it. They all turned out to be gang members. The stop ended just fine, everyone was cordial.
I’m a big man, but each of these dudes outweighed me by a hundred pounds.
I remember thinking, if this goes sideways, I’m skipping OC, Taser, baton, hard or soft hands, and just going Glock.
The point is, a CCW isn’t for the bully, it’s for that guy who has to level the playing field. Those HI politicians and voters need to breathe some of that Pacific breeze instead of weed.
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